One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
May had a majority to get this through.
Whatever happened to that?
Just imbecility. The consensus is that, unlike Blair with his 2.8%, the Tories are going to need a lead of at least 8% to get a majority. If the new boundaries had been pushed through the risk of yet another hung Parliament would have been very much reduced.
A hung parliament will be the correct democratic outcome considering the divided nature of our nation that the Brexiteer fuckwits have brought us to.
We absolutely need a decision. Whether it is leave with a deal or revoke I am almost past caring but we cannot go on like this damaging our economy, destroying our constitution and failing to address the multiplicity of more important challenges we face year after year after year whilst 2 groups of tossers dominate our political life.
Which, the country having voted for Brexit, is a huge surprise to absolutely no one.
Are you not surprised by how bad losers remainers are? I mean, I knew they were arrogant, self important, conceited, patronising and completely full of their own sense of self worth but, jeez, to be willing to bring the house down? For this?
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
The reduction to 600 constituencies was not "pointless gesturism": it was key to Cameron's attempt at gerrymandering. Here is how it works. Purge the rolls to make Labour-leaning areas look smaller than they are, then redraw the boundaries so that said Labour-leaning areas get fewer seats. This is where the reduction to 600 is crucial because it means *every* constituency needs to be redrawn, rather than just looking at the top few and bottom few and leaving most unchanged.
Anecdote: today was the first conversation IRL in recent months where someone's said to me they're switching to Labour. I wasn't expecting it from them especially as I know they have never voted Labour in the past. They even started to try to persuade me that I should, too (I won't)
The Tories shouldn’t underestimate how appealing pure unadulterated socialism may be to some people, notwithstanding their views on Corbyn personally.
This person is not a socialist. They voted Conservative back in the early 2000s and went Lib Dem after that. I didn't get a very clear sense of what drives their voting choice.
That Bridgen interview is extraordinary. The deference he shows to Rees Moog boils down to the cringe so many Brits have when confronted with a crisp, home counties accent. The assumption that well-spoken equals smart has caused the UK so much trouble over the years and continues to do so.
That Rees Mogg thing gets worse the more you think about it.
You have bad gaffes and crank candidates in every election. In fact, it’s almost a statistical certainty.
I think the material impact is negligible unless very heavily concentrated in one party and part of a broader narrative.
Socialism presses some of the same buttons as nationalism about belonging and community.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
JRM is a fuckwit. Well, who knew?
Well he backed Brexit, so quite a few of us knew.
Did he? He had a champagne party at his house to celebrate defeating May's deal. Maybe fuckwit is far too generous.
Who is the bigger fuckwit?
JRM or the fuckwit that made JRM a cabinet minister?
Easy. One had to deal with the realities of party politics in 2019 and one is just a tosser as he demonstrated yet again today.
That Bridgen interview is extraordinary. The deference he shows to Rees Moog boils down to the cringe so many Brits have when confronted with a crisp, home counties accent. The assumption that well-spoken equals smart has caused the UK so much trouble over the years and continues to do so.
That Rees Mogg thing gets worse the more you think about it.
You have bad gaffes and crank candidates in every election. In fact, it’s almost a statistical certainty.
I think the material impact is negligible unless very heavily concentrated in one party and part of a broader narrative.
I agree, but any impact is likely to be concentrated in Kensington and nearby seats - several of which are vulnerable Conservative seats or ones (like Kensington) they were hoping to regain.
Poll tables now out and the Tories are ahead in the London suburbs on 36% to 35% for Labour and 16% for the LDs. Labour still lead in inner London on 38% to 28% for the Tories and 23% for the LDs.
The Tories also lead with white Londoners on 34% to 30% for Labour and 22% for the LDs while Labour still leads with BME Londoners on 53% to 22% for the Tories and 14% for the LDs
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
The reduction to 600 constituencies was not "pointless gesturism": it was key to Cameron's attempt at gerrymandering. Here is how it works. Purge the rolls to make Labour-leaning areas look smaller than they are, then redraw the boundaries so that said Labour-leaning areas get fewer seats. This is where the reduction to 600 is crucial because it means *every* constituency needs to be redrawn, rather than just looking at the top few and bottom few and leaving most unchanged.
Well its not worked. We have an electoral roll and boundaries the best part of 20 years out of date.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
Exactly. He didn't say anything insulting or cruel whatsoever, he gave an answer that attempted to grapple with the wider implications of the tragedy. Millions will watch that news report and see his words as a statement of the obvious.
The Boris campaign will be ruthless with Corbyn Labour, the May campaign was not and it showed.
You call it "ruthless". I call it unprincipled, dishonest, uncivilised. So I suppose we agree, really.
+1. I'd say the same if Labour had done it to a BNP spokesman. It's a pity that our climate has descended to the point that it passes almost without comment - indeed, HYUFD seems to rather admire it.
What’s so depressing about that CV is that it’s yet another MP who’s done wonk > speechwriter > journalist > wonk > SPAD.
Where are the people who’ve worked in business and industry?
Living a quiet life in France, Italy and Spain thanking god they have left the shit fest behind them. When they may have devoted their retirement to public service. Why would anybody sane go into politics now believing they can do good? Look at the 21 rebels who voted for what they believed was right and were thrown out. Look at the shit that is thrown at them by both sides. It was starting in the late 90’s before social media took off but both so-called main parties were already failing to respect their opponents to gain political advantage. It’s a sad world where individuals of any political colour are subject to threats etc when at the end of the day most just want to give something back to the society they have benefited from.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
JRM is a fuckwit. Well, who knew?
Well he backed Brexit, so quite a few of us knew.
Did he? He had a champagne party at his house to celebrate defeating May's deal. Maybe fuckwit is far too generous.
Who is the bigger fuckwit?
JRM or the fuckwit that made JRM a cabinet minister?
Easy. One had to deal with the realities of party politics in 2019 and one is just a tosser as he demonstrated yet again today.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
JRM is a fuckwit. Well, who knew?
Well he backed Brexit, so quite a few of us knew.
Did he? He had a champagne party at his house to celebrate defeating May's deal. Maybe fuckwit is far too generous.
Didn't he vote for May's deal in MV3 ?
Though the two really important questions are:
1) Who is the bigger fuckwit - Letwin or Mogg. 2) Why does the Conservative party keep investing in Etonian fuckwits ?
It is very early in the campaign and JRM is not really front-line govt. If it was the Home Secretary or Boris, then it would really persist for the whole campaign, but JRM?
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
JRM is a fuckwit. Well, who knew?
Well he backed Brexit, so quite a few of us knew.
Did he? He had a champagne party at his house to celebrate defeating May's deal. Maybe fuckwit is far too generous.
Who is the bigger fuckwit?
JRM or the fuckwit that made JRM a cabinet minister?
Easy. One had to deal with the realities of party politics in 2019 and one is just a tosser as he demonstrated yet again today.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
I was thinking this, amazed it's still in the news. A lot of people will quietly agree with Mogg and if any Tories are appalled are they going to vote lib dem or bxp instead? Of course not. Compare this with the anti Semitic candidate in Coventry who will actually lose Labour voters.
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
May had a majority to get this through.
Whatever happened to that?
Just imbecility. The consensus is that, unlike Blair with his 2.8%, the Tories are going to need a lead of at least 8% to get a majority. If the new boundaries had been pushed through the risk of yet another hung Parliament would have been very much reduced.
A hung parliament will be the correct democratic outcome considering the divided nature of our nation that the Brexiteer fuckwits have brought us to.
We absolutely need a decision. Whether it is leave with a deal or revoke I am almost past caring but we cannot go on like this damaging our economy, destroying our constitution and failing to address the multiplicity of more important challenges we face year after year after year whilst 2 groups of tossers dominate our political life.
Which, the country having voted for Brexit, is a huge surprise to absolutely no one.
Are you not surprised by how bad losers remainers are? I mean, I knew they were arrogant, self important, conceited, patronising and completely full of their own sense of self worth but, jeez, to be willing to bring the house down? For this?
All of that but at least we have some semblance of intelligence. I think it shows what monumental morons Leavers are that they should be surprised at the state they have brought our country to.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
Exactly. He didn't say anything insulting or cruel whatsoever, he gave an answer that attempted to grapple with the wider implications of the tragedy. Millions will watch that news report and see his words as a statement of the obvious.
This is desperate spin . His insinuation was people should have used their common sense and ignored advice from the fire brigade . So in effect blaming some of the victims.
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
The reduction to 600 constituencies was not "pointless gesturism": it was key to Cameron's attempt at gerrymandering. Here is how it works. Purge the rolls to make Labour-leaning areas look smaller than they are, then redraw the boundaries so that said Labour-leaning areas get fewer seats. This is where the reduction to 600 is crucial because it means *every* constituency needs to be redrawn, rather than just looking at the top few and bottom few and leaving most unchanged.
Well its not worked. We have an electoral roll and boundaries the best part of 20 years out of date.
No, and there are a number of ironies. One is it probably cost Cameron the referendum; second, it probably cost May her majority; third, it means registration drives are far more efficient so it might not work anyway now, and probably favours non-Tories, and the corollary is the electoral roll being out of date might favour the Conservatives.
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
JRM is a fuckwit. Well, who knew?
Well he backed Brexit, so quite a few of us knew.
Did he? He had a champagne party at his house to celebrate defeating May's deal. Maybe fuckwit is far too generous.
Didn't he vote for May's deal in MV3 ?
Though the two really important questions are:
1) Who is the bigger fuckwit - Letwin or Mogg. 2) Why does the Conservative party keep investing in Etonian fuckwits ?
Blimey, we are going into the really hard ones now.
1. Who cares? Both a total waste of space and oxygen.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
What is dangerous is being so beholden to officialdom that you stay in a burning building against every human instinct and your own better judgement. The state doesn't always have the answers, and there are times when this becomes tragically obvious.
It's not often I agree with you, but I agree with you.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
JRM is a fuckwit. Well, who knew?
Well he backed Brexit, so quite a few of us knew.
Did he? He had a champagne party at his house to celebrate defeating May's deal. Maybe fuckwit is far too generous.
Didn't he vote for May's deal in MV3 ?
Though the two really important questions are:
1) Who is the bigger fuckwit - Letwin or Mogg. 2) Why does the Conservative party keep investing in Etonian fuckwits ?
Politics is an equal opportunity employer for fuckwits, demonstrated by the comprehensive educated Francois and the minor private school educated Corbyn.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
Exactly. He didn't say anything insulting or cruel whatsoever, he gave an answer that attempted to grapple with the wider implications of the tragedy. Millions will watch that news report and see his words as a statement of the obvious.
This is desperate spin . His insinuation was people should have used their common sense and ignored advice from the fire brigade . So in effect blaming some of the victims.
No, you’re just making stuff up. If you watch him or read the transcription it’s obvious he was saying he would NOW (having read the report) ignore any advice to stay put and it would be silly not to. He didn’t need to apologise or clarify, doing so is the mistake.
As ever this is being turned into a “story” because the level of debate in this country is that of a seven year old. We’ll see this done to Corbyn and other Labour figures over the next five weeks and it won’t be any better then.
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
I was thinking this, amazed it's still in the news. A lot of people will quietly agree with Mogg and if any Tories are appalled are they going to vote lib dem or bxp instead? Of course not. Compare this with the anti Semitic candidate in Coventry who will actually lose Labour voters.
JRM was accused of antisemitism recently over his Soros remarks. I don't think he is antisemitic but it was amusing to watch his defenders jump through hoops to clear him of the same sort of thing they condemn Labour for.
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris
(Just for @Beibheirli_C , he is the leading light of Somerset’s Old Family - it looks like the Families are unifying behind a position at last)
My family is as old as yours is Charles. We both have bloodlines and DNA that stretch back to the beginning of life on Earth (or else we would not be here)
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris. ...
I can understand that, and have toyed with the idea of voting Conservative after all for that reason (the last thing we want is another hung-parliament mess).
But then, having finally cornered himself into getting a deal which one could live with, thus making it possible to consider voting for him, Boris then wrecks it by driving out some of the best and most level-headed senior figures in the party, and making another brain-dead promise on the length of the transition, which could once again lead to a no-deal crash out, and certainly will lead to a repeat of the psychodrama and of uncertainty damaging the economy again. In which case, a hung parliament begins to look like the lesser nightmare.
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
Under the planned timetable, most of the current Woodford via Hainault services will become a shuttle between Woodford and Hainault, calling at Grange Hill, Chigwell, and Roding Valley. The current eight car full-length trains will also become four-car shuttles. Customers that need to head into central London should change at Woodford or at Hainault. There will also be a reduction in services between Debden, Theydon Bois and Epping stations by two trains per hour, although TfL says this is to maintain the frequency of services between Woodford and Loughton.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
You say that as if you had any way of knowing it to be true. And as if you didn't realise that "those who actually vote X" are entirely irrelevant to electoral outcomes, as against those who sometimes vote X or who might on this occasion vote X.
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
May had a majority to get this through.
Whatever happened to that?
Just imbecility. The consensus is that, unlike Blair with his 2.8%, the Tories are going to need a lead of at least 8% to get a majority. If the new boundaries had been pushed through the risk of yet another hung Parliament would have been very much reduced.
A hung parliament will be the correct democratic outcome considering the divided nature of our nation that the Brexiteer fuckwits have brought us to.
We absolutely need a decision. Whether it is leave with a deal or revoke I am almost past caring but we cannot go on like this damaging our economy, destroying our constitution and failing to address the multiplicity of more important challenges we face year after year after year whilst 2 groups of tossers dominate our political life.
Which, the country having voted for Brexit, is a huge surprise to absolutely no one.
Are you not surprised by how bad losers remainers are? I mean, I knew they were arrogant, self important, conceited, patronising and completely full of their own sense of self worth...
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris. ...
I can understand that, and have toyed with the idea of voting Conservative after all for that reason (the last thing we want is another hung-parliament mess).
But then, having finally cornered himself into getting a deal which one could live with, thus making it possible to consider voting for him, Boris then wrecks it by driving out some of the best and most level-headed senior figures in the party, and making another brain-dead promise on the length of the transition, which could once again lead to a no-deal crash out, and certainly will lead to a repeat of the psychodrama and of uncertainty damaging the economy again. In which case, a hung parliament begins to look like the lesser nightmare.
That Bridgen interview is extraordinary. The deference he shows to Rees Moog boils down to the cringe so many Brits have when confronted with a crisp, home counties accent. The assumption that well-spoken equals smart has caused the UK so much trouble over the years and continues to do so.
That Rees Mogg thing gets worse the more you think about it.
You have bad gaffes and crank candidates in every election. In fact, it’s almost a statistical certainty.
I think the material impact is negligible unless very heavily concentrated in one party and part of a broader narrative.
Socialism presses some of the same buttons as nationalism about belonging and community.
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris. ...
I can understand that, and have toyed with the idea of voting Conservative after all for that reason (the last thing we want is another hung-parliament mess).
But then, having finally cornered himself into getting a deal which one could live with, thus making it possible to consider voting for him, Boris then wrecks it by driving out some of the best and most level-headed senior figures in the party, and making another brain-dead promise on the length of the transition, which could once again lead to a no-deal crash out, and certainly will lead to a repeat of the psychodrama and of uncertainty damaging the economy again. In which case, a hung parliament begins to look like the lesser nightmare.
It really isn't. A Lib Dem majority and revoke is less of a nightmare than yet another hung Parliament. We need a decision. Now.
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
No. I am Sunilsmumacus.
If that isn't the scientific name of a South Pacific nematode in the moulting season, I'll eat my hat.
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris. ...
I can understand that, and have toyed with the idea of voting Conservative after all for that reason (the last thing we want is another hung-parliament mess).
But then, having finally cornered himself into getting a deal which one could live with, thus making it possible to consider voting for him, Boris then wrecks it by driving out some of the best and most level-headed senior figures in the party, and making another brain-dead promise on the length of the transition, which could once again lead to a no-deal crash out, and certainly will lead to a repeat of the psychodrama and of uncertainty damaging the economy again. In which case, a hung parliament begins to look like the lesser nightmare.
It really isn't. A Lib Dem majority and revoke is less of a nightmare than yet another hung Parliament. We need a decision. Now.
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
May had a majority to get this through.
Whatever happened to that?
Just imbecility. The consensus is that, unlike Blair with his 2.8%, the Tories are going to need a lead of at least 8% to get a majority. If the new boundaries had been pushed through the risk of yet another hung Parliament would have been very much reduced.
A hung parliament will be the correct democratic outcome considering the divided nature of our nation that the Brexiteer fuckwits have brought us to.
We absolutely need a decision. Whether it is leave with a deal or revoke I am almost past caring but we cannot go on like this damaging our economy, destroying our constitution and failing to address the multiplicity of more important challenges we face year after year after year whilst 2 groups of tossers dominate our political life.
Which, the country having voted for Brexit, is a huge surprise to absolutely no one.
Are you not surprised by how bad losers remainers are? I mean, I knew they were arrogant, self important, conceited, patronising and completely full of their own sense of self worth but, jeez, to be willing to bring the house down? For this?
All of that but at least we have some semblance of intelligence. I think it shows what monumental morons Leavers are that they should be surprised at the state they have brought our country to.
I know not where you live but to vote Tory with those views unless by not doing would elect labour is a cop out. They are both poison and need to be driven from the political playing field. I can not see a single justification for either of their continued existence. Break free
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
May had a majority to get this through.
Whatever happened to that?
Just imbecility. The consensus is that, unlike Blair with his 2.8%, the Tories are going to need a lead of at least 8% to get a majority. If the new boundaries had been pushed through the risk of yet another hung Parliament would have been very much reduced.
A hung parliament will be the correct democratic outcome considering the divided nature of our nation that the Brexiteer fuckwits have brought us to.
We absolutely need a decision. Whether it is leave with a deal or revoke I am almost past caring but we cannot go on like this damaging our economy, destroying our constitution and failing to address the multiplicity of more important challenges we face year after year after year whilst 2 groups of tossers dominate our political life.
Which, the country having voted for Brexit, is a huge surprise to absolutely no one.
Are you not surprised by how bad losers remainers are? I mean, I knew they were arrogant, self important, conceited, patronising and completely full of their own sense of self worth but, jeez, to be willing to bring the house down? For this?
All of that but at least we have some semblance of intelligence. I think it shows what monumental morons Leavers are that they should be surprised at the state they have brought our country to.
I know not where you live but to vote Tory with those views unless by not doing would elect labour is a cop out. They are both poison and need to be driven from the political playing field. I can not see a single justification for either of their continued existence. Break free
From "did a pigeon squirt something out at high altitude?" to "barely-perceptible drizzle"?
It was the only thing I knew had happened today from a glance at the news, and even Guido listed is at the cut through message of today. It may not be that important, but it's been noticed, and so far its the only Tory thing that has been noticed since the GE was asked for.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
Exactly. He didn't say anything insulting or cruel whatsoever, he gave an answer that attempted to grapple with the wider implications of the tragedy. Millions will watch that news report and see his words as a statement of the obvious.
This is desperate spin . His insinuation was people should have used their common sense and ignored advice from the fire brigade . So in effect blaming some of the victims.
Firstly, it isn't 'spin' of any sort. If there are any floating voters amongst the PB commentariat to try and convince, I've never come across them.
People should have used their common sense and disobeyed the fire brigade. That is beyond dispute. They were not responsible for the disastrous events, but they were ultimately responsible for their responses in the face of them, and tragically, if understandably, they chose to trust the advice of the state.
Some people earlier were talking about [Swinson's] 'shrill' voice. Hmmm. I don't see much criticism of the irritating voices amongst men. .....
Well, if we are going down that route, I find Geoffrey Cox's booming, shouty voice and bombastic delivery to be vomit-inducing.
The Ludicrous Cox is simply that: ludicrous. He sounds like a stuffed foghorn. Yet he is a fave of the PB Tory fanboys.
How is your hyperbolic aversion to him any less ridiculous than over enthusiastic support for him?
Actually "stuffed foghorn" is quite a good metaphor for Cox.... I think that one will stay with me everytime I am subjected to him on the BBC/Sky/Wherever
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
The reduction to 600 constituencies was not "pointless gesturism": it was key to Cameron's attempt at gerrymandering. Here is how it works. Purge the rolls to make Labour-leaning areas look smaller than they are, then redraw the boundaries so that said Labour-leaning areas get fewer seats. This is where the reduction to 600 is crucial because it means *every* constituency needs to be redrawn, rather than just looking at the top few and bottom few and leaving most unchanged.
There are more expense-stealing "Lords" than there are MPs! Reduce the number of the former before reducing the number of the latter!
For those who can't face following the link, the headline is:
Minister must quit - rape trial 'sabotage' victim
"A rape victim has called on a UK cabinet minister to quit after his former aide - a Tory Welsh assembly candidate - "sabotaged" her trial. Ross England made claims about the victim's sexual history in an April 2018 trial which led to its collapse." Source BBC News
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
No. I am Sunilsmumacus.
Who am I? I've lost track.
You are @Ave_it on alternate Thursdays. You have to stock the exclamation marks and keep the hyperbole watered. I'll send you the rota. DON'T PRESS THE RED BUTTON.
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris
(Just for @Beibheirli_C , he is the leading light of Somerset’s Old Family - it looks like the Families are unifying behind a position at last)
My family is as old as yours is Charles. We both have bloodlines and DNA that stretch back to the beginning of life on Earth (or else we would not be here)
Mine is simple and traceable back to about 1600, sheep farmers from Cumbria through and through only broken in the early 1900s when some moved to Liverpool.
What’s so depressing about that CV is that it’s yet another MP who’s done wonk > speechwriter > journalist > wonk > SPAD.
Where are the people who’ve worked in business and industry?
As someone who previously worked in senior industrial management and have run two successful small businesses myself, I think one issue is that you start at the bottom if you switch into politics - you are used to taking difficlut decisions, weighing up potential and risk, and so on, and suddenly nobody really wants your opinion, let alone your decisions. It's like switching from running a business to volunteering at the CAB - it's a worthy thing to do, but if you enjoyed decision-making you do miss it. It's only 10-15 years later if you make it to Minister of State level that you get comparable authority. Most businesspeople can't be bothered.
From "did a pigeon squirt something out at high altitude?" to "barely-perceptible drizzle"?
It was the only thing I knew had happened today from a glance at the news, and even Guido listed is at the cut through message of today. It may not be that important, but it's been noticed, and so far its the only Tory thing that has been noticed since the GE was asked for.
If that's what cuts through with the public (and not, say, the NHS), then the Tories should have the Moggster on the airwaves talking balls all day every day until Dec 12th!
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
What is dangerous is being so beholden to officialdom that you stay in a burning building against every human instinct and your own better judgement. The state doesn't always have the answers, and there are times when this becomes tragically obvious.
Easy to say with hindsight. But a lot of people climbing down dark stairs possibly overcome with smoke inhalation, leaving doors open, might well have turned into another sort of tragedy. It is really difficult to know what to do when you have very incomplete information and have no idea what rescue attempts are being made and when your own actions may make things worse for rescuers.
The focus on what JRM has said has obscured the criticisms being made of the Fire Brigade’s failure to have a plan for this sort of fire and for having rigidly stuck to its initial advice long past the time when this stopped being sensible. The leadership of the Fire Brigade should not be let off the hook on this as a result of one politician’s ill-considered comments.
My mum is neither male nor pale, she says she can't stand Swinson.
What name does she post under on here Sunil?
Byronic...
No. Sunil's mum posts as "@Sunil", Sunil posts as @rcs1000, rcs1000 posts as @TOPPING , Topping posts as @SeanT, and SeanT is Sunil's mum IRL. It all makes perfect sense.
No. I am Sunilsmumacus.
Who am I? I've lost track.
You are @Ave_it on alternate Thursdays. You have to stock the exclamation marks and keep the hyperbole watered. I'll send you the rota. DON'T PRESS THE RED BUTTON.
Reminds me of one of my favourite Pratchett quotes (in a crowded field) : "Some humans would do anything to see if it was possible to do it. If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry."
Recently my son did a physics exam which quoted "a famous science fiction writer" who said, "in the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded. Explain". Not sure if he got an extra mark for pointing out it was Pratchett.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
I was thinking this, amazed it's still in the news. A lot of people will quietly agree with Mogg and if any Tories are appalled are they going to vote lib dem or bxp instead? Of course not. Compare this with the anti Semitic candidate in Coventry who will actually lose Labour voters.
People won't agree with Rees-Mogg, but they might wonder why, out of all of the horrible, needless, tragic deaths out there (and there are many) the Grenfell deaths have been somehow given a quasi religious significance.
A significance that is such that any mention of them that isn;t in hushed reverential, penitent tones is a kind of blasphemy.
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
May had a majority to get this through.
Whatever happened to that?
Just imbecility. The consensus is that, unlike Blair with his 2.8%, the Tories are going to need a lead of at least 8% to get a majority. If the new boundaries had been pushed through the risk of yet another hung Parliament would have been very much reduced.
A hung parliament will be the correct democratic outcome considering the divided nature of our nation that the Brexiteer fuckwits have brought us to.
We absolutely need a decision. Whether it is leave with a deal or revoke I am almost past caring but we cannot go on like this damaging our economy, destroying our constitution and failing to address the multiplicity of more important challenges we face year after year after year whilst 2 groups of tossers dominate our political life.
Which, the country having voted for Brexit, is a huge surprise to absolutely no one.
Are you not surprised by how bad losers remainers are? I mean, I knew they were arrogant, self important, conceited, patronising and completely full of their own sense of self worth but, jeez, to be willing to bring the house down? For this?
All of that but at least we have some semblance of intelligence. I think it shows what monumental morons Leavers are that they should be surprised at the state they have brought our country to.
I know not where you live but to vote Tory with those views unless by not doing would elect labour is a cop out. They are both poison and need to be driven from the political playing field. I can not see a single justification for either of their continued existence. Break free
Corbyn.
And thereby lies the problem, why then can not labour supporters see their problem?
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
What is dangerous is being so beholden to officialdom that you stay in a burning building against every human instinct and your own better judgement. The state doesn't always have the answers, and there are times when this becomes tragically obvious.
Easy to say with hindsight. But a lot of people climbing down dark stairs possibly overcome with smoke inhalation, leaving doors open, might well have turned into another sort of tragedy. It is really difficult to know what to do when you have very incomplete information and have no idea what rescue attempts are being made and when your own actions may make things worse for rescuers.
The focus on what JRM has said has obscured the criticisms being made of the Fire Brigade’s failure to have a plan for this sort of fire and for having rigidly stuck to its initial advice long past the time when this stopped being sensible. The leadership of the Fire Brigade should not be let off the hook on this as a result of one politician’s ill-considered comments.
Is what JRM said any better or worse than Doreen Lawrence calling the LFB racist.
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris
(Just for @Beibheirli_C , he is the leading light of Somerset’s Old Family - it looks like the Families are unifying behind a position at last)
My family is as old as yours is Charles. We both have bloodlines and DNA that stretch back to the beginning of life on Earth (or else we would not be here)
Mine is simple and traceable back to about 1600, sheep farmers from Cumbria through and through only broken in the early 1900s when some moved to Liverpool.
What’s so depressing about that CV is that it’s yet another MP who’s done wonk > speechwriter > journalist > wonk > SPAD.
Where are the people who’ve worked in business and industry?
As someone who previously worked in senior industrial management and have run two successful small businesses myself, I think one issue is that you start at the bottom if you switch into politics - you are used to taking difficlut decisions, weighing up potential and risk, and so on, and suddenly nobody really wants your opinion, let alone your decisions. It's like switching from running a business to volunteering at the CAB - it's a worthy thing to do, but if you enjoyed decision-making you do miss it. It's only 10-15 years later if you make it to Minister of State level that you get comparable authority. Most businesspeople can't be bothered.
I think that's an interesting point, and it rings true. It's for the same reason you quickly find who is and is not likely to stick it out as a lcoal councillor for more than a term, as parties often don't seem to advise candidates of what the position really entails, and working amidst the bureacracy of local government is not going to be for everyone, especially when in leader and cabinet models, in cleare majority areas, the non Cabinet members may have very little decision making power.
What is dangerous is being so beholden to officialdom that you stay in a burning building against every human instinct and your own better judgement. The state doesn't always have the answers, and there are times when this becomes tragically obvious.
Indeed. If only the building had been full of free thinking small state libertarian radicals rather than spoon fed benefit junkies the death toll would been near zero.
I hope this comes out clearly in the final report.
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris
(Just for @Beibheirli_C , he is the leading light of Somerset’s Old Family - it looks like the Families are unifying behind a position at last)
My family is as old as yours is Charles. We both have bloodlines and DNA that stretch back to the beginning of life on Earth (or else we would not be here)
Mine is simple and traceable back to about 1600, sheep farmers from Cumbria through and through only broken in the early 1900s when some moved to Liverpool.
The poll certainly needs to be put in context with the movement in national opinion polls since early May, when Con and Lab were level pegging on 24% each. The current national YouGov poll, with changes relative to the national YouGov poll conducted on 8-9 May, shows Con 38 (+14), Lab 25 (+1), LD 16 (nc), Brexit 11 (-7), Green 5 (-2), UKIP 0 (-2), Change UK 0 (-2).
I think the main message from the YouGov London poll is that the Conservatives' have had a pretty limited recovery in London, out of step with their dramatic recovery in GB as a whole. i.e. compared to the movements nationally in London we have Con -8, Lab +3, LD -2, BXP +3.
Is this what we would have expected? Yes it is, because in the intervening period May has been replaced by Johnson and the Conservatives are now pursuing an unequivocal Leave agenda, and London as a whole is a heavily Remain city and will judge Johnson accordingly. So the poll doesn't really contradict the message from the national polls. It also suggests by implication that it is right to expect a more dramatic recovery for the Conservatives in heavily Leave regions and seats.
Net gains for Con in Lab's (supposedly) strongest area in the whole country indicates Jezza is in big, big trouble in this election, IMO.
I had coffee with an old friend this morning
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris
(Just for @Beibheirli_C , he is the leading light of Somerset’s Old Family - it looks like the Families are unifying behind a position at last)
Yes, my old boss is a centre left LibDem/Labour floater who voted Remain, but he says he is considering voting Tory just to get Brexit over with. I suspect lots like him explain why their campaign is off to a good start.
One factor that I think has not been given nearly enough attention is that the Tories are once again facing an election on a completely out of date electoral roll with some rotten Labour boroughs barely half the size of some Tory seats. After 9 years in what might loosely called government this is just quite staggering incompetence. These are the same boundaries that gave Blair a 60 majority with all of 35.2% of the vote and a lead over the Conservatives of 2.8%.
The pointless gesturism of Cameron in trying to reduce expenses stealing MPs to a mere 600 thieves and rogues may yet cost Boris dear.
May had a majority to get this through.
Whatever happened to that?
Just imbecility. The consensus is that, unlike Blair with his 2.8%, the Tories are going to need a lead of at least 8% to get a majority. If the new boundaries had been pushed through the risk of yet another hung Parliament would have been very much reduced.
A hung parliament will be the correct democratic outcome considering the divided nature of our nation that the Brexiteer fuckwits have brought us to.
We at 2 groups of tossers dominate our political life.
Which, the country having voted for Brexit, is a huge surprise to absolutely no one.
Are you not surprised by how bad losers remainers are? I mean, I knew they were arrogant, self important, conceited, patronising and completely full of their own sense of self worth but, jeez, to be willing to bring the house down? For this?
All of that but at least we have some semblance of intelligence. I think it shows what monumental morons Leavers are that they should be surprised at the state they have brought our country to.
I know not where you live but to vote Tory with those views unless by not doing would elect labour is a cop out. They are both poison and need to be driven from the political playing field. I can not see a single justification for either of their continued existence. Break free
Corbyn.
And thereby lies the problem, why then can not labour supporters see their problem?
That is a question you'll have to address to them. Plenty of sensible types would head over to Lab absent the hard left policies. Although I'm sure many would leave also under those circumstances that said.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
What is dangerous is being so beholden to officialdom that you stay in a burning building against every human instinct and your own better judgement. The state doesn't always have the answers, and there are times when this becomes tragically obvious.
Easy to say with hindsight. But a lot of people climbing down dark stairs possibly overcome with smoke inhalation, leaving doors open, might well have turned into another sort of tragedy. It is really difficult to know what to do when you have very incomplete information and have no idea what rescue attempts are being made and when your own actions may make things worse for rescuers.
The focus on what JRM has said has obscured the criticisms being made of the Fire Brigade’s failure to have a plan for this sort of fire and for having rigidly stuck to its initial advice long past the time when this stopped being sensible. The leadership of the Fire Brigade should not be let off the hook on this as a result of one politician’s ill-considered comments.
Stupid to say with hindsight or without. The choice wasn't stay in/leave a burning building, it was stay in this part of a burning building or go to another part of it witn a view to eventually leaving. And people don't obey firemen because they are part of officialdom or of the state, they obey them because they presumably know more about how fires behave in high rise buildings than people who are not firemen.
And thereby lies the problem, why then can not labour supporters see their problem?
Like the Abrahamic religions, Labour has a strong dose of "Us and Them". Questioning the Party is like doubting the Vatican - for many, it is simply beyond the pale.
The fervent Labour supporters I have met really do believe in their own righteousness.
It's terrible. One of those that gets worse rather than better with context and sober consideration.
JRM isn't going to lose the Tories a single vote amongst those who actually vote Conservative, as opposed to those who pretend to.
You say that as if you had any way of knowing it to be true. And as if you didn't realise that "those who actually vote X" are entirely irrelevant to electoral outcomes, as against those who sometimes vote X or who might on this occasion vote X.
You have to cut Moggster some slack. He has different common sense than the rest of us. In his world Police, Firemen, are servants, and you don’t take orders from servants.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.
Completely agree. It combined being stupid, insulting to innocent victims and dangerous.
What is dangerous is being so beholden to officialdom that you stay in a burning building against every human instinct and your own better judgement. The state doesn't always have the answers, and there are times when this becomes tragically obvious.
Easy to say with hindsight. But a lot of people climbing down dark stairs possibly overcome with smoke inhalation, leaving doors open, might well have turned into another sort of tragedy. It is really difficult to know what to do when you have very incomplete information and have no idea what rescue attempts are being made and when your own actions may make things worse for rescuers.
The focus on what JRM has said has obscured the criticisms being made of the Fire Brigade’s failure to have a plan for this sort of fire and for having rigidly stuck to its initial advice long past the time when this stopped being sensible. The leadership of the Fire Brigade should not be let off the hook on this as a result of one politician’s ill-considered comments.
I agree that it's really difficult, and I can only thank God I've never been placed in that situation, however, ultimately, as well as state agencies being better prepared, it's to be hoped that we all develop our 'survival senses' (common sense is a better way of saying it but clearly gives people an attack of the vapours). We cannot subcontract responsibility for our health and safety to the state - to do so is dangerous.
What’s so depressing about that CV is that it’s yet another MP who’s done wonk > speechwriter > journalist > wonk > SPAD.
Where are the people who’ve worked in business and industry?
As someone who previously worked in senior industrial management and have run two successful small businesses myself, I think one issue is that you start at the bottom if you switch into politics - you are used to taking difficlut decisions, weighing up potential and risk, and so on, and suddenly nobody really wants your opinion, let alone your decisions. It's like switching from running a business to volunteering at the CAB - it's a worthy thing to do, but if you enjoyed decision-making you do miss it. It's only 10-15 years later if you make it to Minister of State level that you get comparable authority. Most businesspeople can't be bothered.
I think that's an interesting point, and it rings true. It's for the same reason you quickly find who is and is not likely to stick it out as a lcoal councillor for more than a term, as parties often don't seem to advise candidates of what the position really entails, and working amidst the bureacracy of local government is not going to be for everyone, especially when in leader and cabinet models, in cleare majority areas, the non Cabinet members may have very little decision making power.
Although councillors have more opportunity to influence and change things, if on a very small scale, than backbench MPs, who are glorified letter boxes for correspondence.
Comments
Otherwise, I’m lost for words.
The Tories also lead with white Londoners on 34% to 30% for Labour and 22% for the LDs while Labour still leads with BME Londoners on 53% to 22% for the Tories and 14% for the LDs
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/11/05/labours-london-lead-slimmer-2017
It’s a sad world where individuals of any political colour are subject to threats etc when at the end of the day most just want to give something back to the society they have benefited from.
Though the two really important questions are:
1) Who is the bigger fuckwit - Letwin or Mogg.
2) Why does the Conservative party keep investing in Etonian fuckwits ?
He was the most ardent Remainer I know (my source on the French government’s tactics and views).
He’s come to the conclusion that Brexit needs to happen and hence will vote for Boris
(Just for @Beibheirli_C , he is the leading light of Somerset’s Old Family - it looks like the Families are unifying behind a position at last)
1. Who cares? Both a total waste of space and oxygen.
2. Err....
As ever this is being turned into a “story” because the level of debate in this country is that of a seven year old. We’ll see this done to Corbyn and other Labour figures over the next five weeks and it won’t be any better then.
You political sorts are all as bad as each other.
Christ.
But then, having finally cornered himself into getting a deal which one could live with, thus making it possible to consider voting for him, Boris then wrecks it by driving out some of the best and most level-headed senior figures in the party, and making another brain-dead promise on the length of the transition, which could once again lead to a no-deal crash out, and certainly will lead to a repeat of the psychodrama and of uncertainty damaging the economy again. In which case, a hung parliament begins to look like the lesser nightmare.
https://www.ilfordrecorder.co.uk/news/central-line-to-reduce-services-between-woodford-and-hainault-1-6348464
Under the planned timetable, most of the current Woodford via Hainault services will become a shuttle between Woodford and Hainault, calling at Grange Hill, Chigwell, and Roding Valley.
The current eight car full-length trains will also become four-car shuttles.
Customers that need to head into central London should change at Woodford or at Hainault.
There will also be a reduction in services between Debden, Theydon Bois and Epping stations by two trains per hour, although TfL says this is to maintain the frequency of services between Woodford and Loughton.
It isn't Rees Mogg.
As for Andrew Bridgen... words fail me.
People should have used their common sense and disobeyed the fire brigade. That is beyond dispute. They were not responsible for the disastrous events, but they were ultimately responsible for their responses in the face of them, and tragically, if understandably, they chose to trust the advice of the state.
Reduce the number of the former before reducing the number of the latter!
The BBC are now leading with this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-50302172
For those who can't face following the link, the headline is:
Minister must quit - rape trial 'sabotage' victim
"A rape victim has called on a UK cabinet minister to quit after his former aide - a Tory Welsh assembly candidate - "sabotaged" her trial.
Ross England made claims about the victim's sexual history in an April 2018 trial which led to its collapse." Source BBC News
Mine is simple and traceable back to about 1600, sheep farmers from Cumbria through and through only broken in the early 1900s when some moved to Liverpool.
The focus on what JRM has said has obscured the criticisms being made of the Fire Brigade’s failure to have a plan for this sort of fire and for having rigidly stuck to its initial advice long past the time when this stopped being sensible. The leadership of the Fire Brigade should not be let off the hook on this as a result of one politician’s ill-considered comments.
Recently my son did a physics exam which quoted "a famous science fiction writer" who said, "in the beginning there was nothing. Which exploded. Explain". Not sure if he got an extra mark for pointing out it was Pratchett.
A significance that is such that any mention of them that isn;t in hushed reverential, penitent tones is a kind of blasphemy.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/never-feared-labour-government-like-do-prospect-corbyns-rabble/
I hope this comes out clearly in the final report.
I think the main message from the YouGov London poll is that the Conservatives' have had a pretty limited recovery in London, out of step with their dramatic recovery in GB as a whole. i.e. compared to the movements nationally in London we have Con -8, Lab +3, LD -2, BXP +3.
Is this what we would have expected? Yes it is, because in the intervening period May has been replaced by Johnson and the Conservatives are now pursuing an unequivocal Leave agenda, and London as a whole is a heavily Remain city and will judge Johnson accordingly. So the poll doesn't really contradict the message from the national polls. It also suggests by implication that it is right to expect a more dramatic recovery for the Conservatives in heavily Leave regions and seats.
The fervent Labour supporters I have met really do believe in their own righteousness.
(Though I do hope your coffee was suitably unadorned......)