Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
There are still quite a number of potential rebels. Your assumption is also that he will get a majority, which even with the helpfulness of J Corbyn is far from a dead cert.
More lies. Where was the unilateral exit in the original plan?
I don't engage with people who falsely accuse me of lying.
do you engage with people who correctly accuse you of lying ? :-)
If I can find any, yes of course.
I believe youre voting LD so shouldnt be a log wait
Ms Swinson has been doing an excellent job trying to dissuade me from voting LibDem.
How so, she seems to be doing OK form this ex-Tory's perspective. A little lightweight so far, but no more so than the alternatives.
She’s a bit lightweight, but compared to the bantamweights Corbo and Bunter, that’s okay. I like her. She seems like a nice lady. She does have the air of a primary school teacher, but that’s mostly the colourful dangly earrings. The opprobrium she attracts on here is bizarre.
Jean-Claude Juncker says he doesn't think it’s realistic for Jeremy Corbyn to negotiate a new Brexit deal if Labour wins the election, but says it’d be a decision for the incoming EC president
Well, since: a) he said that about Boris's chances, b) Labour want a CU which the EU will jump at, and c) Junker will be gone anyway... I think we can take that with une pincée de sel.
Any examples? Links to Youtube or Facebook? Or even to descriptions? Most of the post-election commentary praised Labour's 2017 digital operation.
I was shown some of them by my nephews. They went on to vote Labour. What was most interesting about it was to see the brain-washing in operation; it was extremely effective even with intelligent and well-educated youngsters, albeit highly cynical.
The kinds of thing that were in the videos were very nasty insinuations about Theresa May and Grenfell, or implying that she took active delight in people committing suicide. Really, really nasty stuff.
Fortunately youngsters now seem to have become a bit more inured to Corbyn's charms; those I know all seem to be voting LibDem this time.
Tell them to vote tactically anti-Tory if they live in the ~100-150 marginals, or they'll let in a Nasty Party govt. featuring ministers who want to send the poor to the workhouse (if not 'put them down'). There's very little risk of a Corbyn govt., only a Lab/LD/SNP pact.
No-one of integrity should vote Labour for as long as it is run by anti-Semitic, terrorist-supporting, economy-destroying Corbyn.
The current PM said F*** Business. Brexit is for life, not just for Xmas. A govt's only for 4-5 years.
The chances of a Labour majority are about zero. The betting odds are probably ~50, i.e. highly improbable. Any Corbyn victory would be neutered by the SDP wing. Unlike the rather striking cull of One-Nation Tories, there hasn't been a similar cull of the Labour right incl Benn or Cooper although some who were probably always more at home in a Centre Party have ended up as L.Dems.
People thought there was zero chance of Corbyn becoming PM last time but it turned out it was margin of error stuff. The volatility of current politics mean there is a decent minority chance. People get far too certain about these things.
And we can join the EU again. We likely will given demographics. However I am not sure anti-Semitism will be put back in the bottle after Corbyn is PM.
I'm not actually sure about this one. What exactly have Labour achieved in a week that the Tories seem to have taken off as a pre-election holiday? They've whined about the NHS and reminded everyone of what a mess their Brexit "policy" is. The few points they've recovered from LDs / Greens / whoever seem to be more of a Pavlovian reaction to an FPTP election being called than anything else.
I think they might have opened up a chink for the Tories, and perhaps the LibDems, to attack them on the NHS. I'm referring to their stated policy of wanting to bring all NHS provision in house. Currently around 6% of elective surgery is sub-contracted by the NHS to private hospitals, and some of those at least have a very good reputation. For example, in my area the Horder Centre is widely used for things like hip replacements, and is reckoned to be really good. A lot of people will either have been treated in such hospitals, or will have friends and relatives who have. A well-targeted and well-researched campaign saying that 'Labour want to shut XXX', where XXX is a well-regarded local facility like that, might be quite effective, if the Conservatives get it right.
I don't think Labour want to shut those extra units so much as to nationalise them.
Private hospitals now make about half their income from outsourced NHS surgery, mostly due to inadequate capacity in the NHS. As it is all done by Consultants with substantive NHS contracts, a requirement of admission rights in the private sector.
The EU originally offered a unilateral exit from any special arrangements for Northern Ireland? When did they originally offer this, or are you making up nonsense because you are too far down the rabbit hole to admit Boris did better than you expected?
They offered almost exactly what Boris agreed to as their opening offer, with Michel Barnier making a big play about de-dramatising the regulatory requirements. True, at the end they gave Boris a fig-leaf of a theoretical unilateral exit from the NI arrangement, but no-one on this earth, literally no-one, thinks it's an exit which can ever actually happen in practice, so it's not exactly a major concession. The most significant thing from their point of view is that it removes the original backstop, which was so advantageous to us.
Only in your delusions was the backstop advantageous to us. The people calling for the backstop to be removed was Boris and the Brexiteers not Barnier and the EU. In fact they did quite the opposite.
Until you are willing to admit that removing the backstop was a victory not failure for a leader elected on a pledge to remove the backstop you just come across as bitter.
Boris said a border down the Irish Sea was unacceptable
Boris agreed to a deal with a border down the Irish seas.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
How so, she seems to be doing OK form this ex-Tory's perspective. A little lightweight so far, but no more so than the alternatives.
It's things like:
- Trying to tack votes for children and votes for foreigners onto an election scheduled for a few weeks' time. I'm against both, but could live with those as policies to at least consider, but it strikes me as mad to try to introduce them with zero thought as an amendment to a bill setting a date for an election - or, worse, as gerrymandering.
- Then the utter silliness about the 9th December vs the 12th December. I mean, that's the kind of childishness I expect from the SNP, not from a party seriously wanting my vote.
- And then they even managed to vote against the election which a couple of days earlier they'd asked for. She should leave that sort of loony inconsistency to Labour, who have that market sewn up.
- And then the utterly bonkers whinge that she was excluded from the TV debates because of sexism. The LibDems just about might have had a very weak case for wanting to be included, and certainly I would expect them to say they should be included, but blaming it on sexism is barmy.
OK, well they are reasons I grant you, though a little overly critical. I think some of the reason for excluding her from the TV debates does have some basis in sexism. If she were there, the party managers for the blue and red team know it would show up the certain misogyny and old school staleness of Johnson and Corbyn.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
I think it’s easily finessed with some sort of “outline of an agreement” or even some HoTs.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
More lies. Where was the unilateral exit in the original plan?
I don't engage with people who falsely accuse me of lying.
do you engage with people who correctly accuse you of lying ? :-)
If I can find any, yes of course.
I believe youre voting LD so shouldnt be a log wait
Ms Swinson has been doing an excellent job trying to dissuade me from voting LibDem.
How so, she seems to be doing OK form this ex-Tory's perspective. A little lightweight so far, but no more so than the alternatives.
She’s a bit lightweight, but compared to the bantamweights Corbo and Bunter, that’s okay. I like her. She seems like a nice lady. She does have the air of a primary school teacher, but that’s mostly the colourful dangly earrings. The opprobrium she attracts on here is bizarre.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
It also highlights the problem with the Brexiteers central theme that if we do not like our politicians we can just change them.
No we cannot.
Look at our current choice. Our system only allows one of two parties to triumph or a coalition every 30 to 40 years. So if we want to want to change our politicians, who do we chose? A bunch of increasingly right-wing nutters or the People's Revolutionary Front aka Corbyn's Labour?
It is no choice at all, so Brexit fails its raison d'etre and we stuck with a bunch of twerps no matter what we do.
The EU originally offered a unilateral exit from any special arrangements for Northern Ireland? When did they originally offer this, or are you making up nonsense because you are too far down the rabbit hole to admit Boris did better than you expected?
They offered almost exactly what Boris agreed to as their opening offer, with Michel Barnier making a big play about de-dramatising the regulatory requirements. True, at the end they gave Boris a fig-leaf of a theoretical unilateral exit from the NI arrangement, but no-one on this earth, literally no-one, thinks it's an exit which can ever actually happen in practice, so it's not exactly a major concession. The most significant thing from their point of view is that it removes the original backstop, which was so advantageous to us.
Only in your delusions was the backstop advantageous to us. The people calling for the backstop to be removed was Boris and the Brexiteers not Barnier and the EU. In fact they did quite the opposite.
Until you are willing to admit that removing the backstop was a victory not failure for a leader elected on a pledge to remove the backstop you just come across as bitter.
Boris said a border down the Irish Sea was unacceptable
Boris agreed to a deal with a border down the Irish seas.
The actual border in customs territories will be between ROI and NI. It is just tht administrative checks will be done in the ports.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians. Something voters might notice.
I don't think it has anything to do with being an old Etonian; I have met some very humble extremely affable and pleasant ones. Rees-Mogg is just a not very bright tosser. You find them at all schools. Eton is no exception.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
It is such a spectacular unforced error, made worse by the doubling down.
The EU originally offered a unilateral exit from any special arrangements for Northern Ireland? When did they originally offer this, or are you making up nonsense because you are too far down the rabbit hole to admit Boris did better than you expected?
They offered almost exactly what Boris agreed to as their opening offer, with Michel Barnier making a big play about de-dramatising the regulatory requirements. True, at the end they gave Boris a fig-leaf of a theoretical unilateral exit from the NI arrangement, but no-one on this earth, literally no-one, thinks it's an exit which can ever actually happen in practice, so it's not exactly a major concession. The most significant thing from their point of view is that it removes the original backstop, which was so advantageous to us.
Only in your delusions was the backstop advantageous to us. The people calling for the backstop to be removed was Boris and the Brexiteers not Barnier and the EU. In fact they did quite the opposite.
Until you are willing to admit that removing the backstop was a victory not failure for a leader elected on a pledge to remove the backstop you just come across as bitter.
Boris said a border down the Irish Sea was unacceptable
Boris agreed to a deal with a border down the Irish seas.
Jean-Claude Juncker says he doesn't think it’s realistic for Jeremy Corbyn to negotiate a new Brexit deal if Labour wins the election, but says it’d be a decision for the incoming EC president
Well, since: a) he said that about Boris's chances, b) Labour want a CU which the EU will jump at, and c) Junker will be gone anyway... I think we can take that with une pincée de sel.
The EU have said they will not open the treaty and the idea a new treaty can be agreed with the EU 27 and their Parliament and then a referendum take placeby mid June is for the birds.
It will take some months to put in place any changes and then a referendum legislation will take months plus a 22 weeks campaign
The whole process would drag on through most of 2020 with no certainty of outcome
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
What we need is a trade deal that is so close to what we have in the transitional period that we don't need an extension. I agree that Boris will find that a hard sell but I think he will be trying. The hope is that once we are actually out a lot of the heat and madness goes out of this.
More lies. Where was the unilateral exit in the original plan?
I don't engage with people who falsely accuse me of lying.
do you engage with people who correctly accuse you of lying ? :-)
If I can find any, yes of course.
I believe youre voting LD so shouldnt be a log wait
Ms Swinson has been doing an excellent job trying to dissuade me from voting LibDem.
snap
the nanny knows best approach just makes me switch off
Come on you were never going to vote Lib Dem as are all the other posters who are making snide and unjustified comments about her. The U.K. faces a choice of voting for a duplicitous buffoon taken hostage by the extreme right, a lunatic nationalizing incompetent idiot and a center ground alternative seeking to solve the real problems in health, education , electoral reform and a range of other issues. Corbyn and Johnson are both as bad as each other.
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
"Why are these successive Conservative governments so shit?" "It's Labour's fault"
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
If the electorate haven't learned from that experience, then I genuinely despair.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
You think there is zero chance of Brexit winning a second referendum?
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
Correct - I don't.
The people who flocked to Corbyn will (rightly) blame the the people who flocked to May for this completely fucked up government.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
What we need is a trade deal that is so close to what we have in the transitional period that we don't need an extension. I agree that Boris will find that a hard sell but I think he will be trying. The hope is that once we are actually out a lot of the heat and madness goes out of this.
I think it will in the country, but not in the Tory party.
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
If the electorate haven't learned from that experience, then I genuinely despair.
For some reason you think the tories are the solution others disagree.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
It also highlights the problem with the Brexiteers central theme that if we do not like our politicians we can just change them.
No we cannot.
Look at our current choice. Our system only allows one of two parties to triumph or a coalition every 30 to 40 years. So if we want to want to change our politicians, who do we chose? A bunch of increasingly right-wing nutters or the People's Revolutionary Front aka Corbyn's Labour?
It is no choice at all, so Brexit fails its raison d'etre and we stuck with a bunch of twerps no matter what we do.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
It also highlights the problem with the Brexiteers central theme that if we do not like our politicians we can just change them.
No we cannot.
Look at our current choice. Our system only allows one of two parties to triumph or a coalition every 30 to 40 years. So if we want to want to change our politicians, who do we chose? A bunch of increasingly right-wing nutters or the People's Revolutionary Front aka Corbyn's Labour?
It is no choice at all, so Brexit fails its raison d'etre and we stuck with a bunch of twerps no matter what we do.
I cannot use the daily mail site as I find the jumble of overlapping, bouncing, scrolling ads a total distraction.
Not even going to try any more. What are the web designers (and the advertisers) thinking?!
I never look at the mail site. I receive the actual paper through the mail.plus app at £9.99 per month
Blimey Big_G, you pay real money for the DM!?
I had the daily mail delivered for many years and went on line with it some time ago. I genuinely do not read it most of the time but it is very much used by my wife who does the puzzles daily, keeping active as she reaches 80
If the Tories do make gains in London - and Wales, and the North - and losses in the home counties - and form a government - then it could be the most geographically balanced party in power we've seen for some time. A lot of ifs there, mind you.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
You think there is zero chance of Brexit winning a second referendum?
About 15% maybe. If significant numbers of leavers won't accept leaving under May or Boris deals via parliament, at least some of them will not if either gets put to a referendum. Add to that Remain growing in strength and I'd agree with DavidL, any outcome other than a Tory majority means Brexit is dead.
Just for shits and giggles, what do we think the polling and GE2019 might look like if it were still on for 12th December and...
(1) The Tories (led by Stewart or Hammond) had campaigned on a 2nd referendum plus Remain platform on the basis of Cameron’s Deal+ (they’d looked at Leave, and couldn’t reach an agreement in the national interest they could in good faith recommend, so were pledging a new vote on a new - improved - Deal inside the EU instead) (2) The Lib Dems were still led by Swinson but with no Tory defectors, just from Corbyn’s Labour (3) Labour was the same current shitshow (4) The Brexit Party was full-on billy bollocks for Brexit and led by Farage, going utterly apeshit about the Tory position (5) Sturgeon was still the same and basically trying it on (again) with a 2nd indyref lush
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
What we need is a trade deal that is so close to what we have in the transitional period that we don't need an extension. I agree that Boris will find that a hard sell but I think he will be trying. The hope is that once we are actually out a lot of the heat and madness goes out of this.
The heat and madness will go on for years. Brexit is a debilitating disease, a cure for which is currently beyond scientific understanding or capability .
And people wonder why ex-Tories like me thing the party has been taken over by fuckwits! You really could not make it up! The only reason Labour isn't 20 points ahead is because they have chosen an even more cretinous individual to lead them!
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
What we need is a trade deal that is so close to what we have in the transitional period that we don't need an extension. I agree that Boris will find that a hard sell but I think he will be trying. The hope is that once we are actually out a lot of the heat and madness goes out of this.
I’m sure we can have the same deal as that in transition if we pay £350 million a week no problems.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
What we need is a trade deal that is so close to what we have in the transitional period that we don't need an extension. I agree that Boris will find that a hard sell but I think he will be trying. The hope is that once we are actually out a lot of the heat and madness goes out of this.
I think it will in the country, but not in the Tory party.
Well, we'll see. As my initial comment pointed out the next Tory party will be much more cohesive than it has been since 2015, arguably since Maastricht. For good or ill we have a winner and the future of the party is clear.
More lies. Where was the unilateral exit in the original plan?
I don't engage with people who falsely accuse me of lying.
do you engage with people who correctly accuse you of lying ? :-)
If I can find any, yes of course.
I believe youre voting LD so shouldnt be a log wait
Ms Swinson has been doing an excellent job trying to dissuade me from voting LibDem.
How so, she seems to be doing OK form this ex-Tory's perspective. A little lightweight so far, but no more so than the alternatives.
She’s a bit lightweight, but compared to the bantamweights Corbo and Bunter, that’s okay. I like her. She seems like a nice lady. She does have the air of a primary school teacher, but that’s mostly the colourful dangly earrings. The opprobrium she attracts on here is bizarre.
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
"Why are these successive Conservative governments so shit?" "It's Labour's fault"
If a few % of voters hadn't stupidly put their trust in Corbyn in 2017, May would have had a majority and got her Deal through with no fuss and no bother. They didn't get their crazy commie in but managed to cripple a sensible Government instead.
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
That would require a lot of people to accept they made a mistake, rather than, as Benpointer notes, blaming the people who flocked to the other side.
Which of those options is easier for people to do? I think we know.
If the Tories do make gains in London - and Wales, and the North - and losses in the home counties - and form a government - then it could be the most geographically balanced party in power we've seen for some time. A lot of ifs there, mind you.
Especially if they can hold off the SNP too.
Highly unlikely
I'm going Tories 6, LDs 5, Labour zero, SNP 48 What's your thinking this time round?
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
"Why are these successive Conservative governments so shit?" "It's Labour's fault"
Comedy central perhaps, but it has an element of truth. If a competent Labour Party had coherent policies, the Conservatives would be in electoral oblivion for at least 10 years, maybe 15.
The Conservative's victory will largely be down to the Labour Party's complete, utter and total ineptness. The current Tory party should be unelectable on any absolute basis, but relative to opposition....
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
"General Election: Jo Swinson has a Facebook problem Sky News to investigate how tech is used and misused through the election with Under the Radar project."
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
"Why are these successive Conservative governments so shit?" "It's Labour's fault"
If a few % of voters hadn't stupidly put their trust in Corbyn in 2017, May would have had a majority and got her Deal through with no fuss and no bother. They didn't get their crazy commie in but managed to cripple a sensible Government instead.
This is gold. Pure, pure gold.
What else can we blame Corbyn for? I see we have rain in some part of the country this bonfire night.
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
Yes I think the floaters wanted to limit May's expected huge majority last time.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
You think there is zero chance of Brexit winning a second referendum?
Not zero but vanishingly unlikely. In a second referendum the choice will not be leave or remain but a particular brand of leave against remain. I am not convinced that there was ever a majority for a particular brand of leave as opposed to the principle. Only a small number of idiots led by that idiot Farage (in fairness many other idiots are available) would be sufficient to change what was always a close result.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
There is nothing wrong with Rees Mogg's comments.
He apparently disagrees, if he's apologised. Not much point fighting for the General when he's already thrown in the towell.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
There is nothing wrong with Rees Mogg's comments.
So why did he apologise?
That question would be best put to him.
Sounds like a bad idea. It would just rile up those who don't think he should have.
Just for shits and giggles, what do we think the polling and GE2019 might look like if it were still on for 12th December and...
(1) The Tories (led by Stewart or Hammond) had campaigned on a 2nd referendum plus Remain platform on the basis of Cameron’s Deal+ (they’d looked at Leave, and couldn’t reach an agreement in the national interest they could in good faith recommend, so were pledging a new vote on a new - improved - Deal inside the EU instead) (2) The Lib Dems were still led by Swinson but with no Tory defectors, just from Corbyn’s Labour (3) Labour was the same current shitshow (4) The Brexit Party was full-on billy bollocks for Brexit and led by Farage, going utterly apeshit about the Tory position (5) Sturgeon was still the same and basically trying it on (again) with a 2nd indyref lush
Thoughts??
Landslide Tory win, lib dems seeking to replace labour
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
Yes I think the floaters wanted to limit May's expected huge majority last time.
And while people are trying to dampen down the triumphalism this time, a majority for the Tories is expected this time, and it really is the last chance for Remain and Leave alike. Those who did not want May to have a majority have just as much reason to go against Boris, possibly more. Just a question of if the push factor of Corbyn is strong enough to overcome that.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
There is nothing wrong with Rees Mogg's comments.
He apparently disagrees, if he's apologised. Not much point fighting for the General when he's already thrown in the towell.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
There is nothing wrong with Rees Mogg's comments.
So why did he apologise?
That question would be best put to him.
Sounds like a bad idea. It would just rile up those who don't think he should have.
I didn't realise I was fighting for anyone, I thought I was expressing my opinion.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
What we need is a trade deal that is so close to what we have in the transitional period that we don't need an extension. I agree that Boris will find that a hard sell but I think he will be trying. The hope is that once we are actually out a lot of the heat and madness goes out of this.
I’m sure we can have the same deal as that in transition if we pay £350 million a week no problems.
See, that's where May's deal was patently better. Under it we had the right to unlimited access to the SM for the whole of the UK for NOTHING!!!!. It was a huge concession from the EU and we will regret not keeping it.
On topic, if Labour doing this badly in London then they are going to get smashed all over Britain.
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
You don't think that since 2017, people might just have noticed that flocking to Corbyn simply led to completely fucked up Govt.? And that many, many might not want to repeat that mistake?
"Why are these successive Conservative governments so shit?" "It's Labour's fault"
Comedy central perhaps, but it has an element of truth. If a competent Labour Party had coherent policies, the Conservatives would be in electoral oblivion for at least 10 years, maybe 15.
The Conservative's victory will largely be down to the Labour Party's complete, utter and total ineptness. The current Tory party should be unelectable on any absolute basis, but relative to opposition....
Sorry, but I'll never get over this most plaintive of whines: "if you think the government is shit, blame the people who didn't vote for it!" It's a work of tragic beauty. Truly one for the ages.
Not sure why that means they've been so quiet so far though.
They probably judge that 2017’s initial onslaught against Corbyn was what helped him to consolidate the opposition, so they want to be more low key this time.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
There is nothing wrong with Rees Mogg's comments.
He apparently disagrees, if he's apologised. Not much point fighting for the General when he's already thrown in the towell.
Which was more costly; Getting Zaghari-Ratcliffe an extended prison sentence by not doing your homework or blaming the dead for being too stupid to get out of Grenfell Tower?
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
There is nothing wrong with Rees Mogg's comments.
So why did he apologise?
That question would be best put to him.
Sounds like a bad idea. It would just rile up those who don't think he should have.
I didn't realise I was fighting for anyone, I thought I was expressing my opinion.
And I didn't realise metaphors have to be taken literally, I thought it was understood they were not.
The point is even if we think person x's comments were acceptable, if person x says they were not acceptable it does at the least make it a harder argument, even though it does mean it is impossible.
It feels like proper bunfight between parties in a general election campaign. Arguing over debates. Sneaky Tax. Seems more a referendum on NHS than Brexit? Is it just me, or does it no longer feel like Parliament v the People? What happened to the Parliament v the people campaign?
More lies. Where was the unilateral exit in the original plan?
I don't engage with people who falsely accuse me of lying.
do you engage with people who correctly accuse you of lying ? :-)
If I can find any, yes of course.
I believe youre voting LD so shouldnt be a log wait
Ms Swinson has been doing an excellent job trying to dissuade me from voting LibDem.
How so, she seems to be doing OK form this ex-Tory's perspective. A little lightweight so far, but no more so than the alternatives.
She’s a bit lightweight, but compared to the bantamweights Corbo and Bunter, that’s okay. I like her. She seems like a nice lady. She does have the air of a primary school teacher, but that’s mostly the colourful dangly earrings. The opprobrium she attracts on here is bizarre.
Not that bizarre. Most posters on here are pale, male and stale. There is an undercurrent of jealousy, misogyny, and bullying at the prospect of a younger woman as party leader shouting the odds as though she was a normal politician.
Leaving aside the fuckwittery of Rees Mogg aside, what he said is actually an extremely dangerous position for a minister of the crown to take. In all sorts of areas we the General public rely implicitly on the advice given by the experts in the emergency or the public sector and often their safety and security depends on people listening to that advice and following it.
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
The deal is done if Johnson wins, of course, and Brexit is probably toast if he doesn't. But what I am talking about is his decision to rule out an extension of the transition period at the end of next year if a trade agreement has not been done with the EU. I cannot see the current iteration of the Conservative Party meekly accepting him reneging on that.
There is no point in taking any promises about timetable, no extensions etc. They are best ignored. The certainty is that Boris has no intention of leaving eithetr now or after a transition without a deal and never has had.
Comments
And we can join the EU again. We likely will given demographics. However I am not sure anti-Semitism will be put back in the bottle after Corbyn is PM.
Private hospitals now make about half their income from outsourced NHS surgery, mostly due to inadequate capacity in the NHS. As it is all done by Consultants with substantive NHS contracts, a requirement of admission rights in the private sector.
Boris agreed to a deal with a border down the Irish seas.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/nov/05/south-western-railway-staff-to-strike-for-nearly-all-of-december
Rail workers on one of Britain’s biggest commuter networks, South Western Railway, are set to go on strike for almost all of December.
The RMT union announced a total of 27 days of action for next month in the long-running dispute over the future role of guards on trains.</>
... in the GE this Thursday. Oh, wait...
Labour were 18% behind the Tories 37 days before the 2017 GE, just saying.
A close run thing but what they've both got in common is the arrogance of Old Etonians.
No we cannot.
Look at our current choice. Our system only allows one of two parties to triumph or a coalition every 30 to 40 years. So if we want to want to change our politicians, who do we chose? A bunch of increasingly right-wing nutters or the People's Revolutionary Front aka Corbyn's Labour?
It is no choice at all, so Brexit fails its raison d'etre and we stuck with a bunch of twerps no matter what we do.
It will take some months to put in place any changes and then a referendum legislation will take months plus a 22 weeks campaign
The whole process would drag on through most of 2020 with no certainty of outcome
"Why are these successive Conservative governments so shit?"
"It's Labour's fault"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50297164
I was thinking of using 'Labour are going to get beaten like morning wood' but I self censored myself.
The people who flocked to Corbyn will (rightly) blame the the people who flocked to May for this completely fucked up government.
Was that on Dom’s grid for today?
Only until after the election if you think it won’t start again then if they win then ".......
(1) The Tories (led by Stewart or Hammond) had campaigned on a 2nd referendum plus Remain platform on the basis of Cameron’s Deal+ (they’d looked at Leave, and couldn’t reach an agreement in the national interest they could in good faith recommend, so were pledging a new vote on a new - improved - Deal inside the EU instead)
(2) The Lib Dems were still led by Swinson but with no Tory defectors, just from Corbyn’s Labour
(3) Labour was the same current shitshow
(4) The Brexit Party was full-on billy bollocks for Brexit and led by Farage, going utterly apeshit about the Tory position
(5) Sturgeon was still the same and basically trying it on (again) with a 2nd indyref lush
Thoughts??
It's a great pity, of course, but politics is the art of the possible. Better to accept the inevitable.
Which of those options is easier for people to do? I think we know.
What's your thinking this time round?
Plus with my experience with sailors, any hole is a goal with them.
The Conservative's victory will largely be down to the Labour Party's complete, utter and total ineptness. The current Tory party should be unelectable on any absolute basis, but relative to opposition....
Sky News to investigate how tech is used and misused through the election with Under the Radar project."
https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-jo-swinson-has-a-facebook-problem-11855013
This is gold. Pure, pure gold.
What else can we blame Corbyn for? I see we have rain in some part of the country this bonfire night.
https://twitter.com/CRS_1972/status/1191764000775790592?s=20
It’s a show of union muscle.
It's a work of tragic beauty. Truly one for the ages.
The point is even if we think person x's comments were acceptable, if person x says they were not acceptable it does at the least make it a harder argument, even though it does mean it is impossible.
Is it just me, or does it no longer feel like Parliament v the People? What happened to the Parliament v the people campaign?
The Grenfell residents were clearly let down badly by following the advice, but even there it seems likely that the general advice was and is sound, is was the failure to change the advice in the terrible circumstances of the fire that was most to blame. For a Govt minister to, in effect, say that you should use ‘common sense’ and replace official advice with your own thoughts is incredibly dangerous, and has the potential to cause far more damage in the long run if people learn the “lessons” he is extolling.
He should resign.