Any examples? Links to Youtube or Facebook? Or even to descriptions? Most of the post-election commentary praised Labour's 2017 digital operation.
I was shown some of them by my nephews. They went on to vote Labour. What was most interesting about it was to see the brain-washing in operation; it was extremely effective even with intelligent and well-educated youngsters, albeit highly cynical.
The kinds of thing that were in the videos were very nasty insinuations about Theresa May and Grenfell, or implying that she took active delight in people committing suicide. Really, really nasty stuff.
Fortunately youngsters now seem to have become a bit more inured to Corbyn's charms; those I know all seem to be voting LibDem this time.
Any videos used in the 2017 election would not have mentioned Grenfell because the fire took place six days after polling day.
Not a great news day for the Tories. first J R_M reminds us why they're the nasty party then they hold back a report on Russia reminding us they're also the sleazy party
They’ve had a suboptimal start to the campaign, most certainly.
Eerily reminiscent of 2017. The Tories fire the starting gun, then are nowhere to be seen.
Their launch is tomorrow.
Fair enough but in the days between the HoC voting for an election and tomorrow, they've let Labour build up a head of steam. Again.
A short campaign benefits the Tories, holding off even a few days will benefit them. It also allows them to take a look at The Lib Dem and Lab approach before making any major announcements.
Not a great news day for the Tories. first J R_M reminds us why they're the nasty party then they hold back a report on Russia reminding us they're also the sleazy party
They’ve had a suboptimal start to the campaign, most certainly.
Listen to the Andrew Bridgen interview I've just posted . Even Richard Tyndall and Philip Thompson might stop genuflecting to their great leaders when they hear that.
Changing the discussion Richard. Poor show. Clearly because you have no answer for the main point which is that Hammond did all he could to hinder Brexit negotiations whilst Chancellor.
How can I have an answer to a point which is unmitigated garbage? When he was in government we had a very successful Brexit negotiation and would have left the EU on March 29th, if the nuttier leavers, chancers and a well-known careerist hadn't torpedoed things.
We got a terrible deal with an unacceptable backstop. We were told under him removing the backstop was never going to be an option.
Boris removed Hammonds intransigence to prepare properly and suddenly the backstop was able to be removed. Funny that!
Johnson did the right thing in giving the Irish what they wanted. In backing down and betraying the DUP he has also ensured that the UK has lost its last piece of leverage in the forthcoming trade negotiations. But that is the nature of Brexit, really.
This YouGov poll is better for Labour than at the same point before the last general election .
They had a 5 point lead then , this time they have a 10 point lead . Although things are different now re the background to that election I still expect Labour to increase their share of the vote in London over the coming weeks .
Do you have the absolute figures in both cases?
Yes YouGov had the following . That was published early May .
Changing the discussion Richard. Poor show. Clearly because you have no answer for the main point which is that Hammond did all he could to hinder Brexit negotiations whilst Chancellor.
How can I have an answer to a point which is unmitigated garbage? When he was in government we had a very successful Brexit negotiation and would have left the EU on March 29th, if the nuttier leavers, chancers and a well-known careerist hadn't torpedoed things.
We got a terrible deal with an unacceptable backstop. We were told under him removing the backstop was never going to be an option.
Boris removed Hammonds intransigence to prepare properly and suddenly the backstop was able to be removed. Funny that!
It was removed because Boris went to Varadkar and said he'd throw away everything he'd been saying a week before and accept the original EU plan, which the EU and the Republic preferred in the first place!
Any examples? Links to Youtube or Facebook? Or even to descriptions? Most of the post-election commentary praised Labour's 2017 digital operation.
I was shown some of them by my nephews. They went on to vote Labour. What was most interesting about it was to see the brain-washing in operation; it was extremely effective even with intelligent and well-educated youngsters, albeit highly cynical.
The kinds of thing that were in the videos were very nasty insinuations about Theresa May and Grenfell, or implying that she took active delight in people committing suicide. Really, really nasty stuff.
Fortunately youngsters now seem to have become a bit more inured to Corbyn's charms; those I know all seem to be voting LibDem this time.
Tell them to vote tactically anti-Tory if they live in the ~100-150 marginals, or they'll let in a Nasty Party govt. featuring ministers who want to send the poor to the workhouse (if not 'put them down'). There's very little risk of a Corbyn govt., only a Lab/LD/SNP pact.
Not sure that mentioning the SNP in a potential pact will play too well in England? Didn't help in 2015 iirc
The EU originally offered a unilateral exit from any special arrangements for Northern Ireland? When did they originally offer this, or are you making up nonsense because you are too far down the rabbit hole to admit Boris did better than you expected?
They offered almost exactly what Boris agreed to as their opening offer, with Michel Barnier making a big play about de-dramatising the regulatory requirements. True, at the end they gave Boris a fig-leaf of a theoretical unilateral exit from the NI arrangement, but no-one on this earth, literally no-one, thinks it's an exit which can ever actually happen in practice, so it's not exactly a major concession. The most significant thing from their point of view is that it removes the original backstop, which was so advantageous to us.
Only in your delusions was the backstop advantageous to us. The people calling for the backstop to be removed was Boris and the Brexiteers not Barnier and the EU. In fact they did quite the opposite.
Until you are willing to admit that removing the backstop was a victory not failure for a leader elected on a pledge to remove the backstop you just come across as bitter.
What a piece of work Andrew Bridgen is! Listen to his interview on the 5 o'clock news with Evan Davis explaining how he's a self made man in a mining constituency. A real 18th century cotton baron! That'll get played more than Rees Mogg.
The Boris campaign will be ruthless with Corbyn Labour, the May campaign was not and it showed.
One would hope that "ruthless" would stop short of doctoring film footage.
It's worked though, it's been watched by hundreds of thousands. Is it any worse than the Lib Dem fake polls or the Momentum propaganda? It's all shit but it all works to an extent.
I’m a lurker usually until election time, but first joined PBc back in the first year or two.
I can’t help but notice that the election campaign hasn’t even formally started yet, but the level of intemperate vituperation between posters has risen significantly in recent days.
I fear a number of you won’t make it to the finish line at this rate.
Please, despite our oft-passionately held convictions, can we remain civil and constructive?
Boris's home city too really, after all he was elected mayor there twice.
He was elected as a pro-business pro-EU Mayor.
My very left-wing sister-in-law who lived in London during his mayoralty finds the criticism of him as an extremist absurd because he was mayor and nothing bad or extreme happened. She's still not going to vote for him - because she's left wing. But an indication that among Londoners, perhaps the characterisation of him as an extremist doesn't stick so easily.
I think Londoners remember Johnson more for wasting taxpayers' money on assorted vanity projects while not really doing anything useful. Even the embracing of extreme policies like Brexit is I think only for his own personal benefit - I don't think anybody really thinks he believes in anything at all, beyond his own advancement.
Bit of a shocker for Labour in Corbyn's back yard. I expected the Tories to be doing worse in London than elsewhere but that doesn't appear to be the case if this poll is right.
As for Boris, Brexit was only going to be fine because Boris and his team massively ramped up no deal Brexit preparations which Hammond had neglected.
In other words, even in the view of the most demented Leavers, there was still time to make the preparations. So there can by definition not have been any 'neglect'.
Phil Hammond is a huge, huge loss to the party. I'm struggling to think of anything even remotely similar in half a century: from highly respected Chancellor to a pariah in his own party, of which he'd been a member for 45 years, in a matter of weeks.
Ken Clarke was treated similarly. From working for Ted Heath, to high office, to almost becoming PM, to this.
I'm sorry that he didn't stand once again.
Good riddance to Hammond. He is in part the reason we are in the mess we are in now with his constant refusal to accept the result of the referendum and plan for all contingencies.
Way back in 2017 he was making it clear in public that he would not fund no deal planning which meant that there was no way the Government could look serious when negotiating with the EU. If you make it clear you are going to surrender from the start then you have no negotiating position.
He is no loss.
But you Leavers said No Deal was Project Fear and would never happen because we held all the cards and the EU needed us more than we needed them.
Why waste money on something that Leave said would never happen?
Nope you are lying again TSE. Some of us have said all along that every type of Leave was a possibility. Indeed the very fact I was pushing so hard for an EEA Leave was because others were advocating WTO Brexits.
If you are going to take part in these arguments at least try to avoid telling porkies.
I'm talking about the Leave campaign, not no marks like you on the internet.
The difference being that I know I am a nobody and am happy to point it out on here regularly.
You on the other hand have delusions of grandeur way above your status. I can only assume you type very short replies because you are doing it with only one hand whilst the other encourages your undeserved self worth.
The EU originally offered a unilateral exit from any special arrangements for Northern Ireland? When did they originally offer this, or are you making up nonsense because you are too far down the rabbit hole to admit Boris did better than you expected?
They offered almost exactly what Boris agreed to as their opening offer, with Michel Barnier making a big play about de-dramatising the regulatory requirements. True, at the end they gave Boris a fig-leaf of a theoretical unilateral exit from the NI arrangement, but no-one on this earth, literally no-one, thinks it's an exit which can ever actually happen in practice, so it's not exactly a major concession. The most significant thing from their point of view is that it removes the original backstop, which was so advantageous to us.
Only in your delusions was the backstop advantageous to us. The people calling for the backstop to be removed was Boris and the Brexiteers not Barnier and the EU. In fact they did quite the opposite.
Until you are willing to admit that removing the backstop was a victory not failure for a leader elected on a pledge to remove the backstop you just come across as bitter.
Bit of a shocker for Labour in Corbyn's back yard. I expected the Tories to be doing worse in London than elsewhere but that doesn't appear to be the case if this poll is right.
In absolute terms, the Tories are doing badly. This is their smallest London vote shares since 2001. It's just that the Conservative vote is much more efficiently distributed now.
Bit of a shocker for Labour in Corbyn's back yard. I expected the Tories to be doing worse in London than elsewhere but that doesn't appear to be the case if this poll is right.
I suspect many Londoners have pleasant memories of his mayoralty - I certainly do. Home city boost for Boris blunting Labour's edge?
Any examples? Links to Youtube or Facebook? Or even to descriptions? Most of the post-election commentary praised Labour's 2017 digital operation.
I was shown some of them by my nephews. They went on to vote Labour. What was most interesting about it was to see the brain-washing in operation; it was extremely effective even with intelligent and well-educated youngsters, albeit highly cynical.
The kinds of thing that were in the videos were very nasty insinuations about Theresa May and Grenfell, or implying that she took active delight in people committing suicide. Really, really nasty stuff.
Fortunately youngsters now seem to have become a bit more inured to Corbyn's charms; those I know all seem to be voting LibDem this time.
Tell them to vote tactically anti-Tory if they live in the ~100-150 marginals, or they'll let in a Nasty Party govt. featuring ministers who want to send the poor to the workhouse (if not 'put them down'). There's very little risk of a Corbyn govt., only a Lab/LD/SNP pact.
Not sure that mentioning the SNP in a potential pact will play too well in England? Didn't help in 2015 iirc
However, that may have been at the time of 'Chaos with Ed Miliband' and before 'Strong and Stable' became seen as rather Weak and Wobbly
Bit of a shocker for Labour in Corbyn's back yard. I expected the Tories to be doing worse in London than elsewhere but that doesn't appear to be the case if this poll is right.
According to Roger and several others on here Labour are making all the running and everyone hates the Tories already. Go figure. Of course the polls may tighten.... or they may not. The level of hysteria from some posters is ridiculous at this stage.
I’m a lurker usually until election time, but first joined PBc back in the first year or two.
I can’t help but notice that the election campaign hasn’t even formally started yet, but the level of intemperate vituperation between posters has risen significantly in recent days.
I fear a number of you won’t make it to the finish line at this rate.
Please, despite our oft-passionately held convictions, can we remain civil and constructive?
As for Boris, Brexit was only going to be fine because Boris and his team massively ramped up no deal Brexit preparations which Hammond had neglected.
In other words, even in the view of the most demented Leavers, there was still time to make the preparations. So there can by definition not have been any 'neglect'.
Phil Hammond is a huge, huge loss to the party. I'm struggling to think of anything even remotely similar in half a century: from highly respected Chancellor to a pariah in his own party, of which he'd been a member for 45 years, in a matter of weeks.
Ken Clarke was treated similarly. From working for Ted Heath, to high office, to almost becoming PM, to this.
I'm sorry that he didn't stand once again.
Good riddance to Hammond. He is in part the reason we are in the mess we are in now with his constant refusal to accept the result of the referendum and plan for all contingencies.
Way back in 2017 he was making it clear in public that he would not fund no deal planning which meant that there was no way the Government could look serious when negotiating with the EU. If you make it clear you are going to surrender from the start then you have no negotiating position.
He is no loss.
But you Leavers said No Deal was Project Fear and would never happen because we held all the cards and the EU needed us more than we needed them.
Why waste money on something that Leave said would never happen?
Nope you are lying again TSE. Some of us have said all along that every type of Leave was a possibility. Indeed the very fact I was pushing so hard for an EEA Leave was because others were advocating WTO Brexits.
If you are going to take part in these arguments at least try to avoid telling porkies.
I'm talking about the Leave campaign, not no marks like you on the internet.
The difference being that I know I am a nobody and am happy to point it out on here regularly.
You on the other hand have delusions of grandeur way above your status. I can only assume you type very short replies because you are doing it with only one hand whilst the other encourages your undeserved self worth.
I'm a modest man with a great deal to be modest about.
Anyone can make a deal if they ditch their red lines . Bozo capitulated because he was desperate to meet his stupid pledge , threw the DUP under a bus and then was paraded as a hero by the right wing press .
If May had cut his deal she would have been trashed by the ERG and the same press . May cared about the Union for all her faults . All Bozo cares about is himself .
Bit of a shocker for Labour in Corbyn's back yard. I expected the Tories to be doing worse in London than elsewhere but that doesn't appear to be the case if this poll is right.
Much like 2005 the Tories will gain seats from Labour in London mainly due to a LD surge
Not a great news day for the Tories. first J R_M reminds us why they're the nasty party then they hold back a report on Russia reminding us they're also the sleazy party
They’ve had a suboptimal start to the campaign, most certainly.
Eerily reminiscent of 2017. The Tories fire the starting gun, then are nowhere to be seen.
Their launch is tomorrow.
Fair enough but in the days between the HoC voting for an election and tomorrow, they've let Labour build up a head of steam. Again.
I'm not actually sure about this one. What exactly have Labour achieved in a week that the Tories seem to have taken off as a pre-election holiday? They've whined about the NHS and reminded everyone of what a mess their Brexit "policy" is. The few points they've recovered from LDs / Greens / whoever seem to be more of a Pavlovian reaction to an FPTP election being called than anything else.
Changing the discussion Richard. Poor show. Clearly because you have no answer for the main point which is that Hammond did all he could to hinder Brexit negotiations whilst Chancellor.
How can I have an answer to a point which is unmitigated garbage? When he was in government we had a very successful Brexit negotiation and would have left the EU on March 29th, if the nuttier leavers, chancers and a well-known careerist hadn't torpedoed things.
We got a terrible deal with an unacceptable backstop. We were told under him removing the backstop was never going to be an option.
Boris removed Hammonds intransigence to prepare properly and suddenly the backstop was able to be removed. Funny that!
It was removed because Boris went to Varadkar and said he'd throw away everything he'd been saying a week before and accept the original EU plan, which the EU and the Republic preferred in the first place!
More lies. Where was the unilateral exit in the original plan?
Mr. Tyndall, it's better to play the ball than the man. I was just about to remonstrate Mr. Eagles (not least for the logical fallacy of getting in a retaliation first) and you go and prove him right.
Mr. 67, May brought her deal to the Commons repeatedly. They had every chance to back it, either with or without a referendum amendment.
My very left-wing sister-in-law who lived in London during his mayoralty finds the criticism of him as an extremist absurd because he was mayor and nothing bad or extreme happened. She's still not going to vote for him - because she's left wing. But an indication that among Londoners, perhaps the characterisation of him as an extremist doesn't stick so easily.
Boris Johnson is no extremist. There is no evidence for that whatsoever. The problem is a total absence of principle, either political or personal. He believes in nothing other than the promotion of brand Boris Johnson. I hate it, personally, the idea of a PM with no real sense of public service, but perhaps it doesn't matter so very much if what is good for him happens to also be good for the country. But I'm not convinced of this either. So all told, I am unlikely to vote Con this time.
I’m a lurker usually until election time, but first joined PBc back in the first year or two.
I can’t help but notice that the election campaign hasn’t even formally started yet, but the level of intemperate vituperation between posters has risen significantly in recent days.
I fear a number of you won’t make it to the finish line at this rate.
Please, despite our oft-passionately held convictions, can we remain civil and constructive?
+1
I find that reciting the first lines of 'A Tale of Two Cities' is very useful in providing perspective and calming the temper. 'It was the best of times....etc'
They could have been written for today. What a towering genius Dickens was.
My very left-wing sister-in-law who lived in London during his mayoralty finds the criticism of him as an extremist absurd because he was mayor and nothing bad or extreme happened. She's still not going to vote for him - because she's left wing. But an indication that among Londoners, perhaps the characterisation of him as an extremist doesn't stick so easily.
Boris Johnson is no extremist. There is no evidence for that whatsoever. The problem is a total absence of principle, either political or personal. He believes in nothing other than the promotion of brand Boris Johnson. I hate it, personally, the idea of a PM with no real sense of public service, but perhaps it doesn't matter so very much if what is good for him happens to also be good for the country. But I'm not convinced of this either. So all told, I am unlikely to vote Con this time.
The EU originally offered a unilateral exit from any special arrangements for Northern Ireland? When did they originally offer this, or are you making up nonsense because you are too far down the rabbit hole to admit Boris did better than you expected?
They offered almost exactly what Boris agreed to as their opening offer, with Michel Barnier making a big play about de-dramatising the regulatory requirements. True, at the end they gave Boris a fig-leaf of a theoretical unilateral exit from the NI arrangement, but no-one on this earth, literally no-one, thinks it's an exit which can ever actually happen in practice, so it's not exactly a major concession. The most significant thing from their point of view is that it removes the original backstop, which was so advantageous to us.
Only in your delusions was the backstop advantageous to us. The people calling for the backstop to be removed was Boris and the Brexiteers not Barnier and the EU. In fact they did quite the opposite.
Until you are willing to admit that removing the backstop was a victory not failure for a leader elected on a pledge to remove the backstop you just come across as bitter.
This is really quite sweet.
The EU “conceded” by agreeing to remove the U.K. wide provision which the U.K. had insisted upon and won after lengthy negotiation (for free!) when the EU had only ever insisted on arrangements specific to Northern Ireland. Bargain!
More lies. Where was the unilateral exit in the original plan?
I don't engage with people who falsely accuse me of lying.
I apologise.
I may have gotten a bit heated there considering I believe you used the word delusional earlier so I'm sorry I said that.
Let me rephrase. I do not recall there being a unilateral exit in the original EU plan. Either you or I must be mistaken can you please point out where the unilateral exit was in the EU's original plan or is this deal different to it?
Apologies if already covered, but I asked YouGov when they planned to release their MRP model for the GE, and they said two weeks before polling day, but this was subject to change.
Apologies if already covered, but I asked YouGov when they planned to release their MRP model for the GE, and they said two weeks before polling day, but this was subject to change.
I'm not actually sure about this one. What exactly have Labour achieved in a week that the Tories seem to have taken off as a pre-election holiday? They've whined about the NHS and reminded everyone of what a mess their Brexit "policy" is. The few points they've recovered from LDs / Greens / whoever seem to be more of a Pavlovian reaction to an FPTP election being called than anything else.
I think they might have opened up a chink for the Tories, and perhaps the LibDems, to attack them on the NHS. I'm referring to their stated policy of wanting to bring all NHS provision in house. Currently around 6% of elective surgery is sub-contracted by the NHS to private hospitals, and some of those at least have a very good reputation. For example, in my area the Horder Centre is widely used for things like hip replacements, and is reckoned to be really good. A lot of people will either have been treated in such hospitals, or will have friends and relatives who have. A well-targeted and well-researched campaign saying that 'Labour want to shut XXX', where XXX is a well-regarded local facility like that, might be quite effective, if the Conservatives get it right.
More lies. Where was the unilateral exit in the original plan?
I don't engage with people who falsely accuse me of lying.
I apologise.
I may have gotten a bit heated there considering I believe you used the word delusional earlier so I'm sorry I said that.
Let me rephrase. I do not recall there being a unilateral exit in the original EU plan. Either you or I must be mistaken can you please point out where the unilateral exit was in the EU's original plan or is this deal different to it?
Apology accepted.
I've already addressed that point - yes, you are right that there wasn't a unilateral exit, but the broad point stands, that in structure this is the original EU proposal for handling the Irish issue. The unilateral exit has been added as a fig-leaf to help get the deal; it's purely theoretical, so not a big concession.
I'm not actually sure about this one. What exactly have Labour achieved in a week that the Tories seem to have taken off as a pre-election holiday? They've whined about the NHS and reminded everyone of what a mess their Brexit "policy" is. The few points they've recovered from LDs / Greens / whoever seem to be more of a Pavlovian reaction to an FPTP election being called than anything else.
I think they might have opened up a chink for the Tories, and perhaps the LibDems, to attack them on the NHS. I'm referring to their stated policy of wanting to bring all NHS provision in house. Currently around 6% of elective surgery is sub-contracted by the NHS to private hospitals, and some of those at least have a very good reputation. For example, in my area the Horder Centre is widely used for things like hip replacements, and is reckoned to be really good. A lot of people will either have been treated in such hospitals, or will have friends and relatives who have. A well-targeted and well-researched campaign saying that 'Labour want to shut XXX', where XXX is a well-regarded local facility like that, might be quite effective, if the Conservatives get it right.
And what about things like MRI scans etc? Often done by private units based in NHS hospitals. Are they going to confiscate the machines?
Of course GP practices are, and remain, independent operations...
I could be persuaded with the right leader and policy platform. David Gauke, say, and a manifesto which promises a full-on assault on all forms of privilege and vested interest.
There are people in all parties who should be kept well away from the airwaves during campaigns - for balance I would place folk like Abbott, Farron and Bridgen in that category.
I'm not actually sure about this one. What exactly have Labour achieved in a week that the Tories seem to have taken off as a pre-election holiday? They've whined about the NHS and reminded everyone of what a mess their Brexit "policy" is. The few points they've recovered from LDs / Greens / whoever seem to be more of a Pavlovian reaction to an FPTP election being called than anything else.
I think they might have opened up a chink for the Tories, and perhaps the LibDems, to attack them on the NHS. I'm referring to their stated policy of wanting to bring all NHS provision in house. Currently around 6% of elective surgery is sub-contracted by the NHS to private hospitals, and some of those at least have a very good reputation. For example, in my area the Horder Centre is widely used for things like hip replacements, and is reckoned to be really good. A lot of people will either have been treated in such hospitals, or will have friends and relatives who have. A well-targeted and well-researched campaign saying that 'Labour want to shut XXX', where XXX is a well-regarded local facility like that, might be quite effective, if the Conservatives get it right.
And what about things like MRI scans etc? Often done by private units based in NHS hospitals. Are they going to confiscate the machines?
Oh, absolutely, but for political purposes those are less useful because they are not named, recognisable facilities to which people won't have access under Labour's plan.
And people wonder why ex-Tories like me thing the party has been taken over by fuckwits! You really could not make it up! The only reason Labour isn't 20 points ahead is because they have chosen an even more cretinous individual to lead them!
I'm not actually sure about this one. What exactly have Labour achieved in a week that the Tories seem to have taken off as a pre-election holiday? They've whined about the NHS and reminded everyone of what a mess their Brexit "policy" is. The few points they've recovered from LDs / Greens / whoever seem to be more of a Pavlovian reaction to an FPTP election being called than anything else.
I think they might have opened up a chink for the Tories, and perhaps the LibDems, to attack them on the NHS. I'm referring to their stated policy of wanting to bring all NHS provision in house. Currently around 6% of elective surgery is sub-contracted by the NHS to private hospitals, and some of those at least have a very good reputation. For example, in my area the Horder Centre is widely used for things like hip replacements, and is reckoned to be really good. A lot of people will either have been treated in such hospitals, or will have friends and relatives who have. A well-targeted and well-researched campaign saying that 'Labour want to shut XXX', where XXX is a well-regarded local facility like that, might be quite effective, if the Conservatives get it right.
Wishful thinking I think. Most people will see that wanting to bring services in-house ≠ wanting to shut services down.
Any examples? Links to Youtube or Facebook? Or even to descriptions? Most of the post-election commentary praised Labour's 2017 digital operation.
I was shown some of them by my nephews. They went on to vote Labour. What was most interesting about it was to see the brain-washing in operation; it was extremely effective even with intelligent and well-educated youngsters, albeit highly cynical.
The kinds of thing that were in the videos were very nasty insinuations about Theresa May and Grenfell, or implying that she took active delight in people committing suicide. Really, really nasty stuff.
Fortunately youngsters now seem to have become a bit more inured to Corbyn's charms; those I know all seem to be voting LibDem this time.
Tell them to vote tactically anti-Tory if they live in the ~100-150 marginals, or they'll let in a Nasty Party govt. featuring ministers who want to send the poor to the workhouse (if not 'put them down'). There's very little risk of a Corbyn govt., only a Lab/LD/SNP pact.
No-one of integrity should vote Labour for as long as it is run by anti-Semitic, terrorist-supporting, economy-destroying Corbyn.
The current PM said F*** Business. Brexit is for life, not just for Xmas. A govt's only for 4-5 years.
The chances of a Labour majority are about zero. The betting odds are probably ~50, i.e. highly improbable. Any Corbyn victory would be neutered by the SDP wing. Unlike the rather striking cull of One-Nation Tories, there hasn't been a similar cull of the Labour right incl Benn or Cooper although some who were probably always more at home in a Centre Party have ended up as L.Dems.
Any examples? Links to Youtube or Facebook? Or even to descriptions? Most of the post-election commentary praised Labour's 2017 digital operation.
I was shown some of them by my nephews. They went on to vote Labour. What was most interesting about it was to see the brain-washing in operation; it was extremely effective even with intelligent and well-educated youngsters, albeit highly cynical.
The kinds of thing that were in the videos were very nasty insinuations about Theresa May and Grenfell, or implying that she took active delight in people committing suicide. Really, really nasty stuff.
Fortunately youngsters now seem to have become a bit more inured to Corbyn's charms; those I know all seem to be voting LibDem this time.
Tell them to vote tactically anti-Tory if they live in the ~100-150 marginals, or they'll let in a Nasty Party govt. featuring ministers who want to send the poor to the workhouse (if not 'put them down'). There's very little risk of a Corbyn govt., only a Lab/LD/SNP pact.
Not sure that mentioning the SNP in a potential pact will play too well in England? Didn't help in 2015 iirc
However, that may have been at the time of 'Chaos with Ed Miliband' and before 'Strong and Stable' became seen as rather Weak and Wobbly
Let's see. Personally I can't see a Corbyn/Sturgeon (or whoever) alliance being overly popular with English voters outside metroland but I may be wrong.
That Bridgen interview is extraordinary. The deference he shows to Rees Moog boils down to the cringe so many Brits have when confronted with a crisp, home counties accent. The assumption that well-spoken equals smart has caused the UK so much trouble over the years and continues to do so.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
And people wonder why ex-Tories like me thing the party has been taken over by fuckwits! You really could not make it up! The only reason Labour isn't 20 points ahead is because they have chosen an even more cretinous individual to lead them!
No this is a non event being inflated by media and opponents that will be forgotten in a couple of days time. It's the kind of thing that makes me wish I could hibernate until election day.
And people wonder why ex-Tories like me thing the party has been taken over by fuckwits! You really could not make it up! The only reason Labour isn't 20 points ahead is because they have chosen an even more cretinous individual to lead them!
Bear in mind that this stupid plan to hand Boris a majority was kicked off by the Lib Dems. They should have sat on their hands until January and let Boris stew.
That Bridgen interview is extraordinary. The deference he shows to Rees Moog boils down to the cringe so many Brits have when confronted with a crisp, home counties accent. The assumption that well-spoken equals smart has caused the UK so much trouble over the years and continues to do so.
Indeed so. Cap-doffing is a rather disturbing trait.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
And people wonder why ex-Tories like me thing the party has been taken over by fuckwits! You really could not make it up! The only reason Labour isn't 20 points ahead is because they have chosen an even more cretinous individual to lead them!
No this is a non event being inflated by media and opponents that will be forgotten in a couple of days time. It's the kind of thing that makes me wish I could hibernate until election day.
It is not a non-event when it seems to illustrate perfectly what used to be regarded as parodies of Tory politicians. The parodies are now real. This idiot and Rees-Mogg are the new face of the Conservative In Name Only Party
And people wonder why ex-Tories like me thing the party has been taken over by fuckwits! You really could not make it up! The only reason Labour isn't 20 points ahead is because they have chosen an even more cretinous individual to lead them!
No this is a non event being inflated by media and opponents that will be forgotten in a couple of days time. It's the kind of thing that makes me wish I could hibernate until election day.
What will hurt any party's chances is if there is a drip, drip, drip of this kind of stupidity.
For what it's worth (not much) I think the Tories have the largest stock of drips.
How so, she seems to be doing OK form this ex-Tory's perspective. A little lightweight so far, but no more so than the alternatives.
It's things like:
- Trying to tack votes for children and votes for foreigners onto an election scheduled for a few weeks' time. I'm against both, but could live with those as policies to at least consider, but it strikes me as mad to try to introduce them with zero thought as an amendment to a bill setting a date for an election - or, worse, as gerrymandering.
- Then the utter silliness about the 9th December vs the 12th December. I mean, that's the kind of childishness I expect from the SNP, not from a party seriously wanting my vote.
- And then they even managed to vote against the election which a couple of days earlier they'd asked for. She should leave that sort of loony inconsistency to Labour, who have that market sewn up.
- And then the utterly bonkers whinge that she was excluded from the TV debates because of sexism. The LibDems just about might have had a very weak case for wanting to be included, and certainly I would expect them to say they should be included, but blaming it on sexism is barmy.
Jean-Claude Juncker says he doesn't think it’s realistic for Jeremy Corbyn to negotiate a new Brexit deal if Labour wins the election, but says it’d be a decision for the incoming EC president
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
It's not the big tent politics that the defenders of FPTP tell us it creates. A whole section of the Tory party has now been expunged.
It's massively more ideological and dramatic than anything that's happened within Labour, despite all the excited media commentary about the potential for deselections.
Philip Hammond facing the inevitability of oblivion today. It is startling to add up what happened to the cabinet May chose to negotiate Brexit. Damien Green, David Lidington, Philip Hammond, Amber Rudd, Justine Greening, David Gauke, no doubt others. It is an incredible changing of the guard and it is hard not to conclude that when May had control exactly the same thing could have happened to the ERG loons who made her life such a misery, if only she had had the courage to take them on.
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
I am not sure about that. It will certainly be a lot more right wing, which makes any further Johnson climbdowns in the ongoing negotiations with the EU very tricky indeed. How many would tolerate Johnson reneging on his promise not to extend the transition period, for example?
I see 3 possible scenarios at the moment. The central one is that Boris wins a modest majority on the back of his deal. The deal goes through the Commons. The second possibility is that Boris wins massively. I still think he does the deal but the risk of some self indulgent nonsense based on no deal or (more likely) an extreme position taken during the transition is a possibility. The third possibility is that he does not get a majority in which case Brexit is dead.
Comments
(they were all the same man, James Callaghan)
Labour 41
Tory 36
Lib Dem 14
UKIP 6
Green 3
At the GE the result for top 3.
Labour 54
Tory 33
Lib Dem 9
Didn't help in 2015 iirc
Until you are willing to admit that removing the backstop was a victory not failure for a leader elected on a pledge to remove the backstop you just come across as bitter.
He's Prince Edward.
I can’t help but notice that the election campaign hasn’t even formally started yet, but the level of intemperate vituperation between posters has risen significantly in recent days.
I fear a number of you won’t make it to the finish line at this rate.
Please, despite our oft-passionately held convictions, can we remain civil and constructive?
For that he deserves immense gratitude. Compared to the majority of the Tory party who were spineless lobby fodder .
You on the other hand have delusions of grandeur way above your status. I can only assume you type very short replies because you are doing it with only one hand whilst the other encourages your undeserved self worth.
Yes, all sides are guilty of this to one extent or another at various times, but we have to fix it together or we all suffer.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit/ed-miliband-changes-his-twitter-name-to-mock-chaos-in-the-tory-party-501375
If May had cut his deal she would have been trashed by the ERG and the same press . May cared about the Union for all her faults . All Bozo cares about is himself .
Mr. Tyndall, it's better to play the ball than the man. I was just about to remonstrate Mr. Eagles (not least for the logical fallacy of getting in a retaliation first) and you go and prove him right.
Mr. 67, May brought her deal to the Commons repeatedly. They had every chance to back it, either with or without a referendum amendment.
They could have been written for today. What a towering genius Dickens was.
I may have gotten a bit heated there considering I believe you used the word delusional earlier so I'm sorry I said that.
Let me rephrase. I do not recall there being a unilateral exit in the original EU plan. Either you or I must be mistaken can you please point out where the unilateral exit was in the EU's original plan or is this deal different to it?
The SOPN is published a week on Friday, so I'd expect a MRP probably the week beginning the 26th of November.
I've already addressed that point - yes, you are right that there wasn't a unilateral exit, but the broad point stands, that in structure this is the original EU proposal for handling the Irish issue. The unilateral exit has been added as a fig-leaf to help get the deal; it's purely theoretical, so not a big concession.
✔️#BackBoris’ deal to #GetBrexitDone
✔️Back ‘No Deal’ if Withdrawal Agreement still not approved by 31st January
#StandUp4Brexit https://t.co/OSyMB3P65s
Of course GP practices are, and remain, independent operations...
Labour likely to go for the four-day week?
Tories likely to go for the £80k higher rate threshold?
(The latter would put £500 a month in my pocket - which would at least lessen the blow of a Bunter majority)
And he is a fellow poster on PB
https://briefingsforbrexit.com/this-flawed-deal-is-a-tolerable-price-to-pay-for-our-freedom/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/05/dont-sign-pledges-on-nhs-or-climate-tory-hq-tells-candidates
The chances of a Labour majority are about zero. The betting odds are probably ~50, i.e. highly improbable. Any Corbyn victory would be neutered by the SDP wing. Unlike the rather striking cull of One-Nation Tories, there hasn't been a similar cull of the Labour right incl Benn or Cooper although some who were probably always more at home in a Centre Party have ended up as L.Dems.
the nanny knows best approach just makes me switch off
(He is however a ‘multiple screen namer’ - a noble calling albeit one that was frowned upon by some PBers in times past)
Boris got a lot of flak for excluding the 21 from the party but there is no question that the next Tory party, whether in government or out of it, is going to be more cohesive and reliable in its voting.
It's the kind of thing that makes me wish I could hibernate until election day.
Scottish man gets a rocket from health and safety chiefs after injuring himself launching a firework from his BOTTOM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7649797/Scottish-man-filmed-launching-firework-BOTTOM.html
PS - Am I doing this clickbait malarkey right?
https://rcni.com/nursing-standard/newsroom/news/bristol-trust-launches-red-card-scheme-to-deal-racist-abuse-patients-154746
For what it's worth (not much) I think the Tories have the largest stock of drips.
They may do the trick.
- Trying to tack votes for children and votes for foreigners onto an election scheduled for a few weeks' time. I'm against both, but could live with those as policies to at least consider, but it strikes me as mad to try to introduce them with zero thought as an amendment to a bill setting a date for an election - or, worse, as gerrymandering.
- Then the utter silliness about the 9th December vs the 12th December. I mean, that's the kind of childishness I expect from the SNP, not from a party seriously wanting my vote.
- And then they even managed to vote against the election which a couple of days earlier they'd asked for. She should leave that sort of loony inconsistency to Labour, who have that market sewn up.
- And then the utterly bonkers whinge that she was excluded from the TV debates because of sexism. The LibDems just about might have had a very weak case for wanting to be included, and certainly I would expect them to say they should be included, but blaming it on sexism is barmy.
Jean-Claude Juncker says he doesn't think it’s realistic for Jeremy Corbyn to negotiate a new Brexit deal if Labour wins the election, but says it’d be a decision for the incoming EC president
https://t.co/s8AVIRRXNV https://t.co/mTzcqMVc5P
It's massively more ideological and dramatic than anything that's happened within Labour, despite all the excited media commentary about the potential for deselections.
Not even going to try any more. What are the web designers (and the advertisers) thinking?!
Yes indeed.