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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » MPs back the deal but block the timetable

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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    RobD said:

    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?

    I need to remind everybody of my conspiracy theory: that Johnson is a malevolent individual deliberately pursuing no-deal in order to generate anti-EU feeling and wage a culture war. I know it sounds outre, but it fits the facts... :(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Another vote O'Mara has shown up for, he's on a roll!

    Hang on - I thought this bloke was supposed to be resigning over a month ago...
    Changed his mind.spoke to his bank manager.
    FTFY
    I didn't say why he changed his mind!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Has anyone asked Corbyn about how Labour plan to support the government in order to avoid a GE?

    Has anyone asked the SNP under what circumstances they might support a democratic vote?

    Has anyone asked the LDs what they understand by democracy?

    There are some very nasty politicians in our times. Boris isn't one of them.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    Corbyn is a divisive and abusive bully who has never clarified in his own mind what he wants or how to get it. He is also a serial liar and populist comparable to Trump.

    He is not trying to deal with the mess. He is trying to exploit it. He is also failing because he isn’t very bright and has no idea what to do.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    edited October 2019

    Scott_P said:

    Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?

    If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?

    BoZo secured the deal with the EU by putting a border in the Irish sea
    So people who voted against May's Deal have now voted against the BorisDeal.

    No change there then and nobody been ditched.
    But Bozo went DUP conference and promised that there would be no customs border in the Irish Sea. And then met Vradakar and agreed to put a customs border in the Irish Sea. A complete betrayal. Even May was not that brazen.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    TudorRose said:

    RobD said:

    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?

    There was some pressure (by Tories and LabLeave MPs) on JRM to table a timetable motion tomorrow morning to get the committee stage started tomorrow and then work through the weekend to get everything through by Monday next week. He said an emphatic no, which makes me think the Government has 'a cunning plan'....
    Unless they are waiting on developments on the hotline to Dublin berlin and Paris tonight
    Could be, but there was something about how firmly JRM insisted that it would be the Queeen's Speech debate this week that makes me think someone has wargamed this and has a plan. Interestingly Boris didn't repeat leaving on the 31st October in his response to the defeat.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828
    .

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    A second referendum will not bring the country together.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,359

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    He's the only adult anti-semite in the room, I'll let you have that.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    So tonight johnson will speak to Varadkar, Macron and Merkel and theyll tell him what extension is getting given, he will tell them when he thinks he can get it through and tomorrow we will have a clearer picture.
    Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates

    31st December? That is not a good idea.
    Why not?

    (Setting aside that exit is not a good idea full stop!)
    An event of this magnitude that is also contentious could see protests / celebrations with a small chance of disorder. If that, and/or unexpected border issues arise at ports or in Northern Ireland, you want the emergency services to be able to focus on that. But 31st December is already a busy day for policing most years. It wouldn't be a good idea to make them coincide when it's easy enough to keep them separate. And since you can't move New Year, Brexiting exactly then would be taking unnecessary risks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,894
    murali_s said:

    Floater said:

    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
    so, your Labour voters in the north and midlands... you are calling all of them xenophobes are you?
    This whole idea that Labour voters are Leavers is bullshit - the overwhelming majority of Labour voters wherever they are voted Remain.

    This myth needs to be busted asap.
    Hmm I think there's lots of labour leavers up here. Flint reselected by her CLP is interesting to note..
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Scott_P said:

    So people who voted against May's Deal have now voted against the BorisDeal.

    No change there then and nobody been ditched.

    The DUP previously voted with the Tories on other Government business.

    BoZo may yet lose his queen's Speech and budget after ditching the DUP.
    As Boris wants an election that shouldn't be of too much concern.

    And being big mates with the DUP might be a vote winner in Scotland but it isn't in England.
    Only in some parts of Scotland, the DUP bit I mean, as opposed to the wider unionist shtick. Which puts the Scots Tories in a big quandary, the more the Cabinet bigs up the special luxurious position of NI compared to Scotland. Especially if you are a fisherman or a farmer.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday

    How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
    In theory it could be two weeks if that's all the EU offer and the HoC approves their offer.

    Not. Happening.
    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.
    And if they did refuse it, we no deal on halloween, there is no safety net unless they vote to revoke
    No he can’t he would be in contempt of court and probably parliament. This parliament will never no deal it would revoke before it happened. Johnson won’t fancy being incarcerated in the clock tower so he will take the extension. Silly bastard should have asked for the extension let the debate run it’s course and see what happens but he didnt
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,121
    We've got it wrong about Dominic Cummings. He isn't in 10 Downing St to win votes in the House, he's not there to get Brexit over the line swiftly and he's certainly not there to make friends. He's there as an election strategist. All the feints and parries as the anonymous spokesman, they aren't there to get the DUP or Lisa Nandy on side, they are there to pinch votes off BXP and box LAB into a corner.

    I know you can't Baxter the polls accurately but the Conservative party has gone from being -40 at the polls to +140 in less than ninety days.

    Is Dominic Cummings swinging two seats a day for CON?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Omnium said:

    There are some very nasty politicians in our times. Boris isn't one of them.

    :D
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    He's the only adult anti-semite in the room, I'll let you have that.
    Why whats he said?

    Not said what JRM said surely
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Scott_P said:
    Three weeks? Is this a clue to the length of the extension?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    TudorRose said:

    Scott_P said:
    Three weeks? Is this a clue to the length of the extension?
    I think it's a clue that Guy has got his weeks and months muddled :wink:
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    RobD said:

    .

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    A second referendum will not bring the country together.
    Nothing will
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Tonight's Delta Poll giving the Tories a 13% lead implies - on a UNS basis - 48 gains from Labour offset by 12 losses to the LDs and circa 8 to SNP. That leaves them on 346 seats - a majority of 42.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114
    nichomar said:

    RobD said:

    .

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    A second referendum will not bring the country together.
    Nothing will
    Damn right comrade...we've fucked ourselves for a generation....about as long as it takes before we re-join the EU
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is insanity.
    I've no time for Murray at all, but he has a big personal vote in that seat, and would be the last man standing at a GE.

    Morningside matrons aren't about to vote for whichever scruffy Corbynite Unite are hoping to dredge up.
    About his personal vote: quite a few Cons and LDs voted for him to keep the ScotNat out.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828

    Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
    clause 3, section 4?

    (4)Nothing in this section shall prevent the Prime Minister from agreeing to an extension of the period specified in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union otherwise than in accordance with this section.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited October 2019
    RobD said:

    .

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    A second referendum will not bring the country together.
    Nothing will, as nichomar notes. What has least worst impact is the question.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    murali_s said:

    Floater said:

    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
    so, your Labour voters in the north and midlands... you are calling all of them xenophobes are you?
    This whole idea that Labour voters are Leavers is bullshit - the overwhelming majority of Labour voters wherever they are voted Remain.

    This myth needs to be busted asap.
    Pushing leave voting Labour supporters into moving to the Tories in order to secure Brexit might not be the best long term strategy for Labour. To be fair they might as well abandon their fence sitting strategy as most Leavers have rightly seen it as a sham and have left! They have had years of being ignored for the concerns of metropolitan Guardianistas.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Omnium said:

    Has anyone asked Corbyn about how Labour plan to support the government in order to avoid a GE?

    Has anyone asked the SNP under what circumstances they might support a democratic vote?

    Has anyone asked the LDs what they understand by democracy?

    There are some very nasty politicians in our times. Boris isn't one of them.


    Of course not, never told a lie in his life or only did what was best for Al Johnson
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637
    justin124 said:

    Tonight's Delta Poll giving the Tories a 13% lead implies - on a UNS basis - 48 gains from Labour offset by 12 losses to the LDs and circa 8 to SNP. That leaves them on 346 seats - a majority of 42.

    Jester high water point.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    So tonight johnson will speak to Varadkar, Macron and Merkel and theyll tell him what extension is getting given, he will tell them when he thinks he can get it through and tomorrow we will have a clearer picture.
    Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates

    31st December? That is not a good idea.
    Why not?

    (Setting aside that exit is not a good idea full stop!)
    An event of this magnitude that is also contentious could see protests / celebrations with a small chance of disorder. If that, and/or unexpected border issues arise at ports or in Northern Ireland, you want the emergency services to be able to focus on that. But 31st December is already a busy day for policing most years. It wouldn't be a good idea to make them coincide when it's easy enough to keep them separate. And since you can't move New Year, Brexiting exactly then would be taking unnecessary risks.
    Fair point.
  • nichomar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Dear EU diplomats

    It is unlikely that there is a brexit deal that can command Government support and gain enough opposition support in a hung parliament. Therefore the only way a deal does get through is through an election.

    Unless you want all this to come back at an EU summit every 3 months and prevent the EU from functioning properly
    No just give us an extension to 2200 that will resolve everything, we can then go back to worry about important things rather than pathetic sovereignty arguments
    As I understand it you don't even live in the UK so no surprise you don't care anout the place as long as it keeps sending you money.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    edited October 2019
    justin124 said:

    Tonight's Delta Poll giving the Tories a 13% lead implies - on a UNS basis - 48 gains from Labour offset by 12 losses to the LDs and circa 8 to SNP. That leaves them on 346 seats - a majority of 42.

    That'd get the job done! :D
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    geoffw said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is insanity.
    I've no time for Murray at all, but he has a big personal vote in that seat, and would be the last man standing at a GE.

    Morningside matrons aren't about to vote for whichever scruffy Corbynite Unite are hoping to dredge up.
    About his personal vote: quite a few Cons and LDs voted for him to keep the ScotNat out.
    But if they keep doing it election after election, are they really Cons or LDs?
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    edited October 2019
    murali_s said:

    Floater said:

    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
    so, your Labour voters in the north and midlands... you are calling all of them xenophobes are you?
    This whole idea that Labour voters are Leavers is bullshit - the overwhelming majority of Labour voters wherever they are voted Remain.

    This myth needs to be busted asap.
    There are constituencies where it is mathematically impossible for the majority of Labour voters, let alone the overwhelming majority, to have voted Remain. Ed Miliband represents one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Scott_P said:
    And given his decision to pause it, not even any justification for the EU to offer a shorter extension even if they cared to.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,894
    Labour now under attack from both sides lol
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153
    Scott_P said:
    Ah there we go.

    We should be able to move on to a general election by the end of the week then.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
    clause 3, section 4?

    (4)Nothing in this section shall prevent the Prime Minister from agreeing to an extension of the period specified in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union otherwise than in accordance with this section.
    extension.

    (2)If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00pm on 31 October 2019, but to a date other than 11.00pm on 31 January 2020, the Prime Minister must, within a period of two days beginning with the end of the day on which the European Council’s decision is made, or before the end of 30 October 2019, whichever is sooner, notify the President of the European Council that the United Kingdom agrees to the proposed extension.

  • Scott_P said:

    Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?

    If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?

    BoZo secured the deal with the EU by putting a border in the Irish sea
    So people who voted against May's Deal have now voted against the BorisDeal.

    No change there then and nobody been ditched.
    But Bozo went DUP conference and promised that there would be no customs border in the Irish Sea. And then met Vradakar and agreed to put a customs border in the Irish Sea. A complete betrayal. Even May was not that brazen.
    Boris did though produce another plan first which didn't get a warm welcome in Dublin or elsewhere.

    Ultimately the DUP are on a long, slow but downward escalator - if the union means so much to them they need to support full integration within the UK.

    But unionism gets ignored when its an inconvenience to them - see abortion as an example.
  • Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
    No I think Mr Tyrone is correct on this. Parliament decides whether to accept anything other than the 31st Jan date.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586

    Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
    No I think Mr Tyrone is correct on this. Parliament decides whether to accept anything other than the 31st Jan date.
    I thought that but now I am not so sure. What does this clause mean?...

    (4)Nothing in this section shall prevent the Prime Minister from agreeing to an extension of the period specified in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union otherwise than in accordance with this section.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,772
    Scott_P said:
    What’s the earliest date for a GE now then? Can the government still squeeze it into 2019?

    I think they’d like a short campaign, considering what happened last time...
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
    No I think Mr Tyrone is correct on this. Parliament decides whether to accept anything other than the 31st Jan date.
    Nothing in the Benn Act says they have to accept, they have to decline but the PM can accept as per

    (2)If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00pm on 31 October 2019, but to a date other than 11.00pm on 31 January 2020, the Prime Minister must, within a period of two days beginning with the end of the day on which the European Council’s decision is made, or before the end of 30 October 2019, whichever is sooner, notify the President of the European Council that the United Kingdom agrees to the proposed extension.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    RobD said:

    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?

    I think because they believe there is electoral advantage in appearing unreasonable, and then quietly doing that later. It invites the Opposition to focus their fire on that easy target, which then rather takes the wind out of the sails of the Opposition when they give way. This is what they did with the whole letter thing for the extension. By making a big fuss out of it they then establish the idea that they are resisting mightily the unreasonable demands of the Opposition.

    It's theatre to mesmerise. Given the recent opinion polls it seems to be working quite well. Though it's the sort of spell that might break rather suddenly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Scott_P said:
    A shame, I was hoping we'd get a referendum (in principle) approved/rejected or a deal agreed before any GE, but Labour see it as the path to gamble Brexit does not happen, and Boris believes he'll win and face an easier time rather than a painful management of tight votes it seems.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    It's so easy with Corbyn though.

    His acolytes are singing their blind-mans song. (murali_s)

    His defenders are blinding themselves deliberately. (bjo)

    Nothing that Jeremy Corbyn has ever done, or said, so far as can be discerned, has any merit whatsoever. Much of what he's done has had great dis-benefit to many people. He's encouraged terrorism. High fives with important terrorists - dancing on the graves of the Holocaust victims. He's not doing this because he's an anti-semite though. He's not. He's doing this because he hates wealth. He hates work. He hates endeavour.

    I don't even imagine he has a good side.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Pulpstar said:

    Labour now under attack from both sides lol

    Might not be a bad thing.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Scott_P said:
    'RT to back Boris'

    Bloody Russians, meddling in our democratic processes.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Omnium said:

    It's so easy with Corbyn though.

    His acolytes are singing their blind-mans song. (murali_s)

    His defenders are blinding themselves deliberately. (bjo)

    Nothing that Jeremy Corbyn has ever done, or said, so far as can be discerned, has any merit whatsoever. Much of what he's done has had great dis-benefit to many people. He's encouraged terrorism. High fives with important terrorists - dancing on the graves of the Holocaust victims. He's not doing this because he's an anti-semite though. He's not. He's doing this because he hates wealth. He hates work. He hates endeavour.

    I don't even imagine he has a good side.

    :D
  • HYUFD said:
    Does Ken want more time so that he can read the BorisDeal ?

    Unlike the Maastricht Treaty :wink:
    Its fine Big G says Boris has united the Tories
    He has. Only a handful outside the party now
    Are TSE, Herdson & Nabavi still outside? Much as I have differing views from then on lots of stuff, I'd imagine they and folk like them are people a decent party would want.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Fnckin Rees Mogg ...

    I am not unsympathetic to the point about time, it is simply the deadline of 31 October which was set by the European Union and, therefore, we are compressed in the time available to get this bill delivered, which is why I was willing to support the programme motion and felt that it was reasonable under the circumstances...

    Jerk.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    blueblue said:

    Scott_P said:
    Then give a final extension of 2 weeks you utter pillocks. It's the only way this Parliament will ever pass anything of substance!
    But this is the Parliament we democratically voted for.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Amazing the 3 letters thing didn't work...
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Dear EU diplomats

    It is unlikely that there is a brexit deal that can command Government support and gain enough opposition support in a hung parliament. Therefore the only way a deal does get through is through an election.

    Unless you want all this to come back at an EU summit every 3 months and prevent the EU from functioning properly
    No just give us an extension to 2200 that will resolve everything, we can then go back to worry about important things rather than pathetic sovereignty arguments
    As I understand it you don't even live in the UK so no surprise you don't care anout the place as long as it keeps sending you money.
    I have every right to care about what happens in the UK because it will affect my and my children’s rights, the UK do not send me a penny that I haven’t earned or contributed to over the years. I think having paid x,xxx,xxx in tax in my working life I have a right to my £140/week pension as much as anyone. If We all had to come back to the UK I think we might bugger a few things up.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    blueblue said:

    Scott_P said:
    Then give a final extension of 2 weeks you utter pillocks. It's the only way this Parliament will ever pass anything of substance!
    But this is the Parliament we democratically voted for.
    I don't think either of us is going to claim that the electorate has shown an abundance of good sense recently.
  • geoffw said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is insanity.
    I've no time for Murray at all, but he has a big personal vote in that seat, and would be the last man standing at a GE.

    Morningside matrons aren't about to vote for whichever scruffy Corbynite Unite are hoping to dredge up.
    About his personal vote: quite a few Cons and LDs voted for him to keep the ScotNat out.
    Yes, I live in Scotland, I am aware...

    It is a tricky constituency. The genteel ladies of affluent Edinburgh are no fans of Boris or Jeremy. The students are anti-Brexit, but largely wealthy and English.

    Putting up some Trot is a suicide mission, it could end up as a four way marginal.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

    Should read - Corbyn - how can I trick Leavers into voting labour whilst the whole party machinery wants to remain.

    He couldn’t even answer a yes no question does he support Brexit? An adult would be able to state his position and appeal to those who don’t adhere to the same view.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    edited October 2019
    Nigelb said:

    Fnckin Rees Mogg ...

    I am not unsympathetic to the point about time, it is simply the deadline of 31 October which was set by the European Union and, therefore, we are compressed in the time available to get this bill delivered, which is why I was willing to support the programme motion and felt that it was reasonable under the circumstances...

    Jerk.

    I mean, it's just so disingenuous. It's very clear that however they arrived at this point, this government didn't have a deal ready in time for it to receive proper scrutiny in Parliament and meet this deadline. Given that circumstance, they opted to argue for not having proper scrutiny over asking to extend the deadline.
    And they did so for political reasons.

    Rushed legislation is bad legislation. Conservatives used to know this. How have they changed so drastically?
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    Scott_P said:

    Amazing the 3 letters thing didn't work...

    Apart from earning him some "stick it to the man" headlines in supportive papers on Sunday, as opposed to "Boris fails to do thing he promised he could definitely do"?

    Given he could have written the bloody thing in pink crayon on toilet paper and Tusk would have interpreted it in the way he has, I'd say it did *exactly* the job he intended :)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,121

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
    clause 3, section 4?

    (4)Nothing in this section shall prevent the Prime Minister from agreeing to an extension of the period specified in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union otherwise than in accordance with this section.
    extension.

    (2)If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00pm on 31 October 2019, but to a date other than 11.00pm on 31 January 2020, the Prime Minister must, within a period of two days beginning with the end of the day on which the European Council’s decision is made, or before the end of 30 October 2019, whichever is sooner, notify the President of the European Council that the United Kingdom agrees to the proposed extension.

    Yes the PM can agree to a shorter (or longer!) extension so long as he also keeps hustling for the Benn Act extension, takes it if it's to 31/1 and puts it to Parliament if it's not.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_P said:

    So people who voted against May's Deal have now voted against the BorisDeal.

    No change there then and nobody been ditched.

    The DUP previously voted with the Tories on other Government business.

    BoZo may yet lose his queen's Speech and budget after ditching the DUP.
    As Boris wants an election that shouldn't be of too much concern.

    And being big mates with the DUP might be a vote winner in Scotland but it isn't in England.
    Only in some parts of Scotland, the DUP bit I mean, as opposed to the wider unionist shtick. Which puts the Scots Tories in a big quandary, the more the Cabinet bigs up the special luxurious position of NI compared to Scotland. Especially if you are a fisherman or a farmer.
    Hello Carnyx, I think he is wrong apart from desperate LOL and the Tories. Giving them a great deal and shafting Scotland will win them no friends. By the time they shaft the fisherman and farmers they will have no friends whatsoever.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Just out of interest, who exactly is it you think wants an election?
    I mean, I do, but let's put that to one side.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    No Deal is dead.

    It’s not coming back.

    Therefore we either Leave within a CU, or Boris wins an election in order to pass his piss-poor Deal.

    The last looks most likely but one assumes the Opposition haven’t stopped toying with him yet.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Is Cummings still leaving Number 10 at the end of the month?
  • Is Cummings still leaving Number 10 at the end of the month?

    He was supposedly on a fixed term arrangement for medical reasons.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114

    Scott_P said:

    Amazing the 3 letters thing didn't work...

    Apart from earning him some "stick it to the man" headlines in supportive papers on Sunday, as opposed to "Boris fails to do thing he promised he could definitely do"?

    Given he could have written the bloody thing in pink crayon on toilet paper and Tusk would have interpreted it in the way he has, I'd say it did *exactly* the job he intended :)
    I think Macron has played a blinder as a BoJo cockteaser....obviously the way to play him

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,637

    Johnson: Fuck Remainers
    Tory Swinson: Fuck Leavers
    Corbyn: Let’s stop No Deal and then treat both sides with respect and have a public vote

    I am for the one trying to deal with this horrible mess and to bring the divided country together too

    Corbyn is the only adult in the room

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha

    Should read - Corbyn - how can I trick Leavers into voting labour whilst the whole party machinery wants to remain.

    He couldn’t even answer a yes no question does he support Brexit? An adult would be able to state his position and appeal to those who don’t adhere to the same view.
    Jester 2 letters for Referendum now 3 letters for extension


    5 yr old
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Is Cummings still leaving Number 10 at the end of the month?

    Yes. His species spend winters in the silt at the bottom of ponds.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    No Deal is dead.

    It’s not coming back.

    Therefore we either Leave within a CU, or Boris wins an election in order to pass his piss-poor Deal.

    The last looks most likely but one assumes the Opposition haven’t stopped toying with him yet.

    A deal that 99.9% of people haven’t got a clue about
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
    clause 3, section 4?

    (4)Nothing in this section shall prevent the Prime Minister from agreeing to an extension of the period specified in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union otherwise than in accordance with this section.
    extension.

    (2)If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00pm on 31 October 2019, but to a date other than 11.00pm on 31 January 2020, the Prime Minister must, within a period of two days beginning with the end of the day on which the European Council’s decision is made, or before the end of 30 October 2019, whichever is sooner, notify the President of the European Council that the United Kingdom agrees to the proposed extension.

    ....unless the HoC fails to ratify it (according to the next clause)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Noo said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Just out of interest, who exactly is it you think wants an election?
    I mean, I do, but let's put that to one side.
    It’s a bit weird now . Johnson now owns a deal , can he really go no deal in his manifesto. If he doesn’t go no deal what happens with rent a gob Farage .

    Labour although polling poorly might think the Brexit Party might split the vote .


  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.

    https://twitter.com/NicholasTyrone/status/1186732275838394369
    That is incorrect. The Benn Act says the PM may unilaterally accept any offer
    clause 3, section 4?

    (4)Nothing in this section shall prevent the Prime Minister from agreeing to an extension of the period specified in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union otherwise than in accordance with this section.
    extension.

    (2)If the European Council decides to agree an extension of the period in Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union ending at 11.00pm on 31 October 2019, but to a date other than 11.00pm on 31 January 2020, the Prime Minister must, within a period of two days beginning with the end of the day on which the European Council’s decision is made, or before the end of 30 October 2019, whichever is sooner, notify the President of the European Council that the United Kingdom agrees to the proposed extension.

    ....unless the HoC fails to ratify it (according to the next clause)
    But nothing states he has to put it to parliament. He can just accept it
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    nico67 said:

    Noo said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Just out of interest, who exactly is it you think wants an election?
    I mean, I do, but let's put that to one side.
    It’s a bit weird now . Johnson now owns a deal , can he really go no deal in his manifesto. If he doesn’t go no deal what happens with rent a gob Farage .

    Labour although polling poorly might think the Brexit Party might split the vote .


    Yep - this is what will happen - a GE will most likely return another hung Parliament. Then what?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited October 2019
    nico67 said:

    Noo said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Just out of interest, who exactly is it you think wants an election?
    I mean, I do, but let's put that to one side.
    It’s a bit weird now . Johnson now owns a deal , can he really go no deal in his manifesto. If he doesn’t go no deal what happens with rent a gob Farage .

    Labour although polling poorly might think the Brexit Party might split the vote .


    A fair proportion of the Brexit Party vote is natural Labour Party supporters though.

    I am guessing the Tory spin will be only the Tories can finally deliver Brexit, with the hope that those that would never ever vote Tory, can stick their cross in the Brexit Party box (especially after hearing Jezza banging on about yet another longer delay, renegotiation Mk III and a referendum which his own party will campaign for Remain side).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Is Cummings still leaving Number 10 at the end of the month?

    Cumstain and Bercow both available for the panto season.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    BoZo - My Deal
    Fucking Farage - No Deal
    Lib Dems - Revoke
    Labour - Revote

    There's your election...
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613

    geoffw said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is insanity.
    I've no time for Murray at all, but he has a big personal vote in that seat, and would be the last man standing at a GE.

    Morningside matrons aren't about to vote for whichever scruffy Corbynite Unite are hoping to dredge up.
    About his personal vote: quite a few Cons and LDs voted for him to keep the ScotNat out.
    Yes, I live in Scotland, I am aware...

    It is a tricky constituency. The genteel ladies of affluent Edinburgh are no fans of Boris or Jeremy. The students are anti-Brexit, but largely wealthy and English.

    Putting up some Trot is a suicide mission, it could end up as a four way marginal.
    Didn't his work on keeping Hearts from going under help as well ?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Is Cummings still leaving Number 10 at the end of the month?

    Cumstain and Bercow both available for the panto season.
    Sorry but ... oh no they’re not
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Scott_P said:

    BoZo - My Deal
    Fucking Farage - No Deal
    Lib Dems - Revoke
    Labour - Revote

    There's your election...

    SNP - indyref2
    Greens - ?
    DUP - ?
    SF - border poll?
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Will be so much easier when Bercow leaves next week
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Noo said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Just out of interest, who exactly is it you think wants an election?
    I mean, I do, but let's put that to one side.
    I think the true answer to that is probably the SNP and the Lib Dems. But not Johnson, not the Tories and not Labour. Johnson doesn't want to risk being kicked out after just a few months. The Tories, despite their polling leads, are not in as strong a position as they were in 2017 and neither the deal nor Johnson personally are likely to stand up well to the scrutiny of an election campaign. And Labour is not in a good position in the polls and does not have a clear path to an improvement.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Why Boris has a deal - Parliament now has time to discover and highlight all the flaws in it.
  • PaulM said:

    geoffw said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is insanity.
    I've no time for Murray at all, but he has a big personal vote in that seat, and would be the last man standing at a GE.

    Morningside matrons aren't about to vote for whichever scruffy Corbynite Unite are hoping to dredge up.
    About his personal vote: quite a few Cons and LDs voted for him to keep the ScotNat out.
    Yes, I live in Scotland, I am aware...

    It is a tricky constituency. The genteel ladies of affluent Edinburgh are no fans of Boris or Jeremy. The students are anti-Brexit, but largely wealthy and English.

    Putting up some Trot is a suicide mission, it could end up as a four way marginal.
    Didn't his work on keeping Hearts from going under help as well ?
    Yes, there is an element of the Maroon vote.

    You just know McCluskey has looked at the majority and thought 'safe seat for Karie'.

    Happy Falkirk memories. I will laugh forever if this is the game plan.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Brom said:

    Will be so much easier when Bercow leaves next week

    To what? Do you think the new speaker is going to allow the govt to table the same thing over again?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Noo said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fnckin Rees Mogg ...

    I am not unsympathetic to the point about time, it is simply the deadline of 31 October which was set by the European Union and, therefore, we are compressed in the time available to get this bill delivered, which is why I was willing to support the programme motion and felt that it was reasonable under the circumstances...

    Jerk.

    I mean, it's just so disingenuous. It's very clear that however they arrived at this point, this government didn't have a deal ready in time for it to receive proper scrutiny in Parliament and meet this deadline. Given that circumstance, they opted to argue for not having proper scrutiny over asking to extend the deadline.
    And they did so for political reasons.

    Rushed legislation is bad legislation. Conservatives used to know this. How have they changed so drastically?
    And they don't even seem committed to the legislation as they'll pause rather than even try to go for an additional week of talking, unless they have a rabbit up their sleeve (cannot even put it in a hat properly).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited October 2019

    Noo said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Just out of interest, who exactly is it you think wants an election?
    I mean, I do, but let's put that to one side.
    I think the true answer to that is probably the SNP and the Lib Dems. But not Johnson, not the Tories and not Labour. Johnson doesn't want to risk being kicked out after just a few months. The Tories, despite their polling leads, are not in as strong a position as they were in 2017 and neither the deal nor Johnson personally are likely to stand up well to the scrutiny of an election campaign. And Labour is not in a good position in the polls and does not have a clear path to an improvement.
    But Boris will never ever be able to get anything done. If he was to cling on for say 6-12 months, he would go down as the worse PM ever and he knows it.

    I am sure he would rather roll the dice than that, especially given the polls.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    nico67 said:

    Noo said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Just out of interest, who exactly is it you think wants an election?
    I mean, I do, but let's put that to one side.
    It’s a bit weird now . Johnson now owns a deal , can he really go no deal in his manifesto. If he doesn’t go no deal what happens with rent a gob Farage .

    Labour although polling poorly might think the Brexit Party might split the vote .


    The Brexit Party might split the vote - and take Labour Leave with it, whilst the Tory leavers stick with Boris. I seem to recall that the evidence from UKIP was that they took proportionally more Labour votes in 2015 than Tory votes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited October 2019
    Noo said:

    Brom said:

    Will be so much easier when Bercow leaves next week

    To what? Do you think the new speaker is going to allow the govt to table the same thing over again?
    Can fit in a lot more debating time without his pontificating asides though.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    Although I want this over desperately, I seriously believe that if / when this Deal goes through the UK will have dissolved inside 10 years.

    So I am having a small whisky tonight for another stay of execution.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Noo said:

    nico67 said:

    Labour have to agree an election now . If they really want to fight to get a better deal or another EU ref then they are duty bound to accept the election request .

    It does concern me though weatherwise , it would now be just Sod’s law that we’ll see blizzards on Election Day !

    Just out of interest, who exactly is it you think wants an election?
    I mean, I do, but let's put that to one side.
    I think the true answer to that is probably the SNP and the Lib Dems. But not Johnson, not the Tories and not Labour. Johnson doesn't want to risk being kicked out after just a few months. The Tories, despite their polling leads, are not in as strong a position as they were in 2017 and neither the deal nor Johnson personally are likely to stand up well to the scrutiny of an election campaign. And Labour is not in a good position in the polls and does not have a clear path to an improvement.
    I tend to agree an election before leave is best for the LibDems and SNP but disastrous for labour
This discussion has been closed.