We are not leaving the EU at all unless we have a GE or the EU tells this Parliament no more extensions. There's no point progressing the WAB in this Parliament as MPs will always find some reason, device or tactic to delay implementation.
We could easily leave the EU if the government were brave enough to put their deal to the people in a referendum... I suspect they would win easily.
We left. We voted to leave. We haven't found it so easy to actually leave.
Let's just agree we left.
Good scheme.
Maybe we could just mint some commemorative 50p coins and put up a few ads saying "Well done on getting ready for Brexit - it's gone really smoothly" to complete the feeling that we've left?
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.
There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.
Strategic geniuses, these remainers.
Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
Why does no one on either side of the argument get the fact that nothing done now can define what “type “ of Brexit we get? All that can be done is to insert something into the PD and into our withdrawal act. The former means nothing and the latter can be overwritten by whatever Gvt is in power in 4-5 years as we close in on a trade deal.
Well, that is a risk, admittedly.
But then, if the Tories really are that confident that a Customs Union commitment can be cancelled easily (because an election will definitely get triggered somehow, the Tories will definitely win a landslide, Parliament will then definitely repeal the CU law) then doesn't that beg the question why the Tories are so desperate that the Customs Union DOESN'T get put into the current Withdrawal Bill?
Well, quite. If I was Boris I wouldn’t give a shit. Even if we have no election until 2022 there will be no deal agreed before then, so any CU amendment is meaningless. The view of the party to with the next election is what matters.
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
Why are you assuming Labour gets a say on an election one way or another?
Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
Hmm yes. But it has to get through the Lords. Could be tricky.
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?
Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
And the House of Lords?
Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.
The Lords will acquiesce.
If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
So why is he not calling for an election? Corbyn has said he will support one when the extension is in place, which should be by next week, so what's Johnson waiting for?
We don't know for sure what extension the EU are offering yet?
I would suspect the government know it's going to be to 31st January but the government has got to give the EU the courtesy of replying to the Surrender letter.
As soon as that reply is in (hopefully will be this week) I'm sure they'll push on with getting a general election together.
It is unlikely that there is a brexit deal that can command Government support and gain enough opposition support in a hung parliament. Therefore the only way a deal does get through is through an election.
Unless you want all this to come back at an EU summit every 3 months and prevent the EU from functioning properly
So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.
There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.
Strategic geniuses, these remainers.
Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
Why does no one on either side of the argument get the fact that nothing done now can define what “type “ of Brexit we get? All that can be done is to insert something into the PD and into our withdrawal act. The former means nothing and the latter can be overwritten by whatever Gvt is in power in 4-5 years as we close in on a trade deal.
Well, that is a risk, admittedly.
But then, if the Tories really are that confident that a Customs Union commitment can be cancelled easily (because an election will definitely get triggered somehow, the Tories will definitely win a landslide, Parliament will then definitely repeal the CU law) then doesn't that beg the question why the Tories are so desperate that the Customs Union DOESN'T get put into the current Withdrawal Bill?
Well, quite. If I was Boris I wouldn’t give a shit. Even if we have no election until 2022 there will be no deal agreed before then, so any CU amendment is meaningless. The view of the party to with the next election is what matters.
He may not, but enough if his mps and backers would flip their shit if he passed it with that, even promising hed change it.
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?
Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
And the House of Lords?
Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.
The Lords will acquiesce.
If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
I presume he's not in the habit of handing the premiership over to stupid communists...
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?
Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
And the House of Lords?
Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.
The Lords will acquiesce.
If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
In what way are the LibDems the "biggest" Remain party? Show workings. Use both sides of the paper......
If you exclude Labour as a Remain party on the basis they have a Leave leader and do not have a Remain policy (which I think is fair) the question then becomes whether the Lib Dems or SNP are "bigger".
Plainly, the SNP's case would be that it won more seats in 2017. The Lib Dems' case would be that they easily out-poll the SNP, can actually be expected to stand in 600+ seats, came second in the European Parliamentary elections and so on.
So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.
There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.
Strategic geniuses, these remainers.
Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
Why does no one on either side of the argument get the fact that nothing done now can define what “type “ of Brexit we get? All that can be done is to insert something into the PD and into our withdrawal act. The former means nothing and the latter can be overwritten by whatever Gvt is in power in 4-5 years as we close in on a trade deal.
Well, that is a risk, admittedly.
But then, if the Tories really are that confident that a Customs Union commitment can be cancelled easily (because an election will definitely get triggered somehow, the Tories will definitely win a landslide, Parliament will then definitely repeal the CU law) then doesn't that beg the question why the Tories are so desperate that the Customs Union DOESN'T get put into the current Withdrawal Bill?
Well, quite. If I was Boris I wouldn’t give a shit. Even if we have no election until 2022 there will be no deal agreed before then, so any CU amendment is meaningless. The view of the party to with the next election is what matters.
He may not, but enough if his mps and backers would flip their shit if he passed it with that, even promising hed change it.
And we’re back to reason 3456 of why MPs annoy me. Lack of strategic thinking. Secure the victory you can today (an amended deal) then come back to finish your victory later.
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?
Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
And the House of Lords?
Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.
The Lords will acquiesce.
If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
I presume he's not in the habit of handing the premiership over to stupid communists...
He just takes advice from stupid Leninists like Banon and Cummings.
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?
Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
And the House of Lords?
Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.
The Lords will acquiesce.
If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
One word Ben. Corbyn
Corbyn would be powerless (and very short-lived) as PM, so I still don't get it.
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?
Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
And the House of Lords?
Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.
The Lords will acquiesce.
If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
I presume he's not in the habit of handing the premiership over to stupid communists...
He just takes advice from stupid Leninists like Banon and Cummings.
So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.
There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.
Strategic geniuses, these remainers.
Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
The deal is the only one on offer and will not be reopened by the EU
The choice is to pass this deal, GE or no deal on 31st January so we are back to where we were
The Council has extended twice before and found itself with a harder brexit deal from a more popular UK government as a result. Dare it roll the dice again?
Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP
They kneecapped him. Double tap...
The DUP will vote through any amendment to wreck Bozos deal. The UUP are putting pressure on them to end the confidence and supply deal with the Tories.
This is good. He can't meet the magic date now. Next step is to bog him down and at the same time not allow an election. Take this into 2020. Hope the public start to see the weakness of character and complete absence of integrity in this exclusively self-interested individual.
Can't see Boris going for a GE when he had a majority of 30 in the vote. A GE is too much of a risk. If he looses it or we have another hung parliament he may end up with no Brexit at all.
And on the subject of political death wishes, their comrades here in the West Midlands are getting in on the act. So urgent was the need to shortlist this sort of candidate that she got a special dispensation to stand despite having been a party member for just 4 months. Andy Street must be laughing his socks off.
2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.
3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.
4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.
5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).
6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.
7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.
8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...
Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?
Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
And the House of Lords?
Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.
The Lords will acquiesce.
If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
I presume he's not in the habit of handing the premiership over to stupid communists...
It would lead quickly and inevitably to his much-desired GE.
Looks like the public want to remain in the EU with a mahoosive Tory majority
That’s quite an indictment of Corbyn.
who would have thought turning us into Venezuela including the anti semitism wasn't a vote winner
He probably saw how successful racism has been for Farage and his Leave.EU cronies and decided to tap into that.
If you want to reduce labours vote share to that of UKIP knock yourself out.
To be fair you certainly giving it a go - against a paralysed government you are HOW far behind lol
How shit must Labour be
I am giving it a go. I would like Labour and the Conservatives both reduced to sub-5%. That would be a dream come true for me. Cheers, glad we agree that bigots like Boris and Jezza have no place in government.
Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP
They kneecapped him. Double tap...
Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?
If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?
He's ditched them in that his whole pitch to become leader was, "Oh, wasn't May's deal awful in that it sold out our friends in Northern Ireland? I couldn't support it on that basis and sadly had no option but to stab her repeatedly in the back." And then he came up with a deal the DUP couldn't support either.
And on the subject of political death wishes, their comrades in the West Midlands are getting in on the act. So urgent was the need to consider this sort of candidate that she got a special dispensation to stand despite having been a party member for just 4 months. Andy Street must be laughing his socks off.
Can someone explain how MPs can amend the deal when this is the deal approved by the EU?
There is a big difference between the WA and what is in the WAIB, it contains the WA agreement but has untold other slight of hand devious moves by the government which they want to slide through without scrutiny.
So if the indies and tories all vote the same, the third reading needs about 6 of the labour votes to stick - Mann, Flint, Fitzpatrick and Barron are pretty much nailed on, needs 2 or 3 more if a new programme motion can be agreed. I think CU and 2REF will fall short
Can't see Boris going for a GE when he had a majority of 30 in the vote. A GE is too much of a risk. If he looses it or we have another hung parliament he may end up with no Brexit at all.
He only has a majority of 30 because Parliament is happy to discuss the bill.
When they start looking at it in detail they may not be so happy.
And on the subject of political death wishes, their comrades in the West Midlands are getting in on the act. So urgent was the need to shortlist this sort of candidate that she got a special dispensation to stand despite having been a party member for just 4 months. Andy Street must be laughing his socks off.
But he had momentum for most of the last two weeks since the talks with Vradkar.That will have been halted over the weekend and perhaps reversed somewhat after today's events. As time ticks by , a sense may develop that his bluster is failing to be translated into results and that the country is no further forward than under Theresa May.
Can't see Boris going for a GE when he had a majority of 30 in the vote. A GE is too much of a risk. If he looses it or we have another hung parliament he may end up with no Brexit at all.
Welcome to PB! Always good to get new and unconventional views.
You could be right, since for all his bleating, Boris has failed to take the one sure route to a GE (resignation).
So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.
There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.
Strategic geniuses, these remainers.
Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
The deal is the only one on offer and will not be reopened by the EU
The choice is to pass this deal, GE or no deal on 31st January so we are back to where we were
The Council has extended twice before and found itself with a harder brexit deal from a more popular UK government as a result. Dare it roll the dice again?
There’s now no time for the European Parliament to ratify the deal . The EU have no choice but to agree an extension . The EU will see some positives in that at least it passed the second reading .
This is good. He can't meet the magic date now. Next step is to bog him down and at the same time not allow an election. Take this into 2020. Hope the public start to see the weakness of character and complete absence of integrity in this exclusively self-interested individual.
Wow - lack of self awareness much
Labour would be doing this out of self interest - not in the interest of the country
Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP
They kneecapped him. Double tap...
Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?
If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?
He's ditched them in that his whole pitch to become leader was, "Oh, wasn't May's deal awful in that it sold out our friends in Northern Ireland? I couldn't support it on that basis and sadly had no option but to stab her repeatedly in the back." And then he came up with a deal the DUP couldn't support either.
The DUP aren't going to support anything which doesn't give them a veto on everything connected to NI and that's not going to happen in the real world.
So if the indies and tories all vote the same, the third reading needs about 6 of the labour votes to stick - Mann, Flint, Fitzpatrick and Barron are pretty much nailed on, needs 2 or 3 more if a new programme motion can be agreed. I think CU and 2REF will fall short
Maybe, but he's just said he's pausing the bill, so we cannot know as they won't be debating it.
It is unlikely that there is a brexit deal that can command Government support and gain enough opposition support in a hung parliament. Therefore the only way a deal does get through is through an election.
Unless you want all this to come back at an EU summit every 3 months and prevent the EU from functioning properly
No just give us an extension to 2200 that will resolve everything, we can then go back to worry about important things rather than pathetic sovereignty arguments
This is good. He can't meet the magic date now. Next step is to bog him down and at the same time not allow an election. Take this into 2020. Hope the public start to see the weakness of character and complete absence of integrity in this exclusively self-interested individual.
Wow - lack of self awareness much
Labour would be doing this out of self interest - not in the interest of the country
I think this had merits back when there was no deal on the table. Now there is a deal, the opposition parties are too far gone to notice this is doing as much damage to them as it is to the government. It’s a death spiral.
Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP
They kneecapped him. Double tap...
Indeed. Vradakar played a blinder in persuading Johnson to accept a deal which did more to boost the cause of a united Ireland than 30 years of IRA terrorism. I very much doubt the Johnson fully appreciated what he was agreeing to.
This is good. He can't meet the magic date now. Next step is to bog him down and at the same time not allow an election. Take this into 2020. Hope the public start to see the weakness of character and complete absence of integrity in this exclusively self-interested individual.
More likely they'll see the abject, craven cowardice of the Labour Party.
Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday
So why is he not calling for an election? Corbyn has said he will support one when the extension is in place, which should be by next week, so what's Johnson waiting for?
We don't know for sure what extension the EU are offering yet?
I would suspect the government know it's going to be to 31st January but the government has got to give the EU the courtesy of replying to the Surrender letter.
As soon as that reply is in (hopefully will be this week) I'm sure they'll push on with getting a general election together.
Which surrender letter was that? I saw one which was sent to the EU which complied with the Benn Burt act and some other rather odd ones from Al in what wat did Al surrender?
"this is Corbyn’s Labour Party. Voting for them would be your shame and the country’s should they be elected. These are the only people willing to run for election under a Labour banner because anyone who might wish to help the country has now been hounded out.
Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday
How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
In what way are the LibDems the "biggest" "strongest" Remain party? Show workings. Use both sides of the paper......
My mother-in-law insists that Labour are a Brexit party, but this still leaves the barrier of the SNP. I suppose if you disqualify them on the basis that they are more interested in Scottish Independence than on stopping Brexit then that would leave the Liberal Democrats as a bigger/stronger Remain party than the Greens.
So if the indies and tories all vote the same, the third reading needs about 6 of the labour votes to stick - Mann, Flint, Fitzpatrick and Barron are pretty much nailed on, needs 2 or 3 more if a new programme motion can be agreed. I think CU and 2REF will fall short
Maybe, but he's just said he's pausing the bill, so we cannot know as they won't be debating it.
Well at least it will give MPs more time to read it - I'm sure they are all eager to actually do that
Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday
If only Boris and JRM had been willing to concede that.
As it is they have lost another key vote and in so doing will only open up the WAB to more scrutiny and more potential amendments than they would have faced had they opted for a speedy but reasonable timetable.
Today has seen the government commit a serious error which will have significant effects, I suspect.
So tonight johnson will speak to Varadkar, Macron and Merkel and theyll tell him what extension is getting given, he will tell them when he thinks he can get it through and tomorrow we will have a clearer picture. Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates
Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday
If only Boris and JRM had been willing to concede that.
As it is they have lost another key vote and in so doing will only open up the WAB to more scrutiny and more potential amendments than they would have faced had they opted for a speedy but reasonable timetable.
Today has seen the government commit a serious error which will have significant effects, I suspect.
So tonight johnson will speak to Varadkar, Macron and Merkel and theyll tell him what extension is getting given, he will tell them when he thinks he can get it through and tomorrow we will have a clearer picture. Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates
The opinion poll tonight is interesting and follows a swing towards the tories seen in the latest Panelbase and Survation. I wonder if there might be a You-Gov or Opinium near to 20% lead for the tories in the near future.
None of which makes the outcome of any election any clearer as there are too many potential game-changers out there. But it probably make Labour less likely to honour their commitment to a GE if no-deal is avoided.
Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday
How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
In theory it could be two weeks if that's all the EU offer and the HoC approves their offer.
The second reading of the bill is somewhat irrelevant especially if you want to attach a referendum to it. The media are being silly to big this ‘success’ up. Yes we are on some final flight path but the end result is far from certain.
So tonight johnson will speak to Varadkar, Macron and Merkel and theyll tell him what extension is getting given, he will tell them when he thinks he can get it through and tomorrow we will have a clearer picture. Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates
31st December? That is not a good idea.
Why not?
(Setting aside that exit is not a good idea full stop!)
Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday
How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
In theory it could be two weeks if that's all the EU offer and the HoC approves their offer.
The second reading of the bill is somewhat irrelevant especially if you want to attach a referendum to it. The media are being silly to big this ‘success’ up. Yes we are on some final flight path but the end result is far from certain.
But the landing gear isn't down, engines two and four are on fire, a madman is at the stick and the USA has scrap metal merchants waiting alongside the runway.
Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?
I think they need to hear from the EU first. The response from Boris didn't rule this out entirely. At least it wasn't a toys out of the pram, I want an election to sort this type answer and was a step up on his previous perfomances as PM in parliament.
Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?
There was some pressure (by Tories and LabLeave MPs) on JRM to table a timetable motion tomorrow morning to get the committee stage started tomorrow and then work through the weekend to get everything through by Monday next week. He said an emphatic no, which makes me think the Government has 'a cunning plan'....
Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday
How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
In theory it could be two weeks if that's all the EU offer and the HoC approves their offer.
Not. Happening.
Boris could just accept without referring to parliament. And if they did refuse it, we no deal on halloween, there is no safety net unless they vote to revoke
Replace him with some Momentum-ite and lose The People's Republic of Morningside.
I said some weeks ago that Murray will never lose Morningside. I regret that I was imprecise. I meant in an election against other parties. I didn't bank on him being defeated by Labour.
Ooh - Scortland could really now become a Labour MP-free zone.
But then was he really a Labour Party member so much as a Unionist ? IIRC he irged people to vote Tory to keep the SNP out - except in his own seat. Foir some reason the full interview seems to have been deleted, if it is not simply my lack of google fu.
Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?
There was some pressure (by Tories and LabLeave MPs) on JRM to table a timetable motion tomorrow morning to get the committee stage started tomorrow and then work through the weekend to get everything through by Monday next week. He said an emphatic no, which makes me think the Government has 'a cunning plan'....
Being fair they got a deal when I thought they wouldn't, so I guess we should wait to see what this cunning plan is. But why that plan cannot also see them table a new motion to show they are continuing to be serious about debating and legislating on this, I do not know.
Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?
There was some pressure (by Tories and LabLeave MPs) on JRM to table a timetable motion tomorrow morning to get the committee stage started tomorrow and then work through the weekend to get everything through by Monday next week. He said an emphatic no, which makes me think the Government has 'a cunning plan'....
Unless they are waiting on developments on the hotline to Dublin berlin and Paris tonight
Comments
Maybe we could just mint some commemorative 50p coins and put up a few ads saying "Well done on getting ready for Brexit - it's gone really smoothly" to complete the feeling that we've left?
They kneecapped him. Double tap...
I would suspect the government know it's going to be to 31st January but the government has got to give the EU the courtesy of replying to the Surrender letter.
As soon as that reply is in (hopefully will be this week) I'm sure they'll push on with getting a general election together.
- Labour isn't a remain party
- Counting size by number of votes at the last election or by current polling numbers
To be fair you certainly giving it a go - against a paralysed government you are HOW far behind lol
How shit must Labour be
It is unlikely that there is a brexit deal that can command Government support and gain enough opposition support in a hung parliament. Therefore the only way a deal does get through is through an election.
Unless you want all this to come back at an EU summit every 3 months and prevent the EU from functioning properly
Plainly, the SNP's case would be that it won more seats in 2017. The Lib Dems' case would be that they easily out-poll the SNP, can actually be expected to stand in 600+ seats, came second in the European Parliamentary elections and so on.
Less than two sides of paper required.
Will the spoilt child make another appearance?
Though I am sure you would love to ignore those 17.4 million voters who believed what they were told.
If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2019/10/21/she-has-form-when-it-comes-to-homophobia-anger-as-salma-yaqoob-shortlisted-for-labour-mayoral-tilt/
https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1186246558314106881
https://order-order.com/2019/10/22/labours-ealing-north-selection-disaster/
Labour 2019
WA and what is in the WAIB, it contains the WA agreement but has untold other slight of hand devious moves by the government which they want to slide through without scrutiny.
I think CU and 2REF will fall short
This myth needs to be busted asap.
When they start looking at it in detail they may not be so happy.
You could be right, since for all his bleating, Boris has failed to take the one sure route to a GE (resignation).
Labour would be doing this out of self interest - not in the interest of the country
It will be fun (gulp) seeing which one.
Oh wait, judging by the polls, they already have!
http://hurryupharry.org/2019/10/22/labours-crank-candidates-salma-yaqoob-ali-milani-jo-bird-luke-cresswell/
"this is Corbyn’s Labour Party. Voting for them would be your shame and the country’s should they be elected. These are the only people willing to run for election under a Labour banner because anyone who might wish to help the country has now been hounded out.
Vote anyone but Labour."
No change there then and nobody been ditched.
As it is they have lost another key vote and in so doing will only open up the WAB to more scrutiny and more potential amendments than they would have faced had they opted for a speedy but reasonable timetable.
Today has seen the government commit a serious error which will have significant effects, I suspect.
Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates
https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1186734577244614659
None of which makes the outcome of any election any clearer as there are too many potential game-changers out there. But it probably make Labour less likely to honour their commitment to a GE if no-deal is avoided.
Not. Happening.
BoZo may yet lose his queen's Speech and budget after ditching the DUP.
(Setting aside that exit is not a good idea full stop!)
2017 and before Labour voters, not so much.
And being big mates with the DUP might be a vote winner in Scotland but it isn't in England.
And if they did refuse it, we no deal on halloween, there is no safety net unless they vote to revoke
But then was he really a Labour Party member so much as a Unionist ? IIRC he irged people to vote Tory to keep the SNP out - except in his own seat. Foir some reason the full interview seems to have been deleted, if it is not simply my lack of google fu.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/19/tory-and-snp-positions-in-scotland-suggest-surge-in-tactical-voting