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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    As expected, Rory Stewart's out.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1153640542812721154

    I wonder what message he's trying to send with the piccie? ;)

    Wild horses couldn't drag him into a Boris Johnson cabinet.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Like a lot of people, I think he views the past through rose-tinted spectacles.

    And, it happens right across the political spectrum. So, depending on one's outlook, everything was wonderful (a) in the 1950's, or (b) prior to Thatcher or (c) prior to the 2016 referendum.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited July 2019
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What did the ConHome poll say, HYUFD ? In numbers or percentages.

    I believe all the ConHome surveys had Boris 65%+
    Very clever, DUDE !
    Here it is:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/tag/next-tory-leader 73:27. So Mike was correct. Boris always underachieves what polls say.
    Considering his slightly lukewarm lead from the MPs and the suppossed fanaticism of the swivel eyed entryist membership, that is a faint hearted endorsement.

    Is there a Boris out by Christmas market yet?
    Strip out the votes of the 40,000 entryists and it would have been a close result..
    Maybe fewer entryists than supposed. It could just be hype.

    I don't know the national figures, but 40,000 new (less than 1 year) members out of 160,000 is roughly in line with the increase in members in the association I'm about to resign from. Of course, new members aren't necessarily 'entryists', and it's common for there to be an increase when a leadership contest looks likely, but it is probably true that most, perhaps the vast majority, of the new members would have been committed Leavers, and many of them ex-Kippers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    edited July 2019
    Sandpit said:



    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.

    Why? You also heard more comments about the cricket the previous time that a key cricket match was last shown live and in full on terrestrial TV - in 2005. Instead of rebuilding the sport on an Ashes triumph, coverage was promptly handed over to Sky and the opportunity was lost. Ever since, and until 2019, we have been reliant on short highlights at best. The question is whether the cricket authorities will have learnt the lesson that live exposure to a mass audience generates interest in a sport.

    More recently the numpties running golf in this country have taken the Sky shilling and in the process have seen golf wiped almost entirely off terrestrial TV, with predictable consequences.
    Add F1 to that list too, only the British GP now free to air. It’s hurting sponsorship rates for the teams as sponsors need large numbers of TV eyeballs. Only 1m or so now watch each race live on Sky, as opposed to 4-6m when it was on terrestrial TV.
    Shouldn't the Sky cash make up for the lack of sponsorship ? I mean money wise the sky subs pay for the lack of eyeballs ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What did the ConHome poll say, HYUFD ? In numbers or percentages.

    I believe all the ConHome surveys had Boris 65%+
    Very clever, DUDE !
    Here it is:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/tag/next-tory-leader 73:27. So Mike was correct. Boris always underachieves what polls say.
    Considering his slightly lukewarm lead from the MPs and the suppossed fanaticism of the swivel eyed entryist membership, that is a faint hearted endorsement.

    Is there a Boris out by Christmas market yet?
    Strip out the votes of the 40,000 entryists and it would have been a close result..
    Maybe fewer entryists than supposed. It could just be hype.

    I don't know the national figures, but 40,000 new (less than 1 year) members out of 160,000 is roughly in line with the increase in members in the association I'm about to resign from. Of course, new members aren't necessarily 'entryists', and it's common for there to be an increase when a leadership contest looks likely, but it is probably true that most, perhaps the vast majority, of the new members would have been committed Leavers.
    I didn't vote for Johnson, but I think it's premature to resign.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Sean_F said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Like a lot of people, I think he views the past through rose-tinted spectacles.

    And, it happens right across the political spectrum. So, depending on one's outlook, everything was wonderful (a) in the 1950's, or (b) prior to Thatcher or (c) prior to the 2016 referendum.
    The strangest version of this lies at the core of Brexit: Thatcherites who think everything was better in the 1970s.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris' win now lead story on ABC news USA, not often the US takes such notice of a new UK PM


    https://abcnews.go.com

    Boris also leads on ABC Australia and CNN

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/?pfmredir=sm

    Brexit has got the UK lots of coverage across the world. We are the global laughing stock.
    No, we are now punching above our weight again, probably for the first time since Thatcher and Blair.

    In a world of Trump, Bolsonaro, Modi and Salvini he is not that different either
    Are you saying that Italy is currently punching above its weight because of Salvini?
    It actually has a technocrat at the moment but Salvini as Deputy PM is a driving force behind the Government, though I preferred Berlusconi personally with whom Boris shares many traits
    Berlusconi!?! You are plumbing new depths.

    Presumably the main trait Bozo shares with him involves where he sticks his member.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:



    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.

    Why? You also heard more comments about the cricket the previous time that a key cricket match was last shown live and in full on terrestrial TV - in 2005. Instead of rebuilding the sport on an Ashes triumph, coverage was promptly handed over to Sky and the opportunity was lost. Ever since, and until 2019, we have been reliant on short highlights at best. The question is whether the cricket authorities will have learnt the lesson that live exposure to a mass audience generates interest in a sport.

    More recently the numpties running golf in this country have taken the Sky shilling and in the process have seen golf wiped almost entirely off terrestrial TV, with predictable consequences.
    Add F1 to that list too, only the British GP now free to air. It’s hurting sponsorship rates for the teams as sponsors need large numbers of TV eyeballs. Only 1m or so now watch each race live on Sky, as opposed to 4-6m when it was on terrestrial TV.
    Shouldn't the Sky cash make up for the lack of sponsorship ?
    The for owners, 'liberty media', but not so much for the teams, which then have the knock on impact on their sponsorship.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.

    He was an entirely inconsequential mayor. He won in 2012 because of who he was up against.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What did the ConHome poll say, HYUFD ? In numbers or percentages.

    I believe all the ConHome surveys had Boris 65%+
    Very clever, DUDE !
    Here it is:
    https://www.conservativehome.com/tag/next-tory-leader 73:27. So Mike was correct. Boris always underachieves what polls say.
    Considering his slightly lukewarm lead from the MPs and the suppossed fanaticism of the swivel eyed entryist membership, that is a faint hearted endorsement.

    Is there a Boris out by Christmas market yet?
    Strip out the votes of the 40,000 entryists and it would have been a close result..
    Maybe fewer entryists than supposed. It could just be hype.

    I don't know the national figures, but 40,000 new (less than 1 year) members out of 160,000 is roughly in line with the increase in members in the association I'm about to resign from. Of course, new members aren't necessarily 'entryists', and it's common for there to be an increase when a leadership contest looks likely, but it is probably true that most, perhaps the vast majority, of the new members would have been committed Leavers.
    I didn't vote for Johnson, but I think it's premature to resign.
    I'm off in the wilderness for a bit. I may be some time.
  • JBriskinindyref2JBriskinindyref2 Posts: 1,775
    edited July 2019
    I've done a summary of the Responses for those without access to a TV-

    Hunt - Gisajob

    TMay - I will support from the backbenches

    Trump - He'll be great!

    Corbyn - blah general election blah

    Barnier - Ve vill be "constructive" once ze correct paperwork is filled in.


    Also, pedantry corner, Bolton kept saying it was "just over 2/1" ; in actual fact it was by a very slim margin just under.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Well, this is a first. For once, John McDonnell is spot-on:

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1153624513168498689
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    More Scots voted to Leave the EU in 2016 than voted SNP at the last general election
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    Sean_F said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Like a lot of people, I think he views the past through rose-tinted spectacles.

    And, it happens right across the political spectrum. So, depending on one's outlook, everything was wonderful (a) in the 1950's, or (b) prior to Thatcher or (c) prior to the 2016 referendum.
    The strangest version of this lies at the core of Brexit: Thatcherites who think everything was better in the 1970s.
    I think for professional people, life in the 1970's was easier than it is today. Making money was easier, the workload was lighter, and the level of regulation a fraction of today's.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.

    He continues to be very lucky in who his Labour opponent is, but the scrutiny he will now be under will be unlike anything he has ever known before. There will be no hiding. He has promised us a virtually painless No Deal Brexit. He now has to deliver.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:



    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.

    Why? You also heard more comments about the cricket the previous time that a key cricket match was last shown live and in full on terrestrial TV - in 2005. Instead of rebuilding the sport on an Ashes triumph, coverage was promptly handed over to Sky and the opportunity was lost. Ever since, and until 2019, we have been reliant on short highlights at best. The question is whether the cricket authorities will have learnt the lesson that live exposure to a mass audience generates interest in a sport.

    More recently the numpties running golf in this country have taken the Sky shilling and in the process have seen golf wiped almost entirely off terrestrial TV, with predictable consequences.
    Add F1 to that list too, only the British GP now free to air. It’s hurting sponsorship rates for the teams as sponsors need large numbers of TV eyeballs. Only 1m or so now watch each race live on Sky, as opposed to 4-6m when it was on terrestrial TV.
    Shouldn't the Sky cash make up for the lack of sponsorship ?
    The for owners, 'liberty media', but not so much for the teams, which then have the knock on impact on their sponsorship.
    I hit 120 last night and decided to port to Teldrassil for the first time this expansion, never felt quite so sad playing a video game before :o
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:



    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.

    Why? You also heard more comments about the cricket the previous time that a key cricket match was last shown live and in full on terrestrial TV - in 2005. Instead of rebuilding the sport on an Ashes triumph, coverage was promptly handed over to Sky and the opportunity was lost. Ever since, and until 2019, we have been reliant on short highlights at best. The question is whether the cricket authorities will have learnt the lesson that live exposure to a mass audience generates interest in a sport.

    More recently the numpties running golf in this country have taken the Sky shilling and in the process have seen golf wiped almost entirely off terrestrial TV, with predictable consequences.
    Add F1 to that list too, only the British GP now free to air. It’s hurting sponsorship rates for the teams as sponsors need large numbers of TV eyeballs. Only 1m or so now watch each race live on Sky, as opposed to 4-6m when it was on terrestrial TV.
    Shouldn't the Sky cash make up for the lack of sponsorship ? I mean money wise the sky subs pay for the lack of eyeballs ?
    The problem is that the Sky cash goes to FOM (Liberty Media, formerly Bernie Ecclestone) whereas a lot of the sponsorship money goes to the teams directly. Only a small fraction of the FOM sponsorship money makes in to the prize fund for competitors.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.

    He continues to be very lucky in who his Labour opponent is, but the scrutiny he will now be under will be unlike anything he has ever known before. There will be no hiding. He has promised us a virtually painless No Deal Brexit. He now has to deliver.

    My only hope is that he will go to Brussels, effectively do a deal very like the current only, but be able to spin it enough to pull the wool over the Brexiteers.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:



    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.

    Why? You also heard more comments about the cricket the previous time that a key cricket match was last shown live and in full on terrestrial TV - in 2005. Instead of rebuilding the sport on an Ashes triumph, coverage was promptly handed over to Sky and the opportunity was lost. Ever since, and until 2019, we have been reliant on short highlights at best. The question is whether the cricket authorities will have learnt the lesson that live exposure to a mass audience generates interest in a sport.

    More recently the numpties running golf in this country have taken the Sky shilling and in the process have seen golf wiped almost entirely off terrestrial TV, with predictable consequences.
    Add F1 to that list too, only the British GP now free to air. It’s hurting sponsorship rates for the teams as sponsors need large numbers of TV eyeballs. Only 1m or so now watch each race live on Sky, as opposed to 4-6m when it was on terrestrial TV.
    Shouldn't the Sky cash make up for the lack of sponsorship ? I mean money wise the sky subs pay for the lack of eyeballs ?
    TV money went to Bernie / Liberty. Sponsorship money went directly to the teams budget...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Looking across the pond, the Democratic nominee candidates who are 1st and 2nd in the polls continue to have odds of 5.5 and 12.5 respectively to win the nomination. The media seem to prefer a Warren, Harris or Buttigieg nomination to Biden or Sanders, but can that really account for such a disparity?

    Biden seems like value at that price but you can't just look the absolute polling numbers, you have to look at the trends. The voters know Biden and Sanders pretty well, they know the others less well, as they see more of them they like the others more and the familiar faces less. Jusy a single debate produced a non-trivial shift, and most of the voters won't have tuned in yet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Tis a good rant, but it is a common feature of patriotism to feel that the country is going to the dogs with the wrong people ascendant. We merely disagree on which faction we despise most.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:



    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.

    Why? You also heard more comments about the cricket the previous time that a key cricket match was last shown live and in full on terrestrial TV - in 2005. Instead of rebuilding the sport on an Ashes triumph, coverage was promptly handed over to Sky and the opportunity was lost. Ever since, and until 2019, we have been reliant on short highlights at best. The question is whether the cricket authorities will have learnt the lesson that live exposure to a mass audience generates interest in a sport.

    More recently the numpties running golf in this country have taken the Sky shilling and in the process have seen golf wiped almost entirely off terrestrial TV, with predictable consequences.
    Add F1 to that list too, only the British GP now free to air. It’s hurting sponsorship rates for the teams as sponsors need large numbers of TV eyeballs. Only 1m or so now watch each race live on Sky, as opposed to 4-6m when it was on terrestrial TV.
    Shouldn't the Sky cash make up for the lack of sponsorship ?
    The for owners, 'liberty media', but not so much for the teams, which then have the knock on impact on their sponsorship.
    I hit 120 last night and decided to port to Teldrassil for the first time this expansion, never felt quite so sad playing a video game before :o
    Oops... yes, it's not there any more... nice moon though...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    It's very hard to argue with that from a centre-left perspective. I envy the Scots the choices they can make. We English are stuck with the nationalist right until, as they will, they balls it all up. At that stage, sense will return - but it will be to a deeply demoralised, stagnant, shrivelled and largely irrelevant country.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Like a lot of people, I think he views the past through rose-tinted spectacles.

    And, it happens right across the political spectrum. So, depending on one's outlook, everything was wonderful (a) in the 1950's, or (b) prior to Thatcher or (c) prior to the 2016 referendum.
    The strangest version of this lies at the core of Brexit: Thatcherites who think everything was better in the 1970s.
    I think for professional people, life in the 1970's was easier than it is today. Making money was easier, the workload was lighter, and the level of regulation a fraction of today's.
    For septuagenarians the main benefit of life in the 1970s was youth.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.
    So you would agree he might do well given his opponents are Corbyn and Swinson? He promoted the Olympics all over the world, I seem to recall he was very prominent in Beijing at the handover. He may not have won the bid but he certainly played a big role. There is no luck in becoming a London Mayor twice over as a Tory. Norris and Goldsmith didn't come close.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1153639652412329984
    Now for some spelling lessons, Ivanka !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1153639652412329984
    Now for some spelling lessons, Ivanka !

    She's also getting ahead of herself, he's not kissed hands yet.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    It's very hard to argue with that from a centre-left perspective. I envy the Scots the choices they can make. We English are stuck with the nationalist right until, as they will, they balls it all up. At that stage, sense will return - but it will be to a deeply demoralised, stagnant, shrivelled and largely irrelevant country.

    Rethink your assumptions. The so-called English nationalist right is ascendant in an environment in which they can sloganise about "Global Britain". If we dissolve the UK, that will be completely irrelevant and we stand a much better chance of England emerging as a self-confident, modern, European nation.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Boris is the blond version of Kweku Adoboli.

    Superficial charm, an easy facility for lies, full of bullshit and bluster, no real achievements, a bit of a bully, utterly selfish and indifferent about the harm caused to others and very bad with money.

    Lots of people bought into the myth while they thought he would make them a lot of money/win them seats. Cruelly let down in Adoboli’s case and destined to be so in Johnson’s, I suspect.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    How long before the u turn on the backstop .

    Problem is for Leavers they need Johnson to succeed . Otherwise the public might rightfully think the problem isn’t the leader but Brexit itself .

    I suspect Bozo will just re package the backstop and call it something else .
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited July 2019
    Boris was a good Mayor, it was a role which suited him perfectly. It's not true that Ken Livingstone was an easy opponent - he was surprisingly popular, and to be fair hadn't been too bad a mayor himself (he went bonkers afterwards, not while he was in office). Yes, you can point to failures by Boris - the Garden Bridge was an attractive idea but should have been canned early, on financial grounds - but he was pretty good on the police, on representing London, on attracting investment, on Boris Bikes, on TfL, and on the Olympics. Of course most of these weren't purely or even mainly down to Boris, but that's inevitable. Above all Boris left the hard work to a good team, and acted as the front-man, which is entirely appropriate for a role like Mayor.

    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    HYUFD said:
    I think we need a Boris anecdote from Byronic to complete the picture.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    nico67 said:

    How long before the u turn on the backstop .

    Problem is for Leavers they need Johnson to succeed . Otherwise the public might rightfully think the problem isn’t the leader but Brexit itself .

    I suspect Bozo will just re package the backstop and call it something else .

    Leavers don't require him to succeed Nono67, if parliament keeps blocking Brexit then there is a ready made excuse, in fact you'd argue the remain supporting May messed up by losing the majority.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    malcolmg said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Tory MPs should be wary of going for Boris too early. They risk being blamed for his failures.

    There's a parallel perhaps with the Owen Smith attempt against Corbyn. For most labour party members, he'd just been elected and they wanted him to have a decent run at it [without continuous undermining from MPs].

    In striking too early, and with an unconvincing candidate, they may have actually entrenched Corbyn for longer.

    interesting times. assuming it is Boris. What if it isn't,...
    If it isn't, 50,000 members will resign and join the Bexit Party at the blatant electoral fraud....
    The Brexit party is a busted flush. Zero MPs and heading for a further flop next week in Brecon
    what if theyre not a party but just a big pressure group ?
    Or a small but well funded one.
    just a well funded pressure group, one trick pony.
    No , that's the SNP, who are prepared to do anything to break up the UK.
    Yeah, apart from opposing Brexit and offering full blooded support (incorrectly imo) to the EU ref II brigade.

    The LD efforts to build bridges and consensus off to its usual good start.
    Hard to build a consensus with numpties who claim we would "sell our grandmothers"... So all's fair in love and war, and expect the SNP to be pulled up every time.
    Given her first proclamation was that as supreme dictator she would not allow the people of Scotland a vote on independence even if 100% wanted a vote. Hardly the sign of a sane person looking for consensus.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    It's very hard to argue with that from a centre-left perspective. I envy the Scots the choices they can make. We English are stuck with the nationalist right until, as they will, they balls it all up. At that stage, sense will return - but it will be to a deeply demoralised, stagnant, shrivelled and largely irrelevant country.

    Rethink your assumptions. The so-called English nationalist right is ascendant in an environment in which they can sloganise about "Global Britain". If we dissolve the UK, that will be completely irrelevant and we stand a much better chance of England emerging as a self-confident, modern, European nation.

    Oh, I agree. But that is going to be a long process. When sense returns - as it will - it will not be to a self, confident, modern, European country.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    TGOHF said:

    This doesn't look good for the Ashes...

    England fast bowler James Anderson has been ruled out of his side's Ashes warm-up Test against Ireland at Lord's. Fast bowlers Mark Wood and Jofra Archer have side strains and were not named in the squad for the Ireland game, which starts on Wednesday.

    Wood is unlikely to be fit before the fourth Ashes Test, which starts on 4 September, while England hope Archer could be available for the second Test, starting on 14 August.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/49082928

    Broad, Woakes and Curran medium fast deliveries aren't exactly going to worry the convicts.

    Christ, there's more cricket? Haven't we had enough?
    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.
    Why ? Cricket is better than all other sports including golf. The Open was a boring tournament this year.

    LOL
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited July 2019
    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.
    So you would agree he might do well given his opponents are Corbyn and Swinson? He promoted the Olympics all over the world, I seem to recall he was very prominent in Beijing at the handover. He may not have won the bid but he certainly played a big role. There is no luck in becoming a London Mayor twice over as a Tory. Norris and Goldsmith didn't come close.
    The Tories had massive poll leads in spring 2008 - YouGov put the Tories on 49% and Labour on 23%. Others were less dramatic but the Tories were still miles ahead. And the shine was already coming off Livingstone with a third even of Labour members refusing to support him.

    He waved a flag at Beijing, and looked a bit silly doing so.

    Of course he might do well. He might also do very badly. In political terms you can argue Trump is doing well and might be re-elected; he is nevertheless a colossal embarrassment for the USA.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Foxy said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Tis a good rant, but it is a common feature of patriotism to feel that the country is going to the dogs with the wrong people ascendant. We merely disagree on which faction we despise most.
    To the Scottish Unionist the idea that we (in the UK) have a common patriotism is an article of faith. Once that's been pissed all over by their fellow Brits, it's not leaving those guys many other places to go.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1153409972513980416

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    HYUFD said:
    I think we need a Boris anecdote from Byronic to complete the picture.
    As a self-declared remainer, surely he would be less complimentary?
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris' win now lead story on ABC news USA, not often the US takes such notice of a new UK PM


    https://abcnews.go.com

    Boris also leads on ABC Australia and CNN

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/?pfmredir=sm

    Brexit has got the UK lots of coverage across the world. We are the global laughing stock.
    No, we are now punching above our weight again, probably for the first time since Thatcher and Blair.

    In a world of Trump, Bolsonaro, Modi and Salvini he is not that different either
    Now you are comparing BoJo to neo-Fascists. Even I don't think BoJo is a fascist but you are hoping he would be one.
  • Strange speech, strange event this morning.
  • MarxMarx Posts: 28
    Wonder what the internal party polling is like. With all the anti-Corbyn comments from both Johnson and Swinson, I'm beginning to suspect that it's a lot stronger for Corbyn‘s Labour than they, and some in the PLP, would like.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Pulpstar said:

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1153639652412329984
    Now for some spelling lessons, Ivanka !

    She's also getting ahead of herself, he's not kissed hands yet.
    I'm more concerned about the forthcoming separation of the country into town fiefdoms....
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.
    So you would agree he might do well given his opponents are Corbyn and Swinson? He promoted the Olympics all over the world, I seem to recall he was very prominent in Beijing at the handover. He may not have won the bid but he certainly played a big role. There is no luck in becoming a London Mayor twice over as a Tory. Norris and Goldsmith didn't come close.
    The Tories had massive poll leads in spring 2008 - YouGov put the Tories on 49% and Labour on 23%. Others were less dramatic but the Tories were still miles ahead. And the shine was already coming off Livingstone with a third even of Labour members refusing to support him.

    He waved a flag at Beijing, and looked a bit silly doing so.

    Of course he might do well. He might also do very badly. In political terms you can argue Trump is doing well and might be re-elected; he is nevertheless a colossal embarrassment for the USA.
    Embarrassment for many yes, but you'd sooner have a successful embarrassment than an unsuccesful likeable PM. I doubt Boris is here to win friends and house points from Guardian readers, just to create his own legacy.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    nico67 said:

    How long before the u turn on the backstop .

    Problem is for Leavers they need Johnson to succeed . Otherwise the public might rightfully think the problem isn’t the leader but Brexit itself .

    I suspect Bozo will just re package the backstop and call it something else .

    How does that change anything?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.
    So you would agree he might do well given his opponents are Corbyn and Swinson? He promoted the Olympics all over the world, I seem to recall he was very prominent in Beijing at the handover. He may not have won the bid but he certainly played a big role. There is no luck in becoming a London Mayor twice over as a Tory. Norris and Goldsmith didn't come close.
    Steve Norris probably would have won in 2008 given the unpopularity of the Brown Government.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    Foxy said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Tis a good rant, but it is a common feature of patriotism to feel that the country is going to the dogs with the wrong people ascendant. We merely disagree on which faction we despise most.
    To the Scottish Unionist the idea that we (in the UK) have a common patriotism is an article of faith. Once that's been pissed all over by their fellow Brits, it's not leaving those guys many other places to go.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1153409972513980416

    Unionists in Scotland and Northern Ireland know as much about the English as the English do about unionists in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

  • Foxy said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Tis a good rant, but it is a common feature of patriotism to feel that the country is going to the dogs with the wrong people ascendant. We merely disagree on which faction we despise most.
    To the Scottish Unionist the idea that we (in the UK) have a common patriotism is an article of faith. Once that's been pissed all over by their fellow Brits, it's not leaving those guys many other places to go.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1153409972513980416

    If the English want rid of us; and why would they not given the loony level of support the seperatists get; then so be it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Cyclefree said:

    Boris is the blond version of Kweku Adoboli.

    Superficial charm, an easy facility for lies, full of bullshit and bluster, no real achievements, a bit of a bully, utterly selfish and indifferent about the harm caused to others and very bad with money.

    Lots of people bought into the myth while they thought he would make them a lot of money/win them seats. Cruelly let down in Adoboli’s case and destined to be so in Johnson’s, I suspect.

    Jimmy Savile is who he most reminds me of.

    Not great. Really wish he didn't.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Marx said:

    Wonder what the internal party polling is like. With all the anti-Corbyn comments from both Johnson and Swinson, I'm beginning to suspect that it's a lot stronger for Corbyn‘s Labour than they, and some in the PLP, would like.

    Judging by Labour over the 24 hours, their internal polling is showing them that they should be very worried about Jo Swinson, much less worried about Boris Johnson.

  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    justin124 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.
    So you would agree he might do well given his opponents are Corbyn and Swinson? He promoted the Olympics all over the world, I seem to recall he was very prominent in Beijing at the handover. He may not have won the bid but he certainly played a big role. There is no luck in becoming a London Mayor twice over as a Tory. Norris and Goldsmith didn't come close.
    Steve Norris probably would have won in 2008 given the unpopularity of the Brown Government.
    I doubt it. Livingstone did a good job of distancing himself from the Labour government. Let's remember this is London we're talking about. To retain it in 2012 was deeply impressive whether you like Boris or not.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited July 2019
    Marx said:

    Wonder what the internal party polling is like. With all the anti-Corbyn comments from both Johnson and Swinson, I'm beginning to suspect that it's a lot stronger for Corbyn‘s Labour than they, and some in the PLP, would like.

    Precious little sign of it either in the polls or at the polls.

    Labour was beaten by the Women’s Equality Party in a London local by-election just last week.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Foxy said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Tis a good rant, but it is a common feature of patriotism to feel that the country is going to the dogs with the wrong people ascendant. We merely disagree on which faction we despise most.
    To the Scottish Unionist the idea that we (in the UK) have a common patriotism is an article of faith. Once that's been pissed all over by their fellow Brits, it's not leaving those guys many other places to go.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1153409972513980416

    If the English want rid of us; and why would they not given the loony level of support the seperatists get; then so be it
    It’s the unionists we’re embarrassed by.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Like a lot of people, I think he views the past through rose-tinted spectacles.

    And, it happens right across the political spectrum. So, depending on one's outlook, everything was wonderful (a) in the 1950's, or (b) prior to Thatcher or (c) prior to the 2016 referendum.
    The strangest version of this lies at the core of Brexit: Thatcherites who think everything was better in the 1970s.
    I think for professional people, life in the 1970's was easier than it is today. Making money was easier, the workload was lighter, and the level of regulation a fraction of today's.
    Not just professional people. Trade Unions were certainly a mixed blessing, but they did achieve big pay rises for the working classes. Their leaders may have been politicaly motivated at times but the members wanted money, to join the consumerist society. Britain was at its most equal then, and 1976 the happiest year on record.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    It's very hard to argue with that from a centre-left perspective. I envy the Scots the choices they can make. We English are stuck with the nationalist right until, as they will, they balls it all up. At that stage, sense will return - but it will be to a deeply demoralised, stagnant, shrivelled and largely irrelevant country.

    I got blocked by Chris Deerin for asking him if he was feeling okay after seeing the first Tory leadership debate. He's an odd guy but probably speaks well to my feeling of alienation from the union at this point. I'm looking for reasons to vote No in any future IndyRef and the Tories and Kippers are doing their best to pluck them away, one by one.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    In other news, LI Peng, the Butcher of Beijing has died. Few tears.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    As expected, Rory Stewart's out.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1153640542812721154

    I wonder what message he's trying to send with the piccie? ;)

    Wild horses couldn't drag him into a Boris Johnson cabinet.
    I love my horse
  • JBriskinindyref2JBriskinindyref2 Posts: 1,775
    edited July 2019

    Foxy said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Tis a good rant, but it is a common feature of patriotism to feel that the country is going to the dogs with the wrong people ascendant. We merely disagree on which faction we despise most.
    To the Scottish Unionist the idea that we (in the UK) have a common patriotism is an article of faith. Once that's been pissed all over by their fellow Brits, it's not leaving those guys many other places to go.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1153409972513980416

    If the English want rid of us; and why would they not given the loony level of support the seperatists get; then so be it
    It’s the unionists we’re embarrassed by.
    If you're English and want an independent Scotland then fine - that's your opinion - your clearly on very opposite sides to me.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617


    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.

    LOL. Closed mind, much?

    The guy has not stepped foot in Downing Street as PM, has made no pronouncements, has made no appointments. Yet you have rushed to judgment. As you rushed to judgment on here about Cameron's "renegotiation" with the EU, telling us what a fabulous effort it was.....
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited July 2019
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Like a lot of people, I think he views the past through rose-tinted spectacles.

    And, it happens right across the political spectrum. So, depending on one's outlook, everything was wonderful (a) in the 1950's, or (b) prior to Thatcher or (c) prior to the 2016 referendum.
    The strangest version of this lies at the core of Brexit: Thatcherites who think everything was better in the 1970s.
    I think for professional people, life in the 1970's was easier than it is today. Making money was easier, the workload was lighter, and the level of regulation a fraction of today's.
    Not just professional people. Trade Unions were certainly a mixed blessing, but they did achieve big pay rises for the working classes. Their leaders may have been politicaly motivated at times but the members wanted money, to join the consumerist society. Britain was at its most equal then, and 1976 the happiest year on record.
    Correct. If you weren't an ethnic minority, Britain was an imperfect but reasonably easy place to live, in 1976.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    timmo said:

    As expected, Rory Stewart's out.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1153640542812721154

    I wonder what message he's trying to send with the piccie? ;)

    Wild horses couldn't drag him into a Boris Johnson cabinet.
    I love my horse
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzYzVMcgWhg
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Brom said:

    justin124 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    Brom said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s been a long time since our country has been in the hands of someone so unsuitable and undeserving. There must have been somebody more recently than King John, but it isn’t obvious who.
    On the contrary, he's going to be a vast improvement on Theresa May, whose only competition but for the grace of god would have been Lord Halifax in 1940.
    Can you actually remember Boris' time as mayor? I mean, jut look at the Garden Bridge, and the way he absolutely refused to even take part in the inquiry when it went on.

    That's the sort of PM he'll be, sadly.
    He was widely regarded as a good Mayor. Certainly with the Olympics. A Tory won't be re-elected Mayor again in my lifetime - it was an incredible achievement given how intolerant London usually is of anyone who isn't left of centre. I'm rather sceptical of his qualities as a PM though.
    He had little to do with the Olympics (indeed Hunt had more). His election victories look less remarkable against the big Tory poll lead the first time and the state of his opponent the second time. He has been incredibly lucky; we’ll have to see whether this continues.
    So you would agree he might do well given his opponents are Corbyn and Swinson? He promoted the Olympics all over the world, I seem to recall he was very prominent in Beijing at the handover. He may not have won the bid but he certainly played a big role. There is no luck in becoming a London Mayor twice over as a Tory. Norris and Goldsmith didn't come close.
    Steve Norris probably would have won in 2008 given the unpopularity of the Brown Government.
    I doubt it. Livingstone did a good job of distancing himself from the Labour government. Let's remember this is London we're talking about. To retain it in 2012 was deeply impressive whether you like Boris or not.
    By 2012 Livingstone was badly tainted - Boris would have lost decisively to other Labour candidates such as Tessa Jowell. Moreover, London has not always been a Labour city - in 1987 the Tories did exceptionally well there. Then there was Horace Cutler as leader of the GLC.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    HYUFD said:

    No, we are now punching above our weight again, probably for the first time since Thatcher and Blair.

    In a world of Trump, Bolsonaro, Modi and Salvini he is not that different either

    I don't think he's like any of them. Boris is unfit for high office in his own very special way. Unfair on him to deny that.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    I’m sitting on the steps of the Hotel de Ville in divine Château-Gontier, in 39°C heat, while gorgeous tanned French belles saunter past, about to find a bar that will sell me a cold beer (or better still, a Norman cider). Have I missed anything?

    (Sorry. In SeanT’s absence I thought a comment in his style would be fitting. It is true though.)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    Foxy said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Tis a good rant, but it is a common feature of patriotism to feel that the country is going to the dogs with the wrong people ascendant. We merely disagree on which faction we despise most.
    To the Scottish Unionist the idea that we (in the UK) have a common patriotism is an article of faith. Once that's been pissed all over by their fellow Brits, it's not leaving those guys many other places to go.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1153409972513980416

    Unionists in Scotland and Northern Ireland know as much about the English as the English do about unionists in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

    Given the mixed message of every Tory pol & their granny saying how precious the Union is to them while the Tory and Brexity masses couldn't give a fig for it, you can't really blame your average Scottish Unionist for their bewilderment and/or ignorance.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    What strikes me, listening to the phone ins, is the sheer range of issues people want sorted.
    Brexit really has sucked the life out of everything for 3 years plus.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900

    Boris was a good Mayor, it was a role which suited him perfectly. It's not true that Ken Livingstone was an easy opponent - he was surprisingly popular, and to be fair hadn't been too bad a mayor himself (he went bonkers afterwards, not while he was in office). Yes, you can point to failures by Boris - the Garden Bridge was an attractive idea but should have been canned early, on financial grounds - but he was pretty good on the police, on representing London, on attracting investment, on Boris Bikes, on TfL, and on the Olympics. Of course most of these weren't purely or even mainly down to Boris, but that's inevitable. Above all Boris left the hard work to a good team, and acted as the front-man, which is entirely appropriate for a role like Mayor.

    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.

    I disagree completely on the Police - Boris orchestrated the sale of stations and reductions in numbers which has had and continues to have a huge impact on crime in the capital. I will concede Theresa May needs to bear her share of the blame as well.

    As far as the Olympics were concerned, they were won on Ken's watch but held on Boris's and were a huge success so kudos to them both.

    I can also not forgive Boris for refusing to move ahead with meaningful options to provide additional river crossings to the east of Tower Bridge. A bridge at Beckton was shelved and we remain reliant on the clapped out Rotherhithe and Blackwall Tunnels and the inadequate Woolwich Ferry to provide river crossings along the so-called Thames Corridor (I do note the DLR tunnel to Woolwich but that has limited value).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    I’m sitting on the steps of the Hotel de Ville in divine Château-Gontier, in 39°C heat, while gorgeous tanned French belles saunter past, about to find a bar that will sell me a cold beer (or better still, a Norman cider). Have I missed anything?

    (Sorry. In SeanT’s absence I thought a comment in his style would be fitting. It is true though.)

    Not really. Slightly more than the average amount of whinging.
  • Foxy said:

    A (perhaps ex) Unionist speaks at the dawn of BJ world.

    'The growing case for Scottish independence won’t be stopped through appeals to patriotism'

    https://tinyurl.com/y5bxdgcw

    I particularly liked

    'For me, it is hard, today, to love one’s country. I do not feel very much like a patriot; I have never felt less like a patriot. I more often feel the unsought and unwelcome twitch of contempt, or the acid flash of rage. The good guys keep losing and the bad guys keep winning. Those who most extravagantly display the peacock feathers of their patriotism do so in ways that tarnish the very concept, whether turning their blazered backs in the European parliament, or waving a plasticated kipper around a stage, or sneering at the Irish, or offering up their pale, plump backsides as a smirking Donald Trump loosens his belt, or threatening to temporarily abolish parliament in pursuit of their otherwise unachievable goal. I am left thinking, what is this Britain? What have these people to do with me? Why must I be subject to their games and ambitions?'

    Tis a good rant, but it is a common feature of patriotism to feel that the country is going to the dogs with the wrong people ascendant. We merely disagree on which faction we despise most.
    To the Scottish Unionist the idea that we (in the UK) have a common patriotism is an article of faith. Once that's been pissed all over by their fellow Brits, it's not leaving those guys many other places to go.

    https://twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1153409972513980416

    Unionists in Scotland and Northern Ireland know as much about the English as the English do about unionists in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

    Given the mixed message of every Tory pol & their granny saying how precious the Union is to them while the Tory and Brexity masses couldn't give a fig for it, you can't really blame your average Scottish Unionist for their bewilderment and/or ignorance.
    It's Scotland that's been divided in 4 by the 2 refs

    You're apparently loving it.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084

    Marx said:

    Wonder what the internal party polling is like. With all the anti-Corbyn comments from both Johnson and Swinson, I'm beginning to suspect that it's a lot stronger for Corbyn‘s Labour than they, and some in the PLP, would like.

    Judging by Labour over the 24 hours, their internal polling is showing them that they should be very worried about Jo Swinson, much less worried about Boris Johnson.

    We see Labour are in serious trouble in London and in some critical areas in the Midlands and the North of England. No recovery in Scotland, but still leading in much of the North. The Tories are in trouble in Scotland and being squeezed in the South West.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826


    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.

    LOL. Closed mind, much?

    The guy has not stepped foot in Downing Street as PM, has made no pronouncements, has made no appointments. Yet you have rushed to judgment. As you rushed to judgment on here about Cameron's "renegotiation" with the EU, telling us what a fabulous effort it was.....
    As he rushed to judgement that there was no possible benefits from Brexit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    dixiedean said:

    What strikes me, listening to the phone ins, is the sheer range of issues people want sorted.
    Brexit really has sucked the life out of everything for 3 years plus.

    I honestly believed that I would never see a worse PM than Gordon Brown. But I have. The last 3 years have been a terrible mistake. Things can only get better, I think the song goes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    HYUFD said:
    I think we need a Boris anecdote from Byronic to complete the picture.
    Will it be strawberry flavoured?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    What strikes me, listening to the phone ins, is the sheer range of issues people want sorted.
    Brexit really has sucked the life out of everything for 3 years plus.

    I honestly believed that I would never see a worse PM than Gordon Brown. But I have. The last 3 years have been a terrible mistake. Things can only get better, I think the song goes.
    ya think ? :smiley:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    I’m sitting on the steps of the Hotel de Ville in divine Château-Gontier, in 39°C heat, while gorgeous tanned French belles saunter past, about to find a bar that will sell me a cold beer (or better still, a Norman cider). Have I missed anything?

    (Sorry. In SeanT’s absence I thought a comment in his style would be fitting. It is true though.)

    I holidayed near Domfront last year, lovely part of the world, perhaps a refreshing glass of Poiree would be best ?
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589


    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.

    LOL. Closed mind, much?

    The guy has not stepped foot in Downing Street as PM, has made no pronouncements, has made no appointments. Yet you have rushed to judgment. As you rushed to judgment on here about Cameron's "renegotiation" with the EU, telling us what a fabulous effort it was.....
    As he rushed to judgement that there was no possible benefits from Brexit.
    Well, if you consider being roundly buggered by large American companies a benefit it might be fun. I prefer the French style of making economic love myself.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340


    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.

    LOL. Closed mind, much?

    The guy has not stepped foot in Downing Street as PM, has made no pronouncements, has made no appointments. Yet you have rushed to judgment. As you rushed to judgment on here about Cameron's "renegotiation" with the EU, telling us what a fabulous effort it was.....
    As he rushed to judgement that there was no possible benefits from Brexit.
    There haven’t been any yet. The nation is in a state of atrophy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    What strikes me, listening to the phone ins, is the sheer range of issues people want sorted.
    Brexit really has sucked the life out of everything for 3 years plus.

    I honestly believed that I would never see a worse PM than Gordon Brown. But I have. The last 3 years have been a terrible mistake. Things can only get better, I think the song goes.
    ya think ? :smiley:
    Yes. May had appalling judgment, complete intransigence, was a very, very poor selector of advisors, promoted mediocrity, god she was awful. Boris will make mistakes but he will try to do things.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707

    Boris was a good Mayor, it was a role which suited him perfectly. It's not true that Ken Livingstone was an easy opponent - he was surprisingly popular, and to be fair hadn't been too bad a mayor himself (he went bonkers afterwards, not while he was in office). Yes, you can point to failures by Boris - the Garden Bridge was an attractive idea but should have been canned early, on financial grounds - but he was pretty good on the police, on representing London, on attracting investment, on Boris Bikes, on TfL, and on the Olympics. Of course most of these weren't purely or even mainly down to Boris, but that's inevitable. Above all Boris left the hard work to a good team, and acted as the front-man, which is entirely appropriate for a role like Mayor.

    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.

    "the Garden Bridge was an attractive idea "

    What makes you say that? It did not serve a purpose. It was not a proper transport link, and it was in the wrong place.

    It was something Boris did for his mates, and the whole scheme was borderline fraudulent from the off. Everyone involved should pay back the millions that were spent.

    It is the major factor that makes it impossible for me to support him as PM, or the party he leads. And as a Conservative, what should worry you more is that he could not even be arsed to accept responsibility.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1153639652412329984
    Now for some spelling lessons, Ivanka !

    United Kingston is a breakaway pro-EU, LibDem-administered republic with land on both sides of the River Thames, hence the name "united" :)
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Boris surging on the YouGov live poll.... now just less than half of the public are "dismayed" about him winning:

    1. Boris Johnson has been announced as the new leader of the Conservative party. Which of the following best reflects your reaction to Boris Johnson becoming leader?
    Delighted 13%
    Pleased 16%
    Disappointed 8%
    Dismayed 48%
    Don't really mind either way 10%
    Don't know 5%
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    What strikes me, listening to the phone ins, is the sheer range of issues people want sorted.
    Brexit really has sucked the life out of everything for 3 years plus.

    I honestly believed that I would never see a worse PM than Gordon Brown. But I have. The last 3 years have been a terrible mistake. Things can only get better, I think the song goes.
    ya think ? :smiley:
    Yes. May had appalling judgment, complete intransigence, was a very, very poor selector of advisors, promoted mediocrity, god she was awful. Boris will make mistakes but he will try to do things.
    Something must be done, this is something, we must do that. I think I'd prefer inertia.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    dixiedean said:

    What strikes me, listening to the phone ins, is the sheer range of issues people want sorted.
    Brexit really has sucked the life out of everything for 3 years plus.


    As predicted:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/08/18/how-brexit-is-blinding-us-resulting-in-other-massive-issues-being-ignored/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    Boris was a good Mayor, it was a role which suited him perfectly. It's not true that Ken Livingstone was an easy opponent - he was surprisingly popular, and to be fair hadn't been too bad a mayor himself (he went bonkers afterwards, not while he was in office). Yes, you can point to failures by Boris - the Garden Bridge was an attractive idea but should have been canned early, on financial grounds - but he was pretty good on the police, on representing London, on attracting investment, on Boris Bikes, on TfL, and on the Olympics. Of course most of these weren't purely or even mainly down to Boris, but that's inevitable. Above all Boris left the hard work to a good team, and acted as the front-man, which is entirely appropriate for a role like Mayor.

    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.

    "the Garden Bridge was an attractive idea "

    What makes you say that? It did not serve a purpose. It was not a proper transport link, and it was in the wrong place.

    It was something Boris did for his mates, and the whole scheme was borderline fraudulent from the off. Everyone involved should pay back the millions that were spent.

    It is the major factor that makes it impossible for me to support him as PM, or the party he leads. And as a Conservative, what should worry you more is that he could not even be arsed to accept responsibility.
    I can’t think of any of Boris’s schemes that came in on budget or met up to his promises. Even the relatively successful bike scheme had to be bailed out by EU funding and runs at a loss, whereas Paris’s makes a profit. The West Ham/Olympic stadium episode was a financial disaster. The cable car was all cost and no benefit. The water cannons were useless and sold for scrap. The millions spent on the Island Airport were obviously being wasted from the outset. Etc.
  • Question for the PB Cybernats-

    Will you stop polluting this UK based website when you get your political dream?

    Or might you decide to keep posting cus, yknow it's quite good and , y'know there's not or ever going to be a Scottish version

    I'm not sure the Jackie Bird lovers have thought things through.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    TGOHF said:

    This doesn't look good for the Ashes...

    England fast bowler James Anderson has been ruled out of his side's Ashes warm-up Test against Ireland at Lord's. Fast bowlers Mark Wood and Jofra Archer have side strains and were not named in the squad for the Ireland game, which starts on Wednesday.

    Wood is unlikely to be fit before the fourth Ashes Test, which starts on 4 September, while England hope Archer could be available for the second Test, starting on 14 August.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/49082928

    Broad, Woakes and Curran medium fast deliveries aren't exactly going to worry the convicts.

    Christ, there's more cricket? Haven't we had enough?
    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.
    Why ? Cricket is better than all other sports including golf. The Open was a boring tournament this year.

    One-day cricket = boring
    Test cricket = extremely boring. Ennui.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    OnboardG1 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    What strikes me, listening to the phone ins, is the sheer range of issues people want sorted.
    Brexit really has sucked the life out of everything for 3 years plus.

    I honestly believed that I would never see a worse PM than Gordon Brown. But I have. The last 3 years have been a terrible mistake. Things can only get better, I think the song goes.
    ya think ? :smiley:
    Yes. May had appalling judgment, complete intransigence, was a very, very poor selector of advisors, promoted mediocrity, god she was awful. Boris will make mistakes but he will try to do things.
    Something must be done, this is something, we must do that. I think I'd prefer inertia.
    Nope. We have had 3 years of inertia. It didn't work.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    HYUFD said:
    I think we need a Boris anecdote from Byronic to complete the picture.
    Will it be strawberry flavoured?
    Suck it and see.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    One of the more incomprehensible parts of all of this is that various bods will pay huge amounts of money for Boris to give them a speech after he leaves office whether he's a success or failure.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    IanB2 said:

    Boris was a good Mayor, it was a role which suited him perfectly. It's not true that Ken Livingstone was an easy opponent - he was surprisingly popular, and to be fair hadn't been too bad a mayor himself (he went bonkers afterwards, not while he was in office). Yes, you can point to failures by Boris - the Garden Bridge was an attractive idea but should have been canned early, on financial grounds - but he was pretty good on the police, on representing London, on attracting investment, on Boris Bikes, on TfL, and on the Olympics. Of course most of these weren't purely or even mainly down to Boris, but that's inevitable. Above all Boris left the hard work to a good team, and acted as the front-man, which is entirely appropriate for a role like Mayor.

    Being PM, especially in the current situation, is a very different kettle of fish, and he's already blown it.

    "the Garden Bridge was an attractive idea "

    What makes you say that? It did not serve a purpose. It was not a proper transport link, and it was in the wrong place.

    It was something Boris did for his mates, and the whole scheme was borderline fraudulent from the off. Everyone involved should pay back the millions that were spent.

    It is the major factor that makes it impossible for me to support him as PM, or the party he leads. And as a Conservative, what should worry you more is that he could not even be arsed to accept responsibility.
    I can’t think of any of Boris’s schemes that came in on budget or met up to his promises. Even the relatively successful bike scheme had to be bailed out by EU funding and runs at a loss, whereas Paris’s makes a profit. The West Ham/Olympic stadium episode was a financial disaster. The cable car was all cost and no benefit. The water cannons were useless and sold for scrap. The millions spent on the Island Airport were obviously being wasted from the outset. Etc.
    He cancelled a really useful bridge that would have been built in east London.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Gateway_Bridge

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    DavidL said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    What strikes me, listening to the phone ins, is the sheer range of issues people want sorted.
    Brexit really has sucked the life out of everything for 3 years plus.

    I honestly believed that I would never see a worse PM than Gordon Brown. But I have. The last 3 years have been a terrible mistake. Things can only get better, I think the song goes.
    ya think ? :smiley:
    Yes. May had appalling judgment, complete intransigence, was a very, very poor selector of advisors, promoted mediocrity, god she was awful. Boris will make mistakes but he will try to do things.
    Something must be done, this is something, we must do that. I think I'd prefer inertia.
    Nope. We have had 3 years of inertia. It didn't work.
    I think Boris Johnson’s most viable strategy is inertia.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    TGOHF said:

    This doesn't look good for the Ashes...

    England fast bowler James Anderson has been ruled out of his side's Ashes warm-up Test against Ireland at Lord's. Fast bowlers Mark Wood and Jofra Archer have side strains and were not named in the squad for the Ireland game, which starts on Wednesday.

    Wood is unlikely to be fit before the fourth Ashes Test, which starts on 4 September, while England hope Archer could be available for the second Test, starting on 14 August.

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/49082928

    Broad, Woakes and Curran medium fast deliveries aren't exactly going to worry the convicts.

    Christ, there's more cricket? Haven't we had enough?
    What surprised me about this summer of sport is hearing more comments on the cricket than the Open golf.
    Why ? Cricket is better than all other sports including golf. The Open was a boring tournament this year.

    One-day cricket = boring
    Test cricket = extremely boring. Ennui.
    Travelling by Pacer on a northern branch line, calling at all stations = exciting?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900


    United Kingston is a breakaway pro-EU, LibDem-administered republic with land on both sides of the River Thames, hence the name "united" :)

    Imagine if every London Borough was an independent nation. I'd be on the borders of the People's Republic of Newham and the Barking & Dagenham Co-Prosperity Sphere and close to the Redbridge Regency. The border on the North Circular Road is always tense but as nothing compared to the skirmishes with the Tower Hamlets Federation around Canning Town.

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