Feels intrusive to comment, but Javid was quite impressive (the Islamophobia investigation coup was neatly done) and Hunt and Gove both sounded serious and intelligent. Johnson was really keen not to offer hostages to fortune and almost succeeded, but he looked shifty and that October 31 commitment looks very shaky now that Raab is conveniently out of the way (Farage will pounce on that), and the tax cut for higher earners has turned into a vague aspiration. Stewart looked like a trainee.
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
I think I would respect your personal views far more if they were actually that, personal views. I’m afraid relating everything to an opinion poll makes what could be an interesting contribution tedious. I respect your loyalty to a cause and you actually remain polite which a lot of us can’t but to be honest they don’t have to deliver brexit especially if they think it’s wrong. In fact it is their duty to not deliver brexit in those circumstances, I refer you to Erskin May concerning the responsibility of MPs
Feels intrusive to comment, but Javid was quite impressive (the Islamophobia investigation coup was neatly done) and Hunt and Gove both sounded serious and intelligent. Johnson was really keen not to offer hostages to fortune and almost succeeded, but he looked shifty and that October 31 commitment looks very shaky now that Raab is conveniently out of the way (Farage will pounce on that), and the tax cut for higher earners has turned into a vague aspiration. Stewart looked like a trainee.
It's a pity Emily Maitlis wasn't standing. She seemed so much more intelligent and assured than all of them
Boris- a bit too safe and subdued. He should remember he is liked by the GBP and especially the tory faithful because he is a little eccentric and unguarded in his humour. Hunt - solid as expected. He is safe but boring Gove - Not a great debater in the TV sense . A good orator at times . Showed tonight . Maybe his natural politeness go tin the way tonight and he got brushed aside. Saj - Ok in the sense that if it was a job interview for a role to act as a normal British bloke he would have go the job. Not sure any gravitas came through. Rory - Well its a theory that spouting left wing views especially about taxation will win a tory leadership contest but it seems err brave.
Winner - probably the labour party sadly - Boris is right that blue on blue is not good . Hunt was ok the rest below par.
There is nothing left-wing about saying that we can't spend money we don't have. In fact, it used to be a rather Conservative position.
Rory stands for sound finances. The others were competing to spend money like it was going out of fashion. That is ceding ground to Labour.
I think he said that not only would he not cut tax but he would invest (ie increase spending ) on public services - Ie spend more money, its a valid view but not a great one to win a tory leadership race !
Stewart very obviously couldn't believe what morons they all were. And boy were they morons
So is Stewart in the wrong party?
In the sense that the Tories are actually the 'Brexit at all costs, even the destruction of the UK' party, certainly. Has some other positions that seem out of keeping with the majority of the party too, just a question of it it is at the point where staying in just seems ridiculous given how far away he is. Probably not in that case.
Stewart very obviously couldn't believe what morons they all were. And boy were they morons
Yes. I think he will likely go out now because he is clever and perhaps is not as good as he ought to be at hiding that he thinks the others are not thinking straight and honestly about the issues. That will not get him votes from MPs stupider than him.
Also he looked somehow uncomfortable - physically - and I don't think the format suited him. He wanted to have a proper debate and there was a lot of noise, from the others, from Maitlis trying to intervene and being ignored and no point was allowed to be explored. So he came across as weirder than normal.
Certainly he was much much better last night in the flesh - both in speaking and in responding to questions - than he was tonight.
I still think, though, that he is the most thoughtful and honest candidate of all of them. And perhaps it is best for him not be leader now with the hospital pass of Brexit to deal with. Let others make a mess of it and then come back later.
Looks shouldnt matter but they do, (it didnt help May). Rory is odd looking at the best of times, but tonight looked like he was having a panic attack - taking his tie off, looking at the floor, stretching. I have had anxiety myself and they are all classic go to moves when you feel the walls closing in.
I'm clearly out of touch here, because I'm mystified by Betfair's reaction. Stewart out a decent slug, Gove and Hunt benefiting. I felt everyone did basically what I'd expect them to do - this didn't change anything in my mind. Does that mean Betfair had priced in a Rory stormer, or did it see something more than 'What you'd expect from all 5 given their campaigns so far'?
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Latest YouGov of BP 24%, Tories 21%, Labour 21%, LDs 19% gives Labour 210, BP 159, Tories 155, SNP 56, LDs 47, Plaid 5, DUP 10.
So BP + Tories + DUP = 324 and a majority excluding SF with the BP the largest party of the 3
Stewart very obviously couldn't believe what morons they all were. And boy were they morons
Yes. I think he will likely go out now because he is clever and perhaps is not as good as he ought to be at hiding that he thinks the others are not thinking straight and honestly about the issues. That will not get him votes from MPs stupider than him.
Also he looked somehow uncomfortable - physically - and I don't think the format suited him. He wanted to have a proper debate and there was a lot of noise, from the others, from Maitlis trying to intervene and being ignored and no point was allowed to be explored. So he came across as weirder than normal.
Certainly he was much much better last night in the flesh - both in speaking and in responding to questions - than he was tonight.
I still think, though, that he is the most thoughtful and honest candidate of all of them. And perhaps it is best for him not be leader now with the hospital pass of Brexit to deal with. Let others make a mess of it and then come back later.
Looks shouldnt matter but they do, (it didnt help May). Rory is odd looking at the best of times, but tonight looked like he was having a panic attack - taking his tie off, looking at the floor, stretching. I have had anxiety myself and they are all classic go to moves when you feel the walls closing in.
It was really weird, and I agree entirely that looks shouldn't matter but always will.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Foxy has now been driven from the room by Mrs Foxy and Fox jr switching over to watch the fluffing, teasing, manipulation, controlling behaviour and macho posturing of Love Island. Gluttons for punishment...after watching the other airheads.
Gove: managed to look less nutty than Sunday most of the time.
Johnson: clearly unsuitable for any responsible role in society.
Hunt: hoping to slip through by keeping quiet.
Javid: beginning to look like a Prime Minister. The only one with some emotional intelligence on display. Too bald, Muslim and far behind to win. Next out in the sack race.
Stewart: beginning to take the piss now as the jester speaking truth about the Court favourite. Dangerous. No tie and manspreading beyond reasonable limits.
Raab: No tears for todays loser. You don't win their votes by threatening your own MPs with suspension. Good riddance.
Interesting results today. Not much gain for Boris, clearly the majority of the votes of McVey, Leadsom, Hancock and the invisible man did go to anti Boris candidates. I would think Raabs will be the same, with most going to one or other Stop Boris faction. Clearly Brexit is not the only factor in how votes move between rounds, personal experience and familiarity matters more.
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Hyufd is not clueless, just besotted with his own views and parrots loads of nonsense but,to be fair, he does add to the amusement
Poor sod spent three years defending Theresa May and is showing understandable signs of battle fatigue. Give him a break.
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
I think I would respect your personal views far more if they were actually that, personal views. I’m afraid relating everything to an opinion poll makes what could be an interesting contribution tedious. I respect your loyalty to a cause and you actually remain polite which a lot of us can’t but to be honest they don’t have to deliver brexit especially if they think it’s wrong. In fact it is their duty to not deliver brexit in those circumstances, I refer you to Erskin May concerning the responsibility of MPs
Well views are all well and good (and I express them often enough) but the only evidence we have are polls and the fact remains if MPs do not respect the Leave vote and deliver Brexit they are opening the way for Farage to do so instead
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Hyufd is not clueless, just besotted with his own views and parrots loads of nonsense but,to be fair, he does add to the amusement
Poor sod spent three years defending Theresa May and is showing understandable signs of battle fatigue. Give him a break.
Interesting that the only man to consistently laud the 1/6 fav when others were imploring us to lay him at 5/1 is the court jester. The Emperor's are looking great in their clothes tonight
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Hyufd is not clueless, just besotted with his own views and parrots loads of nonsense but,to be fair, he does add to the amusement
I say what I think and look at what the polls show but beyond that what you think of me is entirely up to you, it does not really bother me either way, I am only a poster on a website but glad I at least add some amusement to your retirement BigG
I'm clearly out of touch here, because I'm mystified by Betfair's reaction. Stewart out a decent slug, Gove and Hunt benefiting. I felt everyone did basically what I'd expect them to do - this didn't change anything in my mind. Does that mean Betfair had priced in a Rory stormer, or did it see something more than 'What you'd expect from all 5 given their campaigns so far'?
It's annoying because had I not wet the bed at 5.50pm and backed Rory at 13.5 to level up I could have done it now at 25 far more cheaply. But you never know these things.
Stewart very obviously couldn't believe what morons they all were. And boy were they morons
So is Stewart in the wrong party?
As someone being fiscally prudent, he was the only tory I recognised.... Weird that people think he's not a proper tory.... He also right about dilnott and social care. It was exasperating viewing and clear he felt the same.
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Feels intrusive to comment, but Javid was quite impressive (the Islamophobia investigation coup was neatly done) and Hunt and Gove both sounded serious and intelligent. Johnson was really keen not to offer hostages to fortune and almost succeeded, but he looked shifty and that October 31 commitment looks very shaky now that Raab is conveniently out of the way (Farage will pounce on that), and the tax cut for higher earners has turned into a vague aspiration. Stewart looked like a trainee.
Boris's lack of match practice showed tonight. He suffered from having boycotted the Channel 4 debate and press hustings. If I were an MP backing him, I might still consider him my best chance of holding my seat, but I'd start to think back and wonder whether he had actually given the policy commitments I thought he had.
Boris- a bit too safe and subdued. He should remember he is liked by the GBP and especially the tory faithful because he is a little eccentric and unguarded in his humour. Hunt - solid as expected. He is safe but boring Gove - Not a great debater in the TV sense . A good orator at times . Showed tonight . Maybe his natural politeness go tin the way tonight and he got brushed aside. Saj - Ok in the sense that if it was a job interview for a role to act as a normal British bloke he would have go the job. Not sure any gravitas came through. Rory - Well its a theory that spouting left wing views especially about taxation will win a tory leadership contest but it seems err brave.
Winner - probably the labour party sadly - Boris is right that blue on blue is not good . Hunt was ok the rest below par.
There is nothing left-wing about saying that we can't spend money we don't have. In fact, it used to be a rather Conservative position.
Rory stands for sound finances. The others were competing to spend money like it was going out of fashion. That is ceding ground to Labour.
I think he said that not only would he not cut tax but he would invest (ie increase spending ) on public services - Ie spend more money, its a valid view but not a great one to win a tory leadership race !
He should have stated he believes in keeping the burden of taxation low and fair as well.
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Hyufd is not clueless, just besotted with his own views and parrots loads of nonsense but,to be fair, he does add to the amusement
I say what I think and look at what the polls show but beyond that what you think of me is entirely up to you, it does not really bother me either way, I am only a poster on a website but glad I at least add some amusement to your retirement BigG
Format too undignified for Rory. He needs a podium behind which he is quickly able to develop some JFK-like dignified charisma. Bearpit atmosphere suited Boris and Javid most, I would say.
Feels intrusive to comment, but Javid was quite impressive (the Islamophobia investigation coup was neatly done) and Hunt and Gove both sounded serious and intelligent. Johnson was really keen not to offer hostages to fortune and almost succeeded, but he looked shifty and that October 31 commitment looks very shaky now that Raab is conveniently out of the way (Farage will pounce on that), and the tax cut for higher earners has turned into a vague aspiration. Stewart looked like a trainee.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
So, we have a bunch of Tories who want to hugely increase public spending on health, social care, education, local authority services, anything else anyone wanted to ask about AND have lots of tax cuts as well, not least for those earning £79K a year.
But they really care about public borrowing (well, except for Javid).
We have 2 committed to leaving on 31st October come hell or high water. We have 2 committed to leaving without a deal if necessary but not necessarily on that date.
And then we have Rory. I think people are right to ask if he is in the right party. I am not a member but I frankly wonder if I can believe any of them. Its interesting to think about what Ruth would have done tonight. Shown a bit of wit for a start.
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
I think I would respect your personal views far more if they were actually that, personal views. I’m afraid relating everything to an opinion poll makes what could be an interesting contribution tedious. I respect your loyalty to a cause and you actually remain polite which a lot of us can’t but to be honest they don’t have to deliver brexit especially if they think it’s wrong. In fact it is their duty to not deliver brexit in those circumstances, I refer you to Erskin May concerning the responsibility of MPs
Well views are all well and good (and I express them often enough) but the only evidence we have are polls and the fact remains if MPs do not respect the Leave vote and deliver Brexit they are opening the way for Farage to do so instead
And what happens after that when reality bites Farage too.
Stewart very obviously couldn't believe what morons they all were. And boy were they morons
So is Stewart in the wrong party?
As someone being fiscally prudent, he was the only tory I recognised.... Weird that people think he's not a proper tory.... He also right about dilnott and social care. It was exasperating viewing and clear he felt the same.
Rory made spreadsheet Phil look like a ray of sunshine on fiscal matters.
Foxy has now been driven from the room by Mrs Foxy and Fox jr switching over to watch the fluffing, teasing, manipulation, controlling behaviour and macho posturing of Love Island. Gluttons for punishment...after watching the other airheads.
Gove: managed to look less nutty than Sunday most of the time.
Johnson: clearly unsuitable for any responsible role in society.
Hunt: hoping to slip through by keeping quiet.
Javid: beginning to look like a Prime Minister. The only one with some emotional intelligence on display. Too bald, Muslim and far behind to win. Next out in the sack race.
Stewart: beginning to take the piss now as the jester speaking truth about the Court favourite. Dangerous. No tie and manspreading beyond reasonable limits.
Raab: No tears for todays loser. You don't win their votes by threatening your own MPs with suspension. Good riddance.
Interesting results today. Not much gain for Boris, clearly the majority of the votes of McVey, Leadsom, Hancock and the invisible man did go to anti Boris candidates. I would think Raabs will be the same, with most going to one or other Stop Boris faction. Clearly Brexit is not the only factor in how votes move between rounds, personal experience and familiarity matters more.
I think Rory has decided that being the "speak truth to power" Tory is his shtick and he's going to stay with it. It likely won't work now but could very well stand him in good stead in the future and he's done enough to raise his profile and make himself seem like a serious politician (remember he's only been in the Cabinet about 5 minutes) that any future PM will have to pay attention to him and/or offer him a job (other than Boris).
If Brexit ends up being the mess I think it will be there will come a time when even the Tories will start listening to an honest speak-as-you-find politician. And if that doesn't happen there is plenty else he can be doing.
I'm glad that Javid got agreement on the anti-Muslim issue. Something I've argued for on here. Deftly done and good for the Tories if they follow through.
Stewart very obviously couldn't believe what morons they all were. And boy were they morons
So is Stewart in the wrong party?
As someone being fiscally prudent, he was the only tory I recognised.... Weird that people think he's not a proper tory.... He also right about dilnott and social care. It was exasperating viewing and clear he felt the same.
Rory made spreadsheet Phil look like a ray of sunshine on fiscal matters.
Don't lay Rory after the 2nd ballot, I said to myself, wait until the Twitterati are gushing over how liberal he was in the debate and he drifts in a bit further, I said. D'oh.
We've all been guilty of that.
He might drift in again overnight.
In the sense of washing up on the beach?
Good one.
Markets tend to overreact and many punters will take another view in the morning once the papers write it up.
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Hyufd is not clueless, just besotted with his own views and parrots loads of nonsense but,to be fair, he does add to the amusement
Poor sod spent three years defending Theresa May and is showing understandable signs of battle fatigue. Give him a break.
He is consistent and I for one like him , even if eccentric and a Tory.
Javid probably came across best, but Christ that was a dispiriting shitestorm all around. Really disappointed in Rory who seemed somehow deflated just when he should've been utterly pumped up. Did he get a text that his cat died just before going on air or something?
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
Boris will seal the deal for us, the sooner he is crowned King of England the better.
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
I think I would respect your personal views far more if they were actually that, personal views. I’m afraid relating everything to an opinion poll makes what could be an interesting contribution tedious. I respect your loyalty to a cause and you actually remain polite which a lot of us can’t but to be honest they don’t have to deliver brexit especially if they think it’s wrong. In fact it is their duty to not deliver brexit in those circumstances, I refer you to Erskin May concerning the responsibility of MPs
Well views are all well and good (and I express them often enough) but the only evidence we have are polls and the fact remains if MPs do not respect the Leave vote and deliver Brexit they are opening the way for Farage to do so instead
And what happens after that when reality bites Farage too.
Farage does not need to worry about reality as his core vote are all hard Brexit fanatics anyway, however at that point if hard Brexit does go wrong (at least having been delivered by Boris or Farage) then the likes of Umunna and Stewart would have their chance
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Hyufd is not clueless, just besotted with his own views and parrots loads of nonsense but,to be fair, he does add to the amusement
His posts are useful in understanding his own party, but his thoughts are far too rigid to understand Labour, Lib Dems and other parties. He hasn't a clue about that wider political world. So for this contest his views are helpful, otherwise pretty useless.
But the most of us anonymous posters are much the same. Even though my mother is a member of the Tories for more than 6 decades, I cannot fathom a party willing to consider Boris as Prime Minister.
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Hyufd is not clueless, just besotted with his own views and parrots loads of nonsense but,to be fair, he does add to the amusement
I say what I think and look at what the polls show but beyond that what you think of me is entirely up to you, it does not really bother me either way, I am only a poster on a website but glad I at least add some amusement to your retirement BigG
Very brawly atmosphere, which Emily Maitlis tends to create, also then accentuated by them sitting down closely together. Almost looked like a typical bad-tempered close of Newsnight roundtable discussion. Javid emerged as a fighter, Rory's dignity for another day, probably the next election where he might be the frontrunner.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
Boris will seal the deal for us, the sooner he is crowned King of England the better.
Cheerio Scotland! Easier for CON to get an overall majority!
I'm clearly out of touch here, because I'm mystified by Betfair's reaction. Stewart out a decent slug, Gove and Hunt benefiting. I felt everyone did basically what I'd expect them to do - this didn't change anything in my mind. Does that mean Betfair had priced in a Rory stormer, or did it see something more than 'What you'd expect from all 5 given their campaigns so far'?
He had a bit of a stormer on C4 the other nite but the format suited him much better - studio audience and a sharper presenter who put the questions and controlled the argument. Also, there were clear indications that Hunt, Gove and Javid were tag-teaming to drown him out. And of course expectations of him were higher.
Foxy has now been driven from the room by Mrs Foxy and Fox jr switching over to watch the fluffing, teasing, manipulation, controlling behaviour and macho posturing of Love Island. Gluttons for punishment...after watching the other airheads.
Gove: managed to look less nutty than Sunday most of the time.
Johnson: clearly unsuitable for any responsible role in society.
Hunt: hoping to slip through by keeping quiet.
Javid: beginning to look like a Prime Minister. The only one with some emotional intelligence on display. Too bald, Muslim and far behind to win. Next out in the sack race.
Stewart: beginning to take the piss now as the jester speaking truth about the Court favourite. Dangerous. No tie and manspreading beyond reasonable limits.
Raab: No tears for todays loser. You don't win their votes by threatening your own MPs with suspension. Good riddance.
Interesting results today. Not much gain for Boris, clearly the majority of the votes of McVey, Leadsom, Hancock and the invisible man did go to anti Boris candidates. I would think Raabs will be the same, with most going to one or other Stop Boris faction. Clearly Brexit is not the only factor in how votes move between rounds, personal experience and familiarity matters more.
I think Rory has decided that being the "speak truth to power" Tory is his shtick and he's going to stay with it. It likely won't work now but could very well stand him in good stead in the future and he's done enough to raise his profile and make himself seem like a serious politician (remember he's only been in the Cabinet about 5 minutes) that any future PM will have to pay attention to him and/or offer him a job (other than Boris).
If Brexit ends up being the mess I think it will be there will come a time when even the Tories will start listening to an honest speak-as-you-find politician. And if that doesn't happen there is plenty else he can be doing.
I'm glad that Javid got agreement on the anti-Muslim issue. Something I've argued for on here. Deftly done and good for the Tories if they follow through.
Yes, who even among the “whataboutRory?” PB’ers every time a Cab vacancy came up would have believed he’d be giving PM a credible shot just a year or two later?
If you watch back the Islamophobia inquiry move by Javid, you’ll see that Johnson kept quiet and then belatedly tried to chunter when he realised the others had all agreed. He knows he is going to be lumbered with that commitment. I reckon he’ll try to get out of it, but it will be difficult given the high profile stage on which it was made.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
Boris will seal the deal for us, the sooner he is crowned King of England the better.
Even though my mother is a member of the Tories for more than 6 decades, I cannot fathom a party willing to consider Boris as Prime Minister.
I have no idea what other people see in Boris that makes them think "he should run the country". I can't rationalise it at all. It's like discovering that there a vast numbers of people who think that the Bay City Rollers are the greatest British band ever, and don't like the Stones, Beatles, Led Zeppelin etc.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
Boris will seal the deal for us, the sooner he is crowned King of England the better.
Cheerio Scotland! Easier for CON to get an overall majority!
Think I’ll go to bed with the general consensus from the debate being that if that is the best we have were ...... my kids thought that, many on here thought that and I’m waiting for somebody to tells why and who was brilliant.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
Boris will seal the deal for us, the sooner he is crowned King of England the better.
So, we have a bunch of Tories who want to hugely increase public spending on health, social care, education, local authority services, anything else anyone wanted to ask about AND have lots of tax cuts as well, not least for those earning £79K a year.
But they really care about public borrowing (well, except for Javid).
We have 2 committed to leaving on 31st October come hell or high water. We have 2 committed to leaving without a deal if necessary but not necessarily on that date.
And then we have Rory. I think people are right to ask if he is in the right party. I am not a member but I frankly wonder if I can believe any of them. Its interesting to think about what Ruth would have done tonight. Shown a bit of wit for a start.
Spot on. Tax and spend, or tax cuts and spend. Magic money trees all round
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Stewart very obviously couldn't believe what morons they all were. And boy were they morons
So is Stewart in the wrong party?
No. Fiscal conservative. Addressing major societal needs. Rationale and realistic policy on foreign affairs.
Very traditional conservative
Just the sort of person the party the Tories are becoming doesn’t want any more. Doubtless ConHome will be baying for his deselection once they have finished with Grieve, Lee and Gauke.
Quite right. The one important thing we learned tonight is Boris has enough teflon coating to weasel out of the muslim woman=letterbox and Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe charges - God knows how he managed it but he did.
I thought Javid was hectoring and shouty in a self-before-party kind of way, but as everybody was firmly on the side of party-before-country, so what?
This is actually getting beyond a joke what are we wasting time deciding which turd is better than the last turd in relation to saving a morally bankrupt Tory party rather than getting on with sorting out the uk problems. They don’t have to deliver brexit they need to have the courage to say there are more important things in life.
They do have to deliver Brexit otherwise it will be PM Farage on the latest poll and he will do it for them
Lol @ PM Farage.
There is the minor detail of winning a seat first.
You truly are clueless.
Hyufd is not clueless, just besotted with his own views and parrots loads of nonsense but,to be fair, he does add to the amusement
Poor sod spent three years defending Theresa May and is showing understandable signs of battle fatigue. Give him a break.
He is consistent and I for one like him , even if eccentric and a Tory.
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Am still fairly gobsmacked that when Johnson got an inevitable question on his past comments on Islam, he:
1) tried to make it about himself 2) couldn't even be arsed to remember the name of the man asking the question
I don't know why I'm surprised.
Yes, that was closest Boris got to a gaffe, but I doubt his loyal following will have even noticed it, and certainly wouldn't care if they did.
I doubt even Boris is that devious but more or less signposting he has trouble remembering muslim sounding names probably is net vote winning in the demographic of a tory member poll.
Javid probably came across best, but Christ that was a dispiriting shitestorm all around. Really disappointed in Rory who seemed somehow deflated just when he should've been utterly pumped up. Did he get a text that his cat died just before going on air or something?
He was trying to point out the inconsistencies and nonsenses in the positions of others and they refused to play. Boris simply refused to debate. Nor did Maitlis help. If your USP is that others are offering fantasies and only you are being realistic you need to show the fantasy before your realistic option seems attractive. Otherwise it just looks dismal - as some on here have said on his refusal to offer tax cuts. And as that voter said. Mind you, someone who votes for the Brexit Party is not someone, frankly, who wants to hear the truth. Rory is trying to speak truth to voters - and very many of them don't want to hear this. Whether on Brexit or anything else. Not when there are loads of sirens singing seductive songs.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's dead tired. Plus getting more votes from MPs from now on it is going to be much harder so maybe that was preying on his mind.
He has done so well to get this far. We have perhaps been expecting too much of him.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
Boris will seal the deal for us, the sooner he is crowned King of England the better.
I’m of the view that left and right are like ying and yang, summer and winter, they just balance out with time.
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Those are one hell of a series of allegations.
Not really.
The whole article is based around a single fact, that a convicted fraudster appears to be back inside the Labour Party and active in their local campaigning. Which is pretty poor; being convicted of electoral fraud ought to disqualify someone from Party membership/involvement just as much as precious extremism. And if true it is odd that Labour is denying his presence at the count if this was indeed witnessed by others.
But there isn’t any actual evidence of fraud having taken place in the election in that article, just a rehash of the existing rumours about some voters photographing their ballots, which by all accounts most of the polling clerks were diligent in challenging.
The fact that a few hundred postal votes were rejected because signatures didn’t match those on record is actually a good thing - suggesting the proper checks are being made.
He clearly did best tonight. In any of the most rigorous interview formats I think Stewart would eventually come through best again, but tonight wasn't that.
Me neither. By the look of it, it is frequented by right wing conspiracy theorists with a not dissimilar comment stream to Guido, if somewhat more articulate.
Fuck me, the “analysis” on here is grade-A predictable and might as well have been written 3 hours ago.
That would be a very, very slightly interesting claim if you had actually predicted it 3 hours ago, then. As it is it has almost a flavour of aftertiming about it.
Come on Boris - buck up man! Your USP is not competence or political correctness or heavy gravitas (and it never will be) its being funny and care free !
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Those are one hell of a series of allegations.
Not really.
The whole article is based around a single fact, that a convicted fraudster appears to be back inside the Labour Party and active in their local campaigning. Which is pretty poor; being convicted of electoral fraud ought to disqualify someone from Party membership/involvement just as much as precious extremism. And if true it is odd that Labour is denying his presence at the count if this was indeed witnessed by others.
But there isn’t any actual evidence of fraud having taken place in the election in that article, just a rehash of the existing rumours about some voters photographing their ballots, which by all accounts most of the polling clerks were diligent in challenging.
The fact that a few hundred postal votes were rejected because signatures didn’t match those on record is actually a good thing - suggesting the proper checks are being made.
What about the eye witness who allegedly saw people being bussed in and intimidated to vote despite not knowing what they were doing?
Just re-watched some of the debate. On reflection I agree with those who though Maitlis was poor and lost control regularly. She also appeared more hostile towards Boris than the others. 50-55 minutes for 5 politicians to make their pitch was never enough time for it to be really worthwhile and contributed towards an unedifying spectacle.
The fact that a few hundred postal votes were rejected because signatures didn’t match those on record is actually a good thing - suggesting the proper checks are being made.
The article also stated that the record for rejected postal votes was "trounced", which is nonsense. 1 minute of research showed it wasn't a particularly high rate.
Still disgraceful that this scumbag was welcomed back so readily into Labour circles though, which tells you a lot.
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Those are one hell of a series of allegations.
Not really.
The whole article is based around a single fact, that a convicted fraudster appears to be back inside the Labour Party and active in their local campaigning. Which is pretty poor; being convicted of electoral fraud ought to disqualify someone from Party membership/involvement just as much as precious extremism. And if true it is odd that Labour is denying his presence at the count if this was indeed witnessed by others.
But there isn’t any actual evidence of fraud having taken place in the election in that article, just a rehash of the existing rumours about some voters photographing their ballots, which by all accounts most of the polling clerks were diligent in challenging.
The fact that a few hundred postal votes were rejected because signatures didn’t match those on record is actually a good thing - suggesting the proper checks are being made.
The allegations don't just relate to the latest election but to earlier ones as well. It is not easy to assess the evidence based on one article. It is odd that one would deny someone's presence because it raises the issue of why the denial has been issued. Embarrassment, maybe. Or possibly something worse.
But I agree with you that someone involved in electoral fraud should not be involved in any capacity. It is quite worrying enough that this is happening without more
Anyway, let's see if this leads to anything. There is some suggestion that there is - or may be - other information available.
So, we have a bunch of Tories who want to hugely increase public spending on health, social care, education, local authority services, anything else anyone wanted to ask about AND have lots of tax cuts as well, not least for those earning £79K a year.
The people on £79k a year are nurses, maths teachers and police inspectors according to Boris tonight.
In completely unrelated news about who gets to vote this week, The basic annual salary for an MP from 1 April 2019 is £79,468
I think Boris just needed to not make any mistakes tonight and give the impression there wasn't any vulnerability to protect when he was absent last time, and he managed that with something to spare. Sajid Javid won the debate in terms of presence, but just in terms of his brawly boisterousness being in tune with the rest of the discussion, particularly with regard to Brexit, I think Johnson has strengthened his course to winning.
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Those are one hell of a series of allegations.
Not really.
The whole article is based around a single fact, that a convicted fraudster appears to be back inside the Labour Party and active in their local campaigning. Which is pretty poor; being convicted of electoral fraud ought to disqualify someone from Party membership/involvement just as much as precious extremism. And if true it is odd that Labour is denying his presence at the count if this was indeed witnessed by others.
But there isn’t any actual evidence of fraud having taken place in the election in that article, just a rehash of the existing rumours about some voters photographing their ballots, which by all accounts most of the polling clerks were diligent in challenging.
The fact that a few hundred postal votes were rejected because signatures didn’t match those on record is actually a good thing - suggesting the proper checks are being made.
What about the eye witness who allegedly saw people being bussed in and intimidated to vote despite not knowing what they were doing?
The article claims they were East Europeans, if so they wouldn't be on the register, but if they were naturalised is it any surprise that it wasn't difficult to persuade them to vote agaist a Brexit Party that hates them?
Just re-watched some of the debate. On reflection I agree with those who though Maitlis was poor and lost control regularly. She also appeared more hostile towards Boris than the others. 50-55 minutes for 5 politicians to make their pitch was never enough time for it to be really worthwhile and contributed towards an unedifying spectacle.
That was the problem. It was a mash-mash of styles: neither a proper debate, nor proper questioning nor a chance to put their pitch forward. Just became a mess.
We will end up with a third-rate PM who will make a mess of the EU question again. Whether or not we're still here this time next year still arguing God only knows.
Things are only going to get worse. Possibly very much worse.
Javid -0 - Shit Rory - 0.5 - Slightly less shit than the others but still shit Gove - 0 - Shit obssessed with Corbyn Hunt - 0 - C*** Boris - minus infinity - Shittest of a shit bunch.
Yepp. That’s what is on offer for next PM. And some folk wonder why the Scots want out.
Boris will seal the deal for us, the sooner he is crowned King of England the better.
A Boris led Tories actually polled better in Scotland than under any other candidate with Comres, the Brexit Party are currently polling neck and neck with the Tories in Scotland so Boris largely reunites the right there just as he does in the rest of the UK.
Rory though did poll better in Scotland than in England so has the highest net positive rating from Scots compared to the rest of the UK.
I'm clearly out of touch here, because I'm mystified by Betfair's reaction. Stewart out a decent slug, Gove and Hunt benefiting. I felt everyone did basically what I'd expect them to do - this didn't change anything in my mind. Does that mean Betfair had priced in a Rory stormer, or did it see something more than 'What you'd expect from all 5 given their campaigns so far'?
I don't suppose it is a huge market. Maybe it is being distorted by a few large bets/bids?
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Those are one hell of a series of allegations.
They sure are
Worth a read. I wish the Electoral Commission would stop pussyfooting and put some serious resources into tackling voter manipulation.
Comments
With some distance I suppose Hunt. Out of a bad lot.
So BP + Tories + DUP = 324 and a majority excluding SF with the BP the largest party of the 3
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/usercode.py?CON=21&LAB=21&LIB=19&Brexit=24&Green=2&ChUK=0&UKIP=2&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVBrexit=&TVGreen=&TVChUK=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=&SCOTLAB=&SCOTLIB=&SCOTBrexit=&SCOTGreen=&SCOTChUK=&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2017base
Gove: managed to look less nutty than Sunday most of the time.
Johnson: clearly unsuitable for any responsible role in society.
Hunt: hoping to slip through by keeping quiet.
Javid: beginning to look like a Prime Minister. The only one with some emotional intelligence on display. Too bald, Muslim and far behind to win. Next out in the sack race.
Stewart: beginning to take the piss now as the jester speaking truth about the Court favourite. Dangerous. No tie and manspreading beyond reasonable limits.
Raab: No tears for todays loser. You don't win their votes by threatening your own MPs with suspension. Good riddance.
Interesting results today. Not much gain for Boris, clearly the majority of the votes of McVey, Leadsom, Hancock and the invisible man did go to anti Boris candidates. I would think Raabs will be the same, with most going to one or other Stop Boris faction. Clearly Brexit is not the only factor in how votes move between rounds, personal experience and familiarity matters more.
https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/1141075663782203392
More allegations about Peterborough
I am hesitant to link in case I expose Mike - but for those interested its under the thread on RAF intercepting Russian fighters... yes not exactly on topic..... about 4th comment in
Very traditional conservative
Oh wait you voted to remain.
But they really care about public borrowing (well, except for Javid).
We have 2 committed to leaving on 31st October come hell or high water. We have 2 committed to leaving without a deal if necessary but not necessarily on that date.
And then we have Rory. I think people are right to ask if he is in the right party. I am not a member but I frankly wonder if I can believe any of them. Its interesting to think about what Ruth would have done tonight. Shown a bit of wit for a start.
No sunlit uplands in Cumbria.
If Brexit ends up being the mess I think it will be there will come a time when even the Tories will start listening to an honest speak-as-you-find politician. And if that doesn't happen there is plenty else he can be doing.
I'm glad that Javid got agreement on the anti-Muslim issue. Something I've argued for on here. Deftly done and good for the Tories if they follow through.
Markets tend to overreact and many punters will take another view in the morning once the papers write it up.
1) tried to make it about himself
2) couldn't even be arsed to remember the name of the man asking the question
I don't know why I'm surprised.
But the most of us anonymous posters are much the same. Even though my mother is a member of the Tories for more than 6 decades, I cannot fathom a party willing to consider Boris as Prime Minister.
So on the whole, a tough nite for Stewart.
If you watch back the Islamophobia inquiry move by Javid, you’ll see that Johnson kept quiet and then belatedly tried to chunter when he realised the others had all agreed. He knows he is going to be lumbered with that commitment. I reckon he’ll try to get out of it, but it will be difficult given the high profile stage on which it was made.
That's "Prince Boris" to you.
Just the sort of person the party the Tories are becoming doesn’t want any more. Doubtless ConHome will be baying for his deselection once they have finished with Grieve, Lee and Gauke.
I thought Javid was hectoring and shouty in a self-before-party kind of way, but as everybody was firmly on the side of party-before-country, so what?
Depressing.
Why doesn't he?
I wouldn't be surprised if he's dead tired. Plus getting more votes from MPs from now on it is going to be much harder so maybe that was preying on his mind.
He has done so well to get this far. We have perhaps been expecting too much of him.
Con leader
Back 37£ @ 15.05
Lay £43.50 @ 17.25
PM
Back £21 @ 19.52
Lay £23 @ 19.33
Okay, glad I was on the piss.
Thanks, David.
The whole article is based around a single fact, that a convicted fraudster appears to be back inside the Labour Party and active in their local campaigning. Which is pretty poor; being convicted of electoral fraud ought to disqualify someone from Party membership/involvement just as much as precious extremism. And if true it is odd that Labour is denying his presence at the count if this was indeed witnessed by others.
But there isn’t any actual evidence of fraud having taken place in the election in that article, just a rehash of the existing rumours about some voters photographing their ballots, which by all accounts most of the polling clerks were diligent in challenging.
The fact that a few hundred postal votes were rejected because signatures didn’t match those on record is actually a good thing - suggesting the proper checks are being made.
The next PM of the country will be anointed with barely a scratch of scrutiny.
I thought Hunt best, and Boris worst. Boris failed to answer a single question.
Still disgraceful that this scumbag was welcomed back so readily into Labour circles though, which tells you a lot.
But I agree with you that someone involved in electoral fraud should not be involved in any capacity. It is quite worrying enough that this is happening without more
Anyway, let's see if this leads to anything. There is some suggestion that there is - or may be - other information available.
In completely unrelated news about who gets to vote this week, The basic annual salary for an MP from 1 April 2019 is £79,468
https://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and-lords/members/pay-mps/
We will end up with a third-rate PM who will make a mess of the EU question again. Whether or not we're still here this time next year still arguing God only knows.
Things are only going to get worse. Possibly very much worse.
Rory though did poll better in Scotland than in England so has the highest net positive rating from Scots compared to the rest of the UK.