Why should he? If people want her gone they have the power to make her go, why should she make it easier for people who are either too cowardly to be on the record, or are on the record but whose plans to do better than her involve yelling Brexit very loud?
Funnily enough Baker and the like come off as more reasonable as they have been far more consistent about their opposition to May, perfectly open about it, and have a plan on a different direction which while it relies on bombast, is not just bombast. Contrasted with johnny come lateleys who have just opposed and leaked and have nothing but platitudes to offer.
That said, of course she should go, because she is doing no one any good right now, but most of the rest do not deserve credit for the way they have acted, given they have either enabled her approach while not really backing her, or sniping without a plab beyond the aforementioned yelling Brexit plan.
> @Gallowgate said: > Interesting that Tories are happy to rerun a vote when they didn’t like the result.
Yes, but the result of the previous one was immediately enacted (no change), and would also have been immediately enacted if it had been the other way.
> @kle4 said: > Can't Philip just tell her enough? > > Why should he? If people want her gone they have the power to make her go, why should she make it easier for people who are either too cowardly to be on the record, or are on the record but whose plans to do better than her involve yelling Brexit very loud? > > Funnily enough Baker and the like come off as more reasonable as they have been far more consistent about their opposition to May, perfectly open about it, and have a plan on a different direction which while it relies on bombast, is not just bombast. Contrasted with johnny come lateleys who have just opposed and leaked and have nothing but platitudes to offer.
The question is, why does she carry on? What obligation does she think she has to keep going? Does she think the country will fall apart without her?
What, at this point, could possibly be her motivation for staying? She cannot concievably think she can win.
> @kyf_100 said: > > @kle4 said: > > Can't Philip just tell her enough? > > > > Why should he? If people want her gone they have the power to make her go, why should she make it easier for people who are either too cowardly to be on the record, or are on the record but whose plans to do better than her involve yelling Brexit very loud? > > > > Funnily enough Baker and the like come off as more reasonable as they have been far more consistent about their opposition to May, perfectly open about it, and have a plan on a different direction which while it relies on bombast, is not just bombast. Contrasted with johnny come lateleys who have just opposed and leaked and have nothing but platitudes to offer. > > The question is, why does she carry on? What obligation does she think she has to keep going? Does she think the country will fall apart without her? > > What, at this point, could possibly be her motivation for staying? She cannot concievably think she can win. >
Perhaps she’s the one that laid TSE’s Liddington bet ?
> @Jonathan said: > The Tory party is mad. > > It is surely a bad move to try to unseat a PM the day before an election. Whoever resigns will get a heap of shite poured upon them when the party finally regains what little sanity it can muster.
Both main parties are well past their sell-by date.
I'm sort of half expecting to see live footage of May being chased, Benny Hill style, by an army of cabinet ministers, backbenchers and political journalists, as the theme tune plays.
> @kyf_100 said: > > @kle4 said: > > Can't Philip just tell her enough? > > > > Why should he? If people want her gone they have the power to make her go, why should she make it easier for people who are either too cowardly to be on the record, or are on the record but whose plans to do better than her involve yelling Brexit very loud? > > > > Funnily enough Baker and the like come off as more reasonable as they have been far more consistent about their opposition to May, perfectly open about it, and have a plan on a different direction which while it relies on bombast, is not just bombast. Contrasted with johnny come lateleys who have just opposed and leaked and have nothing but platitudes to offer. > > The question is, why does she carry on? What obligation does she think she has to keep going? Does she think the country will fall apart without her? > > What, at this point, could possibly be her motivation for staying? She cannot concievably think she can win. > >
------------- I add this paragraph
That said, of course she should go, because she is doing no one any good right now, but most of the rest do not deserve credit for the way they have acted, given they have either enabled her approach while not really backing her, or sniping without a plab beyond the aforementioned yelling Brexit plan.
As to her motivation I could not possibly speculate, but given the unreasonableness of many of her opponents who fail to recognise their own contributions to being in this mess (even though she lacked the leadership and skills to see us out of it), I'm frankly not surprised she is thus far making them actually carry out their threats.
Various MPs in increasing numbers have threatened to metahphorically shoot her for the better part of a year. If it is what her MPs want, then fine, but actually pull the damn trigger.
She's starting to look more tenacious than Thatcher was. They need to make sure she can't run out and speak to any journalists. "We fight on. We fight to win."
I'm fairly sure that the GRU trolls can take a breather as far as the UK is concerned, our political class is doing more damage on their own behalf than our Russians pals could ever hope to achieve.
Yes it is. If you are going to mount a coup you have to control communications. If you have the current situation where people are tweeting your activities in real-time then the person you are trying to overthrow can monitor your behaviour and act accordingly. OGH was not referring to a literal corpse. At least I hope not.
> @AndyJS said: > > @Jonathan said: > > The Tory party is mad. > > > > It is surely a bad move to try to unseat a PM the day before an election. Whoever resigns will get a heap of shite poured upon them when the party finally regains what little sanity it can muster. > > Both main parties are well past their sell-by date.
Do you really think that? Come the next GE do you expect either Lab and Con not to be in the top two?
The Tory party is exceptionally good at reimagining itself and in the months to come being the official opposition is a huge advantage for Labour. Both will have oxygen denied to the small/new parties and when it comes to a FPTP election, they have a huge advantage.
Will the Tories even get a single vote on Thursday? Even the loyalists may now vote for someone else if only out of compassion - force the issue and put Theresa out of her misery.
A couple of other thoughts; she does have a reputation to maintain as a “bloody difficult woman”... and perhaps she was telling the truth when she said ‘I’m enjoying this’ ?
Isn't this entirely sensible (I know that sense is out of fashion). Why do coup plotters what to carry the can for the bad result? Surely keep May in place so that she can?
> @AndyJS said: > > @Jonathan said: > > The Tory party is mad. > > > > It is surely a bad move to try to unseat a PM the day before an election. Whoever resigns will get a heap of shite poured upon them when the party finally regains what little sanity it can muster. > > Both main parties are well past their sell-by date.
I think there is some truth in this.
The Tories were the party of business, patrician policies and social conservatism - they don't seem like that any more.
Labour were the party for the underdog, redistribution and national ownership - but their heartlands are still as poor as ever and their front bench are as entitled as the Tories.
I'd have leaders like Maggie and Wilson rather than Cameron and Blair any day.
Isn't this entirely sensible (I know that sense is out of fashion). Why do coup plotters what to carry the can for the bad result? Surely keep May in place so that she can?
May has more sense than the idiots who think it is a good idea to change leader less than 24 hours before a vote.
> @williamglenn said: > https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21 ----------------------------------- I'm curious what they really expected here - it's too late to repair any damage to the party vote, so what good would May literally going tonight do? It can wait until the weekend. --------------------------------- @Jonathan said: Do you really think that? Come the next GE do you expect either Lab and Con not to be in the top two? --------------------------------- I am mostly sure the Tories will, but I've never had as much thought they might not, even if the chance is only, say, 10-20%. They are irreperably damaged and split, they cannot bring together their disparate factions, it's impossible. They could implode. They probably will,if not to destruction, but it's not impossible to imagine now.
Why go to all that trouble. A 2022 committee will be far better and easier to arrange. It'll just be about choosing the 4 or 5 best from the dozen or so MPs.
> @glw said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632 > > > > > > Isn't this entirely sensible (I know that sense is out of fashion). Why do coup plotters what to carry the can for the bad result? Surely keep May in place so that she can? > > May has more sense than the idiots who think it is a good idea to change leader less than 24 hours before a vote.
To be honest, I think their campaign has reached the point where any publicity is good publicity.
I'm curious what they really expected here - it's too late to repair any damage to the party vote, so what good would May literally going tonight do? It can wait until the weekend.
Do you really think that? Come the next GE do you expect either Lab and Con not to be in the top two?
---------------------------------
I am mostly sure the Tories will, but I've never had as much thought they might not, even if the chance is only, say, 10-20%. They are irreperably damaged and split, they cannot bring together their disparate factions, it's impossible. They could implode. They probably will,if not to destruction, but it's not impossible to imagine now.
Graham Brady Old Lady really is a figure of fun – a man with too many teeth, and too few brain cells.
You can just see what's going to happen, can't you? The Tories melt down tomorrow, with the Brexit Party triumphant. The Tory MPs panic wildly and stampede into No Deal. And the aftermath of that obliterates what's left.
My gods, another comment that proves that, disagree with him about no deal and how good it would be all we may want, Baker actually is more sensible than a great many other Tory MPs, having both a plan on what to do next and noticing that there are other things going on which make things tonight difficult.
So the 1922 doing nothing means that Nigel Farage gets all the publicity next week (and the momentum heading to Peterborough). Also the fact that they cannot control the narrative either way can only hurt the party at the polls tomorrow. Sigh.
You can just see what's going to happen, can't you? The Tories melt down tomorrow, with the Brexit Party triumphant. The Tory MPs panic wildly and stampede into No Deal. And the aftermath of that obliterates what's left.
It is very transparent, particularly as the more cowardly have already panicked and surrended to Farage and called for a deal with the Brexit Party (rather than, you know, try to Brexit and see if that has an effect). The reaction of Tory remainers and soft Brexiteers will be very interesting. Any to join Boles? There can be no place for a remainer in the Tory party very soon.
I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
> @Pulpstar said: > She can't lead, and they can't plot. It's beyond a shambles now.
None of this has been a plot though. Even JRM and his merry men were not conspiring to do evil deeds. It's just been that many, many people don't agree. Theresa May has clearly not been plotted against in any serious way, because its clear that any plot would have been better.
I think there have been mini-plots - Davis and Patterson arsing about forming treaties with the mayors of US hamlets for example. Ok, not much of a plot, but we're dealing with Davis and Patterson.
Grayling may have plotted too. Unfortunately modern science is not equipped to register such small effects.
In terms of optics I imagine natural Tories who haven't yet voted by post are going to be even less impressed because of this.
As a Cons Remainer (yes folks a shock to hear I know) I pondered this and am still pondering. It would feel ok to vote LD but I will likely vote Cons.
Why?
Although there are loons in the party they are not (yet) running it. It would be different and a no-brainer if a loon was actually in charge.
A vote for the Cons says I support the current leadership and their Brexit strategy. Might it say I support the loons? No I don't think so. The loon supporters have already fucked off to TBP.
> @JohnO said: > I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
> @El_Capitano said: > FPT: > @Richard_Nabavi said: > > > Are Mrs May and Rory Stewart "sensible Tories" ? > > > > > > Rory certainly. Mrs May is very sensible in her political positioning, but not in her assessment of whether her positioning can be implemented in parliament as things now stand. > > > > I think her problem is in the execution and in the persuasion of others to follow her. > > > > More suited to the backroom than front of house. > > "The execution of others"? > > The parallels with Game of Thrones are getting stronger by the minute.
What the hell are the Tories who are keeping May in power right now playing at ?
They cannot agree on who should replace her, even temporarily.
Seriously, we know someone like Lidington will anger vast numbers of them, and any ones with an actual chance the job permanently won't one one of their rivals taking over either, so who? The joke answer is Clarke, but most of them would not accept him either.
I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
How so? They have been polls of them lower than that, and there's the messes of the last few days to consider. 10% would be a triumph, relatively speaking.
Do people see May staying as an MP? Feels difficult with the way she has been treated by her "party". Another by election coming? Another reduction in the majority?
None of the last five people to take over as Prime Minister mid-term, Lord Home, Jim Callaghan, John Major, Gordon Brown and Theresa May herself, have called an immediate General Election in the same year.
Nowadays the PM no longer has the power to 'call' one, they have to take place every 5 years unless MPs themselves want an earlier one.
Opposition MPs don't have much to lose but why would government MPs vote for an early election when they are behind in the opinion polls?
> @kle4 said: > Steve Baker notices there’s an election happening. > > > > https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1131251270717718528 > > > > My gods, another comment that proves that, disagree with him about no deal and how good it would be all we may want, Baker actually is more sensible than a great many other Tory MPs, having both a plan on what to do next and noticing that there are other things going on which make things tonight difficult.
I think all this chaos is co-ordinated to keep us checking in on the site every few minutes
Personally I think it is very sad to see TM hunkering down, refusing to meet cabinet ministers, and in denial that she is in the end days. If she wants to retain her dignity and respect, on Friday (post the EU vote) she must invite the leadership election to commence immediately.
Indeed anything else is madness and she will be forced out. I do not want to see that happen to her. TM has faced the most extraordinary amount of abuse and misogyny including from her own mps like the ghastly Francois actually indicating a violent end by slitting her throat.
It is just totally unacceptable. TM has tried to resolve the intractable and no amount of abuse will alter the fact not one other politician could have resolved this unending deadlock
> @JohnO said: > I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
Can't you knock a few heads together and come up with someone a little more sensible than Raab C Brexit or Boris 'the ego' Johnson?
Do people see May staying as an MP? Feels difficult with the way she has been treated by her "party". Another by election coming? Another reduction in the majority?
I hope she sticks around. It will be rough, but if things go even further to shit, or we Remain, and I were her, I'd want to be there to tell them.
None of the last five people to take over as Prime Minister mid-term, Lord Home, Jim Callaghan, John Major, Gordon Brown and Theresa May herself, have called an immediate General Election in the same year.
Nowadays the PM no longer has the power to 'call' one, they have to take place every 5 years unless MPs themselves want an earlier one.
Opposition MPs don't have much to lose but why would government MPs vote for an early election when they are behind in the opinion polls?
For some reason many of them seem to think taking a firm no deal position will see them rewarded massively by the public.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @Casino_Royale said: > > I’ve already laid off my Lidington. > > I’ve laid off some of mine. I fancy that the prices will shorten again further before the week is out. > > He is part of my trinity of major moneymakers on the next PM market, together with Jacob Rees-Mogg and Jeremy Corbyn. Gawd bless that unlikely trio.
Surely you've indulged in the free money that has been David Millband too?
> My gods, another comment that proves that, disagree with him about no deal and how good it would be all we may want, Baker actually is more sensible than a great many other Tory MPs, having both a plan on what to do next and noticing that there are other things going on which make things tonight difficult.
I think all this chaos is co-ordinated to keep us checking in on the site every few minutes
Personally I think it is very sad to see TM hunkering down, refusing to meet cabinet ministers, and in denial that she is in the end days. If she wants to retain her dignity and respect, on Friday (post the EU vote) she must invite the leadership election to commence immediately.
Indeed anything else is madness and she will be forced out. I do not want to see that happen to her. TM has faced the most extraordinary amount of abuse and misogyny including from her own mps like the ghastly Francois actually indicating a violent end by slitting her throat.
It is just totally unacceptable. TM has tried to resolve the intractable and no amount of abuse will alter the fact not one other politician could have resolved this unending deadlock
Yes she must invite the leadership contest to commence immediately. But who to be PM? You know the MPs willnot want her in post while they have their contest.
> @Omnium said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > @Casino_Royale said: > > > I’ve already laid off my Lidington. > > > > I’ve laid off some of mine. I fancy that the prices will shorten again further before the week is out. > > > > He is part of my trinity of major moneymakers on the next PM market, together with Jacob Rees-Mogg and Jeremy Corbyn. Gawd bless that unlikely trio. > > Surely you've indulged in the free money that has been David Millband too? > > (Easily my best result from the clown-spotter)
Oh yes, and Nigel Farage too recently. But they are next tier down for me.
> @DeClare said: > None of the last five people to take over as Prime Minister mid-term, Lord Home, Jim Callaghan, John Major, Gordon Brown and Theresa May herself, have called an immediate General Election in the same year. > > Nowadays the PM no longer has the power to 'call' one, they have to take place every 5 years unless MPs themselves want an earlier one. > > Opposition MPs don't have much to lose but why would government MPs vote for an early election when they are behind in the opinion polls?
Of those, I think only Callaghan didn't have a majority.
Interesting too that all lost seats and 3/5 their government at the subsequent GE.
I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
So you're voting to help Dan Hannan retain his seat?
> @kle4 said: > > @kle4 said: > > > Steve Baker notices there’s an election happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1131251270717718528 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My gods, another comment that proves that, disagree with him about no deal and how good it would be all we may want, Baker actually is more sensible than a great many other Tory MPs, having both a plan on what to do next and noticing that there are other things going on which make things tonight difficult. > > > > I think all this chaos is co-ordinated to keep us checking in on the site every few minutes > > > > Personally I think it is very sad to see TM hunkering down, refusing to meet cabinet ministers, and in denial that she is in the end days. If she wants to retain her dignity and respect, on Friday (post the EU vote) she must invite the leadership election to commence immediately. > > > > Indeed anything else is madness and she will be forced out. I do not want to see that happen to her. TM has faced the most extraordinary amount of abuse and misogyny including from her own mps like the ghastly Francois actually indicating a violent end by slitting her throat. > > > > It is just totally unacceptable. TM has tried to resolve the intractable and no amount of abuse will alter the fact not one other politician could have resolved this unending deadlock > > Yes she must invite the leadership contest to commence immediately. But who to be PM? You know the MPs willnot want her in post while they have their contest.
As caretaker PM I think most would see it as a fair compromise.
> @AndreaParma_82 said: > Tomorrow is voting day also in the Netherlands for Euro elections. > > Ireland vote on Friday > > Saturday: Slovakia, Malta and Latvia > > Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guyane, Saint-Barhélémy, Saint-Martin, Saint-Pierre et-Miquelon and Polynésie Française also vote on Saturday. > > Remaining countries vote on Sunday > >
Do the final polls close on Sunday at 9pm British time or 10pm?
> @Jonathan said: > > @JohnO said: > > I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread. > > Can't you knock a few heads together and come up with someone a little more sensible than Raab C Brexit or Boris 'the ego' Johnson?
Oh, the Baker, Bridgen, Francois, Jenkyns crowd will have won. Hate it, but there you go. The Flint, Nancy, Cooper, Benn mob on your side played for high stakes in their hope that scuppering the flawed May deal would lead to revoke or a referendum. It won’t. They should have looked beyond narrow advantage and realised that the best is usually the enemy of the good. But they didn’t. And serves them right.
Italy polls close at 11PM local time which is 10pm for you
> @AndyJS said: > > @AndreaParma_82 said: > > Tomorrow is voting day also in the Netherlands for Euro elections. > > > > Ireland vote on Friday > > > > Saturday: Slovakia, Malta and Latvia > > > > Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guyane, Saint-Barhélémy, Saint-Martin, Saint-Pierre et-Miquelon and Polynésie Française also vote on Saturday. > > > > Remaining countries vote on Sunday > > > > > > Do the final polls close on Sunday at 9pm British time or 10pm?
> @solarflare said: > I'm sort of half expecting to see live footage of May being chased, Benny Hill style, by an army of cabinet ministers, backbenchers and political journalists, as the theme tune plays.
With Garage running in the other direction being chased with people with milkshakes.
> @nunuone said: > > @solarflare said: > > I'm sort of half expecting to see live footage of May being chased, Benny Hill style, by an army of cabinet ministers, backbenchers and political journalists, as the theme tune plays. > > With Garage running in the other direction being chased with people with milkshakes.
> @JohnO said: > > @Jonathan said: > > > @JohnO said: > > > I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread. > > > > Can't you knock a few heads together and come up with someone a little more sensible than Raab C Brexit or Boris 'the ego' Johnson? > > Oh, the Baker, Bridgen, Francois, Jenkyns crowd will have won. Hate it, but there you go. The Flint, Nancy, Cooper, Benn mob on your side played for high stakes in their hope that scuppering the flawed May deal would lead to revoke or a referendum. It won’t. They should have looked beyond narrow advantage and realised that the best is usually the enemy of the good. But they didn’t. And serves them right.
> @AndreaParma_82 said: > Italy polls close at 11PM local time which is 10pm for you > > > > @AndyJS said: > > > @AndreaParma_82 said: > > > Tomorrow is voting day also in the Netherlands for Euro elections. > > > > > > Ireland vote on Friday > > > > > > Saturday: Slovakia, Malta and Latvia > > > > > > Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guyane, Saint-Barhélémy, Saint-Martin, Saint-Pierre et-Miquelon and Polynésie Française also vote on Saturday. > > > > > > Remaining countries vote on Sunday > > > > > > > > > > Do the final polls close on Sunday at 9pm British time or 10pm? > >
Thanks, that explains why we have to wait until 10pm to start counting the votes. I think it's earlier in most countries (close of polling).
As caretaker PM I think most would see it as a fair compromise.
I disagree. The Tory party are a bunch of Corbynesque fanatics - the last thing most of them want is a compromise, fair or not.
Nevertheless, I feel a dilemma. While I now think we should remain, I did very much back the deal and this might be the chance to register support for that outcome at an election. But that would mean rewarding the pathetic shower that is the Tory party. On the other hand the LDs might be able to sneak a second seat if I back them, but they have been quite extremist for a long time on Brexit, and should I reward that? CUK deserve something for boldness but don't seem to offer anything, a vote Labour would be fine but they seem somewhat confused about just how remainy or not they are. BXP and UKIp have at least attempted to get my vote through leaflets but, er, no, no thanks.
So I think I might boil it down to the final two and toss a coin.
> @nunuone said: > > @solarflare said: > > I'm sort of half expecting to see live footage of May being chased, Benny Hill style, by an army of cabinet ministers, backbenchers and political journalists, as the theme tune plays. > > With Garage running in the other direction being chased with people with milkshakes.
> > I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
>
> Can't you knock a few heads together and come up with someone a little more sensible than Raab C Brexit or Boris 'the ego' Johnson?
Oh, the Baker, Bridgen, Francois, Jenkyns crowd will have won. Hate it, but there you go. The Flint, Nancy, Cooper, Benn mob on your side played for high stakes in their hope that scuppering the flawed May deal would lead to revoke or a referendum. It won’t. They should have looked beyond narrow advantage and realised that the best is usually the enemy of the good. But they didn’t. And serves them right.
Exactly. Except not Flint. She’s been sensible throughout.
It’s Labour who have also been instrumental in shooting this down, and are doing it even now.
As far as I can tell May is giving them everything they wanted and they are *still* opposing it wholeheartedly.
I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
Why the hell should the country suffer to satisfy the loons in the Tory party and a party which has no MPs in Parliament and whose leader has failed in all his attempts at becoming an MP?
The way Tories regularly conflate what is in their interests with what is in the country’s interests is despicable. Drive your own bus over a cliff if you must. But stop including the rest of us in your “we”.
Comments
Funnily enough Baker and the like come off as more reasonable as they have been far more consistent about their opposition to May, perfectly open about it, and have a plan on a different direction which while it relies on bombast, is not just bombast. Contrasted with johnny come lateleys who have just opposed and leaked and have nothing but platitudes to offer.
That said, of course she should go, because she is doing no one any good right now, but most of the rest do not deserve credit for the way they have acted, given they have either enabled her approach while not really backing her, or sniping without a plab beyond the aforementioned yelling Brexit plan.
> Interesting that Tories are happy to rerun a vote when they didn’t like the result.
Yes, but the result of the previous one was immediately enacted (no change), and would also have been immediately enacted if it had been the other way.
So the comparison isn't valid.
> Can't Philip just tell her enough?
>
> Why should he? If people want her gone they have the power to make her go, why should she make it easier for people who are either too cowardly to be on the record, or are on the record but whose plans to do better than her involve yelling Brexit very loud?
>
> Funnily enough Baker and the like come off as more reasonable as they have been far more consistent about their opposition to May, perfectly open about it, and have a plan on a different direction which while it relies on bombast, is not just bombast. Contrasted with johnny come lateleys who have just opposed and leaked and have nothing but platitudes to offer.
The question is, why does she carry on? What obligation does she think she has to keep going? Does she think the country will fall apart without her?
What, at this point, could possibly be her motivation for staying? She cannot concievably think she can win.
> https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131248655363715078
Is that really relevant in this case?
> https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131248655363715078
Is this LD party policy?
> > @kle4 said:
> > Can't Philip just tell her enough?
> >
> > Why should he? If people want her gone they have the power to make her go, why should she make it easier for people who are either too cowardly to be on the record, or are on the record but whose plans to do better than her involve yelling Brexit very loud?
> >
> > Funnily enough Baker and the like come off as more reasonable as they have been far more consistent about their opposition to May, perfectly open about it, and have a plan on a different direction which while it relies on bombast, is not just bombast. Contrasted with johnny come lateleys who have just opposed and leaked and have nothing but platitudes to offer.
>
> The question is, why does she carry on? What obligation does she think she has to keep going? Does she think the country will fall apart without her?
>
> What, at this point, could possibly be her motivation for staying? She cannot concievably think she can win.
>
Perhaps she’s the one that laid TSE’s Liddington bet ?
> The Tory party is mad.
>
> It is surely a bad move to try to unseat a PM the day before an election. Whoever resigns will get a heap of shite poured upon them when the party finally regains what little sanity it can muster.
Both main parties are well past their sell-by date.
> > @kle4 said:
> > Can't Philip just tell her enough?
> >
> > Why should he? If people want her gone they have the power to make her go, why should she make it easier for people who are either too cowardly to be on the record, or are on the record but whose plans to do better than her involve yelling Brexit very loud?
> >
> > Funnily enough Baker and the like come off as more reasonable as they have been far more consistent about their opposition to May, perfectly open about it, and have a plan on a different direction which while it relies on bombast, is not just bombast. Contrasted with johnny come lateleys who have just opposed and leaked and have nothing but platitudes to offer.
>
> The question is, why does she carry on? What obligation does she think she has to keep going? Does she think the country will fall apart without her?
>
> What, at this point, could possibly be her motivation for staying? She cannot concievably think she can win.
>
>
-------------
I add this paragraph
That said, of course she should go, because she is doing no one any good right now, but most of the rest do not deserve credit for the way they have acted, given they have either enabled her approach while not really backing her, or sniping without a plab beyond the aforementioned yelling Brexit plan.
As to her motivation I could not possibly speculate, but given the unreasonableness of many of her opponents who fail to recognise their own contributions to being in this mess (even though she lacked the leadership and skills to see us out of it), I'm frankly not surprised she is thus far making them actually carry out their threats.
Various MPs in increasing numbers have threatened to metahphorically shoot her for the better part of a year. If it is what her MPs want, then fine, but actually pull the damn trigger.
> > @MikeSmithson said:
> > https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131248655363715078
>
> Is this LD party policy?
I'm not sure what makes me smile more - Mike's tweet, or the idea of a coup in the LDs. Smiling though, I am
> > @Jonathan said:
> > The Tory party is mad.
> >
> > It is surely a bad move to try to unseat a PM the day before an election. Whoever resigns will get a heap of shite poured upon them when the party finally regains what little sanity it can muster.
>
> Both main parties are well past their sell-by date.
Do you really think that? Come the next GE do you expect either Lab and Con not to be in the top two?
The Tory party is exceptionally good at reimagining itself and in the months to come being the official opposition is a huge advantage for Labour. Both will have oxygen denied to the small/new parties and when it comes to a FPTP election, they have a huge advantage.
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @MikeSmithson said:
> > > https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131248655363715078
> >
> > Is this LD party policy?
>
> I'm not sure what makes me smile more - Mike's tweet, or the idea of a coup in the LDs. Smiling though, I am
If I was cruel I would say that Vince has been doing pretty well in the role of a corpse for some time.
> https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21
Tee hee.. Buy shares in ramipril producers ...
> https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21
Time for the 2019 committee to be formed?
> https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21
Isn't this entirely sensible (I know that sense is out of fashion). Why do coup plotters what to carry the can for the bad result? Surely keep May in place so that she can?
This is absolutely hilarious.
> > @Jonathan said:
> > The Tory party is mad.
> >
> > It is surely a bad move to try to unseat a PM the day before an election. Whoever resigns will get a heap of shite poured upon them when the party finally regains what little sanity it can muster.
>
> Both main parties are well past their sell-by date.
I think there is some truth in this.
The Tories were the party of business, patrician policies and social conservatism - they don't seem like that any more.
Labour were the party for the underdog, redistribution and national ownership - but their heartlands are still as poor as ever and their front bench are as entitled as the Tories.
I'd have leaders like Maggie and Wilson rather than Cameron and Blair any day.
> https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21
-----------------------------------
I'm curious what they really expected here - it's too late to repair any damage to the party vote, so what good would May literally going tonight do? It can wait until the weekend.
---------------------------------
@Jonathan said:
Do you really think that? Come the next GE do you expect either Lab and Con not to be in the top two?
---------------------------------
I am mostly sure the Tories will, but I've never had as much thought they might not, even if the chance is only, say, 10-20%. They are irreperably damaged and split, they cannot bring together their disparate factions, it's impossible. They could implode. They probably will,if not to destruction, but it's not impossible to imagine now.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21
> Time for the 2019 committee to be formed?
Why go to all that trouble. A 2022 committee will be far better and easier to arrange. It'll just be about choosing the 4 or 5 best from the dozen or so MPs.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21
>
> Isn't this entirely sensible (I know that sense is out of fashion). Why do coup plotters what to carry the can for the bad result? Surely keep May in place so that she can?
-------------------
She still would have, but as you suggest what sense is it that she not carry it a little more easily.
It rather proves the point that yes, May is a disaster, but she is also at the head of an entire gaggle of disasters.
> > @williamglenn said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632
>
>
>
>
>
> Isn't this entirely sensible (I know that sense is out of fashion). Why do coup plotters what to carry the can for the bad result? Surely keep May in place so that she can?
>
> May has more sense than the idiots who think it is a good idea to change leader less than 24 hours before a vote.
To be honest, I think their campaign has reached the point where any publicity is good publicity.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1131251270717718528?s=21
> She can't lead, and they can't plot. It's beyond a shambles now.
None of this has been a plot though. Even JRM and his merry men were not conspiring to do evil deeds. It's just been that many, many people don't agree. Theresa May has clearly not been plotted against in any serious way, because its clear that any plot would have been better.
I think there have been mini-plots - Davis and Patterson arsing about forming treaties with the mayors of US hamlets for example. Ok, not much of a plot, but we're dealing with Davis and Patterson.
Grayling may have plotted too. Unfortunately modern science is not equipped to register such small effects.
> https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21
I thought "campaigning" was outlawed on the day of the poll?
Why?
Although there are loons in the party they are not (yet) running it. It would be different and a no-brainer if a loon was actually in charge.
A vote for the Cons says I support the current leadership and their Brexit strategy. Might it say I support the loons? No I don't think so. The loon supporters have already fucked off to TBP.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1131250170031685632?s=21
>
>
> I thought "campaigning" was outlawed on the day of the poll?
That's just television stuff. You can still pound the pavement.
599/1 a lay? Someone wants £20
> I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
I feel your pain
> FPT: > @Richard_Nabavi said:
>
> > Are Mrs May and Rory Stewart "sensible Tories" ?
>
> >
>
> > Rory certainly. Mrs May is very sensible in her political positioning, but not in her assessment of whether her positioning can be implemented in parliament as things now stand.
>
>
>
> I think her problem is in the execution and in the persuasion of others to follow her.
>
>
>
> More suited to the backroom than front of house.
>
> "The execution of others"?
>
> The parallels with Game of Thrones are getting stronger by the minute.
What a really crap ending?
Seriously, we know someone like Lidington will anger vast numbers of them, and any ones with an actual chance the job permanently won't one one of their rivals taking over either, so who? The joke answer is Clarke, but most of them would not accept him either.
> The Tories seem to have stabilised around 12 %
Did you ever think that you would utter those words?
Nowadays the PM no longer has the power to 'call' one, they have to take place every 5 years unless MPs themselves want an earlier one.
Opposition MPs don't have much to lose but why would government MPs vote for an early election when they are behind in the opinion polls?
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1131249186798747654?s=19
She might not go until Monday.
> I’ve already laid off my Lidington.
I can't keep up with all these modern euphemisms.
> I’ve already laid off my Lidington.
I’ve laid off some of mine. I fancy that the prices will shorten again further before the week is out.
He is part of my trinity of major moneymakers on the next PM market, together with Jacob Rees-Mogg and Jeremy Corbyn. Gawd bless that unlikely trio.
> Steve Baker notices there’s an election happening.
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1131251270717718528
>
>
>
> My gods, another comment that proves that, disagree with him about no deal and how good it would be all we may want, Baker actually is more sensible than a great many other Tory MPs, having both a plan on what to do next and noticing that there are other things going on which make things tonight difficult.
I think all this chaos is co-ordinated to keep us checking in on the site every few minutes
Personally I think it is very sad to see TM hunkering down, refusing to meet cabinet ministers, and in denial that she is in the end days. If she wants to retain her dignity and respect, on Friday (post the EU vote) she must invite the leadership election to commence immediately.
Indeed anything else is madness and she will be forced out. I do not want to see that happen to her. TM has faced the most extraordinary amount of abuse and misogyny including from her own mps like the ghastly Francois actually indicating a violent end by slitting her throat.
It is just totally unacceptable. TM has tried to resolve the intractable and no amount of abuse will alter the fact not one other politician could have resolved this unending deadlock
> It's so undignified! You can only smile.
Utterly pitiful.
She's going to have to be prised, fingertip by fingertip out of her Downing St bunker...
> I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
Can't you knock a few heads together and come up with someone a little more sensible than Raab C Brexit or Boris 'the ego' Johnson?
> > @Casino_Royale said:
> > I’ve already laid off my Lidington.
>
> I’ve laid off some of mine. I fancy that the prices will shorten again further before the week is out.
>
> He is part of my trinity of major moneymakers on the next PM market, together with Jacob Rees-Mogg and Jeremy Corbyn. Gawd bless that unlikely trio.
Surely you've indulged in the free money that has been David Millband too?
(Easily my best result from the clown-spotter)
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > @Casino_Royale said:
> > > I’ve already laid off my Lidington.
> >
> > I’ve laid off some of mine. I fancy that the prices will shorten again further before the week is out.
> >
> > He is part of my trinity of major moneymakers on the next PM market, together with Jacob Rees-Mogg and Jeremy Corbyn. Gawd bless that unlikely trio.
>
> Surely you've indulged in the free money that has been David Millband too?
>
> (Easily my best result from the clown-spotter)
Oh yes, and Nigel Farage too recently. But they are next tier down for me.
> None of the last five people to take over as Prime Minister mid-term, Lord Home, Jim Callaghan, John Major, Gordon Brown and Theresa May herself, have called an immediate General Election in the same year.
>
> Nowadays the PM no longer has the power to 'call' one, they have to take place every 5 years unless MPs themselves want an earlier one.
>
> Opposition MPs don't have much to lose but why would government MPs vote for an early election when they are behind in the opinion polls?
Of those, I think only Callaghan didn't have a majority.
Interesting too that all lost seats and 3/5 their government at the subsequent GE.
I feel your conflicted loyalties.
Ireland vote on Friday
Saturday: Slovakia, Malta and Latvia
Czech Republic vote on Friday and Saturday
Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guyane, Saint-Barhélémy, Saint-Martin, Saint-Pierre et-Miquelon and Polynésie Française also vote on Saturday.
Remaining countries vote on Sunday
> > @kle4 said:
>
> > Steve Baker notices there’s an election happening.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1131251270717718528
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > My gods, another comment that proves that, disagree with him about no deal and how good it would be all we may want, Baker actually is more sensible than a great many other Tory MPs, having both a plan on what to do next and noticing that there are other things going on which make things tonight difficult.
>
>
>
> I think all this chaos is co-ordinated to keep us checking in on the site every few minutes
>
>
>
> Personally I think it is very sad to see TM hunkering down, refusing to meet cabinet ministers, and in denial that she is in the end days. If she wants to retain her dignity and respect, on Friday (post the EU vote) she must invite the leadership election to commence immediately.
>
>
>
> Indeed anything else is madness and she will be forced out. I do not want to see that happen to her. TM has faced the most extraordinary amount of abuse and misogyny including from her own mps like the ghastly Francois actually indicating a violent end by slitting her throat.
>
>
>
> It is just totally unacceptable. TM has tried to resolve the intractable and no amount of abuse will alter the fact not one other politician could have resolved this unending deadlock
>
> Yes she must invite the leadership contest to commence immediately. But who to be PM? You know the MPs willnot want her in post while they have their contest.
As caretaker PM I think most would see it as a fair compromise.
> Tomorrow is voting day also in the Netherlands for Euro elections.
>
> Ireland vote on Friday
>
> Saturday: Slovakia, Malta and Latvia
>
> Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guyane, Saint-Barhélémy, Saint-Martin, Saint-Pierre et-Miquelon and Polynésie Française also vote on Saturday.
>
> Remaining countries vote on Sunday
>
>
Do the final polls close on Sunday at 9pm British time or 10pm?
> > @JohnO said:
> > I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
>
> Can't you knock a few heads together and come up with someone a little more sensible than Raab C Brexit or Boris 'the ego' Johnson?
Oh, the Baker, Bridgen, Francois, Jenkyns crowd will have won. Hate it, but there you go. The Flint, Nancy, Cooper, Benn mob on your side played for high stakes in their hope that scuppering the flawed May deal would lead to revoke or a referendum. It won’t. They should have looked beyond narrow advantage and realised that the best is usually the enemy of the good. But they didn’t. And serves them right.
> @AndyJS said:
> > @AndreaParma_82 said:
> > Tomorrow is voting day also in the Netherlands for Euro elections.
> >
> > Ireland vote on Friday
> >
> > Saturday: Slovakia, Malta and Latvia
> >
> > Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guyane, Saint-Barhélémy, Saint-Martin, Saint-Pierre et-Miquelon and Polynésie Française also vote on Saturday.
> >
> > Remaining countries vote on Sunday
> >
> >
>
> Do the final polls close on Sunday at 9pm British time or 10pm?
> I'm sort of half expecting to see live footage of May being chased, Benny Hill style, by an army of cabinet ministers, backbenchers and political journalists, as the theme tune plays.
With Garage running in the other direction being chased with people with milkshakes.
> > @solarflare said:
> > I'm sort of half expecting to see live footage of May being chased, Benny Hill style, by an army of cabinet ministers, backbenchers and political journalists, as the theme tune plays.
>
> With Garage running in the other direction being chased with people with milkshakes.
Damn, that should be Farage.
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @JohnO said:
> > > I strongly supported May’s deal and will vote Conservative tomorrow. But I’ll shed few tears should the BP outperform expectations and poll towards 40%. She’s got to go and I just can’t see any alternative to Johnson or Raab becoming leader and the U.K. slouching to a No Deal Brexit. It’ll probably end in tears (who knows) but it’s the course I now feel we have to tread.
> >
> > Can't you knock a few heads together and come up with someone a little more sensible than Raab C Brexit or Boris 'the ego' Johnson?
>
> Oh, the Baker, Bridgen, Francois, Jenkyns crowd will have won. Hate it, but there you go. The Flint, Nancy, Cooper, Benn mob on your side played for high stakes in their hope that scuppering the flawed May deal would lead to revoke or a referendum. It won’t. They should have looked beyond narrow advantage and realised that the best is usually the enemy of the good. But they didn’t. And serves them right.
Flint backed the deal, but your point is right.
> Italy polls close at 11PM local time which is 10pm for you
>
>
> > @AndyJS said:
> > > @AndreaParma_82 said:
> > > Tomorrow is voting day also in the Netherlands for Euro elections.
> > >
> > > Ireland vote on Friday
> > >
> > > Saturday: Slovakia, Malta and Latvia
> > >
> > > Guadeloupe, Martinique, Guyane, Saint-Barhélémy, Saint-Martin, Saint-Pierre et-Miquelon and Polynésie Française also vote on Saturday.
> > >
> > > Remaining countries vote on Sunday
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Do the final polls close on Sunday at 9pm British time or 10pm?
>
>
Thanks, that explains why we have to wait until 10pm to start counting the votes. I think it's earlier in most countries (close of polling).
Nevertheless, I feel a dilemma. While I now think we should remain, I did very much back the deal and this might be the chance to register support for that outcome at an election. But that would mean rewarding the pathetic shower that is the Tory party. On the other hand the LDs might be able to sneak a second seat if I back them, but they have been quite extremist for a long time on Brexit, and should I reward that? CUK deserve something for boldness but don't seem to offer anything, a vote Labour would be fine but they seem somewhat confused about just how remainy or not they are. BXP and UKIp have at least attempted to get my vote through leaflets but, er, no, no thanks.
So I think I might boil it down to the final two and toss a coin.
> > @solarflare said:
> > I'm sort of half expecting to see live footage of May being chased, Benny Hill style, by an army of cabinet ministers, backbenchers and political journalists, as the theme tune plays.
>
> With Garage running in the other direction being chased with people with milkshakes.
Garage !!!!!
Also, amusing quite from the Channel 4 reporter "I'm outside number 10 and Theresa May is still the Prime Minister"
It’s Labour who have also been instrumental in shooting this down, and are doing it even now.
As far as I can tell May is giving them everything they wanted and they are *still* opposing it wholeheartedly.
The way Tories regularly conflate what is in their interests with what is in the country’s interests is despicable. Drive your own bus over a cliff if you must. But stop including the rest of us in your “we”.
> She can't lead, and they can't plot. It's beyond a shambles now.
An unstoppable farce meets an immovable object