> @Stark_Dawning said: > > @Gardenwalker said: > > > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed. > > > > > > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May. > > > > He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually. > > > > Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support. > > Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
The real hand grenade in the whole political scene would be if Corbyn was replaced as leader of the Labour Party. At that point I suspect we would see some massive swings in opinion polls - depending of course on who replaced him.
> @_Anazina_ said: > > @nico67 said: > > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > > @TGOHF said: > > > > > > > > > The tories are going to get destroyed on Thursday . She has openly stuck two fingers up to 17.4 million people . The electorate will not forgive them for this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Next leader has to disavow May, Hammond and the other losers who have made this shit soup. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And then what. The parliamentary maths do not change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this fails as is likely I expect Brexit will not happen > > > > > > > > If it doesn’t happen before the GE it will afterwards. When the Con party will be destroyed. > > > > > > > > Next Con PM has to do Brexit - if that means getting thrown out for stopping payments then that is what will be required. > > > > > > > > What do you think happens to a country which refuses to pay the amounts it legally owes? Especially a country which is having to borrow money every single day from foreigners who have to trust that country to pay them back? > > > > > > > > No need not to pay agreed sums just tell the EU we will extend on free membership only - take it or leave it. > > > > > > Lmao ! You should take up comedy . If the UK doesn’t pay its obligations then the EU will not do any deals . And you are aware the trade agreements the EU has with Canada and Japan have clauses . Those countries won’t do a deal then with the UK . Are you intent on turning the country into a pariah on the international stage . You need to face reality . The world doesn’t revolve around the UK , > > > > It's OK, we'll just pass a law to repeal the Statute of Westminster and we'll have an instant imperial preference market to trade with. > > Or simply don’t ask for an extension. > > Your master strategies of the “no deal waves” and “we’re leaving, suck it up” ilk have proven laughably flawed. Simply reading back the overconfident posts from you and your kindred spirit Mortimer makes for premium comedy.
In hindsight this utter collapse can be laid at the feet of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill, possibly the worst advisers in political history.
Fiona Hill doubled as Mrs May’s fashion adviser, and the PM’s dress sense actually *improved* after she and Nick were sacked.
Remarkably shite, the pair of them.
At least Fiona Hill has had the good grace to STFU in the months since, whereas Nick Timothy is to be found in every right-wing paper in the land lecturing us all about how it would all be so much better if May just followed his advice.
Good ! Hammond is clearly one of the saner cabinet members . He’ll be out of a job soon and will then join the other group of saner Tories on the backbenches who will try and stop a no deal.
> Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else.
>
> Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting.
They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that).
Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
I think SLAB or Welsh Labour are the most deserving of a pity vote.
Those buggers are getting the dockside hooker treatment.
> @kle4 said: > > @TheScreamingEagles said: > > Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else. > > > > Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting. > > They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that). > > Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
I've nearly got the full collection: Brexit, Labour, Green, ChUK, UKIP and English Democrats. Still missing Lib Dem and Conservative though.
ChUK will be getting my sympathy vote on Thursday. Someone needs to vote for them after all.
I guess Mr Clifton-Brown might as well enjoy his brief moment in the spotlight before the Lib Dems take his seat, as they have taken the local District Council.
> Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else.
>
> Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting.
They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that).
Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
I think SLAB or Welsh Labour are the most deserving of a pity vote.
Those buggers are getting the dockside hooker treatment.
Give over. Welsh Labour have operated a closed shop for over 100 years.
> @Casino_Royale said: > May has probably also driven a stake through the heart of any remaining Tory support for Thursday as well. > > I can’t vote for Farage and Banks and their bunch of charlatans either so I will write COMPLETE FARCE across my ballot paper. > > I do hope, however, TBP strip as many votes as possible away from Labour in their heartlands. > > They deserve it.
> @Richard_Tyndall said: > > @Stark_Dawning said: > > > @Gardenwalker said: > > > > > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed. > > > > > > > > > > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May. > > > > > > > > He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually. > > > > > > > > Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support. > > > > Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through. > > The real hand grenade in the whole political scene would be if Corbyn was replaced as leader of the Labour Party. At that point I suspect we would see some massive swings in opinion polls - depending of course on who replaced him.
Jess Phillips is in the meejah a lot recently, he says admiring his Lab Leadership book...
I don't think there was really an intention to. Just an intention to demonstrate, should Brexit end up not occurring, that May did try to see it happen, that she wanted to give them the opportunity to leave. So it's more for her memoirs.
I think it's not beyond Boris to pivot away from no deal after the no dealers have elected him. But it's not a great campaign pledge: vote for me and I'll betray my other set of supporters.
Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
> @Foxy said: > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > > @Stark_Dawning said: > > > > @Gardenwalker said: > > > > > > > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May. > > > > > > > > > > > > He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support. > > > > > > Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through. > > > > The real hand grenade in the whole political scene would be if Corbyn was replaced as leader of the Labour Party. At that point I suspect we would see some massive swings in opinion polls - depending of course on who replaced him. > > Jess Phillips is in the meejah a lot recently, he says admiring his Lab Leadership book...
LibDems campaigning outside Birmingham New Street station this afternoon. Chap offered me a leaflet, which I declined by telling him that I am a Labour Party member. I cheered him up when I added that I'm voting Green!
> @Mauve said: > > @kle4 said: > > > @TheScreamingEagles said: > > > Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else. > > > > > > Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting. > > > > They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that). > > > > Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable. > > I've nearly got the full collection: Brexit, Labour, Green, ChUK, UKIP and English Democrats. Still missing Lib Dem and Conservative though. > > ChUK will be getting my sympathy vote on Thursday. Someone needs to vote for them after all.
Despite her having done nothing useful for 6 months I do have great sympathy for May and those who back the deal, but the Tories are quite evidently about to go full no deal, so there seems little point in a sympathy vote for them.
> @SandyRentool said: > LibDems campaigning outside Birmingham New Street station this afternoon. Chap offered me a leaflet, which I declined by telling him that I am a Labour Party member. I cheered him up when I added that I'm voting Green!
Dont tell em Sandy otherwise your an Ex Lab member.
Given all the reaction to May's latest speech I'm glad I held off backing the Brexit Party to only get 25-30% on Thursday. All she seems to have managed to do is annoy both sides equally.
Bringing the country together by acting as a central figure of impotence. I guess it's one strategy. Probably not a good strategy though.
> Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed.
>
> He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May.
He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually.
Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support.
Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
He’s deluded if he thinks that. As is anyone putting their faith in him.
Still, Brexit is now a religion. So faith is the only thing that matters.
> Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else.
>
> Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting.
They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that).
Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
I think SLAB or Welsh Labour are the most deserving of a pity vote.
Those buggers are getting the dockside hooker treatment.
Give over. Welsh Labour have operated a closed shop for over 100 years.
> @Mauve said: > Given all the reaction to May's latest speech I'm glad I held off backing the Brexit Party to only get 25-30% on Thursday. All she seems to have managed to do is annoy both sides equally. > > Bringing the country together by acting as a central figure of impotence. I guess it's one strategy. Probably not a good strategy though.
She'll last as PM, probably, until the end of May (oh the jokes) so she gets to go past Brown and Wellington, so she can take that for what it is worth - not much, but all she can get.
> Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed.
>
> He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May.
He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually.
Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support.
Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
He’s deluded
I think those two words were perfectly adequate by themselves, Cyclefree!
> @TheScreamingEagles said: > > @TheScreamingEagles said: > > > Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else. > > > > > > Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting. > > > > They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that). > > > > Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable. > > I think SLAB or Welsh Labour are the most deserving of a pity vote. > > Those buggers are getting the dockside hooker treatment. > > Give over. Welsh Labour have operated a closed shop for over 100 years. > > They deserve the biggest thrashing possible. > > I don't disagree.
Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
> Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else.
>
> Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting.
They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that).
Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
I think SLAB or Welsh Labour are the most deserving of a pity vote.
Those buggers are getting the dockside hooker treatment.
Give over. Welsh Labour have operated a closed shop for over 100 years.
They deserve the biggest thrashing possible.
I don't disagree.
Who is going to vote for a party led by Mark Drakeford?
Like them or not, Morgan and Jones were significant political figures with ability and force. Yet even they had at best very mixed records in the role.
Drakeford is like a stupid version of Alun Michael, with twenty years of failure to explain away.
> @_Anazina_ said: > Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin? > > > They say he was great for a night out.
> @kle4 said: > Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
> > > Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else.
> > >
> > > Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting.
> >
> > They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that).
> >
> > Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
>
> I've nearly got the full collection: Brexit, Labour, Green, ChUK, UKIP and English Democrats. Still missing Lib Dem and Conservative though.
>
> ChUK will be getting my sympathy vote on Thursday. Someone needs to vote for them after all.
Despite her having done nothing useful for 6 months I do have great sympathy for May and those who back the deal, but the Tories are quite evidently about to go full no deal, so there seems little point in a sympathy vote for them.
Yes, anyone not in favour of No Deal but who still wants Brexit seems to have been sidelined now and is being ignored. There's always Labour of course - they pretend to be open to all options whilst not providing any real sense of what priority they place on each of those options, other than vague statements about bringing the country back together.
Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
It all seems like the calm before the storm. The 'outrage' against Deal 4.0 or whatever is rather muted in my opinion. Is everyone just waiting for the European Elections?
> > Not a new observation of course, but it seems to be tiling in favour of the no-dealers now. The Farage party wins the Euros, Tories panic and elect a no-dealer, end of the line
> >
> > Except electing a no-dealer to lead the ERG rump of the Tories doesn't actually get them no deal...
> >
> > Revoke is as close today as it has ever been
>
> Wow! Just checked Betfair and it's down to 2.9. Been edging down for a while but that's a sudden shift.
> @ydoethur said: > Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin? > > > They say he was great for a night out. > > @kle4 > Hobsbawm and Carr.
AH, of course, Hobsbawm! He has been talked about recently, how could I have forgotten him?
> @El_Capitano said: > I guess Mr Clifton-Brown might as well enjoy his brief moment in the spotlight before the Lib Dems take his seat, as they have taken the local District Council.
"What she said: To those MPs who want a second referendum to confirm the deal: you need a deal and therefore a Withdrawal Agreement Bill to make it happen. Support free-thinking journalism and subscribe to Independent Minds
What she meant: But no MP advocating a second referendum wants it to confirm the deal; they want it to stop Brexit. For them, it would be much easier just to vote against the bill, so I don’t know why I am wasting my time. "
> > > > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support.
> > >
> > > Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
> >
> > The real hand grenade in the whole political scene would be if Corbyn was replaced as leader of the Labour Party. At that point I suspect we would see some massive swings in opinion polls - depending of course on who replaced him.
>
> Jess Phillips is in the meejah a lot recently, he says admiring his Lab Leadership book...
Jess 4% Phillips is the new Liz 4% Kendall
You love to hate on articulate bright women in your party, who don’t live in the past like the twerps you love in the leader’s office.
> @GIN1138 said: > > @MTimT said: > > When will the votes be counted? Is it Thursday night or Friday? > > Sunday from 10pm. > > Get the booze (and popcorn) in now!
Yes, I think it is going to be a goody, lots of "how did that happen."
> @Gallowgate said: > It all seems like the calm before the storm. The 'outrage' against Deal 4.0 or whatever is rather muted in my opinion. Is everyone just waiting for the European Elections?
It's because it is so obviously dead why bother getting too worked up, we're just biding time until May is ousted, probably next week (or at least announced her leaving next week), plus maybe my theory that it will not be brought because it is so dead is actually true. So why get worked up over something that will never be voted on?
The Tory Party have become like Westworld Series 2...a total shambles that nobody really knows what is going on, including those directly involved in it.
The question now must arise. Why did the Cabinet sign off on this? Did none of them say this is madness? Have they given up arguing? Or are they just bad at politics?
> Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed.
>
> He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May.
He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually.
Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support.
Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
He’s deluded
I think those two words were perfectly adequate by themselves, Cyclefree!
I am reading Richard Davenport-Hines’s book on the Cambridge spies and, by pure coincidence, I read these words this morning:
“Popularity was the chief ambition of boys at any boarding school. To achieve this, so Cyril Connolly argued in his memoir of Eton, they needed nonchalance, charm, fortitude and moral cowardice, and to hide their intelligence “as a good tailor hides a paunch or a bump”. Deceptive powers were requisite for popularity.”
As a complete aside, Nick P attends his first meeting as a Waverley Borough Councillor (happening now).
Item 9 is the election of a new Council leader and it will be fascinating to see if the Farnham Residents and LDs can join forces to oust the Conservatives.
If not, the Conservatives could continue as a minority administration as they are the largest group despite their heavy losses nearly three weeks ago.
> @dixiedean said: > The question now must arise. Why did the Cabinet sign off on this? Did none of them say this is madness? Have they given up arguing? Or are they just bad at politics?
I cannot understand this Cabinet. They often leak they are angry, at loggerheads with one another, or even that Mays' plans are terrible, yet they stick around. It cannot do their own job prospects any good, yet if they have been convinced that no deal is indeed bad why are they not more bullish indefending these actions? It does their careers no good to stick around if they do not really back it, but it does the country no good to half back these actions but mope about half heartedly.
What a pile of drivel. I doubt she believes it for a start, but seriously, I'm supposed to be appalled at the 'entitlement' of someone saying they love their job as PM? Especially with the most likely successor someone who is so entitled his outriders moan about how dare he be kept out of a leadership contest under the rules, and they must be changes to accomodate him (even if not by name, we know who is meant).
What a pile of drivel. I doubt she believes it for a start, but seriously, I'm supposed to be appalled at the 'entitlement' of someone saying they love their job as PM? Especially with the most likely successor someone who is so entitled his outriders moan about how dare he be kept out of a leadership contest under the rules, and they must be changes to accomodate him (even if not by name, we know who is meant).
Indeed, well said. I met the weasel Letts once - he really is annoying as he looks.
> @GIN1138 said: > > @Jonathan said: > > > @CarlottaVance said: > > > https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007 > > > > Man of principle. > > Other than the likes of Grieve no Tory can support a deal thats paving the way to a second refernedum. > > No idea why Theresa thought she'd get this past her party but this is the final mistake. > > She's done!
Who cares? No, seriously, who cares? We've been told May has been done for a long time now, and she has been totally without authority since MV3 failed at the least. It's understandable we are focusong on her, but really, until we see whether a new leader can actually carry their party, parliament or the public, it doesn't matter if May goes or not.
> @stodge said: > As a complete aside, Nick P attends his first meeting as a Waverley Borough Councillor (happening now). > > Item 9 is the election of a new Council leader and it will be fascinating to see if the Farnham Residents and LDs can join forces to oust the Conservatives. > > If not, the Conservatives could continue as a minority administration as they are the largest group despite their heavy losses nearly three weeks ago. > > Follow the meeting here: > > https://twitter.com/farnhamherald?lang=en > > Conservative elected Mayor and Farnham Residents Councillor chosen as Deputy Mayor.
What a pile of drivel. I doubt she believes it for a start, but seriously, I'm supposed to be appalled at the 'entitlement' of someone saying they love their job as PM? Especially with the most likely successor someone who is so entitled his outriders moan about how dare he be kept out of a leadership contest under the rules, and they must be changes to accomodate him (even if not by name, we know who is meant).
Indeed, well said. I met the weasel Letts once - he really is annoying as he looks.
I doubt he was terribly impressed by you either.
I think I made it clear he was behaving like the overinflated schoolboy dweeb he is, so probably not, you are right.
> @ralphmalph said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > > @MTimT said: > > > When will the votes be counted? Is it Thursday night or Friday? > > > > Sunday from 10pm. > > > > Get the booze (and popcorn) in now! > > Yes, I think it is going to be a goody, lots of "how did that happen."
At least it no longer clashes with GoT, but I suspect the Euro results will be more epic and less CGI.
> @solarflare said: > So if this is "the only way now to deliver Brexit" as May herself says then presumably when it gets voted down she will be revoking A50. > > Or, more likely, doing a Cameron and fucking off to leave someone else to deal with the mess.
It doesn't alter the fact her successor will be confronted by the same situation. He or she may offer bellicose rantings about going off to Brussels and demanding change but Barnier and Juncker aren't going to budge. Tusk will say nice things but he knows the EU will go no further.
So whoever it is will either have to Revoke, leave without a WA or, pace May, have to go cap in hand seeking yet another extension.
Each of the prospective candidates should be asked how they intend to break the deadlock.
So if this is "the only way now to deliver Brexit" as May herself says then presumably when it gets voted down she will be revoking A50.
Or, more likely, doing a Cameron and fucking off to leave someone else to deal with the mess.
If they can't agree on anything, the EU may simply close the whole thing down on 31 October.
By then everyone will know how we've voted on Thursday, how the rest of the EU has voted (the Polish, French and Italian 'Farage's are all winning in the polls) and the outcome of the Peterborough by election.
> Waahhhhh, me want Brexit so much, give it to me!!!!! > > > > Sound strategy Mr Johnson. > > What is actually wrong with Boris's tweet (bearing in mind I am not a fan of the guy) that warrants this shite response?
'We can and must do better and deliver what the people voted for' is a meaningless thing to say unless he has a plan to deliver it, and a plan which is actually realistic. So, for instance, if his plan is to go no deal unequivocally and seek a GE to back that, that would be a plan, and I am actually interested to see if he can make that realistic. But the problem with the statement is I am looking at it in the context of his longstanding remarks, which are usually nothing but bombastic bluster with no substance.
Now, what is actually wrong with me not thinking Boris has a strategy because of his vapid comments and history of silly rhetoric that merits your shite response? Are you to tell me that someone known for shifting position all the time, and spouting stirring but empty rhetoric, simply saying 'we must do better' means anything?
Would you think there was nothing to mock in Corbyn saying something empty like 'We must do better'?
Don't make me laugh. Anybody whose response to this is 'we must do better' and is living on hope it works out is being a fool as far as I am concerned, leaver or remainer, or else being deceitful as to what they intend to do.
I see nothing untoward in portraying that as being like a baby. Many on each side act like babies in this.
Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
> Waahhhhh, me want Brexit so much, give it to me!!!!!
>
>
>
> Sound strategy Mr Johnson.
>
> What is actually wrong with Boris's tweet (bearing in mind I am not a fan of the guy) that warrants this shite response?
'We can and must do better and deliver what the people voted for' is a meaningless thing to say unless he has a plan to deliver it, and a plan which is actually realistic. So, for instance, if his plan is to go no deal unequivocally and seek a GE to back that, that would be a plan, and I am actually interested to see if he can make that realistic. But the problem with the statement is I am looking at it in the context of his longstanding remarks, which are usually nothing but bombastic bluster with no substance.
Now, what is actually wrong with me not thinking Boris has a strategy because of his vapid comments and history of silly rhetoric that merits your shite response?
All in a single Tweet? He's a politician, not Mary Poppins.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Gardenwalker said: > > > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed. > > > > > > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May. > > > > He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually. > > > > Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support. > > Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through. > > He’s deluded > > I think those two words were perfectly adequate by themselves, Cyclefree! > > I am reading Richard Davenport-Hines’s book on the Cambridge spies and, by pure coincidence, I read these words this morning: > > “Popularity was the chief ambition of boys at any boarding school. To achieve this, so Cyril Connolly argued in his memoir of Eton, they needed nonchalance, charm, fortitude and moral cowardice, and to hide their intelligence “as a good tailor hides a paunch or a bump”. Deceptive powers were requisite for popularity.” > > Plus ca change......
Deception, or at least dissembling, is key to successful social interaction. If we wear our intentions on our sleeves, we will systematically be taken advantage of by those so inclined.
For a less high-brow target, just look at the survivor series on TV. The winners always have to hide their abilities and intentions.
> So if this is "the only way now to deliver Brexit" as May herself says then presumably when it gets voted down she will be revoking A50.
>
> Or, more likely, doing a Cameron and fucking off to leave someone else to deal with the mess.
It doesn't alter the fact her successor will be confronted by the same situation. He or she may offer bellicose rantings about going off to Brussels and demanding change but Barnier and Juncker aren't going to budge. Tusk will say nice things but he knows the EU will go no further.
So whoever it is will either have to Revoke, leave without a WA or, pace May, have to go cap in hand seeking yet another extension.
Each of the prospective candidates should be asked how they intend to break the deadlock.
You think they’ll give a coherent answer? It’ll all be bluff and bluster and unrealistic demands and sacrifices (by us) and nonsense.
The tweet should really start with a ‘Yes’ since Boris was happy cheering May along (and indeed led the toast at Chequers) until he saw Davis going for the door.
> @Luckyguy1983 said: > All in a single Tweet? He's a politician, not Mary Poppins. -------------- I considered in context of his historical remarks, as I said. He could have said in a tweet 'and i have a plan on how to do that', whether or not his plan was good. Again, I fail to see the problem in considering his remarks in context, nor in his attitude as being like that of a baby throwing a tantrum, since that is what he is acting like. He is not alone in that, leave or remain.
Pick a politician, any one at random, and consider if them saying something like 'we must do better on Y' despite a history of vapidity and uselessness on the subject, and tell me that we cannot criticise them because that single statement is unobjectionable, so long as you ignore everything else we know about them.
> @Charles said: > Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin? > > AJP Taylor?
He was my first thought - but I am not so sure he was a fan of Leninist communism.
> @kle4 said: > > @dixiedean said: > > The question now must arise. Why did the Cabinet sign off on this? Did none of them say this is madness? Have they given up arguing? Or are they just bad at politics? > > I cannot understand this Cabinet. They often leak they are angry, at loggerheads with one another, or even that Mays' plans are terrible, yet they stick around. It cannot do their own job prospects any good, yet if they have been convinced that no deal is indeed bad why are they not more bullish indefending these actions? It does their careers no good to stick around if they do not really back it, but it does the country no good to half back these actions but mope about half heartedly.
I wonder if most of them are merely hanging on in the hope that the new leader will keep them on. In a "we stuck through all this crap, so you can be sure we won't walk out on you in a strop" kinda way.
> @Charles said: > Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin? > > AJP Taylor?
A man with a fabulous turn of phrase.
Sadly, his grasp of the English language was sometimes better than his grasp of - ummm - history.
(The Origins of the Second World War is a terrific read.)
> @Charles said: > Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin? > > AJP Taylor?
Stalin killed most of the others.
I presumed almost every young historian had somehow managed to have a good view about Lenin. He's the best of the bunch associated with the left.
. He or she may offer bellicose rantings about going off to Brussels and demanding change but Barnier and Juncker aren't going to budge. Tusk will say nice things but he knows the EU will go no further.
There will be some changing of the guard within the EU institutions in the coming days and months. There is a possibility it might bring about some movement and some reflection on their side.
The 2014 EU establishment was very much the old federalist style grouping. The 2019 version is likely to be more abrasive, polarised and have a bigger group of members pushing a eurosceptic message.
I think there are probably a sizeable number of UK remainers who voted that way out of fear, rather than affection for the EU.
There is little advocacy and seems to be very little appetite for a Macron/Verhofstadt style vision, so if we are in their parliament, we are probably best represented by those who do not want further expansion or integration and who will firmly hold the line as a bare minimum.
I suspect half hearted but fearful remainers probably add at least 20% to the 50% who are Leavers and that real fondness for the EU is very much a minority pastime.
Comments
> > @Gardenwalker said:
>
> > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed.
>
> >
>
> > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May.
>
>
>
> He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually.
>
>
>
> Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support.
>
> Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
The real hand grenade in the whole political scene would be if Corbyn was replaced as leader of the Labour Party. At that point I suspect we would see some massive swings in opinion polls - depending of course on who replaced him.
If you stand for nothing you’ll fall for nothing.
> > @nico67 said:
>
> > > @TGOHF said:
>
> > > > @TGOHF said:
>
> > >
>
> > > > The tories are going to get destroyed on Thursday . She has openly stuck two fingers up to 17.4 million people . The electorate will not forgive them for this
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Next leader has to disavow May, Hammond and the other losers who have made this shit soup.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > And then what. The parliamentary maths do not change.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > If this fails as is likely I expect Brexit will not happen
>
> > >
>
> > > If it doesn’t happen before the GE it will afterwards. When the Con party will be destroyed.
>
> > >
>
> > > Next Con PM has to do Brexit - if that means getting thrown out for stopping payments then that is what will be required.
>
> > >
>
> > > What do you think happens to a country which refuses to pay the amounts it legally owes? Especially a country which is having to borrow money every single day from foreigners who have to trust that country to pay them back?
>
> > >
>
> > > No need not to pay agreed sums just tell the EU we will extend on free membership only - take it or leave it.
>
> >
>
> > Lmao ! You should take up comedy . If the UK doesn’t pay its obligations then the EU will not do any deals . And you are aware the trade agreements the EU has with Canada and Japan have clauses . Those countries won’t do a deal then with the UK . Are you intent on turning the country into a pariah on the international stage . You need to face reality . The world doesn’t revolve around the UK ,
>
>
>
> It's OK, we'll just pass a law to repeal the Statute of Westminster and we'll have an instant imperial preference market to trade with.
>
> Or simply don’t ask for an extension.
>
> Your master strategies of the “no deal waves” and “we’re leaving, suck it up” ilk have proven laughably flawed. Simply reading back the overconfident posts from you and your kindred spirit Mortimer makes for premium comedy.
It would if it was not insane
> Stewart Jackson: Philip Hammond is determined to assassinate Brexit
>
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/21/philip-hammond-determined-assassinate-brexit-reaches-climax/
Good ! Hammond is clearly one of the saner cabinet members . He’ll be out of a job soon and will then join the other group of saner Tories on the backbenches who will try and stop a no deal.
Those buggers are getting the dockside hooker treatment.
I can’t vote for Farage and Banks and their bunch of charlatans either so I will write COMPLETE FARCE across my ballot paper.
I do hope, however, TBP strip as many votes as possible away from Labour in their heartlands.
They deserve it.
Can they even read? (Not such a stupid question, Jake Rees’ new book proves he cannot write)
> > @TheScreamingEagles said:
> > Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else.
> >
> > Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting.
>
> They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that).
>
> Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
I've nearly got the full collection: Brexit, Labour, Green, ChUK, UKIP and English Democrats. Still missing Lib Dem and Conservative though.
ChUK will be getting my sympathy vote on Thursday. Someone needs to vote for them after all.
https://twitter.com/pm4eastren/status/1130896624002187264?s=21
They deserve the biggest thrashing possible.
> May has probably also driven a stake through the heart of any remaining Tory support for Thursday as well.
>
> I can’t vote for Farage and Banks and their bunch of charlatans either so I will write COMPLETE FARCE across my ballot paper.
>
> I do hope, however, TBP strip as many votes as possible away from Labour in their heartlands.
>
> They deserve it.
You could write.
I hate Labour on your ballot
That will show them!!
> > @Stark_Dawning said:
> > > @Gardenwalker said:
> >
> > > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May.
> >
> >
> >
> > He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support.
> >
> > Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
>
> The real hand grenade in the whole political scene would be if Corbyn was replaced as leader of the Labour Party. At that point I suspect we would see some massive swings in opinion polls - depending of course on who replaced him.
Jess Phillips is in the meejah a lot recently, he says admiring his Lab Leadership book...
> https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1130900913563029504
I don't think there was really an intention to. Just an intention to demonstrate, should Brexit end up not occurring, that May did try to see it happen, that she wanted to give them the opportunity to leave. So it's more for her memoirs.
Sun is shining. I have a beautiful wife and baby, a lovely home and a great job.
This is only politics. You can only do so much.
> https://twitter.com/cathynewman/status/1130903715601367042?s=21
Yes. Why would Boris care about that? He would get to be PM.
> > @Richard_Tyndall said:
> > > @Stark_Dawning said:
> > > > @Gardenwalker said:
> > >
> > > > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support.
> > >
> > > Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
> >
> > The real hand grenade in the whole political scene would be if Corbyn was replaced as leader of the Labour Party. At that point I suspect we would see some massive swings in opinion polls - depending of course on who replaced him.
>
> Jess Phillips is in the meejah a lot recently, he says admiring his Lab Leadership book...
Jess 4% Phillips is the new Liz 4% Kendall
Stewart Jackson should take a leave of absence from public life; he is not fit for it.
> > @kle4 said:
> > > @TheScreamingEagles said:
> > > Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else.
> > >
> > > Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting.
> >
> > They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that).
> >
> > Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
>
> I've nearly got the full collection: Brexit, Labour, Green, ChUK, UKIP and English Democrats. Still missing Lib Dem and Conservative though.
>
> ChUK will be getting my sympathy vote on Thursday. Someone needs to vote for them after all.
Despite her having done nothing useful for 6 months I do have great sympathy for May and those who back the deal, but the Tories are quite evidently about to go full no deal, so there seems little point in a sympathy vote for them.
> LibDems campaigning outside Birmingham New Street station this afternoon. Chap offered me a leaflet, which I declined by telling him that I am a Labour Party member. I cheered him up when I added that I'm voting Green!
Dont tell em Sandy otherwise your an Ex Lab member.
Bringing the country together by acting as a central figure of impotence. I guess it's one strategy. Probably not a good strategy though.
>
> Yes. Why would Boris care about that? He would get to be PM.
Boris’s number one fan doesn’t seem to have caught on.
https://twitter.com/rossthomson_mp/status/1130889690805166083?s=21
Still, Brexit is now a religion. So faith is the only thing that matters.
> Given all the reaction to May's latest speech I'm glad I held off backing the Brexit Party to only get 25-30% on Thursday. All she seems to have managed to do is annoy both sides equally.
>
> Bringing the country together by acting as a central figure of impotence. I guess it's one strategy. Probably not a good strategy though.
She'll last as PM, probably, until the end of May (oh the jokes) so she gets to go past Brown and Wellington, so she can take that for what it is worth - not much, but all she can get.
> https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1130879432082776064
Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
They won’t know what’s hit ‘em.
> > @TheScreamingEagles said:
>
> > Finally received another election leaflet, this time from UKIP. So that's Brexit and UKIP, and nobody else.
>
> >
>
> > Well you're a Leaver so you'd say that's effective targeting.
>
>
>
> They're not addressed to me they are addressed to the other resident of the house. They too voted leave, but sucks for the parties as they are disillusioned by parliament and will not vote ever again they say (the referendum was the first time they ever voted, and they even voted in the GE after that).
>
>
>
> Personally I'm looking to see who deserves a pity vote the most while not being too objectionable.
>
> I think SLAB or Welsh Labour are the most deserving of a pity vote.
>
> Those buggers are getting the dockside hooker treatment.
>
> Give over. Welsh Labour have operated a closed shop for over 100 years.
>
> They deserve the biggest thrashing possible.
>
> I don't disagree.
You should be in Rocket man what you playing at?
Bye from me lights are down.
They say he was great for a night out.
Like them or not, Morgan and Jones were significant political figures with ability and force. Yet even they had at best very mixed records in the role.
Drakeford is like a stupid version of Alun Michael, with twenty years of failure to explain away.
> Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
>
>
> They say he was great for a night out.
A party animal!
> Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
Well, there’s Tariq Ali...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/03/opinion/what-was-lenin-thinking.html
Hobsbawm and Carr.
> When will the votes be counted? Is it Thursday night or Friday?
Sunday
> Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
>
>
> They say he was great for a night out.
>
> @kle4
> Hobsbawm and Carr.
AH, of course, Hobsbawm! He has been talked about recently, how could I have forgotten him?
> When will the votes be counted? Is it Thursday night or Friday?
Sunday from 10pm.
Get the booze (and popcorn) in now!
> I guess Mr Clifton-Brown might as well enjoy his brief moment in the spotlight before the Lib Dems take his seat, as they have taken the local District Council.
Are you offering odds on that ?
There’s nothing much left to move to the BP.
My forecast the BP gets around 35% to 38% depending on turnout .
As for the rest the Labour v Lib Dem battle looks interesting because different polls give both sides hope of getting 2nd place .
> When will the votes be counted? Is it Thursday night or Friday?
Verfication that night, but no counting until after all Europe votes at the weekend.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-brexit-speech-second-referendum-final-say-explained-a8923946.html
"What she said: To those MPs who want a second referendum to confirm the deal: you need a deal and therefore a Withdrawal Agreement Bill to make it happen.
Support free-thinking journalism and subscribe to Independent Minds
What she meant: But no MP advocating a second referendum wants it to confirm the deal; they want it to stop Brexit. For them, it would be much easier just to vote against the bill, so I don’t know why I am wasting my time. "
> > @MTimT said:
> > When will the votes be counted? Is it Thursday night or Friday?
>
> Sunday from 10pm.
>
> Get the booze (and popcorn) in now!
Yes, I think it is going to be a goody, lots of "how did that happen."
> It all seems like the calm before the storm. The 'outrage' against Deal 4.0 or whatever is rather muted in my opinion. Is everyone just waiting for the European Elections?
It's because it is so obviously dead why bother getting too worked up, we're just biding time until May is ousted, probably next week (or at least announced her leaving next week), plus maybe my theory that it will not be brought because it is so dead is actually true. So why get worked up over something that will never be voted on?
> https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
Waahhhhh, me want Brexit so much, give it to me!!!!!
Sound strategy Mr Johnson.
> > @tlg86 said:
> > https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1130879432082776064
>
> Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
The Tory Party have become like Westworld Series 2...a total shambles that nobody really knows what is going on, including those directly involved in it.
> https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
As I was saying...
“Popularity was the chief ambition of boys at any boarding school. To achieve this, so Cyril Connolly argued in his memoir of Eton, they needed nonchalance, charm, fortitude and moral cowardice, and to hide their intelligence “as a good tailor hides a paunch or a bump”. Deceptive powers were requisite for popularity.”
Plus ca change......
> https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
Man of principle.
> The Brexit Party have got Václav Klaus appearing at their London rally tonight.
Er. Thought they objected to foreigners intervening in our politics?
> > @CarlottaVance said:
> > https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
>
> Man of principle.
Other than the likes of Grieve no Tory can support a deal thats paving the way to a second refernedum.
No idea why Theresa thought she'd get this past her party but this is the final mistake.
She's done!
> > @CarlottaVance said:
> > https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
>
> Man of principle.
> @Jonathan said:
> > @CarlottaVance said:
> > https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
>
> Man of principle.
> @Jonathan said:
> > @CarlottaVance said:
> > https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
>
> Man of principle.
> @williamglenn said:
> The Brexit Party have got Václav Klaus appearing at their London rally tonight.
Father or son the older is not my cup of tea know nothing about son
Item 9 is the election of a new Council leader and it will be fascinating to see if the Farnham Residents and LDs can join forces to oust the Conservatives.
If not, the Conservatives could continue as a minority administration as they are the largest group despite their heavy losses nearly three weeks ago.
Follow the meeting here:
https://twitter.com/farnhamherald?lang=en
Conservative elected Mayor and Farnham Residents Councillor chosen as Deputy Mayor.
> The question now must arise. Why did the Cabinet sign off on this? Did none of them say this is madness? Have they given up arguing? Or are they just bad at politics?
I cannot understand this Cabinet. They often leak they are angry, at loggerheads with one another, or even that Mays' plans are terrible, yet they stick around. It cannot do their own job prospects any good, yet if they have been convinced that no deal is indeed bad why are they not more bullish indefending these actions? It does their careers no good to stick around if they do not really back it, but it does the country no good to half back these actions but mope about half heartedly.
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @CarlottaVance said:
> > > https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
> >
> > Man of principle.
>
> Other than the likes of Grieve no Tory can support a deal thats paving the way to a second refernedum.
>
> No idea why Theresa thought she'd get this past her party but this is the final mistake.
>
> She's done!
Who cares? No, seriously, who cares? We've been told May has been done for a long time now, and she has been totally without authority since MV3 failed at the least. It's understandable we are focusong on her, but really, until we see whether a new leader can actually carry their party, parliament or the public, it doesn't matter if May goes or not.
Or, more likely, doing a Cameron and fucking off to leave someone else to deal with the mess.
> As a complete aside, Nick P attends his first meeting as a Waverley Borough Councillor (happening now).
>
> Item 9 is the election of a new Council leader and it will be fascinating to see if the Farnham Residents and LDs can join forces to oust the Conservatives.
>
> If not, the Conservatives could continue as a minority administration as they are the largest group despite their heavy losses nearly three weeks ago.
>
> Follow the meeting here:
>
> https://twitter.com/farnhamherald?lang=en
>
> Conservative elected Mayor and Farnham Residents Councillor chosen as Deputy Mayor.
Glad to see the local press cover the meeting,
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @MTimT said:
> > > When will the votes be counted? Is it Thursday night or Friday?
> >
> > Sunday from 10pm.
> >
> > Get the booze (and popcorn) in now!
>
> Yes, I think it is going to be a goody, lots of "how did that happen."
At least it no longer clashes with GoT, but I suspect the Euro results will be more epic and less CGI.
Yes, so we keep being told.
> So if this is "the only way now to deliver Brexit" as May herself says then presumably when it gets voted down she will be revoking A50.
>
> Or, more likely, doing a Cameron and fucking off to leave someone else to deal with the mess.
It doesn't alter the fact her successor will be confronted by the same situation. He or she may offer bellicose rantings about going off to Brussels and demanding change but Barnier and Juncker aren't going to budge. Tusk will say nice things but he knows the EU will go no further.
So whoever it is will either have to Revoke, leave without a WA or, pace May, have to go cap in hand seeking yet another extension.
Each of the prospective candidates should be asked how they intend to break the deadlock.
By then everyone will know how we've voted on Thursday, how the rest of the EU has voted (the Polish, French and Italian 'Farage's are all winning in the polls) and the outcome of the Peterborough by election.
> > @CarlottaVance said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
> Waahhhhh, me want Brexit so much, give it to me!!!!!
>
>
>
> Sound strategy Mr Johnson.
>
> What is actually wrong with Boris's tweet (bearing in mind I am not a fan of the guy) that warrants this shite response?
'We can and must do better and deliver what the people voted for' is a meaningless thing to say unless he has a plan to deliver it, and a plan which is actually realistic. So, for instance, if his plan is to go no deal unequivocally and seek a GE to back that, that would be a plan, and I am actually interested to see if he can make that realistic. But the problem with the statement is I am looking at it in the context of his longstanding remarks, which are usually nothing but bombastic bluster with no substance.
Now, what is actually wrong with me not thinking Boris has a strategy because of his vapid comments and history of silly rhetoric that merits your shite response? Are you to tell me that someone known for shifting position all the time, and spouting stirring but empty rhetoric, simply saying 'we must do better' means anything?
Would you think there was nothing to mock in Corbyn saying something empty like 'We must do better'?
Don't make me laugh. Anybody whose response to this is 'we must do better' and is living on hope it works out is being a fool as far as I am concerned, leaver or remainer, or else being deceitful as to what they intend to do.
I see nothing untoward in portraying that as being like a baby. Many on each side act like babies in this.
> > @Gardenwalker said:
>
> > Let’s assume the WAB fails and Boris is duly anointed.
>
> >
>
> > He’s gonna have to find a way to back-peddle on Brexit or he’ll go down in history as the biggest lame duck since, er, Theresa May.
>
>
>
> He will probably go the no deal route, then ask for GE hoping his legendary skills (in his mind) will see the Tories somehow get a majority for no deal, and who gives a crap if no deal is bad for the country (I suspect he thinks that, even if Baker and the true believers do not). He probably won't get it and Brexit will eb cancelled eventually.
>
>
>
> Ever since the Brexit Party came on the scene there was only one option for the next Tory leader, and that was no deal support.
>
> Yes. The Brexit Party has toxified any further negotiations with the EU as far as the Tories are concerned; for them No Deal is now the only game in town. I suspect Boris will just hope that a combination of his buccaneering rhetoric, Corbyn and a hefty slice of luck will see him through.
>
> He’s deluded
>
> I think those two words were perfectly adequate by themselves, Cyclefree!
>
> I am reading Richard Davenport-Hines’s book on the Cambridge spies and, by pure coincidence, I read these words this morning:
>
> “Popularity was the chief ambition of boys at any boarding school. To achieve this, so Cyril Connolly argued in his memoir of Eton, they needed nonchalance, charm, fortitude and moral cowardice, and to hide their intelligence “as a good tailor hides a paunch or a bump”. Deceptive powers were requisite for popularity.”
>
> Plus ca change......
Deception, or at least dissembling, is key to successful social interaction. If we wear our intentions on our sleeves, we will systematically be taken advantage of by those so inclined.
For a less high-brow target, just look at the survivor series on TV. The winners always have to hide their abilities and intentions.
> https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1130906010258944007
The tweet should really start with a ‘Yes’ since Boris was happy cheering May along (and indeed led the toast at Chequers) until he saw Davis going for the door.
> All in a single Tweet? He's a politician, not Mary Poppins.
--------------
I considered in context of his historical remarks, as I said. He could have said in a tweet 'and i have a plan on how to do that', whether or not his plan was good. Again, I fail to see the problem in considering his remarks in context, nor in his attitude as being like that of a baby throwing a tantrum, since that is what he is acting like. He is not alone in that, leave or remain.
Pick a politician, any one at random, and consider if them saying something like 'we must do better on Y' despite a history of vapidity and uselessness on the subject, and tell me that we cannot criticise them because that single statement is unobjectionable, so long as you ignore everything else we know about them.
> Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
>
> AJP Taylor?
He was my first thought - but I am not so sure he was a fan of Leninist communism.
> > @dixiedean said:
> > The question now must arise. Why did the Cabinet sign off on this? Did none of them say this is madness? Have they given up arguing? Or are they just bad at politics?
>
> I cannot understand this Cabinet. They often leak they are angry, at loggerheads with one another, or even that Mays' plans are terrible, yet they stick around. It cannot do their own job prospects any good, yet if they have been convinced that no deal is indeed bad why are they not more bullish indefending these actions? It does their careers no good to stick around if they do not really back it, but it does the country no good to half back these actions but mope about half heartedly.
I wonder if most of them are merely hanging on in the hope that the new leader will keep them on.
In a "we stuck through all this crap, so you can be sure we won't walk out on you in a strop" kinda way.
> Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
>
> AJP Taylor?
A man with a fabulous turn of phrase.
Sadly, his grasp of the English language was sometimes better than his grasp of - ummm - history.
(The Origins of the Second World War is a terrific read.)
> Random aside - I've just been asked by a yougn relative who has a project for the names of at least two historians with a positive view of Lenin. I think I must be an unreconstructed fascist, as I could think of a good handful of historians of russia, and I don't think a single one was positive on Lenin, but surely he must have more defenders than Stalin?
>
> AJP Taylor?
Stalin killed most of the others.
I presumed almost every young historian had somehow managed to have a good view about Lenin. He's the best of the bunch associated with the left.
The 2014 EU establishment was very much the old federalist style grouping. The 2019 version is likely to be more abrasive, polarised and have a bigger group of members pushing a eurosceptic message.
I think there are probably a sizeable number of UK remainers who voted that way out of fear, rather than affection for the EU.
There is little advocacy and seems to be very little appetite for a Macron/Verhofstadt style vision, so if we are in their parliament, we are probably best represented by those who do not want further expansion or integration and who will firmly hold the line as a bare minimum.
I suspect half hearted but fearful remainers probably add at least 20% to the 50% who are Leavers and that real fondness for the EU is very much a minority pastime.