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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    So the final sacrifice has been made. May will throw herself to the lions to get the WA passed but will it? The Conservatives might rally round but they need every vote to go up against the DUP and the Opposition parties.

    This is the final card she has to play but there are two questions in my mind:

    1) Has the WA changed enough to allow Bercow to even call the vote?
    2) IF it fails what then?

    3) if the MV3 passes, do the DUP follow through on their promise to vote against the government in a vote of confidence?

    Remember that MV3 doesn’t ratify the Treaty, there’s a whole new Bill that needs to pass in order to do that.
    I don't think they would VoNC the government. No Deal Brexit would be terrible for Northern Ireland - and they would suffer hugely at the polls if they created a recession there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Labour is a real "Mother knows best" party..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Omnium said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Have I ever mentioned I tipped Hunt, Lidington, and Hancock at 100/1?
    A firm of solicitors has never held office.
    Lloyd George, Roberts and Co. says hello.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    IanB2 said:

    I don't see how there's any chance of an MV4. The EU have publicly strained to say they are no longer involved in any new negotiations for the WA, so no one would be able to say that there would be substantive changes to the deal again, before May 22.

    I take the point, but if MV3 doesn't pass then it's no deal (which May has essentially ruled out) or long extension, and if May falls only a bit short on MV3 do you think she's honestly going to give it up in a long extension period?
    Given how well the debate is going, May would be best advised to hold back on another MV to see what transpires subsequently. Putting it again Friday seems to be government desperate to be seen to be doing *something* rather than just let parliament run off with the ball. But losing again will do her no good.
    Why let Parliament run with the ball if they can finish the game off here and now?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Ah yes, that too.

    I live far enough south that we don’t need to change the clocks, but in Northern Europe it’s silly to try and keep one time all year round as the day just gets too short in winter and too long in summer.

    Personally I’d be happy to see summer time all year round, because there’s a huge difference between a midweek football match finishing at my 12:45am, and finishing at my 1:45am as they do at the moment!
    I think it’s simply astonishing the EU are trying to force an EU-wide decision on it under the aegis of the single market.

    It should absolutely be a national decision.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    edited March 2019
    Esther McVey value at over 100/1 for next Tory leader?

    Edit: spoke too soon, looks to be all gone on betfair.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    The car stuff is coming anyway (as we admit, because we have voluntarily signed up to it), we can hardly talk about internet-themed idiocy give our home grown law that we must give highly sensitive personal information to a load of pornographers if we want to enjoy a bit of niche video viewing ("show me your credit card to prove that you trust me"), and permanent BST is such a good idea that I'll take it from anyone, Hun or not.
    And what happens when you have to take a decision on the chin you don’t agree with, or like, that really matters to you?
    First, that's rather a change of tack, and secondly the answer is, there's fuck all I can do about it. Just like decisions I don't like which are made in Westminster.
  • TheAncientMarinerTheAncientMariner Posts: 227
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    By the way, personal thanks for inspiring me to send off for some EU flags; they arrived today in the post. Very nice they will look hanging from my balcony when we remain, or rejoin.
    It's a solid flag, bold colours, simple and memorable
    Unlike the EU!

    (We won't rejoin - unless something remarkable happens as we would have to negotiate terms of re-entry: no rebate, commitment to join the Euro, fishing rights etc etc. The EU will keep on with their 'ever closer union', until the internal pressures from nationalism over-ride the external pressures of unionisation.)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    Zeichner for revocation. Colour me shocked

    He's only representing his constituents.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    He's so utterly self-absorbed, I don't think he is even capable of understanding how morally bankrupt he appears. I was at an event recently where somebody asked him if he had any regrets about the last few years. In utter seriousness, he replied that he regretted pulling out of the leadership contest.
    Did anyone make any cracks about that being the only timely withdrawal he had ever made?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I don't see how there's any chance of an MV4. The EU have publicly strained to say they are no longer involved in any new negotiations for the WA, so no one would be able to say that there would be substantive changes to the deal again, before May 22.

    I take the point, but if MV3 doesn't pass then it's no deal (which May has essentially ruled out) or long extension, and if May falls only a bit short on MV3 do you think she's honestly going to give it up in a long extension period?
    In that scenario I think we'd be up to the EU's logic. So far as I understand it they've ruled out any longer extension unless there's some sort of reason beyond MV4.
    We already have the 12 April extension. If May's deal fails by say half a dozen votes on Friday then she'd call MV4 for next week and once its ratified the European Council would vote to ratify the 22 May extension even though we were technically late.

    But I'm convinced that right or wrong the deal goes through on Friday. And I said earlier this week the vote should be held on Friday, the optics of holding out if everyone else is backing it and rejecting Brexit on what was meant to be Brexit day will be awful. Too much momentum now, all Brexiteers are going to back the deal - and if so then Grieve and co should lose the whip if they're the only hold outs.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    stjohn said:

    Can the Tory MPs collectively organise themselves well enough to keep an ERG-er type from reaching the final two in the leadership ballot? Anyone know the maths well enough?

    Probably an ERG'er but not a Leaver. Boris and Raab aren't in the ERG for example...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    The car stuff is coming anyway (as we admit, because we have voluntarily signed up to it), we can hardly talk about internet-themed idiocy give our home grown law that we must give highly sensitive personal information to a load of pornographers if we want to enjoy a bit of niche video viewing ("show me your credit card to prove that you trust me"), and permanent BST is such a good idea that I'll take it from anyone, Hun or not.
    And what happens when you have to take a decision on the chin you don’t agree with, or like, that really matters to you?
    First, that's rather a change of tack, and secondly the answer is, there's fuck all I can do about it. Just like decisions I don't like which are made in Westminster.
    That’s rather fatalistic.

    You can vote out the MPs and I’d expect you to do so. They respond to public pressure.

    Hands up how many of us were aware the EU were even consulting on clock changes, yet alone fed into it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    AndyJS said:
    I made a serious tactical error in moving to Cannock. I should have lived in Lichfield so I have a chance to join the Tories there and deselect this useless tosser.

    It's fearfully tempting to campaign for the Liberal Democrats there if there is an election this year.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Ah yes, that too.

    I live far enough south that we don’t need to change the clocks, but in Northern Europe it’s silly to try and keep one time all year round as the day just gets too short in winter and too long in summer.

    Personally I’d be happy to see summer time all year round, because there’s a huge difference between a midweek football match finishing at my 12:45am, and finishing at my 1:45am as they do at the moment!
    I think it’s simply astonishing the EU are trying to force an EU-wide decision on it under the aegis of the single market.

    It should absolutely be a national decision.
    It precisely mirrors how the US Supreme Court has used the interstate commerce clause to delve into matters that the Founders would have considered beyond their remit.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    of.
    By the way, personal thanks for inspiring me to send off for some EU flags; they arrived today in the post. Very nice they will look hanging from my balcony when we remain, or rejoin.
    The idea that I had any bearing or not on your decision to smother yourself in the traitor’s apron or not is and Jean-Claude Juncker by your bedside cabinet for nighttime me time.
    That's where you are wrong. I went online and searched for the flags immediately after our exchange about flags at the weekend. I wouldn't want to withhold credit where credit's due.
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    By the way, personal thanks for inspiring me to send off for some EU flags; they arrived today in the post. Very nice they will look hanging from my balcony when we remain, or rejoin.
    The idea that I had any bearing or not on your decision to smother yourself in the traitor’s apron or not is laughable.

    You probably already have a blue duvet cover with yellow stars sitting proudly on your bed and a “special” scrapbook of Guy Verhofstadht and Jean-Claude Juncker by your bedside cabinet for nighttime me time.
    That's where you are wrong. I went online and searched for the flags immediately after our exchange about flags at the weekend. I wouldn't want to withhold credit where credit's due.
    Bollocks. You’d already done it or were going to do it anyway.

    I just annoyed you, and you’re just trying to piss me off.
    Genuinely, no. You really did put the idea into my head.

    But you never know, they could now sit at the bottom of a drawer for quite some time.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    In California, we just voted in November to abolish winter time. Florida has also voted to do so. (However, the States are constitutionally prevented from changing their times. So it's all a bit of a mess.)

    Irrespective of the whole EU thing, I think being on BST year round makes a lot of sense. The only reason against it is that for a month or so - most of which is Christmas holidays - then children in Scotland would be going to school in the dark.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Parliament about to break for half an hour to do their paper ballots.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    RoyalBlue said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Ah yes, that too.

    I live far enough south that we don’t need to change the clocks, but in Northern Europe it’s silly to try and keep one time all year round as the day just gets too short in winter and too long in summer.

    Personally I’d be happy to see summer time all year round, because there’s a huge difference between a midweek football match finishing at my 12:45am, and finishing at my 1:45am as they do at the moment!
    I think it’s simply astonishing the EU are trying to force an EU-wide decision on it under the aegis of the single market.

    It should absolutely be a national decision.
    It precisely mirrors how the US Supreme Court has used the interstate commerce clause to delve into matters that the Founders would have considered beyond their remit.
    Absolutely right. (Albeit, I would blame Congress and the President over the Supreme Court.)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.
    Since we are due to be out of the EU completely by 2020 we do not, in all likelihood have to make that choice.

    Edit. I suspect it will upset the Portuguese though. They experimented with this a few years ago and changed back because it was so disliked.
    So did we. But, they might not get to make that changeback choice again.

    Imperial overreach really doesn’t cut it; there’s no principle of subsidiarity here.

    Do the EU not realise there must be limits to the bounds of the reach of their tentacles and measures to reverse them?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019

    I don't see how there's any chance of an MV4. The EU have publicly strained to say they are no longer involved in any new negotiations for the WA, so no one would be able to say that there would be substantive changes to the deal again, before May 22.

    I take the point, but if MV3 doesn't pass then it's no deal (which May has essentially ruled out) or long extension, and if May falls only a bit short on MV3 do you think she's honestly going to give it up in a long extension period?
    In that scenario I think we'd be up to the EU's logic. So far as I understand it they've ruled out any longer extension unless there's some sort of reason beyond MV4.
    We already have the 12 April extension. If May's deal fails by say half a dozen votes on Friday then she'd call MV4 for next week and once its ratified the European Council would vote to ratify the 22 May extension even though we were technically late.

    But I'm convinced that right or wrong the deal goes through on Friday. And I said earlier this week the vote should be held on Friday, the optics of holding out if everyone else is backing it and rejecting Brexit on what was meant to be Brexit day will be awful. Too much momentum now, all Brexiteers are going to back the deal - and if so then Grieve and co should lose the whip if they're the only hold outs.
    For this week I think every now hinges on the DUP. If they moved, it could convince the remaining ERG holdouts to just about push it through. Interesting that they've stayed quiet so far, after the 6 o'clock deadline that they said.

    How could she get through an MV4, though ? Even if if the Tories somehow got rid of Bercow in the meantime, there'd be obvious objections from many quarters facing a new speaker than on MV3.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
  • OT, but apparently Labour have put out the ad to recruit their new Head of Complaints today, with a 3 day window for applications.

    Wonder if I can put a bet on the candidate who gets selected?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited March 2019
    Escape while you can.

    If the deal goes through you have 18 months to get out before the end of the transition .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Ooh they aren't going to run through the voting lobbies 8 times
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,808
    ydoethur said:

    He's so utterly self-absorbed, I don't think he is even capable of understanding how morally bankrupt he appears. I was at an event recently where somebody asked him if he had any regrets about the last few years. In utter seriousness, he replied that he regretted pulling out of the leadership contest.
    Did anyone make any cracks about that being the only timely withdrawal he had ever made?
    Ha, I wish I had.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    This sounds like potentially good (and ironic) news:

    ' BMW is said to be looking at transferring more car production to the UK in light of booming demand for the X1 SUV, among other models – and it is considering taking over the Honda plant in Swindon, according to Autocar sources.

    The Honda factory is currently scheduled to close in 2021 when production of the Civic ends, but sources understand BMW is in discussions to take on the site after that date. BMW sources have refused to comment.

    There are a number of reasons that BMW is said to be looking closely at expanding its operation in the UK, including the highly integrated production system already in place here.

    BMW builds Minis, which are based on the UKL1 transverse-engine platform, at Oxford, using engines from its Hams Hall plant near Birmingham and body panels from its pressing plant near Swindon.
    '

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/bmw-interested-buying-honda-swindon-factory
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited March 2019

    OT, but apparently Labour have put out the ad to recruit their new Head of Complaints today, with a 3 day window for applications.

    Wonder if I can put a bet on the candidate who gets selected?

    They have to fill in Form B to get appointed?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Ah yes, that too.

    I live far enough south that we don’t need to change the clocks, but in Northern Europe it’s silly to try and keep one time all year round as the day just gets too short in winter and too long in summer.

    Personally I’d be happy to see summer time all year round, because there’s a huge difference between a midweek football match finishing at my 12:45am, and finishing at my 1:45am as they do at the moment!
    I think it’s simply astonishing the EU are trying to force an EU-wide decision on it under the aegis of the single market.

    It should absolutely be a national decision.
    It's almost like that promise of subsidiarity the EU and their apologists banged on about for decades turned out to be utter bollocks.

    Again, it comes back to the reason why so many voted to leave. The EU can't be trusted not to grab more and more powers for itself. The idea that a vote to "remain" was a vote for the status quo was the biggest lie of the campaign.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    In California, we just voted in November to abolish winter time. Florida has also voted to do so. (However, the States are constitutionally prevented from changing their times. So it's all a bit of a mess.)

    Irrespective of the whole EU thing, I think being on BST year round makes a lot of sense. The only reason against it is that for a month or so - most of which is Christmas holidays - then children in Scotland would be going to school in the dark.)
    How come Arizona has summer time in part of the state but not the rest?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The Tories are screwed.

    Farage and the rest will be crying betrayal and will hurt them more than Labour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
    Lock the doors, and set fire to the House !
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
    What's "it"?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    In California, we just voted in November to abolish winter time. Florida has also voted to do so. (However, the States are constitutionally prevented from changing their times. So it's all a bit of a mess.)

    Irrespective of the whole EU thing, I think being on BST year round makes a lot of sense. The only reason against it is that for a month or so - most of which is Christmas holidays - then children in Scotland would be going to school in the dark.)
    The merits of the clock debate are beside the point, for me.

    I think it should be a national decision that we decide on in the UK, and see no reason whatsoever why it should be imposed upon us by the EU.

    The examples you give are interesting ones because it shows how states in the USA in some areas have more freedom and latitude that member states of the EU.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    GIN1138 said:

    stjohn said:

    Can the Tory MPs collectively organise themselves well enough to keep an ERG-er type from reaching the final two in the leadership ballot? Anyone know the maths well enough?

    Probably an ERG'er but not a Leaver. Boris and Raab aren't in the ERG for example...
    I wouldn't describe either Boris or Raab as Leavers.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    nico67 said:

    Escape while you can.

    If the deal goes through you have 18 months to get out before the end of the transition .

    Where to?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
    What's "it"?
    The Withdrawal Agreement. That's doubly embarrassing as I have just smeared much red ink all over Year 10's books where they start answers with the word 'It's...'
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    nico67 said:

    The Tories are screwed.

    Farage and the rest will be crying betrayal and will hurt them more than Labour.

    Your desperation is palpable.

    Brexit weariness is at such a level now most will just be glad its done with. Most Leavers will just be glad to have left.

    Farage was always going to cry betrayal no matter what and quite frankly if he didn't I'd have been concerned.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Scandalous ! Boris has always had the country's best interests at heart, as I'm sure we all know. Were it not for all this messy business of politics, he'd probably be living the life of a medieval hermit right now, contemplating the mysteries of the universe.
    Metternich on Talleyrand's death: "I wonder what he meant by that?"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    I'd like permanent summer time !
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    GIN1138 said:

    stjohn said:

    Can the Tory MPs collectively organise themselves well enough to keep an ERG-er type from reaching the final two in the leadership ballot? Anyone know the maths well enough?

    Probably an ERG'er but not a Leaver. Boris and Raab aren't in the ERG for example...
    I wouldn't describe either Boris or Raab as Leavers.
    If you're stuck, I can think of lots of good words for them. The problem is OGH disapproves of most of them and I have no wish for the ban hammer.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
    What's "it"?
    The Withdrawal Agreement. That's doubly embarrassing as I have just smeared much red ink all over Year 10's books where they start answers with the word 'It's...'
    If the Lords votes down the WAIB they'd be risking no deal. Not going to happen.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    of.
    By the way, personal thanks for inspiring me to send off for some EU flags; they arrived today in the post. Very nice they will look hanging from my balcony when we remain, or rejoin.
    The idea that I had any bearing or not on your decision to smother yourself in the traitor’s apron or not is and Jean-Claude Juncker by your bedside cabinet for nighttime me time.
    That's where you are wrong. I went online and searched for the flags immediately after our exchange about flags at the weekend. I wouldn't want to withhold credit where credit's due.
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    or rejoin.
    time.
    That's where you are wrong. I went online and searched for the flags immediately after our exchange about flags at the weekend. I wouldn't want to withhold credit where credit's due.
    Bollocks. You’d already done it or were going to do it anyway.

    I just annoyed you, and you’re just trying to piss me off.
    Genuinely, no. You really did put the idea into my head.

    But you never know, they could now sit at the bottom of a drawer for quite some time.
    I just went online and ordered two royal standards and ten union jacks. That was down to you for inspiring me as to how much I love my own country and don’t like being dictated to.

    My house will look like Pall Mall, and it will be glorious.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Pulpstar said:

    I'd like permanent summer time !

    Every teacher dreams of it...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    edited March 2019
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    In California, we just voted in November to abolish winter time. Florida has also voted to do so. (However, the States are constitutionally prevented from changing their times. So it's all a bit of a mess.)

    Irrespective of the whole EU thing, I think being on BST year round makes a lot of sense. The only reason against it is that for a month or so - most of which is Christmas holidays - then children in Scotland would be going to school in the dark.)
    How come Arizona has summer time in part of the state but not the rest?
    Thirteen US states are in two different time zones.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/states-split-into-two-time-zones-4072169

    And this had an effect in the 2000 Florida voting confusion.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Pulpstar said:

    I'd like permanent summer time !

    I'd like permanent summer
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Have I ever mentioned I tipped Hunt, Lidington, and Hancock at 100/1?
    A firm of solicitors has never held office.
    Lloyd George, Roberts and Co. says hello.
    Ah so that's the firm you've been using for the work on the accidental scrambling of your name. Have you considered that the ostensible partners haven't been seen since the 1920s? I realise that there's precedent in slow progress, but Jarndice aside you may want to consider the state of affairs. I realise this may be unwelcome news, but you may die before the wise posts you've made on PB are correctly attributed to yourself.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Brexit has killed the union. Scotland will be reunited with Europe.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1110842549051293696

    A vote for eternal darkness*

    (* at least for leaving for work and going home in the dark)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
    What's "it"?
    The Withdrawal Agreement. That's doubly embarrassing as I have just smeared much red ink all over Year 10's books where they start answers with the word 'It's...'
    As I recall the motion that requires the MV gives the Lords a debate but not the opportunity (or requirement) to approve or otherwise.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,725

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    In California, we just voted in November to abolish winter time. Florida has also voted to do so. (However, the States are constitutionally prevented from changing their times. So it's all a bit of a mess.)

    Irrespective of the whole EU thing, I think being on BST year round makes a lot of sense. The only reason against it is that for a month or so - most of which is Christmas holidays - then children in Scotland would be going to school in the dark.)
    The merits of the clock debate are beside the point, for me.

    I think it should be a national decision that we decide on in the UK, and see no reason whatsoever why it should be imposed upon us by the EU.

    The examples you give are interesting ones because it shows how states in the USA in some areas have more freedom and latitude that member states of the EU.
    I knew it! You’d prefer a United States of Europe!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502
    kyf_100 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Ah yes, that too.

    I live far enough south that we don’t need to change the clocks, but in Northern Europe it’s silly to try and keep one time all year round as the day just gets too short in winter and too long in summer.

    Personally I’d be happy to see summer time all year round, because there’s a huge difference between a midweek football match finishing at my 12:45am, and finishing at my 1:45am as they do at the moment!
    I think it’s simply astonishing the EU are trying to force an EU-wide decision on it under the aegis of the single market.

    It should absolutely be a national decision.
    It's almost like that promise of subsidiarity the EU and their apologists banged on about for decades turned out to be utter bollocks.

    Again, it comes back to the reason why so many voted to leave. The EU can't be trusted not to grab more and more powers for itself. The idea that a vote to "remain" was a vote for the status quo was the biggest lie of the campaign.
    Yes. It’s also a frame of mind.

    Some member states looking to make a *national* regulatory change now lobby to make it at an EU level instead to level their playing field and broaden out the scope.

    That’s just not how we think.
  • If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    The car stuff is coming anyway (as we admit, because we have voluntarily signed up to it), we can hardly talk about internet-themed idiocy give our home grown law that we must give highly sensitive personal information to a load of pornographers if we want to enjoy a bit of niche video viewing ("show me your credit card to prove that you trust me"), and permanent BST is such a good idea that I'll take it from anyone, Hun or not.
    I don't think people want to be nannied in this way. No speed controls in cars.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Have I ever mentioned I tipped Hunt, Lidington, and Hancock at 100/1?
    A firm of solicitors has never held office.
    Lloyd George, Roberts and Co. says hello.
    Ah so that's the firm you've been using for the work on the accidental scrambling of your name. Have you considered that the ostensible partners haven't been seen since the 1920s? I realise that there's precedent in slow progress, but Jarndice aside you may want to consider the state of affairs. I realise this may be unwelcome news, but you may die before the wise posts you've made on PB are correctly attributed to yourself.
    I must have been busy today, because that makes no sense at all and I haven't touched a drop of alcohol (unless somebody's been monkeying with my tap).

    Would you mind explaining?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    They still send out people to find the new moon!
    https://www.thenational.ae/uae/government/uae-moon-sighting-committee-for-eid-al-fitr-formed-1.739290
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502
    Pulpstar said:

    I'd like permanent summer time !

    We want what we can’t have - more daylight in Winter time, particularly in December and January.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47717397 seems very cheap compared to central London in all honesty
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    In California, we just voted in November to abolish winter time. Florida has also voted to do so. (However, the States are constitutionally prevented from changing their times. So it's all a bit of a mess.)

    Irrespective of the whole EU thing, I think being on BST year round makes a lot of sense. The only reason against it is that for a month or so - most of which is Christmas holidays - then children in Scotland would be going to school in the dark.)
    How come Arizona has summer time in part of the state but not the rest?
    Thirteen US states are in two different time zones.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/states-split-into-two-time-zones-4072169

    And this had an effect in the 2000 Florida voting confusion.
    Interesting, but doesn't answer the question about summer time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    Surely you haven't just advocated one-party rule backed by the world's second largest army in the EU?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724
    AndyJS said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    The car stuff is coming anyway (as we admit, because we have voluntarily signed up to it), we can hardly talk about internet-themed idiocy give our home grown law that we must give highly sensitive personal information to a load of pornographers if we want to enjoy a bit of niche video viewing ("show me your credit card to prove that you trust me"), and permanent BST is such a good idea that I'll take it from anyone, Hun or not.
    I don't think people want to be nannied in this way. No speed controls in cars.
    People don't want to be nannied in this way, but:
    *) The 'people' routinely speed, and according to some, speed is a major factor in many road deaths.
    *) Such systems are becoming technologically and economically feasible (though I have some doubts).
    *) As cars become increasingly automated, the driving experience is going to change. This is just one step on that road.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    of.
    By the way, personal thanks for inspiring me to send off for some EU flags; they arrived today in the post. Very nice they will look hanging from my balcony when we remain, or rejoin.
    The idea that I had any bearing or not on your decision to smother yourself in the traitor’s apron or not is and Jean-Claude Juncker by your bedside cabinet for nighttime me time.
    That's where you are wrong. I went online and searched for the flags immediately after our exchange about flags at the weekend. I wouldn't want to withhold credit where credit's due.
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    or rejoin.
    time.
    That's where you are wrong. I went online and searched for the flags immediately after our exchange about flags at the weekend. I wouldn't want to withhold credit where credit's due.
    Bollocks. You’d already done it or were going to do it anyway.

    I just annoyed you, and you’re just trying to piss me off.
    Genuinely, no. You really did put the idea into my head.

    But you never know, they could now sit at the bottom of a drawer for quite some time.
    I just went online and ordered two royal standards and ten union jacks. That was down to you for inspiring me as to how much I love my own country and don’t like being dictated to.

    My house will look like Pall Mall, and it will be glorious.
    Excellent. I will ask Thornberry to come round and take a photo.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
    What's "it"?
    The Withdrawal Agreement. That's doubly embarrassing as I have just smeared much red ink all over Year 10's books where they start answers with the word 'It's...'
    As I recall the motion that requires the MV gives the Lords a debate but not the opportunity (or requirement) to approve or otherwise.
    Thanks.
  • ydoethur said:

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    Surely you haven't just advocated one-party rule backed by the world's second largest army in the EU?
    A directly elected dictator would sort this all out.

    Governor and President for Life of the EU is a role I could do.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47717397 seems very cheap compared to central London in all honesty

    £2000/sq foot
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
    What's "it"?
    The Withdrawal Agreement. That's doubly embarrassing as I have just smeared much red ink all over Year 10's books where they start answers with the word 'It's...'
    If the Lords votes down the WAIB they'd be risking no deal. Not going to happen.
    They don't get a vote. The best they can do, I believe, is make suggestions.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    Yes that's a load of crap. Personally I hope we keep daylight savings time. GMT suits us in the winter and BST suits us in the summer.

    The less northerly a nation the less of a reason there is for daylight savings, so of course it makes sense that Germany is different to the UK or Scandinavia. American can cope with some states having daylight savings and others not, this is the sort of total BS that should be decided by nations and has nothing to do with CE marks or anything else the EU should be getting involved in.
    If it were up to me, I'd add half an hour to both GMT and BST and I'd put the clocks forward on the first Sunday in March rather than the last.
    can we fix easter while we're at it? first sunday in april perhaps.
    Easter’s easy, the dates are fixed years in advance.

    Try living in a Muslim country, where they need to actually see the new moon to confirm the date - which leads to people finding out at 9pm or thereabouts whether the holiday is on the next day or the day after...
    Eh ? The lunar cycles don't change much !
    The weather can.

    I'm more interested in the loony cycles going on in the Commons right now.

    Has anyone worked out what happens if the Commons comes to its senses and the Lords vote it down? Or does it only have to pass one house?
    What's "it"?
    The Withdrawal Agreement. That's doubly embarrassing as I have just smeared much red ink all over Year 10's books where they start answers with the word 'It's...'
    As I recall the motion that requires the MV gives the Lords a debate but not the opportunity (or requirement) to approve or otherwise.
    But the MV doesn’t ratify the Treaty.

    There’s a full Act of Parliament to follow, which is what ratifies the Treaty. Plenty of scope for wrecking amendments and filibusters in both Houses.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Just going on 5Live
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    If you'd been to China you wouldn't say that, it's completely stupid in some parts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    People don't want to be nannied in this way, but:
    *) The 'people' routinely speed, and according to some, speed is a major factor in many road deaths.
    *) Such systems are becoming technologically and economically feasible (though I have some doubts).
    *) As cars become increasingly automated, the driving experience is going to change. This is just one step on that road.

    I think this will probably happen in the end not through government action but because insurers will insist on it.

    Not that it would have made much difference to the idiot in Bridgetown who (1) parked in the middle of the road (2) undertook me and cut in as I was approaching a roundabout and (3) was so busy texting he forgot to note the traffic was moving again.
  • Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Have I ever mentioned I tipped Hunt, Lidington, and Hancock at 100/1?
    A firm of solicitors has never held office.
    Lloyd George, Roberts and Co. says hello.
    Ah so that's the firm you've been using for the work on the accidental scrambling of your name. Have you considered that the ostensible partners haven't been seen since the 1920s? I realise that there's precedent in slow progress, but Jarndice aside you may want to consider the state of affairs. I realise this may be unwelcome news, but you may die before the wise posts you've made on PB are correctly attributed to yourself.
    I must have been busy today, because that makes no sense at all and I haven't touched a drop of alcohol (unless somebody's been monkeying with my tap).

    Would you mind explaining?
    Sorry. Just nonsense. However as an explanation - you have an unpronouncable PB moniker. One might imagine that you'd had your real name stolen and rearranged. Thus you might need a lawyer. Jarndice vs Janrdice is the fictional worlds most famous lawyerly thing. My theme was of course influenced by Kafka.


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    MaxPB said:

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    If you'd been to China you wouldn't say that, it's completely stupid in some parts.
    All that Jinping about between time zones is tiresome though.

    If we keep GMT (i.e. this funny thing called real time) and the EU impose a different time zone, won't that create a hard border in Ireland?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    So far Lucy Allan, Boris Johnson, John Whittingdale, Charles Elphicke have switched to support the WA. Any others?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502

    Just going on 5Live

    Knock ‘em dead.
  • MaxPB said:

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    If you'd been to China you wouldn't say that, it's completely stupid in some parts.
    I’ve been a few times.

    But not to the extremes of the time zones.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    The final holdouts
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    When they need to rebel against the ERG's own whip they truly have reached the end of the road.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,502

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    How many time zones does the US and Canada have?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186
    Given the DUP and about 20 Tory MPs are still refusing to back the Deal and the Deal still does not have at least 20 Labour MPs backing it has May just made a unicorn resignation proposal?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    The final holdouts
    I think that is probably Anne Marie Morris
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    Truly the world's biggest useful idiots. I really hope we start expelling these c***s from the party if they vote against MV3. Ideally the vote gets through without them and we have our reckoning with them.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1110983170797813761

    Shes' still going to struggle it seems.
  • IanB2 said:

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    When they need to rebel against the ERG's own whip they truly have reached the end of the road.
    Commentator on Beeb claiming TMay still 25-30 short, even with a rump of ERG switchers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    dr_spyn said:
    Have I ever mentioned I tipped Hunt, Lidington, and Hancock at 100/1?
    A firm of solicitors has never held office.
    Lloyd George, Roberts and Co. says hello.
    Ah so that's the firm you've been using for the work on the accidental scrambling of your name. Have you considered that the ostensible partners haven't been seen since the 1920s? I realise that there's precedent in slow progress, but Jarndice aside you may want to consider the state of affairs. I realise this may be unwelcome news, but you may die before the wise posts you've made on PB are correctly attributed to yourself.
    I must have been busy today, because that makes no sense at all and I haven't touched a drop of alcohol (unless somebody's been monkeying with my tap).

    Would you mind explaining?
    Sorry. Just nonsense. However as an explanation - you have an unpronouncable PB moniker. One might imagine that you'd had your real name stolen and rearranged. Thus you might need a lawyer. Jarndice vs Janrdice is the fictional worlds most famous lawyerly thing. My theme was of course influenced by Kafka.
    Right. OK. That sort of makes sense.

    The only thing I would say is that my moniker is nothing to do with my name, and is in fact a real phrase spelled phonetically.

    I will admit it is a real phrase spelled phonetically in Welsh, but that doesn't make it unpronounceable.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    If you'd been to China you wouldn't say that, it's completely stupid in some parts.
    I’ve been a few times.

    But not to the extremes of the time zones.
    I have and it's completely crap. Daylight at really odd times.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    OGH on 5Live now
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,724

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    Whilst I want the deal to go through, I've slightly more time for the MPs who remain solidly against the deal than the ones who are changing their views on an unchanged deal.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    MaxPB said:

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    If you'd been to China you wouldn't say that, it's completely stupid in some parts.
    All that Jinping about between time zones is tiresome though.

    If we keep GMT (i.e. this funny thing called real time) and the EU impose a different time zone, won't that create a hard border in Ireland?
    GMT is real time on (and only on) the Greenwich meridian; so for instance in real real time, 9 pm at Greenwich is 9.05 in Oxford.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    I don't even think there was a market on it, but did anyone have money on Corbyn seeing off two Con PMs?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,186

    ydoethur said:

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    Surely you haven't just advocated one-party rule backed by the world's second largest army in the EU?
    A directly elected dictator would sort this all out.

    Governor and President for Life of the EU is a role I could do.
    Of course if you are a dictator you have about a 50 50 chance of eventually being shot, hanged or taking suicide come the revolution or foreign invasion but that is the price of absolute power
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    IanB2 said:

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    When they need to rebel against the ERG's own whip they truly have reached the end of the road.
    Commentator on Beeb claiming TMay still 25-30 short, even with a rump of ERG switchers.
    Time for spreadsheet Phil to get the pocketbook out and bribe Labour MPs.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, and as others have said, a load of bollocks from the EU in the last couple of days on internet content and car regulations, doing a good job of reminding a lot of people why they voted to leave in the first place.

    And, the European Parliament voted to ban either BST or GMT from 2022 this week, so we’ll have to decide which one we have to keep and the clocks won’t go back/forth anymore.

    Off the back of a public consultation of which 70% of the responses were from Germany, as I understand it, and I personally wasn’t even aware of.
    In California, we just voted in November to abolish winter time. Florida has also voted to do so. (However, the States are constitutionally prevented from changing their times. So it's all a bit of a mess.)

    Irrespective of the whole EU thing, I think being on BST year round makes a lot of sense. The only reason against it is that for a month or so - most of which is Christmas holidays - then children in Scotland would be going to school in the dark.)
    How come Arizona has summer time in part of the state but not the rest?
    The states aren't required to observe DST by the Uniform Time Act of 1966, but if they do they need to change on the dates mandated by it (as last amended in 2005). All of the state of Arizona does not observe DST, but part of the territory that is shown on maps as being in Arizona is in fact part of the Navajo Nation that does observe DST. (The Hopi Nation is entirely surrounded by the Navajo Nation and follows Arizona in not observing DST.)

    Most people, including most Americans, don't realize that the federally-recognized native nations are de jure and in most ways de facto quite independent of the states where they are located. An accurate political map of the US should show the native nations too. The only thing where their state location matters is federal representation. For instance the Navajo Nation extends across territory mapped to Arizona, Utah and New Mexico but its residents vote for Congress, Senate and President based on the conventional state borders.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    The final holdouts
    I think that is probably Anne Marie Morris
    I find her so fascinating.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvx3ng0n8sg
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    Drutt said:

    I don't even think there was a market on it, but did anyone have money on Corbyn seeing off two Con PMs?

    I still think when May goes, he'll go soon after.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,218

    MaxPB said:

    If China can cope with one time zone then so should the EU.

    If you'd been to China you wouldn't say that, it's completely stupid in some parts.
    I’ve been a few times.

    But not to the extremes of the time zones.
    It works fine on the east coast
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2019
    And what about Bercow ? There are still multiple obstacles in the way.

    One thing I do get the feeling on is that the DUP may have moved at least a bit, however.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Claire Ellicott
    @ClaireEllicott1
    Steve Baker storms out and says 'no comment' when asked about the deal. An angry-looking Mark Francois shouts 'no'

    They will never, ever, surrender.

    The final holdouts
    I think that is probably Anne Marie Morris
    Andrea Jenkyns will be the final holdout.

    Curses to David Herdson for getting her elected.
This discussion has been closed.