The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
I know it seems a bit of an outlandish suggestion, but is it possible that the TIGgers actually know what they are doing and have a coherent plan?
Pause.
Thinks.
Do you know, that's a bloody good question. Well done you. I have no idea...
Maybe it seems the giant majority commanded by Blair is now being seen as the only way to get the centre back in power. Moderate Tories and Blairite Labour joining forces. Possibly a sensible leader off of a giant majority.
I don't think Jess Phillips is a Blairite ... if she leaves too, that is. All I know is that to a lot of my left-wing friends she talks far more sense than Milne, McDonnell or Corbyn; they'd like either her or Thornberry to be in charge.
In 'the other place', can we now expect Lords Heseltine, Gummer and Patten to resign and sit as cross-benchers?
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Give it a rest you tedious man child.
A sign of losing the argument. They know full well what hypocrites TIG look like. It might appeal to their myopic base but there are no legitimate reasons to not hold a by-election if they wish to be taken seriously as politicians.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
I know it seems a bit of an outlandish suggestion, but is it possible that the TIGgers actually know what they are doing and have a coherent plan?
Pause.
Thinks.
Do you know, that's a bloody good question. Well done you. I have no idea...
Maybe it seems the giant majority commanded by Blair is now being seen as the only way to get the centre back in power. Moderate Tories and Blairite Labour joining forces. Possibly a sensible leader off of a giant majority.
I don't think Jess Phillips is a Blairite ... if she leaves too, that is. All I know is that to a lot of my left-wing friends she talks far more sense than Milne, McDonnell or Corbyn; they'd like either her or Thornberry to be in charge.
In 'the other place', can we now expect Lords Heseltine, Gummer and Patten to resign and sit as cross-benchers?
Disliking Corbyn and forming a centrist party is surely about as Blairite as its possible to be. Chuka Umanna has been planning this since 2010!
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Clearly you have your own agenda.
My agenda is that MPs work for the public. I guess your agenda is MPs work for only themselves.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Give it a rest you tedious man child.
So you have no answer to his point. I thought this bunch were all about second votes on things when the circumstances change.
Their aim is precisely to change the circumstances before doing so.
The circumstances have already changed. Wollaston and Soubry stood in 2017 explicitly on supporting Brexit. They have then voted against a Brexit Deal and now use that as an excuse to oppose Brexit entirely. I mean I know MPs are not the most honest of people but these two really are utter hypocrites.
Respect for Soubry, 'infiltrated by Blue Kip Right Wingers!' She has just realised after 30 years
The people who turn up to conservative association AGMs always are and always have been a bit like that. When Cameron introduced gay marriage a lot buggered off, and since some have come back.
They are antagonistic and forthright, but they do not participate in the running of associations. Conservative associations are not like constituency Labour Party groups. Policy is rarely discussed, motions are not passed. What’s different here is that Brexit has muddled the mind. And on this one issue there is little room for compromise.
The Conservative party is not a participatory party. MPs like Soubry will be getting grief on the streets of her constituency, not just in her association.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
If they all won by-elections I'd hold my hand up and say this was a credible party that might hold the balance of power. But it's easy to see why they look rather frit at this moment.
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
And we overlook the human angle at our peril. The risk for a lot of ambitious younger Labour MPs is now that they'll be a lot older by the time Labour recovers from this body blow.
Respect for Soubry, 'infiltrated by Blue Kip Right Wingers!' She has just realised after 30 years
The people who turn up to conservative association AGMs always are and always have been a bit like that. When Cameron introduced gay marriage a lot buggered off, and since some have come back.
They are antagonistic and forthright, but they do not participate in the running of associations. Conservative associations are not like constituency Labour Party groups. Policy is rarely discussed, motions are not passed. What’s different here is that Brexit has muddled the mind. And on this one issue there is little room for compromise.
The Conservative party is not a participatory party. MPs like Soubry will be getting grief on the streets of her constituency, not just in her association.
Once again, Cammo is to blame. He recognised the problem, but didn't have the staying power to deal with it.
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
If that is what the TIGgers wanted, maybe they should have remembered Corbyn is even older than Mike Gapes and just waited for him to step down.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
If they all won by-elections I'd hold my hand up and say this was a credible party that might hold the balance of power. But it's easy to see why they look rather frit at this moment.
Don't underestimate that they seem to be thrilling almost universally the entire metro-media luvvie set.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
If they all won by-elections I'd hold my hand up and say this was a credible party that might hold the balance of power. But it's easy to see why they look rather frit at this moment.
Don't underestimate that they seem to be thrilling almost universally the entire metro-media luvvie set.
It's Cleggasm II - with frilly Remain knickers.
No hard questions from the media, TIG are the party run by the media for the media. I'm certain they'll be making huge waves outside the M25 with their own unique brand of hypocrisy.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Give it a rest you tedious man child.
So you have no answer to his point. I thought this bunch were all about second votes on things when the circumstances change.
Their aim is precisely to change the circumstances before doing so.
The circumstances have already changed. Wollaston and Soubry stood in 2017 explicitly on supporting Brexit. They have then voted against a Brexit Deal and now use that as an excuse to oppose Brexit entirely. I mean I know MPs are not the most honest of people but these two really are utter hypocrites.
Surely by leaving the party they have resolved some of that problem Richard?
She is a very honest sensible and grown up person. This is the time to listen...
Brexit is fucked.
She is a hypocritical liar.
Clearly has you rattled, Richard.
Nah. I have been saying exactly this about both of them (Soubry and Wollaston) ever since the election. Compare and contrast with a man of integrity (one of the very few MPs I would apply that to) like Ken Clarke. Knows what he stood for, stood on that basis and was honest with his constituents and then has voted accordingly ever since. That is integrity and even though I disagree with him on the main issue I think it will be a sad day when he leaves Parliament.
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
And we overlook the human angle at our peril. The risk for a lot of ambitious younger Labour MPs is now that they'll be a lot older by the time Labour recovers from this body blow.
Which would explain why Tristram Hunt and Jamie Reed jumped ship and a few who stood down in 2017.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
If they all won by-elections I'd hold my hand up and say this was a credible party that might hold the balance of power. But it's easy to see why they look rather frit at this moment.
Don't underestimate that they seem to be thrilling almost universally the entire metro-media luvvie set.
It's Cleggasm II - with frilly Remain knickers.
No hard questions from the media, TIG are the party run by the media for the media. I'm certain they'll be making huge waves outside the M25 with their own unique brand of hypocrisy.
It's terrible news for Corbyn - which makes it difficult not to be at worst ambivalent about.
It's no threat to Brexit either - these ultras were never helping.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
If they all won by-elections I'd hold my hand up and say this was a credible party that might hold the balance of power. But it's easy to see why they look rather frit at this moment.
Don't underestimate that they seem to be thrilling almost universally the entire metro-media luvvie set.
It's Cleggasm II - with frilly Remain knickers.
No hard questions from the media, TIG are the party run by the media for the media. I'm certain they'll be making huge waves outside the M25 with their own unique brand of hypocrisy.
They'll shortly have an opportunity to test themselves in the Newport West by-election.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
If they all won by-elections I'd hold my hand up and say this was a credible party that might hold the balance of power. But it's easy to see why they look rather frit at this moment.
Don't underestimate that they seem to be thrilling almost universally the entire metro-media luvvie set.
It's Cleggasm II - with frilly Remain knickers.
No hard questions from the media, TIG are the party run by the media for the media. I'm certain they'll be making huge waves outside the M25 with their own unique brand of hypocrisy.
Wow. The media conspiracy paranoia bile spouts up after just two and a half days.
She is a very honest sensible and grown up person. This is the time to listen...
Brexit is fucked.
She is a hypocritical liar.
Clearly has you rattled, Richard.
Yep. As I said this week, we could be seeing the start of the death of Brexit.
If the betting websites are to be believed looks like quite the opposite. If the main opposition to Brexit within the Tory party leave then there is far less pressure on May for a 2nd referendum.
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
And we overlook the human angle at our peril. The risk for a lot of ambitious younger Labour MPs is now that they'll be a lot older by the time Labour recovers from this body blow.
Which would explain why Tristram Hunt and Jamie Reed jumped ship and a few who stood down in 2017.
And why I think Streeting will jump, despite what he is saying now. He's led the campaign against anti-semitism within Labour, and has just lost a load of his allies.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
If they all won by-elections I'd hold my hand up and say this was a credible party that might hold the balance of power. But it's easy to see why they look rather frit at this moment.
Don't underestimate that they seem to be thrilling almost universally the entire metro-media luvvie set.
It's Cleggasm II - with frilly Remain knickers.
No hard questions from the media, TIG are the party run by the media for the media. I'm certain they'll be making huge waves outside the M25 with their own unique brand of hypocrisy.
Wow. The media conspiracy paranoia bile spouts up after just two and a half days.
The Tiggers must be on to a winner.
Well yesterday the true believers were pushing a false narrative about the Tiggers using tax havens (because they don't understand how the internet works) and of course Israeli funding.
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Exactly, you have posters like Anazina trying to take them seriously, but outside the Europhile bubble their constituents will look at them as cowards who are taking hypocrisy to new levels if they dont force a by-election. They make Mark Reckless look dignified in comparison.
No responsible parliamentarian can resign their seat at a time when our country's future hangs in the balance. End of.
That's their excuse but let's be honest it's because they're lacking in integrity. If they cared about their country over their careers they could have left weeks or months ago.
Let's be honest, you would only be satisfied if they were to adopt tactics of deliberate self-sabotage.
If they all won by-elections I'd hold my hand up and say this was a credible party that might hold the balance of power. But it's easy to see why they look rather frit at this moment.
Don't underestimate that they seem to be thrilling almost universally the entire metro-media luvvie set.
It's Cleggasm II - with frilly Remain knickers.
No hard questions from the media, TIG are the party run by the media for the media. I'm certain they'll be making huge waves outside the M25 with their own unique brand of hypocrisy.
Wow. The media conspiracy paranoia bile spouts up after just two and a half days.
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
If that is what the TIGgers wanted, maybe they should have remembered Corbyn is even older than Mike Gapes and just waited for him to step down.
But look at the membership. Why would Labour's next leader be much different from the current one. As long as the far left retain a grip on Labour, the methods and attitudes that come with the far left will be tolerated within the party - and if it lasts long enough, will develop into the normal culture.
Problem for Tiggers is their voting records are public record
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
To be fair, she has stuck her neck out on welfare issues a few times over the years and gone against the party, and I feel like she's genuinely been changing her mind as she saw more of the "real world".
It's Soubry who'll be the issue, since she doesn't seem to have remotely changed her mind on anything, and has left behind a whole load of videos from Question Time and the like with her cheerleading for various Tory austerity policies.
Problem for Tiggers is their voting records are public record
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
Quite agree with this.
Same with Soubry.
These are unashamed flag wavers for austerity.
Agreed. The whole lot of them shaped the great austerity blag, bet the Evening Standard supports them. Is it terribly unfair to liken this to the day Rudolph Hess crash landed in Scotland while apologising for the role of his nation in the war?
The optics of all these intelligent women leaving parties full of braying shouty wankers isn't lost on me, and won't be on lots of female voters.
Yet they all refuse to call by elections and allow their constituents to have their say on their decision?
Give it a rest you tedious man child.
So you have no answer to his point. I thought this bunch were all about second votes on things when the circumstances change.
Their aim is precisely to change the circumstances before doing so.
The circumstances have already changed. Wollaston and Soubry stood in 2017 explicitly on supporting Brexit. They have then voted against a Brexit Deal and now use that as an excuse to oppose Brexit entirely. I mean I know MPs are not the most honest of people but these two really are utter hypocrites.
Surely by leaving the party they have resolved some of that problem Richard?
Nope. It is their constituents they should be answering to and serving not the party.
Problem for Tiggers is their voting records are public record
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
Quite agree with this.
Same with Soubry.
These are unashamed flag wavers for austerity.
Agreed. The whole lot of them shaped the great austerity blag, bet the Evening Standard supports them. Is it terribly unfair to liken this to the day Rudolph Hess crash landed in Scotland while apologising for the role of his nation in the war?
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
If that is what the TIGgers wanted, maybe they should have remembered Corbyn is even older than Mike Gapes and just waited for him to step down.
But look at the membership. Why would Labour's next leader be much different from the current one. As long as the far left retain a grip on Labour, the methods and attitudes that come with the far left will be tolerated within the party - and if it lasts long enough, will develop into the normal culture.
I do think it's fair to say that a lot of Corbyn's vote is personal rather than ideological. The reason he has not already stepped down from a job he clearly hates is that there is no obvious successor from his wing of the party.
Problem for Tiggers is their voting records are public record
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
Quite agree with this.
Same with Soubry.
These are unashamed flag wavers for austerity.
Agreed. The whole lot of them shaped the great austerity blag, bet the Evening Standard supports them. Is it terribly unfair to liken this to the day Rudolph Hess crash landed in Scotland while apologising for the role of his nation in the war?
Austerity seems to have been a fairly big success. Adult poverty down, child poverty down, pensioner poverty down, unemployment lowest since 1970, employment highest since same.
Problem for Tiggers is their voting records are public record
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
To be fair, she has stuck her neck out on welfare issues a few times over the years and gone against the party, and I feel like she's genuinely been changing her mind as she saw more of the "real world".
It's Soubry who'll be the issue, since she doesn't seem to have remotely changed her mind on anything, and has left behind a whole load of videos from Question Time and the like with her cheerleading for various Tory austerity policies.
Problem for Tiggers is their voting records are public record
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
Quite agree with this.
Same with Soubry.
These are unashamed flag wavers for austerity.
Agreed. The whole lot of them shaped the great austerity blag, bet the Evening Standard supports them. Is it terribly unfair to liken this to the day Rudolph Hess crash landed in Scotland while apologising for the role of his nation in the war?
We welcome you newbie Corbynites to the site.
This was meant from both sides. I voted Milliband, Burnham and Smith so question your assumption of Corbynism. Also i've been lurking and posting since 2010 so not quite a newbie
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
If that is what the TIGgers wanted, maybe they should have remembered Corbyn is even older than Mike Gapes and just waited for him to step down.
But look at the membership. Why would Labour's next leader be much different from the current one. As long as the far left retain a grip on Labour, the methods and attitudes that come with the far left will be tolerated within the party - and if it lasts long enough, will develop into the normal culture.
I do think it's fair to say that a lot of Corbyn's vote is personal rather than ideological. The reason he has not already stepped down from a job he clearly hates is that there is no obvious successor from his wing of the party.
Have you joined, yet, SO? Surely you must tell us that you have.
Problem for Tiggers is their voting records are public record
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
Quite agree with this.
Same with Soubry.
These are unashamed flag wavers for austerity.
Agreed. The whole lot of them shaped the great austerity blag, bet the Evening Standard supports them. Is it terribly unfair to liken this to the day Rudolph Hess crash landed in Scotland while apologising for the role of his nation in the war?
We welcome you newbie Corbynites to the site.
This was meant from both sides. I voted Milliband, Burnham and Smith so question your assumption of Corbynism. Also i've been lurking and posting since 2010 so not quite a newbie
Looking forward to your next post some time in mid-March?
There is also quite a significant chance that Tom Watson will lead a huge block of MPs out in due course.
Trying to put myself in Tom Watson's shoes I think I can see three potential futures.
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
If that is what the TIGgers wanted, maybe they should have remembered Corbyn is even older than Mike Gapes and just waited for him to step down.
But look at the membership. Why would Labour's next leader be much different from the current one. As long as the far left retain a grip on Labour, the methods and attitudes that come with the far left will be tolerated within the party - and if it lasts long enough, will develop into the normal culture.
I do think it's fair to say that a lot of Corbyn's vote is personal rather than ideological. The reason he has not already stepped down from a job he clearly hates is that there is no obvious successor from his wing of the party.
Have you joined, yet, SO? Surely you must tell us that you have.
Problem for Tiggers is their voting records are public record
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
To be fair, she has stuck her neck out on welfare issues a few times over the years and gone against the party, and I feel like she's genuinely been changing her mind as she saw more of the "real world".
It's Soubry who'll be the issue, since she doesn't seem to have remotely changed her mind on anything, and has left behind a whole load of videos from Question Time and the like with her cheerleading for various Tory austerity policies.
I think this is Westminster bubble stuff. I've no doubt that the Corbynite social media cheerleaders will happily tweet and share this stuff but will it cut through to the general public? I doubt it.
Besides, Corbyn is an antisemitic-tolerating friend of terrorists so the "you've done iffy things in the past" isn't a cost-free card to play.
Comments
Or perhaps just the golf club boorish manchilds ?
Much better than the Angela Smiths Mike Gapes Joan Ryans who offer nothing
This new grouping couldn't have found better recruits.
They're going to be quite a contrast to the Rees Moggs and George Galloways that the old parties seem to be embracing
In 'the other place', can we now expect Lords Heseltine, Gummer and Patten to resign and sit as cross-benchers?
Still can't decide whether TIG will be a flash in the pan or truly transform politics...
Brexit is fucked.
Or alternatively try paying a little more attention to who is posting what.
Cretin.
Has anyone else ever successfully re-ratted while an MP? (I can think of some who have subsequently, like Baroness Nicholson).
Or Trig as in Fools and Horses : "alwight Dave ?"
1. TIG emulates the SDP closely. It damages Labour, but not sufficiently to replace it, handing the Tories a landslide majority and at least another decade in government. However, the experience is chastening for Labour, which comes to its senses, puts its house in order and manages to bring moderate left politics back into government.
2. As for 1, but the Corbynites retain a death grip on the Labour Party. This prevents any revival on the Centre-Left indefinitely.
3. TIG manages to eclipse the Labour Party to present an alternative government to the Conservatives that is at least a hair's breadth less right-wing - but it is not one with close ties to the unions and this probably leads to the overall balance of politics shifting to the right.
Clearly Tom Watson would like to see some variation on 1 happen - albeit as quickly as possible, rather than taking 16 years from split to government. 2 is the nightmare scenario. The risk for Tom Watson is that his leading a chunk of MPs out of the party makes 2 more likely - by weakening the moderates within Labour - while 3 is still only an outside shot.
I think the more likely course is that Tom Watson continues to pursue 1, though perhaps with more vigour. Perhaps he would table a no confidence vote in Corbyn's leadership, arguing that he had failed to prevent anti-semitism from driving out Labour MPs. One last attempt to save the Party.
Heidi Allen has joined today.
Heidi sheds tears for the poor and disabled people, saying she’s “had enough”.
Heidi voted to cut benefits 16 times.
And she’s the one that’s had enough?
They are antagonistic and forthright, but they do not participate in the running of associations. Conservative associations are not like constituency Labour Party groups. Policy is rarely discussed, motions are not passed. What’s different here is that Brexit has muddled the mind. And on this one issue there is little room for compromise.
The Conservative party is not a participatory party. MPs like Soubry will be getting grief on the streets of her constituency, not just in her association.
https://twitter.com/PermaConfused/status/1098209290488369153
It's Cleggasm II - with frilly Remain knickers.
Same with Soubry.
These are unashamed flag wavers for austerity.
I will raise a toast when Soubry is kicked out.
- it would involve a GE campaign lasting 6 months.
- the Cons would not let TM fight it because they would have the time to replace her.
It's no threat to Brexit either - these ultras were never helping.
The Tiggers must be on to a winner.
It's Soubry who'll be the issue, since she doesn't seem to have remotely changed her mind on anything, and has left behind a whole load of videos from Question Time and the like with her cheerleading for various Tory austerity policies.
A rare example of the Lib Dems being right.
I don't think it's meant to though..
https://twitter.com/amirkingkhan/status/1098135153698689026
Besides, Corbyn is an antisemitic-tolerating friend of terrorists so the "you've done iffy things in the past" isn't a cost-free card to play.
Woolaston burning injustices is a good one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnkUt6EyR5I