The Tories need to have a proper leadership election and need to rethink their approach to Brexit. Quite fundamentally in my view.
I'm glad Wes Streeting won. I was at a lunch with him recently and liked him. Very sad about Nick Clegg. But glad that the Lib Dems did better than expected.
It's a funny old world, as someone once said, that the Tories will have got one of their highest shares of the vote and done very well in Scotland but it feels like a defeat for them.
Still, thankfully at least no PM Corbyn - for now - and even if I'm not a Corbyn supporter, good that the young have turned out to vote. It is not good to have people not voting and if it means that politicians listen to their concerns so much the better.
The trouble is all groups are being bribed and the economy is simply not strong enough to pay for all the promises. At some point soon reality is going to hit and it's not going to be pretty.
Finally, I am going to buff my nails and blow my own trumpet.
I thought Corbyn might just do it and said as much on here a few days ago, to general derision.
I was wrong but not as wrong as all those predicting large Tory majorities.
Assuming 7 Sinn Fein abstain and speaker likewise am I right in thinking that there are 642 active seats and therefore 322 are needed for effective majority?
Care to actually address the points I make? We've had so much sh*t thrown by so-called Conservatives, and now they've lost.
I'm the sort of person they should be appealing to. I could be persuaded. Instead we get 'Waaaaah!'.
Its not about that. Your point was entirely personal to Alan, and entirely unnecessary.
Get some kip mate. You'll feel better for it.
Alan has been, and is, utterly against Cameron r. But they lost me.
chortle
youre off on one again
for the record I have never been against Cameron as such he never moved me one way or the other he was just sort of there
On Osborne, no prizes for guessing he has caused much of the conservative cock up of today
Osborne's not in power. This disaster (and I see it as such) is not down to him, but the clown party of May, Davis, Boris and Fox, along with their acolytes.
The politics of Cameron and Osborne are the future of the Conservative Party, not that of the Europhobes who currently hold the party's reins.
Cameron's not there either and the future of the conservative party is not my imo continual dicking about over Europe, but improving the lives of ordinary votersthrough better housing, improved education,, improving the economy and making the country better off
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
Maybe that isn't such a bad thing, in terms of Brexit.. having both parties involved.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
I'm in the 20-25% go to university and fund them properly camp - it worked well enough like that into the 1990s.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
Labour will expect to win comfortably in 2022 now - why jeopardize that by working with the Tories?
Care to actually address the points I make? We've had so much sh*t thrown by so-called Conservatives, and now they've lost.
I'm the sort of person they should be appealing to. I could be persuaded. Instead we get 'Waaaaah!'.
Its not about that. Your point was entirely personal to Alan, and entirely unnecessary.
Get some kip mate. You'll feel better for it.
Alan has been, and is, utterly against Cameron r. But they lost me.
chortle
youre off on one again
for the record I have never been against Cameron as such he never moved me one way or the other he was just sort of there
On Osborne, no prizes for guessing he has caused much of the conservative cock up of today
Osborne's not in power. This disaster (and I see it as such) is not down to him, but the clown party of May, Davis, Boris and Fox, along with their acolytes.
The politics of Cameron and Osborne are the future of the Conservative Party, not that of the Europhobes who currently hold the party's reins.
Cameron's not there either and the future of the conservative party is not my imo continual dicking about over Europe, but improving the lives of ordinary votersthrough better housing, improved education,, improving the economy and making the country better off
That's what I want as well. In fact (and I'll whisper it quietly) it's what many Labour and Lib Dem supporters want as well. It's not helped by those supposed 'Conservatives' who dick about over Europe.
That's the ends. AS is often the case, the question is the all-important means.
When the election was called I thought she might have a nasty surprise. I was then seduced by the opinion polls and thought she would cruise to victory. Why did I change my mind? Stupid woman should go now. The only good thing might be the stupid Brexit might be nipped in the bud.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
I wonder why Labour hasn't done very well in Finchley and Hendon?
Jewish voters. Simple as.
Yep. I don't understand why this doesn't concern Corbynistas.
Not enough Jewish voters. Lots more Muslim voters. Plus in the hard Left's world view Jews are the enemy: they are white and rich and probably pro-America and capitalist. Anti-Semitism is not really racism in their view. It is a morally repellent view, regardless of Corbyn's electoral success. But it is not, sadly, one which is widely shared, even on this forum.
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
I'm in the 20-25% go to university and fund them properly camp - it worked well enough like that into the 1990s.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
as well as pissing off parents who dont see why their kids should be racked up with debt
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
I'm in the 20-25% go to university and fund them properly camp - it worked well enough like that into the 1990s.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
Me too. As much as I dislike and detest the Tories, a hard left government doesn't bear thinking about
Why not? What's so good about the hard right?
Extremes on both sides are equally bad. Far right and far left become one and the same- discriminating against certain groups out of envy, spite and bitterness.
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
I'm in the 20-25% go to university and fund them properly camp - it worked well enough like that into the 1990s.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
I'm in the let-industry-decide camp.
Then again, I'm a pleb without a degree.
industry isnt training people, it;s importing trained ones from other countries
It'll be painful, but better in the medium- or long-term.
I think you may have a point.
I just can't see this happening. There's no love lost between Lab and SNP. LibDems won't work with Corbyn. Any attempt by Corbyn to rule would fail within the first week, wouldn't it? Not worth risking the embarrassment.
@reactionlife: ITV reporting that Theresa May is likely to announce her intention to resign and trigger a Conservative leadership contest this morning.
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
I'm in the 20-25% go to university and fund them properly camp - it worked well enough like that into the 1990s.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
I'm in the let-industry-decide camp.
Then again, I'm a pleb without a degree.
industry isnt training people, it;s importing trained ones from other countries
There are about 6,000 silicon chip designers - analogue and digital - in the country.
6,000.
When it comes to the rarer analogue (radio) regime, over half of the civil side were on the ship when we got married.
This is f'all to do with the EU. It's to do with *our* historic decisions. We need to import due to our fuckwitidness.
Well not really - the price for DUP support may be high, and Tories won't be 100% disciplined.
Hung parliament an awkward result. But now there will need to be a lot of parliamentary involvement in any negotiation, cumbersome as that is - no where to ensure backing for government strategy otherwise.
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
I'm in the 20-25% go to university and fund them properly camp - it worked well enough like that into the 1990s.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
as well as pissing off parents who dont see why their kids should be racked up with debt
Two kids means £54k fees debt (plus other university debts).
Unaffordable housing in many middle class areas and then the government has the bright idea of the dementia tax.
@reactionlife: ITV reporting that Theresa May is likely to announce her intention to resign and trigger a Conservative leadership contest this morning.
Comments
You - and we - need to ask why.
BBC forecasting two more losses.
Only 16 seats to come.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
1. Get rid of May, get a new leader and call another GE. Hope that the new leader delivers a better result than May.
2. May stays and/or replaced by someone else and delivers Brexit. Gets annihilated in an election in 2+ years time.
Personally I'd try and put Brexit on hold for a few months and try #1. The risk is that Corbyn wins and then it will be a nightmare.
IIRC he tipped:
UK Hung Parliament 2010
UK Tory Majority 2015
US Trump Presidency 2016
......
Right, I really am off to bed now.
Is this true?
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
Must stay on offence = new leader + GE
Kick out May, and let Corbyn try to govern.
It'll be painful, but better in the medium- or long-term.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
Is this true?
Far better to keep her in Scotland. Don't change a winning formula.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
'Do the Remainers have a new spring in their step?' They certainly do. They're the biggest long term winners
Is this true?
Yes, but we haven't had a PM in the Lords since Salisbury.
That's the ends. AS is often the case, the question is the all-important means.
When the election was called I thought she might have a nasty surprise.
I was then seduced by the opinion polls and thought she would cruise to victory. Why did I change my mind? Stupid woman should go now. The only good thing might be the stupid Brexit might be nipped in the bud.
Corbyn would never be able to fulfil his promises and it would all fall apart quickly.
Then again, I'm a pleb without a degree.
Some unfortunate losses, they might have come within a whisker of the original predictions of late teens.
Still think Swinson or someone should take over from him though. They have a tough road to find seats they can challenge in next time.
The next government will be Tory. How long it lasts is another question entirely.
They should scrap Brexit.
As nickP speculated, their less gung ho approach, whilst not going as far as the LDs, night have been crucial in some places.
As you were, basically.
What is DUP Brexit policy?
Soft border with Ireland?
6,000.
When it comes to the rarer analogue (radio) regime, over half of the civil side were on the ship when we got married.
This is f'all to do with the EU. It's to do with *our* historic decisions. We need to import due to our fuckwitidness.
Hung parliament an awkward result. But now there will need to be a lot of parliamentary involvement in any negotiation, cumbersome as that is - no where to ensure backing for government strategy otherwise.
Unaffordable housing in many middle class areas and then the government has the bright idea of the dementia tax.
It implies one more loss - yet there are several recounts underway which could lead to losses.