It'll be painful, but better in the medium- or long-term.
Not possible, I don't think, there's no chance of Corbyn passing a Queen's Speech.
Jezza would bring in a Clean Air Act to tackle air pollution within 30 days.If he does try to implement the Labour manifesto,he has the democratic legitimacy to do so.An emergency budget to end Tory austerity is the clear priority.
It'll be painful, but better in the medium- or long-term.
How on earth do they let Corbyn try to govern with the current parliamentary numbers ? It doesn't compute. But neither can they effectively govern themselves.
Paul Mason is feeling smug today: see his twitter. Newsnight tonight with him and Iain Dale should be hilarious. Polly Mackenzie will also have something to be cheerful about, given how well the LDs have done.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
She can't. Not with the likes of Corbyn and McDonnell.
Davis might be able to work with Starmer, however.
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
I'm in the 20-25% go to university and fund them properly camp - it worked well enough like that into the 1990s.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
as well as pissing off parents who dont see why their kids should be racked up with debt
Two kids means £54k fees debt (plus other university debts).
Unaffordable housing in many middle class areas and then the government has the bright idea of the dementia tax.
it costs about £50k per kid for a degree
two grads getting married have a £100k mortgage around their neck before they get anywhre near a house
Yes, but we haven't had a PM in the Lords since Salisbury.
Not so. Lord Home was PM from the HoL.
Pedantry. That situation lasted four days before Lord Home renounced his peerage and became Sir Alec. The point being that it was unacceptable even then to govern from the Lords.
Boris loses half his majority. How could he possibly become leader when he's more responsible for the mess we're in than anyone except TM herself.
'Do the Remainers have a new spring in their step?' They certainly do. They're the biggest long term winners
Roger, we had a referendum on the EU won by leavers. We have had a GE in which both main parties appeared to accept the result. The one party that didn't was the Lib Dems who've hardly surged forward.
Tories now on 311 - enough to pass a Queens Speech with DUP backing.
The next government will be Tory. How long it lasts is another question entirely.
Tory minority government is the only viable one.
What is DUP Brexit policy?
Soft border with Ireland?
That was already on th eTory wishlist I would think.
In practice a soft border means a soft Brexit.
A new Tory leader will surely want to reshuffle the Brexit team.
The big question (other than whether hard or soft is even viable and what would that mean) is how much the Tories hold together if they should roll back on the hard stuff a little. UKIP are still waiting ini the wings, and with new Tory marginals created, if we had another quick election after some Tories get upset over a softer brexit approach, that is problematic for the party, even as it is probably what most of theMPs in the commons think is the best approach.
two grads getting married have a £100k mortgage around their neck before they get anywhre near a house
This is the whole point. Under the Tories, nominal taxes are lower than under other parties, but the actual cost of having a sensible existence is much, much higher. It's a con.
It'll be painful, but better in the medium- or long-term.
Probably but risky.
Corbyn would never be able to fulfil his promises and it would all fall apart quickly.
People want change. That's what leavers promised, but they didn't think through the consequences.
People want to live in the lifestyle and with the services they think they deserve and they want the government to ensure that they can do so.
Its going to end very badly.
People wan change, because they want the lifestyle want whether they pay for it of preferably not.
It is going to end badly.
If Corbyn can get people to accept higher taxes, and those taxes are spent well and not pissed down union black holes, then good on him. If not, then we're fucked.
May is unworthy to shine Cameron's and Osborne's shoes.
Increasing student fees to £9k per year doesn't look like the best of ideas any more does it.
Well some of us did say it was a bad idea back in 2010.
If only Clegg had told them where to go.
It's easy. *If* you think that 50% of children need to go to university, then fees at that level are necessary. *If* you think it should be less than 50%, then fee can be less.
That's where the discussion should have been. Sadly, aside from on here, it has not been.
I'm in the 20-25% go to university and fund them properly camp - it worked well enough like that into the 1990s.
But as soon as you threaten teenagers with £9k per year debt then you're at risk of some populist (and that's what Corbyn is masquerading as) offering to stop that burden.
as well as pissing off parents who dont see why their kids should be racked up with debt
Two kids means £54k fees debt (plus other university debts).
Unaffordable housing in many middle class areas and then the government has the bright idea of the dementia tax.
it costs about £50k per kid for a degree
two grads getting married have a £100k mortgage around their neck before they get anywhre near a house
Loose change to some of the Bullingdon crowd.
But it was blindingly obviously back in 2010 that it would produce disaster sooner or later.
Theresa May to give a speech at 10am amid reports she will resign:https://t.co/ZdyrWpwDUy June 9, 2017
I'm staying up for that.
I've been up 23 hours now, I think I'll give it a miss. Truly staggered by this outcome, and worried by the uncertainty - a Corbyn majority or at least a clear working arrangement he could cobble together would have been clearer.
Theresa May to give a speech at 10am amid reports she will resign:https://t.co/ZdyrWpwDUy June 9, 2017
I'm staying up for that.
I've been up 23 hours now, I think I'll give it a miss. Truly staggered by this outcome, and worried by the uncertainty - a Corbyn majority or at least a clear working arrangement he could cobble together would have been clearer.
I think over 26 hours - and a third a bottle of whisky and one F1 engine - for me.
two grads getting married have a £100k mortgage around their neck before they get anywhre near a house
This is the whole point. Under the Tories, nominal taxes are lower than under other parties, but the actual cost of having a sensible existence is much, much higher. It's a con.
Low taxes are of little benefit if you wind up paying for education, health and social care on top of the taxes.
This is something that Lab got right, it wasn't the planned nationalisations that won it for them.
I'd intended to catch the exit poll, wait around for a few results and then get some kip. Been up all night and now it's time to go to work :-(
The country doesn't seem to want either a right-wing Tory govt or a left-wing Labour one. Which of them is going to try and shift back to the centre first before the next election?
My guess is the Tories, because Corbyn isn't going anywhere. Can they manage it and not fracture? Beats me.
The Tories need to have a proper leadership election and need to rethink their approach to Brexit. Quite fundamentally in my view.
I'm glad Wes Streeting won. I was at a lunch with him recently and liked him. Very sad about Nick Clegg. But glad that the Lib Dems did better than expected.
It's a funny old world, as someone once said, that the Tories will have got one of their highest shares of the vote and done very well in Scotland but it feels like a defeat for them.
Still, thankfully at least no PM Corbyn - for now - and even if I'm not a Corbyn supporter, good that the young have turned out to vote. It is not good to have people not voting and if it means that politicians listen to their concerns so much the better.
The trouble is all groups are being bribed and the economy is simply not strong enough to pay for all the promises. At some point soon reality is going to hit and it's not going to be pretty.
Finally, I am going to buff my nails and blow my own trumpet.
I thought Corbyn might just do it and said as much on here a few days ago, to general derision.
I was wrong but not as wrong as all those predicting large Tory majorities.
"The biggest winners are the hard Left. Sadly."
You - and we - need to ask why.
In a word: complacency.
Because the moderate social democratic left did not make its case. And nor did the Tories make the case for themselves. And the criticism of Corbyn's hard Left views were that they were vote losers not that they were morally wrong and why they are so. Nor did they show how his economic policies will cause harm and have caused harm everywhere they have been tried.
So for those wanting change - and there is plenty wrong at the moment which needs changing - Labourwas the obvious option.
The Tories need to have a proper leadership election and need to rethink their approach to Brexit. Quite fundamentally in my view.
I'm glad Wes Streeting won. I was at a lunch with him recently and liked him. Very sad about Nick Clegg. But glad that the Lib Dems did better than expected.
It's a funny old world, as someone once said, that the Tories will have got one of their highest shares of the vote and done very well in Scotland but it feels like a defeat for them.
Still, thankfully at least no PM Corbyn - for now - and even if I'm not a Corbyn supporter, good that the young have turned out to vote. It is not good to have people not voting and if it means that politicians listen to their concerns so much the better.
The trouble is all groups are being bribed and the economy is simply not strong enough to pay for all the promises. At some point soon reality is going to hit and it's not going to be pretty.
Finally, I am going to buff my nails and blow my own trumpet.
I thought Corbyn might just do it and said as much on here a few days ago, to general derision.
I was wrong but not as wrong as all those predicting large Tory majorities.
"The biggest winners are the hard Left. Sadly."
You - and we - need to ask why.
In a word: complacency.
Because the moderate social democratic left did not make its case. And nor did the Tories make the case for themselves. And the criticism of Corbyn's hard Left views were that they were vote losers not that they were morally wrong and why they are so. Nor did they show how his economic policies will cause harm and have caused harm everywhere they have been tried.
So for those wanting change - and there is plenty wrong at the moment which needs changing - Labourwas the obvious option.
There were 2 leadership elections, and a Conservative campaign. I think the case was made. It just failed to convince people who voted for Brexit that the status quo was suddenly nice.
Best Labour result in terms of votes cast since 1997 - or to put it the other way Jezhollah got 2m more votes than Blair in 2001.
A fascinating evening. A dozen of those seats won by a double digit vote majority going the other way, and Jeremy would be PM. As it is we don't know who the PM will be...
One option: 1. May resigns at 10am. They'll anoint Boris as populist Foreign Secretary 2. DUP put demands in that the Tories can't back - they want the single market to protect their border 3. Tory Queens Speech contains no material at all barring Brexit. Will it pass...?
Lets be honest. The incoming government has no authority. No traction. No power to negotiate a glass of water from the EU never mind a cost-free hard brexit with access to the single market. What a cluster fuck by the Maybot. Let "Strong and Stable" go down as the stupidest campaign strategy of this generation.
Note to the Tories. Stop fucking about and deal with Brexit properly. It's time to stop swaggering about like Lord Flash and eat some humble pie.
You voted Labour IIRC, so congratulations - looks like there is a demand for change in this country
To a degree - they are largest party, just shy of a majority. So its a demand for change, but not too much. Thanks country.
A demand for change in the midst of the biggest change in two generations - Brexit.
God knows where that leads.
The public is somewhat confused, and are now relying on highly partisan politicians to try to cobble something together from our vague indications, for the best outcome for the country, even though we also punish any hint of compromise or telling of harsh truths.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
Maybe that isn't such a bad thing, in terms of Brexit.. having both parties involved.
I stayed up and watched the whole thing - with the help of grapefruit juice, Pringles and (yes...) popcorn.
I'm sad about the Lib Dem losses (especially Nick Clegg) but happy to see the overall gains. This looks, overall, like a much stronger and effective Lib Dem parliamentary team now - and I don't particularly mean in the numerical sense but more in terms of the individual people involved.
Off to work now. Hope I can stay awake for another 9 hours there.
Lets be honest. The incoming government has no authority. No traction. No power to negotiate a glass of water from the EU never mind a cost-free hard brexit with access to the single market. What a cluster fuck by the Maybot. Let "Strong and Stable" go down as the stupidest campaign strategy of this generation.
Yes, but we haven't had a PM in the Lords since Salisbury.
Not so. Lord Home was PM from the HoL.
Pedantry. That situation lasted four days before Lord Home renounced his peerage and became Sir Alec. The point being that it was unacceptable even then to govern from the Lords.
Note to the Tories. Stop fucking about and deal with Brexit properly. It's time to stop swaggering about like Lord Flash and eat some humble pie.
You voted Labour IIRC, so congratulations - looks like there is a demand for change in this country
To a degree - they are largest party, just shy of a majority. So its a demand for change, but not too much. Thanks country.
A demand for change in the midst of the biggest change in two generations - Brexit.
God knows where that leads.
The public is somewhat confused, and are now relying on highly partisan politicians to try to cobble something together from our vague indications, for the best outcome for the country, even though we also punish any hint of compromise or telling of harsh truths.
Well if May does resign, Betfair says there are only 5 Tory runners:
May 2.44-2.58
Boris 4-4.3 (Foreign Sec) Davis 12-12.5 (Europe Sec and previous Shadow Home Secretary). Rudd 7.8-10.5 (Home Sec) Hammond 50-140 (Chancellor) Gove 70-110 (Previously at Education and Justice)
All have problems but at current prices I'm happy with my score on Gove.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
Maybe that isn't such a bad thing, in terms of Brexit.. having both parties involved.
Damning with faint praise, much?
Thought it was a good one. maybe not a national government, but at least on Brexit.
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
Labour will expect to win comfortably in 2022 now - why jeopardize that by working with the Tories?
May is not far off evens to be next PM. I think she will carry on - because she should.
Of course her ambitious colleagues are falling over themselves to ,"offer their services to the country". But she stood on a mandate to deliver BREXIT and the electorate have given her the most votes. So she stood stand and deliver.
I'm not arguing through my pocket. I'm trying to interpret the GBP's thinking. She may well want to walk away - but this is her moment in history. To navigate the British people through BREXIT.
I've talked myself around. May for next PM at 1.89.
I'm on!
It's clear that the electorate want 'none of the above'.
There are big issues that need to be addressed: Brexit, terrorism and social care.
May should propose a national government, with a 2.5 year term.
Labour will expect to win comfortably in 2022 now - why jeopardize that by working with the Tories?
Comments
Its going to end very badly.
It doesn't compute.
But neither can they effectively govern themselves.
Nice little puzzle May has left her successor.
Coffee House (@SpecCoffeeHouse)
Theresa May to give a speech at 10am amid reports she will resign:https://t.co/ZdyrWpwDUy
June 9, 2017
Is this true?
Legally, of course it is.
Politically a non runner. She'd turn it down for starters...
Davis might be able to work with Starmer, however.
two grads getting married have a £100k mortgage around their neck before they get anywhre near a house
Note to the Tories. Stop fucking about and deal with Brexit properly. It's time to stop swaggering about like Lord Flash and eat some humble pie.
A new Tory leader will surely want to reshuffle the Brexit team.
It is going to end badly.
If Corbyn can get people to accept higher taxes, and those taxes are spent well and not pissed down union black holes, then good on him. If not, then we're fucked.
But people want change.
But it was blindingly obviously back in 2010 that it would produce disaster sooner or later.
Spreadsheet Phil would be a better bet.
Surely May remains PM whilst new leadership election takes place.
It feels like the Tory vote has been inefficient in the most cruel way possible.
More than made up for with Scottish seat bets - which will pay for a very nice night out...
This is something that Lab got right, it wasn't the planned nationalisations that won it for them.
The country doesn't seem to want either a right-wing Tory govt or a left-wing Labour one. Which of them is going to try and shift back to the centre first before the next election?
My guess is the Tories, because Corbyn isn't going anywhere. Can they manage it and not fracture? Beats me.
WillS.
Because the moderate social democratic left did not make its case. And nor did the Tories make the case for themselves. And the criticism of Corbyn's hard Left views were that they were vote losers not that they were morally wrong and why they are so. Nor did they show how his economic policies will cause harm and have caused harm everywhere they have been tried.
So for those wanting change - and there is plenty wrong at the moment which needs changing - Labourwas the obvious option.
Con: 11,334,576 -> 13,438,849
Lab: 9,347,304 -> 12,742,291
May added 2.1M votes onto the best Cameron ever did but still ends up having to resign because Labour added 3.4M.
Incredible really when you think that Blair got a big majority in 2005 with just 9,567,589 votes!
A fascinating evening. A dozen of those seats won by a double digit vote majority going the other way, and Jeremy would be PM. As it is we don't know who the PM will be...
One option:
1. May resigns at 10am. They'll anoint Boris as populist Foreign Secretary
2. DUP put demands in that the Tories can't back - they want the single market to protect their border
3. Tory Queens Speech contains no material at all barring Brexit. Will it pass...?
Lets be honest. The incoming government has no authority. No traction. No power to negotiate a glass of water from the EU never mind a cost-free hard brexit with access to the single market. What a cluster fuck by the Maybot. Let "Strong and Stable" go down as the stupidest campaign strategy of this generation.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40199259
God knows where that leads.
But at risk:
Kensington
Richmond Park
St Ives
Maybe a chance of gaining Dudley North?
The 5 they've lost are Middlesbrough South, Walsall North, Copeland, Stoke South, Mansfield.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VAUtJZzfnfYS_uarczPdRBJ1XgVNGfvyBU6Adz5YDGc/edit
It's going to be a tough few years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/insurance/8524688/Insurance-giant-Munich-Re-admits-it-used-prostitutes-to-reward-staff.html
I'm sad about the Lib Dem losses (especially Nick Clegg) but happy to see the overall gains. This looks, overall, like a much stronger and effective Lib Dem parliamentary team now - and I don't particularly mean in the numerical sense but more in terms of the individual people involved.
Off to work now. Hope I can stay awake for another 9 hours there.
May 2.44-2.58
Boris 4-4.3 (Foreign Sec)
Davis 12-12.5 (Europe Sec and previous Shadow Home Secretary).
Rudd 7.8-10.5 (Home Sec)
Hammond 50-140 (Chancellor)
Gove 70-110 (Previously at Education and Justice)
All have problems but at current prices I'm happy with my score on Gove.
Congratulations Jeremy Corbyn and Labour, mixed blessings to the LDs, and pull your bloody socks up Tories.
The campaign was shambolic. Atrocious. Manifesto was a suicide note.
..god knows where we go from here.