For those wondering what's happening in Qatar, it's not just a cut of diplomatic links with the rest of the GCC, it's a full economic blockade affecting airlines and ships. Expat shops in Doha are already out of most imported foods, which come through UAE. Qatar Airways are having to route all flights to Doha in from the North, avoiding Saudi, Bahrain and UAE airspace.
tory voters don't know the difference between right or wrong. if they did know the difference, they wouldn't be a tory anymore.
tories believe in a 2-tier system. They want a 2 tier education system (private/state); they want a 2 tier health system (private/public) they want a 2 tier benefit system (pensioners/unemployed).
The sole aim of existence of the tory party is to reduce competition to the status quo and maintain control of the establishment. Most industries in our country are full of private school kids; the media and politics especially.
She is a good person. Can't attack her on her view on the world. Has always voted Tory because her parents do. But she lives in MSEC. One less Tory vote is worth having...
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
My thought entirely. What are a polite and non-confrontational nation we are.
FWIW a few of us on the ground in Scotland have been predicting this shift since the Tory manifesto launch and the increasingly optimistic predictions of SCON gains by SCON and their MSM fanboys. The Corbyn surge has just added to this shift.
Labour's problem is that the increase in vote will come reasonably uniformly and just lead to slightly better 2nd places in much of Glasgow and the west of Scotland.
Indeed but it will also eat into the tactical support both SCON & SLID were hoping to receive. I think this will impact SCON more than SLID.
Interestingly I was chatting with a chap from East Renfrewshire at the weekend - he thinks SLAB will beat SCON into 3rd - not sure where this leaves SCON and their Barcharts.
They are paralysed by the Crosby campaign which has not allowed them to discuss anything but Corbyn.. sounds a bit familiar with what happened with the campaign for the london mayoralty. Trouble is its like a supertanker and they cant turn it around now. Its sweaty palms and brown trousers time formthe capt of the ship
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Maybe she thinks you're a tedious self-regarding patronising mansplaining bore and told you that so you'd go away? Could that be another possibility?
Was watching a rerun of the 2015 BBC election coverage this morning to get an idea of exactly when Battersea and Nuneaton were called.
I do fear that we may see some 'interesting exchanges' during the actual declarations, especially from the Momentum supporters. I think back to the Putney 1997 declaration which threatened to get out of hand, and feel we may see a fair more of that this time round!
You might well be correct, particularly in London. I could see somewhere like Bristol not reacting too well if Charlotte Leslie gets re-elected.
I imagine that a lot of the grandfolks would give a subtle hint to their grandkids about what life was like back in the 1970s, when Corbyn's friends were last in charge of the country, or the '80s and '90s, when his friends were blowing it up.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Sounds like you turned her into a "shy" Tory to me...
tory voters don't know the difference between right or wrong.
This is just silly.
Election after election tory voters turn their back on people who work in public services, homelessness, young people that have student debt
you want an economy where its who you know and to get any decent money you need the bank of mum and dad. you want to destroy any kind of competition. you want a monopoly solely for your children whether it be jobs, education, healthcare, housing and so on.
There are actions backing up the talk of panic from CCHQ. For example people were going to be diverted from previously regarded safe south london seats on polling day to more marginal ones.. this has now been abandoned.
Not sure I understand this post? Who is supposedly panicking and diverting resources?
Its compare and contrast. Everyone knew Corbyn would be destroyed on national security because of what he said. But in practice its MayBe being destroyed on this subject because of what she's done and what her manifesto says she will continue to do.
That's very wishful thinking on your part. Much of the criticism is focusing on the Police rather than May so she's so far dodged a bullet so to speak. Every day security is in the headlines it hurts Labour, they desperately need to get the conversation on to the NHS or inequality.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
tory voters don't know the difference between right or wrong. if they did know the difference, they wouldn't be a tory anymore.
tories believe in a 2-tier system. They want a 2 tier education system (private/state); they want a 2 tier health system (private/public) they want a 2 tier benefit system (pensioners/unemployed).
The sole aim of existence of the tory party is to reduce competition to the status quo and maintain control of the establishment. Most industries in our country are full of private school kids; the media and politics especially.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
Two minutes of someone banging on about baby-eaters is enough to turn anybody into a Shy Tory.
I don't know why this sort of thing isn't reported more prominently in the UK press:
More than 130 imams refuse to perform Islamic burials for Manchester and London attackers
"We will not perform the traditional Islamic funeral prayer for the perpetrators and we also urge fellow imams and religious authorities to withdraw such a privilege. This is because such indefensible actions are completely at odds with the lofty teachings of Islam"
Because it would make it harder for Daily Mailers to say 'the community should be doing more', based on their ignorance of what Muslim communities actually do in response to these nutjobs?
What, because the whole of the UK press is at all times 100% behind the Daily Mail's agenda and goes out of its way to give the Mail a clear run? Numpty.
The Sun and the Daily Mail being by far the highest circulation print media? You do find such stories in the likes of the Guardian and the Indy, but who notices? Pretty pathetic to try and start a barney on here, numpty.
So, the fact of "The Sun and the Daily Mail being by far the highest circulation print media" ineluctably dictates what the Guardian, the Independent and the BBC (for instance) report and don't report? Could you explain in detail how that comes about?
I think the evidence on the ground is stacking up for a TMICIPM big maj approaching landslide.
The Manchester Evening News report.
The Lab Uncut one
My own in NE Derbyshire.
Could well be bed at 22.05 on Thursday for me.
I do find the reports on the ground, including in my own patch, impossible to reconcile with the (most of) the polls. Of the two constituencies I oversee, Theresa May has been to Hemsworth twice and Wakefield not at all (though that said, the main manifesto launch would have been in Wakefield had we been able to source an appropriate venue at short notice). Even so, to visit somewhere like Hemsworth twice (and that would have been three times had we been able to arrange details for another visit), is completely inconsistent with a picture of a national net swing to Labour.
Quite what is going on, the gods only know. I assume that they're laughing.
There are actions backing up the talk of panic from CCHQ. For example people were going to be diverted from previously regarded safe south london seats on polling day to more marginal ones.. this has now been abandoned.
Not sure I understand this post? Who is supposedly panicking and diverting resources?
I cant say anymore sorry.. but its resource thatbwas going to go from a supposed safe Tory south london seat to one that needs help ie a marginal but they cant now because thatbseat isnt as safe as they thought.
I imagine that a lot of the grandfolks would give a subtle hint to their grandkids about what life was like back in the 1970s, when Corbyn's friends were last in charge of the country, or the '80s and '90s, when his friends were blowing it up.
I thought that. Probably the last thing Labour want youngsters doing is talking Corbyn w their 'grandfolks'
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
More likely, she probably just told you she isn't going to vote to spare herself from your lecturing.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Maybe she thinks you're a tedious self-regarding patronising mansplaining bore and told you that so you'd go away? Could that be another possibility?
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
tory voters don't know the difference between right or wrong. if they did know the difference, they wouldn't be a tory anymore.
tories believe in a 2-tier system. They want a 2 tier education system (private/state); they want a 2 tier health system (private/public) they want a 2 tier benefit system (pensioners/unemployed).
The sole aim of existence of the tory party is to reduce competition to the status quo and maintain control of the establishment. Most industries in our country are full of private school kids; the media and politics especially.
I thought half term was over?
I'm not even sure TravelJunkie is old enough for school. The term infantile does spring readily to mind
There are actions backing up the talk of panic from CCHQ. For example people were going to be diverted from previously regarded safe south london seats on polling day to more marginal ones.. this has now been abandoned.
Not sure I understand this post? Who is supposedly panicking and diverting resources?
I cant say anymore sorry.. but its resource thatbwas going to go from a supposed safe Tory south london seat to one that needs help ie a marginal but they cant now because thatbseat isnt as safe as they thought.
I'm with you. I just wasn't sure which party you were referring to re panix. There aren't many safe Conservative South London seats that spring to mind. Thanks.
There are actions backing up the talk of panic from CCHQ. For example people were going to be diverted from previously regarded safe south london seats on polling day to more marginal ones.. this has now been abandoned.
Not sure I understand this post? Who is supposedly panicking and diverting resources?
I cant say anymore sorry.. but its resource thatbwas going to go from a supposed safe Tory south london seat to one that needs help ie a marginal but they cant now because thatbseat isnt as safe as they thought.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
My thought entirely. What are a polite and non-confrontational nation we are.
Her starting position was not voting at all this time. A few of us said everyone should vote. Then she said how she normally votes....
I imagine that a lot of the grandfolks would give a subtle hint to their grandkids about what life was like back in the 1970s, when Corbyn's friends were last in charge of the country, or the '80s and '90s, when his friends were blowing it up.
That survey the other week, that showed that many old people were thinking more about the debates and issues of the past than about which policies are best for our future, was notable. Experience is only a benefit if you can apply it to new challenges, not just re-fighting old battles. The Tories have done themselves no favours basing their campaign on scare stories from thirty or forty years ago. For many younger votes that is ancient history, and no more persuasive than blaming the Tories for appeasement when I first voted aged 18.
Lot of Labour posters appearing since the weekend. Several local Conservatives I know from my Councillor days are very worried and their morale is much reduced. Read into that what you want. My bet on 0 -3 Lib dem seats is coming on. Roll on a hung Parliament, May resigns on Friday, Johnson takes over in due course and a minority government. That should end Brexit. We can then all get back to normal. What so many people do not realise is that much of the governments work has slowed or is on hold because so many resources have been diverted to Brexit. We neeed to get back to normal management, whether its minority , coalition or one party with a small majority.
In the EU ref if was the middle-managers, the same sort who will be rabidly in love with Corbyn. When the vote happened they went into Meeksian-style fury. Everybody else in the office just politely nodded along, many of them voted to Leave.
Whatever happens, the post-match analysis (and after-timing) here is going to be hysterical (in every sense)
The best after timing from GE 2015 for me was someone posting "I always knew Ukip would poll 12-13% but get shellacked by FPTP" despite having bet me £100 at even money that Ukip would poll under 9%
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
tory voters don't know the difference between right or wrong. if they did know the difference, they wouldn't be a tory anymore.
tories believe in a 2-tier system. They want a 2 tier education system (private/state); they want a 2 tier health system (private/public) they want a 2 tier benefit system (pensioners/unemployed).
The sole aim of existence of the tory party is to reduce competition to the status quo and maintain control of the establishment. Most industries in our country are full of private school kids; the media and politics especially.
I thought half term was over?
are you going to debate that your party wants a 2 state system or just throw shit?
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
tory voters don't know the difference between right or wrong. if they did know the difference, they wouldn't be a tory anymore.
tories believe in a 2-tier system. They want a 2 tier education system (private/state); they want a 2 tier health system (private/public) they want a 2 tier benefit system (pensioners/unemployed).
The sole aim of existence of the tory party is to reduce competition to the status quo and maintain control of the establishment. Most industries in our country are full of private school kids; the media and politics especially.
First thing I heard in my office this morning was "what has she done now"
I assumed they were talking about one of their colleagues, turns out this bunch of people I have never heard discussing politics were discussing Diane Abbott's latest car crash.
Lord Carlile QC the independent reviewer of anti terror legislation has said "‘The notion that she could lead the Home Office should leave us all in frozen apprehension.’
Quite
Abbott was being discussed by my colleague this morning. Firmed up her Tory VI I think.
DA is unwell
Think shes got the shits.
Or is Shit
I think she is unwell. She is 63. If a relative of mine deteriorated from the way she used to be on the Abbott and Portillo show to the way she is now, I'd be wanting some neurological testing done.
If she's not unwell she is spectacularly incompetent. Her performance last night was reminiscent of someone who had bluffed their way into a senior management role and is in their first board meeting with no clue about anything and trying to wing it, badly.
It reminded me very strongly of me in an undergraduate tutorial, with a combination of a bad hangover and being still drunk/stoned from last night, trying to disguise the fact that I hadn't even looked at the primary sources the tutorial was meant to be about, never mind anything else.
:like:
If Labour does win, can you imagine what ministerial questions will be like? Labour has done pretty well this campaign, not least because campaigning is what the likes of Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell have done their whole political life. It is their home turf and it's where they're most comfortable (and conversely, it's where May is clearly least comfortable). But there were good reasons why Labour was on 25% at the dissolution and were they to win, I'm quite sure that those same reasons - magnified under the focus paid to governments - would see them polling into the teens within a year.
My guess would be that that very prospect will be why Labour loses - but the polls might be right and the activists reporting their feelings might all be wrong.
There are actions backing up the talk of panic from CCHQ. For example people were going to be diverted from previously regarded safe south london seats on polling day to more marginal ones.. this has now been abandoned.
Not sure I understand this post? Who is supposedly panicking and diverting resources?
I cant say anymore sorry.. but its resource thatbwas going to go from a supposed safe Tory south london seat to one that needs help ie a marginal but they cant now because thatbseat isnt as safe as they thought.
But we know there is talk of Labour doing well in London, that doesn't imply a nationwide panic.
Good morning fellow PBers and new folks. The inventor of the SCon surge has risen from the grave. I am delighted to see Jack W is still vertical. Clearly being pickled in vintage claret works well for Ancient Jacobites. I have been lurking for the past month. I watched all the nonsense spoken about the SCons last year as it became clear to those of us who live in North Britain that Ruth Davidson is heading for canonisation. Her second miracle will take place in 48hrs time. Get those Klaxons at the ready!!
My instinct tells me that Theresa is not going to get an increased majority and that we are entering a period of very unstable Government. I am pleased that my Canadian trip was last month when I received a good exchange rate (1.75) as I expect that on Friday there will be a blood bath on the markets.
The irony is that Theresa is by far the best for dealing with this security crisis as labour would just not be able to take the hard decisions needed.
Still we are where we are and it looks increasingly likely to me that we are heading for a soft Brexit
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
Two minutes of someone banging on about baby-eaters is enough to turn anybody into a Shy Tory.
I think so. People like RochdalePioneers and Travel Junkie mobilise Tory votes very effectively, I would think.
Women in particular would hear hectoring, mansplaining and narcissism, and recoil from it. You can't have a proper conversation with anyone like that and whatever such a person thinks you tend to want to think the opposite.
There are arguments for voting Labour, but lectures about morality from the party that invaded Iraq then wrecked the economy aren't foremost among them, it must be said.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
My thought entirely. What are a polite and non-confrontational nation we are.
Her starting position was not voting at all this time. A few of us said everyone should vote. Then she said how she normally votes....
"A MAN is convinced colleagues share his pro-Labour views after he ranted at them about all other parties being evil scumbags 'Administrator Tom Logan won over his politically wavering colleagues by warning them not to be selfish evil bastards who hate the poor and needy."
That survey the other week, that showed that many old people were thinking more about the debates and issues of the past than about which policies are best for our future, was notable. Experience is only a benefit if you can apply it to new challenges, not just re-fighting old battles.
All the talk this morning about posters and leaflets. Did no-one watch SKY News this morning? They gave a good analysis of the online campaign with Jon Cruddas and others expressing the view that the Tories are way ahead in the online game.
Over the next day and a bit I'll be trawling through my party contacts to get an appreciation from them of the state of play. As in previous election years I'll report back. I hope to post that report late tomorrow afternoon or early evening.
Sadly some of my old contacts have gone to the supreme counting centre in the sky. Some are new to the world of the Jacobite insurgency.
Good stuff JackW...pbCOM's oldest, and most reliable tipster (we can give you a pass for POTUS 2016...everyone has a bad day right)
TBF @JackW got the total votes right, but was unlucky on the distribution. So he deserves at least 5/10 for effort.
I don't know why this sort of thing isn't reported more prominently in the UK press:
More than 130 imams refuse to perform Islamic burials for Manchester and London attackers
"We will not perform the traditional Islamic funeral prayer for the perpetrators and we also urge fellow imams and religious authorities to withdraw such a privilege. This is because such indefensible actions are completely at odds with the lofty teachings of Islam"
Because it would make it harder for Daily Mailers to say 'the community should be doing more', based on their ignorance of what Muslim communities actually do in response to these nutjobs?
What, because the whole of the UK press is at all times 100% behind the Daily Mail's agenda and goes out of its way to give the Mail a clear run? Numpty.
The Sun and the Daily Mail being by far the highest circulation print media? You do find such stories in the likes of the Guardian and the Indy, but who notices? Pretty pathetic to try and start a barney on here, numpty.
So, the fact of "The Sun and the Daily Mail being by far the highest circulation print media" ineluctably dictates what the Guardian, the Independent and the BBC (for instance) report and don't report? Could you explain in detail how that comes about?
Original questioner asked 'why it isn't reported more prominently in the UK press'. The answer is probably because it would undermine a well-selling stance of the two highest circulation newspapers in the country, where the lack of such stories has an impact. There are lots of people whose response to these events is 'well what are the Muslim community doing about it!?' without having any idea what those communities do and no interest in finding out, it pays to reinforce that standpoint rather than challenge it if you are the Sun or the Daily Mail. You need to join Diane and have a lie down.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
Two minutes of someone banging on about baby-eaters is enough to turn anybody into a Shy Tory.
There are arguments for voting Labour, but lectures about morality from the party that invaded Iraq then wrecked the economy aren't foremost among them, it must be said.
That was the War Criminal Party and the Greedy Bankers Party
Tell me, how does the rest of the world look to you from up there on your high horse?
You should save this sort of moralising drivel for Facebook, where I'm sure you'd get plenty of 'likes' to give you that warm fuzzy feeling.
Looks far better than I suspect it does in the Tory gutter. Treating people with basic decency and humanity used to be a key Tory principle as well. Its not me that found false morals, its the Conservative Party that lost them.
I'm totally sick and tired of people like you impugning upon my morals, ethics and basic human decency just because we happen to support a different polirival party. Attitudes like yours explain why there are just so many shy Tories.
There is nothing unhuman about ensuring the nation is solvent, the economy strong, and the overall level of wealth in the nation growing.
In fact, that's the only way the additional investment in public services you crave can be sustainably achieved. Anything else is hogwash.
You will lose on Thursday, and deservedly so, for daring to take Britain back to the stone ages and insulting the integrity of almost half its electorate who, thankfully, have far more common sense than you do.
You've had 7 years and the Tory manifesto promises 5 more years of cuts.
When exactly is the additional investment of which you speak going to become manifest?
I think the evidence on the ground is stacking up for a TMICIPM big maj approaching landslide.
The Manchester Evening News report.
The Lab Uncut one
My own in NE Derbyshire.
Could well be bed at 22.05 on Thursday for me.
I do find the reports on the ground, including in my own patch, impossible to reconcile with the (most of) the polls. Of the two constituencies I oversee, Theresa May has been to Hemsworth twice and Wakefield not at all (though that said, the main manifesto launch would have been in Wakefield had we been able to source an appropriate venue at short notice). Even so, to visit somewhere like Hemsworth twice (and that would have been three times had we been able to arrange details for another visit), is completely inconsistent with a picture of a national net swing to Labour.
Quite what is going on, the gods only know. I assume that they're laughing.
Does the mismatch feel the same as other elections or is this something new?
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
My thought entirely. What are a polite and non-confrontational nation we are.
Her starting position was not voting at all this time. A few of us said everyone should vote. Then she said how she normally votes....
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
tory voters don't know the difference between right or wrong. if they did know the difference, they wouldn't be a tory anymore.
tories believe in a 2-tier system. They want a 2 tier education system (private/state); they want a 2 tier health system (private/public) they want a 2 tier benefit system (pensioners/unemployed).
The sole aim of existence of the tory party is to reduce competition to the status quo and maintain control of the establishment. Most industries in our country are full of private school kids; the media and politics especially.
I thought half term was over?
Inset day? Or study leave for GCSEs?
A number of Year 6 away trips are this week. My youngest is in Wales, for example. TravelJunkie could be about 11, I would say.
That's my facebook in a nutshell - I think the discussion on here is far more civil. Particularly I have to say the Labour posters.
Same here. I've given up posting alternative view points or polling evidence to the "Tories are dreadful, May is rubbish, Corbyn is great" posts.
I suspect they'll all go very quiet on June 9th. If Facebook was any guide we'd be heading for a Labour landslide.....
lets get this straight.
1) You care more about your party than you do your country. That says a lot about who you are to the core as a human being. 2) Theresa May is the worst leader of the tory party I can ever remember (Thatcher onwards). She has no charisma, no personality and on every policy issue shes been on the wrong side of the debate. 3) She was a terrible home secretary. She cut police numbers, she froze their pay while rich people got a tax cut. 4) Theresa May will be prime minister come friday but hardly anyone will give a shit. Nobody likes her, she's been found out and just 1992 and 2005; its the last election the tories will win. Labour will build up votes in the wrong places but change will be in the air come 2022 because slowly but slowly people are becoming sick and tired of cuts for everyone else and benefits going to the rich and pensioners (just because they fucking vote)
I CARE ABOUT MY COUNTRY. you might care but not as much as you care about the self interest of your tory party.
Lot of Labour posters appearing since the weekend. Several local Conservatives I know from my Councillor days are very worried and their morale is much reduced. Read into that what you want. My bet on 0 -3 Lib dem seats is coming on. Roll on a hung Parliament, May resigns on Friday, Johnson takes over in due course and a minority government. That should end Brexit. We can then all get back to normal. What so many people do not realise is that much of the governments work has slowed or is on hold because so many resources have been diverted to Brexit. We neeed to get back to normal management, whether its minority , coalition or one party with a small majority.
LOL. If you think Brexit is just going to go away you are another one living in a fantasy world. According to the polls something over 80% of the population are going to be voting for the two parties who have both committed to Brexit. The party that has said it opposes Brexit and tried to use that as a vote winner is getting completely stuffed.
Whatever else does or does not happen, Brexit will happen.
North and Leith is within striking distance though.
If Labour are up in North and Leith, I suspect that will let the SNP back in.
You will notice Tezza was in EN&L yesterday. The Tories really think they can take it
Favourite anecdote from there. Someone on Twitter said they had never seen a Tory on their street in Leith. The candidate replied "I was your postie!"
My model makes EN&L a Tory gain.
I can believe the Tories are up in North but nae chance in Leith. It would be a turnout question - the posh twats in the million pound homes come out and vote Tory but would the unwashed huddled masses of Leith troop to the polling places?
See, I've managed to insult both demographics there.
Mr. NorthWales, I disagree. Con to increase votes and seats. Not to staggering proportions, but a sort of 2005 (maybe slightly better) Lab victory level.
The blues have a massive lead with the elderly, who vote. The reds have a massive lead with the young, who do not. And are fewer in number.
There are arguments for voting Labour, but lectures about morality from the party that invaded Iraq then wrecked the economy aren't foremost among them, it must be said.
Thing is Alice those things don't wash either - except for with Tory flag wavers. Iraq was stupid. And was wholeheartedly supported by the Tories. Which is why it wasn't an electoral issue even in 2005. And the wrecked economy - feels pretty wrecked to millions of people out there who work hard and can't pay their bills. And ramping up debt by 70% at the same time as grinding austerity tells you all you need to know about Tory economics.
Quick question. The various examples of terminal cancer patients being "cured" and dying in penury. The terminally ill patients who posthumously overturn their "fit for work" judgements. The disabled being left to sit in their own filth having had their motability car and wheelchair and home help taken away. You alright with that? I clearly disagree with you on economics, but as a basic issue of humanity I want to hear you either defend it or decry it.
Tell me, how does the rest of the world look to you from up there on your high horse?
You should save this sort of moralising drivel for Facebook, where I'm sure you'd get plenty of 'likes' to give you that warm fuzzy feeling.
Looks far better than I suspect it does in the Tory gutter. Treating people with basic decency and humanity used to be a key Tory principle as well. Its not me that found false morals, its the Conservative Party that lost them.
I'm totally sick and tired of people like you impugning upon my morals, ethics and basic human decency just because we happen to support a different polirival party. Attitudes like yours explain why there are just so many shy Tories.
There is nothing unhuman about ensuring the nation is solvent, the economy strong, and the overall level of wealth in the nation growing.
In fact, that's the only way the additional investment in public services you crave can be sustainably achieved. Anything else is hogwash.
You will lose on Thursday, and deservedly so, for daring to take Britain back to the stone ages and insulting the integrity of almost half its electorate who, thankfully, have far more common sense than you do.
You've had 7 years and the Tory manifesto promises 5 more years of cuts.
When exactly is the additional investment of which you speak going to become manifest?
Labour spent it all.
We are growing into their levels of spending
that secret money tree went to the banks and now all the rich people have shares in the banks after osborne gave them a discount.
Cutting spending is almost off the table now. None of the parties are talking about it, the public has had enough, and the upward pressures on pensions, health, social care and education are significant. Obviously there'll still be constraints on most departments, but total public spending is not going to go down.
They'll have a go at raising some more money next, depending on how constrained they are by their politics and promises.
The eventual 'solution' will be a sustained period of inflation above interest rates, on the basis that all of the alternative solutions to the debt crisis are more catastrophic.
Unfortunately we are still living far beyond our means and there is no prospect of us doing anything about it until it is too late. Things like making sure corporations pay their taxes properly are necessary but only in terms of removing the distraction and proving that the underlying problem cannot be solved that way. Raising taxes will not work long term because eventually you run into Maggie's old adage and run out of other people's money. In the meantime people get more and more wedded to the idea that the 'Government' will always provide all these services. It is simply fantasy and the sooner we face up to that the better.
Our political system (and arguably our economic and financial ones as well) doesn't point people towards the right long-term decisions, though. The upside of short-term decisions is always greater than of doing the right thing longer term.
We have a divided enough society as it is. How can someone vote for a party which wants to turn the clock back to a time when we had grammar schools and secondary moderns and someone who wants to gratuitously bring back fox hunting? I mean what does it tell you?
Corbyn Abbott and McDonnell might not add up to a coherent government but at least their hearts and sensibilities are slightly more in the right place than Theresa May's.
I've been going backwards and forwards like a see-saw but her last insult to our (soon to be ex) EU partners who still have their flags at half mast and the fog cleared.
Roger, with all due respect and in the light of your numerous posts, I find it difficult to believe that you ever considered voting for the conservatives.
No I wouldn't but I always thought May the safer option. But after the moving funeral of the girl from Barra I pictured a future May government and it struck me it was going to be anything but benign. More likely Thatcher Mk2. 'Never walk away without picking a fight with someone'. She's set her stall out early with selective education fox hunting and arrogance towards a warm hearted EU.
By contrast Corbyn is just an old fashioned peacenik who wouldn't rattle anyone's cage. If it wasn't for his crap backroom staff I might have voted for him. As it is I'm going to give this on a miss.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
Two minutes of someone banging on about baby-eaters is enough to turn anybody into a Shy Tory.
There are arguments for voting Labour, but lectures about morality from the party that invaded Iraq then wrecked the economy aren't foremost among them, it must be said.
That was the War Criminal Party and the Greedy Bankers Party
Corbyn does not look anything like those
No, I think you'll find it was exactly the Labour Party. Own it.
That is very true. Don't want to sound disrespectful but I've heard foodbanks being discussed way more amongst my middle than working class friends. What Labour thinks people want to hear and what people actually want to hear are two very different things in my experience.
I've never understood the left's hatred of food banks. Surely looking after those in society who have very little should be exactly what they support?
If Diane Abbott becomes Home Secretary, she'll be on a salary of £141k pa. Just think: that's enough to pay for almost 5000 coppers.
Not 50,000?
Nah: don't exaggerate. £30 a year was her first guess.
As an aside, I have rather more sympathy for that error, which was presumably a verbal slip - she must have meant to say 'million' rather than 'thousand' - than her next guess of £80m which was either a number just picked out of the air or dreadfully poor mental maths. True, £300m would probably still be some way short of actually paying for 10,000 new officers but it would at least be something derivable from actual salaries (albeit ignoring a whole load of other costs).
Mr. NorthWales, I disagree. Con to increase votes and seats. Not to staggering proportions, but a sort of 2005 (maybe slightly better) Lab victory level.
The blues have a massive lead with the elderly, who vote. The reds have a massive lead with the young, who do not. And are fewer in number.
Good morning fellow PBers and new folks. The inventor of the SCon surge has risen from the grave. I am delighted to see Jack W is still vertical. Clearly being pickled in vintage claret works well for Ancient Jacobites. I have been lurking for the past month. I watched all the nonsense spoken about the SCons last year as it became clear to those of us who live in North Britain that Ruth Davidson is heading for canonisation. Her second miracle will take place in 48hrs time. Get those Klaxons at the ready!!
First thing I heard in my office this morning was "what has she done now"
I assumed they were talking about one of their colleagues, turns out this bunch of people I have never heard discussing politics were discussing Diane Abbott's latest car crash.
Lord Carlile QC the independent reviewer of anti terror legislation has said "‘The notion that she could lead the Home Office should leave us all in frozen apprehension.’
Quite
Abbott was being discussed by my colleague this morning. Firmed up her Tory VI I think.
DA is unwell
Think shes got the shits.
Or is Shit
I think she is unwell. She is 63. If a relative of mine deteriorated from the way she used to be on the Abbott and Portillo show to the way she is now, I'd be wanting some neurological testing done.
If she's not unwell she is spectacularly incompetent. Her performance last night was reminiscent of someone who had bluffed their way into a senior management role and is in their first board meeting with no clue about anything and trying to wing it, badly.
It reminded me very strongly of me in an undergraduate tutorial, with a combination of a bad hangover and being still drunk/stoned from last night, trying to disguise the fact that I hadn't even looked at the primary sources the tutorial was meant to be about, never mind anything else.
:like:
If Labour does win, can you imagine what ministerial questions will be like? Labour has done pretty well this campaign, not least because campaigning is what the likes of Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell have done their whole political life. It is their home turf and it's where they're most comfortable (and conversely, it's where May is clearly least comfortable). But there were good reasons why Labour was on 25% at the dissolution and were they to win, I'm quite sure that those same reasons - magnified under the focus paid to governments - would see them polling into the teens within a year.
My guess would be that that very prospect will be why Labour loses - but the polls might be right and the activists reporting their feelings might all be wrong.
Whatever happens the next few years could be nearly ungovernable for whichever coalition of chaos wins on Thursday. Over the last few years there have been tons of times when, for a few days, we've been convinced there was about to be a Chinese crash to make 2008 look small - what if that does happen in the middle of Brexit negotiations? With a minority or small majority governing party beset by internal splits, as both parties would be?
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
Two minutes of someone banging on about baby-eaters is enough to turn anybody into a Shy Tory.
There are arguments for voting Labour, but lectures about morality from the party that invaded Iraq then wrecked the economy aren't foremost among them, it must be said.
That was the War Criminal Party and the Greedy Bankers Party
Corbyn does not look anything like those
No, I think you'll find it was exactly the Labour Party. Own it.
That is very true. Don't want to sound disrespectful but I've heard foodbanks being discussed way more amongst my middle than working class friends. What Labour thinks people want to hear and what people actually want to hear are two very different things in my experience.
I've never understood the left's hatred of food banks. Surely looking after those in society who have very little should be exactly what they support?
There are actions backing up the talk of panic from CCHQ. For example people were going to be diverted from previously regarded safe south london seats on polling day to more marginal ones.. this has now been abandoned.
Not sure I understand this post? Who is supposedly panicking and diverting resources?
I cant say anymore sorry.. but its resource thatbwas going to go from a supposed safe Tory south london seat to one that needs help ie a marginal but they cant now because thatbseat isnt as safe as they thought.
Can see Labour doing well in London, but struggling to think what safe seat you are talking about? Maybe Battersea? Gavin Barwell might also be on the wrong side of a narrow defeat this time.
My instinct tells me that Theresa is not going to get an increased majority and that we are entering a period of very unstable Government. I am pleased that my Canadian trip was last month when I received a good exchange rate (1.75) as I expect that on Friday there will be a blood bath on the markets.
The irony is that Theresa is by far the best for dealing with this security crisis as labour would just not be able to take the hard decisions needed.
Still we are where we are and it looks increasingly likely to me that we are heading for a soft Brexit
Original questioner asked 'why it isn't reported more prominently in the UK press'. The answer is probably because it would undermine a well-selling stance of the two highest circulation newspapers in the country, where the lack of such stories has an impact.
Maybe it's because 130 imams isn't that many? They found more than 500 to protest against gay marriage, after all.
Reminds me of certain people in my office during the EU ref...
I've just had a chat with a member of our team in the office. She was intending to vote Tory because of Brexit - having seen nothing of the campaign. Two minutes on the other things that bother her about society and she's now going to stay at home.
Morality works. People can see right and wrong when you point it out to them, because in their gut they know that much of what this government has been doing to the sick and disabled is wrong at a basic level.
Bet you she is still going to vote Tory.
Two minutes of someone banging on about baby-eaters is enough to turn anybody into a Shy Tory.
I think so. People like RochdalePioneers and Travel Junkie mobilise Tory votes very effectively, I would think.
Women in particular would hear hectoring, mansplaining and narcissism, and recoil from it. You can't have a proper conversation with anyone like that and whatever such a person thinks you tend to want to think the opposite.
There are arguments for voting Labour, but lectures about morality from the party that invaded Iraq then wrecked the economy aren't foremost among them, it must be said.
The problem is that the left works on a completely different moral compass to the right - look at Haidt's 'moral foundations' theory. So a completely unimpeachable argument from someone on the left has absolutely no effect on someone from the right. Other than making them nod, smile, pretend to agree - and then carry on regardless.
Mr. NorthWales, I forget the number, alas, but the octo-lemur, admittedly whilst laughing, predicted a strong victory for the Conservatives. I think the majority was 102.
Hard to know whether to take them seriously, but they did get the EU referendum spot on.
Mr. Sandpit, yeah, the race seems later this year than previously, kicks off at 7pm UK time. Ladbrokes still hasn't put the markets (except winner) up yet.
if she fails to deliver a majority of less than 50, then frankly, people in her own party and beyond are going to ask, ‘what the hell was the point in that?’”
if she fails to deliver a majority of less than 50, then frankly, people in her own party and beyond are going to ask, ‘what the hell was the point in that?’”
If she fails to deliver a majority under 50 then we are in an alternate reality.
Comments
Interestingly I was chatting with a chap from East Renfrewshire at the weekend - he thinks SLAB will beat SCON into 3rd - not sure where this leaves SCON and their Barcharts.
Trouble is its like a supertanker and they cant turn it around now.
Its sweaty palms and brown trousers time formthe capt of the ship
Harsh..
https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/872016192243994624
you want an economy where its who you know and to get any decent money you need the bank of mum and dad. you want to destroy any kind of competition. you want a monopoly solely for your children whether it be jobs, education, healthcare, housing and so on.
Quite what is going on, the gods only know. I assume that they're laughing.
in 2015, 91% of people voted.
in 2017, 82% say they are certain to vote.
18-25s
in 2015, 42% of people voted
in 2017, 54% are certain to vot.
conservatives
in 2015, 89% of conservatives voted
in 2017, 82% of conservatives certain to vote
labour
in 2015, 69% of labour voted
in 2017, 76% of labour certain to vote.
But as a Labour supporter - thought I might get it on record just once that I think Tories can tell right from wrong...
We can then all get back to normal. What so many people do not realise is that much of the governments work has slowed or is on hold because so many resources have been diverted to Brexit. We neeed to get back to normal management, whether its minority , coalition or one party with a small majority.
Reckitt Bencksier to sponsor Labour Campaign
Full Marx Solution - Kills Lice and Parasites in 5 Minutes
http://www.boots.com/full-marks-solution-5-minute-treatment-300ml-10069258
Receiving the call telling her she was unwell?
If Labour does win, can you imagine what ministerial questions will be like? Labour has done pretty well this campaign, not least because campaigning is what the likes of Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell have done their whole political life. It is their home turf and it's where they're most comfortable (and conversely, it's where May is clearly least comfortable). But there were good reasons why Labour was on 25% at the dissolution and were they to win, I'm quite sure that those same reasons - magnified under the focus paid to governments - would see them polling into the teens within a year.
My guess would be that that very prospect will be why Labour loses - but the polls might be right and the activists reporting their feelings might all be wrong.
I suspect they'll all go very quiet on June 9th. If Facebook was any guide we'd be heading for a Labour landslide.....
Instead they spend their time throwing crap at the other side like school yard bullies.
The irony is that Theresa is by far the best for dealing with this security crisis as labour would just not be able to take the hard decisions needed.
Still we are where we are and it looks increasingly likely to me that we are heading for a soft Brexit
Women in particular would hear hectoring, mansplaining and narcissism, and recoil from it. You can't have a proper conversation with anyone like that and whatever such a person thinks you tend to want to think the opposite.
There are arguments for voting Labour, but lectures about morality from the party that invaded Iraq then wrecked the economy aren't foremost among them, it must be said.
I go for 5% and mid point of 320 up 15 for Tory seats
'Hello Pot? It's Kettle. You're black'
'Administrator Tom Logan won over his politically wavering colleagues by warning them not to be selfish evil bastards who hate the poor and needy."
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/man-sure-workmates-will-vote-labour-after-saying-theyre-scum-otherwise-20170606128892
Corbyn does not look anything like those
We are growing into their levels of spending
1) You care more about your party than you do your country. That says a lot about who you are to the core as a human being.
2) Theresa May is the worst leader of the tory party I can ever remember (Thatcher onwards). She has no charisma, no personality and on every policy issue shes been on the wrong side of the debate.
3) She was a terrible home secretary. She cut police numbers, she froze their pay while rich people got a tax cut.
4) Theresa May will be prime minister come friday but hardly anyone will give a shit. Nobody likes her, she's been found out and just 1992 and 2005; its the last election the tories will win. Labour will build up votes in the wrong places but change will be in the air come 2022 because slowly but slowly people are becoming sick and tired of cuts for everyone else and benefits going to the rich and pensioners (just because they fucking vote)
I CARE ABOUT MY COUNTRY. you might care but not as much as you care about the self interest of your tory party.
500,000 ....
Whatever else does or does not happen, Brexit will happen.
I can believe the Tories are up in North but nae chance in Leith. It would be a turnout question - the posh twats in the million pound homes come out and vote Tory but would the unwashed huddled masses of Leith troop to the polling places?
See, I've managed to insult both demographics there.
Mr. NorthWales, I disagree. Con to increase votes and seats. Not to staggering proportions, but a sort of 2005 (maybe slightly better) Lab victory level.
The blues have a massive lead with the elderly, who vote. The reds have a massive lead with the young, who do not. And are fewer in number.
Quick question. The various examples of terminal cancer patients being "cured" and dying in penury. The terminally ill patients who posthumously overturn their "fit for work" judgements. The disabled being left to sit in their own filth having had their motability car and wheelchair and home help taken away. You alright with that? I clearly disagree with you on economics, but as a basic issue of humanity I want to hear you either defend it or decry it.
By contrast Corbyn is just an old fashioned peacenik who wouldn't rattle anyone's cage. If it wasn't for his crap backroom staff I might have voted for him. As it is I'm going to give this on a miss.
https://twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status/872014707640676352
As an aside, I have rather more sympathy for that error, which was presumably a verbal slip - she must have meant to say 'million' rather than 'thousand' - than her next guess of £80m which was either a number just picked out of the air or dreadfully poor mental maths. True, £300m would probably still be some way short of actually paying for 10,000 new officers but it would at least be something derivable from actual salaries (albeit ignoring a whole load of other costs).
https://twitter.com/edinburghcastle/status/869516345020489728
Whatever happens the next few years could be nearly ungovernable for whichever coalition of chaos wins on Thursday. Over the last few years there have been tons of times when, for a few days, we've been convinced there was about to be a Chinese crash to make 2008 look small - what if that does happen in the middle of Brexit negotiations? With a minority or small majority governing party beset by internal splits, as both parties would be?
https://twitter.com/jamesreedyp/status/872017346600333313
Demand for foodbanks is a bad thing.
The supply of foodbanks is a good thing.
Surely no-one disagrees.
I had an opportunity in Qatar a few months ago, very pleased it didn't come off now.
UAE is still okay, am looking forward to election night party and then the usually-excellent Canadian Grand Prix at the weekend
Hard to know whether to take them seriously, but they did get the EU referendum spot on.
Mr. Sandpit, yeah, the race seems later this year than previously, kicks off at 7pm UK time. Ladbrokes still hasn't put the markets (except winner) up yet.