I thought we agreed during the referendum that the express was a load of old bollocks?
Generally it is. But one of the sad aspects of the this whole Islamic-terror-in-the-West-thing is that you have to go to the most obscure, silly or extreme of sources to get the truth, as the authorities are often quite keen to conceal the facts, as we know from Cologne etc
What makes this resonate with me is the mention of motorbikes. We know the attacker was wearing motorbike leathers, and a helmet.
Was this a team of motorbike-riding jihadists, did the culprit have accomplices, or colleagues who chickened out?
Of course it could just have been tourists who got scared and ran away, and fair enough.
It doesn't help that the police are being so bashful with the basic facts.
Agree about that, there is definitely something wrong when the police have this fellow in custody and aren't naming him. It just lends to an air of suspicion around the whole thing.
'Fly the flag for Team GB. It may well be the last hurrah for ‘Britain’
..Now, I try to explain some idea of Britain to my seven year-old daughter, and can’t quite manage. Scotland, she knows: it’s the place that had to choose between yes and no, where her tartan T-shirt came from. Wales is a cinch: she was born there, she supported its football team through the chain of wonders at Euro 2016, and it’s where her extended family are from. England is where she lives: the country that defines not just our small patch of the West Country, but the thriving, cosmopolitan place down the road in Bristol. But Britain? Sooner or later, I may have to bow to the inevitable and play her Billy Bragg’s prophetic Take Down the Union Jack, which bluntly cuts to the quick: “Britain isn’t cool you know, its really not that great / It’s not a proper country, it doesn’t even have a patron saint / It’s just an economic union that’s passed its sell-by date.”
It really has. It’s also a fading signifier for pretensions to global importance that Brexit has decisively done for. It’s the name of the nonexistent empire referred to in the titles of all those dodgy honours. It’s somewhere cited by politicians – witness Michael Howard’s “British dream”, Ed Miliband’s “British promise”, and David Cameron’s tributes to something he called “the British spirit” – whose words fail to ring true, not just because patriotism of the Westminster variety is usually a put-on, but because the imagined country to which they refer barely exists anymore.'
He's wrong. Brexit makes Scottish independence simultaneously more desirable (for many) and also politically and economically much harder to achieve. Smarter Nationalists have already realised this. I suspect you have, too.
EU membership makes it easier for unions to break up. It reduces the cost of secession, if the seceding region is given access to the Single Market, and grants to ease the accession process.
Conversely, not being part of the EU imposes a much stiffer penalty on the region that secedes. I think that if Scotland doesn't vote for independence within the next ten years, then the Union will be strengthened. Simply, leaving the Union won't be realistic.
I thought we agreed during the referendum that the express was a load of old bollocks?
Generally it is. But one of the sad aspects of the this whole Islamic-terror-in-the-West-thing is that you have to go to the most obscure, silly or extreme of sources to get the truth, as the authorities are often quite keen to conceal the facts, as we know from Cologne etc
What makes this resonate with me is the mention of motorbikes. We know the attacker was wearing motorbike leathers, and a helmet.
Was this a team of motorbike-riding jihadists, did the culprit have accomplices, or colleagues who chickened out?
Of course it could just have been tourists who got scared and ran away, and fair enough.
It doesn't help that the police are being so bashful with the basic facts.
Those actions don't sound suspicious to me!
Nor me. If I was there, and had a bike, I'd get on it and get the F out, however I could.
BUT I remember when they told us the Nice attacker was a "lone wolf, nutter"etc - turned out he had accomplices and had been planning it for months.
Seems to be a reccuring theme, get a line out there quickly, 'lone wolf/nutter etc' to play down the attack, then release more information when everyone has forgotten it and moved on.
Miss Plato, to 'reassure the public' will be the line used.
It could actually just be a lunatic. But if it were, then one would've expected a name/description to have emerged by now. If it's a terrorist, there could be reasons not to publicise his identity as yet. But then, if it were, flying the mental illness flag (which can't be especially pleasant for those who are mentally ill) is misleading at best.
Exactly, I don't mind the coppers not saying anything as 'lines of enquiry are followed' - but jumping to say it's mental illness is just wrong. We do get occasional terrible incidents where someone goes bananas without any political or religious agenda - thankfully not very many.
Most people with mental illness are more likely to harm themselves or their immediate family than random strangers. It is not unknown of course. But without knowing what is behind this latest sad incident there does seem to be a meme developing which seems to suggest that terrorists are not motivated by some ideology but are only acting as they do because of mental illness. This seems to me to be a mischaracterization: a person with mental issues may be easier to radicalize and persuade to doing such acts but the motivation behind it is not the illness but the ideology. By focusing on the former, we risk ignoring the latter.
People with mental illness should not become the latest scapegoats because we do not want to put the blame on the terrorist ideology and those who propagate it.
At any event, let us hope that this incident is not a terrorist one. It is quite sad enough as it is.
I know a couple of guys with schizophrenia - they get enough stigma without adding more. They experienced significant hostility when the media went through a psycho-killer phase a few years ago.
I'm of the view that terrorist organisations seek out the easily led/mentally ill as useful cannon-fodder. After all, why lose your generals when you can groom the expendable and gullible? As a percentage of the population - I'd imagine they're more prevalent than the master manipulators/sociopaths.
What most terrorists have in common is youth. It's far easier to incite under 25's to kill than people over that age.
Lab on 28% - am I right in thinking this figure, or there about, appears to be consistent with other polls? – Their base camp, with a mountain to climb.
They will do well to maintain 28% with Jezza in charge.
Quite. They scored 30% with Miliband and 29% with Brown. Jeremy is probably below 25% after a campaign where he only targets his existing supporters and think the biggest issues facing Britain are refugees (why don't we let them all in?) and Palestine.
Labour actually polled 31.2% under Miliband and 29.7% under Brown on a GB basis -which is what the polls almost invariably measure. You have quoted UK figures.
I thought we agreed during the referendum that the express was a load of old bollocks?
Generally it is. But one of the sad aspects of the this whole Islamic-terror-in-the-West-thing is that you have to go to the most obscure, silly or extreme of sources to get the truth, as the authorities are often quite keen to conceal the facts, as we know from Cologne etc
What makes this resonate with me is the mention of motorbikes. We know the attacker was wearing motorbike leathers, and a helmet.
Was this a team of motorbike-riding jihadists, did the culprit have accomplices, or colleagues who chickened out?
Of course it could just have been tourists who got scared and ran away, and fair enough.
It doesn't help that the police are being so bashful with the basic facts.
Those actions don't sound suspicious to me!
Nor me. If I was there, and had a bike, I'd get on it and get the F out, however I could.
BUT I remember when they told us the Nice attacker was a "lone wolf, nutter"etc - turned out he had accomplices and had been planning it for months.
Seems to be a reccuring theme, get a line out there quickly, 'lone wolf/nutter etc' to play down the attack, then release more information when everyone has forgotten it and moved on.
It happened with the Cologne sex attacks as well. In the immediate aftermath it was a few incidents, now there are over a thousand reports and investigations but not a single conviction because the people have forgotten.
This Russel Square attack seems very strange, at least the coverage of it. Seems that information which could be released isn't being.
I have to say I'm against this 'don't name/mention the terrorist as it gives them publicity etc' though. The only way to operate a open democracy is if the public has the facts if they are available.
Tbh I see no cover-up. An arrest was made at the scene, so (a) there was not much point in revealing details, and (b) sub judice. The media are reporting eye witness accounts -- probably more so than normal.
This Russel Square attack seems very strange, at least the coverage of it. Seems that information which could be released isn't being.
I have to say I'm against this 'don't name/mention the terrorist as it gives them publicity etc' though. The only way to operate a open democracy is if the public has the facts if they are available.
Tbh I see no cover-up. An arrest was made at the scene, so (a) there was not much point in revealing details, and (b) sub judice. The media are reporting eye witness accounts -- probably more so than normal.
I can't help wondering what those 12.9% are thinking.
Clearly there is residual Cuban support for the GOP in Florida especially among older voters but the demographic trends in the state are decisive and make terrible reading for the Republicans.
This Russel Square attack seems very strange, at least the coverage of it. Seems that information which could be released isn't being.
I have to say I'm against this 'don't name/mention the terrorist as it gives them publicity etc' though. The only way to operate a open democracy is if the public has the facts if they are available.
Tbh I see no cover-up. An arrest was made at the scene, so (a) there was not much point in revealing details, and (b) sub judice. The media are reporting eye witness accounts -- probably more so than normal.
You would have thought people would have learned from the Glasgow bin lorry episode not to rush to judgement.
I could point out those who were convinced the police were withholding information because the driver was Muslim.
This Russel Square attack seems very strange, at least the coverage of it. Seems that information which could be released isn't being.
I have to say I'm against this 'don't name/mention the terrorist as it gives them publicity etc' though. The only way to operate a open democracy is if the public has the facts if they are available.
Tbh I see no cover-up. An arrest was made at the scene, so (a) there was not much point in revealing details, and (b) sub judice. The media are reporting eye witness accounts -- probably more so than normal.
This Russel Square attack seems very strange, at least the coverage of it. Seems that information which could be released isn't being.
I have to say I'm against this 'don't name/mention the terrorist as it gives them publicity etc' though. The only way to operate a open democracy is if the public has the facts if they are available.
Tbh I see no cover-up. An arrest was made at the scene, so (a) there was not much point in revealing details, and (b) sub judice. The media are reporting eye witness accounts -- probably more so than normal.
You would have thought people would have learned from the Glasgow bin lorry episode not to rush to judgement.
I could point out those who were convinced the police were withholding information because the driver was Muslim.
I still don't think they've told us the religion of the bin lorry driver. Why does he cover up continue!!!!!?!
Miss Plato, to 'reassure the public' will be the line used.
It could actually just be a lunatic. But if it were, then one would've expected a name/description to have emerged by now. If it's a terrorist, there could be reasons not to publicise his identity as yet. But then, if it were, flying the mental illness flag (which can't be especially pleasant for those who are mentally ill) is misleading at best.
Exactly, I don't mind the coppers not saying anything as 'lines of enquiry are followed' - but jumping to say it's mental illness is just wrong. We do get occasional terrible incidents where someone goes bananas without any political or religious agenda - thankfully not very many.
Most people with mental illness are more likely to harm themselves or their immediate family than random strangers. It is not unknown of course. But without knowing what is behind this latest sad incident there does seem to be a meme developing which seems to suggest that terrorists are not motivated by some ideology but are only acting as they do because of mental illness. This seems to me to be a mischaracterization: a person with mental issues may be easier to radicalize and persuade to doing such acts but the motivation behind it is not the illness but the ideology. By focusing on the former, we risk ignoring the latter.
People with mental illness should not become the latest scapegoats because we do not want to put the blame on the terrorist ideology and those who propagate it.
At any event, let us hope that this incident is not a terrorist one. It is quite sad enough as it is.
I know a couple of guys with schizophrenia - they get enough stigma without adding more. They experienced significant hostility when the media went through a psycho-killer phase a few years ago.
I'm of the view that terrorist organisations seek out the easily led/mentally ill as useful cannon-fodder. After all, why lose your generals when you can groom the expendable and gullible? As a percentage of the population - I'd imagine they're more prevalent than the master manipulators/sociopaths.
What most terrorists have in common is youth. It's far easier to incite under 25's to kill than people over that age.
More than one friend of mine has suggested the solution is sport and shagging.
Young men are pumped full of testosterone and energy. That will find an outlet, somehow.
This Russel Square attack seems very strange, at least the coverage of it. Seems that information which could be released isn't being.
I have to say I'm against this 'don't name/mention the terrorist as it gives them publicity etc' though. The only way to operate a open democracy is if the public has the facts if they are available.
Tbh I see no cover-up. An arrest was made at the scene, so (a) there was not much point in revealing details, and (b) sub judice. The media are reporting eye witness accounts -- probably more so than normal.
You would have thought people would have learned from the Glasgow bin lorry episode not to rush to judgement.
I could point out those who were convinced the police were withholding information because the driver was Muslim.
I still don't think they've told us the religion of the bin lorry driver. Why does he cover up continue!!!!!?!
Well you know what sectarianism is like in Scotland.
May has no popular mandate. The British don't like being bossed around by unelected busy bodies. May needs to call an election asap.
Strange as it might seem the only topic of conversation in the Dog and Duck is the philosophical concept of a Prime Ministerial mandate in a Parliamentary system. Not.
Election speculation is something that excites journalists and commentators but not the vast bulk of folk. Nobody is clamouring for an election.
Because people expect the result to be the same as the last one, so why bother? As you say. The detail of majorities etc. doesn't concern people.
I suspect a lot of people find elections a pain in the butt.
Unelected PMs like May and Brown, you bet.
As well as Major, Callaghan, Douglas-Home, Macmillan and Chamberlain.
@BJO - an economically left-wing party might eventually win in the UK, but not one that is unpatriotic and sees being white and English as part of the problem.
The article mentions Texas as having a large Hispanic voter population. I suspect it will remain highly favourable to the GOP but is there an outside chance that if the Hispanic vote deserts Trump that Texas could be far more competitive than it ought to be?
Texas will not be in play this cycle or the next unless the Trump/GOP implosion is of epic proportions. More long term in 2024/28 then yes.
However the hispanic demographic time-bomb continues to badly damage the GOP and has done so since Bush II left office. New Mexico is now a blue state and Nevada and Colorado are heading there too. Arizona is competitive this cycle and the diminishing Cuban influence in Florida is clear.
Additionally even those states with smaller but growing hispanic populations in Ohio, Virginia and North Carolina may tip a tight race. Pissing off minority populations is a dumb arse strategy for the GOP, they knew it from 08/12 and have done nothing to address the problem, save make it worse.
But Texas has gone Democrat before in 1960, 1964 and 1968 as well as most recently 1976. Interesting that they won even in close election years like 1960 and 1968.
Telegraph are reporting an eyewitness who says it was a "chubby white man".
Sounds the epitome of what you'd expect from an Islamic terrorist. Think the balance of probability is that this wasn't terror related.
It does sound like a crazy person at the moment. Hopefully they lock him up and throw away the key.
If he is seriously mentally disturbed I hope he gets the treatment he needs, if his condition is such that he needs to be monitored in a secure unit for his safety and that of others then fine but we need to better distinguish between those who make the wrong moral decisions and those whose moral framework is seriously distorted or disturbed. The effect of your action may deprive each of their liberty but the rationale for doing so ought to be different.
@BJO - an economically left-wing party might eventually win in the UK, but not one that is unpatriotic and sees being white and English as part of the problem.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
But Texas has gone Democrat before in 1960, 1964 and 1968 as well as most recently 1976. Interesting that they won even in close election years like 1960 and 1968.
Some general points: being white (or, indeed, fat) doesn't make you either Muslim or non-Muslim.
On Glasgow, that's fair comment. Then again, the Nice assumption proved correct.
The approach of authorities to Rotherham, Cologne and Dave's murder spree haven't exactly filled people with confidence. The police putting out psychiatric opinions [the anti-terrorism police must be bloody well-trained to work out a chap's psychological situation whilst electrocuting him] so rapidly whilst giving almost no other information seems a bit off.
Anyway, we'll see. Assuming we ever learn anything about the chap.
OK, shut it all down now. St Jeremy has spoken. It's things like this that make me believe that he is in fact a Lizard Person. Humans only invented speech to make it easier to gossip, slander and speculate.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
I think the reason for the face veils is to avoid those police being identified, otherwise they could be targeted.
This Russel Square attack seems very strange, at least the coverage of it. Seems that information which could be released isn't being.
I have to say I'm against this 'don't name/mention the terrorist as it gives them publicity etc' though. The only way to operate a open democracy is if the public has the facts if they are available.
Tbh I see no cover-up. An arrest was made at the scene, so (a) there was not much point in revealing details, and (b) sub judice. The media are reporting eye witness accounts -- probably more so than normal.
You would have thought people would have learned from the Glasgow bin lorry episode not to rush to judgement.
I could point out those who were convinced the police were withholding information because the driver was Muslim.
I still don't think they've told us the religion of the bin lorry driver. Why does he cover up continue!!!!!?!
this incident does have one thing clearly in common with Glasgow Bin Lorry Guy. The police could end speculation right now by releasing his name, or at very least describing him, age, race, background, etc.
FFS they have him under arrest. What is the point in denying us this info? It just adds to the paranoia and anxiety. Stupid.
My faith in the police seems to drop on a weekly basis.
This Russel Square attack seems very strange, at least the coverage of it. Seems that information which could be released isn't being.
I have to say I'm against this 'don't name/mention the terrorist as it gives them publicity etc' though. The only way to operate a open democracy is if the public has the facts if they are available.
Tbh I see no cover-up. An arrest was made at the scene, so (a) there was not much point in revealing details, and (b) sub judice. The media are reporting eye witness accounts -- probably more so than normal.
You do know how sub judice works, don't you? No, you don't.
London is a violent place. As I've posted before, if you compare Russell Square with the Battersea stabbings yesterday, most of the cover-up theory evaporates because we have more information here. And yes, I do know about sub judice.
There were two "multiple person" stabbing reported in London yesterday evening. One, reported by the media without even a hint of anything terrorist related and this one. I am guessing the media also jumped to a particular conclusion on this incident compared to the other which sounded like gang violence.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
It looks like the Police are basically becoming an army (in London anyway)
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
I totally agree - I don't find it reassuring at all. And armed cops hanging around Victoria talking to each other as they wave around assault weapons doesn't help either.
Ditto forces that allow uniforms to include bomber jackets and baseball caps.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
I think the reason for the face veils is to avoid those police being identified, otherwise they could be targeted.
That's the same for any police officer, customs officer, BTP officer or firearms response unit anywhere in the UK.
Are they all to wear veils?
I want to be able to identity who's walking around London with ultimate force. Experience shows that they ain't always 100% honest when things go wrong.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
It looks like the Police are basically becoming an army (in London anyway)
Only difference is the coppers MP5s' are only semis, unlike the SF versions.
More than one friend of mine has suggested the solution is sport and shagging.
Young men are pumped full of testosterone and energy. That will find an outlet, somehow.
Billy Connolly suggested that rather than use the military we should send out a few jumbo jets full of ladies of, ahem, negotiable affection. Whores rather than missiles and bombs.
Shame they took the video down off off YouTube because it really was very funny.
Is that in part due to tens of thousands of new members paying to take part in their annual leadership contests, or would that be separate? Either way financially Labour are apparently in a much better place than a few years ago.
I doubt if most IRA or loyalist killers were mentally disturbed. There were plainly psychopaths and sadists in those organisations, but most seem to have been pretty rational to me.
Anyone who carries out a random knife (or gun) attack could be described as mentally ill because most people would say it is not a rational act. This should not be used as an excuse for lenient punishment. Everyone should be held responsible for their own actions.
Is that in part due to tens of thousands of new members paying to take part in their annual leadership contests, or would that be separate? Either way financially Labour are apparently in a much better place than a few years ago.
Possibly. I also speculate that quite a few Tory donors were sending their donations to Vote Leave.
So the murderer is dark-skinned, white, chubby, late 20s, psychiatrically disturbed, African in shorts, not in shorts, and acting alone with accomplices.
People are terrible eye witnesses. This has been proven time and time again.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
I totally agree - I don't find it reassuring at all. And armed cops hanging around Victoria talking to each other as they wave around assault weapons doesn't help either.
Ditto forces that allow uniforms to include bomber jackets and baseball caps.
Yeah, where it ends is them putting themselves in a position of authority over us, rather than acting as public servants.
I am probably as worried about them loosing off rounds by mistake as a lone wolf attack, and I steer well clear of any armed police.
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
'Fly the flag for Team GB. It may well be the last hurrah for ‘Britain’
...
It really has. It’s also a fading signifier for pretensions to global importance that Brexit has decisively done for. It’s the name of the nonexistent empire referred to in the titles of all those dodgy honours. It’s somewhere cited by politicians – witness Michael Howard’s “British dream”, Ed Miliband’s “British promise”, and David Cameron’s tributes to something he called “the British spirit” – whose words fail to ring true, not just because patriotism of the Westminster variety is usually a put-on, but because the imagined country to which they refer barely exists anymore.'
I've never understood how Brexit destroys Britain's "pretentions to global significance" - what is the argument for it?
The end-game of continued EU membership, in the very long run, is that Britain becomes an adjunct of a larger political federation. Ultimately, possibly even without its own currency or control over national budget - this at least is the end-game that European partners would have preferred as well as the more europhile politicians here, and is a plausible outcome despite opt-outs due to the "ratchet" effect of European integration (goes forward but not back) and the manner in which economic logic of deeper integration can drive the political integration and vice versa.
Once you embed your economy deeply into Europe, a single currency becomes attractive... once you have that, you want it to function effectively, so need to pool fiscal powers... then more power in Brussels starts to require more democratic accountability, so you need something more like an elected government there and less like an international organisation... then that government will naturally promote deeper economic integration, and which encourages more pooling, and so on.
In that scenario Britain effectively ceases to exist as an international actor in its own right. Even if Britain were never pulled in so deep - and I'd argue there would ultimately be times when Britain is just one economic or financial crisis away from having euro membership appear attractive - it ends up as an uncomfortably semi-detached member of a larger political union in which it is an increasingly poor fit. Is that something a "globally significant" nation would view as a desirable pathway?
I get why some people want to be part of a European federation. I get why some people would prefer Britain "half in, half out" as it has been since Maastricht. I don't get why those courses are viewed as making Britain a "global player" whereas standing on its own feet, pursuing a sui generis relationship with the EU and its own interests elsewhere in the world is somehow a self-sunset on having any role in the world.
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
Totally agree, it has been a grim few years for us savers.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
The best odds against a General Election next year are 7/2, from either Betfred or Corals, which appear meagre to me compared with the very much more generous odds of 25/1 available for both 2018 (Betfred) and 2019 (188BET). These two years can therefore be combined to produce winning odds of 11/1. Fair value I believe, but DYOR.
So the murderer is dark-skinned, white, chubby, late 20s, psychiatrically disturbed, African in shorts, not in shorts, and acting alone with accomplices.
Eye witnesses are unreliable. It is only last week that a lone shooter turned into 3 or 4 because witnesses did not realise the men running with guns were the police.
Most Labour MPs will back May in a 'soft BREXIT' deal to spite Corbyn even if a number of Tory MPs oppose her and demand a 'hard BREXIT' so May should get a deal through the Commons without the need for an election to increase her majority. She should therefore be able to wait until 2020
On topic, there may well be a certain ironic mirror to all this in that Heath only got the original European Communities Act through parliament due to Labour rebels counteracting the dissidents on his own side.
Yes rebel Labour MPs could be crucial for May
I believe that it was Liberal MPs who helped Heath get his legislation approved. I don't think he had Labour support beyond the initial vote in Autumn 1971 when circa 70 Labour MPs supported EEC membership.
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
Agreed.
How much better it would be if the B of E raised interest rates by 0.5% "to cool the fast growing economy".
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
Totally agree, it has been a grim few years for us savers.
Not if your savings are in shares, especially US equities.
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
Agreed.
How much better it would be if the B of E raised interest rates by 0.5% "to cool the fast growing economy".
I'd be happy - but think of the screams and wails from those with mortgages. I wonder how many have been using the last few years to pay down housing debts - not nearly enough.
Anyone who carries out a random knife (or gun) attack could be described as mentally ill because most people would say it is not a rational act. This should not be used as an excuse for lenient punishment. Everyone should be held responsible for their own actions.
Rubbish. It depends on the mental illness. Someone with severe psychosis has no idea what they are doing, nor even any inkling that there is something wrong with them.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
It looks like the Police are basically becoming an army (in London anyway)
I am concerned at the approach/trend, but the numbers are still small. T
On topic, unless events intervene with a very good reason, I don't think May will go short of 2020. Difficulty getting Brexit through parliament might be an 'event' that provides mandate, means and motive to go to the country early (particularly if it's the Labour / LD peers being awkward) but there aren't many such possible events and those which there are won't necessarily come about by any means. And not competing in constituencies based off 20-year old data would be helpful too.
Sensible for all parties to contingency plan though.
As a non-Conservative, I can obviously see the cheap advantage and thrills a snap election and a landslide would bring (and the subsequent problems).
My impression of the formation of the new Conservative Government was that it was predicated on three things:
1) The purging of Cameron/Osborne 2) The desire to return to solid Conservative governance albeit, it seems to me, from a strongly interventionist activist Heseltine-type stance. 3) The process of exiting the EU - May has put the likes of Davis, Fox and Johnson where they are for a reason - one part of it is for them to be human shields for her if it all goes wrong and second, to take the process forward.
I can quite understand given the disparate aims of LEAVE, nobody was going to trigger Article 50 on the day after the referendum (I thought Cameron might as a final act of spite) but say six months to set up the organisation, do some more thinking and reach a collective position doesn't seem unreasonable so I'd be looking at fairly early next year with a view to complete exit by early 2019 and an election to follow.
I agree. I think it makes sense to have Brexit concluded by the GE. The last-ditchers will no doubt still complain and UKIP will no doubt try to make what they can of that but in a post-Brexit world, their role will change and that will be more a subsidiary string to their electoral bow. Besides, if Corbyn or similar is still running Labour, there's enough fear from that threat to drag recalcitrant Tories back into the fold.
It's only if Parliament starts playing silly over Article 50 or other associated legislation that there becomes a case for an early dissolution (and, for that matter, the likely means for it).
But if polls are anything like they are now I would not expect Labour to facilitate a dissolution. May would have to engineer a No Confidence Vote.
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
Totally agree, it has been a grim few years for us savers.
Not if your savings are in shares, especially US equities.
I've had a spectacular year - at least, by recent standards. Normally I only look at returns annually in December, but my IFA rang me to share some personal news and I thought I'd ask.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
It looks like the Police are basically becoming an army (in London anyway)
I am concerned at the approach/trend, but the numbers are still small. T
There are fewer armed police in London than in 2008 according to the Spectator.
For followers of Scottish sub-samples, yet another sub sample to have the Tories comfortably in second place.
Caveat sample size 161
SNP 50, Con 25, Lab 13, LD 5, UKIP 3
The detailed data tables throw up some caveats about the headline 14% lead , Before elimination of DK and WNV and certainty to vote the Conservative lead was actually down from 10% in the previous poll to 7% in this poll . After adjustments the headline lead went up from 12% to 14% . As often the adjustments make more difference than changes in the raw data .
Name the last General Election where the adjustments over-estimated the Tory lead.
Possibly 2010 - but certainly 1983 and February 1974.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
I think the reason for the face veils is to avoid those police being identified, otherwise they could be targeted.
That's the same for any police officer, customs officer, BTP officer or firearms response unit anywhere in the UK.
Are they all to wear veils?
I want to be able to identity who's walking around London with ultimate force. Experience shows that they ain't always 100% honest when things go wrong.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
It looks like the Police are basically becoming an army (in London anyway)
I am concerned at the approach/trend, but the numbers are still small. T
Lab on 28% - am I right in thinking this figure, or there about, appears to be consistent with other polls? – Their base camp, with a mountain to climb.
They will do well to maintain 28% with Jezza in charge.
Quite. They scored 30% with Miliband and 29% with Brown. Jeremy is probably below 25% after a campaign where he only targets his existing supporters and think the biggest issues facing Britain are refugees (why don't we let them all in?) and Palestine.
Labour actually polled 31.2% under Miliband and 29.7% under Brown on a GB basis -which is what the polls almost invariably measure. You have quoted UK figures.
of the total electorate:
2015 - 30.4 % 2010 - 29.0 %
Let's all compare like with like instead of doing corrections behind the scenes.
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
Totally agree, it has been a grim few years for us savers.
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together with, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
Off topic, I'm a right-winger, but what's with the macho style robocop outfits of police in London together, inexplicably to me, paramilitary style face veils?
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
I think the reason for the face veils is to avoid those police being identified, otherwise they could be targeted.
That's the same for any police officer, customs officer, BTP officer or firearms response unit anywhere in the UK.
Are they all to wear veils?
I want to be able to identity who's walking around London with ultimate force. Experience shows that they ain't always 100% honest when things go wrong.
Don't all police display a number?
They are supposed to.
Which is why the face veil is silly - not only is it nasty, it doesn't prevent a police officer from being identified by a terrorist.
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
Agreed.
How much better it would be if the B of E raised interest rates by 0.5% "to cool the fast growing economy".
I'd be happy - but think of the screams and wails from those with mortgages. I wonder how many have been using the last few years to pay down housing debts - not nearly enough.
I did. Missed out on a fairly good investment opportunity in the process though!
Interesting despite the near unanimity in the media that there'll be a rate cut the £ is strengthening against the Euro. I hope they don't cut as it seems a waste of the very limited 'bullets they have left.
Totally agree, it has been a grim few years for us savers.
And especially those of us wot use their savings to fund their trainspotting habit
'Fly the flag for Team GB. It may well be the last hurrah for ‘Britain’
...
It really has. It’s also a fading signifier for pretensions to global importance that Brexit has decisively done for. It’s the name of the nonexistent empire referred to in the titles of all those dodgy honours. It’s somewhere cited by politicians – witness Michael Howard’s “British dream”, Ed Miliband’s “British promise”, and David Cameron’s tributes to something he called “the British spirit” – whose words fail to ring true, not just because patriotism of the Westminster variety is usually a put-on, but because the imagined country to which they refer barely exists anymore.'
I've never understood how Brexit destroys Britain's "pretentions to global significance" - what is the argument for it?
Same story with SINDYRef - If Scotland split, "Britain would lose its seat on the Security council" (the fact that the much more traumatic collapse of the USSR didn't lead to Russia losing its seat conveniently forgotten).
If we'd remained in the EU, no doubt sooner or later we & France would have been leant on to create an 'EU Seat' (trans 'German') - now its just the French who'll have to resist that.....on their own.....
So the murderer is dark-skinned, white, chubby, late 20s, psychiatrically disturbed, African in shorts, not in shorts, and acting alone with accomplices.
People are terrible eye witnesses. This has been proven time and time again.
MPS now saying via Sky that they're searching the stabber's home for reasons for his attack...
There's some really weird statements coming out.
- Saqid comes back from holiday and says Move Along, Nothing To See Here... - Hogan-Howe says how great the MPS response was and armed police are showing how we're all protected... - No details of his background
Martin Brunt saying murdered lady was American, others hurt include an Israeli, Brit, Aussie and another USAer.
There is very little case for interest rate cut at this point outside of the "something must be done, this is something lets do it" argument. There is absolutely no case for a rise in interest rates, yes the economy has been bubbling along nicely but it has been broadly uninflationary. There may be a slight inflationary shock from Brexit but it will probably fall off, there isn't much evidence of inflation drivers pushing at the door. Suspect base rate will remain at very low levels for quite a while.
Both parties are broad churches of course, but currently Labour's leadership and PLP are so divided I struggle to imagine them running a vaguely coherent GE campaign.
If Corbyn came up with a hard left manifesto, would Blairite MPs go on TV to defend it? Would they promote it in literature to their constituents? I'm trying to imagine Chukka Umunna explaining to Andrew Neil the merits of renationalising the coal mines or something and I just can't.
If the choice was that or deselection these slimeballs woul;d certainly do it , they would sell their grannies.
'Fly the flag for Team GB. It may well be the last hurrah for ‘Britain’
...
It really has. It’s also a fading signifier for pretensions to global importance that Brexit has decisively done for. It’s the name of the nonexistent empire referred to in the titles of all those dodgy honours. It’s somewhere cited by politicians – witness Michael Howard’s “British dream”, Ed Miliband’s “British promise”, and David Cameron’s tributes to something he called “the British spirit” – whose words fail to ring true, not just because patriotism of the Westminster variety is usually a put-on, but because the imagined country to which they refer barely exists anymore.'
I've never understood how Brexit destroys Britain's "pretentions to global significance" - what is the argument for it?
Once you embed your economy deeply into Europe, a single currency becomes attractive... once you have that, you want it to function effectively, so need to pool fiscal powers... then more power in Brussels starts to require more democratic accountability, so you need something more like an elected government there and less like an international organisation... then that government will naturally promote deeper economic integration, and which encourages more pooling, and so on.
In that scenario Britain effectively ceases to exist as an international actor in its own right. Even if Britain were never pulled in so deep - and I'd argue there would ultimately be times when Britain is just one economic or financial crisis away from having euro membership appear attractive - it ends up as an uncomfortably semi-detached member of a larger political union in which it is an increasingly poor fit. Is that something a "globally significant" nation would view as a desirable pathway?
I get why some people want to be part of a European federation. I get why some people would prefer Britain "half in, half out" as it has been since Maastricht. I don't get why those courses are viewed as making Britain a "global player" whereas standing on its own feet, pursuing a sui generis relationship with the EU and its own interests elsewhere in the world is somehow a self-sunset on having any role in the world.
Reading last night's thread, it's clear some people think the UK would be like Bangladesh, had it not joined the EU.
But Texas has gone Democrat before in 1960, 1964 and 1968 as well as most recently 1976. Interesting that they won even in close election years like 1960 and 1968.
Different Democrats.
If you look at a map of US election results, it inverts over the 1960s. 1968 is pretty much the pivotal year for this.
Anyone who carries out a random knife (or gun) attack could be described as mentally ill because most people would say it is not a rational act. This should not be used as an excuse for lenient punishment. Everyone should be held responsible for their own actions.
Rubbish. It depends on the mental illness. Someone with severe psychosis has no idea what they are doing, nor even any inkling that there is something wrong with them.
1843 Politicalbetting: 'The M'Naghten rules are a metropolitan, liberal obstruction to condign justice.'
Have to agree about the militarisation of the police. I dont understand the need for it. We have lived by the motto of not giving the criminals a reason to carry lethal weapons. It feels like this is being undone.
'Fly the flag for Team GB. It may well be the last hurrah for ‘Britain’
...
It really has. It’s also a fading signifier for pretensions to global importance that Brexit has decisively done for. It’s the name of the nonexistent empire referred to in the titles of all those dodgy honours. It’s somewhere cited by politicians – witness Michael Howard’s “British dream”, Ed Miliband’s “British promise”, and David Cameron’s tributes to something he called “the British spirit” – whose words fail to ring true, not just because patriotism of the Westminster variety is usually a put-on, but because the imagined country to which they refer barely exists anymore.'
I've never understood how Brexit destroys Britain's "pretentions to global significance" - what is the argument for it?
Once you embed your economy deeply into Europe, a single currency becomes attractive... once you have that, you want it to function effectively, so need to pool fiscal powers... then more power in Brussels starts to require more democratic accountability, so you need something more like an elected government there and less like an international organisation... then that government will naturally promote deeper economic integration, and which encourages more pooling, and so on.
In that scenario Britain effectively ceases to exist as an international actor in its own right. Even if Britain were never pulled in so deep - and I'd argue there would ultimately be times when Britain is just one economic or financial crisis away from having euro membership appear attractive - it ends up as an uncomfortably semi-detached member of a larger political union in which it is an increasingly poor fit. Is that something a "globally significant" nation would view as a desirable pathway?
I get why some people want to be part of a European federation. I get why some people would prefer Britain "half in, half out" as it has been since Maastricht. I don't get why those courses are viewed as making Britain a "global player" whereas standing on its own feet, pursuing a sui generis relationship with the EU and its own interests elsewhere in the world is somehow a self-sunset on having any role in the world.
Reading last night's thread, it's clear some people think the UK would be like Bangladesh, had it not joined the EU.
You mean below Afghanistan in the Cricket T20 rankings?????
Comments
Conversely, not being part of the EU imposes a much stiffer penalty on the region that secedes. I think that if Scotland doesn't vote for independence within the next ten years, then the Union will be strengthened. Simply, leaving the Union won't be realistic.
I could point out those who were convinced the police were withholding information because the driver was Muslim.
Young men are pumped full of testosterone and energy. That will find an outlet, somehow.
http://archbishopcranmer.com/london-stabbing-met-and-bbc-say-mental-health-a-significant-factor/
Clinton 47 .. Trump 32
http://www.wbur.org/politicker/2016/08/04/clinton-over-trump-new-hampshire-poll
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/colorado-trump-shrinking-electoral-map-226653
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3722865/I-thank-God-wasn-t-30-seconds-dead-Witness-saw-bleeding-woman-fighting-life-Russell-Square-terror-attack-aftermath.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
I'm sure it's designed to initimidate and reassure in equal measure, but I find it unBritish and unnecessary.
I think the Met have got the balance wrong.
On Glasgow, that's fair comment. Then again, the Nice assumption proved correct.
The approach of authorities to Rotherham, Cologne and Dave's murder spree haven't exactly filled people with confidence. The police putting out psychiatric opinions [the anti-terrorism police must be bloody well-trained to work out a chap's psychological situation whilst electrocuting him] so rapidly whilst giving almost no other information seems a bit off.
Anyway, we'll see. Assuming we ever learn anything about the chap.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/761142737966141441
Ditto forces that allow uniforms to include bomber jackets and baseball caps.
Are they all to wear veils?
I want to be able to identity who's walking around London with ultimate force. Experience shows that they ain't always 100% honest when things go wrong.
Corbyn on #RussellSquare attack. Praises police, but adds: "I would urge no one to speculate on the reasons or causes for it "
'Nothing to see....move along, move along'...
Good money for Labour.
Shame they took the video down off off YouTube because it really was very funny.
I am probably as worried about them loosing off rounds by mistake as a lone wolf attack, and I steer well clear of any armed police.
The end-game of continued EU membership, in the very long run, is that Britain becomes an adjunct of a larger political federation. Ultimately, possibly even without its own currency or control over national budget - this at least is the end-game that European partners would have preferred as well as the more europhile politicians here, and is a plausible outcome despite opt-outs due to the "ratchet" effect of European integration (goes forward but not back) and the manner in which economic logic of deeper integration can drive the political integration and vice versa.
Once you embed your economy deeply into Europe, a single currency becomes attractive... once you have that, you want it to function effectively, so need to pool fiscal powers... then more power in Brussels starts to require more democratic accountability, so you need something more like an elected government there and less like an international organisation... then that government will naturally promote deeper economic integration, and which encourages more pooling, and so on.
In that scenario Britain effectively ceases to exist as an international actor in its own right. Even if Britain were never pulled in so deep - and I'd argue there would ultimately be times when Britain is just one economic or financial crisis away from having euro membership appear attractive - it ends up as an uncomfortably semi-detached member of a larger political union in which it is an increasingly poor fit. Is that something a "globally significant" nation would view as a desirable pathway?
I get why some people want to be part of a European federation. I get why some people would prefer Britain "half in, half out" as it has been since Maastricht. I don't get why those courses are viewed as making Britain a "global player" whereas standing on its own feet, pursuing a sui generis relationship with the EU and its own interests elsewhere in the world is somehow a self-sunset on having any role in the world.
The best odds against a General Election next year are 7/2, from either Betfred or Corals, which appear meagre to me compared with the very much more generous odds of 25/1 available for both 2018 (Betfred) and 2019 (188BET). These two years can therefore be combined to produce winning odds of 11/1.
Fair value I believe, but DYOR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSjK2Oqrgic
How much better it would be if the B of E raised interest rates by 0.5% "to cool the fast growing economy".
A recession, whether near or far off, is inevitable. Trying to pretend it can be stopped and the business cycle is somehow optional is foolish.
Peter Walker
Copy of speech sent to us said the "dirty old man" of Europe, but I'm not sure that's the intended phrase.
No chance on Tory Lite agenda
2015 - 30.4 %
2010 - 29.0 %
Let's all compare like with like instead of doing corrections behind the scenes.
Which is why the face veil is silly - not only is it nasty, it doesn't prevent a police officer from being identified by a terrorist.
If we'd remained in the EU, no doubt sooner or later we & France would have been leant on to create an 'EU Seat' (trans 'German') - now its just the French who'll have to resist that.....on their own.....
There's some really weird statements coming out.
- Saqid comes back from holiday and says Move Along, Nothing To See Here...
- Hogan-Howe says how great the MPS response was and armed police are showing how we're all protected...
- No details of his background
Martin Brunt saying murdered lady was American, others hurt include an Israeli, Brit, Aussie and another USAer.
"Random attack"
or
what JackW said.
Well, I say 1843 PB..
They have to go