Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.
Do keep living in fantasy world... Watch how the markets react tomorrow to this weekends shitstorm.....
Why should Cameron take responsibility for an outcome he passionately opposed. The people have spoken but I'd be highly surprised if they get the outcome they expect.
Because the campaigns are not finished by any chalk. Before A50 is signed the remainers can and will and indeed should point to every iterative consequence that flows from this vote.
The people have been lied to and deceived - that will become increasingly obvious to all.
They've made their decisions. Either they're grown up enough to be entitled to a vote or they're not. Thursday saw the biggest UK turnout in British polls since 1992: people wanted to be engaged in a way they have not been in a generation. That decision must now be implemented.
There is a question of What Comes Next. It's a complex one and one that it's best to let parliament decide. But Leave means leave.
As for the people being deceived, Project Fear wasn't so called without reason. It's not their fault if they didn't believe it.
Shall we wait and see? Petrol back up at £1.30, interest rate rises, the £ at E1.15 and the FTSE back at 5200 will wake a few folk up.
only ABs in the South East
Alan , no impact for us up here that only have wheelbarrows and shares is halving a fag.
It's becoming clear that the Leave vote wasn't about immigration, or at least not as much as the media made out but it was more about sovereignty and democracy. Those idiots like Lammy and Farron, are going to end up looking completely stupid (or more stupid than they already are). To try and overturn the democratic process is an absolute outrage.
There are going to be "bumps in the road" but in the long-term this country will flourish.
David , we already had an Elizabeth so she is II to Scotland , only I for the UK. You may not remember but many post boxes were burned years ago for that very reason
Isn't the opposite the case? She's I of the UK, II of England, and only I of Scotland (which is what Pillarboxgate was about).
I knew Ted Heath would sack him. Do you think Ted will win the upcoming General Election and take us into the Common Market?
Are you alright JackW, how are you, and has your ARSE taken a tumble now we are in the Brexit period? You never thought that would happen, did you?
Hello MikeK. Nice to see you back, now do behave.
I'm clinging on like grim death so to speak. Something of a medical miracle having had more close shaves than a Turkish barbers cut-throat razor.
On BREXIT the irony is that UKIP having given birth to the referendum genie will see the first two letters of its title disappear as Scotland exits down the line.
An independent Scotland looms large, the more so as Nicola Sturgeon runs rings around her opponents. She really is a quite remarkable political operator.
We all think Nicola's great on here.
Will you be hitting the LEAVE campaign trail with Malc in due course?
It's going to be the Remain in the EU campaign by the looks of it..
Only the Tories still to join by looks of it , Lib Dems in , Labour nearly there but not admitting it and Tories missing on field of battle so far. If played correctly it is hard to see how they can fail given the kamikaze trends down south. We will see soon if Ruthie is a leader or a sock puppet.
Is there any insight into which party the 38% of Scotland votes for LEAVE came from?
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
And I doubt the Scots will quit. Economically it makes no sense.
We were just told that about leaving the EU and did it. Now, maybe Project Fear was wrong this time but not with Sindy, but Project Fear 2 in Scotland will probably be disregarded as well.
May overhauling Boris among Tory voters is sensational - but does it reflect members? The buyers' remorse movement looks substantial too, not yet enough to change the result but it's early days. I really don't remember any more turbulent time in British politics, including Black Wednesday and Iraq.
By the way, someone here the other day was bemoaning the lack of interesting new elections to bet on for a while. Westminster has listened to him!
It's not just "Blairites", is it Nick? Is there really no-one else on the centre left/left in the PLP who could do a better job than Jeremy Corbyn? This is no longer about jogging along to a meh defeat in 2020, things are now a lot more serous than that. It's time to face reality, not to snuggle down in that comfort blanket.
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Cameron was playing Russian Roulette with the electorate... And lost!
The "renegotiation" put another bullet in the revolver.
Selling it as the greatest deal ever done - insulting our intelligence - put in another bullet.
Calling half the electorate "Little Englanders" - another bullet.
On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.
It makes no sense to me. What would Westminster actually gain from that? It just smacks of some kind of misplaced British/English nationalism. English and Welsh voters have completely changed the union settlement Scots endorsed two years ago. Scots have every right to revisit their decision.
On a side note, Sturgeon is going to run rings round Boris. You are very lucky to have her. I was never a fan, but she has shown extraordinary leadership and political skill since Friday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.
Thanks. I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.
In a strange kind of way I am enjssible.
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.
It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.
The Tory members will pick a BREXITEER by a landslide to ensure out means Out
The leavers were in a minority and still are.
By all accounts however you can measure it on this referendum the Leavers are a majority and they still are.
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
I'm a bit more serene today. I reckon we will see a fudge, now (and one that will make quite a lot of people unhappy)
Either the EU will give us a renegotiation, as Merkel's Chief of Staff hinted today, with some promises on immigration, and we will have a revote and REMAIN
OR
The EU will create some "associate member" status for the UK, basically the same as Norway, with a few knobs on. Single market - free movement, for now. Boris (or Theresa) will promise to do something about immigration at the next election, but might not get round to it.
And I doubt the Scots will quit. Economically it makes no sense.
That's quite treasonable talk, young man. We are FREE, FREE, BORN FREE, FREE FOR THE PRICE OF ONE.
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
That's true. Many of them want forced repatriation.
Evidence ?
* h ttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/far-right-demonstrators-take-streets-8281867 * h ttps://twitter.com/DWxLW/status/746684492073558017/photo/1 * h ttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClzBalfWEAAFZ_E.jpg
I called the referendum wrong but I predicted this, in the event of Brexit: that Labour elite would be so furious they'd mount a coup, feeling they have nothing left to lose.
Corbyn must surely go.
Most of my Corbynite Labour friends now regret electing him as leader, FWIW
He will go only to be replaced by McDonnell, Labour would be mad to elect a social democratic europhile after the public have voted Leave, if some Labour MPs want that they can join the LDs. The Corbyn/McDonnell wing is in charge at least until the next election
It's not so much that the public voted Leave, is that the working class Labour heartlands voted massively for Leave and if snubbed by their leadership will be knocking on Mr Farage's door before you can say "socialist".
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
Not as bad as Anna Botting on Sky - she was almost hysterical when quizzing Frank Field a bit earlier. She was totally OTT, shouty and desperate.
I can't recall ever seeing behaviour like that from a professional. Frank just sat there impassively and then remarked that she was clearly trying to start a fight.
Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.
Do keep living in fantasy world... Watch how the markets react tomorrow to this weekends shitstorm.....
Why should Cameron take responsibility for an outcome he passionately opposed. The people have spoken but I'd be highly surprised if they get the outcome they expect.
Because the campaigns are not finished by any chalk. Before A50 is signed the remainers can and will and indeed should point to every iterative consequence that flows from this vote.
The people have been lied to and deceived - that will become increasingly obvious to all.
They've made their decisions. Either they're grown up enough to be entitled to a vote or they're not. Thursday saw the biggest UK turnout in British polls since 1992: people wanted to be engaged in a way they have not been in a generation. That decision must now be implemented.
There is a question of What Comes Next. It's a complex one and one that it's best to let parliament decide. But Leave means leave.
As for the people being deceived, Project Fear wasn't so called without reason. It's not their fault if they didn't believe it.
Shall we wait and see? Petrol back up at £1.30, interest rate rises, the £ at E1.15 and the FTSE back at 5200 will wake a few folk up.
only ABs in the South East
Alan , no impact for us up here that only have wheelbarrows and shares is halving a fag.
LOL the joys of the turnip economy :-)
I suppose it's all barter up your way and living off roadkill ?
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Cameron was playing Russian Roulette with the electorate... And lost!
The "renegotiation" put another bullet in the revolver.
Selling it as the greatest deal ever done - insulting our intelligence - put in another bullet.
Calling half the electorate "Little Englanders" - another bullet.
The Punishment Budget - another.
Do you feel lucky, punk?
Yep. And getting "bankers" to deliver a lot of his apocalyptic messages. The same "banker's" who gave us the worst recession since the 1930's and not a single one has gone to prison...
Yes 73% of 18-24s who voted voted remain but if turnout was indeed only 36% in that age group they had a lower percentage vote remain than any other group. So lets put to bed the idea that the old robbed the young of their choice here. They did it themselves.
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
I'm a bit more serene today. I reckon we will see a fudge, now (and one that will make quite a lot of people unhappy)
Either the EU will give us a renegotiation, as Merkel's Chief of Staff hinted today, with some promises on immigration, and we will have a revote and REMAIN
OR
The EU will create some "associate member" status for the UK, basically the same as Norway, with a few knobs on. Single market - free movement, for now. Boris (or Theresa) will promise to do something about immigration at the next election, but might not get round to it.
.
I'd be happy to be a partner to the EU - not in it, but close enough to it in many ways, depending on the precise details and the cost. But I worry other Leavers would not be happy about that.
As to the renegotiation offer, surely a non-starter - the EU doesn't want to be blackmailed by every other country that is unhappy, who would vote leave and then ask for some more goodies.
I'll say this though, technically if a new deal was offered, that would be grounds for a rerun (or at least an argument for one). Yes, I know, 'vote till you get the right answer', but there's nothing undemocratic about voting on a new option. What would be valid is asking why it wasn't' offered earlier.
But if there's a market I would definitely lay there being a second referendum anytime in the next 3 years.
Yes 73% of 18-24s who voted voted remain but if turnout was indeed only 36% in that age group they had a lower percentage vote remain than any other group. So lets put to bed the idea that the old robbed the young of their choice here. They did it themselves.
On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.
It makes no sense to me. What would Westminster actually gain from that? It just smacks of some kind of misplaced British/English nationalism. English and Welsh voters have completely changed the union settlement Scots endorsed two years ago. Scots have every right to revisit their decision.
On a side note, Sturgeon is going to run rings round Boris. You are very lucky to have her. I was never a fan, but she has shown extraordinary leadership and political skill since Friday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.
Thanks. I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.
In a strange kind of way I am enjssible.
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.
It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.
The Tory members will pick a BREXITEER by a landslide to ensure out means Out
The leavers were in a minority and still are.
No, not amongst Tory members they aren't. Tory members are probably 70% leave, 10% remain, and 20% prepared to follow a leader either way. Voters less so, but still a big slice who backed Cameron from loyalty, not conviction.
Looking forward it is probably the middle class home county Tory leavers who may get to remorse before the wwc leavers.
A psephological moment. Most Labour voters voted REMAIN. In Labour heartlands, did a coalition of Ukip/working-class Tories hugely vote LEAVE? Is it possible that actual white working-class Labour voters were like the country as a whole, split down the middle?
David , we already had an Elizabeth so she is II to Scotland , only I for the UK. You may not remember but many post boxes were burned years ago for that very reason
Isn't the opposite the case? She's I of the UK, II of England, and only I of Scotland (which is what Pillarboxgate was about).
Glad someone is alert and spotted my deliberate mistake
big promises, and comparing the EU project to the ambitions of Hitler. Bet that went down well in France and Germany!
Where as calling British voters thick little Englanders that were about to bring about an new european war, economic armageddon and refugee camps in Kent was completely acceptable eh ?
I called the referendum wrong but I predicted this, in the event of Brexit: that Labour elite would be so furious they'd mount a coup, feeling they have nothing left to lose.
Corbyn must surely go.
Most of my Corbynite Labour friends now regret electing him as leader, FWIW
He will go only to be replaced by McDonnell, Labour would be mad to elect a social democratic europhile after the public have voted Leave, if some Labour MPs want that they can join the LDs. The Corbyn/McDonnell wing is in charge at least until the next election
It's not so much that the public voted Leave, is that the working class Labour heartlands voted massively for Leave and if snubbed by their leadership will be knocking on Mr Farage's door before you can say "socialist".
UKIP has to become a lot more left wing economically for that to happen. What's more, we don't know what people will be thinking about the EU when an election is actually called. We are only at the start of what may be a very bumpy ride.
I took a break for a couple of days to avoid the hysteria from all sides. Looks like I might need to take a longer break .
I imagine I'm in the same situation as an AB Remainer. Only in this case I'm goggling at the Labour party emulating the late-war Japanese government in thrashing about trying to square their particular circle. I wish them luck. Corbyn is a principled thicko. He's not the right man for these incredibly turbulent times.
For those struggling with post-referendum angst of whatever stripe; I share it. However, I'm mostly concerned with deciding whether and when to have my beloved but ancient Westie put to sleep. Horrible, horrible days.
A few weeks ago I suggested that after Leave won the future of British politics would be entirely up in the air. I underestimated it - we're not far away from a constitutional crisis.
I think Cameron has to ask for his cabinet to resign, and appoint a unity cabinet consisting of Leavers from all parties. It would take the toxicity out of his remaining months.
The only alternative seems to be for the Tory party to crown a temporary leader whilst Cameron remains as PM. Lord Howard has done that job before. Would be tremendous at it too.
Instead, as we watch the City decamp to the Eurozone, Johnson and Gove are ultimately going to have to fess up to the British people that it was all a game of political bait and switch that got out of hand, there was no plan, that they didn't appreciate the magnitude of the consequences for our economy, and that we simply can't afford to spend the next dozen years untangling our affairs from Europe.
Buffoons, the both of them.
Christ on a bike do we really have to spell it out in words of one syllable ?
Johnson is not in the government and may well never be in the government, Gove is Justice Secretary, but may well not be on Monday, if the Tories elect say May as the next PM neither of them will be responsible for anything.
There is no "Leave" there is no "Remain" the campaigns are over, the people have spoken, it is up to the elected government, currently headed by D. Cameron Esq to make the best of the current situation until such time as either the Tories elect a new leader, or a general election is called.
Do keep living in fantasy world... Watch how the markets react tomorrow to this weekends shitstorm.....
Why should Cameron take responsibility for an outcome he passionately opposed. The people have spoken but I'd be highly surprised if they get the outcome they expect.
Because the campaigns are not finished by any chalk. Before A50 is signed the remainers can and will and indeed should point to every iterative consequence that flows from this vote.
The people have been lied to and deceived - that will become increasingly obvious to all.
.
Shall we wait and see? Petrol back up at £1.30, interest rate rises, the £ at E1.15 and the FTSE back at 5200 will wake a few folk up.
only ABs in the South East
Alan , no impact for us up here that only have wheelbarrows and shares is halving a fag.
LOL the joys of the turnip economy :-)
I suppose it's all barter up your way and living off roadkill ?
We are twinning with the Swedes, so no matter what happens we will not starve.
Not as bad as Anna Botting on Sky - she was almost hysterical when quizzing Frank Field a bit earlier. She was totally OTT, shouty and desperate.
I can't recall ever seeing behaviour like that from a professional. Frank just sat there impassively and then remarked that she was clearly trying to start a fight.
If Remain had shown the passion before the referendum that they are showing now, perhaps they would have won it ...
On Daily Politics Scotland (only just catching up, apologies if already posted) Fluffy Mundell refused to commit to blocking a second Indyref.
I think that is good enough to say that the UK government will not try to stop one.
It would be insane to try to. Not only anti-democratic, but also entirely self-defeating - both in Scotland and internationally.
Come, come, Luckyguy and various other PB Brexiteers have said it ain't happening. That's good enough for me.
It makes no sense to me. What would Westminster actually gain from that? It just smacks of some kind of misplaced British/English nationalism. English and Welsh voters have completely changed the union settlement Scots endorsed two years ago. Scots have every right to revisit their decision.
On a side note, Sturgeon is going to run rings round Boris. You are very lucky to have her. I was never a fan, but she has shown extraordinary leadership and political skill since Friday. Now I am deeply envious. Good luck to you all.
Thanks. I realise things are not turning out the way you might want, so your good opinion is all the more appreciated.
In a strange kind of way I am enjssible.
Oddly like you SO I still dont believe we'll leave. Cameron was stupid to reject associate membership which is something most brits would vote for. I suspect we'll end up with a classic fudge. Watching the Germans theyre slowly realisng they have a series of problems too. If Cameron had stayed in place I think we'd be heading for EUref 2 by now but he legged it.
It's another reason why the Tories may want to choose a Remainer to be their next leader. It will be much easier for such a person to do that kind of deal and then sell it.
The Tory members will pick a BREXITEER by a landslide to ensure out means Out
The leavers were in a minority and still are.
No, not amongst Tory members they aren't. Tory members are probably 70% leave, 10% remain, and 20% prepared to follow a leader either way. Voters less so, but still a big slice who backed Cameron from loyalty, not conviction.
Looking forward it is probably the middle class home county Tory leavers who may get to remorse before the wwc leavers.
The question is, what proportion of the Parliamentary Party can live with Brexit. I imagine it's quite a large majority.
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Cameron was playing Russian Roulette with the electorate... And lost!
The "renegotiation" put another bullet in the revolver.
Selling it as the greatest deal ever done - insulting our intelligence - put in another bullet.
Calling half the electorate "Little Englanders" - another bullet.
The Punishment Budget - another.
Do you feel lucky, punk?
How many bullets before it becomes more Russian than Roulette?
Sorry to hear about your hound. My first dog, who lived to be nearly 17, ended up being put down. It's not great (although better than the alternative).
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
And I doubt the Scots will quit. Economically it makes no sense.
We were just told that about leaving the EU and did it. Now, maybe Project Fear was wrong this time but not with Sindy, but Project Fear 2 in Scotland will probably be disregarded as well.
The UK contributes a lot of money to the EU but England massively subsidizes Scotland. So there's a big difference.
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
And I doubt the Scots will quit. Economically it makes no sense.
We were just told that about leaving the EU and did it. Now, maybe Project Fear was wrong this time but not with Sindy, but Project Fear 2 in Scotland will probably be disregarded as well.
Yes but this rupture has proved how traumatic it is, breaking up unions. And this is just the division of a 50 year old trading bloc.
I do not believe there will be appetite in Scotland for an even more wrenching partition, so soon after this cleavage.
If in 5-10 years the UK is not prospering, yes, then Scotland will probably go.
I called the referendum wrong but I predicted this, in the event of Brexit: that Labour elite would be so furious they'd mount a coup, feeling they have nothing left to lose.
Corbyn must surely go.
Most of my Corbynite Labour friends now regret electing him as leader, FWIW
He will go only to be replaced by McDonnell, Labour would be mad to elect a social democratic europhile after the public have voted Leave, if some Labour MPs want that they can join the LDs. The Corbyn/McDonnell wing is in charge at least until the next election
I'm unsure that Labour are thinking rationally, right now.
Most Labour MP's have not been thinking rationally for a long time, the problem is they don't seen to care. They just keep on digging and fighting their own voters and membership at every opportunity.
You need Labour MP's who represent the voters views, not themselves. The EU referendum was a clear example of that.
The election of Corbyn over the collective screams of the MP's and the Labour establishment was a warning that the Labour party is hostile to them, Corbyn was elected precisely because he is hated by the MP's.
Not as bad as Anna Botting on Sky - she was almost hysterical when quizzing Frank Field a bit earlier. She was totally OTT, shouty and desperate.
I can't recall ever seeing behaviour like that from a professional. Frank just sat there impassively and then remarked that she was clearly trying to start a fight.
If Remain had shown the passion before the referendum that they are showing now, perhaps they would have won it ...
I suppose the lesson of the swing in differential sentiment before and after the vote is that winning and having things isn't much fun, but losing something makes you absolutely impassionate.
Yes 73% of 18-24s who voted voted remain but if turnout was indeed only 36% in that age group they had a lower percentage vote remain than any other group. So lets put to bed the idea that the old robbed the young of their choice here. They did it themselves.
I said time and time again before the vote, despite the Remainer's claiming there was a great groundswell among the youth (GE 2015 flashback), that I saw no evidence that young people were particularly bothered.
Most don't understand or care, nor can be arsed to.
Yes 73% of 18-24s who voted voted remain but if turnout was indeed only 36% in that age group they had a lower percentage vote remain than any other group. So lets put to bed the idea that the old robbed the young of their choice here. They did it themselves.
I saw a tweet last night noting that c25% of 18-24s turned out for Remain - so that chimes with your analysis too.
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.
And why was that ?
because they don't want free movement and they want to keep immigrants out of the Uk.
The question is, what proportion of the Parliamentary Party can live with Brexit. I imagine it's quite a large majority.
Many will be very upset. Nowhere near a majority will think it so bad to destroy their career and party on likely futile efforts to prevent it. If the reports on the LDs are right, even they aren't going to try that and they'd have little to lose by doing so, so the rest certainly won't. Practically every Tory region was for Leave, and half of Labour's were too, they're not poking that bear.
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.
And why was that ?
because they don't want free movement and they want to keep immigrants out of the Uk.
The evedence I can give is of my personal experience and family/friends(unlike scott who thinks most of the leave vote are facist)
The free movement only came to a concern when the new Eastern European countries joined and the mass immigration of poor unskilled families started to arrive,especially in the area where I live.
Your last comment is just bull,the people I know just want some control on our immigration of how many come here,what we have now is a free for all.
A few weeks ago I suggested that after Leave won the future of British politics would be entirely up in the air. I underestimated it - we're not far away from a constitutional crisis.
I think Cameron has to ask for his cabinet to resign, and appoint a unity cabinet consisting of Leavers from all parties. It would take the toxicity out of his remaining months.
The only alternative seems to be for the Tory party to crown a temporary leader whilst Cameron remains as PM. Lord Howard has done that job before. Would be tremendous at it too.
Howard is also a Brexiteer.
Also good friends with Cameron. Seems like the perfect compromise. Or if Cammo wanted to be off, Howard could take over as temp PM.
Now, if only someone would tell Dave. Maybe the BNC alumni network can help...
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
And I doubt the Scots will quit. Economically it makes no sense.
We were just told that about leaving the EU and did it. Now, maybe Project Fear was wrong this time but not with Sindy, but Project Fear 2 in Scotland will probably be disregarded as well.
The UK contributes a lot of money to the EU but England massively subsidizes Scotland. So there's a big difference.
Not in whether the people will a) ignore it or b) consider it a price worth paying, even if they are wrong about how bad they think it will be
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.
And why was that ?
because they don't want free movement and they want to keep immigrants out of the Uk.
and why would that be ?
You tell me... small minded really.
for some yes, but mostly when they are facing static wages, housing problems and difficulties over schools for their kids or getting a GP, there's nothing in it for them but grief. So why would they want that ?
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
And I doubt the Scots will quit. Economically it makes no sense.
We were just told that about leaving the EU and did it. Now, maybe Project Fear was wrong this time but not with Sindy, but Project Fear 2 in Scotland will probably be disregarded as well.
Yes but this rupture has proved how traumatic it is, breaking up unions. And this is just the division of a 50 year old trading bloc.
I do not believe there will be appetite in Scotland for an even more wrenching partition, so soon after this cleavage.
If in 5-10 years the UK is not prospering, yes, then Scotland will probably go.
Scotland's gone imo. Possibly before Xmas.
lol. OK. Why not just do it this weekend?
Genuine question: what are the plausible circumstances (if any) that would make you have the fabled buyer's remorse?
I took a break for a couple of days to avoid the hysteria from all sides. Looks like I might need to take a longer break .
I imagine I'm in the same situation as an AB Remainer. Only in this case I'm goggling at the Labour party emulating the late-war Japanese government in thrashing about trying to square their particular circle. I wish them luck. Corbyn is a principled thicko. He's not the right man for these incredibly turbulent times.
For those struggling with post-referendum angst of whatever stripe; I share it. However, I'm mostly concerned with deciding whether and when to have my beloved but ancient Westie put to sleep. Horrible, horrible days.
Condolences - you'll know when the time is right.
On a Labour coup note - Sam Coates from the Times is saying there are two Labour coups, one started by Mrs Hodge on Friday with a No Confidence vote - and now this one from Hillary Benn. Everyone seems very confused, especially since the unions have jumped en masse behind Jezza.
Well, at least IDS has now achieved some kind of immortality. That will feature in every political quotations dictionary until the end of time, but not in a good way.
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Cameron was playing Russian Roulette with the electorate... And lost!
The "renegotiation" put another bullet in the revolver.
Selling it as the greatest deal ever done - insulting our intelligence - put in another bullet.
Calling half the electorate "Little Englanders" - another bullet.
The Punishment Budget - another.
Do you feel lucky, punk?
It's all well and good mocking Cameron now but where were you when he was spouting soundbites like 'Stick to the plan' and the 'SNP will be running the country' back in 2015. If people had addressed those issues of Dave talking continuous crap in 2015 we wouldnt be in this mire.
On my model of 2015 constituencies/votes with party shares for Leave and Remain added as per Ashcroft poll, if there were a Leave/Remain coupon general election Leave would win a majority: 358/292.
Yes 73% of 18-24s who voted voted remain but if turnout was indeed only 36% in that age group they had a lower percentage vote remain than any other group. So lets put to bed the idea that the old robbed the young of their choice here. They did it themselves.
I told everyone last year that Remain's structural weaknesses are: A. Remainers don't really care as much about the EU as Leavers. B. Remainers are dependent on university students coming out to save them.
I even said how ironic it is that Cameron will need to beg for rescue from the same people he tried to discourage from voting and economically attacked for years.
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
And I doubt the Scots will quit. Economically it makes no sense.
We were just told that about leaving the EU and did it. Now, maybe Project Fear was wrong this time but not with Sindy, but Project Fear 2 in Scotland will probably be disregarded as well.
Yes but this rupture has proved how traumatic it is, breaking up unions. And this is just the division of a 50 year old trading bloc.
I do not believe there will be appetite in Scotland for an even more wrenching partition, so soon after this cleavage.
If in 5-10 years the UK is not prospering, yes, then Scotland will probably go.
Scotland's gone imo. Possibly before Xmas.
Agreed. Sturgeon is already looking and acting like the leader of an independent country. When the next referendum comes it will just be a rubber-stamping exercise for a new settlement with Scotland in the EU as a full member state.
A few weeks ago I suggested that after Leave won the future of British politics would be entirely up in the air. I underestimated it - we're not far away from a constitutional crisis.
I think Cameron has to ask for his cabinet to resign, and appoint a unity cabinet consisting of Leavers from all parties. It would take the toxicity out of his remaining months.
The only alternative seems to be for the Tory party to crown a temporary leader whilst Cameron remains as PM. Lord Howard has done that job before. Would be tremendous at it too.
Howard is also a Brexiteer.
Also good friends with Cameron. Seems like the perfect compromise. Or if Cammo wanted to be off, Howard could take over as temp PM.
Now, if only someone would tell Dave. Maybe the BNC alumni network can help...
Not a good scenario if that enables bookies to declare bets on all the front-runners void?
They've just had a vote which was roundly rejected and that was when oil was $100 a barrel rather than $20 which is what their whole campaign revolved around. How are they going to fund the country without England magic beans?
Plus 40% voted to leave the EU in Scotland anyway.
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.
And why was that ?
because they don't want free movement and they want to keep immigrants out of the Uk.
and why would that be ?
You tell me... small minded really.
for some yes, but mostly when they are facing static wages, housing problems and difficulties over schools for their kids or getting a GP, there's nothing in it for them but grief. So why would they want that ?
but when the shit hits the fan as it will (petrol prices are already going up) it'll be the ordinary man in the street who will come off worst.. When there is a recession it will be the same Voting out was like Turkeys voting for an early Xmas. extremely stupid. Its going to cost a bomb for access to the free market. Ask Norway.
A psephological moment. Most Labour voters voted REMAIN. In Labour heartlands, did a coalition of Ukip/working-class Tories hugely vote LEAVE? Is it possible that actual white working-class Labour voters were like the country as a whole, split down the middle?
Take out London and uni towns and I'd guess that Labour leave may have been a majority elsewhere in England and Wales.
We must remember that UKIP North etc is basically 2010 Labour.
I'm not sure it's support for the end of the Union. It's just consistency. In the crudest of brush strokes (I can't be arsed to write a nuanced essay). The UK didn't like the direction the EU was heading, and has chosen to leave. Scotland did not. Therefore it can't have its own referendum because....reasons? Doesn't make sense. I'd agree that the UK's decision is a material change.
I do think that Sindy II would have to be a once in a generation referendum though.
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Leave voters have a wide range of expectations on what immigration control means. You think leavers mean zero, but they don't.
You mean in a range from zero immigrants to negative immigration
That's about as credible as saying all remainers want unlimited immigration from across the world.
I meet the ordinary "man in the street" so to speak every day of my working life. I know what they were saying. There was only one thing they wanted to talk about and were talking about and it was immigration.
And why was that ?
because they don't want free movement and they want to keep immigrants out of the Uk.
and why would that be ?
You tell me... small minded really.
for some yes, but mostly when they are facing static wages, housing problems and difficulties over schools for their kids or getting a GP, there's nothing in it for them but grief. So why would they want that ?
but when the shit hits the fan as it will (petrol prices are already going up) it'll be the ordinary man in the street who will come off worst.. When there is a recession it will be the same Voting out was like Turkeys voting for an early Xmas. extremely stupid. Its going to cost a bomb for access to the free market. Ask Norway.
which of course was an argument you failed to persuade people of. People with not a lot havent a lot to lose.
Heseltine concedes on Sky only Boris, Gove and Farage can now lead the country and the negotiations on Brexit given the Leave vote
Holy shit.. we are fecked.. All those who voted leave should remember what they did.. .
What LEAVERS did is vote in a democratic contest, which is there right. If you want to blame anyone, blame Cameron for having the referendum and then losing it.
NO blame for Dave, he had to offer a referendum, that's how he got his majority. Remain lost because of the package of lies told by leave.. too late now to cry over spilt beer..
When its clear that Leave cannot control immigration to the satisfaction of the leave voters, there is going to be one almighty row..
Cameron was playing Russian Roulette with the electorate... And lost!
The "renegotiation" put another bullet in the revolver.
Selling it as the greatest deal ever done - insulting our intelligence - put in another bullet.
Calling half the electorate "Little Englanders" - another bullet.
The Punishment Budget - another.
Do you feel lucky, punk?
Yep. And getting "bankers" to deliver a lot of his apocalyptic messages. The same "banker's" who gave us the worst recession since the 1930's and not a single one has gone to prison...
What was he thinking?
A trader banker has gone to prison for falsifying LIBOR.
However, the damage to banks and the economy was by those managers making poor decisions to lend money at interest rates too low for the risk. This is a sackable offence but not a criminal offence unless they were bribed to make the loan.
Bank shareholders have seen their shares reduced to less than a tenth of their previous value (Lloyds, HBOS, RBS) or reduced to nothing (Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley, Alliance and Leicester)
I wonder what a cartoon involving Greece would look like. Probably cutting their own head off to stay in the EU.
Well if your leg is trapped between rocks and the tide is coming in then you have to cut your leg off to save the rest of you. It would seem that many people would prefer to drown.
I knew Ted Heath would sack him. Do you think Ted will win the upcoming General Election and take us into the Common Market?
Are you alright JackW, how are you, and has your ARSE taken a tumble now we are in the Brexit period? You never thought that would happen, did you?
Hello MikeK. Nice to see you back, now do behave.
I'm clinging on like grim death so to speak. Something of a medical miracle having had more close shaves than a Turkish barbers cut-throat razor.
On BREXIT the irony is that UKIP having given birth to the referendum genie will see the first two letters of its title disappear as Scotland exits down the line.
An independent Scotland looms large, the more so as Nicola Sturgeon runs rings around her opponents. She really is a quite remarkable political operator.
We all think Nicola's great on here.
Will you be hitting the LEAVE campaign trail with Malc in due course?
It's going to be the Remain in the EU campaign by the looks of it..
Only the Tories still to join by looks of it , Lib Dems in , Labour nearly there but not admitting it and Tories missing on field of battle so far. If played correctly it is hard to see how they can fail given the kamikaze trends down south. We will see soon if Ruthie is a leader or a sock puppet.
Is there any insight into which party the 38% of Scotland votes for LEAVE came from?
Not yet, the demographic breakdown of the vote in Scotland is if vital importance.
Ashcroft had (as I predicted) 35% of SNP supporters going Leave.
From views expressed on here, the 43% that oppose a 2nd Indy referendum will mostly be folk who voted Leave.
'The indissoluble unity of the UK'
Nah. If the UK wants to leave the EU is should leave (tick), if Scotland wants to leave the UK is should leave. rUK should facilitate Scotland's leave from the UK if that is what it wants, and Scotland should not obstruct the rUK leave from the EU if that is what it wants. Better to be friendly neighbours than rowing family.
May overhauling Boris among Tory voters is sensational - but does it reflect members? The buyers' remorse movement looks substantial too, not yet enough to change the result but it's early days. I really don't remember any more turbulent time in British politics, including Black Wednesday and Iraq.
By the way, someone here the other day was bemoaning the lack of interesting new elections to bet on for a while. Westminster has listened to him!
It's not just "Blairites", is it Nick? Is there really no-one else on the centre left/left in the PLP who could do a better job than Jeremy Corbyn? This is no longer about jogging along to a meh defeat in 2020, things are now a lot more serous than that. It's time to face reality, not to snuggle down in that comfort blanket.
I would take as much notice about what polls say about brexit remorse and sindy or anything else right now as anyone took polls showing bill hague set for downing st seriously during the petrol crises/lorry drivers fuel blockade.
Bank shareholders have seen their shares reduced to less than a tenth of their previous value (Lloyds, HBOS, RBS) or reduced to nothing (Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley, Alliance and Leicester)
If the government had supported mortgages directly and let the banks go to the wall if would have been a more equitable result all around. Private profit with socialised loss is an obscene moral hazard.
May overhauling Boris among Tory voters is sensational - but does it reflect members? The buyers' remorse movement looks substantial too, not yet enough to change the result but it's early days. I really don't remember any more turbulent time in British politics, including Black Wednesday and Iraq.
By the way, someone here the other day was bemoaning the lack of interesting new elections to bet on for a while. Westminster has listened to him!
It's not just "Blairites", is it Nick? Is there really no-one else on the centre left/left in the PLP who could do a better job than Jeremy Corbyn? This is no longer about jogging along to a meh defeat in 2020, things are now a lot more serous than that. It's time to face reality, not to snuggle down in that comfort blanket.
I would take as much notice about what polls say about brexit remorse and sindy or anything else right now as anyone took polls showing bill hague set for downing st seriously during the petrol crises/lorry drivers fuel blockade.
Well quite. The response rates of polls are a joke, let us just consider for a moment the sort of people that might consider it worth their time to answer a poll on the subject of their feelings on a referendum that happened last week?
Plainly, this site is experiencing a collective nervous breakdown.
And I doubt the Scots will quit. Economically it makes no sense.
We were just told that about leaving the EU and did it. Now, maybe Project Fear was wrong this time but not with Sindy, but Project Fear 2 in Scotland will probably be disregarded as well.
The UK contributes a lot of money to the EU but England massively subsidizes Scotland. So there's a big difference.
Said before the vote the margin might be as important as the decision. Seems to be that way. It's not merely a knotty problem, but a Gordian Knotty problem.
I do wonder if we'll end up with a snap election.
So far, only two things seem to unite the nation: 1) contempt for those who voted Leave but didn't actually want us to Leave 2) laughing at Ronaldo's tantrums
Well I voted Leave and wanted to Leave. Boris and Gove are wise to keep out MSM frenzy until Monday, but then must be seen to be starting to act if they are going to be serious contenders. If they make no move by Monday afternoon even I will start to believe they are frit.
Well, at least IDS has now achieved some kind of immortality. That will feature in every political quotations dictionary until the end of time, but not in a good way.
I don't know about that. It has the signal virtue of being honest. And it is true for virtually every political promise ever made.
Comments
There are going to be "bumps in the road" but in the long-term this country will flourish.
Just slip Mrs W a few quid every now and again so that you can get her out of the house and furtively pop into PB.
I am beginning to think Trump will do it. Weird things are happening politically. We are in the era of populist demagogues.
Selling it as the greatest deal ever done - insulting our intelligence - put in another bullet.
Calling half the electorate "Little Englanders" - another bullet.
The Punishment Budget - another.
Do you feel lucky, punk?
* h ttps://twitter.com/DWxLW/status/746684492073558017/photo/1
* h ttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClzBalfWEAAFZ_E.jpg
I can't recall ever seeing behaviour like that from a professional. Frank just sat there impassively and then remarked that she was clearly trying to start a fight.
I suppose it's all barter up your way and living off roadkill ?
So many of those things were obviously wrong, as was Obama's 'back of the queue' line.
"A reasonable response to 36 hours' worth of fury, gracelessness, and ill-will."
Best to be ignored. I blame the parents myself.
What was he thinking?
18-24: 26.3%
25-34: 36%
35-44: 37.4%
45-54: 33%
55-64: 34.8%
64+: 32.4%
Yes 73% of 18-24s who voted voted remain but if turnout was indeed only 36% in that age group they had a lower percentage vote remain than any other group. So lets put to bed the idea that the old robbed the young of their choice here. They did it themselves.
As to the renegotiation offer, surely a non-starter - the EU doesn't want to be blackmailed by every other country that is unhappy, who would vote leave and then ask for some more goodies.
I'll say this though, technically if a new deal was offered, that would be grounds for a rerun (or at least an argument for one). Yes, I know, 'vote till you get the right answer', but there's nothing undemocratic about voting on a new option. What would be valid is asking why it wasn't' offered earlier.
But if there's a market I would definitely lay there being a second referendum anytime in the next 3 years.
Looking forward it is probably the middle class home county Tory leavers who may get to remorse before the wwc leavers.
Most Labour voters voted REMAIN. In Labour heartlands, did a coalition of Ukip/working-class Tories hugely vote LEAVE? Is it possible that actual white working-class Labour voters were like the country as a whole, split down the middle?
I took a break for a couple of days to avoid the hysteria from all sides. Looks like I might need to take a longer break
I imagine I'm in the same situation as an AB Remainer. Only in this case I'm goggling at the Labour party emulating the late-war Japanese government in thrashing about trying to square their particular circle. I wish them luck. Corbyn is a principled thicko. He's not the right man for these incredibly turbulent times.
For those struggling with post-referendum angst of whatever stripe; I share it. However, I'm mostly concerned with deciding whether and when to have my beloved but ancient Westie put to sleep. Horrible, horrible days.
Sorry to hear about your hound. My first dog, who lived to be nearly 17, ended up being put down. It's not great (although better than the alternative).
They just keep on digging and fighting their own voters and membership at every opportunity.
You need Labour MP's who represent the voters views, not themselves.
The EU referendum was a clear example of that.
The election of Corbyn over the collective screams of the MP's and the Labour establishment was a warning that the Labour party is hostile to them, Corbyn was elected precisely because he is hated by the MP's.
Most don't understand or care, nor can be arsed to.
@steveplrose: Racist graffiti daubed on Polish cultural centre in Hammersmith: https://t.co/WcAx2Z2RMk
And this time I really do have to be off.
The free movement only came to a concern when the new Eastern European countries joined and the mass immigration of poor unskilled families started to arrive,especially in the area where I live.
Your last comment is just bull,the people I know just want some control on our immigration of how many come here,what we have now is a free for all.
Now, if only someone would tell Dave. Maybe the BNC alumni network can help...
You're just becoming a clown....
@DeborahJaneOrr: So horrible and shameful.
Racist flyers left near school tell Poles: Go home https://t.co/fSb3o9bFjs
On a Labour coup note - Sam Coates from the Times is saying there are two Labour coups, one started by Mrs Hodge on Friday with a No Confidence vote - and now this one from Hillary Benn. Everyone seems very confused, especially since the unions have jumped en masse behind Jezza.
Interesting....
If people had addressed those issues of Dave talking continuous crap in 2015 we wouldnt be in this mire.
Should focus MPs minds, especially REMAIN MPs who are at odds with their LEAVE activists.
Expect plenty of threat of de-selection if MPs don't go along with BREXIT.
A. Remainers don't really care as much about the EU as Leavers.
B. Remainers are dependent on university students coming out to save them.
I even said how ironic it is that Cameron will need to beg for rescue from the same people he tried to discourage from voting and economically attacked for years.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-new-poll-support-for-trump-plunges-giving-clinton-a-double-digit-lead/2016/06/25/0565bef6-3a31-11e6-a254-2b336e293a3c_story.html
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/747063721894252544
They've just had a vote which was roundly rejected and that was when oil was $100 a barrel rather than $20 which is what their whole campaign revolved around. How are they going to fund the country without England magic beans?
Plus 40% voted to leave the EU in Scotland anyway.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
Then Steven Kinnock (I don't like hereditary MP's anyway).
We must remember that UKIP North etc is basically 2010 Labour.
I do think that Sindy II would have to be a once in a generation referendum though.
'The indissoluble unity of the UK'
However, the damage to banks and the economy was by those managers making poor decisions to lend money at interest rates too low for the risk. This is a sackable offence but not a criminal offence unless they were bribed to make the loan.
Bank shareholders have seen their shares reduced to less than a tenth of their previous value (Lloyds, HBOS, RBS) or reduced to nothing (Northern Rock, Bradford and Bingley, Alliance and Leicester)
Ashcroft had (as I predicted) 35% of SNP supporters going Leave.
Nope, me neither.
(edit)