Sturgeon says that Scotland will veto UK leaving EU
Wowa, what? Is there a mechanism?
It's this business of Scottish consent being required to repeal the 1972 act. I don't think anyone really knows the legal realities.
So we'd be in a situation after the two year period where the EU thinks we are out, but we still haven't repealed the 72 act?
Parliament can amend or repeal any Act it likes. There is no requirement for multiple- or super-majorities and no provision for any subset of parliament to exercise a veto, other than the Commons and Lords acting as individual Houses.
Sturgeon is talking bollocks, though bollocks that her followers will lap up.
I think the one thing is the Scotland Act, which requires consent from the Scottish Parliament.
Then Parliament passes a law that says the Scotland Act doesn't apply here.
Parliament is the ultimate source of sovereign power in this country. It can do what it wants.
Yeah true, it could simply amend the law.
How when the eurosceptics don't have a majority in parliament? Looking like the Night Tube on grand scale. Boris had an idea, but no plan to deliver it.
This really cannot go on in the face of the current uncertainty.
It's tricky - as a country it would probably help us to delay making the article 50 until all our ducks are in a row, a period of several months at least, but it's getting to be utter chaos before then and government will cease. ..
The hints from Germany who tend to have a lot of sway are for a deal that is less than the EEA. reduced access to the single market but probably no supranational court and possibly a reduced freedom of movement requirement. I'm wondering if they would tie the UK into the EU's international trade deals. I can see advantages for both sides to that.
The Germans want to sell us cars and other engineering products without tariffs or hindrance. Fair enough but there has to be a quid pro quo for that and that means the single passport remains for our financial services. Obviously our financial services industry will have to comply with EU regs when dealing within the EU and they will need to accept ultimate supervision by the ECB.
There will be a haggle and Britain has cards to play and a deal will be struck although it's not clear who is going to strike the deal from our side. The strong indications are that the EEA is off the table. It is highly unlikely to include the Financial Passport. That's one benefit to the rEU of us flouncing off. In any case it requires ECJ and ECB oversight. No-one will trust on that, even if we wanted it ourselves. So that's the space in which the haggle will take place.
What are the strong indications that EEA is off the table? Is that from the EU or key Brexiteers?
Do we know what the view on the Norway model is of Boris, Gove, IDS etc ?
I suspect there is majority in parliament and in both main parties for a model as close to the status quo as possible. That would satisfy a majority in the country as well I suspect even though free movement would remain (possibly not to the same extent).
Both Germany and France have said and reiterated, no access to the single market, which is the main feature of the EEA. Germany has talked about a unique arrangement for the UK. The eventual arrangement may have features of the EEA, but it looks it will be a different deal.
Can someone explain to me how it can be in the interests of the EU to not have free trade with the UK?
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
I think Labour now have a candidate to replace The Red Flag as their new song. Sung by Hillary.
There's been a lot of talk about this party maybe, maybe too much talk. This is not a rebel party. This coup is Sunday Bloody Sunday.
I can't believe the news today I can't close my eyes and make it go away
How long, how long must we have this leader How long, how long
Tonight we can be as one, tonight Broken bottles under children's feet And bodies strewn across a dead end street But I won't heed the battle call Puts my back up, my back up against the wall
I have refused an offer from Jezza for my ARSE to serve in several shadow cabinet posts simultaneously on account of a more generous offer from numerous Conservative MP's to be the unity candidate to stop Boris becoming PM.
My ARSE is considering its position.
Apologies if I have got the wrong end of the stick.
I seem to recall hearing you have been unwell.
Glad to see you back posting.
Even in your long life this must be one of the standout moments in time :-)
Or how about Osborne as Rupert, making insane decisions that look good on paper but lead to total defeat (the surrender of Bristol compared to the 2015 budget)?
This really cannot go on in the face of the current uncertainty.
It's tricky - as a country it would probably help us to delay making the article 50 until all our ducks are in a row, a period of several months at least, but it's getting to be utter chaos before then and government will cease. ..
The hints from Germany who tend to have a lot of sway are for a deal that is less than the EEA. reduced access to the single market but probably no supranational court and possibly a reduced freedom of movement requirement. I'm wondering if they would tie the UK into the EU's international trade deals. I can see advantages for both sides to that.
y will need to accept ultimate supervision by the ECB.
There will be a haggle and Britain has cards to play and a deal will be struck although it's not clear who is going to strike the deal from our side. The strong indications are that the EEA is off the table. It is highly unlikely to include the Financial Passport. That's one benefit to the rEU of us flouncing off. In any case it requires ECJ and ECB oversight. No-one will trust on that, even if we wanted it ourselves. So that's the space in which the haggle will take place.
What are the strong indications that EEA is off the table? Is that from the EU or key Brexiteers?
Do we know what the view on the Norway model is of Boris, Gove, IDS etc ?
I suspect there is majority in parliament and in both main parties for a model as close to the status quo as possible. That would satisfy a majority in the country as well I suspect even though free movement would remain (possibly not to the same extent).
Both Germany and France have said and reiterated, no access to the single market, which is the main feature of the EEA. Germany has talked about a unique arrangement for the UK. The eventual arrangement may have features of the EEA, but it looks it will be a different deal.
Can someone explain to me how it can be in the interests of the EU to not have free trade with the UK?
£100bn in lost exports to our market - meh...
Worth it to keep the political and economic success of the EU on the road for a couple more years.
Around Europe realignments happen more frequently, ironic if exiting the EU will lead to a realignment of UK politics. Labour right and conservatve europhiles will join together (maybe with LDs, or what.'s left of them) and there will be a General Election as neither party has enough support in the commons.
As a centrist I know I'm hoping but everything is up on the air and anything can happen.
At which point the Europhile establishment will have gone from being in charge of all 3 main parties at the last general election to just one, a new SDP2, a party which of course only ever managed 3rd place!
They had second rate politicians, if only this time we could have the best and, let's face it, the Corbynite and Leave conservatives are much weaker than those who disagree with them.
It can't be Billy Bunter, surely? Come on, Labour, we've had enough cartoon characters in politics. Wallace, Deputy Dawg (thanks, Mr G), Micky Mouse, what next?
@TCPoliticalBetting Replied on previous thread but cant cut and paste - standing on my mates drive trying to get a signal
Thanks Charles. "French idea was to make a 2 tier Europe - the 6 and the rest. The 6 have a collective voting agreement and tell the rest what to do. I'm not sure I see that working.."
I agree. That is way too ambitious and has no chance of a quick implementation to head off the problems from nationalism over the next 12 months.
Or how about Osborne as Rupert, making insane decisions that look good on paper but lead to total defeat (the surrender of Bristol compared to the 2015 budget)?
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
If leaving the EU needs a referendum, a deal with the EU for EEA or EFTA or other status needs a referendum. Else it's a blank cheque for politicians with no formal influence over their decisions if they don't want it.
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
I'm sure your right but this a certain masochistic delight in watching the idiots squirm, wriggle and backtrack as their promises unravel.
Or how about Osborne as Rupert, making insane decisions that look good on paper but lead to total defeat (the surrender of Bristol compared to the 2015 budget)?
David Cameron: Princes in the Tower George Osborne:
Boris Johnson: Richard III
? : Richmond
David Cameron: Neville Chamberlain Boris Johnson: Lord Halifax as Prime Minister doing a deal Nigel Farage: sidelined Winston Churchill moaning about foreigners Darkest timeline.
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
I'm beginning to think some kind of re-vote is on the cards - not primarily to reverse the decision but to ameliorate a constitutional crisis. You have to go back centuries to find this level of strife. We're staring into the abyss here.
It is said that if we want access to the single market we must accept free movement of labour. That will be unacceptable to the British people. I suggest that any foreign company newly investing in the UK would have the right to have a quota of migrants allocated to them.
SNPers - why do you want to be in a union you do 10% of your trade with, rather than one where you do 65% of your trade?
Why did UK withdraw from a union it does a large amount of its trade with, to a union of zero others it does none of its trade with? Imagined communities, sovereignty, fear of dominance.
No you miss the point.
Only two possible scenarios with Scotland out of the Union and in the EU:
1. UK agrees Single Market Access - Scotland's position regarding trade with the UK and the EU is no different than it was before.
2. UK does not agree Single Market Access. - Scotland has free trade with the EU (£12 billion a year) but no has tariffs on its trade with the UK (£46 billion a year)
There is no scenario where an Independent Scotland in the EU has a better trade position overall than a Scotland remaining in the UK.
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
I'm beginning to think some kind of re-vote is on the cards - not primarily to reverse the decision but to ameliorate a constitutional crisis. You have to go back centuries to find this level of strife. We're staring into the abyss here.
Keep voting until we produce the right answer? No.
Around Europe realignments happen more frequently, ironic if exiting the EU will lead to a realignment of UK politics. Labour right and conservatve europhiles will join together (maybe with LDs, or what.'s left of them) and there will be a General Election as neither party has enough support in the commons.
As a centrist I know I'm hoping but everything is up on the air and anything can happen.
At which point the Europhile establishment will have gone from being in charge of all 3 main parties at the last general election to just one, a new SDP2, a party which of course only ever managed 3rd place!
They had second rate politicians, if only this time we could have the best and, let's face it, the Corbynite and Leave conservatives are much weaker than those who disagree with them.
This really cannot go on in the face of the current uncertainty.
It's tricky - as a country it would probably help us to delay making the article 50 until all our ducks are in a row, a period of several months at least, but it's getting to be utter chaos before then and government will cease. ..
The hints from Germany who tend to have a lot of sway are for a deal that is less than the EEA. reduced access to the single market but probably no supranational court and possibly a reduced freedom of movement requirement. I'm wondering if they would tie the UK into the EU's international trade deals. I can see advantages for both sides to that.
The Germans want to sell us cars and other engineering products without tariffs or hindrance. Fair enough but there has to be a quid pro quo for that and that means the single passport remains for our financial services. Obviously our financial services industry will have to comply with EU regs when dealing within the EU and they will need to accept ultimate supervision by the ECB.
There will be a haggle and Britain has cards to play and a deal will be struck although it's not clear who is going to strike the deal from our side.
What are the strong indications that EEA is off the table? Is that from the EU or key Brexiteers?
Do we know what the view on the Norway model is of Boris, Gove, IDS etc ?
I suspect there is majority in parliament and in both main parties for a model as close to the status quo as possible. That would satisfy a majority in the country as well I suspect even though free movement would remain (possibly not to the same extent).
Both Germany and France have said and reiterated, no access to the single market, which is the main feature of the EEA. Germany has talked about a unique arrangement for the UK. The eventual arrangement may have features of the EEA, but it looks it will be a different deal.
Can someone explain to me how it can be in the interests of the EU to not have free trade with the UK?
£100bn in lost exports to our market - meh...
They will drop pretty sharpish. No one will be able to afford them.
Except us NHS workers luxurating in an extra £350 million being spent on the NHS, yet no work to do what with all the migrants being turned away!
@faisalislam: Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"
The biggest dereliction of duty of a government in living memory.
They have a plan, it's called remain. Governments don't have a duty to implement policies of their enemies. Osborne and Carney have implemented the plan to stave off jitters in the city but, beyond that, what can they do?
It is said that if we want access to the single market we must accept free movement of labour. That will be unacceptable to the British people. I suggest that any foreign company newly investing in the UK would have the right to have a quota of migrants allocated to them.
TSE has accepted an article from me on this very point of the attitude of the public to a deal that does not include immigration barriers. I expect it will be delayed by events though as the Labour stuff is far more interesting right now.
SNPers - why do you want to be in a union you do 10% of your trade with, rather than one where you do 65% of your trade?
Why did UK withdraw from a union it does a large amount of its trade with, to a union of zero others it does none of its trade with? Imagined communities, sovereignty, fear of dominance.
No you miss the point.
Only two possible scenarios with Scotland out of the Union and in the EU: ... There is no scenario where an Independent Scotland in the EU has a better trade position overall than a Scotland remaining in the UK.
Agreed. My point is that by the same logic, there is no scenario where the UK has a better trade position after Brexit. Evidently, trade and dry economics don't beat imagined communities, sovereignty and fear of dominance.
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
I'm beginning to think some kind of re-vote is on the cards - not primarily to reverse the decision but to ameliorate a constitutional crisis. You have to go back centuries to find this level of strife. We're staring into the abyss here.
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
I'm beginning to think some kind of re-vote is on the cards - not primarily to reverse the decision but to ameliorate a constitutional crisis. You have to go back centuries to find this level of strife. We're staring into the abyss here.
But what would we be voting for/against? The logical solution is to have a GE once the parties (however configured and led) have got some policy choices to present to us.
@faisalislam: Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"
The biggest dereliction of duty of a government in living memory.
There is a plan. We are seeing it in action. No Article 50 until a new PM is elected. Meanwhile get Carney to calm the markets and flood liquidity if needed.
@faisalislam: Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"
The biggest dereliction of duty of a government in living memory.
They have a plan, it's called remain. Governments don't have a duty to implement policies of their enemies. Osborne and Carney have implemented the plan too stave off jitters in the city but, beyond that, what can they do?
You Brexit, you Fixit.
So are you saying that Cameron and Osborne should immediately resign ?
@faisalislam: Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"
The biggest dereliction of duty of a government in living memory.
They have a plan, it's called remain. Governments don't have a duty to implement policies of their enemies. Osborne and Carney have implemented the plan too stave off jitters in the city but, beyond that, what can they do?
You Brexit, you Fixit.
The civil service surely have to to contingency planning? And they are supposed to be neutral, or did the civil service have a position as well as the government (not sure if the two are one and the same).
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
I'm beginning to think some kind of re-vote is on the cards - not primarily to reverse the decision but to ameliorate a constitutional crisis. You have to go back centuries to find this level of strife. We're staring into the abyss here.
But what would we be voting for/against? The logical solution is to have a GE once the parties (however configured and led) have got some policy choices to present to us.
I agree. Let the parties decide the platforms and vote for them.
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
I'm beginning to think some kind of re-vote is on the cards - not primarily to reverse the decision but to ameliorate a constitutional crisis. You have to go back centuries to find this level of strife. We're staring into the abyss here.
Eww. Yuck at the pair of you. Every time I think there's a depth you won't plumb.
Around Europe realignments happen more frequently, ironic if exiting the EU will lead to a realignment of UK politics. Labour right and conservatve europhiles will join together (maybe with LDs, or what.'s left of them) and there will be a General Election as neither party has enough support in the commons.
As a centrist I know I'm hoping but everything is up on the air and anything can happen.
At which point the Europhile establishment will have gone from being in charge of all 3 main parties at the last general election to just one, a new SDP2, a party which of course only ever managed 3rd place!
They had second rate politicians, if only this time we could have the best and, let's face it, the Corbynite and Leave conservatives are much weaker than those who disagree with them.
Just seen a tweet saying only 20% of those who've signed the petition are in the UK - based on their IP addresses.
Shill, shill, shill.....
Shill, shill, shill....
Lie, undermine, rumour...
Undermine some more....
#Plato_says
I told Plato yesterday that this petition is indeed correct. I can personally vouch for 1.2 million signatures now, and I am furiously getting on with some more.
All of the Brexiteers here were calling for Osborne to be culled for weeks.
Why are they not cheering his absence now?
Because his absence means there is no replacement possible until he actually resigns. If he stood down and a replacement was put in place we could actually get on with stuff.
All of the Brexiteers here were calling for Osborne to be culled for weeks.
Why are they not cheering his absence now?
He can sort out things himself. He can leave and let someone else sort it out.
He cannot hold the reins but do nothing.
I take your point. But it's not unreasonable to assume that somewhere it might have crossed Leaves mind to have a plan of some sort in the event they won is it? Still, thank goodness we have our sovereignty back. What a swell feeling...
"By my reckoning there are 20 Tory MPs who are considering launching a bid. It had been 19 until I heard of the – and I am going to be kind here – rather hopeful ambitions of George Freeman, the minister for life sciences. In the end, I am pretty sure it will boil down to a Boris v Theresa May fight, but as we all know in Tory leadership contests, the front runners rarely triumph.
I think Liam Fox and Andrea Leadsom have a good chance of breaking through, and if Michael Gove decides to stand he will also garner a fair few votes. My instinct is that Nicky Morgan will be the ‘continuity Cameron’ candidate, while George Osborne may well decide to throw his weight (and supporters) behind Boris or Theresa May depending on which one offers him something meaningful. His PPS spent yesterday sounding people out as to whether the Chancellor should run.
I don’t know what he was told, but if MPs were being honest with him, many would have said not to bother. I understand that at least one senior minister, a surefire Osborne supporter, told Osborne’s PPS that he would now be backing Boris. It’s a fickle game, politics, and timing is everything. I fear this is not George Osborne’s time."
Sturgeon says that Scotland will veto UK leaving EU
Wowa, what? Is there a mechanism?
It's this business of Scottish consent being required to repeal the 1972 act. I don't think anyone really knows the legal realities.
So we'd be in a situation after the two year period where the EU thinks we are out, but we still haven't repealed the 72 act?
Parliament can amend or repeal any Act it likes. There is no requirement for multiple- or super-majorities and no provision for any subset of parliament to exercise a veto, other than the Commons and Lords acting as individual Houses.
Sturgeon is talking bollocks, though bollocks that her followers will lap up.
I think the one thing is the Scotland Act, which requires consent from the Scottish Parliament.
There is nothing, interviewer asked her a hypothetical question.
Hm, I heard earlier (maybe yesterday) that there was some things the Scottish Parliament would need to approve, something to do with the preamble to the Scotland Act?
There is nothing Westminster cannot legislate around.
The interviewer asked her about a hypothetical situation where Westminster explicitly made article 50 activation dependent of ratification by all 4 parliaments.
Just seen a tweet saying only 20% of those who've signed the petition are in the UK - based on their IP addresses.
It's absurd anyway, there is no meaningful verification, you could register a vote in the name of your dog... rather like the Labour three quid program in fact
You another who thinks we have the wrong sort of Democracy?
Not at all. We had a vote, we got a legitimate result.
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
@faisalislam: Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"
The biggest dereliction of duty of a government in living memory.
They have a plan, it's called remain. Governments don't have a duty to implement policies of their enemies. Osborne and Carney have implemented the plan too stave off jitters in the city but, beyond that, what can they do?
You Brexit, you Fixit.
So are you saying that Cameron and Osborne should immediately resign ?
It's an idea, but we'd be without any functioning government. I suppose there must be some Domesday plan in place - for, say, if all the Cabinet were assassinated - whereat the monarch steps in and appoints various senior civil servants as an interim government. We're getting to that point.
@faisalislam: Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"
The biggest dereliction of duty of a government in living memory.
They have a plan, it's called remain. Governments don't have a duty to implement policies of their enemies. Osborne and Carney have implemented the plan too stave off jitters in the city but, beyond that, what can they do?
You Brexit, you Fixit.
So are you saying that Cameron and Osborne should immediately resign ?
I'd prefer it, yes.
How can people have confidence in a government that doesn't believe it is going in the right direction? Leadership election asap, get it done.
@faisalislam: Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"
The biggest dereliction of duty of a government in living memory.
They have a plan, it's called remain. Governments don't have a duty to implement policies of their enemies. Osborne and Carney have implemented the plan too stave off jitters in the city but, beyond that, what can they do?
You Brexit, you Fixit.
So are you saying that Cameron and Osborne should immediately resign ?
I imagine he's saying perhaps Leave should have contemplated the possibility they might win and instead of wanking on about immigration for 3 weeks made some plan.
I'm beginning to think some kind of re-vote is on the cards - not primarily to reverse the decision but to ameliorate a constitutional crisis. You have to go back centuries to find this level of strife. We're staring into the abyss here.
... and if the result then is similar do we re-vote again ? More likely tomorrow everyone will go back to work except the soap dodgers, are really who cares what they think
Sturgeon says that Scotland will veto UK leaving EU
Wowa, what? Is there a mechanism?
It's this business of Scottish consent being required to repeal the 1972 act. I don't think anyone really knows the legal realities.
So we'd be in a situation after the two year period where the EU thinks we are out, but we still haven't repealed the 72 act?
Parliament can amend or repeal any Act it likes. There is no requirement for multiple- or super-majorities and no provision for any subset of parliament to exercise a veto, other than the Commons and Lords acting as individual Houses.
Sturgeon is talking bollocks, though bollocks that her followers will lap up.
I think the one thing is the Scotland Act, which requires consent from the Scottish Parliament.
Then Parliament passes a law that says the Scotland Act doesn't apply here.
Parliament is the ultimate source of sovereign power in this country. It can do what it wants.
It is now, or will be once we have left the EU and the ECJs pronouncements are illegal and of no more effect than the "Now wash your hands" statements at the bottom of each shinhy sheet of toilet paper in my school bogs when I was a kid.
SNPers - why do you want to be in a union you do 10% of your trade with, rather than one where you do 65% of your trade?
Why did UK withdraw from a union it does a large amount of its trade with, to a union of zero others it does none of its trade with? Imagined communities, sovereignty, fear of dominance.
No you miss the point.
Only two possible scenarios with Scotland out of the Union and in the EU: ... There is no scenario where an Independent Scotland in the EU has a better trade position overall than a Scotland remaining in the UK.
Agreed. My point is that by the same logic, there is no scenario where the UK has a better trade position after Brexit. Evidently, trade and dry economics don't beat imagined communities, sovereignty and fear of dominance.
Yes there is. There is clearly a better trade position possible if we get EFTA membership and remain in the EEA. That is better as it maintains out trading relationships as before but gives us the ability to strike trade deals outside of the EU. Indeed we would be immediately better as EFTA have a trade deal in place with Canada.
Comments
But once the true extent of just what that vote means, I think democratically we could have another vote, just to make sure everybody, REALLY, REALLY wanted the carnage they have unleashed,
At the very least it would be fun to see Boris, Gove and IDS going round the country again in a bus with "We Never Said That" in huge letters on the side.
And before anyone says "we need to move on and make the best of it", that is exactly what I am proposing.
When you are at the bottom of a very deep, dark hole, making the best of it does not usually involve digging. If there is any possibility of retracing any your steps, that might be a slightly better plan...
Shill, shill, shill....
Lie, undermine, rumour...
Undermine some more....
#Plato_says
There's been a lot of talk about this party maybe, maybe too much talk. This is not a rebel party. This coup is Sunday Bloody Sunday.
I can't believe the news today
I can't close my eyes and make it go away
How long, how long must we have this leader
How long, how long
Tonight we can be as one, tonight
Broken bottles under children's feet
And bodies strewn across a dead end street
But I won't heed the battle call
Puts my back up, my back up against the wall
Sunday bloody Sunday
Sunday bloody Sunday
Sunday bloody Sunday
Sunday bloody Sunday
Alright
I seem to recall hearing you have been unwell.
Glad to see you back posting.
Even in your long life this must be one of the standout moments in time :-)
http://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=131215&area=lon
Does anyone really believe that ?
By comparison Chelsea & Fulham constituency has 12,172 signatures.
Oh please, give me a break from the laughing.
How long before Corbyn comes out with a statement that he has full confidence in himself?
@faisalislam: Conservative Leave MP, Boris backer: "there is no plan. Leave campaign don't have a post Brexit plan, Number 10 should have had one"
"French idea was to make a 2 tier Europe - the 6 and the rest. The 6 have a collective voting agreement and tell the rest what to do. I'm not sure I see that working.."
I agree. That is way too ambitious and has no chance of a quick implementation to head off the problems from nationalism over the next 12 months.
David Cameron: Princes in the Tower
George Osborne:
Boris Johnson: Richard III
? : Richmond
Why are they not cheering his absence now?
David Miliband moving through Heathrow arrivals deep in phone conversation. When is the Batley & Spen candidate selection?
"Number 10 should have had one"
The CS would have had one unless Cammo or Osbo had deliberately vetoed it. Scorched Earth syndrome, but very unprofessional.
Boris Johnson: Lord Halifax as Prime Minister doing a deal
Nigel Farage: sidelined Winston Churchill moaning about foreigners
Darkest timeline.
Only two possible scenarios with Scotland out of the Union and in the EU:
1. UK agrees Single Market Access - Scotland's position regarding trade with the UK and the EU is no different than it was before.
2. UK does not agree Single Market Access. - Scotland has free trade with the EU (£12 billion a year) but no has tariffs on its trade with the UK (£46 billion a year)
There is no scenario where an Independent Scotland in the EU has a better trade position overall than a Scotland remaining in the UK.
He can sort out things himself. He can leave and let someone else sort it out.
He cannot hold the reins but do nothing.
Except us NHS workers luxurating in an extra £350 million being spent on the NHS, yet no work to do what with all the migrants being turned away!
Michael Gove Richard III
Stephen Crabb: Richmond (well, they're both from Pembs)!
You Brexit, you Fixit.
Why are you not asking where he is ?
EDIT
And Mr Corbyn was the members choice.
I know this is difficult for some on here to grasp but here goes:
VOTE LEAVE IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT
OK?
I think Liam Fox and Andrea Leadsom have a good chance of breaking through, and if Michael Gove decides to stand he will also garner a fair few votes. My instinct is that Nicky Morgan will be the ‘continuity Cameron’ candidate, while George Osborne may well decide to throw his weight (and supporters) behind Boris or Theresa May depending on which one offers him something meaningful. His PPS spent yesterday sounding people out as to whether the Chancellor should run.
I don’t know what he was told, but if MPs were being honest with him, many would have said not to bother. I understand that at least one senior minister, a surefire Osborne supporter, told Osborne’s PPS that he would now be backing Boris. It’s a fickle game, politics, and timing is everything. I fear this is not George Osborne’s time."
He has a date in a courtyard after the current falling out..
He described several actions that were taken on Friday
The interviewer asked her about a hypothetical situation where Westminster explicitly made article 50 activation dependent of ratification by all 4 parliaments.
What's currently going on under Boris' blonde wig.
http://gu.com/p/4myah?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Boris as Buckingham and Grayling as Lovell?
How can people have confidence in a government that doesn't believe it is going in the right direction? Leadership election asap, get it done.
(Clutching at straws - I have a small bet)
Thats what I and millions of others voted out for