Angela Leadsom is so lightweight she could float on water. Not walk, mind! And Priti Patel :-D
The dearth of Tory talent will be laid bare over the coming weeks.
Just imagine if Labour did come to its senses.
And replace Corbyn with whom ?
Burnham ? Cooper ? Kendall ? EdM ?
John Mann would be better.
I would back Dan Jarvis to win an overall majority against any post-Cameron Tory leader. And that's despite him being completely unknown. Corbyn is the only thing between the Tories and electoral defeat. It'll be very interesting to see how the unions react to the referendum outcome.
I doubt Dan Jarvis could win a one ticket raffle. Have you ever heard him speak, or seen him interviewed? He's a bigger drip than Ed Miliband.
He's not Corbyn - so that's an immediate boost to the vote; and he would not exactly be up against a colossus.
Remainers need to quickly find common cause with Dan Hannan tory types, and push for a 'unity option' resembling EFTA with some form of emergency brake or option to reduce migration incentives.
Nothing to be gained by criticising the out campaign on immigration anymore. EFTA is still to play for.
We should just press for EEA with full Single Market access and free movement. From a Remain poinf of view it's obviously the next best thing to EU membership.
Also interesting to note that European markets are taking a much bigger beating than London. Madrid and Milan are down 10% each, Paris and Frankfurt 8% each while the FTSE100 is down just 4.5%.
Isn't some of that already reflected in the currency devaluation?
To some degree but he Euro is down about 2% as well vs about 5% for Sterling
Ironically I'm posting whilst having my car washed at my local 5 quid a pop outfit manned by east European immigrants. Wonder how they feel this morning?
Fill your tank today.
Did it yesterday. :-)
Heading up to the People's Republic of Sturgeonia shortly. Wonder what the mood will be like up there....?! :-o
Self congratulating smugness and virtue signalling as usual I'd expect.
Ironically I'm posting whilst having my car washed at my local 5 quid a pop outfit manned by east European immigrants. Wonder how they feel this morning?
Fill your tank today.
Did it yesterday. :-)
Heading up to the People's Republic of Sturgeonia shortly. Wonder what the mood will be like up there....?! :-o
Already FB talk from friends who voted No in Indyref1 that they'll vote Yes to Indyref2. It's shock - many people here dislike Westminster so much that they dislike Brussels less. Reality will then slowly dawn
Remarkable comments by Sadiq Khan saying there is absolutely no need for a General Election with the new PM.
That's amazing for a Labour politician to say. He gave massive assurance about the power of London, its stability and that its the best city in the world. Good for him.
He said he didn't want to see an election? Surely Opposition politicians want an election every time there's a big change?
Remarkable comments by Sadiq Khan saying there is absolutely no need for a General Election with the new PM.
That's amazing for a Labour politician to say. He gave massive assurance about the power of London, its stability and that its the best city in the world. Good for him.
He said he didn't want to see an election? Surely Opposition politicians want an election every time there's a big change?
Angela Eagle losing it with Murnaghan on Sky now.
He did indeed. He said there is absolutely no requirement for an election: that there is a 5 year mandate. Amazing.
I dont know if anyone here remembers the old uk-politics-misc on usenet, long before pb and webforums.
There was a very colourful chap called Bob from the Southend area who used to post unintentionally side splitting rants denouncing the EU and all its works. He died about a decade ago,
It occurs to me that the god of thunder, Wotan, decided to pop down from valhalla.net and make a rather bold intervention over London and Essex yesterday.......
I dont know if anyone here remembers the old uk-politics-misc on usenet, long before pb and webforums.
There was a very colourful chap called Bob from the Southend area who used to post unintentionally side splitting rants denouncing the EU and all its works. He died about a decade ago,
It occurs to me that the god of thunder, Wotan, decided to pop down from valhalla.net and make a rather bold intervention over London and Essex yesterday.......
If half a million weren't able to vote, I'll eat my hat.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Leave campaigned on a clear prospectus. It would be a fraud on the voters not to implement it. I shall watch with interest as Leave attempts to do so.
Up to a point. But 52% can't just triumph over 48%.
There was no prospectus. It was a binary question. Leave the EU or remain. Both sides pointed out why they think it was the best thing to do, but neither where presenting a prospectus of things they would be doing. They werent a government.
Joking aside we may have to move the English capital out of London if we're to federalise ( to save ) the UK. London is now the fifth Home Nation. It might even get it's own work visa system seperate to the UK one. Bors called for as much when he was Mayor. Perhaps a tiny chunk of Westminster could be hived off DC style as a UK capital district.
I suspect my twenty five year relationship with the Tory party will come to an end in the next few months.
Why? You work hard for it and your efforts are appreciated. In the end it was a finely balanced decision as you yourself said. I doubt there are any leaders of the party who you could fundamentally resile from (e.g. I think Boris would be a cr8p PM but he wouldn't be enough to make me leave the party)
If Labour tacked towards a tight immigration line (the antithesis of Corbyn's open borders perspective) and were more socially conservative, it'd galvanise its own supporters and get many a Kipper as well.
If we have two parties with similar views on such things come the election, UKIP might surprise on the upside (for once).
Joking aside we may have to move the English capital out of London if we're to federalise ( to save ) the UK. London is now the fifth Home Nation. It might even get it's own work visa system seperate to the UK one. Bors called for as much when he was Mayor. Perhaps a tiny chunk of Westminster could be hived off DC style as a UK capital district.
I would fully support relocating the capital of the UK to Birmingham.
Also interesting to note that European markets are taking a much bigger beating than London. Madrid and Milan are down 10% each, Paris and Frankfurt 8% each while the FTSE100 is down just 4.5%.
Yep - and that will, of course, have a direct affect on us further down the line given that the EU is our single biggest export market.
The EU has huge structural issues to address around the Eurozone that are not of the UK's making. It is appropriate that their economies have to account for that.
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
It's not a positive to someone who repeatedly watches a eastern European take the job their applied for. Until the political classes understand that they wwc will treat politicians with contempt.
If the next PM moves quickly for an election UKIP will destroy Labour in England and Wales...
Bollocks ! Labour voters still voted for the EU. It is the Tories who could not.
Labour voters delivered the majority for Leave. Ignore that if you wish, but its there. In Rochdale. In Doncaster. In Hartlepool. In Stevenage. In Crawley. In Slough.
In Barnsley,Rotherham Chesterfield, NE Derbyshire, Bolsover too.
Is today's result a polling meltdown that's worse than the GE polling meltdown? What effing use are polls any more?
Not a lot, event the ones that are closest might be there by chance rather than design. It does make me wonder whether market research in general is really worth the candle.
I genuinely don't think that the UK will exist in five years time. The Yugoslavia comparisons being made about the EU are looking in the wrong direction. After a morning when the UK economy has been utterly bitch-slapped, and in the knowledge that it is going to take at least a year for any clarity on the future to emerge, the BoE is going to be walking on eggs, but with inflation set to move up so sharply. they are going to have to raise rates. The UK housing market- a bubble for years- is now going straight back to 1991.
Political risk in the UK is now extremely high- Sterling will not recover any time soon.
I can honestly say that I am no longer sure that Scotland is better off in the UK- and the nex referendum could well be a formality as Scotland exits.
Leanne Wood now saying her own voters have voted wrong.
Another lunatic fingers in her ears....
If you think this vote is going to be anything but terrible for the WWC. As Britain takes a lurch rightwards, and poorer- the WWC are going to get angrier, and blame migrants even more. Intolerance has been unleashed.
So Dave's gone. I'm a little sad. I quite liked him. The Tory party is finished though: it doesn't matter who they elect as leader, in the end the swivel-eyed brigade always manages to wreak havoc. This is a wonderful opportunity for Labour though. They only need to ditch Corbyn and 2020 is there for the taking.
Labour badly need someone who is rooted in their working class vote not a metropolitan elitist which, bizarrely, Corbyn seems to have become. A northerner or Scot would be good. Someone who gets their concerns about immigration.
So Dave's gone. I'm a little sad. I quite liked him. The Tory party is finished though: it doesn't matter who they elect as leader, in the end the swivel-eyed brigade always manages to wreak havoc. This is a wonderful opportunity for Labour though. They only need to ditch Corbyn and 2020 is there for the taking.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Shameful. The Great Wen should be stripped of her capital status.
And the fellow who murdered Jo Cox should have all charges against him dropped?
Come on - spit it out. It's what you think - but do you have the guts to say what you think?
That's uncalled for. Are you drunk?
I haven't had an alcoholic drink since 1997. And if only 1 LEAVER in 10 thinks that Cos's death was justifiable homicide, that's over one-and-a-half million very very angry people. Why is pointing that out uncalled-for?
Remarkable comments by Sadiq Khan saying there is absolutely no need for a General Election with the new PM.
That's amazing for a Labour politician to say. He gave massive assurance about the power of London, its stability and that its the best city in the world. Good for him.
He said he didn't want to see an election? Surely Opposition politicians want an election every time there's a big change?
Angela Eagle losing it with Murnaghan on Sky now.
He did indeed. He said there is absolutely no requirement for an election: that there is a 5 year mandate. Amazing.
CNN by the way.
LOL that's hilarious. Can tell he's no longer an MP.m Labout almost feel like they don't want to be in power.
Cameron's big mistake was going into the negotiations saying he would Remain regardless.
If that had been Thatcher she would've gone there threatening all sorts and come back with a deal.
I've supported Cameron but he was always too polite among elites. His upbringing bred it into him. Thatcher would've turned the fucking tables over.
Too late now. Let's hope things turn out for the best. I'm hopeful for Britain because we are a stoic bunch.
This is true. The problem was that Cameron wasn't actually negotiating. He was stage-managing while telling his people at home that he was fighting for Britain.
People who thought we needed a fundamental shift in relations were right to feel insulted by the whole charade.
He should have just called the referendum without any of the renegotiation nonsense. In or out? At least then we wouldn't have a result tainted by the political failure of the PM.
Labour badly need someone who is rooted in their working class vote not a metropolitan elitist which, bizarrely, Corbyn seems to have become. A northerner or Scot would be good. Someone who gets their concerns about immigration.
Leanne Wood now saying her own voters have voted wrong.
Another lunatic fingers in her ears....
If you think this vote is going to be anything but terrible for the WWC. As Britain takes a lurch rightwards, and poorer- the WWC are going to get angrier, and blame migrants even more. Intolerance has been unleashed.
Intolerance towards the wwc already existed.
They're the people who have been called layabouts who weren't willing to do the jobs etc.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Leave campaigned on a clear prospectus. It would be a fraud on the voters not to implement it. I shall watch with interest as Leave attempts to do so.
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
I'm going to be politically homeless for the first time in my life - can't vote for Corbyn, can't now vote Tory once a Brexiter is installed and please don't anyone suggest Tim Farron!
I genuinely don't think that the UK will exist in five years time. The Yugoslavia comparisons being made about the EU are looking in the wrong direction. After a morning when the UK economy has been utterly bitch-slapped, and in the knowledge that it is going to take at least a year for any clarity on the future to emerge, the BoE is going to be walking on eggs, but with inflation set to move up so sharply. they are going to have to raise rates. The UK housing market- a bubble for years- is now going straight back to 1991.
Political risk in the UK is now extremely high- Sterling will not recover any time soon.
I can honestly say that I am no longer sure that Scotland is better off in the UK- and the nex referendum could well be a formality as Scotland exits.
Project Fear? You boys were not afraid enough
Index down 4% is utterly bitchslapped. You need to get some perspective.
Think Labour and Tories have to learn lessons quick.
Damn right, two parties that have spent decades pitching to swing voters in marginal seats.
The nation gets a referendum where every vote counts, about a thing they at best tolerate, and it gives them a chance to give a kick up the arse to Cameron, Osborne, the government, the establishment, the media, and all the other groups that patronise them. Did the public put their boots on? Yes they did.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Leave campaigned on a clear prospectus. It would be a fraud on the voters not to implement it. I shall watch with interest as Leave attempts to do so.
Up to a point. But 52% can't just triumph over 48%.
Ironically I'm posting whilst having my car washed at my local 5 quid a pop outfit manned by east European immigrants. Wonder how they feel this morning?
You still don't get it , this is exactly why there was such a dramatic WWC turnout. Washing your car for £5 means they are being paid under minimum wage, which results in the the local WWC wages being compressed. Great for you , along with your cleaner/nanny/plumber. Disastrous for those competing in the same low skill space.
They genuinely do not understand how competitive it is at the bottom end of the labour market. Not just for labour but housing, social and private, schooling, dental and medical services.
I would back Dan Jarvis to win an overall majority against any post-Cameron Tory leader. And that's despite him being completely unknown. Corbyn is the only thing between the Tories and electoral defeat. It'll be very interesting to see how the unions react to the referendum outcome.
I doubt Dan Jarvis could win a one ticket raffle. Have you ever heard him speak, or seen him interviewed? He's a bigger drip than Ed Miliband.
Mind you, at least they can put rail renationalisation in the manifesto.
Yay! About time - our railways are shite and that's putting it mildly!
Leanne Wood now saying her own voters have voted wrong.
Another lunatic fingers in her ears....
If you think this vote is going to be anything but terrible for the WWC. As Britain takes a lurch rightwards, and poorer- the WWC are going to get angrier, and blame migrants even more. Intolerance has been unleashed.
Which is why you seem to feel people need a PhD and speak a European language before they get the vote...
People on this board need to understand movements in financial markets. A 'surprise' has happened, there is a new equilibrium path for the economy, financial prices jump (in this case down) to the new path. This transition involves *overshooting* followed by gradual reversal of that overshooting. We have just witnessed the overshooting. If you want to profit medium term yoou now have a buying opportunity.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Leave campaigned on a clear prospectus. It would be a fraud on the voters not to implement it. I shall watch with interest as Leave attempts to do so.
Leave no longer exists.
Wrong, it is the new nasty party in the land of the blind.
I genuinely don't think that the UK will exist in five years time. The Yugoslavia comparisons being made about the EU are looking in the wrong direction. After a morning when the UK economy has been utterly bitch-slapped, and in the knowledge that it is going to take at least a year for any clarity on the future to emerge, the BoE is going to be walking on eggs, but with inflation set to move up so sharply. they are going to have to raise rates. The UK housing market- a bubble for years- is now going straight back to 1991.
Political risk in the UK is now extremely high- Sterling will not recover any time soon.
I can honestly say that I am no longer sure that Scotland is better off in the UK- and the nex referendum could well be a formality as Scotland exits.
Project Fear? You boys were not afraid enough
And the IRA 'hasn't gone away you know'. This is the chance the Republicans have been waiting for to get their way.
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
I'm going to be politically homeless for the first time in my life - can't vote for Corbyn, can't now vote Tory once a Brexiter is installed and please don't anyone suggest Tim Farron!
I thought Farron was quite impressive this morning. But I take your point.
Cameron's big mistake was going into the negotiations saying he would Remain regardless.
If that had been Thatcher she would've gone there threatening all sorts and come back with a deal.
I've supported Cameron but he was always too polite among elites. His upbringing bred it into him. Thatcher would've turned the fucking tables over.
Too late now. Let's hope things turn out for the best. I'm hopeful for Britain because we are a stoic bunch.
This is true. The problem was that Cameron wasn't actually negotiating. He was stage-managing while telling his people at home that he was fighting for Britain.
People who thought we needed a fundamental shift in relations were right to feel insulted by the whole charade.
He should have just called the referendum without any of the renegotiation nonsense. In or out? At least then we wouldn't have a result tainted by the political failure of the PM.
I agree. It was badly done.
Cameron made a mess of it, he's now gone and it's time to move on.
Tony Blair's famous kaleidoscopic pieces are certainly 'in flux', for all the main parties!
Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record
But is this not because of the surprise factor? You can see that the market rallied as the traders (wrongly) thought Remain had it.
In dollar terms, the FTSE 250 has lost a fifth of its value.
The betting question is whether we have gone straight to a level of support, or whether next week the downward plunge will continue?
When should I dive back into the market? Any city folk (or 'experts') with any tips?
It's hard to judge. My own feeling is that there must be new lows coming down the road - I would be surprised if we have gone straight to the bottom overnight and now the only way is up. By my judgment is probably clouded by disappointment at the vote.
Joking aside we may have to move the English capital out of London if we're to federalise ( to save ) the UK. London is now the fifth Home Nation. It might even get it's own work visa system seperate to the UK one. Bors called for as much when he was Mayor. Perhaps a tiny chunk of Westminster could be hived off DC style as a UK capital district.
Mr. Bob, I agree with Mr. F. Morsi won a free and fair election, then started acting like he was Pharaoh. Important to try and heal divisions and take account of the very many people who voted to Remain.
Remainers need to quickly find common cause with Dan Hannan tory types, and push for a 'unity option' resembling EFTA with some form of emergency brake or option to reduce migration incentives.
Nothing to be gained by criticising the out campaign on immigration anymore. EFTA is still to play for.
We have the opportunity to alter our welfare system. It is *our* fault that in work benefits and universal benefits act as a pull. We can change that.
He should have just called the referendum without any of the renegotiation nonsense. In or out? At least then we wouldn't have a result tainted by the political failure of the PM.
Or even forgot the renegotiation and attempted to sell the EU on it's merits.
The lemmings led by the unemployed and retired have thrown themselves off the cliff . They will destroy the economy of this country on the rocks below but will be able to chant No More Immigrants on the way down .
Labour badly need someone who is rooted in their working class vote not a metropolitan elitist which, bizarrely, Corbyn seems to have become. A northerner or Scot would be good. Someone who gets their concerns about immigration.
A Scot??? Good trolling....
well to get back their scottish support no? Or if not someone in touch with their core working class vote
Unelected Pm leading biggest negotiations. Not good.
Oh FFs not this again !!!
Brown signed Lisbon FFS but no complaints then or is it only Labour leaders that can take momentous decisions behind closed doors against the will of the voters having refused a referendum that was originally offered in the manifesto?
Mr. Sandpit, no idea. He'd've won convincingly. I can only assume it was complacent arrogance.
I think it's very important that our 'destination' is agreed as soon as possible. While our destination is unknown, investment decisions will be put on hold, which could tip the economy into recession.
Having won the referendum on the anti-immigration votes of the WWC I cannot see how anything but "completely out" is going to wash.
If Leave maintain Freedom of Movement then then Remainers are going to feel they cheated their way to a win and half their own supporters are going to be incandescent. I just can't see it. It looks like "completely out" to me
I can honestly say that I am no longer sure that Scotland is better off in the UK
This is the problem with emotions running high combined with a lack of sleep. None of the problems the SNP had before- defence, foreign affairs, etc.- have ceased to exist.
Nobody yet knows what deal the UK will get, but if Scotland leaves before exit negotiations are complete it goes straight to the back of the queue for membership (including access to the Single Market). rUK is by far a more important market than the EU for Scotland, whether exports or imports. rUK currently subsidises Scotland to the tune of £8bn per year, and unless Germany doubles its net contribution and diverts it all towards Scotland, that money isn't being replaced by the EU.
At the end of the day, Britain is a functioning state whether it leaves the EU or remains in it: Scotland isn't, and hasn't been for 300 years.
He should have just called the referendum without any of the renegotiation nonsense. In or out? At least then we wouldn't have a result tainted by the political failure of the PM.
Or even forgot the renegotiation and attempted to sell the EU on it's merits.
That's what said, isn't it? (Sorry, I'm very tired.)
I fundamentally disagree with those calling for London to become separate from England.
Do that, and pressure will grow, perhaps slowly, perhaps quickly, for the same in Cornwall. In Yorkshire, and likely elsewhere. Before you know it, England will be riddled with devolved dividing lines. Demagogues could easily get themselves elected as mayors/first ministers (Londoners complaining about sending tax revenue elsewhere, Yorkshiremen complaining that more gets spent per head in London despite its prosperity etc).
A knee-jerk reaction to wrench the capital of England out of England would be as unwise as Blair's method of killing Scottish nationalism stone dead.
Remainers need to quickly find common cause with Dan Hannan tory types, and push for a 'unity option' resembling EFTA with some form of emergency brake or option to reduce migration incentives.
Nothing to be gained by criticising the out campaign on immigration anymore. EFTA is still to play for.
We have the opportunity to alter our welfare system. It is *our* fault that in work benefits and universal benefits act as a pull. We can change that.
Yep... Whether anyone will be willing to use this sole opportunity to do just that is however a very difficult question...
The lemmings led by the unemployed and retired have thrown themselves off the cliff . They will destroy the economy of this country on the rocks below but will be able to chant No More Immigrants on the way down .
Labour badly need someone who is rooted in their working class vote not a metropolitan elitist which, bizarrely, Corbyn seems to have become. A northerner or Scot would be good. Someone who gets their concerns about immigration.
A Scot??? Good trolling....
well to get back their scottish support no? Or if not someone in touch with their core working class vote
Joking aside we may have to move the English capital out of London if we're to federalise ( to save ) the UK. London is now the fifth Home Nation. It might even get it's own work visa system seperate to the UK one. Bors called for as much when he was Mayor. Perhaps a tiny chunk of Westminster could be hived off DC style as a UK capital district.
That all seems sensible.
Especially as it will save billions on refurbishing Parliament...
Where does all of this leave the polling industry? Will anyone ever take the big pollsters serious ever again?
The polls didn't do badly overall (obviously Populus will want to forget yesterday's effort). They said the race was very close and so it was. Anyone who acted on that and did the obvious - ie, backed the 3/1 dog - made money.
Unelected Pm leading biggest negotiations. Not good.
Oh FFs not this again !!!
Brown signed Lisbon FFS but no complaints then or is it only Labour leaders that can take momentous decisions behind closed doors against the will of the voters having refused a referendum that was originally offered in the manifesto?
Mr. Sandpit, no idea. He'd've won convincingly. I can only assume it was complacent arrogance.
I think it's very important that our 'destination' is agreed as soon as possible. While our destination is unknown, investment decisions will be put on hold, which could tip the economy into recession.
Having won the referendum on the anti-immigration votes of the WWC I cannot see how anything but "completely out" is going to wash.
If Leave maintain Freedom of Movement then then Remainers are going to feel they cheated their way to a win and half their own supporters are going to be incandescent. I just can't see it. It looks like "completely out" to me
That's the key problem both sides now face. There would be a handsome majority in the country for an EFTA-style solution but because the WWC came out in numbers to swing the vote, Leave are beholden to them. It's an absolute clusterf**k
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
"inconveniently honest"? Really Nick? Are you suggesting there are times it is right to lie to the voters?
Joking aside we may have to move the English capital out of London if we're to federalise ( to save ) the UK. London is now the fifth Home Nation. It might even get it's own work visa system seperate to the UK one. Bors called for as much when he was Mayor. Perhaps a tiny chunk of Westminster could be hived off DC style as a UK capital district.
That all seems sensible.
Scotland and London could go it alone together. We could rename it Berwick upon Thames.
In Boston the resentment was running deep, but it was ignored. The incomers are not aliens, they integrate well and soon learn the language, but having class sizes soaring while the people telling you you're racist send their children to fee-paying schools irritates.
There are racists around, but they don't number17 million. Smearing all of them makes the metropolitan etc feel good about themselves but it doesn't win votes.
There are good things about the EU, but tomorrow is another day. It's up to us to embrace it.
Tony Blair on SKY looking ever more like that top Gestapo guy at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, as he gets the life sucked out of him when the Ark is opened....
The lemmings led by the unemployed and retired have thrown themselves off the cliff . They will destroy the economy of this country on the rocks below but will be able to chant No More Immigrants on the way down .
Most sensible economists haven't been predicting immediate disaster. We've no idea what happens or what a UK government will do. I keep hearing this apocalyptic talk from fellow remainers but no substance to back it up. I think we should calm down a bit.
Comments
I think LEAVE is a better result than a narrow REMAIN for Labour.
But it has to change tack on immigration in order to be successful.
John Mcdonnell seems to understand this hope the Blairites do too.
Tory lite MPs will not want Corbyn to succeed either.
Angela Eagle losing it with Murnaghan on Sky now.
CNN by the way.
Another lunatic fingers in her ears....
There was a very colourful chap called Bob from the Southend area who used to post unintentionally side splitting rants denouncing the EU and all its works. He died about a decade ago,
It occurs to me that the god of thunder, Wotan, decided to pop down from valhalla.net and make a rather bold intervention over London and Essex yesterday.......
Voters from both sides on BBC not happy about it, shocked even.
If Labour tacked towards a tight immigration line (the antithesis of Corbyn's open borders perspective) and were more socially conservative, it'd galvanise its own supporters and get many a Kipper as well.
If we have two parties with similar views on such things come the election, UKIP might surprise on the upside (for once).
If that had been Thatcher she would've gone there threatening all sorts and come back with a deal.
I've supported Cameron but he was always too polite among elites. His upbringing bred it into him. Thatcher would've turned the fucking tables over.
Too late now. Let's hope things turn out for the best. I'm hopeful for Britain because we are a stoic bunch.
Political risk in the UK is now extremely high- Sterling will not recover any time soon.
I can honestly say that I am no longer sure that Scotland is better off in the UK- and the nex referendum could well be a formality as Scotland exits.
Project Fear? You boys were not afraid enough
I'd say one in 100k is more like it.
Labout almost feel like they don't want to be in power.
People who thought we needed a fundamental shift in relations were right to feel insulted by the whole charade.
He should have just called the referendum without any of the renegotiation nonsense. In or out? At least then we wouldn't have a result tainted by the political failure of the PM.
They're the people who have been called layabouts who weren't willing to do the jobs etc.
Yesterday was the an act of retaliation.
HS2 can go as well.
The nation gets a referendum where every vote counts, about a thing they at best tolerate, and it gives them a chance to give a kick up the arse to Cameron, Osborne, the government, the establishment, the media, and all the other groups that patronise them. Did the public put their boots on? Yes they did.
A 'surprise' has happened, there is a new equilibrium path for the economy, financial prices jump (in this case down) to the new path. This transition involves *overshooting* followed by gradual reversal of that overshooting. We have just witnessed the overshooting. If you want to profit medium term yoou now have a buying opportunity.
Cameron made a mess of it, he's now gone and it's time to move on.
Tony Blair's famous kaleidoscopic pieces are certainly 'in flux', for all the main parties!
If Leave maintain Freedom of Movement then then Remainers are going to feel they cheated their way to a win and half their own supporters are going to be incandescent. I just can't see it. It looks like "completely out" to me
Nobody yet knows what deal the UK will get, but if Scotland leaves before exit negotiations are complete it goes straight to the back of the queue for membership (including access to the Single Market). rUK is by far a more important market than the EU for Scotland, whether exports or imports. rUK currently subsidises Scotland to the tune of £8bn per year, and unless Germany doubles its net contribution and diverts it all towards Scotland, that money isn't being replaced by the EU.
At the end of the day, Britain is a functioning state whether it leaves the EU or remains in it: Scotland isn't, and hasn't been for 300 years.
I hope an export boom is triggered.
Do that, and pressure will grow, perhaps slowly, perhaps quickly, for the same in Cornwall. In Yorkshire, and likely elsewhere. Before you know it, England will be riddled with devolved dividing lines. Demagogues could easily get themselves elected as mayors/first ministers (Londoners complaining about sending tax revenue elsewhere, Yorkshiremen complaining that more gets spent per head in London despite its prosperity etc).
A knee-jerk reaction to wrench the capital of England out of England would be as unwise as Blair's method of killing Scottish nationalism stone dead.
CNN
"...the same Chancellor who told me on Monday that there were no Treasury plans for Brexit. In that one sentence, he displayed such arrogance and a gross dereliction of duty. In some ways I hope he was lying to me. "
http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/06/iain-dale-bigger-than-thatchers-fall-bigger-than-black-wednesday-this-is-most-momentous-domestic-political-event-of-my-adult-life.html
In Boston the resentment was running deep, but it was ignored. The incomers are not aliens, they integrate well and soon learn the language, but having class sizes soaring while the people telling you you're racist send their children to fee-paying schools irritates.
There are racists around, but they don't number17 million. Smearing all of them makes the metropolitan etc feel good about themselves but it doesn't win votes.
There are good things about the EU, but tomorrow is another day. It's up to us to embrace it.