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edited June 2016 in General

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  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,260
    Boom
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,523
    Good God, what have we done?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    2015 a pyrric victory.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,828
    Poor bugger
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,523
    edited June 2016
    MyBurningEars said:

    This header was quick off the blocks. Colour me impressed.

    Almost like someone tipped Mike off because they were told by his friends at CCHQ that Dave was going
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827
    Next betting event - leadership contest :)
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,260
    Can I express my thanks and admiration at the turnaround of threads overnight - a truly stellar job
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,818
    Sandpit said:

    Next betting event - leadership contest :)

    tory or labour at this rate?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    One thing to note: he flagged that there wasn't going to be a reshuffle before Monday. Might he work on the basis that no reshuffle is necessary until his successor is found?

    It would conveniently leave Boris Johnson lacking any kind of ministerial experience...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,157
    For a brief, sweet moment, as I woke up just now, I imagined it was still all to play for. Then I remembered. Shit.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,967
    Now we're going to have a further period of uncertainty. And quite possibly it'll be another nasty public argument.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,054
    FPT: Probably wise of Cameron to let Article 50's timing be the decision of his successor.

    Just over a year ago, he won a staggering victory in the General Election. Hubris and Nemesis, once again.

    On-topic: please vote for Priti Patel or Justine Greening. I've got small stakes on them at 50/1 each.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    So Boris really will be doing the deal. I find that genuinely frightening.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,306
    MyBurningEars said:

    Not the way to calm the markets though is it? Wait til 15 mins after they open. Then be a bit late. Then make a brief announcement that lays out relatively little detail, and increase the uncertainty by making clear that Mystery Person X will be PM and running the negotiations by October...

    Exactly.

    Dave sticking the knife in.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,317
    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,828
    SouthamObserver said:

    So Boris really will be doing the deal. I find that genuinely frightening.

    I really hope not.
  • mr-claypolemr-claypole Posts: 218
    One thing we can all agree is no one has a clue how things will turn out next.

    Time to pull out those Boris two referendum quotes
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,489
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Can I express my thanks and admiration at the turnaround of threads overnight - a truly stellar job

    Seconded. Well done to TSE and OGH. Superb editing over this campaign.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    Boris!
  • JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488
    Great call by Cameron. After grubbing around in the gutter he has crawled out and stood a little taller.

    Of course, had he not got into the gutter in the first place but remained above it he might have stayed on today.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,180
    I'm not feeling terribly settled at the moment.

    What a fucking mess.

    I'm glad I voted Remain. At least I'll have the moral high ground.

    What have the 17m done?
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    SouthamObserver said:

    So Boris really will be doing the deal. I find that genuinely frightening.

    I don't know. Boris doesn't have much of a constituency in the PCP.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    Light relief

    Fox News reporting the UK has voted to leave the "UN" https://t.co/AGXXNb2neh
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Good God, what have we done?

    We've spoken, life will go on.

    If you're in any way surprised then I'm surprised, some of us have been predicting this since the referendum was announced.

    Its hardly Sol Campbell leaving Spurs for Arsenal, its simply a self serving careerist accepting his fate, no big deal.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,523
    Text from a left wing friend.

    How has it come to pass that I'm upset at a Tory PM quitting
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    Unelected Pm leading biggest negotiations. Not good.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Priti for leader!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Boris is going to be so hated this time next year.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Good God, what have we done?

    We've asserted our right to self determination, and Cameron has nobody to blame but himself.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827
    Why the hell did Cameron not campaign in the referendum with the same manner he just spoke outside number 10?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,124
    Casino_Royale said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Can I express my thanks and admiration at the turnaround of threads overnight - a truly stellar job

    Seconded. Well done to TSE and OGH. Superb editing over this campaign.
    Are they going to circulate a whip around to help pay for the sites fees?

    Well done TSE last night
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,828
    Jonathan said:

    Unelected Pm leading biggest negotiations. Not good.

    Could be an early election to get legitimacy...
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,180
    Still don't think we'll actually leave by the way....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited June 2016
    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record:

    https://twitter.com/PatrickMcGee_/status/746242959058800640
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    ThreeQuidder said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Good God, what have we done?

    We've asserted our right to self determination, and Cameron has nobody to blame but himself.

    Yep, he has reaped what he sowed.

  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,421
    If Cameron had been a man of his word and backed Leave he would now be the new Churchill.

    Instead he's the new Chamberlain.
  • mr-claypolemr-claypole Posts: 218
    Jonathan said:

    Light relief

    Fox News reporting the UK has voted to leave the "UN" https://t.co/AGXXNb2neh

    only the security council
  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    Dave&co (plus most lab MPs, excepting Jezza) have little sympathy with the people of this country.

    Best he goes now.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,489
    JohnO said:

    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.

    What are your thoughts on a potential leader, John?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,523
    JohnO said:

    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.

    Me too.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    SouthamObserver said:

    Boris is going to be so hated this time next year.

    Said in valley girl accent.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Should he be censured for misleading the House?

    He was asked repeatedly if he would resign if it was a Leave vote and he said he wouldn't .
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,376
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record

    But is this not because of the surprise factor? You can see that the market rallied as the traders (wrongly) thought Remain had it.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    FPT

    Boris in the end proved himself as an asset in the campaign, so it would make sense that he becomes next prime minister, Gove as Chancellor perhaps, and I can certainly see a negotiated deal involving some sort of EFTA type option, to be approved in a general election soon after.

    UKIP will not be dead after this, Farage has a good couple years ahead.

    Inevitable that Cameron resigned, a good speech from him, his voice broke a little towards the end.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,066
    Bob__Sykes said:

    Still don't think we'll actually leave by the way....

    Likewise, I suspect we'll end up with the associate membership Cameron rejected
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    Jonathan said:

    Light relief

    Fox News reporting the UK has voted to leave the "UN" https://t.co/AGXXNb2neh

    That comes next I imagine :)
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Well. I did say I didn't believe those polls! Blinking heck.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,828
    Alistair said:

    Should he be censured for misleading the House?

    He was asked repeatedly if he would resign if it was a Leave vote and he said he wouldn't .

    Circumstances change?
  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 509
    Won't hold my breath for Junker or Martin Schulz to step down.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Bob__Sykes said:

    I'm not feeling terribly settled at the moment.

    What a fucking mess.

    I'm glad I voted Remain. At least I'll have the moral high ground.

    What have the 17m done?

    Snap.

    Now to work. Uncertainty. = opportunity
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    tlg86 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record

    But is this not because of the surprise factor? You can see that the market rallied as the traders (wrongly) thought Remain had it.
    The difference between the two is the game show host's line "this is what you could have had".
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record:

    https://twitter.com/PatrickMcGee_/status/746242959058800640

    Great stuff - mainly British companies. But dreadful ones that export to the EU and employ lots of people, so it's OK.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,930
    JohnO said:

    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.

    That really would be Sophie's choice.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,066
    Sandpit said:

    Why the hell did Cameron not campaign in the referendum with the same manner he just spoke outside number 10?

    because he listened to George Mephistopheles
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Sell Ruth Davidson buy Andrea Leadsom.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Jonathan said:

    Unelected Pm leading biggest negotiations. Not good.

    Oh FFs not this again !!!

    Brown signed Lisbon FFS but no complaints then or is it only Labour leaders that can take momentous decisions behind closed doors against the will of the voters having refused a referendum that was originally offered in the manifesto?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT
    AlastairMeeks said:

    One thing to note: he flagged that there wasn't going to be a reshuffle before Monday. Might he work on the basis that no reshuffle is necessary until his successor is found?

    It would conveniently leave Boris Johnson lacking any kind of ministerial experience...

    he said something like 'my Cabinet and I will continue to work for the next 3 months'

    I may be over-reading it, but I took that as no reshuffle before the new leadership is selected
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SouthamObserver said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record:

    https://twitter.com/PatrickMcGee_/status/746242959058800640

    Great stuff - mainly British companies. But dreadful ones that export to the EU and employ lots of people, so it's OK.

    I think you'll find 94% of British companies don't export to the EU. So that's alright then.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,930
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Text from a left wing friend.

    How has it come to pass that I'm upset at a Tory PM quitting

    Because Jeremy Corbyn is their leader.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    MaxPB said:

    JohnO said:

    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.

    That really would be Sophie's choice.
    For most of us, no choice.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MyBurningEars said:

    This header was quick off the blocks. Colour me impressed.

    Not much detail though!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    JohnO said:

    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.

    They will be on the same ticket IMHO.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,054
    Mr. Sykes, what do you think will happen?

    Associate membership?

    Mr. Sandpit, no idea. He'd've won convincingly. I can only assume it was complacent arrogance.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,376
    When do you think William Hill will pay out on Cameron to go in 2016?

    Oh, and Anna Soubry should leave the Tory Party.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Charles said:

    FPT

    AlastairMeeks said:

    One thing to note: he flagged that there wasn't going to be a reshuffle before Monday. Might he work on the basis that no reshuffle is necessary until his successor is found?

    It would conveniently leave Boris Johnson lacking any kind of ministerial experience...

    he said something like 'my Cabinet and I will continue to work for the next 3 months'

    I may be over-reading it, but I took that as no reshuffle before the new leadership is selected
    That was my reading too. That does look like one last-ditch attempt to hinder Boris Johnson (as per my thread header the other day).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137
    edited June 2016
    tlg86 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record

    But is this not because of the surprise factor? You can see that the market rallied as the traders (wrongly) thought Remain had it.
    In dollar terms, the FTSE 250 has lost a fifth of its value.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,930
    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    JohnO said:

    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.

    That really would be Sophie's choice.
    For most of us, no choice.
    A bit like Brown then.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Candidates: Boris, Andrea Leadsom, Theresa May, Hammond, Gove, Javid, Priti Patel, Nicky Morgan, Anna Soubry.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,163
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record:

    https://twitter.com/PatrickMcGee_/status/746242959058800640

    No worry , the vultures will be along soon
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,086
    edited June 2016
    He was the architect of his own misfortune sadly.

    Once Cameron had opened the Pandora's box of the referendum to appease the fruitcakes in his party, this die was cast.

    Anyway, for a Tory, I actually quite like Cameron. He played a blinder at CHOGM in 2015 for which I will always be eternally thankful.

    All those folks who are crying about Brexit - who did you vote for in GE 15? - you had a clear choice between Euro sceptic parties and pro EU parties.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,066
    Mandelson still living in metropolitan luvvy world as if the vote never happened
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,961
    Cameron virtually in tears at the end of his speech. Totally destroyed and to be remembered as a complete failure...

    A sad end.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Sandpit said:

    Why the hell did Cameron not campaign in the referendum with the same manner he just spoke outside number 10?

    Good question.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    JohnO said:

    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.

    That really would be Sophie's choice.
    For most of us, no choice.
    A bit like Brown then.
    Yes, how did that work out?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,489
    AndyJS said:

    Candidates: Boris, Andrea Leadsom, Theresa May, Hammond, Gove, Javid, Priti Patel, Nicky Morgan, Anna Soubry.

    Theresa May is in a good position.

    I do wonder if Andrea Leadsom might just run.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,324
    Hoey: No need to invoke Article 50 yet. We need time to talk to Canada, Australia etc.

    It's fantasy land...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827
    Charles said:

    FPT

    AlastairMeeks said:

    One thing to note: he flagged that there wasn't going to be a reshuffle before Monday. Might he work on the basis that no reshuffle is necessary until his successor is found?

    It would conveniently leave Boris Johnson lacking any kind of ministerial experience...

    he said something like 'my Cabinet and I will continue to work for the next 3 months'

    I may be over-reading it, but I took that as no reshuffle before the new leadership is selected
    That was the impression he gave with the speech. Still not sure how Osborne stays on though, the markets can't have any confidence in him after the hyperbole of the campaign.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited June 2016
    AlastairMeeks said:

    tlg86 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record

    But is this not because of the surprise factor? You can see that the market rallied as the traders (wrongly) thought Remain had it.
    The difference between the two is the game show host's line "this is what you could have had".
    The democratic majority opened the box and decided rightly or wrongly, they didn't like the booby prize on offer.

    EDIT - sorry I will rewrite that

    The democratic majority racist xenophobic little Englanders opened the box and decided rightly or wrongly, they didn't like the booby prize on offer.

    Perhaps that's more to your liking?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,831
    RobD said:

    Poor bugger

    I've been critical of Cameron, but it is sad to his career end like this. He did give us the Referendum, after all.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Sykes, what do you think will happen?

    Associate membership?

    Mr. Sandpit, no idea. He'd've won convincingly. I can only assume it was complacent arrogance.

    I think it's very important that our 'destination' is agreed as soon as possible. While our destination is unknown, investment decisions will be put on hold, which could tip the economy into recession.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,066
    Mandelson now knifing Corbyn
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Moses_ said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    tlg86 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record

    But is this not because of the surprise factor? You can see that the market rallied as the traders (wrongly) thought Remain had it.
    The difference between the two is the game show host's line "this is what you could have had".
    The democratic majority opened the box and decided rightly or wrongly, they didn't like the booby prize on offer.
    Isn't ANYONE going to mention Monty Hall?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,828
    williamglenn said:

    Hoey: No need to invoke Article 50 yet. We need time to talk to Canada, Australia etc.

    It's fantasy land...

    Cameron has said he won't push it. So it won't be done before October at the earliest.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,054
    Mr. Moses, if Labour had honoured their manifesto pledge for a referendum (on Lisbon) I imagine we'd've rejected it, and still be in the EU.

    People, I'd guess, felt taken for granted and ignored for too long. Soubry on the BBC said a layer of tolerance had been removed, but that's partly because their concerns have been ignored, ridiculed or condemned as racist/xenophobic for so long. You can't persuade someone to vote for you by jabbing a finger their way and shouting their view is bigoted.

    Will Corbyn go? Labour actually decapitating a leader might be the most surprising story today.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,828
    GIN1138 said:

    Cameron virtually in tears at the end of his speech. Totally destroyed and to be remembered as a complete failure...

    A sad end.

    Making this old duffer sad just thinking about it :(
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,205
    rcs1000 said:

    tlg86 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record

    But is this not because of the surprise factor? You can see that the market rallied as the traders (wrongly) thought Remain had it.
    In dollar terms, the FTSE 250 has lost a fifth of its value.
    Some great bargains for the brave....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,398
    Great speech by Dave. As ever. He does those well.

    This one even more genuine than previously. You know what they say about sincerity..

    And the right thing to do. I think he will be remembered as a great PM. Certainly an interesting one, for future exam questions.

    And now? The candidates? Dear god help us all.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,523
    I suspect my twenty five year relationship with the Tory party will come to an end in the next few months.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Charles said:

    FPT

    AlastairMeeks said:

    One thing to note: he flagged that there wasn't going to be a reshuffle before Monday. Might he work on the basis that no reshuffle is necessary until his successor is found?

    It would conveniently leave Boris Johnson lacking any kind of ministerial experience...

    he said something like 'my Cabinet and I will continue to work for the next 3 months'

    I may be over-reading it, but I took that as no reshuffle before the new leadership is selected
    That was my reading too. That does look like one last-ditch attempt to hinder Boris Johnson (as per my thread header the other day).
    Not sure - suspect it is to promote stability. Makes no sense to reshuffle now & in 3 months. People will vote for or against Boris and won't change their mind based on 3 months ministerial experience
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,828
    BoE statement on BBC
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,137
    Casino_Royale said:

    AndyJS said:

    Candidates: Boris, Andrea Leadsom, Theresa May, Hammond, Gove, Javid, Priti Patel, Nicky Morgan, Anna Soubry.

    Theresa May is in a good position.

    I do wonder if Andrea Leadsom might just run.
    While she had a good campaign, I just can't see her having the profile.

    It's hard to see past Johnson and May, or possibly Hammond.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,421
    Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,032
    Casino_Royale said:

    AndyJS said:

    Candidates: Boris, Andrea Leadsom, Theresa May, Hammond, Gove, Javid, Priti Patel, Nicky Morgan, Anna Soubry.

    Theresa May is in a good position.

    I do wonder if Andrea Leadsom might just run.
    I think it is too early for Andrea. As a member I would vote Teresa out of that list
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I suspect my twenty five year relationship with the Tory party will come to an end in the next few months.

    Lib Dems and Mr Farron await ?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,226
    Thank you, Mr Cameron, for giving us the referendum you promised.

    The price it costs to regain democracy gets higher & higher the longer we leave it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,827
    edited June 2016
    Mark Carney next to speak. He's got a big speech to make.

    FTSE climbing, less than 5% off now.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,392
    The Labour party seem a bit stunned. John Mann and Gillian Duffy had been telling them, but they knew better.

    How does the saying go? What do they know of England, who only London know?

    Anyway, time for reflection and analysis.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,927
    edited June 2016
    GIN1138 said:

    Cameron virtually in tears at the end of his speech. Totally destroyed and to be remembered as a complete failure...

    A sad end.

    Will he? He will get kudos for having the balls to call the referendum in the first place; then had the dignity to fall on his sword when he lost it. Also, there's successfully forming a coalition in 2010 and winning a majority in 2015, the first Tory one in 23 years.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Sterling has taken a beating but the Euro has too I see.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,317
    Casino_Royale said:

    JohnO said:

    If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.

    What are your thoughts on a potential leader, John?
    Hi Casino, Congrats on the outcome (to which I was resigned last week would happen by a 3-4% margin). But to answer your question, I honestly have no idea at the moment - I'm feeling quite detached and almost an on-looker in the party (not that I am doing a flounce)
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