IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Gove's patronage is now very important. As the intellectual weight of the leave campaign his willingness to back any particular candidate would see them into a good position.
He could well be kingmaker, and angle for CoE. Not sure he would want Boris though
I would still favour Gove as an interim PM until 2018, when the candidates to take the party and hopefully the country into the 2020's can be explored.....
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
That's a very balanced response Sean.
Now the deed is done, could you return to the Conservative fold?
Well, UKIP's purpose is done.
Good point. What does UKIP do now? Thats a lot of votes for the tories, or labour to hoover up.
Or a new party, or do UKIP morph into something else?
I'd have thought UKIP may aim to reposition itself to replace Labour with the WWC.
Feasible? Perhaps not with Farage and perhaps not if Labour get some leaders who are connected to the electorate rather than to their metro-activists and far-lefters.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
That's a very balanced response Sean.
Now the deed is done, could you return to the Conservative fold?
Well, UKIP's purpose is done.
Good point. What does UKIP do now? Thats a lot of votes for the tories, or labour to hoover up.
Or a new party, or do UKIP morph into something else?
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Leave campaigned on a clear prospectus. It would be a fraud on the voters not to implement it. I shall watch with interest as Leave attempts to do so.
Mr. D, quite. The idea it's acceptable for Northern Ireland, Scotland and London to 'steamroller' England (ex-London) and Wales but that the reverse is abhorrent displays contempt for democracy. It's that kind of attitude which has, I feel, helped sew bitterness and made it harder for Remain to do well.
It's also the anger of those who left school at 14, 15 or 16 against graduates.
If Corbyn had any decency he would resign also. But he won't.
Can we have a government of national unity with sensible MPs from both sides?
I don't see what Corbyn has done wrong, his honesty about the EU was one of the reasons I felt able to vote remain.
He has generally been against the EU, yet felt compelled to campaign for remain for party reasons. He did so lacklusterly, and did not deliver the Labour vote.
Conversely, Cameron fought for what he felt was right as hard as he could.
Cameron led and lost. Corbyn did not lead and lost. Both losers yesterday, but at least one of them tried.
I doubt Labour - especially their MPs - are going to forgive Corbyn.
Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlsain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
"Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlsai"
No, that was Brown. You do remember his skulking signing of the Lisbon treaty?
"he offered the electorate an option"
I can understand why a loser such as yourself might not like democracy. I'm just glad he gave us a choice.
Mr Meeks - I work in WC2B, but will never be able to live anywhere near there. Perhaps the great and the good who can afford to live in Zone 1 are more enlightened about the world than people like me. But I think you need to be asking "why, if Remain was such a clear cut answer, could the Remain side not sell it to the masses who don't live in Zone 1?"
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
If it had been remain, surely it'd just be steamrollering the rest of England?
Maybe but where is the money generated? The Capital always has a huge sway (in whatever country you talk about).
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
It's not a positive to someone who repeatedly watches a eastern European take the job their applied for. Until the political classes understand that they wwc will treat politicians with contempt.
If the next PM moves quickly for an election UKIP will destroy Labour in England and Wales...
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
But look at the positive side. The first bundle of £350m will be delivered to the NHS today !
Candidates: Boris, Andrea Leadsom, Theresa May, Hammond, Gove, Javid, Priti Patel, Nicky Morgan, Anna Soubry.
Theresa May is in a good position.
I do wonder if Andrea Leadsom might just run.
She would be my pick. Thatcher Mk2 IMO.
I like Leadsom too.
I think the Leave tory MPs might coalesce around one candidate, and have a repeat of the Howard election, where the MPs effectively decide the contest, only offering one candidate to the membership.
Angela Leadsom is so lightweight she could float on water. Not walk, mind! And Priti Patel :-D
The dearth of Tory talent will be laid bare over the coming weeks.
Just imagine if Labour did come to its senses.
And replace Corbyn with whom ?
Burnham ? Cooper ? Kendall ? EdM ?
John Mann would be better.
I would back Dan Jarvis to win an overall majority against any post-Cameron Tory leader. And that's despite him being completely unknown. Corbyn is the only thing between the Tories and electoral defeat. It'll be very interesting to see how the unions react to the referendum outcome.
Mr Meeks - I work in WC2B, but will never be able to live anywhere near there. Perhaps the great and the good who can afford to live in Zone 1 are more enlightened about the world than people like me. But I think you need to be asking "why, if Remain was such a clear cut answer, could the Remain side not sell it to the masses who don't live in Zone 1?"
Oh the Remain campaign had many flaws. But given the choice between duffers and rogues, I will direct my anger first at the rogues.
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
It's not a positive to someone who repeatedly watches a eastern European take the job their applied for. Until the political classes understand that they wwc will treat politicians with contempt.
If the next PM moves quickly for an election UKIP will destroy Labour in England and Wales...
Bollocks ! Labour voters still voted for the EU. It is the Tories who could not.
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
It's not a positive to someone who repeatedly watches a eastern European take the job their applied for. Until the political classes understand that they wwc will treat politicians with contempt.
If the next PM moves quickly for an election UKIP will destroy Labour in England and Wales...
It's also not really a positive if there's no job there to take.
Mr. Eek, a purple tsunami is possible, but with us negotiating to leave that may shoot UKIP's fox.
Mr. Abroad, it was a free vote of the electorate.
Mr. Jessop, quite. If Labour had kept their manifesto commitment to a treaty referendum, Lisbon would've been rejected, but it would have acted as a pressure valve for people whose views have been ignored for decades.
Mr. Sandpit, agreed, Hannan's also a clever chap. And I hear he's looking for a new job anyway.
Once Osborne said he wanted us to be China's best friend in the West, what was the point of us staying in the EU? The most obvious reason to stay - that we'd be better off dealing with the rising Chinese juggernaut over the next generation as part of the EU - had been negated.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Leave campaigned on a clear prospectus. It would be a fraud on the voters not to implement it. I shall watch with interest as Leave attempts to do so.
And 48% of people just voted against that. You seem determined to wallow in self pity and the false belief that London should lead. I'm a Londoner, just like you, and we can make the UK a globally competitive country and that will strengthen the city. If you don't want to play any part of that out of bitterness then that is your choice, but I hope after the shock wears off you will see how we can Brexit work for London.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
Yes, but the good thing is that it's flushed those divisions into the open, such that they cannot now ever be ignored again. I think realising that reality is a healthy start.
I don't think the UK will become a pariah state but it really does have its work cut out, now, to explain this result to friends and allies.
It does. Boris will have a lot of work to do overseas. We are in danger of being defined by Nigel Farage, who gets huge media coverage in Europe and elsewhere. And he'll also need to build bridges with the City and business. He has one hell of a job on his hands.
If Cam had returned from negotiations said "this is what we got - I'm staying neutral - decide yourselves" - he'd still be PM.
No he wouldn't. It was his job to provide leadership.
If he'd supported Leave, he'd still be PM.
And he obviously decided he did not think Leave was the right course. Sadly for him, the majority disagreed with him.
You cannot criticise someone for campaigning for what they felt was right.
Agreed. But he was incapable of leading the people to agree with him.
And there is a limit to which one can argue that the people don't know what's good for them and have got it coming to them. That is a kind of half-truth. Cameron failed either to lead or to represent.
The background of several decades during which the political class has ignored the problems of immigration - problems which have grown a lot in the last 10 years as the economy has gone down the tubes - cannot be blamed on Cameron, but his doing nothing about while he was in office can.
Britain will now be a "case" in the way that Iceland and Greece are "cases". I think this would have happened even if the country had stayed in the EU, given how centred on the City of London its economy is.
If Cameron had been a man of his word and backed Leave he would now be the new Churchill.
Instead he's the new Chamberlain.
He was a man of his word. He said there would be referendum and there was one. What you want him to be is a man who goes against his beliefs
Look at his speeches he was giving on the EU up to last year.
He was claiming to be a EUsceptic.
I'm Eurosceptic (*) and I voted remain. Why? Because in my view the leave campaigns had not adequately made the case for change, and made it in a bad way. It was a hard decision, but I'm still contentish with the contrary decision made by my fellow citizens.
Britain can be great in or out of the EU. It can also be a failure in or out.
It's perfectly possible to be Eurosceptic and want to change Europe from the inside. I think you're confusing Euroscpeticism and Europhobia.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Leave campaigned on a clear prospectus. It would be a fraud on the voters not to implement it. I shall watch with interest as Leave attempts to do so.
And 48% of people just voted against that. You seem determined to wallow in self pity and the false belief that London should lead. I'm a Londoner, just like you, and we can make the UK a globally competitive country and that will strengthen the city. If you don't want to play any part of that out of bitterness then that is your choice, but I hope after the shock wears off you will see how we can Brexit work for London.
Work for London or work for the people who voted for it? It would seem from this result that the two are difficult to reconcile.
Angela Leadsom is so lightweight she could float on water. Not walk, mind! And Priti Patel :-D
The dearth of Tory talent will be laid bare over the coming weeks.
Just imagine if Labour did come to its senses.
And replace Corbyn with whom ?
Burnham ? Cooper ? Kendall ? EdM ?
John Mann would be better.
I would back Dan Jarvis to win an overall majority against any post-Cameron Tory leader. And that's despite him being completely unknown. Corbyn is the only thing between the Tories and electoral defeat. It'll be very interesting to see how the unions react to the referendum outcome.
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
Labour are in a dire state and will be fighting for its life. Is Corbyn the answer?
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
There is no way you can make that positive to Labour's WWC voters. Risible.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
The politicians on all sides need to realise that inner London, like Twitter, isn't Britain.
What stops EU people coming to Britain now and staying here ?
Nothing. I did say that it was possible that there would be a rush to get in before we left. But that would kind of undermine your argument of Britain going to hell in a handcart, wouldn't it?
Mr. D, quite. The idea it's acceptable for Northern Ireland, Scotland and London to 'steamroller' England (ex-London) and Wales but that the reverse is abhorrent displays contempt for democracy. It's that kind of attitude which has, I feel, helped sew bitterness and made it harder for Remain to do well.
MD
I'm shocked that you think bitterness is joined by a seamstress and not broadcast on the land by an agricultural worker.
Ironically I'm posting whilst having my car washed at my local 5 quid a pop outfit manned by east European immigrants. Wonder how they feel this morning?
Ironically I'm posting whilst having my car washed at my local 5 quid a pop outfit manned by east European immigrants. Wonder how they feel this morning?
What stops EU people coming to Britain now and staying here ?
Nothing. I did say that it was possible that there would be a rush to get in before we left. But that would kind of undermine your argument of Britain going to hell in a handcart, wouldn't it?
I did not say Britain would go to hell. I wanted an open and inviting country. I still do.
If Cam had returned from negotiations said "this is what we got - I'm staying neutral - decide yourselves" - he'd still be PM.
No he wouldn't. It was his job to provide leadership.
If he'd supported Leave, he'd still be PM.
And he obviously decided he did not think Leave was the right course. Sadly for him, the majority disagreed with him.
You cannot criticise someone for campaigning for what they felt was right.
Agreed. But he was incapable of leading the people to agree with him.
And there is a limit to which one can argue that the people don't know what's good for them and have got it coming to them. That is a kind of half-truth. Cameron failed either to lead or to represent.
The background of several decades during which the political class has ignored the problems of immigration - problems which have grown a lot in the last 10 years as the economy has gone down the tubes - cannot be blamed on Cameron, but his doing nothing about while he was in office can.
Britain will now be a "case" in the way that Iceland and Greece are "cases". I think this would have happened even if the country had stayed in the EU, given how centred on the City of London its economy is.
Yes, Cameron failed. But he failed in doing what he thought was right. I find it hard to criticise him for that.
Your comments on immigration show why the EFTA / EEA approach is a dead-end. This vote comes down to immigration, and that must be dealt with. Hopefully it an be dealt with in a fair manner that will not do the country economic or social harm.
Ironically I'm posting whilst having my car washed at my local 5 quid a pop outfit manned by east European immigrants. Wonder how they feel this morning?
Angela Leadsom is so lightweight she could float on water. Not walk, mind! And Priti Patel :-D
The dearth of Tory talent will be laid bare over the coming weeks.
Just imagine if Labour did come to its senses.
And replace Corbyn with whom ?
Burnham ? Cooper ? Kendall ? EdM ?
John Mann would be better.
I would back Dan Jarvis to win an overall majority against any post-Cameron Tory leader. And that's despite him being completely unknown. Corbyn is the only thing between the Tories and electoral defeat. It'll be very interesting to see how the unions react to the referendum outcome.
Labour have a great opportunity, if they want to take it, to find someone new, young and passionate to lead them into 2020. Dan Jarvis would be a good choice.
The Tories will be choosing an old hand like May or Hammond to lead the negotiations as PM, not a forty-something for them this time.
Angela Leadsom is so lightweight she could float on water. Not walk, mind! And Priti Patel :-D
The dearth of Tory talent will be laid bare over the coming weeks.
Just imagine if Labour did come to its senses.
And replace Corbyn with whom ?
Burnham ? Cooper ? Kendall ? EdM ?
John Mann would be better.
I would back Dan Jarvis to win an overall majority against any post-Cameron Tory leader. And that's despite him being completely unknown. Corbyn is the only thing between the Tories and electoral defeat. It'll be very interesting to see how the unions react to the referendum outcome.
I doubt Dan Jarvis could win a one ticket raffle. Have you ever heard him speak, or seen him interviewed? He's a bigger drip than Ed Miliband.
Also interesting to note that European markets are taking a much bigger beating than London. Madrid and Milan are down 10% each, Paris and Frankfurt 8% each while the FTSE100 is down just 4.5%.
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
Oh dear Nick, Cameron destructive and ineffective, what pills have you been taking.
Compare the country in 2010 to now. Has is record employment ineffective?
Following the biggest drop in sterling against the dollar on record, we now have the biggest drop in the FTSE 250 on record
But is this not because of the surprise factor? You can see that the market rallied as the traders (wrongly) thought Remain had it.
In dollar terms, the FTSE 250 has lost a fifth of its value.
The betting question is whether we have gone straight to a level of support, or whether next week the downward plunge will continue?
Hard to say but given all the time there has been to prepare would we expect a slow burn?
I've always felt the talk about short term armageddon was OTT and the bigger economic concern was what happens over the medium to long term. It's naive to think politics won't influence economic decisions by other governments and I think we have to be very careful about our relationship with China.
I would back Dan Jarvis to win an overall majority against any post-Cameron Tory leader. And that's despite him being completely unknown. Corbyn is the only thing between the Tories and electoral defeat. It'll be very interesting to see how the unions react to the referendum outcome.
I doubt Dan Jarvis could win a one ticket raffle. Have you ever heard him speak, or seen him interviewed? He's a bigger drip than Ed Miliband.
Mind you, at least they can put rail renationalisation in the manifesto.
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
Well he hasn't tried in any sensible way and he probably wouldn't know how.
It's actually simple: encourage stronger trade unions that actively recruit among immigrants. But the employers wouldn't like that, so no party leadership will go anywhere near the idea.
Most people aren't especially strongly xenophobic. England and Wales aren't Northern Ireland. West Indians, Asians, people from various parts of the world are accepted on most building sites, for example. But when Poles and Romanians come along and work for a third of British workers' wages, and British workers find it hard to get work as a result, of course there's resentment, and of course such resentment doesn't make people racists or xenophobes. The resentment is not xenophobic because it has nothing to do with the people having another culture or ethnicity. There's more ethnic mixing in the working class than there is in other classes. The middle class left doesn't understand any of this. They recognise the working class only as little darlings who must beg quietly and nicely for social benefits, or as a seething mass of barbaric criminality on whom the lid must be kept.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Shameful. The Great Wen should be stripped of her capital status.
And the fellow who murdered Jo Cox should have all charges against him dropped?
Come on - spit it out. It's what you think - but do you have the guts to say what you think?
That's uncalled for. Are you drunk?
I haven't had an alcoholic drink since 1997. And if only 1 LEAVER in 10 thinks that Cos's death was justifiable homicide, that's over one-and-a-half million very very angry people. Why is pointing that out uncalled-for?
Remainers need to quickly find common cause with Dan Hannan tory types, and push for a 'unity option' resembling EFTA with some form of emergency brake or option to reduce migration incentives.
Nothing to be gained by criticising the out campaign on immigration anymore. EFTA is still to play for.
Also interesting to note that European markets are taking a much bigger beating than London. Madrid and Milan are down 10% each, Paris and Frankfurt 8% each while the FTSE100 is down just 4.5%.
Isn't some of that already reflected in the currency devaluation?
Not the way to calm the markets though is it? Wait til 15 mins after they open. Then be a bit late. Then make a brief announcement that lays out relatively little detail, and increase the uncertainty by making clear that Mystery Person X will be PM and running the negotiations by October...
The 15 minutes was to "prove" that the Project Fear was indeed Project Reality.
Angela Leadsom is so lightweight she could float on water. Not walk, mind! And Priti Patel :-D
The dearth of Tory talent will be laid bare over the coming weeks.
Just imagine if Labour did come to its senses.
And replace Corbyn with whom ?
Burnham ? Cooper ? Kendall ? EdM ?
John Mann would be better.
I would back Dan Jarvis to win an overall majority against any post-Cameron Tory leader. And that's despite him being completely unknown. Corbyn is the only thing between the Tories and electoral defeat. It'll be very interesting to see how the unions react to the referendum outcome.
Labour have a great opportunity, if they want to take it, to find someone new, young and passionate to lead them into 2020. Dan Jarvis would be a good choice.
The Tories will be choosing an old hand like May or Hammond to lead the negotiations as PM, not a forty-something for them this time.
I don't understand this fetish for young leaders. Miliband was young. Clegg was young. Cameron was young.
Mr. D, that's possible. Polling on the day should be banned (ahem, except for the vote), and in the run-up it should be more tightly restricted. Polling should reflect what the UK thinks, not shape it by having them spewed out so often.
Mr. H, I do like to spin a yarn.
Mr. Jessop, I wish I'd felt the same way. The EU only moves in one direction, though, and that is not a good way.
I wonder if our departure, if we do leave, might make some there rethink the integration drive which underlies every major shift in the EU.
Didn't post about it at the time, but I wavered rather a lot in the last few days. The choice felt almost Alien Vs Predator.
Ironically I'm posting whilst having my car washed at my local 5 quid a pop outfit manned by east European immigrants. Wonder how they feel this morning?
You still don't get it , this is exactly why there was such a dramatic WWC turnout. Washing your car for £5 means they are being paid under minimum wage, which results in the the local WWC wages being compressed. Great for you , along with your cleaner/nanny/plumber. Disastrous for those competing in the same low skill space.
Remarkable comments by Sadiq Khan saying there is absolutely no need for a General Election with the new PM.
That's amazing for a Labour politician to say. He gave massive assurance about the power of London, its stability and that its the best city in the world. Good for him.
Gaby Hinsliff @gabyhinsliff Peter Mandelson is on the radio saying Corbyn can't cut it as leader, which should unite large parts of the labour party behind Corbyn.
Ironically I'm posting whilst having my car washed at my local 5 quid a pop outfit manned by east European immigrants. Wonder how they feel this morning?
Fill your tank today.
Did it yesterday. :-)
Heading up to the People's Republic of Sturgeonia shortly. Wonder what the mood will be like up there....?! :-o
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
It's not a positive to someone who repeatedly watches a eastern European take the job their applied for. Until the political classes understand that they wwc will treat politicians with contempt.
If the next PM moves quickly for an election UKIP will destroy Labour in England and Wales...
Bollocks ! Labour voters still voted for the EU. It is the Tories who could not.
Labour voters delivered the majority for Leave. Ignore that if you wish, but its there. In Rochdale. In Doncaster. In Hartlepool. In Stevenage. In Crawley. In Slough.
Also interesting to note that European markets are taking a much bigger beating than London. Madrid and Milan are down 10% each, Paris and Frankfurt 8% each while the FTSE100 is down just 4.5%.
Yep - and that will, of course, have a direct affect on us further down the line given that the EU is our single biggest export market.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Shameful. The Great Wen should be stripped of her capital status.
And the fellow who murdered Jo Cox should have all charges against him dropped?
Don't be ridiculous.
But I do believe the leave campaigns and leavers n vctory need to try to repair the damage caused by the campaign.
There are some worried immigrants out there.
It's too late. The most talented and mobile are already making plans to leave.
Indeed - that's the case in a couple of tech companies I know here in the Cambridge area. One couple are already planning to head back. However much I think they're wrong, I can't really blame them given the media's mood music.
And the fact that an American tech firm in Britain (in their case) needed to 'mport' talent from France is:
a) A sign of the strength of the sector in Britain. b) A sign of the failure of our education system.
It has nothing to do with the EU. If anything, the EU membership helped 'fix' the problem.
Mrs J is seriously worried about her job now. Fortunately we should have the funds to cope with some temporary problems. Others are not so lucky.
We have to make it clear that Britain is outwards-looking and open for business and investment.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
Well I hope people such as yourself make your voice heard so we can get a good compromise.
Leave campaigned on a clear prospectus. It would be a fraud on the voters not to implement it. I shall watch with interest as Leave attempts to do so.
Up to a point. But 52% can't just triumph over 48%.
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
I'm going to be politically homeless for the first time in my life - can't vote for Corbyn, can't now vote Tory once a Brexiter is installed and please don't anyone suggest Tim Farron!
Comments
https://twitter.com/DanHannanMEP/status/746243278476029952
Feasible? Perhaps not with Farage and perhaps not if Labour get some leaders who are connected to the electorate rather than to their metro-activists and far-lefters.
No, that was Brown. You do remember his skulking signing of the Lisbon treaty?
"he offered the electorate an option"
I can understand why a loser such as yourself might not like democracy. I'm just glad he gave us a choice.
If the next PM moves quickly for an election UKIP will destroy Labour in England and Wales...
I think the Leave tory MPs might coalesce around one candidate, and have a repeat of the Howard election, where the MPs effectively decide the contest, only offering one candidate to the membership.
Topped up at 11.3 at just after poll close.
Dangerous times but exciting times ahead for our great country.
Mr. Abroad, it was a free vote of the electorate.
Mr. Jessop, quite. If Labour had kept their manifesto commitment to a treaty referendum, Lisbon would've been rejected, but it would have acted as a pressure valve for people whose views have been ignored for decades.
Mr. Sandpit, agreed, Hannan's also a clever chap. And I hear he's looking for a new job anyway.
And there is a limit to which one can argue that the people don't know what's good for them and have got it coming to them. That is a kind of half-truth. Cameron failed either to lead or to represent.
The background of several decades during which the political class has ignored the problems of immigration - problems which have grown a lot in the last 10 years as the economy has gone down the tubes - cannot be blamed on Cameron, but his doing nothing about while he was in office can.
Britain will now be a "case" in the way that Iceland and Greece are "cases". I think this would have happened even if the country had stayed in the EU, given how centred on the City of London its economy is. True - he is an opportunist first and foremost and will be worse than Cameron.
Britain can be great in or out of the EU. It can also be a failure in or out.
It's perfectly possible to be Eurosceptic and want to change Europe from the inside. I think you're confusing Euroscpeticism and Europhobia.
(*) Not that some on here will believe me. Sigh.
Someone needs to ask Corbyn directly whether he voted Remain. Close source tells me he voted Leave (although obviously treat with caution).
I'm shocked that you think bitterness is joined by a seamstress and not broadcast on the land by an agricultural worker.
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/746251557142953986
Your comments on immigration show why the EFTA / EEA approach is a dead-end. This vote comes down to immigration, and that must be dealt with. Hopefully it an be dealt with in a fair manner that will not do the country economic or social harm.
Politics, bloody hell.
The Tories will be choosing an old hand like May or Hammond to lead the negotiations as PM, not a forty-something for them this time.
Compare the country in 2010 to now. Has is record employment ineffective?
I've always felt the talk about short term armageddon was OTT and the bigger economic concern was what happens over the medium to long term. It's naive to think politics won't influence economic decisions by other governments and I think we have to be very careful about our relationship with China.
It's actually simple: encourage stronger trade unions that actively recruit among immigrants. But the employers wouldn't like that, so no party leadership will go anywhere near the idea.
Most people aren't especially strongly xenophobic. England and Wales aren't Northern Ireland. West Indians, Asians, people from various parts of the world are accepted on most building sites, for example. But when Poles and Romanians come along and work for a third of British workers' wages, and British workers find it hard to get work as a result, of course there's resentment, and of course such resentment doesn't make people racists or xenophobes. The resentment is not xenophobic because it has nothing to do with the people having another culture or ethnicity. There's more ethnic mixing in the working class than there is in other classes. The middle class left doesn't understand any of this. They recognise the working class only as little darlings who must beg quietly and nicely for social benefits, or as a seething mass of barbaric criminality on whom the lid must be kept.
Your petticoat of true colours is showing. Off out now and I will leave you to roll around down in the gutter of your own misery.
Nothing to be gained by criticising the out campaign on immigration anymore. EFTA is still to play for.
Mr. H, I do like to spin a yarn.
Mr. Jessop, I wish I'd felt the same way. The EU only moves in one direction, though, and that is not a good way.
I wonder if our departure, if we do leave, might make some there rethink the integration drive which underlies every major shift in the EU.
Didn't post about it at the time, but I wavered rather a lot in the last few days. The choice felt almost Alien Vs Predator.
Washing your car for £5 means they are being paid under minimum wage, which results in the the local WWC wages being compressed.
Great for you , along with your cleaner/nanny/plumber.
Disastrous for those competing in the same low skill space.
That's amazing for a Labour politician to say. He gave massive assurance about the power of London, its stability and that its the best city in the world. Good for him.
http://moneyweek.com/prices-news-charts/gbpeur/
Peter Mandelson is on the radio saying Corbyn can't cut it as leader, which should unite large parts of the labour party behind Corbyn.
Heading up to the People's Republic of Sturgeonia shortly. Wonder what the mood will be like up there....?! :-o
And the fact that an American tech firm in Britain (in their case) needed to 'mport' talent from France is:
a) A sign of the strength of the sector in Britain.
b) A sign of the failure of our education system.
It has nothing to do with the EU. If anything, the EU membership helped 'fix' the problem.
Mrs J is seriously worried about her job now. Fortunately we should have the funds to cope with some temporary problems. Others are not so lucky.
We have to make it clear that Britain is outwards-looking and open for business and investment.
I'm going to be politically homeless for the first time in my life - can't vote for Corbyn, can't now vote Tory once a Brexiter is installed and please don't anyone suggest Tim Farron!