Cameron virtually in tears at the end of his speech. Totally destroyed and to be remembered as a complete failure...
A sad end.
Will he? He will get kudos for having the balls to call the referendum in the first place; then had the dignity to fall on his sword when he lost it. Also, there's successfully forming a coalition in 2010 and winning a majority in 2015, the first Tory one in 23 years.
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
What are your thoughts on a potential leader, John?
Hi Casino, Congrats on the outcome (to which I was resigned last week would happen by a 3-4% margin). But to answer your question, I honestly have no idea at the moment - I'm feeling quite detached and almost an on-looker in the party (not that I am doing a flounce)
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
What are your thoughts on a potential leader, John?
Hi Casino, Congrats on the outcome (to which I was resigned last week would happen by a 3-4% margin). But to answer your question, I honestly have no idea at the moment - I'm feeling quite detached and almost an on-looker in the party (not that I am doing a flounce)
Thanks John. Can we get that beer in the diary? VM me.
Cameron virtually in tears at the end of his speech. Totally destroyed and to be remembered as a complete failure...
A sad end.
Morning GIN, One can only say well deserved and brought it on himself. If he had stuck to his principles and did a lot less lying he would be a hero rather than a zero.
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
What are your thoughts on a potential leader, John?
Hi Casino, Congrats on the outcome (to which I was resigned last week would happen by a 3-4% margin). But to answer your question, I honestly have no idea at the moment - I'm feeling quite detached and almost an on-looker in the party (not that I am doing a flounce)
Boris is going to be so hated this time next year.
It is not just this or that politician, but representative democracy itself, that is f*cked. Both the Government and Opposition parties are made up of MPs who abhor their leader (Labour) or the leader their activists want (Tories).
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
That really would be Sophie's choice.
For most of us, no choice.
A bit like Brown then.
Yes, how did that work out?
I'm all for a 2016 election. The new government needs a new mandate.
It won't be in 2016, I think it will be in 2017 after the new PM has negotiated a new relationship, they will put it to a GE for approval (easier to win than a referendum, especially if not enough done on immigration for UKIP) - Article 50 to be invoked only after this.
Cameron virtually in tears at the end of his speech. Totally destroyed and to be remembered as a complete failure...
A sad end.
Will he? He will get kudos for having the balls to call the referendum in the first place; then had the dignity to fall on his sword when he lost it. Also, there's forming a coalition in 2010 and winning a majority in 2015.
He had little choice about calling the referendum, and what is there to praise him for in allowing the people to say that they thought his foreign policy was a load of crap?
And he had no choice whatsoever about resigning. It was patently obvious that he would resign today.
Nor did he have a choice about forming a coalition with the LibDems in 2010.
Basically he won an election; that's all - the one held last year. Then he fell from office because on what was generally agreed to be an extremely important issue for the country the people rejected his recommendations and thought that what he was saying was a load of shit.
Unfortunately the result of the referendum is bad for the country, but that's not the point. He has been an abject failure and a crap leader.
So much for Old Etonian "effortless ease". Utter incompetence and unsuitability for office, more like.
Oh - and he didn't have the guts to point the finger at the queen for her intervention in the referendum on Wednesday. And you say he's got "balls"?
That does raise an interesting point. The next PM will likely be decided based on who the Conservative Party think would be best at negotiating a good deal for the UK.
I do agree this is likely to favour May. It won't, I think, help Boris.
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
What are your thoughts on a potential leader, John?
Hi Casino, Congrats on the outcome (to which I was resigned last week would happen by a 3-4% margin). But to answer your question, I honestly have no idea at the moment - I'm feeling quite detached and almost an on-looker in the party (not that I am doing a flounce)
Thanks John. Can we get that beer in the diary? VM me.
If it's Gove vs Johnson, I will likely spoil my vote.
That really would be Sophie's choice.
For most of us, no choice.
A bit like Brown then.
Yes, how did that work out?
I'm all for a 2016 election. The new government needs a new mandate.
It won't be in 2016, I think it will be in 2017 after the new PM has negotiated a new relationship, they will put it to a GE for approval (easier to win than a referendum, especially if not enough done on immigration for UKIP) - Article 50 to be invoked only after this.
That makes a lot of sense. It will be interesting to see if there is some kind of prepackaged deal that is reached very quickly.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
That's a very balanced response Sean.
Now the deed is done, could you return to the Conservative fold?
"This then is the message which we send forth today to all states and nations, bound or free, to all the men in all the lands who care for freedom's cause. To our Allies and well-wishers in Europe, to our American friends and helpers drawing ever closer in their might across the ocean, this is the message-lift up your hearts, all will come right. Out of depths of sorrow and sacrifice will be born again the glory of mankind."
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
Yes, but the good thing is that it's flushed those divisions into the open, such that they cannot now ever be ignored again. I think realising that reality is a healthy start.
I don't think the UK will become a pariah state but it really does have its work cut out, now, to explain this result to friends and allies.
There are some dummies being spat and toys out of the pram on here this morning.
A democratic decision has been taken now move on. I have consistently said whichever way it goes we get behind it. I said ages ago if it's remain then whatever my own personal views we get on with it 100% and we even seek to join the euro. No complaints no winging because that is the democratic will of the people.
Remain lost because they forgot the democratic principle and just threatened and abused those they needed to vote for them.
Gove's patronage is now very important. As the intellectual weight of the leave campaign his willingness to back any particular candidate would see them into a good position.
Gove's patronage is now very important. As the intellectual weight of the leave campaign his willingness to back any particular candidate would see them into a good position.
He could well be kingmaker, and angle for CoE. Not sure he would want Boris though
There are some dummies being spat and toys out of the pram on here this morning.
A democratic decision has been taken now move on. I have consistently said whichever way it goes we get behind it. I said ages ago if it's remain then whatever my own personal views we get on with it 100% and we even seek to join the euro. No complaints no winging because that is the democratic will of the people.
Remain lost because they forgot the democratic principle and just threatened and abused those they needed to vote for them.
I'm getting behind it.
But leavers should remember the 16 million people who did not agree with them. In the same way they were demanding that they would be remembered when it looked as though they were losing.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
That's a very balanced response Sean.
Now the deed is done, could you return to the Conservative fold?
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
There are some dummies being spat and toys out of the pram on here this morning.
A democratic decision has been taken now move on. I have consistently said whichever way it goes we get behind it. I said ages ago if it's remain then whatever my own personal views we get on with it 100% and we even seek to join the euro. No complaints no winging because that is the democratic will of the people.
Remain lost because they forgot the democratic principle and just threatened and abused those they needed to vote for them.
I'm getting behind it.
But leavers should remember the 16 million people who did not agree with them. In the same way they were demanding that they would be remembered when it looked as though they were losing.
That's absolutely right and fair. I think we need a solution that will suit as many people as possible, hopefully we can find one that works. I think it will look a lot like EFTA membership with an emergency brake for 4 years.
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
If it had been remain, surely it'd just be steamrollering the rest of England?
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
That's a very balanced response Sean.
Now the deed is done, could you return to the Conservative fold?
Well, UKIP's purpose is done.
Good point. What does UKIP do now? Thats a lot of votes for the tories, or labour to hoover up.
Or a new party, or do UKIP morph into something else?
Has anyone got combined votes for Inner and Outer London ?
The Telegraph gives the region of London as Remain 59.9%, Leave 40.1%
Outer London would have been quite close as Leave won five boroughs and the big Remain wins were in Inner London.
Ardent Leavers should look at the results in inner London and pause. Leave wasn't just defeated there, it was annihilated. This is not just a metropolitan bubble, this is the metropolis.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
Which is why there will be a compromise.
The door is barred to that now. 76 million Turks are joining the EU, don't you know?
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
That's a very balanced response Sean.
Now the deed is done, could you return to the Conservative fold?
Well, UKIP's purpose is done.
Good point. What does UKIP do now? Thats a lot of votes for the tories, or labour to hoover up.
Or a new party, or do UKIP morph into something else?
They probably become a working class, socially conservative, protectionist party. It's the biggest gap in the market created by Labour not knowing their own constituencies.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
That's a very balanced response Sean.
Now the deed is done, could you return to the Conservative fold?
Well, UKIP's purpose is done.
I don't think they're going to vanish.
But whatever purpose their rump serves, I can't imagine it being a pretty one.
I suspect that, for you, UKIP has done what you hoped it would and the journey is over, bar the matter of ensuring the will of the electorate (by a slim margin) is actually enacted.
Mr. D, quite. The idea it's acceptable for Northern Ireland, Scotland and London to 'steamroller' England (ex-London) and Wales but that the reverse is abhorrent displays contempt for democracy. It's that kind of attitude which has, I feel, helped sew bitterness and made it harder for Remain to do well.
I'm not sure how I feel overall. Pleased with the result, obviously, but worried about the degree of polarisation it reveals in our society. Some of these results by local authority were astonishingly one sided. That was obvious from the Luton count. Whole wards were breaking 3 or 4 to 1, in favour of one side or the other. And, the murder of Jo Cox casts a shadow over the result.
Which type of wards were voting which way ?
The ballot boxes were marked by codes which I didn't have, rather than by ward names. But, they were clearly very polarised.
Comments
How does the saying go? What do they know of England, who only London know?
Anyway, time for reflection and analysis.
I'd probably go for May. Not really a eurosceptic but I trust her to negotiate hard.
lol
He decided to try and polish a steaming brown one.
Amusingly, it would be fought on old boundaries.
Ukip now unnecessary?
Then he had no choice but to lead...
And he had no choice whatsoever about resigning. It was patently obvious that he would resign today.
Nor did he have a choice about forming a coalition with the LibDems in 2010.
Basically he won an election; that's all - the one held last year. Then he fell from office because on what was generally agreed to be an extremely important issue for the country the people rejected his recommendations and thought that what he was saying was a load of shit.
Unfortunately the result of the referendum is bad for the country, but that's not the point. He has been an abject failure and a crap leader.
So much for Old Etonian "effortless ease". Utter incompetence and unsuitability for office, more like.
Oh - and he didn't have the guts to point the finger at the queen for her intervention in the referendum on Wednesday. And you say he's got "balls"?
I do agree this is likely to favour May. It won't, I think, help Boris.
Edited extra bit: Mr. F, I feel similarly.
I think I'd better head off before I have a meltdown and start calling you Leavers the modern day Guy Burgesses and worse.
Kay Burley would say there's sadness in my eyes.
Flemish PM @GeertBourgeois warns not to impose tariffs on UK: "We have enormous exports to Britain..We need a soft #Brexit incl. free trade"
Now the deed is done, could you return to the Conservative fold?
He said he'd give you a referendum. He did.
He said he would respect the result. He has.
Some leavers said nether of those things would happen. It says more about them than him.
I don't think the UK will become a pariah state but it really does have its work cut out, now, to explain this result to friends and allies.
The dearth of Tory talent will be laid bare over the coming weeks.
Just imagine if Labour did come to its senses.
A democratic decision has been taken now move on. I have consistently said whichever way it goes we get behind it. I said ages ago if it's remain then whatever my own personal views we get on with it 100% and we even seek to join the euro. No complaints no winging because that is the democratic will of the people.
Remain lost because they forgot the democratic principle and just threatened and abused those they needed to vote for them.
Or is that a massive oversimplification?
If he'd supported Leave, he'd still be PM. That was his job, too. He wasn't up to it.
A lot of Labour MPs were heavily out of touch.
John Mann has been proved right.
But leavers should remember the 16 million people who did not agree with them. In the same way they were demanding that they would be remembered when it looked as though they were losing.
The political debate in inner London is radically different from that elsewhere and some hard thinking needs to be done by those now about to take charge as to how they are going to address that democratic divide, especially as London is making the money that the rest of the country is spending.
Steamrollering inner London into submission won't work in anything other than the very short term.
You cannot criticise someone for campaigning for what they felt was right. Someone like Boris, however, can and will be criticised.
Burnham ? Cooper ? Kendall ? EdM ?
John Mann would be better.
Or a new party, or do UKIP morph into something else?
Still the Normans to come after that, of course. But England went on.
IMO Cameron is the most destructive, ineffective PM we've had since Chamberlain - for the sake of tactical advantage and party management, he offered the electorate an option that he believes (rightly in my view) would do both Britain and the wider world lasting serious damage.Let's hope he was wrong about that judgment.
Corbyn was simply inconveniently honest - yes, membership meant unlimited immigration, and we should try to make that positive.
But whatever purpose their rump serves, I can't imagine it being a pretty one.
I suspect that, for you, UKIP has done what you hoped it would and the journey is over, bar the matter of ensuring the will of the electorate (by a slim margin) is actually enacted.
Come on - spit it out. It's what you think - but do you have the guts to say what you think?
He was claiming to be a EUsceptic.
But I do believe the leave campaigns and leavers n vctory need to try to repair the damage caused by the campaign.
There are some worried immigrants out there.