BBC now saying it's democracy. I'm sorry but that is bollocks.
It really is. Ignore the people at your peril. There was anelection and now we have a result.
Yep, the people have spoken. It is now encumbent on Leave to deliver on the promises they've made.
;D ;D
They will try to make everyone happy by telling them annual net inward immigration is down to 175,000 from the Commonwealth! "But I still see them every day."
'No, we haven't. We've voted to leave. There's a big difference.'
Junker only yesterday said it was the best deal possible and there would be no further negotiations.
Was he telling porkies ?
Juncker isn't the EU. There are plenty of rumblings about him and his management style. We have to hope that the pragmatists step up on all sides.
They cannot offer us anything without making a rod for their own backs. Our government would collapse if it looked like not leaving to consider a new offer.
Cameron needs to resign and be very clear - "Your mess, you clear it up."
No, he's the PM, his duty is to implement the result of his referendum.
Well if he hadn't tried so many underhand methods to win it, maybe. The British don't like a 'cad'.
I think he should stay on - he's probably already been in contact with other EU leaders as to the best course, and we now need some stability over the next few days, and he still has the backing of a majority of conservative MPs.
No, we haven't. We've voted to leave. There's a big difference.
Semantics. Under what circumstances will we not leave? No government would be able to not proceed with the formalities, no offer from brussells will be forthcoming which would convince people to vote again.
If the UK is in meltdown, so will the EU be. I am not convinced that the Scottish will want to cut loose from the UK and throw their lot in with the EU now.
The EU will fare better than UK in the short to medium term hence why the breakup of the UK is a very serious probability.
If I'd thought we could secure the stability of the UK by voting Remain, I would have. The SNP's dominance makes clear we are were on shaky ground as it was.
Cameron needs to resign and be very clear - "Your mess, you clear it up."
What is your view of the queen's last-minute intervention to help Leave?
She was reported in the Sun to be fond of asking people "Tell me three good reasons for staying in the EU". That was on Wednesday.
(The main reason I left my money on Leave rather than bailing out was because the Sun and the monarch both backed Leave.)
That story about the monarch can't have been printed without the OK from the Palace. Otherwise they'd have complained.
Maybe Cameron should declare that he's going to hand in his resignation to the queen and that since she wanted this mess, she can advise her f*cking self on who to appoint as his f*cking successor.
I always said, when you are accusing people of people of being racist, xenophobic and possibly even being somehow responsible for someone's murder, they might, just might be reluctant to talk to pollsters on the Dog.
Went to bed at 1.30 certain leave would win and now woken up and they have. It is chaos out there but I am not seeking blame. The EU has failed and the result is dramatic. As a remainer I have to admit to a strange feeling of freedom but we now need a serious coming together of the conservative. Most seem to feel David Cameron must continue for stability and of course he knows everyone in the EU. Well done leave but get rid of Farage
'No, we haven't. We've voted to leave. There's a big difference.'
Junker only yesterday said it was the best deal possible and there would be no further negotiations.
Was he telling porkies ?
Juncker isn't the EU. There are plenty of rumblings about him and his management style. We have to hope that the pragmatists step up on all sides.
They cannot offer us anything without making a rod for their own backs. Our government would collapse if it looked like not leaving to consider a new offer.
There will be no offer.
Yes. Please listen to this individual and SeanT, everyone. It is called democracy. Vote out, get out. You own it.
You can't have Cameron staying to oversee the exit, there would be no confidence in him, as he would disagree with his own actions. I'm sure he knows that and will resign straight away but, to calm nerves, would stay on until a leadership vote.
'No, we haven't. We've voted to leave. There's a big difference.'
Junker only yesterday said it was the best deal possible and there would be no further negotiations.
Was he telling porkies ?
Juncker isn't the EU. There are plenty of rumblings about him and his management style. We have to hope that the pragmatists step up on all sides.
They cannot offer us anything without making a rod for their own backs. Our government would collapse if it looked like not leaving to consider a new offer.
There will be no offer.
I meant in terms of trade, residency rights and so on. The French will want to have a ruck, I imagine the Germans won't. There's been a lot of noises off about punishing the Brits pour encourager les autres. That might be a gratifying impulse, but it's really, really not in the EU's interests to do that. It would be counterproductive in my view.
Cameron needs to resign and be very clear - "Your mess, you clear it up."
What is your view of the queen's last-minute intervention to help Leave?
She was reported in the Sun to be fond of asking people "Tell me three good reasons for staying in the EU". That was on Wednesday.
(The main reason I left my money on Leave rather than bailing out was because the Sun and the monarch both backed Leave.)
That can't have been printed without the OK from the Palace. Otherwise they'd have complained.
Maybe Cameron should declare that he's going to hand in his resignation to the queen and that since she wanted this mess, she can advise her f*cking self on who to appoint as his f*cking successor.
Cameron needs to resign and be very clear - "Your mess, you clear it up."
No, he's the PM, his duty is to implement the result of his referendum.
Well if he hadn't tried so many underhand methods to win it, maybe. The British don't like a 'cad'.
I think he should stay on - he's probably already been in contact with other EU leaders as to the best course, and we now need some stability over the next few days, and he still has the backing of a majority of conservative MPs.
'No, we haven't. We've voted to leave. There's a big difference.'
Junker only yesterday said it was the best deal possible and there would be no further negotiations.
Was he telling porkies ?
Of course. And we may just find that the experts had some idea of what they were talking about. It could just be the EU may not look so horrific a few months down the line.
Objectively the EU is a better option for the UK than the other two likely options: EEA or a Korean style FTA. But as people were asked, do you want be in the EU, albeit out of context, and said No it's hard to see a way back. We'll just have to sort something out from the other two options, but they're definitely worse than what we have
After tonight, even if Remain somehow manages to scrape a narrow won, the EU needs to display some humility
Blaming the size of the Leave vote on the dark forces of the British press, or supposed British racism will just make the EU seem like sore losers, as will claiming the Leave vote was really an anti-Tory vote.
Instead, the EU needs to look in the mirror, recognise that it is not perfect, and admit the UK had legitimate grievances against it.
Hopefully, the shock of this result will enable the EU's leaders to push through major reforms, but are they up to that challenge?
03:59 Declan Kearney, a Northern Ireland Assembly member for Sinn Féin, says his party will push for a poll on whether Northern Ireland should stay in the UK or unite with the Republic of Ireland if the UK votes to leave the EU. He says it will be "completely undemocratic" if the majority of people in Northern Ireland vote Remain but are "drawn out of the EU as a result of being carried on the coat-tails" of voters in England. "Sinn Féin will continue to press... for a border poll under the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement, because this (EU Referendum) will demonstrate palpably a dramatic change in the political landscape of the north," he says.
Declan Kearney BBC h ttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
Ooops.
Would they have any chance of winning that? I know the demographic have been moving in their direction but aren't they still a fair way off?
As soon as the Ireland/Northern Ireland border becomes a UK/EU border, then the question of hw to resolve it becomes rather pressing. And as previous discussions n this board have shown, the UK does not know how to resolve it
I always said, when you are accusing people of people of being racist, xenophobic and possibly even being somehow responsible for someone's murder, they might, just might be reluctant to talk to pollsters on the Dog.
Me too. The scum who pulled that stunt have no future in British politics...
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful?
Both of these are unlikely. For Scotland none of the fundamentals have changed and in NI the unionists all voted to Leave.
Well Brexit changes everything economically - all bets are now very much ON the table. Nicola will get her second indy ref and Scotland will 100% vote for independence this time. Why stay attached to a country that is now facing huge economic headwinds. You might as well go it alone. In a way, this is the perfect result for the SNP.
Well duh - he was probably gone anyway, as the price for party unity in the event of Remain winning.
I presume Cameron will appoint a new Leaver Chancellor and Foreign Secretary but leave May in place, then announce he is stepping down as Leader of the party and will tender his resignation to the queen once the party selects a successor.
Absolutely inconceivable that either of them could go at a time of such potential market instabilitiy - they are probably needed more in their roles over the next days and weeks than at any time since they came to office.
No, differential turnout. WWC areas went big on Leave. Those who dont normally vote (completely ignored by polls) went big on Leave.
They don't get out of bed for Ed Miliband.
But leaving the EU is a whole different matter...
You called it, thanks for that, it made sense and made me about £2000.
Heh I should have more confidence in my own tips
It made a lot of sense. It was quite clear that there was a good chance of differential turnout deciding the outcome and that WWC would be huge turnouts while, in my experience, Scotland would not turn out at all.
As soon as I saw how weak the turnout was in my area, it was clear Leave would win but I wouldn't have gone for it (especially my peak time cycle-by) if I hadn't read your posts.
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful?
Both of these are unlikely. For Scotland none of the fundamentals have changed and in NI the unionists all voted to Leave.
Well Brexit changes everything economically - all bets are now very much ON the table. Nicola will get her second indy ref and Scotland will 100% vote for independence this time. Why stay attached to a country that is now facing huge economic headwinds. You might as well go it alone. In a way, this is the perfect result for the SNP.
If the English can vote for economic self harm, why not the Scots?
Cameron will resign. I hope he tells the queen that since she intervened in the referendum she'd better decide for herself who to appoint as his successor and whether to call a general election. But he's more likely to kowtow and to stay on as caretaker. Then the Tory party has a stabbing festival leadership contest, and the winner - obviously someone who supported Leave - becomes PM, and the Tories all rally round for the good of the nasty party and in solidarity against oiks, Polaks, Krauts, Frogs, dagos and the Arabs - but especially those dirty smelly oiks, those oiks who just helped them out.
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful?
Both of these are unlikely. For Scotland none of the fundamentals have changed and in NI the unionists all voted to Leave.
Well Brexit changes everything economically - all bets are now very much ON the table. Nicola will get her second indy ref and Scotland will 100% vote for independence this time. Why stay attached to a country that is now facing huge economic headwinds. You might as well go it alone. In a way, this is the perfect result for the SNP.
Bring on a second Indy ref for Scotland.
The fall in oil revenue makes them bankrupt. Who will vote for bankruptcy?
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful?
Both of these are unlikely. For Scotland none of the fundamentals have changed and in NI the unionists all voted to Leave.
Well Brexit changes everything economically - all bets are now very much ON the table. Nicola will get her second indy ref and Scotland will 100% vote for independence this time. Why stay attached to a country that is now facing huge economic headwinds. You might as well go it alone. In a way, this is the perfect result for the SNP.
If the English can vote for economic self harm, why not the Scots?
Well, the Scots will be voting to become an EU minnow, it's hardly independence. However, if that's what they want, then they should be allowed to do so.
Absolutely inconceivable that either of them could go at a time of such potential market instabilitiy - they are probably needed more in their roles over the next days and weeks than at any time since they came to office.
How can the markets possibly have confidence in these two after all the warnings of hell they've been giving out.
Hammond for Chancellor and Mervyn back at BoE for a few months ASAP...
Cameron, in most ways, has not been a bad PM. Not great, but not bad, and he's made great strides for the Tory party. But he was simply not up to the task of resolving the EU issue for the public. Could they have been swayed to Remain? Presumably, it is pretty close. But he was not up to that.
An EU referendum was called for years and years ago, before Greece and all the rest of the recent troubles. Cameron didn't cause the mess, but it was too big by the time he got to it and trying to avoid it just made it worse.
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful?
Both of these are unlikely. For Scotland none of the fundamentals have changed and in NI the unionists all voted to Leave.
Well Brexit changes everything economically - all bets are now very much ON the table. Nicola will get her second indy ref and Scotland will 100% vote for independence this time. Why stay attached to a country that is now facing huge economic headwinds. You might as well go it alone. In a way, this is the perfect result for the SNP.
Bring on a second Indy ref for Scotland.
The fall in oil revenue makes them bankrupt. Who will vote for bankruptcy?
This is the kind of sneering that apparently made decent people vote LEAVE. It's on.
'No, we haven't. We've voted to leave. There's a big difference.'
Junker only yesterday said it was the best deal possible and there would be no further negotiations.
Was he telling porkies ?
Of course. And we may just find that the experts had some idea of what they were talking about. It could just be the EU may not look so horrific a few months down the line.
Objectively the EU is a better option for the UK than the other two likely options: EEA or a Korean style FTA. But as people were asked, do you want be in the EU, albeit out of context, and said No it's hard to see a way back. We'll just have to sort something out from the other two options, but they're definitely worse than what we have
03:59 Declan Kearney, a Northern Ireland Assembly member for Sinn Féin, says his party will push for a poll on whether Northern Ireland should stay in the UK or unite with the Republic of Ireland if the UK votes to leave the EU. He says it will be "completely undemocratic" if the majority of people in Northern Ireland vote Remain but are "drawn out of the EU as a result of being carried on the coat-tails" of voters in England. "Sinn Féin will continue to press... for a border poll under the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement, because this (EU Referendum) will demonstrate palpably a dramatic change in the political landscape of the north," he says.
Declan Kearney BBC h ttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
Ooops.
Would they have any chance of winning that? I know the demographic have been moving in their direction but aren't they still a fair way off?
As soon as the Ireland/Northern Ireland border becomes a UK/EU border, then the question of hw to resolve it becomes rather pressing. And as previous discussions n this board have shown, the UK does not know how to resolve it
Both the Republic and the UK are outside Schengen, and have their own Common Travel Area.
Note that Schengen INCLUDES non-EU members like Iceland and Switzerland.
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful?
Both of these are unlikely. For Scotland none of the fundamentals have changed and in NI the unionists all voted to Leave.
Well Brexit changes everything economically - all bets are now very much ON the table. Nicola will get her second indy ref and Scotland will 100% vote for independence this time. Why stay attached to a country that is now facing huge economic headwinds. You might as well go it alone. In a way, this is the perfect result for the SNP.
She won't, because she'll lose. Once it's all shaken out and the anger from the remain side is gone, Scotland is still an oil economy with very high structural public spending in a low oil price environment. If they vote to leave the UK they vote to leave Barnett and the billions that it comes with. Scotland's economy is already facing headwinds, their being in the UK has made most of them go away, as a rich nation they would be paying into the EU rather than receiving subsidies.
I was. I wrote a 'throwing in the towel' note on Tuesday. Couldn't see any chance of Brexit. Thought I composed it quite well. All wasted effort! Still thought Remain would claw it back as late as 2am.
...For Scotland none of the fundamentals have changed...
If the UK government cannot deliver stable governance nor a stable currency then Scotland may consider its best interests lie elsewhere. GBP is tanking as we speak, which gives Scotland impetus to leave the UK.
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful?
Both of these are unlikely. For Scotland none of the fundamentals have changed and in NI the unionists all voted to Leave.
Well Brexit changes everything economically - all bets are now very much ON the table. Nicola will get her second indy ref and Scotland will 100% vote for independence this time. Why stay attached to a country that is now facing huge economic headwinds. You might as well go it alone. In a way, this is the perfect result for the SNP.
If the English can vote for economic self harm, why not the Scots?
Well, the Scots will be voting to become an EU minnow, it's hardly independence. However, if that's what they want, then they should be allowed to do so.
03:59 Declan Kearney, a Northern Ireland Assembly member for Sinn Féin, says his party will push for a poll on whether Northern Ireland should stay in the UK or unite with the Republic of Ireland if the UK votes to leave the EU. He says it will be "completely undemocratic" if the majority of people in Northern Ireland vote Remain but are "drawn out of the EU as a result of being carried on the coat-tails" of voters in England. "Sinn Féin will continue to press... for a border poll under the provisions of the Good Friday Agreement, because this (EU Referendum) will demonstrate palpably a dramatic change in the political landscape of the north," he says.
Declan Kearney BBC h ttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
Ooops.
Would they have any chance of winning that? I know the demographic have been moving in their direction but aren't they still a fair way off?
As soon as the Ireland/Northern Ireland border becomes a UK/EU border, then the question of hw to resolve it becomes rather pressing. And as previous discussions n this board have shown, the UK does not know how to resolve it
Northern Ireland only voted narrowly to Remain. They aren't going to join the Republic.
Comments
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful?
They will try to make everyone happy by telling them annual net inward immigration is down to 175,000 from the Commonwealth! "But I still see them every day."
There will be no offer.
"I for one welcome our British overlords."
I think he should stay on - he's probably already been in contact with other EU leaders as to the best course, and we now need some stability over the next few days, and he still has the backing of a majority of conservative MPs.
UK has a masive trade deficit, including with the EU. The fall in the £ will help increase exports in the long term.
The UK will outlive it.
She was reported in the Sun to be fond of asking people "Tell me three good reasons for staying in the EU". That was on Wednesday.
(The main reason I left my money on Leave rather than bailing out was because the Sun and the monarch both backed Leave.)
That story about the monarch can't have been printed without the OK from the Palace. Otherwise they'd have complained.
Maybe Cameron should declare that he's going to hand in his resignation to the queen and that since she wanted this mess, she can advise her f*cking self on who to appoint as his f*cking successor.
But leaving the EU is a whole different matter...
If the Tories winning a majority last year was a shock to the dears, this is off the scale!
'The UK cannot now survive.
Scotland will stay in the EU as an independent nation. Ireland presumably will be reunified.
Democracy. Ain't it wonderful? '
It's great , if Scotland & NI want to leave that's their choice.
Blaming the size of the Leave vote on the dark forces of the British press, or supposed British racism will just make the EU seem like sore losers, as will claiming the Leave vote was really an anti-Tory vote.
Instead, the EU needs to look in the mirror, recognise that it is not perfect, and admit the UK had legitimate grievances against it.
Hopefully, the shock of this result will enable the EU's leaders to push through major reforms, but are they up to that challenge?
I presume Cameron will appoint a new Leaver Chancellor and Foreign Secretary but leave May in place, then announce he is stepping down as Leader of the party and will tender his resignation to the queen once the party selects a successor.
Eddie Izzard does it again
We are the people of England; and we have not spoken yet. Smile at us, pay us, pass us. But do not quite forget.
'She was reported in the Sun to be fond of asking people "Tell me three good reasons for staying in the EU".
I think a lot of voters asked themselves the same question and couldn't find one good reason.
Remain: 58,040
Leave: 74,982
As soon as I saw how weak the turnout was in my area, it was clear Leave would win but I wouldn't have gone for it (especially my peak time cycle-by) if I hadn't read your posts.
The fall in oil revenue makes them bankrupt. Who will vote for bankruptcy?
Hammond for Chancellor and Mervyn back at BoE for a few months ASAP...
An EU referendum was called for years and years ago, before Greece and all the rest of the recent troubles. Cameron didn't cause the mess, but it was too big by the time he got to it and trying to avoid it just made it worse.
Note that Schengen INCLUDES non-EU members like Iceland and Switzerland.
No more Frog wine.