Scotland and Northern Ireland vote Remain, England and Wales vote Leave. Is this going to cause problems?
My entire life I have believed the solution to NI was to be incorporated into Scotland. A Federal Republic of Scotland, NI and Ireland would be a reasonably strong state. Of course NI would object.
If we do leave, are all these talking heads who keep yapping about the amazing benefits of being in the EU going to campaign, in the next few GEs, to rejoin? Presumably with the full Schengen/currency union, since we won't rejoin with opt-outs.
Or is the dream dead for them?
(The nationalist parties may still think it is a sellable line. But what about about the Labour and LibDem and Tory remainers?)
No. If we can't win on the current terms we can't win on the much, much worse new member terms. This is it.
We have been preparing for the GDPR regulations at work, looks like we stick with Data Protection Act 1998 after all, just one of many consequences of Brexit to come
Birmingham going Leave ? Then it is OVER !!! 2 years of recession coming.
I expect a year long recession. This will be painful. But in the longer - much better.
Disagree - we could be on a downward spiral for years to come. We've made a decision to make ourselves much poorer. The shit hasn't even been ejected yet let alone hitting the proverbial fan. WE ARE F*CKED.
Birmingham going Leave ? Then it is OVER !!! 2 years of recession coming.
Yes, would be over then, think will call it a night. Well, we now join Norway and Switzerland outside the EU and neither are doing too badly even if we face some short-term pain. Goodnight
Free movement of people when Immigration won it for Leave ?
Birmingham going Leave ? Then it is OVER !!! 2 years of recession coming.
I expect a year long recession. This will be painful. But in the longer - much better.
Disagree - we could be on a downward spiral for years to come. We've made a decision to make ourselves much poorer. The shit hasn't even been ejected yet let alone hitting the proverbial fan. WE ARE F*CKED.
Go and read the IFS report. Or the IMF report. Basically, get some fucking data into your brain instead of running around like a headless chicken.
Birmingham going Leave ? Then it is OVER !!! 2 years of recession coming.
Yes, would be over then, think will call it a night. Well, we now join Norway and Switzerland outside the EU and neither are doing too badly even if we face some short-term pain. Goodnight
Free movement of people when Immigration won it for Leave ?
Switzerland don't have free movement.. We need to find a way to ensure we don't - for that is clearly what people want
Actually not. He read the Labour voters better than the shadow cabinet.
What if Labour moves a motion of no confidence ?
Short term - Labour would be wise to step back and watch Tories tear themselves apart.
In longer term - time to go back to EU with a proposal that you can be a member with some kind of quota on migration. I think free movement is over. May take a while for rest of EU to catch up.
Birmingham going Leave ? Then it is OVER !!! 2 years of recession coming.
Yes, would be over then, think will call it a night. Well, we now join Norway and Switzerland outside the EU and neither are doing too badly even if we face some short-term pain. Goodnight
Free movement of people when Immigration won it for Leave ?
Switzerland don't have free movement.. We need to find a way to ensure we don't - for that is clearly what people want
The IEA Brext prize suggested EEA without free movement.
does anybody think we will actually leave? Won't it just get bogged down in negotiations which will be put to people in an election or another vote and we will end up staying in having given the EU a good kicking which is what most voters probably wanted? Greece or Ireland style?
It's called democracy. Live with it. If you want to be European, don't be in a country that doesn't.
Birmingham going Leave ? Then it is OVER !!! 2 years of recession coming.
Yes, would be over then, think will call it a night. Well, we now join Norway and Switzerland outside the EU and neither are doing too badly even if we face some short-term pain. Goodnight
Free movement of people when Immigration won it for Leave ?
Switzerland don't have free movement.. We need to find a way to ensure we don't - for that is clearly what people want
Switzerland is inside Schengen. Go to CERN in Geneva, and just a few hundred yards away is the French border - no checkpoints!
Actually not. He read the Labour voters better than the shadow cabinet.
What if Labour moves a motion of no confidence ?
Short term - Labour would be wise to step back and watch Tories tear themselves apart.
In longer term - time to go back to EU with a proposal that you can be a member with some kind of quota on migration. I think free movement is over. May take a while for rest of EU to catch up.
Tories far less likely to tear themselves apart now.
I'm getting really angry with the presenters keeping on asking whether we should even have had the vote.
I'm getting angry because the BBC are referring to 'educated voters'. Leave it out, we've all had an opportunity to hear the arguments and make our minds up. Nothing to do with having a BA.
Corbyn hasn't been kept in by support from the traditional Labour voters who went Out. He's been kept in by support from London members and Three Quidders and Trafe Union leaders. They will blame Corbyn for this. He looks very vulnerable to me.
Labour has a fairly fundamental question whether to adopt a more migration-sceptic position or not, and that's unrelated to Corbyn, who has merely observed truthfully that it was a requirement in the EU. I noticed that McDonnell said this evening that Labour may need to rethink its position, and Watson has said it too. I suspect we need to grapple with that more than we need merely to switch leaders.
Well at least the NHS will soon be awash with extra government money and it will be all lovely like the right hand side of that leave referendum broadcast.
I was looking forward to 5% cheaper fuel, too, but since we import a lot of our fuel I am guessing it just got a lot more expensive....
Dumfries in. Every single local authority area in Scotland voted remain. This will put huge pressure on Nicola to act.
There will definitely be a referendum. If Farage continues to get nasty about decent people versus (non-EU!) immigrants in Bolton, it will go in the direction not previously seen in 2014.
Actually not. He read the Labour voters better than the shadow cabinet.
What if Labour moves a motion of no confidence ?
Short term - Labour would be wise to step back and watch Tories tear themselves apart.
In longer term - time to go back to EU with a proposal that you can be a member with some kind of quota on migration. I think free movement is over. May take a while for rest of EU to catch up.
I know I'm essentially repeating a post I made earlier this week, but I believe it bears repetition.
Free movement of labour is Europe's equivalent of the 2nd amendment. Both written in very different times for very different circumstances. Free movement didn't matter when it was the EU9 - as the stats show, migration was broadly neutral for the UK.
Accession of much poorer countries has changed that dynamic completely. None of us are going to agree on immigration into this country, but look at the impact on places like Poland and Lithuania.
The individuals are doing well (they're benefiting from UK, French and German level wages and welfare), but the source countries have been badly impacted. The Poles are looking to import Belorussians to look after the Polish elderly and put in Polish central heating and so on. A third of Lithuanians are now abroad.
It has to be tempered somehow, for the benefit of both source and target countries. Universal principles can't be cleaved to under all circumstances, it just doesn't make sense.
Comments
Wales out by 90k
So far
Or are we likely to see the opposite??
His £ predictions seem to be coming true....
Out 51.4%
If she survives that deselection vote....
I'm delighted for his brother Piers - went big on leave on his weatheraction website yesterday.....and fully vindicated.
In longer term - time to go back to EU with a proposal that you can be a member with some kind of quota on migration. I think free movement is over. May take a while for rest of EU to catch up.
http://www.iea.org.uk/publications/research/the-iea-brexit-prize-a-blueprint-for-britain-openness-not-isolation
Remain: 49,738
Leave: 57,927
Southamton goes leave
Marine Le Pen calls for "exit" referendums across the EU.
I'm going to call it a night - good night all.
Indyref 2 is coming for you
Indyref is coming
For you........
I was looking forward to 5% cheaper fuel, too, but since we import a lot of our fuel I am guessing it just got a lot more expensive....
Free movement of labour is Europe's equivalent of the 2nd amendment. Both written in very different times for very different circumstances. Free movement didn't matter when it was the EU9 - as the stats show, migration was broadly neutral for the UK.
Accession of much poorer countries has changed that dynamic completely. None of us are going to agree on immigration into this country, but look at the impact on places like Poland and Lithuania.
The individuals are doing well (they're benefiting from UK, French and German level wages and welfare), but the source countries have been badly impacted. The Poles are looking to import Belorussians to look after the Polish elderly and put in Polish central heating and so on. A third of Lithuanians are now abroad.
It has to be tempered somehow, for the benefit of both source and target countries. Universal principles can't be cleaved to under all circumstances, it just doesn't make sense.