Britain has chosen to be the lab rat in a giant experiment, breaking with the course of Western history since WW2, and the people leading the charge seemingly have no idea of what is at stake.
Now come on sir. Look at that comment, and think how patronising it might sound. You do not have a monopoly on geopolitical analysis.
I'm just making sure Mr Meeks doesn't have the monopoly on pomposity.
Seriously though, this is depressing, and it is an experiment...
Remember the IMF and IFS reports. Consider the last twenty years. Are there any developed countries that are poorer now than then?
I'm going to repeat 'nobody knows for sure' until I'm blue in the face. But we've had a wide range of models used to forecast Brexit; none lead to calamity.
Does that include ones where Corbyn became PM?
Labour policy from now on has to be Anti-austerity. Enough of Blairite nonsense. The shadow cabinet can jump into the Serpentine. Otherwise, we will lose the Northern voters like we did in Central Scotland.
Miliband was clearly anti-Austerity for a while. The press still helped to squash and caricature him as they have done with Monsieur Corbyn, and they're showing their influence again tonight.
Fascinating. Never seen a whole country commit suicide before. And looking at the results it's the pensioners and the wwc who are voting us out. Precisely the people who are most likely to suffer!
The problem with this whole debate has been that it has been about 51%, not 70%. There is a solution that would garner the support of 70% of the British people, and result in minimal economic impact from leaving:
EFTA/EEA, with compulsory health insurance for migrants. Just a small sum of - say - 2k/year would eliminate almost all non-skilled migration.
You just aren't listening to the voters, they will turn on you as an elite not clamping down on all migration. If you don't deliver this then there will be trouble.
I am a Leaver, and have been passionate about my views. They are shared by perhaps a third of the Leave side, and include Richard_T, Max, Casino, Cyclefree and others.
We need to come up with the solution that satisfies 70% of the population, not 51% of 51%.
So you used them then. They will come for you if they so much as get an inkling of that,
Wait: you don't think we should come up with a solution that satisfies 70% of the population?
Knowsley just split for Leave. That was 77.4% Labour.
The BBC did a piece there saying that it was the most likely place to vote Leave. In the end it did, but not by a huge amount.
If the BBC thought it was the most likely place then they definitely need an orienteering exercise. With Labour forecast to be 66-34 Remain it should have been nailed on.
I'm astonished that the results in so far don't provide a big enough sample to provide a pretty accurate projection. And yet the betting markets are still jumping up and down on every result.
I forget who said it earlier. But 'Little Englander' was a huge misjudgement. Let's keep repeating that.
Most of us know and like plenty of immigrants, are well travelled and well educated. It's "mass immigration", not "immigration" that causes the angst. Because of our daft welfare system, it's perceived as unfair.
Knowsley just split for Leave. That was 77.4% Labour.
The BBC did a piece there saying that it was the most likely place to vote Leave. In the end it did, but not by a huge amount.
If the BBC thought it was the most likely place then they definitely need an orienteering exercise. With Labour forecast to be 66-34 Remain it should have been nailed on.
I thought that would be Boston, and in the intro to its programme tonight I thought the BBC said the same?
I forget who said it earlier. But 'Little Englander' was a huge misjudgement. Let's keep repeating that.
Most of us know and like plenty of immigrants, are well travelled and well educated. It's "mass immigration", not "immigration" that causes the angst. Because of our daft welfare system, it's perceived as unfair.
I'm afraid they have to. Cameron, Osborne and co are finished and need to go asap.
Agreed, but I think we'll get a political vacuum for quite a while. Not only will it be a vacuum in terms of personalities, even more seriously there will be a vacuum in terms of policy, because no homework was done and the Leave campaign jumped on any passing populist bandwagon. The only 100% clear thing about the outcome is that it's a vote against free movement of people. So that rules out the EEA option.
Yes, EEA and acces to the single market are dead. The emergency measures taken need to be based on that.
I don't accept that. The referendum is on leaving the EU. All future options are there to be fought for.
Well now you know what happens when voters don't believe you are listening. This was made into a referendum on immigration, so you can't now escape the consequences of that.
I'm a voter myself. If we are leaving the EU I vote for EEA.
You don't represent the people who you got onside to put you over the line. They are yours now and you have to accommodate them.
I'm afraid they have to. Cameron, Osborne and co are finished and need to go asap.
Agreed, but I think we'll get a political vacuum for quite a while. Not only will it be a vacuum in terms of personalities, even more seriously there will be a vacuum in terms of policy, because no homework was done and the Leave campaign jumped on any passing populist bandwagon. The only 100% clear thing about the outcome is that it's a vote against free movement of people. So that rules out the EEA option.
Yes, EEA and acces to the single market are dead. The emergency measures taken need to be based on that.
I don't accept that. The referendum is on leaving the EU. All future options are there to be fought for.
Well now you know what happens when voters don't believe you are listening. This was made into a referendum on immigration, so you can't now escape the consequences of that.
I'm a voter myself. If we are leaving the EU I vote for EEA.
You don't represent the people who you got onside to put you over the line. They are yours now and you have to accommodate them.
No, the referendum is over. We have to do what is best for the entire nation now.
Fascinating. Never seen a whole country commit suicide before. And looking at the results it's the pensioners and the wwc who are voting us out. Precisely the people who are most likely to suffer!
The problem with this whole debate has been that it has been about 51%, not 70%. There is a solution that would garner the support of 70% of the British people, and result in minimal economic impact from leaving:
EFTA/EEA, with compulsory health insurance for migrants. Just a small sum of - say - 2k/year would eliminate almost all non-skilled migration.
You just aren't listening to the voters, they will turn on you as an elite not clamping down on all migration. If you don't deliver this then there will be trouble.
I am a Leaver, and have been passionate about my views. They are shared by perhaps a third of the Leave side, and include Richard_T, Max, Casino, Cyclefree and others.
We need to come up with the solution that satisfies 70% of the population, not 51% of 51%.
So you used them then. They will come for you if they so much as get an inkling of that,
Wait: you don't think we should come up with a solution that satisfies 70% of the population?
What about a solution that satisfies 60% of the population and enrages 40%? What's the threshold that you would say is good enough?
I'm afraid they have to. Cameron, Osborne and co are finished and need to go asap.
Agreed, but I think we'll get a political vacuum for quite a while. Not only will it be a vacuum in terms of personalities, even more seriously there will be a vacuum in terms of policy, because no homework was done and the Leave campaign jumped on any passing populist bandwagon. The only 100% clear thing about the outcome is that it's a vote against free movement of people. So that rules out the EEA option.
Yes, EEA and acces to the single market are dead. The emergency measures taken need to be based on that.
I don't accept that. The referendum is on leaving the EU. All future options are there to be fought for.
Well now you know what happens when voters don't believe you are listening. This was made into a referendum on immigration, so you can't now escape the consequences of that.
I'm a voter myself. If we are leaving the EU I vote for EEA.
You don't represent the people who you got onside to put you over the line. They are yours now and you have to accommodate them.
I would expect Redbridge to be remain but not hugely so, Newham similar
NEWHAM o_O ?:!
Newham is traditionally wwc but now with a very high BAME wc population - which indications from Birmingham and elsewhere suggests isn't breaking for remain as much as anticipated - plus a sprinkling of luxury flats along the river. I don't think as a whole it will be strongly remain.
what on earth is going on on betfair? Surely its lunacy for out to be 2.5 ? Or are there so many voters in Central London it could still be turned round?
I'm afraid they have to. Cameron, Osborne and co are finished and need to go asap.
Agreed, but I think we'll get a political vacuum for quite a while. Not only will it be a vacuum in terms of personalities, even more seriously there will be a vacuum in terms of policy, because no homework was done and the Leave campaign jumped on any passing populist bandwagon. The only 100% clear thing about the outcome is that it's a vote against free movement of people. So that rules out the EEA option.
Yes, EEA and acces to the single market are dead. The emergency measures taken need to be based on that.
I don't accept that. The referendum is on leaving the EU. All future options are there to be fought for.
Well now you know what happens when voters don't believe you are listening. This was made into a referendum on immigration, so you can't now escape the consequences of that.
I'm a voter myself. If we are leaving the EU I vote for EEA.
You don't represent the people who you got onside to put you over the line. They are yours now and you have to accommodate them.
I don't represent any people. I'm not a politician.
what on earth is going on on betfair? Surely its lunacy for out to be 2.5 ? Or are there so many voters in Central London it could still be turned round?
Comments
Oh the ironies of the Scousers & Mancs saving a Tory PM
Blackpool out
Moray in
But that's another big Leave win in a heavily Asian area.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-result-live-counting-leave-remain-brain-in-europe
Most of us know and like plenty of immigrants, are well travelled and well educated. It's "mass immigration", not "immigration" that causes the angst. Because of our daft welfare system, it's perceived as unfair.
Northamptonshire firmly Leave tonight.
In all the simplistic 'racism' wailing, its like someone overlooked this.
Completely completely crazy.
Never seen the markets so out of line.
For both him and us.
Though It will be pretty harsh rules for all migrants shortly.
Little Englanders on the march everywhere. What a crass statement that was by DC.
England 55% out
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/744657376561737728