''It is a historical low point for this country, made worse by the evident cluelessness as to what Leave actually want to do. There is nothing to discuss: it is a moral stain on the nation and I will have no part in pursuing this ugly and half-baked hobby horse.''
Stunning grace under fire.
I salute you sir!
Adding that to my 'Magnanimous in victory, gracious in defeat' scrapbook
Some (eg Meeks but also others) have been suggesting that a Leave win shows our nation at its worst. That it shows us to be negative, small minded etc. The opposite is true. It shows us at our best, proud, positive and upbeat.
The Remain campaign has run on pure fear and (self-)loathing. Some will today have voted Remain due to that fear, but the fact that a majority of the nation seems to have been confident enough in ourselves, confident enough in our ability, confident enough in our future to feel able to vote Leave. It makes me proud to be British.
My grandparents generation weren't cowed by the blitz. We haven't been cowed by Fear.
Some (eg Meeks but also others) have been suggesting that a Leave win shows our nation at its worst. That it shows us to be negative, small minded etc. The opposite is true. It shows us at our best, proud, positive and upbeat.
The Remain campaign has run on pure fear and (self-)loathing. Some will today have voted Remain due to that fear, but the fact that a majority of the nation seems to have been confident enough in ourselves, confident enough in our ability, confident enough in our future to feel able to vote Leave. It makes me proud to be British.
My grandparents generation weren't cowed by the blitz. We haven't been cowed by Fear.
This is the single most incredible electoral result of my lifetime.
Also the most pleasing, and the most scary.
I agree.
I read Charles' moving, and beautifully written reasons for why he voted Leave earlier and knew I'd made the right decision. But I wasn't expecting the numbers looking to agree with it!
Quite exciting though, even though many of us will lose our jobs and homes.
It is exciting. Then you remember Johnson, Gove, Patel and co are going to takeover, and millions of ordinary punters are looking at significant damage to their livelihoods, and it becomes a lot less attractive.
From my point of view it's not looking good for the economy, for society and cohesion, or the future of the UK as a unitary state. Still, the sun will still rise tomorrow morning, and it will still be summer.
What total piffle - you mean The Establishment are going to lose.
No, I think the ordinary working person will lose.
Some (eg Meeks but also others) have been suggesting that a Leave win shows our nation at its worst. That it shows us to be negative, small minded etc. The opposite is true. It shows us at our best, proud, positive and upbeat.
The Remain campaign has run on pure fear and (self-)loathing. Some will today have voted Remain due to that fear, but the fact that a majority of the nation seems to have been confident enough in ourselves, confident enough in our ability, confident enough in our future to feel able to vote Leave. It makes me proud to be British.
My grandparents generation weren't cowed by the blitz. We haven't been cowed by Fear.
I'm sorry, but this is an absurd simplification. A campaign including Farage's poster, and continual mention of "foreign criminals", by Gove, can very easily be accused of something other than positive, upbeat jollity. One type of fear has simply beaten another.
Oh I know this one (if the person is using it accurately). A projection is a straight line extrapolation of currently available information, a forecast is the manipulation of known information through an interpretative process to extend it in time or space.
At what time today does David Cameron announce his intention to resign?
He really shouldn't. That would be the equivalent of Ed Miliband walking out after the 2015 election, only in this case instead of the Labour Party being left to fall into chaos, he would be leaving the country.
Cameron caused this mess by misjudging the whole situation. The stakes are too high for him to walk away now and abdicate responsibility.
He is more likely to announce his intention to stand down and start the election process, meanwhile Osborne will attempt to calm things with an emergency budget with co-operation from the leave team. It's probably the best they can do but it will still be chaotic.
I'm afraid they have to. Cameron, Osborne and co are finished and need to go asap.
Agreed, but I think we'll get a political vacuum for quite a while. Not only will it be a vacuum in terms of personalities, even more seriously there will be a vacuum in terms of policy, because no homework was done and the Leave campaign jumped on any passing populist bandwagon. The only 100% clear thing about the outcome is that it's a vote against free movement of people. So that rules out the EEA option.
Britain has chosen to be the lab rat in a giant experiment, breaking with the course of Western history since WW2, and the people leading the charge seemingly have no idea of what is at stake.
Some (eg Meeks but also others) have been suggesting that a Leave win shows our nation at its worst. That it shows us to be negative, small minded etc. The opposite is true. It shows us at our best, proud, positive and upbeat.
The Remain campaign has run on pure fear and (self-)loathing. Some will today have voted Remain due to that fear, but the fact that a majority of the nation seems to have been confident enough in ourselves, confident enough in our ability, confident enough in our future to feel able to vote Leave. It makes me proud to be British.
My grandparents generation weren't cowed by the blitz. We haven't been cowed by Fear.
BBC / Sky pushing this narrative that it isn't just Leave doing better in "their" areas, Remain doing better in theirs....Fathead just said that about Oxford for Remain....I think we know better on here.
At what time today does David Cameron announce his intention to resign?
He really shouldn't. That would be the equivalent of Ed Miliband walking out after the 2015 election, only in this case instead of the Labour Party being left to fall into chaos, he would be leaving the country.
Cameron caused this mess by misjudging the whole situation. The stakes are too high for him to walk away now and abdicate responsibility.
He is more likely to announce his intention to stand down and start the election process, meanwhile Osborne will attempt to calm things with an emergency budget with co-operation from the leave team. It's probably the best they can do but it will still be chaotic.
No. Cameron needs to stay on for the immediate future. He does, however, need a major unifying reshuffle today. Promote leavers, Osborne out of the Treasury. Boris Party Chairman.
I'm afraid they have to. Cameron, Osborne and co are finished and need to go asap.
Agreed, but I think we'll get a political vacuum for quite a while. Not only will it be a vacuum in terms of personalities, even more seriously there will be a vacuum in terms of policy, because no homework was done and the Leave campaign jumped on any passing populist bandwagon. The only 100% clear thing about the outcome is that it's a vote against free movement of people. So that rules out the EEA option.
Yep - but Leave owns all of this. They just have to deliver.
Some (eg Meeks but also others) have been suggesting that a Leave win shows our nation at its worst. That it shows us to be negative, small minded etc. The opposite is true. It shows us at our best, proud, positive and upbeat.
The Remain campaign has run on pure fear and (self-)loathing. Some will today have voted Remain due to that fear, but the fact that a majority of the nation seems to have been confident enough in ourselves, confident enough in our ability, confident enough in our future to feel able to vote Leave. It makes me proud to be British.
My grandparents generation weren't cowed by the blitz. We haven't been cowed by Fear.
Britain has chosen to be the lab rat in a giant experiment, breaking with the course of Western history since WW2, and the people leading the charge seemingly have no idea of what is at stake.
The same could have been said on the eve of the industrial revolution, or when we broke from the Papacy, or when we declared war on Germany in 1939.
Is this the nail in the coffin on Project Fear? The SNP would be mad not to call indyref2 for as soon after Brexit as possible, when Scots will be most inclined to leave the UK. the economic arguments won't wash this time. Nicola should phrase the referendum as Scotland refusing to leave the EU and therefore requiring a separation from the rest of the UK
Britain has chosen to be the lab rat in a giant experiment, breaking with the course of Western history since WW2, and the people leading the charge seemingly have no idea of what is at stake.
Now come on sir. Look at that comment, and think how patronising it might sound. You do not have a monopoly on geopolitical analysis.
Britain has chosen to be the lab rat in a giant experiment, breaking with the course of Western history since WW2, and the people leading the charge seemingly have no idea of what is at stake.
I'm afraid they have to. Cameron, Osborne and co are finished and need to go asap.
Agreed, but I think we'll get a political vacuum for quite a while. Not only will it be a vacuum in terms of personalities, even more seriously there will be a vacuum in terms of policy, because no homework was done and the Leave campaign jumped on any passing populist bandwagon. The only 100% clear thing about the outcome is that it's a vote against free movement of people. So that rules out the EEA option.
Yes, EEA and access to the single market are dead. The emergency measures taken need to be based on that.
And now that the campaign is over I can reveal why the pollsters got it wrong.
The pollsters who got the result right last time still changed their methodology, they tried to fix something that was all right and they broke it.
The pollsters who got things wrong last time tried to correct this, and they where bang on the Ref result last week, the problem is that they kept changing their methodology all the time, or they simply disregarded their polls and did forecasts instead.
Populus was simply working for Remain so it's no surprise they publised those numbers. The Remain campaign knew that they where going to lose, that's why Cameron panicked and did that speech in front of No.10 .
Sky doing a bit on the forex - both channels really ought to have kept some biz/econ correspondents up all night to watch the markets in case something like this happened. The studio bods seem to struggle keeping up with the data coming in, especially above/below par, they might actually do better to watch the currency.
More interesting will be FTSE 250, as FTSE 100 is full of companies with international earnings that do better in the case of Brexit. We own Wolsely, for example, which is a big US Dollar earner.
Quite exciting though, even though many of us will lose our jobs and homes.
It is exciting. Then you remember Johnson, Gove, Patel and co are going to takeover, and millions of ordinary punters are looking at significant damage to their livelihoods, and it becomes a lot less attractive.
Unfortunately I think it's worse than that. It was completely clear from the campaign that they are not ready to take over, and haven't got the least clue even about the economic danger, let alone about a plan for dealing with it.
I'm afraid they have to. Cameron, Osborne and co are finished and need to go asap.
Well done SO - you got a prediction right at last!
Actually, I'm on a roll. Next tip: buy shares in Betrayal.
Sky doing a bit on the forex - both channels really ought to have kept some biz/econ correspondents up all night to watch the markets in case something like this happened. The studio bods seem to struggle keeping up with the data coming in, especially above/below par, they might actually do better to watch the currency.
Comments
Par spreadsheet: Remain 50.4%
Actual Remain result: 41.98%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7wEUlpaYjY
Eh?
Wellingborough, #EUref result:
Remain: 37.6% (15,462)
Leave: 62.4% (25,679)
Oh my God.
33% Remain
Par was 40%
Greenwich council leader says "it's too close to call". Greenwich.
49,424 (70.3%)
20,913 (29.7%)
Par was 69.3%.
That is bedrock 100% labour territory. St Helens.
Goodness.
Tomorrow, despite the armageddon, it will be worth visiting the Twitter feeds of Andrew Cooper, Will Straw and Dan Hodges!
We are a revolutionary country.
Why do I lose every election?!?
Now come on sir. Look at that comment, and think how patronising it might sound. You do not have a monopoly on geopolitical analysis.
Oh, right it was Lambeth+Exeter+Oxford
Remain 168,335 (66.6%)
Leave 84,474 (33.4%)
The pollsters who got the result right last time still changed their methodology, they tried to fix something that was all right and they broke it.
The pollsters who got things wrong last time tried to correct this, and they where bang on the Ref result last week, the problem is that they kept changing their methodology all the time, or they simply disregarded their polls and did forecasts instead.
Populus was simply working for Remain so it's no surprise they publised those numbers.
The Remain campaign knew that they where going to lose, that's why Cameron panicked and did that speech in front of No.10 .
Am still reeling from Bury, tbh. Went to school there, its a stable and hardworking bit of Greater Manchester. My mum's generation are carrying this.