I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
I thought that after the 1st debate, but the next day I was leafleting (for Leave) on a local council estate, and the people I spoke to thought she was great.
She's a wonderful person. And being a (contintental) European, some people may think:-
"She probably knows more about this than us, and she sounds like she's some kind of whistle-blower, warning us of the insidious nature of the EU."
Not a gamechanger. We all heard our own side more than the other one. On that basis, good for Leave.
Some muppet called the referendum during the footie... Who knows who was watching.
Some of us managed to watch both matches, catch the end of the cricket, listen to the debate, post here, as well as make a night cap for my wife (an hour ahead), take the dog for a quick waz, drink a couple of glasses of chianti, eat some nuts, re-charge a couple of gadgets, put the laundry out and put a couple of punts on betfair....
Well I score the debate as a draw - REMAIN was better than the ITV debate - Only because of Ruth - But Boris closed it out perfectly and I was genuinely surprised when he got that ovation.
Overall don't think it will have made much difference either way though Boris's closing remarks might have "firmed up" one or two waverers for LEAVE.
I have just had an email from the Labour party (i paid 3 quid to vote for Jez) reminding me there is an election on Thursday. It says the election is important. It allows me help to find my polling station and suggests I make a plan for when I vote. NO WHERE does it suggest I vote Remain.
Blimey! I've just reread my copy of that - no mention at all of how to vote! Go Labour! There is hope for us yet!
Also says that (a) the party knows a significant number of supporters are for leave and (b) we are planning to all still be mates afterwards
If that isn't a nod for Labour to vote Leave then I don't know what is!
Corbyn really is an closet outer isnt he.... Thats amazing
He's only been a closet outer for a few months, after his party stuffed him back in the closet. Before that he was a vocal outer, it's about the only thing on which he and I are in agreement.
Couple of observations. Ruth Davidson is a possible future Tory leader. Diq Khan is the same witless, charmless, nasty little shyster he has always been. Stuart and Leadsom were disappointing (Francis O'Grady might as well not have been there). Boris did just enough I think, especially with the final statement. Score draw, but it could have been between Ruth and Boris.
Living in Scotland we know what a performer Ruth Davidson is. I hope whatever the side of the referendum you're on you can see that she is formidable. A real life back story, served in the forces, articulate. One to watch
I do get it now. I see why some really want her at Westminster, but the path doesn't look there in the near future.
I find Gisela Stuart very odd. Curious manner, or it could be cultural misunderstanding of her german manner.
I thought that after the 1st debate, but the next day I was leafleting (for Leave) on a local council estate, and the people I spoke to thought she was great.
She's a wonderful person. And being a (contintental) European, some people may think:-
"She probably knows more about this than us, and she sounds like she's some kind of whistle-blower, warning us of the insidious nature of the EU."
I think that's spot on. I find I pay more attention to her because she sounds a little unfamiliar, her manner is cooler than we're used to. I really like her.
Leadsom grinning as smugly as Osborne on a bad day.
F*cks like you are the reason we are here. If you had allowed a vote on the EU Constitution we would have stalled EU integration, and we wouldn't be faced with this hideous binary decision.
Do you now realise this?
You actually like this referendum and wish we'd had it sooner? There speaks a torture porn author.
The referendum has been awful, but we need to have this debate - clearly 50% of people want to leave, what good comes from ignoring that rather than taking it on?
The referendum has been awful because of the people making the case. The 1975 one was, I am told, much more civilised.
Leadsom grinning as smugly as Osborne on a bad day.
F*cks like you are the reason we are here. If you had allowed a vote on the EU Constitution we would have stalled EU integration, and we wouldn't be faced with this hideous binary decision.
Do you now realise this?
You actually like this referendum and wish we'd had it sooner? There speaks a torture porn author.
The referendum has been awful, but we need to have this debate - clearly 50% of people want to leave, what good comes from ignoring that rather than taking it on?
The referendum has been awful because of the people making the case. The 1975 one was, I am told, much more civilised.
We believed what politicians told us then.
No, we didn't believe (or take sufficient account of) Peter Shore et al.
Couple of observations. Ruth Davidson is a possible future Tory leader. Diq Khan is the same witless, charmless, nasty little shyster he has always been. Stuart and Leadsom were disappointing (Francis O'Grady might as well not have been there). Boris did just enough I think, especially with the final statement. Score draw, but it could have been between Ruth and Boris.
@RobDotHutton: Ruth Davidson was at 44-1 for next Tory leader on Betfair 90 minutes ago. 26-1 now.
She won't be *next* Tory leader, given that she isn't an MP and is unlikely to become one before Cameron resigns.
I agree it won't happen (not least because the job is not done in Scotland for her, and it would be spun as Holyrood being for second stringers as far as unionists think), but are the Tory rules explicit leader must be an MP? Or could she win, Mundell steps down and she wins his seat? (I know they came close in one other seat, but I presume that's the only one she could win)
@RobDotHutton: Ruth Davidson was at 44-1 for next Tory leader on Betfair 90 minutes ago. 26-1 now.
She won't be *next* Tory leader, given that she isn't an MP and is unlikely to become one before Cameron resigns.
Just like to point out that I tipped this one in early 2015, I think? Still can't see exactly how it will happen. But she's pretty much the only Tory wit helectoral appeal right now. And being in Scotland for now she''s likely to survive the bloodbath that's due to start on Friday morning.
Or could she win, Mundell steps down and she wins his seat? (I know they came close in one other seat, but I presume that's the only one she could win)
I wouldn't overly fancy the Tories' chances of winning a mid-term by-election, in a seat they won by less than 2% in the General
@RobDotHutton: Ruth Davidson was at 44-1 for next Tory leader on Betfair 90 minutes ago. 26-1 now.
She won't be *next* Tory leader, given that she isn't an MP and is unlikely to become one before Cameron resigns.
I agree it won't happen (not least because the job is not done in Scotland for her, and it would be spun as Holyrood being for second stringers as far as unionists think), but are the Tory rules explicit leader must be an MP? Or could she win, Mundell steps down and she wins his seat? (I know they came close in one other seat, but I presume that's the only one she could win)
I'd be surprised if a Remain supporting MP had a prayer in the Con leadership contest. That's going to stick.
Couple of observations. Ruth Davidson is a possible future Tory leader. Diq Khan is the same witless, charmless, nasty little shyster he has always been. Stuart and Leadsom were disappointing (Francis O'Grady might as well not have been there). Boris did just enough I think, especially with the final statement. Score draw, but it could have been between Ruth and Boris.
My favourite bit was Boris pinning Sadiq down on EU supremacy over our laws "You're a lawyer, you know this is true". His face was a picture.
Or could she win, Mundell steps down and she wins his seat? (I know they came close in one other seat, but I presume that's the only one she could win)
I wouldn't overly fancy the Tories' chances of winning a mid-term by-election, in a seat they won by less than 2% in the General
I was assuming at least some relaxation of SNP fervour and her own quality making it a more viable prospect, but it'd be bloody embarrassing to try it and fail.
Couple of observations. Ruth Davidson is a possible future Tory leader. Diq Khan is the same witless, charmless, nasty little shyster he has always been. Stuart and Leadsom were disappointing (Francis O'Grady might as well not have been there). Boris did just enough I think, especially with the final statement. Score draw, but it could have been between Ruth and Boris.
My favourite bit was Boris pinning Sadiq down on EU supremacy over our laws "You're a lawyer, you know this is true". His face was a picture.
That was a good one, I was surprised he didn't hammer the point home. Khan is just ok I think, His one really passionate moment was shot down in second, but he can do calm and collected reasonably well.
@jimwaterson: Remain spokespeople are now distancing themselves from Lord Sugar and saying this tweet is unacceptable. https://t.co/mvKBOUblYv
@mrdavidwhitley: And in a nutshell, you have the difference between the Leave and Remain teams. Leave would have bluffed around it. https://t.co/R9GTkf0DP8
Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
Go on, do tell... Got a link?
Twit. Really? Still twitter is a good way to shoot yourself in the foot.
I'm surprised that, particularly for higher profile users, people don't use an app that gives 5 minutes of thinking time between when you submit a twitter comment and when it actually gets posted. Then gives you a confirmation screen before the final go-ahead.
Okay, it'd be less dynamic and responsive - but would have saved an awful lot of blushes.
I didn't see the debate but looks like Remain's night from the news
They didn't fall apart, and Davidson in particular was mostly great (not every line worked), but if people vote on immigration, there's no way for Remain to win, they cannot win that argument. They could say Leave don't really want to reduce immigration if they want, but they don't either (or can't) and most people do want that.
Would it offend everyone if I said I thought that the debate was rather good?
I don't think anyone shone particularly, and neither side won. However both sides made some good points and convinced me of their individual conviction.
(Minor disaster for Farron though, but that's irrelevant in this context)
Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
Go on, do tell... Got a link?
Twit. Really? Still twitter is a good way to shoot yourself in the foot.
I'm surprised that, particularly for higher profile users, people don't use an app that gives 5 minutes of thinking time between when you submit a twitter comment and when it actually gets posted. Then gives you a confirmation screen before the final go-ahead.
Okay, it'd be less dynamic and responsive - but would have saved an awful lot of blushes.
Or at least have someone in charge of your twitter account rather than yourself.
@jimwaterson: Remain spokespeople are now distancing themselves from Lord Sugar and saying this tweet is unacceptable. https://t.co/mvKBOUblYv
@mrdavidwhitley: And in a nutshell, you have the difference between the Leave and Remain teams. Leave would have bluffed around it. https://t.co/R9GTkf0DP8
Like they did with the poster
Do you have any tweets about Sadiq Khan in your Mayoral back catalogue?
As I said on the last thread I just feel at last that this is edging Leave's way. I don't see tonight being enough to stop that. It was a score and bloody draw at best.
Both sides got their messages over to their own supporters and I think both sides were more focussed on getting their supporters out than winning over the still undecided (and probably rightly so).
This is all about turnout. Do Remainers care for the "not perfect" EU described by Ruth or are they sufficiently scared about their investments and incomes to come out? Do Leavers believe that a better future is possible if the fearmongers are faced down?
Tough call but I am sticking with my earlier decision. Leave to win 52:48.
Osborne's over-borrowing is likely to exceed £200bn next month and to be approaching £240bn by the end of 2016.
Enjoy paying your share back.
While I think he's about to be sacked - either going down with a Leave win, or sacrificed to save Cameron after a Remain win - given it seems even many Tories don't want austerity anymore, it doesn't seem like his successor will fix that mess.
Whoever is chancellor in 2020 is going to argue the job is not yet done and labour cannot be trusted on the economy. After having 10 years to handle what they identified as the main goal and failing.
Would it offend everyone if I said I thought that the debate was rather good?
I don't think anyone shone particularly, and neither side won. However both sides made some good points and convinced me of their individual conviction.
(Minor disaster for Farron though, but that's irrelevant in this context)
What did Mr Farron do? (I made a tea during the panel bit.)
Leadsom grinning as smugly as Osborne on a bad day.
F*cks like you are the reason we are here. If you had allowed a vote on the EU Constitution we would have stalled EU integration, and we wouldn't be faced with this hideous binary decision.
Do you now realise this?
You actually like this referendum and wish we'd had it sooner? There speaks a torture porn author.
Err-its called Democracy I appreciate allowing the public a vote is annoying but TOUGH
Lord Sugar has just proven David Cameron's maxim about Twitter
Go on, do tell... Got a link?
Twit. Really? Still twitter is a good way to shoot yourself in the foot.
I'm surprised that, particularly for higher profile users, people don't use an app that gives 5 minutes of thinking time between when you submit a twitter comment and when it actually gets posted. Then gives you a confirmation screen before the final go-ahead.
Okay, it'd be less dynamic and responsive - but would have saved an awful lot of blushes.
Quite. The biggest problem is that a throw away off the cuff remark made down the pub could be forgotten but a tweet is carved in pixels forever.
Would it offend everyone if I said I thought that the debate was rather good?
I don't think anyone shone particularly, and neither side won. However both sides made some good points and convinced me of their individual conviction.
(Minor disaster for Farron though, but that's irrelevant in this context)
What did Mr Farron do? (I made a tea during the panel bit.)
I think we've established Betfair will only move if at 5am on Friday morning LEAVE have won.
No- TSE has already given us the heads up that there is some private polling being commissioned by the banks so doubtless we will see some big moves on betfair mid afternoon on Thursday.
As I said on the last thread I just feel at last that this is edging Leave's way. I don't see tonight being enough to stop that. It was a score and bloody draw at best.
Both sides got their messages over to their own supporters and I think both sides were more focussed on getting their supporters out than winning over the still undecided (and probably rightly so).
This is all about turnout. Do Remainers care for the "not perfect" EU described by Ruth or are they sufficiently scared about their investments and incomes to come out? Do Leavers believe that a better future is possible if the fearmongers are faced down?
Tough call but I am sticking with my earlier decision. Leave to win 52:48.
Vote Leave have been dreadful. 'Take Control' I still think is an awful slogan.
BUT if by some miracle Leave wins, it will be because of the people. Because they just decided enough was enough. And that shit though Leave are, they preferred a rag tag mob with their best interests at heart to a self-interested malevolent political class.
@RobDotHutton: Ruth Davidson was at 44-1 for next Tory leader on Betfair 90 minutes ago. 26-1 now.
She won't be *next* Tory leader, given that she isn't an MP and is unlikely to become one before Cameron resigns.
I agree it won't happen (not least because the job is not done in Scotland for her, and it would be spun as Holyrood being for second stringers as far as unionists think), but are the Tory rules explicit leader must be an MP? Or could she win, Mundell steps down and she wins his seat? (I know they came close in one other seat, but I presume that's the only one she could win)
An interesting question. The nomination and elimination stages are conducted by MPs, with the Chairman of the '22 acting as returning officer. I can't see anything that says the nominee must be an MP, although they must be proposed and seconded by two MPs. So yes, your scenario is possible, she would then have to either be elevated to the Peerage or stand in a by-election. Also I believe that election to be an MP disqualifies you from being an MSP, so she would have to stand down from Holyrood to sit in Westminster. Not going to happen though. Maybe next time. http://conservativehome.blogs.com/files/snpc-01366-2-1.pdf
Not a gamechanger. We all heard our own side more than the other one. On that basis, good for Leave.
Some muppet called the referendum during the footie... Who knows who was watching.
Some of us managed to watch both matches, catch the end of the cricket, listen to the debate, post here, as well as make a night cap for my wife (an hour ahead), take the dog for a quick waz, drink a couple of glasses of chianti, eat some nuts, re-charge a couple of gadgets, put the laundry out and put a couple of punts on betfair....
@DPJHodges: Thought final speeches framed problem for Leave. Boris rallying cry will inspire Brexit supporters. But Davidson will have reached waverers.
As I said on the last thread I just feel at last that this is edging Leave's way. I don't see tonight being enough to stop that. It was a score and bloody draw at best.
Both sides got their messages over to their own supporters and I think both sides were more focussed on getting their supporters out than winning over the still undecided (and probably rightly so).
This is all about turnout. Do Remainers care for the "not perfect" EU described by Ruth or are they sufficiently scared about their investments and incomes to come out? Do Leavers believe that a better future is possible if the fearmongers are faced down?
Tough call but I am sticking with my earlier decision. Leave to win 52:48.
I think it will be very close but at least here in London things look a bit better. Recent canvassing returns are significantly better than I had previously reported on the site. Still very knife-edge though - the betting value is with Leave. However I am hopeful we can dodge a bullet and vote remain.
As I said on the last thread I just feel at last that this is edging Leave's way. I don't see tonight being enough to stop that. It was a score and bloody draw at best.
Both sides got their messages over to their own supporters and I think both sides were more focussed on getting their supporters out than winning over the still undecided (and probably rightly so).
This is all about turnout. Do Remainers care for the "not perfect" EU described by Ruth or are they sufficiently scared about their investments and incomes to come out? Do Leavers believe that a better future is possible if the fearmongers are faced down?
Tough call but I am sticking with my earlier decision. Leave to win 52:48.
Vote Leave have been dreadful. 'Take Control' I still think is an awful slogan.
BUT if by some miracle Leave wins, it will be because of the people. Because they just decided enough was enough. And that shit though Leave are, they preferred a rag tag mob with their best interests at heart to a self-interested malevolent political class.
hahahaha
Boris Johnson not part of the self-interested malevolent political class.
Comments
"She probably knows more about this than us, and she sounds like she's some kind of whistle-blower, warning us of the insidious nature of the EU."
Some of us managed to watch both matches, catch the end of the cricket, listen to the debate, post here, as well as make a night cap for my wife (an hour ahead), take the dog for a quick waz, drink a couple of glasses of chianti, eat some nuts, re-charge a couple of gadgets, put the laundry out and put a couple of punts on betfair....
And they said men couldn't multi task
Overall don't think it will have made much difference either way though Boris's closing remarks might have "firmed up" one or two waverers for LEAVE.
@RobDotHutton: Ruth Davidson was at 44-1 for next Tory leader on Betfair 90 minutes ago. 26-1 now.
I suspect the word 'lying' is superfluous.
The line of the night.
Don't Remain actually think any of these things through?
Still can't see exactly how it will happen. But she's pretty much the only Tory wit helectoral appeal right now. And being in Scotland for now she''s likely to survive the bloodbath that's due to start on Friday morning.
Bloody hell--I've just seen the drawer. One of Italy, Spain, Germany, France, England.....Oh dear
@mrdavidwhitley: And in a nutshell, you have the difference between the Leave and Remain teams. Leave would have bluffed around it. https://t.co/R9GTkf0DP8
Like they did with the poster
Predicted Borrowing:
2010/11 £149bn
2011/12 £116bn
2012/13 £89bn
2013/14 £60bn
2014/15 £37bn
2015/16 £20bn
2016/17 surplus
Total £471bn
Actual Borrowing:
2010/11 £137bn
2011/12 £116bn
2012/13 £123bn
2013/14 £104bn
2014/15 £92bn
2015/16 £75bn
2016/17 £18bn (after 2 months)
Total £665bn
An overall over-borrowing of £194bn
Osborne's over-borrowing is likely to exceed £200bn next month and to be approaching £240bn by the end of 2016.
Enjoy paying your share back.
Okay, it'd be less dynamic and responsive - but would have saved an awful lot of blushes.
I don't think anyone shone particularly, and neither side won. However both sides made some good points and convinced me of their individual conviction.
(Minor disaster for Farron though, but that's irrelevant in this context)
Both sides got their messages over to their own supporters and I think both sides were more focussed on getting their supporters out than winning over the still undecided (and probably rightly so).
This is all about turnout. Do Remainers care for the "not perfect" EU described by Ruth or are they sufficiently scared about their investments and incomes to come out? Do Leavers believe that a better future is possible if the fearmongers are faced down?
Tough call but I am sticking with my earlier decision. Leave to win 52:48.
Though he is quite dignified in the circumstances
Whoever is chancellor in 2020 is going to argue the job is not yet done and labour cannot be trusted on the economy. After having 10 years to handle what they identified as the main goal and failing.
I appreciate allowing the public a vote is annoying but TOUGH
Italy
Germany
France
Spain
England
Leave might win the vote, but then he has to explain to half the country who voted "to keep the foreigners out" that he isn't going to do it.
Is this a spoof account ?
https://twitter.com/StrongerInTheEU/status/745365643629821952 ???????????
This is one of my personal favs
BUT if by some miracle Leave wins, it will be because of the people. Because they just decided enough was enough. And that shit though Leave are, they preferred a rag tag mob with their best interests at heart to a self-interested malevolent political class.
So yes, your scenario is possible, she would then have to either be elevated to the Peerage or stand in a by-election. Also I believe that election to be an MP disqualifies you from being an MSP, so she would have to stand down from Holyrood to sit in Westminster.
Not going to happen though. Maybe next time.
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/files/snpc-01366-2-1.pdf
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice...
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges 29m29 minutes ago
I've been critical of Leave. Alan Sugar's comment is a disgrace.
Boris Johnson not part of the self-interested malevolent political class.
hahahaha