Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
In Scotland I saw a Vote Remain poster in Edinburgh yesterday. That is the only one for either side I have seen. Neither side had any presence in Dundee City centre today. You really have to look hard for any evidence at all that this referendum is happening up here.
Corbyn was in Aberdeen today with Remain but understandly Scotland is pretty referendumed out
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU
No. I've said repeatedly on here (well, at least twice) that a LEAVE vote should be followed by an Article 50 invocation ASAP, to avoid administrative chaos.
I think that's a somewhat naive interpretation. Vote LEAVE are running on a very clear prospectus: Leave EU, leave EEA, institute a points-based system, renegotiate relationships ad novum with every other country. If LEAVE win then that's a mandate for same.
Dan Hannan would disagree with you. As would BfB (which was the core of VoteLeave)
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Why would it be Johnson/Gove? Would Tory MPs and activists necessarily go for a Brexiter? Surely the debate will be over? A steady hand like Teresa May who's kept her head down might be just the (gin and) tonic.
Because they'll have been the ones who've just won an election
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election.
It's not an election.
It's just a Thursday in the UK when the UK electorate will select between options presented to them by distinct groups by placing a cross in a box on a slip of paper, the results of which will shape the makeup of the Government in Whitehall and the Parliament in Westminster
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
"He highlighted the 42pc of Britons who said they would vote for Brexit, and also believed that EFTA membership should be considered, against 45pc of leavers who said it should not."
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
I had lunch at King's Cross/St. Pancras yesterday, an area which was distinctly seedy last time I was there around 5 - 6 years ago. What a transformation! - I just felt so proud at what has been achieved over such a comparatively short period. Even the tube stations these days are so modern, so clean, so impressive, God this is a great city and no mistake!
The entire Kings X/Pancras area, and the post-industrial district north of it, is probably the single greatest urban redevelopment in the world in the last 20 years.
I'm a lurker on international architecture websites, and I know architects and urban planners come from across the globe to see what we did in Kings Cross. It is regarded as THE exemplar of urban regeneration. And rightly so. It is astonishing.
We also fuck things up, of course. Nine Elms looks a bit ominous.
The new Tube stations on the Northern line extension at Nine Elms and Battersea Park will sort that
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
"He highlighted the 42pc of Britons who said they would vote for Brexit, and also believed that EFTA membership should be considered, against 45pc of leavers who said it should not."
Off topic, I asked awhile back on travel advice, but ran into trouble renewing my passport (now resolved) and not wanting to make plans for the summer before I had it, have probably missed my chance for good summer plans.
Any suggestions for a decent locale for an autumnal getaway? Areas of historical interest in particular? Money's no object, unless we're talking tens of thousands. I had been thinking Russia when planning for the summer.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
If Leave wins it will be off the back of a campaign to end free movement and implement a points based system for all. Anyone on the Leave side who is anticipating finding a way to avoid following through on this is playing with fire.
There will be a negotiation and a solution.
Free movement within the EEA is different to free movement in the EU and would address most of the concerns of the population.
Try explaining to people that this new free movement is different from the old free movement. That's the attitude that will propel Corbyn to Downing Street.
'Wouldn't do anything to risk the continued success of London as a world city'? You just have.
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
Off topic, I asked awhile back on travel advice, but ran into trouble renewing my passport (now resolved) and not wanting to make plans for the summer before I had it, have probably missed my chance for good summer plans.
Any suggestions for a decent locale for an autumnal getaway? Areas of historical interest in particular? Money's no object, unless we're talking tens of thousands. I had been thinking Russia when planning for the summer.
I enjoyed Cornwall and the South West.
European City breaks can be quite cheap, sometimes cheaper than staying in the UK
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
"He highlighted the 42pc of Britons who said they would vote for Brexit, and also believed that EFTA membership should be considered, against 45pc of leavers who said it should not."
Oops my bad.
If those numbers are right and we get a narrow Leave victory (less than 52% for example) then - based on the fact that I assume almost all of Remain voters would prefer EEA to completely out, you would be looking at a very heavy majority of voters - approaching 70% - preferring the EEA option to completely out. .
If the currency crashes, that makes the UK cheaper to visit, surely?
Yes it does. And the visitors can gawp at the newly-impoverished locals whose life savings have just gone byebye and whose earnings can barely buy a blackened crust.
I exaggerate for effect there, but it is true that countries can really suffer really quickly: look at Russia in the 90's. Once a country starts thinking sound finances and growth are optional extras which can be abandoned to vainglories, it finds out pretty quickly they're not.
Finally, what terrible fate is befalling the construction workers of London that requires an endless inflow of new ones, cheap or not? Do they finish a skyscraper, pat each other on the back and then hurl them from the pinnacle?
Off topic, I asked awhile back on travel advice, but ran into trouble renewing my passport (now resolved) and not wanting to make plans for the summer before I had it, have probably missed my chance for good summer plans.
Any suggestions for a decent locale for an autumnal getaway? Areas of historical interest in particular? Money's no object, unless we're talking tens of thousands. I had been thinking Russia when planning for the summer.
St Petersburg is lovely. I'm going there in August.
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
There was a cut back in state pensions by at least one country in the EU. Funny that. They stayed in the EU in recent years and after the recession they cut state pensions and other state benefits. That country is Ireland.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
He sounds fine to me thanks.
Agreed. Those of us who have been around PB long enough have come to realise Charles' family move in rather exalted circles within the City. I take his comments as a simple statement of fact rather than any kind of pretension.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
If Leave wins it will be off the back of a campaign to end free movement and implement a points based system for all. Anyone on the Leave side who is anticipating finding a way to avoid following through on this is playing with fire.
There will be a negotiation and a solution.
Free movement within the EEA is different to free movement in the EU and would address most of the concerns of the population.
Try explaining to people that this new free movement is different from the old free movement. That's the attitude that will propel Corbyn to Downing Street.
'Wouldn't do anything to risk the continued success of London as a world city'? You just have.
Actually you can make health insurance compulsory and no benefits and social housing as well which you can't do in the EU. So it looks like free movement but is in fact costly movement.
It's a market solution that stops cheap labour but allows skilled.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
If Leave wins it will be off the back of a campaign to end free movement and implement a points based system for all. Anyone on the Leave side who is anticipating finding a way to avoid following through on this is playing with fire.
There will be a negotiation and a solution.
Free movement within the EEA is different to free movement in the EU and would address most of the concerns of the population.
Try explaining to people that this new free movement is different from the old free movement. That's the attitude that will propel Corbyn to Downing Street.
'Wouldn't do anything to risk the continued success of London as a world city'? You just have.
EEA migrants need a firm job offer to come here. They don't get benefits. You can use those two to make low-skilled immigration unattractive. (It's low skilled immigration that people get upset about). You then use the points based system to make sure that scientists, etc can come here with ease.
People who are upset about immigration aren't upset because of the numbers. They are upset because of the impact on their lives. Address that and you will be fine*
* With the necessary political PR fluff about emergency brakes, etc.
Off topic, I asked awhile back on travel advice, but ran into trouble renewing my passport (now resolved) and not wanting to make plans for the summer before I had it, have probably missed my chance for good summer plans.
Any suggestions for a decent locale for an autumnal getaway? Areas of historical interest in particular? Money's no object, unless we're talking tens of thousands. I had been thinking Russia when planning for the summer.
I enjoyed Cornwall and the South West.
I live in the SW and have to agree - but not having been on a proper holiday for 15 years, thinking of going further afield. I was thinking of Rome perhaps
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
He sounds fine to me thanks.
Agreed. Those of us who have been around PB long enough have come to realise Charles' family move in rather exalted circles within the City. I take his comments as a simple statement of fact rather than any kind of pretension.
Thirded. I've met Charles, very humble and decent chap
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
That would be the right comparison if it was *London* that was considering independence.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
He sounds fine to me thanks.
Agreed. Those of us who have been around PB long enough have come to realise Charles' family move in rather exalted circles within the City. I take his comments as a simple statement of fact rather than any kind of pretension.
I always take off my cap and stand when reading Charles's posts. I know my place .
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Why would it be Johnson/Gove? Would Tory MPs and activists necessarily go for a Brexiter? Surely the debate will be over? A steady hand like Teresa May who's kept her head down might be just the (gin and) tonic.
Because they'll have been the ones who've just won an election
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election.
It's not an election.
It's just a Thursday in the UK when the UK electorate will select between options presented to them by distinct groups by placing a cross in a box on a slip of paper, the results of which will shape the makeup of the Government in Whitehall and the Parliament in Westminster
It will shape the makeup of neither of those.
It won;t shape the makeup of Parliament (I left out the words "laws considered by"), but it will shape the makeup of Government: new PM, new Government, that's how it works. The Civil Service claim (with some justification) that it's only a nominal change, but it is more than that.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
He sounds fine to me thanks.
Agreed. Those of us who have been around PB long enough have come to realise Charles' family move in rather exalted circles within the City. I take his comments as a simple statement of fact rather than any kind of pretension.
I take them as having some pretension, but it makes me feel almost like I'm mixing with the nobs for a change
Off topic, I asked awhile back on travel advice, but ran into trouble renewing my passport (now resolved) and not wanting to make plans for the summer before I had it, have probably missed my chance for good summer plans.
Any suggestions for a decent locale for an autumnal getaway? Areas of historical interest in particular? Money's no object, unless we're talking tens of thousands. I had been thinking Russia when planning for the summer.
I enjoyed Cornwall and the South West.
I live in the SW and have to agree - but not having been on a proper holiday for 15 years, thinking of going further afield. I was thinking of Rome perhaps
I like the eternal city. Been a few times, usually coinciding with England playing there in the six nations.
Remain's lost. This is the end of Cameron's tether.
Is this Cameron turning into an evil supervillain? "Remember I'm still Prime Minister, plebs - if you don't vote Remain, who knows what I'll do? Buwahahahaha!" etc. An original strategy.
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
He sounds fine to me thanks.
Agreed. Those of us who have been around PB long enough have come to realise Charles' family move in rather exalted circles within the City. I take his comments as a simple statement of fact rather than any kind of pretension.
I always take off my cap and stand when reading Charles's posts. I know my place .
LOL I live below stairs so don't even get to read his comments myself. They are read to us by the butler before prayers at supper.
By rights the English team should be able to cope with the climate in Marseilles better than the Russians. That should show in this last 10 - 12 minutes.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
He sounds fine to me thanks.
Agreed. Those of us who have been around PB long enough have come to realise Charles' family move in rather exalted circles within the City. I take his comments as a simple statement of fact rather than any kind of pretension.
Thirded. I've met Charles, very humble and decent chap
Fourthed. I've also met Charles, and I agree with all the above.
Off topic, I asked awhile back on travel advice, but ran into trouble renewing my passport (now resolved) and not wanting to make plans for the summer before I had it, have probably missed my chance for good summer plans.
Any suggestions for a decent locale for an autumnal getaway? Areas of historical interest in particular? Money's no object, unless we're talking tens of thousands. I had been thinking Russia when planning for the summer.
I enjoyed Cornwall and the South West.
I live in the SW and have to agree - but not having been on a proper holiday for 15 years, thinking of going further afield. I was thinking of Rome perhaps
I like the eternal city. Been a few times, usually coinciding with England playing there in the six nations.
I suspect that's quite a pleasant and civilized experience. I haven't done Rome for football, but I know it's not for the faint hearted.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
He sounds fine to me thanks.
Agreed. Those of us who have been around PB long enough have come to realise Charles' family move in rather exalted circles within the City. I take his comments as a simple statement of fact rather than any kind of pretension.
I always take off my cap and stand when reading Charles's posts. I know my place .
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Wow. Are you trying to win the world championships in arrogance, grandiloquence AND pretentiousness?
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
He sounds fine to me thanks.
Agreed. Those of us who have been around PB long enough have come to realise Charles' family move in rather exalted circles within the City. I take his comments as a simple statement of fact rather than any kind of pretension.
I always take off my cap and stand when reading Charles's posts. I know my place .
I just make sure I'm carefully earthed and holding the right talismans. You need strong occulomancy when in the presence of one of the Elders...
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
If Leave wins it will be off the back of a campaign to end free movement and implement a points based system for all. Anyone on the Leave side who is anticipating finding a way to avoid following through on this is playing with fire.
There will be a negotiation and a solution.
Free movement within the EEA is different to free movement in the EU and would address most of the concerns of the population.
Try explaining to people that this new free movement is different from the old free movement. That's the attitude that will propel Corbyn to Downing Street.
'Wouldn't do anything to risk the continued success of London as a world city'? You just have.
EEA migrants need a firm job offer to come here. They don't get benefits. You can use those two to make low-skilled immigration unattractive. (It's low skilled immigration that people get upset about). You then use the points based system to make sure that scientists, etc can come here with ease.
Back in the real world, once you let the Home Office get involved in who can come in nobody is going to be able to do it with ease. At best you can do it after a slow, painful, error-prone bureaucratic process, at worst the people you get rejected for some stupid reason.
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
Vote Leave should have done some polling before ruling out EEA+EFTA.
WTF. How would 99% of voters grasp a bunch of initials they had never heard of?
I have never had any trouble explaining it to Remainers and undecideds. Most are completely unaware it is possible to retain access to the single market and also have an emergency brake on immigration that can be triggered unilaterally. It could be sold as maintaining free trade whilst opting out of political union.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
If Leave wins it will be off the back of a campaign to end free movement and implement a points based system for all. Anyone on the Leave side who is anticipating finding a way to avoid following through on this is playing with fire.
There will be a negotiation and a solution.
Free movement within the EEA is different to free movement in the EU and would address most of the concerns of the population.
Try explaining to people that this new free movement is different from the old free movement. That's the attitude that will propel Corbyn to Downing Street.
'Wouldn't do anything to risk the continued success of London as a world city'? You just have.
EEA migrants need a firm job offer to come here.
Is that actually true? Where would someone of independent means stand?
If people can cross the border then they can come here and move into an HMO with their compatriots. The sort of 'low skilled immigration' that you say people object would just continue with a slightly greyer status.
“NEVER hate your enemies. It affects your judgement,” warned Michael Corleone. Boris’s decision to back Out infuriated David Cameron, who had always been convinced that Boris was not a Leaver and wasn’t a rival to him. However, he was wrong on both counts. While George Osborne is even more scathing about Boris and his motivations than the PM."
Most of the Spurs players have been excellent. Only Kane has been rather quiet.
He must have run 10 miles. He looks totally knackered.
He's won several clever fouls in the last 15 minutes but he is too deep most of the time to get on the end of the sort of chances he has been finishing all season.
Comments
If so, congrats!
PS I think you're a great poster, but please think how you sound.
I love "could".
To play the game properly that needs to say "could" screw your gran.....
Any suggestions for a decent locale for an autumnal getaway? Areas of historical interest in particular? Money's no object, unless we're talking tens of thousands. I had been thinking Russia when planning for the summer.
Is that the number of goals scored, or fans killed?
'Wouldn't do anything to risk the continued success of London as a world city'? You just have.
*edit* Remain may very well be ahead, but that's not what the quoted numbers mean afaik.
European City breaks can be quite cheap, sometimes cheaper than staying in the UK
And you know what he's damn right...
1-0!!!!
I mean ENGLAND!!!!
Could be Leave-42, Remain-44, and Undecideds-14 or something like that.
Edit: looks like it was just a sub-sample quote. So ignore.
I exaggerate for effect there, but it is true that countries can really suffer really quickly: look at Russia in the 90's. Once a country starts thinking sound finances and growth are optional extras which can be abandoned to vainglories, it finds out pretty quickly they're not. Yes, this is actually the Dredfort....
It's a market solution that stops cheap labour but allows skilled.
People who are upset about immigration aren't upset because of the numbers. They are upset because of the impact on their lives. Address that and you will be fine*
* With the necessary political PR fluff about emergency brakes, etc.
And Sterling finally goes. Hurrah!
If people can cross the border then they can come here and move into an HMO with their compatriots. The sort of 'low skilled immigration' that you say people object would just continue with a slightly greyer status.
“NEVER hate your enemies. It affects your judgement,” warned Michael Corleone.
Boris’s decision to back Out infuriated David Cameron, who had always been convinced that Boris was not a Leaver and wasn’t a rival to him.
However, he was wrong on both counts. While George Osborne is even more scathing about Boris and his motivations than the PM."