According to Opinium Labour voters back Remain 63% to 28% and Tory voters back Remain 46% to 43%. UKIP voters back Leave 93% to 5%, LDs Remain 58% to 22%, Green voters Remain 71% to 25% and SNP voters Remain 47% to 39%. It looks on that basis that the key swing voters are Tory and SNP voters!
Great afternoon/evening leafleting in Ancaster and surrounding villages.
Early evening met came across a BBQ in progress for the football (brave considering the thunderstorms and downpours today). About 20 people, all bar a couple in 20s or 30s. Some had already voted. Asked how they were going to vote/had voted and every single one said Leave.
One said "This is Lincolnshire mate. Everyones going to vote Leave".
An exaggeration I am sure but certainly brightened my afternoon.
Anyone got any thoughts on the impact of Euro 2016 on the vote? If England or Wales make it through the first round I would think that potentially means a lot of pro-Brexit people out of the country on the 23rd.
Anyone got any thoughts on the impact of Euro 2016 on the vote? If England or Wales make it through the first round I would think that potentially means a lot of pro-Brexit people out of the country on the 23rd.
Football fans are quite middle class these days - it's an expensive business. And it's not that many anyway.
Delivering today. I rather liked our leaflet. It was styled to look like a government information pamphlet giving the facts, which is what people have been asking for. Clever, although too thin to easily push through letter boxes, especially if you hear a dog on the inside.
Hand on heart I have never been part of a better organised or more cheerful campaign. Sorry that hass not been evergones experience. Our town has had two Leave leaflets hand delivered to every single road with canvassing being undertaken by many of the local Councillors (Cons).
Lady Emily would have hated delivering my patch (middle class owner occupiers detached and semis) lots of st Georges flags.
The football patriotism and royal celebrations certainly arent doing Leave any harm and the flags are cheerful and help feed a positive patriotic mood.
Petersfield got mentioned as somewhere Remain were putting in an effort. I have strong links with the town and know it well. Leave will take it with a very healthy majority.
I was about to say exactly the same thing about the leaflet. I was thinking about it as I was delivering it. I used to be a relief postie many years ago and memories of how bad that could be had me worried a month or so ago before I started leafletting. But these leaflets make it very easy to both carry and deliver them through letterboxes.
I remember the glory days when Dundee United used to hammer people nil nil like this. That was a seriously impressive half but they need a goal.
It was breezy stuff, but very unfulfilling. I confess to being a rugby fan rather than footy - only watch the Euros/Worlds. Killer instinct slightly lacking.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
A shameful part of me would not mind getting to vote the way I want but not have to deal with the potential consequences, and I do think there will be negative consequences in the short term. Oh well. I'm still 90% sure my nerve will not fail me.
I see the European teams are doing well in the football. Wonder what this does for the Euref?
I would go so far as to say a European team could win it....
I tell you if Remain can use these horrible images from Marseille being stoked by Brexit insular nationalism then this could provide the pivotal moment.
If I was Brexit I wouldn't like my cause to be chanted by these mindless hooligans. But there again, at Brexit's heart lies a dark racism so I doubt very much that they can disassociate themselves from it.
You're right Tyson. We are the British version of the Sturmabteilung. Boris Johnson will deliver a speech at Wembley finishing with "Now People rise up, and let the Storm break loose!"
And then, we'll be coming for you.
You know those situations when you think you're being funny but when you look back on it you realise it actually comes across as a bit psychotic?...
I enjoy answering paranoia with absurd hyperbole.
Did you get my latest Pm! I sent u my address now.
Off Topic - what do people on here think of this Philip Green thing? I know we have to reserve judgement on these things, but if he doesn't show up to face that Select Committee next week it will be a disgrace.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
I see the European teams are doing well in the football. Wonder what this does for the Euref?
I would go so far as to say a European team could win it....
I tell you if Remain can use these horrible images from Marseille being stoked by Brexit insular nationalism then this could provide the pivotal moment.
If I was Brexit I wouldn't like my cause to be chanted by these mindless hooligans. But there again, at Brexit's heart lies a dark racism so I doubt very much that they can disassociate themselves from it.
You're right Tyson. We are the British version of the Sturmabteilung. Boris Johnson will deliver a speech at Wembley finishing with "Now People rise up, and let the Storm break loose!"
And then, we'll be coming for you.
You know those situations when you think you're being funny but when you look back on it you realise it actually comes across as a bit psychotic?...
Don't be too hard on yourself, not all your posts are like that.
I think the traditional response to that rejoinder is "...and so's your mum!". Ah, primary school banter,...
I don't expect points for originality; in your case it just happened to be apposite.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
I have this vision of every airliner in the world plummeting from the sky the moment Brexit is announced. London has been a draw for tourists since the year dot. What's going to change? It's consistently in the top 3 most popular global tourist destinations....I don't get the issue.
I am increasingly blasé about the result, as ultimately Britain will now chart a firm course to associate member status whether that is inside or outside the EU, formally speaking. Leave is unlikely to get majority they need to take us further from Europe than the EEA/EFTA, but will do well enough to make euroscepticism an important issue on the doorstep.
Off Topic - what do people on here think of this Philip Green thing? I know we have to reserve judgement on these things, but if he doesn't show up to face that Select Committee next week it will be a disgrace.
It's probably time for the Leave campaign to make a clear contrast between Frank Field (Leave) and Philip Green (Remain).
Off Topic - what do people on here think of this Philip Green thing? I know we have to reserve judgement on these things, but if he doesn't show up to face that Select Committee next week it will be a disgrace.
You want to discuss something other than the referendum?
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Why would it be Johnson/Gove? Would Tory MPs and activists necessarily go for a Brexiter? Surely the debate will be over? A steady hand like Teresa May who's kept her head down might be just the (gin and) tonic.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
I have this vision of every airliner in the world plummeting from the sky the moment Brexit is announced. London has been a draw for tourists since the year dot. What's going to change? It's consistently in the top 3 most popular global tourist destinations....I don't get the issue.
Paris is also one of the top tourist destinations but doesn't have the same draw of people from around the world who want to make their fortune. There's no future in being a museum city.
Not saying you should bank on it, but interesting how Brexit many parts seem to be.
I think there is a lot of danger for the Labour party right now in parts of the north and the valleys.Just look what happened to Scotland. They are lucky UKIP is currently led by Farage but this could all change post-referendum.
Off Topic - what do people on here think of this Philip Green thing? I know we have to reserve judgement on these things, but if he doesn't show up to face that Select Committee next week it will be a disgrace.
It's probably time for the Leave campaign to make a clear contrast between Frank Field (Leave) and Philip Green (Remain).
I'd suggest that Frank Field is having a good referendum.
...are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?...
No. You're just going to take London out of one its largest financial markets, disrupt the inflow of cheap workers which underpin rapid construction, institute an immigration system that's command planning at its finest, and crash the currency. Simultaneously. Why would you possibly think that?
Parenthetically, do you know why Chernobyl went boom? They decided to see what would happen if they raised the temperature of the core without the safety systems in place. And then they found out...
Off Topic - what do people on here think of this Philip Green thing? I know we have to reserve judgement on these things, but if he doesn't show up to face that Select Committee next week it will be a disgrace.
I think he's right that he and others can be subjected to trial by media and that committee's can seemingly prejudging them, but my general view of these things is tough and you have to accept that as part of the process. If Parliament summons you, I think you should definitely go and give a good accounting of your self, but don't whinge too much. Obviously he cannot think the chair will resign, but he should not use that as an excuse not to go.
I felt the same with Mike Ashley calling a committee a joke. We all talk crap about our MPs, but I think parliament and its processes deserve more respect when it comes to official interactions, or at least the appearance of it - by all means show what you think when you are there.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Cameron will probably resign. Gove won't take over, and judging by Tory members here Boris won't either. And no other out and out Leaver is senior enough to win the Tory leadership.
Glad you were delivering too Richard. I really enjoy delivering and think being a postie must be an enjoyable job on the whole. Love looking at others gardens too. Only seen one IN poster and that was when I was in London last week. A few Leave posters in my patch and several improvised and Daily Express window sticker efforts. Looking good for Leave so much better than I would ever have dreamt. We are out one way or another now. Just a question of whether it is now or a bit later. Lets get it out the way and move on.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Cameron will probably resign. Gove won't take over, and judging by Tory members here Boris won't either. And no other out and out Leaver is senior enough to win the Tory leadership.
If Leave wins and Gove does not run Tory members will vote for Boris
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Boris Johnson's time as mayor is not wholly disconnected from that outcome Sean.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Why would it be Johnson/Gove? Would Tory MPs and activists necessarily go for a Brexiter? Surely the debate will be over? A steady hand like Teresa May who's kept her head down might be just the (gin and) tonic.
Because they'll have been the ones who've just won an election, and when somebody says "you and whose army" they can actually point to the X million votes they just got to implement a prospectus which was widely advertised but which for some reason known only to God everybody on PB seems to be ignoring.
Off Topic - what do people on here think of this Philip Green thing? I know we have to reserve judgement on these things, but if he doesn't show up to face that Select Committee next week it will be a disgrace.
I think he's right that he and others can be subjected to trial by media and that committee's can seemingly prejudging them, but my general view of these things is tough and you have to accept that as part of the process. If Parliament summons you, I think you should definitely go and give a good accounting of your self, but don't whinge too much. Obviously he cannot think the chair will resign, but he should not use that as an excuse not to go.
I felt the same with Mike Ashley calling a committee a joke. We all talk crap about our MPs, but I think parliament and its processes deserve more respect when it comes to official interactions, or at least the appearance of it - by all means show what you think when you are there.
These committees can grand stand a bit but after what came out last week I'd feel short changed not to hear Green's version of events.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
Not saying you should bank on it, but interesting how Brexit many parts seem to be.
I think there is a lot of danger for the Labour party right now in parts of the north and the valleys.Just look what happened to Scotland. They are lucky UKIP is currently led by Farage but this could all change post-referendum.
Yes. The problem is that Labour MPs just don't like Labour voters.
Off Topic - what do people on here think of this Philip Green thing? I know we have to reserve judgement on these things, but if he doesn't show up to face that Select Committee next week it will be a disgrace.
I think he's right that he and others can be subjected to trial by media and that committee's can seemingly prejudging them, but my general view of these things is tough and you have to accept that as part of the process. If Parliament summons you, I think you should definitely go and give a good accounting of your self, but don't whinge too much. Obviously he cannot think the chair will resign, but he should not use that as an excuse not to go.
I felt the same with Mike Ashley calling a committee a joke. We all talk crap about our MPs, but I think parliament and its processes deserve more respect when it comes to official interactions, or at least the appearance of it - by all means show what you think when you are there.
These committees can grand stand a bit but after what came out last week I'd feel short changed not to hear Green's version of events.
Indeed, and complaining of the bias of the chair is no excuse not to give it.
Glad you were delivering too Richard. I really enjoy delivering and think being a postie must be an enjoyable job on the whole. Love looking at others gardens too. Only seen one IN poster and that was when I was in London last week. A few Leave posters in my patch and several improvised and Daily Express window sticker efforts. Looking good for Leave so much better than I would ever have dreamt. We are out one way or another now. Just a question of whether it is now or a bit later. Lets get it out the way and move on.
I'm the opposite; canvassing is much more fun! You have to think on your feet, it's much of a team activity and you get to keep score!
I've done almost 5 hours today. I don't think Remain will do as well in London as expected; Islington and Camden are but two boroughs out of 32.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
If Leave wins it will be off the back of a campaign to end free movement and implement a points based system for all. Anyone on the Leave side who is anticipating finding a way to avoid following through on this is playing with fire.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
...are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?...
No. You're just going to take London out of one its largest financial markets, disrupt the inflow of cheap workers which underpin rapid construction, institute an immigration system that's command planning at its finest, and crash the currency. Simultaneously. Why would you possibly think that?
Parenthetically, do you know why Chernobyl went boom? They decided to see what would happen if they raised the temperature of the core without the safety systems in place. And then they found out...
Whoa. Command planning! Is that not the EU pretty much summed up? The command planning of an entire continent, largely just for the sake of it?
...are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?...
No. You're just going to take London out of one its largest financial markets, disrupt the inflow of cheap workers which underpin rapid construction, institute an immigration system that's command planning at its finest, and crash the currency. Simultaneously. Why would you possibly think that?
Parenthetically, do you know why Chernobyl went boom? They decided to see what would happen if they raised the temperature of the core without the safety systems in place. And then they found out...
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Boris Johnson's time as mayor is not wholly disconnected from that outcome Sean.
The Boris Johnson who called for an amnesty for illegal immigrants and said he was basically pro-immigration?
...are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?...
No. You're just going to take London out of one its largest financial markets, disrupt the inflow of cheap workers which underpin rapid construction, institute an immigration system that's command planning at its finest, and crash the currency. Simultaneously. Why would you possibly think that?
Parenthetically, do you know why Chernobyl went boom? They decided to see what would happen if they raised the temperature of the core without the safety systems in place. And then they found out...
That's not really true. The conditions laid down for the test weren't in place and they went ahead anyway.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
I have a massive horn for Andrea Leadsom now.
Would she stand? if so she'd have a real chance.
I don't know. I'm not sure how popular she is in the parliamentary party. I think she'd win a members ballot.
I really hope so. I agree with OGH that's she's like Thatcher with the self-confidence. I'd also add, though, she comes across as very human and warm.
In Scotland I saw a Vote Remain poster in Edinburgh yesterday. That is the only one for either side I have seen. Neither side had any presence in Dundee City centre today. You really have to look hard for any evidence at all that this referendum is happening up here.
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
I have a massive horn for Andrea Leadsom now.
Speaking of massive horns, you sometimes have a nice surprise when canvassing as the door opens...
...are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?...
No. You're just going to take London out of one its largest financial markets, disrupt the inflow of cheap workers which underpin rapid construction, institute an immigration system that's command planning at its finest, and crash the currency. Simultaneously. Why would you possibly think that?
Parenthetically, do you know why Chernobyl went boom? They decided to see what would happen if they raised the temperature of the core without the safety systems in place. And then they found out...
I'll defer to Charles on the City, but what you're saying makes absolutely no sense.
If the currency crashes, that makes the UK cheaper to visit, surely? I also understand it's possible to visit a country, without actually immigrating. Finally, what terrible fate is befalling the construction workers of London that requires an endless inflow of new ones, cheap or not? Do they finish a skyscraper, pat each other on the back and then hurl them from the pinnacle?
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
I have a massive horn for Andrea Leadsom now.
Speaking of massive horns, you sometimes have a nice surprise when canvassing as the door opens...
SeanT, take note
Is that a nice surprise for you, or for the canvassee?!
I hear that the Treasury models their forecasts on a PC - I am really amazed by this - what is the point of guessing when you can take data from RBS and LLoyds and big data it.
...are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?...
No. You're just going to take London out of one its largest financial markets, disrupt the inflow of cheap workers which underpin rapid construction, institute an immigration system that's command planning at its finest, and crash the currency. Simultaneously. Why would you possibly think that?
Parenthetically, do you know why Chernobyl went boom? They decided to see what would happen if they raised the temperature of the core without the safety systems in place. And then they found out...
That's not really true. The conditions laid down for the test weren't in place and they went ahead anyway.
For some sick reason the idea that the worst nuclear disaster in Europe was down to someone saying something like:
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Why would it be Johnson/Gove? Would Tory MPs and activists necessarily go for a Brexiter? Surely the debate will be over? A steady hand like Teresa May who's kept her head down might be just the (gin and) tonic.
Because they'll have been the ones who've just won an election
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election.
In Scotland I saw a Vote Remain poster in Edinburgh yesterday. That is the only one for either side I have seen. Neither side had any presence in Dundee City centre today. You really have to look hard for any evidence at all that this referendum is happening up here.
Corbyn was in Aberdeen today with Remain but understandly Scotland is pretty referendumed out
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU
No. I've said repeatedly on here (well, at least twice) that a LEAVE vote should be followed by an Article 50 invocation ASAP, to avoid administrative chaos.
I think that's a somewhat naive interpretation. Vote LEAVE are running on a very clear prospectus: Leave EU, leave EEA, institute a points-based system, renegotiate relationships ad novum with every other country. If LEAVE win then that's a mandate for same.
That is hilarious. However Did Lloyd George managed to introduce them in 1911 without the EU and Atlee introduce the NHS in 1948 without a European superstate.
Anyway, the pensioners have all voted leave by post already so too late Dave
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
I have a massive horn for Andrea Leadsom now.
Speaking of massive horns, you sometimes have a nice surprise when canvassing as the door opens...
SeanT, take note
Is that a nice surprise for you, or for the canvassee?!
Definitely me in this case. I had a very handsome chap answer today; the only problem is that it then becomes impossible to remember your patter...
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
Sean, it's difficult to know how to phrase this without coming across like a pretentious tosser, so bear with me
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
As TSE said, that's due to Thatcher not the EU.
Face up. This is not the time to go wobbly.
Everything is going to be ok.
I'M VOTING LEAVE
Nothing will now dissuade me. I've made a choice on the grounds of freedom, democracy and long term prosperity. The first two are inarguable, so even if someone persuaded me on the third, I would still vote LEAVE. As my lunch friends said today "sometimes it's not all about money". And these were REMAINERS.
All I'm doing is saying there are big risks on both sides, and today I felt the risk of a LEAVE vote.
Life is risky, you're probably the poster child for the vagaries of fortune.
One of the great disappointments of this campaign is that we really haven't talked about the range of risks, possible mitigations and so forth. Both sides have just assumed we're all cretins and hooted insults at each other. The only discernible difference is that one side asserts that I'm a racist cretin.
Just had a very nice boozy, birthday lunch in Soho with about 40 people, mostly middle aged London professionals, but some others, too - a fireman, for instance.
Consensus, they are voting REMAIN - but they think LEAVE will now win. And they understand why ("it's not just about money"). More were LEAVERS than I expected.
As a LEAVER I was quite heartened as I left, but then I walked home through a very prosperous, happy London, full of foreigners spending money in our bars, restaurants, shops and theatres and I got a sudden shiver of doubt: are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?
I'm still LEAVE, I still think REMAIN will win, and I am fearful of both outcomes, to be honest.
Singapore seems to work rather well. The capital will be fine; no other European city comes close.
There I agree, London is now the greatest city in Europe by a distance. Paris is not playing in the same league, Berlin is a village in comparison. Even New York struggles to match London.
This is a revolution from when I first arrived in a kind-of-grand, but obviously tired, faded, post imperial city, with a declining population, in 1981.
Are we about to fuck this up?
I am LEAVE, but I have significant concerns.
I had lunch at King's Cross/St. Pancras yesterday, an area which was distinctly seedy last time I was there around 5 - 6 years ago. What a transformation! - I just felt so proud at what has been achieved over such a comparatively short period. Even the tube stations these days are so modern, so clean, so impressive, God this is a great city and no mistake!
In Scotland I saw a Vote Remain poster in Edinburgh yesterday. That is the only one for either side I have seen. Neither side had any presence in Dundee City centre today. You really have to look hard for any evidence at all that this referendum is happening up here.
Corbyn was in Aberdeen today with Remain but understandly Scotland is pretty referendumed out
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Why would it be Johnson/Gove? Would Tory MPs and activists necessarily go for a Brexiter? Surely the debate will be over? A steady hand like Teresa May who's kept her head down might be just the (gin and) tonic.
Because they'll have been the ones who've just won an election
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election.
It's not an election.
It's just a Thursday in the UK when the UK electorate will select between options presented to them by distinct groups by placing a cross in a box on a slip of paper, the results of which will shape the makeup of the Government in Whitehall and the Parliament in Westminster, and be discussed in an overnight BBC program presented by David Dimbleby starting at 10pm.
...are we about to destroy this money-making machine, that is London?...
No. You're just going to take London out of one its largest financial markets, disrupt the inflow of cheap workers which underpin rapid construction, institute an immigration system that's command planning at its finest, and crash the currency. Simultaneously. Why would you possibly think that?
Parenthetically, do you know why Chernobyl went boom? They decided to see what would happen if they raised the temperature of the core without the safety systems in place. And then they found out...
You left out WW3 and the plague of frogs or have those fears been dropped?
How about higher wages, lower prices, more affordable housing, less crowded schools, easier GP & NHS access?
Apparently I do need to keep reminding people that this isn't an election, so Leave won't be running the country if they win.
If LEAVE wins, Cameron will fall and Gove/Johnson/somebody will be PM with a mandate to remove us from the EU and EEA (which Vote Leave have explicitly renounced) and institute an points-based immigration system.
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
Assuming Cameron goes, then the next PM will be whoever can command a majority of the house. Likely to be a Conservative but not necessarily a Leaver - personally I think it will be May.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
If Leave wins it will be off the back of a campaign to end free movement and implement a points based system for all. Anyone on the Leave side who is anticipating finding a way to avoid following through on this is playing with fire.
There will be a negotiation and a solution.
Free movement within the EEA is different to free movement in the EU and would address most of the concerns of the population.
Looks like this is the poll in The Telegraph, says Leave on 42, doesn't give a Remain figure
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
Comments
Many modern Con supporters are the type who are well off, but not securely so, and for whom project fear will be really hitting home.
Many of the ideologically conservative voters will have already jumped ship.
Early evening met came across a BBQ in progress for the football (brave considering the thunderstorms and downpours today). About 20 people, all bar a couple in 20s or 30s. Some had already voted. Asked how they were going to vote/had voted and every single one said Leave.
One said "This is Lincolnshire mate. Everyones going to vote Leave".
An exaggeration I am sure but certainly brightened my afternoon.
Who makes the fatal mistake?
Ever closer Union? Don't Risk It.
Unlimited immigration? Don't Risk It.
etc etc etc......
https://twitter.com/ScotsVoteLeave/status/741642158130794496
I have difficulty separating that from "running the country"
And the fact that not every Remainer is a Eurofanatic.
Are you mad?
https://twitter.com/chrisg0000/status/741648788331331584
The EU is one big fat risk, but they are being allowed to paint it as somehow the status quo.
An improved exchange rate for the euro equals flood of visitors splashing the cash.
Parenthetically, do you know why Chernobyl went boom? They decided to see what would happen if they raised the temperature of the core without the safety systems in place. And then they found out...
I felt the same with Mike Ashley calling a committee a joke. We all talk crap about our MPs, but I think parliament and its processes deserve more respect when it comes to official interactions, or at least the appearance of it - by all means show what you think when you are there.
Out of work ?
Cheer up, so's David Cameron !
Go on risk it, you know you want to.
I can't believe it's come to this.... I am seriously laughing my arse off.
https://twitter.com/CrusadeFan/status/741719941494280192
Out of work ?
Cheer up, so's Nigel Farage !
Go on risk it, you know you want to.
But are you objecting to the fact that the next PM should implement what the people voted for - which is to leave the EU. There's been no other vote on any other policy.
I've done almost 5 hours today. I don't think Remain will do as well in London as expected; Islington and Camden are but two boroughs out of 32.
Face up. This is not the time to go wobbly.
Everything is going to be ok.
I really hope so. I agree with OGH that's she's like Thatcher with the self-confidence. I'd also add, though, she comes across as very human and warm.
SeanT, take note
If the currency crashes, that makes the UK cheaper to visit, surely? I also understand it's possible to visit a country, without actually immigrating. Finally, what terrible fate is befalling the construction workers of London that requires an endless inflow of new ones, cheap or not? Do they finish a skyscraper, pat each other on the back and then hurl them from the pinnacle?
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/high-profile-gop-donor-meg-whitman-support-hillary/story?id=39774523
"What happens if I push this"
Amuses me.
https://twitter.com/davidmartinmep/status/741615676838793216
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/741723800987918336
Anyway, the pensioners have all voted leave by post already so too late Dave
My family has a fairly unique relationship with London - it represents one of the three pillars that the entire edifice rests (the others being Dawlish and Gasper). Our entire sense of being and function in life is to serve London, its people and its community (as one of my cousins put it in the 1920s 'God has been good to our family in that we have been asked to serve in a role which is not unpleasant and where we can be of quiet assistance to people').
We would do nothing to risk the continued success of London as a world city. And yet all of the partners have now voted for Leave, as have most of the rest of the family (it's only the French branch that has been grumpy).
London will survive and London will flourish. It always does, and always will. And we will still be there to do our bit.
that should go down well
One of the great disappointments of this campaign is that we really haven't talked about the range of risks, possible mitigations and so forth. Both sides have just assumed we're all cretins and hooted insults at each other. The only discernible difference is that one side asserts that I'm a racist cretin.
I predicted this as well. But, too little, too late, I think.
We all know those are areas of government choice. This will backfire spectacularly. Especially given Cameron's current credibility.
That is how heartless Remain are?
It's just a Thursday in the UK when the UK electorate will select between options presented to them by distinct groups by placing a cross in a box on a slip of paper, the results of which will shape the makeup of the Government in Whitehall and the Parliament in Westminster, and be discussed in an overnight BBC program presented by David Dimbleby starting at 10pm.
Yeah, good luck with that one Dave...
How about higher wages, lower prices, more affordable housing, less crowded schools, easier GP & NHS access?
Free movement within the EEA is different to free movement in the EU and would address most of the concerns of the population.
British voters have voiced their overwhelming support for a “Norway-style” arrangement in the event of a decision to leave the European Union that would ensure that the UK could retain its access to the single market.
A new poll, commissioned by the Adam Smith Institute think tank has revealed that support for a deal along the lines of the Nordic country’s relationship with the continental bloc outweighs opposition by two-to-one.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/11/uk-voters-back-norway-style-brexit-poll-reveals/