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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB/Polling Matters TV Show: Looking at The White House

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  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Q. Why did the Europhiles cross the road?

    A. Because Brussels told them to!

    Or Cameron ;-)
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    hunchman said:

    hunchman said:

    Hunchman, I told you the other night to stop talking about Finchley Road, your posts are going to get Mike into trouble.

    That instruction is still in force.

    I'm happy for any of the companies to take me to court that I am alleging of fraud, theft and money laundering. They won't because my sources and myself have access to forensic documents that would hold up in a court of law. So the risk is with me, not with Mike thank you very much. And it is a risk that I'm delighted to take in order to get the vile corrupt $cum exposed over this with all the damage that they are doing to millions and millions of peoples innocent lives, not just in the UK but around the world.
    Nope, they'll go after Mike.

    If you want to discuss it, it won't be on PB.
    I'm responsible for what I write. You can look at the allegations backed up with hard forensic evidence over the internet and you can also check that none of us are being brought to the courts to defend ourselves. I would suggest that is because those we are accusing are now wetting their panties in a state of panic over this getting into the mainstream. And when it does get into the mainstream, which is a matter of time, but not it, don't say I didn't tell you so.
    Come on Hunchman be sensible. TSE is bending over backwards not to ban you and is showing a lot more tolerance than many moderators would do on other sites.

    The bottom line is you could have the most copper bottomed, best case in the world for your claims and Mike still couldn't afford to have them published here because he simply can't afford to be dragged through the courts. None of us could afford that in his position. So if you want to have your claims out there then you really need to do what has already been suggested and have your own site. That way the only person you are risking is yourself. It is simply not fair to load this onto Mike.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. -
    No-one in England likes her, and nor do they like hearing a Scottish accent telling them what to do. Don't shoot me: I'm not saying that's good, it's just the case. She is pretty much loathed south of the border.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150

    Researching a idea for a new show? Top vino?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3631727/Top-Gear-host-Chris-Evans-hits-skids-spotted-drinking-street-just-days-loses-audience-episode-two.html

    For the record, it is a really unfair headline by Mail...

    They are making a reputation for unfair headlines
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554

    Researching a idea for a new show? Top vino?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3631727/Top-Gear-host-Chris-Evans-hits-skids-spotted-drinking-street-just-days-loses-audience-episode-two.html

    For the record, it is a really unfair headline by Mail...

    They are making a reputation for unfair headlines
    I know, they might get tarred with a bad brush if they aren't careful ;-)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170

    Researching a idea for a new show? Top vino?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3631727/Top-Gear-host-Chris-Evans-hits-skids-spotted-drinking-street-just-days-loses-audience-episode-two.html

    For the record, it is a really unfair headline by Mail...

    Classy bums drink out of wine glasses. We must be missing some context....
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Goodness, reading through this thread.....this referendum has officially entered the "batshit crazy" realm.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    Not really sure why the Times are suddenly running with the JCB story now. Bamford has been solidly for Leave since long before the campaign started.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,432
    Danny565 said:

    Goodness, reading through this thread.....this referendum has officially entered the "batshit crazy" realm.

    Another two weeks to go.

    We're all going to be so miserable when it is over.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,628
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    Tin foil on standby :)
    I know, but how does she go from writing very pro-Leave articles to spouting Remain's tag lines on Twitter, inside three days?
    If it was planned, do you think she would have actually done that?
    A wierd one. She's managed a defection in such a way that she just looks silly and hypocritical. Why would someone change their mind on a referendum question based on a falling out with the campaign? If anyone from Remain tries to quote her, there's plenty of other quotes from her on the other side to come back, don't understand what she's up to.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    Not really sure why the Times are suddenly running with the JCB story now. Bamford has been solidly for Leave since long before the campaign started.
    He just wrote to all JCB employees explaining why he was Leave. But I'm far from convinced it's headline worthy.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    Tin foil on standby :)
    I know, but how does she go from writing very pro-Leave articles to spouting Remain's tag lines on Twitter, inside three days?
    If it was planned, do you think she would have actually done that?
    A wierd one. She's managed a defection in such a way that she just looks silly and hypocritical. Why would someone change their mind on a referendum question based on a falling out with the campaign? If anyone from Remain tries to quote her, there's plenty of other quotes from her on the other side to come back, don't understand what she's up to.
    She changed her mind? She doesn't seem like the kind of person who would care if the Remain campaign could user her quotes or not.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    You watch BBC and Sky play it every half hour, all day tomorrow, and then say you have never heard of her. This is going to dominate the news tomorrow culminating with the ITV debate with Sturgeon v Boris. You will have heard about her then
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170

    Danny565 said:

    Goodness, reading through this thread.....this referendum has officially entered the "batshit crazy" realm.

    Another two weeks to go.

    We're all going to be so miserable when it is over.
    Perfect time for the unveiling of the magnum opus AV thread which has been gestating for several years now? :o
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,628
    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    The JCB letter to staff was very good, I think was posted my Ms Plato on the last thread.

    Sturgeon could be the Leave campaign's secret weapon if she gets the tone wrong and forgets that 90% of the audience are not Scottish.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    When do we next get to inspect JackW's ARSE, btw?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Estobar said:

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. -
    No-one in England likes her, and nor do they like hearing a Scottish accent telling them what to do. Don't shoot me: I'm not saying that's good, it's just the case. She is pretty much loathed south of the border.
    I am married to a Scot for 52 years and making crass observations about accent is just silly. You will be surprised how many on the left like her and it is the left voters turning out that will see remain win. This is a dangerous debate for Boris being the only male on the panel
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    edited June 2016
    Danny565 said:

    When do we next get to inspect JackW's ARSE, btw?

    JackW is currently under the weather. I haven't heard an update recently, although other PBers may know otherwise?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,414

    Danny565 said:

    Goodness, reading through this thread.....this referendum has officially entered the "batshit crazy" realm.

    Another two weeks to go.

    We're all going to be so miserable when it is over.
    ONLY 14 DAYS TO SAVE THE E.U. PROJECT!
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    It's unbelievable that so many are saying on here that they've never heard of Dr Wollaston - Chairman of the Health Select Committee- at a time when there's been unprecedented political health news because of the government's running down of the NHS. They can't take much of an interest in politics then.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    edited June 2016

    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    You watch BBC and Sky play it every half hour, all day tomorrow, and then say you have never heard of her. This is going to dominate the news tomorrow culminating with the ITV debate with Sturgeon v Boris. You will have heard about her then
    Nah. She's a nobody. Never ever heard of her. It's not news. Nor is Lord Bamford.

    And no-one watches Sky News I'm afraid.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    William Bagley ‏@billy_bagman
    @MichaelPDeacon Westminster rumours that Jeremy Corbyn is to defect to remain
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Chris_A said:

    It's unbelievable that so many are saying on here that they've never heard of Dr Wollaston - Chairman of the Health Select Committee- at a time when there's been unprecedented political health news because of the government's running down of the NHS. They can't take much of an interest in politics then.

    I think some have heard of her but are trying to say in their own way she is a nobody to try to diminish the impact of her defection
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Nah, just expect hear the words Tory, Tory, Tory and Austerity with a Glasgow accent from Sturgeon as we go through the usual SNP tribal bingo card attacking the Conservatives. Anyone else remember a political campaign where there were so many reluctant political bedfellows in both camps more keen on attacking each other than their opponents?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,628
    Really good article from Kate Hoey on why the working class left should vote to Leave, and the disconnect between the middle class Labour elite and their traditional support.

    http://heatst.com/uk/kate-hoey-the-left-wing-case-for-brexit/

    People assume that the Left supports the EU.

    It doesn’t.

    The middle-classes who have colonised the Left support the EU not because they are the Left, but because they aren’t.

    They support it because they are middle class. No wonder they support it – it’s a middle class autocracy.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    edited June 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Really good article from Kate Hoey on why the working class left should vote to Leave, and the disconnect between the middle class Labour elite and their traditional support.

    http://heatst.com/uk/kate-hoey-the-left-wing-case-for-brexit/

    People assume that the Left supports the EU.

    It doesn’t.

    The middle-classes who have colonised the Left support the EU not because they are the Left, but because they aren’t.

    They support it because they are middle class. No wonder they support it – it’s a middle class autocracy.

    Agree,Most of PB labour proves her point.

    I would vote for Kate Hoey.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    Chris_A said:

    Chairman of the Health Select Committee-

    Do you really think normal people outside of Westminster and a selection of pb forum members have the faintest clue that there's something called a Health Select Committee? Seriously?

    And to whoever posted about the billions going out of the UK, that kind of argument means nothing to anyone ordinary. We kind of know that billionaires and corporations move money around.

    What matters is what's on our doorstep, how things affect us here locally. Will our mortgage go up? Will crime rise with more migrants? Will they nick our jobs?

    Don't shoot me, I'm just saying what people think.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Estobar said:

    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    You watch BBC and Sky play it every half hour, all day tomorrow, and then say you have never heard of her. This is going to dominate the news tomorrow culminating with the ITV debate with Sturgeon v Boris. You will have heard about her then
    Nah. She's a nobody. Never ever heard of her. It's not news. Nor is Lord Bamford.

    And no-one watches Sky News I'm afraid.
    Well they do watch one of BBC, Sky, ITV news for their news and it will be on all day tomorrow and then tomorrows big debate will be featured across the news channels all friday. You may want to be in denial the Country will be well aware of who she is by tomorrow evening
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
    Trust me, Nicola Sturgeon isn't the most accomplished politician in the UK, but rather the most over rated. You should follow her weekly performance at First Ministers Questions, she really isn't that good.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    fitalass said:

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
    Trust me, Nicola Sturgeon isn't the most accomplished politician in the UK, but rather the most over rated. You should follow her weekly performance at First Ministers Questions, she really isn't that good.
    A fair question then, who is the most accomplished (and recognised) UK politician
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Been no leaks yet (not that ive seen) regarding this weekends Birthday Honours list
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    edited June 2016
    fitalass said:

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
    Trust me, Nicola Sturgeon isn't the most accomplished politician in the UK, but rather the most over rated. You should follow her weekly performance at First Ministers Questions, she really isn't that good.
    And despite some north Welsh protestations to the contrary on here, much of England - the southern half at least - can't abide the woman. That was made pretty clear in the lead-up to, and in the result of, last year's GE.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    RobD said:

    Danny565 said:

    When do we next get to inspect JackW's ARSE, btw?

    JackW is currently under the weather. I haven't heard an update recently, although other PBers may know otherwise?
    I am very sorry to hear this news, and I wish JackW a very speedy recovery.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    edited June 2016

    Estobar said:

    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    You watch BBC and Sky play it every half hour, all day tomorrow, and then say you have never heard of her. This is going to dominate the news tomorrow culminating with the ITV debate with Sturgeon v Boris. You will have heard about her then
    Nah. She's a nobody. Never ever heard of her. It's not news. Nor is Lord Bamford.

    And no-one watches Sky News I'm afraid.
    Well they do watch one of BBC, Sky, ITV news for their news and it will be on all day tomorrow and then tomorrows big debate will be featured across the news channels all friday. You may want to be in denial the Country will be well aware of who she is by tomorrow evening
    Lol.

    It hasn't even made it onto tomorrow's fronts. In fact, the only switch is the Telegraph's lead about John Nott which goes the other way http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/08/margaret-thatchers-defence-secretary-sir-john-nott-suspends-tory/

    No-one's ever heard of Sarah Woollastone.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    marke09 said:

    Been no leaks yet (not that ive seen) regarding this weekends Birthday Honours list

    Knighthood for Beckham maybe
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    edited June 2016
    marke09 said:

    Been no leaks yet (not that ive seen) regarding this weekends Birthday Honours list

    A gong for OGH surely? And probably JohnO's long awaited peerage as the ultimate golden parachute. A dukedom, no doubt.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Nicola Sturgeon is a person who has spent her political life arguing that Scotland should be independent. How on earth can she then stand up and suggest the UK should not?

  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917

    marke09 said:

    Been no leaks yet (not that ive seen) regarding this weekends Birthday Honours list

    Knighthood for Beckham maybe
    Surely one of the Euro 96 lot, it is the 20th anniversary this year and has been receiving a lot of coverage.

    Sir El Tel?!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,414
    RobD said:

    marke09 said:

    Been no leaks yet (not that ive seen) regarding this weekends Birthday Honours list

    A gong for OGH surely? And probably JohnO's long awaited peerage as the ultimate golden parachute. A dukedom, no doubt.
    Mike is in line for an OGH, surely :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,862
    edited June 2016
    Estobar said:

    Chris_A said:

    Chairman of the Health Select Committee-

    Do you really think normal people outside of Westminster and a selection of pb forum members have the faintest clue that there's something called a Health Select Committee? Seriously?

    And to whoever posted about the billions going out of the UK, that kind of argument means nothing to anyone ordinary. We kind of know that billionaires and corporations move money around.

    What matters is what's on our doorstep, how things affect us here locally. Will our mortgage go up? Will crime rise with more migrants? Will they nick our jobs?

    Don't shoot me, I'm just saying what people think.
    Most people don't know who's in the cabinet either. I don't think the Wollaston defection will have a massive impact, but knowing who she is beforehand is not what may make it significant, if it is to be so. It will be if her reasoning strikes a chord, which is then backed up by how she is introduced into their consciousness, as not a party hack and in a prominent position. If the argument doesn't hit home, it won't matter who she is or if she is known.

    And it might be in the day afters papers, we'll see. That would indicate I think it has hit home. If it doesn't last the day, it flopped. But her lack of renown hardly matters either way. You think Normal people know Kate hoey, Dominic raab, even fallon, Javid etc?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Estobar said:

    Estobar said:

    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    You watch BBC and Sky play it every half hour, all day tomorrow, and then say you have never heard of her. This is going to dominate the news tomorrow culminating with the ITV debate with Sturgeon v Boris. You will have heard about her then
    Nah. She's a nobody. Never ever heard of her. It's not news. Nor is Lord Bamford.

    And no-one watches Sky News I'm afraid.
    Well they do watch one of BBC, Sky, ITV news for their news and it will be on all day tomorrow and then tomorrows big debate will be featured across the news channels all friday. You may want to be in denial the Country will be well aware of who she is by tomorrow evening
    Lol.

    It hasn't even made it onto tomorrow's fronts. In fact, the only switch is the Telegraph's lead about John Nott which goes the other way http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/08/margaret-thatchers-defence-secretary-sir-john-nott-suspends-tory/

    No-one's ever heard of Sarah Woollastone.
    It was only featuring on the media from about 11.00 and was too late for the front pages many of whom are Brexit anyway. It is the broadcast media tomorrow that will put it front and centre of the news. As for John Knott in news terms a non story
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    edited June 2016

    twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/740674323783004160

    Brilliant news!!
    Evening scrapheap! How are you killing time now the iPlayer has taken down the recording of the blessed event? :D
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited June 2016
    Chris_A said:

    It's unbelievable that so many are saying on here that they've never heard of Dr Wollaston - Chairman of the Health Select Committee- at a time when there's been unprecedented political health news because of the government's running down of the NHS. They can't take much of an interest in politics then.

    PB is hardly reflective of mainstream society, hence the lack of wider awareness, and some come here for gambling so may not follow everything.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    chestnut said:

    Nicola Sturgeon is a person who has spent her political life arguing that Scotland should be independent. How on earth can she then stand up and suggest the UK should not?

    Quite.

    I think this is a very dangerous moment for Remain, if anyone actually watches.

    By the way, to whoever commented about the accent thing, I wasn't saying it's a good thing. Merely that the moment she opens her mouth and starts telling the English how they should vote is going to lose Remain more votes south of the border.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,414
    Estobar said:

    chestnut said:

    Nicola Sturgeon is a person who has spent her political life arguing that Scotland should be independent. How on earth can she then stand up and suggest the UK should not?

    Quite.

    I think this is a very dangerous moment for Remain, if anyone actually watches.

    By the way, to whoever commented about the accent thing, I wasn't saying it's a good thing. Merely that the moment she opens her mouth and starts telling the English how they should vote is going to lose Remain more votes south of the border.
    Nicola Sturgeon back in 1992:

    http://www.stvfootagesales.tv/record/309
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Estobar said:

    chestnut said:

    Nicola Sturgeon is a person who has spent her political life arguing that Scotland should be independent. How on earth can she then stand up and suggest the UK should not?

    Quite.

    I think this is a very dangerous moment for Remain, if anyone actually watches.

    By the way, to whoever commented about the accent thing, I wasn't saying it's a good thing. Merely that the moment she opens her mouth and starts telling the English how they should vote is going to lose Remain more votes south of the border.
    You really are in denial. Any way time to go to sleep. Lets see what happens tomorrow. If you are right it will be a non story and no one will watch the two hour ITV debate with Sturgeon v Boris tomorrow.
  • VapidBilgeVapidBilge Posts: 412
    Estobar said:

    chestnut said:

    Nicola Sturgeon is a person who has spent her political life arguing that Scotland should be independent. How on earth can she then stand up and suggest the UK should not?

    Quite.

    I think this is a very dangerous moment for Remain, if anyone actually watches.

    By the way, to whoever commented about the accent thing, I wasn't saying it's a good thing. Merely that the moment she opens her mouth and starts telling the English how they should vote is going to lose Remain more votes south of the border.
    Didn't Labour (and UKIP) lose a huge number of votes to the Tories after Sturgeon's and Salmond's campaigning in the General Election? All because of their screw England attitude.

    A repeat of that and Leave will romp home.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,414
    Braveheart's on Film4 at 9pm later today. :lol:
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Estobar said:

    chestnut said:

    Nicola Sturgeon is a person who has spent her political life arguing that Scotland should be independent. How on earth can she then stand up and suggest the UK should not?

    Quite.

    I think this is a very dangerous moment for Remain, if anyone actually watches.

    By the way, to whoever commented about the accent thing, I wasn't saying it's a good thing. Merely that the moment she opens her mouth and starts telling the English how they should vote is going to lose Remain more votes south of the border.
    You really are in denial. Any way time to go to sleep. Lets see what happens tomorrow. If you are right it will be a non story and no one will watch the two hour ITV debate with Sturgeon v Boris tomorrow.
    Like I Said,the TV news media are slanted towards remain,of course her defection will be used.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320

    fitalass said:

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
    Trust me, Nicola Sturgeon isn't the most accomplished politician in the UK, but rather the most over rated. You should follow her weekly performance at First Ministers Questions, she really isn't that good.
    A fair question then, who is the most accomplished (and recognised) UK politician
    I think that would be a hotly disputed question for another day. But much as I dislike Alex Salmond, I would say that his record of success as both an SNP politician and Leader far outstrips that of his immediate successor. It may have been Alex Salmond as SNP Leader and FM who fell on his sword and resigned when the SNP failed to win the Indy Ref, it was in fact Nicola Sturgeon who ran the SNP Government's Indy campaign.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    Remain has tightened steadily throughout the evening - now in to 1.33.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Estobar said:

    chestnut said:

    Nicola Sturgeon is a person who has spent her political life arguing that Scotland should be independent. How on earth can she then stand up and suggest the UK should not?

    Quite.

    I think this is a very dangerous moment for Remain, if anyone actually watches.

    By the way, to whoever commented about the accent thing, I wasn't saying it's a good thing. Merely that the moment she opens her mouth and starts telling the English how they should vote is going to lose Remain more votes south of the border.
    You really are in denial. Any way time to go to sleep. Lets see what happens tomorrow. If you are right it will be a non story and no one will watch the two hour ITV debate with Sturgeon v Boris tomorrow.
    Like I Said,the TV news media are slanted towards remain,of course her defection will be used.
    The public have never bought that the money would be spent on the NHS anyway. They do know we pay in what sounds a lot though whilst Cameron and Osborne are heading a government pushing cuts.

    That's the wedge.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
    Trust me, Nicola Sturgeon isn't the most accomplished politician in the UK, but rather the most over rated. You should follow her weekly performance at First Ministers Questions, she really isn't that good.
    A fair question then, who is the most accomplished (and recognised) UK politician
    I think that would be a hotly disputed question for another day. But much as I dislike Alex Salmond, I would say that his record of success as both an SNP politician and Leader far outstrips that of his immediate successor. It may have been Alex Salmond as SNP Leader and FM who fell on his sword and resigned when the SNP failed to win the Indy Ref, it was in fact Nicola Sturgeon who ran the SNP Government's Indy campaign.
    As I am married to a Lossiemouth quine for the last 52 years and lived in Edinburgh in the sixties I am interested in Scots politics but Alex Salmond was just annoying and Nicola is much better though I do not agree with her politics. I thought you might even suggest Ruth Davidson but maybe she is a rising star
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587



    What about doing a header on switching sides and how low of a opinion people have of you ?

    With rare exceptions I think that nearly everyone welcomes switchers if they're the recipients. Boris was terribly unpopular here with Leavers until he came out for Leave, and then suddenly he was a good egg.

    But they're rare in mid-campaign, which is why Sarah W is striking. It'll be interesting to see her reasons.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944



    What about doing a header on switching sides and how low of a opinion people have of you ?

    With rare exceptions I think that nearly everyone welcomes switchers if they're the recipients. Boris was terribly unpopular here with Leavers until he came out for Leave, and then suddenly he was a good egg.

    But they're rare in mid-campaign, which is why Sarah W is striking. It'll be interesting to see her reasons.
    There's all sorts of rumours of people changing sides, though so far only this one. The only reasons I've heard were as justified a month ago as today.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
    Trust me, Nicola Sturgeon isn't the most accomplished politician in the UK, but rather the most over rated. You should follow her weekly performance at First Ministers Questions, she really isn't that good.
    A fair question then, who is the most accomplished (and recognised) UK politician
    I think that would be a hotly disputed question for another day. But much as I dislike Alex Salmond, I would say that his record of success as both an SNP politician and Leader far outstrips that of his immediate successor. It may have been Alex Salmond as SNP Leader and FM who fell on his sword and resigned when the SNP failed to win the Indy Ref, it was in fact Nicola Sturgeon who ran the SNP Government's Indy campaign.
    As I am married to a Lossiemouth quine for the last 52 years and lived in Edinburgh in the sixties I am interested in Scots politics but Alex Salmond was just annoying and Nicola is much better though I do not agree with her politics. I thought you might even suggest Ruth Davidson but maybe she is a rising star
    I would personally have chosen Ruth Davidson, but I preferred to actually back up my point about Sturgeon being over rated with some relevant points instead.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
    Trust me, Nicola Sturgeon isn't the most accomplished politician in the UK, but rather the most over rated. You should follow her weekly performance at First Ministers Questions, she really isn't that good.
    A fair question then, who is the most accomplished (and recognised) UK politician
    I think that would be a hotly disputed question for another day. But much as I dislike Alex Salmond, I would say that his record of success as both an SNP politician and Leader far outstrips that of his immediate successor. It may have been Alex Salmond as SNP Leader and FM who fell on his sword and resigned when the SNP failed to win the Indy Ref, it was in fact Nicola Sturgeon who ran the SNP Government's Indy campaign.
    As I am married to a Lossiemouth quine for the last 52 years and lived in Edinburgh in the sixties I am interested in Scots politics but Alex Salmond was just annoying and Nicola is much better though I do not agree with her politics. I thought you might even suggest Ruth Davidson but maybe she is a rising star
    I would personally have chosen Ruth Davidson, but I preferred to actually back up my point about Sturgeon being over rated with some relevant points instead.
    Thanks for that and appreciate your comments - have a good night
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362



    What about doing a header on switching sides and how low of a opinion people have of you ?

    With rare exceptions I think that nearly everyone welcomes switchers if they're the recipients. Boris was terribly unpopular here with Leavers until he came out for Leave, and then suddenly he was a good egg.

    But they're rare in mid-campaign, which is why Sarah W is striking. It'll be interesting to see her reasons.
    What do you think of what Kate Hoey has said about you middle-class labour type ?

    Post down thread if you haven't seen it,she's right isn't she.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    chestnut said:

    Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
    Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.

    And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.

    Your help is much appreciated.
    Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
    Trust me, Nicola Sturgeon isn't the most accomplished politician in the UK, but rather the most over rated. You should follow her weekly performance at First Ministers Questions, she really isn't that good.
    A fair question then, who is the most accomplished (and recognised) UK politician
    I think that would be a hotly disputed question for another day. But much as I dislike Alex Salmond, I would say that his record of success as both an SNP politician and Leader far outstrips that of his immediate successor. It may have been Alex Salmond as SNP Leader and FM who fell on his sword and resigned when the SNP failed to win the Indy Ref, it was in fact Nicola Sturgeon who ran the SNP Government's Indy campaign.
    As I am married to a Lossiemouth quine for the last 52 years and lived in Edinburgh in the sixties I am interested in Scots politics but Alex Salmond was just annoying and Nicola is much better though I do not agree with her politics. I thought you might even suggest Ruth Davidson but maybe she is a rising star
    I would personally have chosen Ruth Davidson, but I preferred to actually back up my point about Sturgeon being over rated with some relevant points instead.
    Thanks for that and appreciate your comments - have a good night
    You too, enjoyed our chat.
  • BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944



    What about doing a header on switching sides and how low of a opinion people have of you ?

    With rare exceptions I think that nearly everyone welcomes switchers if they're the recipients. Boris was terribly unpopular here with Leavers until he came out for Leave, and then suddenly he was a good egg.

    But they're rare in mid-campaign, which is why Sarah W is striking. It'll be interesting to see her reasons.
    What do you think of what Kate Hoey has said about you middle-class labour type ?

    Post down thread if you haven't seen it,she's right isn't she.
    She is. It's also much of the right wing case for Brexit as well.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    RobD said:

    twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/740674323783004160

    Brilliant news!!
    Evening scrapheap! How are you killing time now the iPlayer has taken down the recording of the blessed event? :D
    Currently on golf retreat with friends, YouTube weekend awaits if TMS isn't on.. spot of footie too I understand
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Best wishes to Lord jack w too.

  • Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens

    i predict you'll declare it good for remain.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,815

    Estobar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
    I've never heard of her. The Times leader is all about the billionaire boss of JCB coming out for Brexit.

    To be honest I don't think these kind of switches from nobodies will make one iota of difference.

    Nicola Sturgeon is not at all popular south of the border so this will backfire horribly for Remain.
    Not really sure why the Times are suddenly running with the JCB story now. Bamford has been solidly for Leave since long before the campaign started.
    The Times is trying to work out in its own head which way to jump.

    It used to be slam-dunk for LEAVE and printed lots of "Euroseptics slam..." headlines. The day the "Brexit kills pensions" story came out, the Times dead-dogged it by dong the EU Army headline, and Bruno Waterfield is pretty sceptic. But the business pages have been pretty REMAIN, sometimes solidly so. So it's conflicted. I assume it'll go LEAVE eventually. But until then, it's going to oscillate a bit
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Agreed mostly, but the leaflet business did leave a sour taste.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Do you think tories have peaked in Scotlad or could go further. Are SLab in terminal decline? Surely the unions will keep labour alive in scotland.
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited June 2016
    Any leavers need help to get out the postal vote? Happy to help in London, mainly central and north west London don't really venture to the wasteland of south London.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    nunu said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Do you think tories have peaked in Scotlad or could go further. Are SLab in terminal decline? Surely the unions will keep labour alive in scotland.
    Ruth Davidson for FM 2021!
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    RobD said:

    nunu said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Do you think tories have peaked in Scotlad or could go further. Are SLab in terminal decline? Surely the unions will keep labour alive in scotland.
    Ruth Davidson for FM 2021!
    haha one can only dream.....
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Apperently Cardiff declares at 4:00am should be crucial if it votes Leave- leave have won?
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558

    Estobar said:

    chestnut said:

    Nicola Sturgeon is a person who has spent her political life arguing that Scotland should be independent. How on earth can she then stand up and suggest the UK should not?

    Quite.

    I think this is a very dangerous moment for Remain, if anyone actually watches.

    By the way, to whoever commented about the accent thing, I wasn't saying it's a good thing. Merely that the moment she opens her mouth and starts telling the English how they should vote is going to lose Remain more votes south of the border.
    You really are in denial. Any way time to go to sleep. Lets see what happens tomorrow. If you are right it will be a non story .
    It's not even mentioned now on Sky News http://news.sky.com

    It dropped off, which pretty much sums it up.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    And fwiw, Nicola Sturgeon helped lose the last election for Labour. Her pitiful pleading live on television with EdM was fantastically ill-judged. There was no way he was going to say live that he would do a pact with the Scot Nats. So she managed to raise the issue without getting the result thus alienating English voters further. Bravo.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    RobD said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Agreed mostly, but the leaflet business did leave a sour taste.
    Leaflet?

    What about the Scottish Government's 650 page Scotland's Future?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170

    RobD said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Agreed mostly, but the leaflet business did leave a sour taste.
    Leaflet?

    What about the Scottish Government's 650 page Scotland's Future?
    Blimey, have voters actually finished reading it yet? :D
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    Speaking for Britain's Future, but not allowing people to vote for it.....

    Dear Carlotta,

    The Government has extended the deadline to apply to vote in the EU referendum.

    They've just told the House of Commons that their website crashed last night because of the high demand – but we know that the Government and their allies are trying to register as many likely Remain voters as possible.

    That's why it's vital that we use this opportunity to make sure every likely Leave voter is registered too.

    Even worse, we know that European Union citizens who have no legal right to vote have been given the right to vote and have already voted. This is illegal but the Electoral Commission and the Government are doing nothing about it.


    Tin foil shortage......

    If people are breaking the law, report it to the police.....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170

    Speaking for Britain's Future, but not allowing people to vote for it.....

    Dear Carlotta,

    The Government has extended the deadline to apply to vote in the EU referendum.

    They've just told the House of Commons that their website crashed last night because of the high demand – but we know that the Government and their allies are trying to register as many likely Remain voters as possible.

    That's why it's vital that we use this opportunity to make sure every likely Leave voter is registered too.

    Even worse, we know that European Union citizens who have no legal right to vote have been given the right to vote and have already voted. This is illegal but the Electoral Commission and the Government are doing nothing about it.


    Tin foil shortage......

    If people are breaking the law, report it to the police.....

    That is quite something given their recent "register to vote" link on their website not actually linking to the official site.

    I hope you've diversified your popcorn-heavy portfolio... :D
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited June 2016
    nunu said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Do you think tories have peaked in Scotlad or could go further. Are SLab in terminal decline? Surely the unions will keep labour alive in scotland.
    No, to both the Tories having peaked in Scotland, or to an end to SLab decline. The Unions in Scotland like much of the Scottish media, both formerly big supporters of SLab, have now become quite brutal in their distancing from SLab to either sit on the fence or support the SNP.

    I followed the Named Person debate in Holyrood the afternoon, and it was incredible to finally see such a feisty, and on the part of the SNP and other opposition parties, consistently tribal attack on the Scottish Conservatives for their stance on the Named Person scheme. All the parties apart from the Scottish Conservatives voted it through without any real scrutiny, criticisms or concerns. But rather than discuss these now very vocal concerns raised by parents and professionals. All the other parties focussed their attacks on the Scottish Conservatives and the media for their representation of their genuine concerns rather than the lack of safe guards, infrastructure or oversight of this very toxic scheme they all nodded through.

    But two things have become very clear today, the SNP finally have finally met their match in this very strong and robust new main Opposition which they are finding very difficult to rebut. And the much diminished SLab and Libdems parties are now more worried that this resurgent Scottish Conservative party who successfully moved onto their turf in the Holyrood elections. But while all the parties of the left focus their guns on the Scottish Conservatives, they are not raising, focusing on and positioning themselves with the voters on the issues that matter to them. Even now, both SLab and Libdems have failed to grasp that the Scottish Conservatives very successfully campaigned on being a strong opposition towards this dominant SNP Government pushing through unpopular and illiberal laws.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Agreed mostly, but the leaflet business did leave a sour taste.
    Leaflet?

    What about the Scottish Government's 650 page Scotland's Future?
    Blimey, have voters actually finished reading it yet? :D
    I think there was one.....but I hear its very handy as a door stop.....to paraphrase Dorothy Parker....'it should not be tossed aside lightly, but thrown with great force....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    fitalass said:

    nunu said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Do you think tories have peaked in Scotlad or could go further. Are SLab in terminal decline? Surely the unions will keep labour alive in scotland.
    I followed the Named Person debate in Holyrood
    It got through - but I suspect McSTASI may stick:

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/opinion/jenny-hjul/186516/mcstasi-is-not-working/
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited June 2016

    fitalass said:

    nunu said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Do you think tories have peaked in Scotlad or could go further. Are SLab in terminal decline? Surely the unions will keep labour alive in scotland.
    I followed the Named Person debate in Holyrood
    It got through - but I suspect McSTASI may stick:

    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/opinion/jenny-hjul/186516/mcstasi-is-not-working/
    Unfortunately, there was never going to be any doubt that it would get through with the SNP, Greens, and Libdems still backing it without any pause to address genuine concerns. And while SLab now sit on the fence wringing their hands still supporting it, but now complaining voters have not been persuaded, never mind properly notified two years after they voted the law through!

    As a parent, I find it utterly incredible that this scheme has got as far as the implementation stage without proper safe guards, infrastructure or proper Government oversight. The steering Committee that was to oversee the Named Person scheme was summarily dismissed after their last meeting saw Police Scotland raise concerns. Absolutely no way would this illiberal legislation based on 'well being' have ever got through the Westminster in its current form.

    And just think what impact it could have on the formerly trusting relationship that parents have had with their Health Visitors and teachers in their children's schools.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    RobD said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    Agreed mostly, but the leaflet business did leave a sour taste.
    You got the leaflets, but we had the infamous SNP White paper with among other things, that now mythical Oil&Gas revenue forecast.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited June 2016
    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    We are still trying to get our heads round the fragrant Nicola shouting for Scottish independence while criticising her nearest neighbour for wanting the same.

    MegaMchipocrosy#
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    Sarah Wollaston is lead story on BBC News website - very likely she is going to be lead story on all BBC TV and radio breakfast bulletins - and fair chance she will still be lead at lunchtime.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Moses_ said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    We are still trying to get our heads round the fragrant Nicola shouting for Scottish independence while criticising her nearest neighbour for wanting the same.

    MegaMchipocrosy#
    Hi Moses, I think it must be nearly a decade ago that I first raised the issue of the SNPs entirely hypocritical stance on maintaining membership of the EU while demanding Independence from the UK. If anything, their position has certainly helped me come around to the far more consistent view that that we are better off in the UK and the EU despite being a Eurosceptic with serious concerns about EU in its current form. :)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    MikeL said:

    Sarah Wollaston is lead story on BBC News website - very likely she is going to be lead story on all BBC TV and radio breakfast bulletins - and fair chance she will still be lead at lunchtime.

    Have you updated PB on the composition of the House of Peers recently? LD attrition still underway one hopes (RIP).
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Sarah Wollaston is lead story on BBC News website - very likely she is going to be lead story on all BBC TV and radio breakfast bulletins - and fair chance she will still be lead at lunchtime.

    Have you updated PB on the composition of the House of Peers recently? LD attrition still underway one hopes (RIP).
    Attrition has been more even in the last couple of months.

    Current state of parties is:

    Con 246, Lab 210, LD 108, Crossbench 173, Others 65, Total 802

    Total now up just 14 compared to June 2011 (when it was 788)

    Reports suggest Cameron is going to appoint a substantial number of new Peers post EU ref. Presumably no (or almost no) LDs as they are so over-represented. It was suggested Corbyn would refuse to nominate any new Labour Peers - but I doubt he'll stick to that as it would gift Cameron the chance to improve net Con position more than otherwise would be the case.

    Post 2015 GE, he appointed Con 26, LD 11, Lab 8.

    So at a guess I think this time it might be something like Con 20, Lab 5.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Sarah Wollaston is lead story on BBC News website - very likely she is going to be lead story on all BBC TV and radio breakfast bulletins - and fair chance she will still be lead at lunchtime.

    Have you updated PB on the composition of the House of Peers recently? LD attrition still underway one hopes (RIP).
    Attrition has been more even in the last couple of months.

    Current state of parties is:

    Con 246, Lab 210, LD 108, Crossbench 173, Others 65, Total 802

    Total now up just 14 compared to June 2011 (when it was 788)

    Reports suggest Cameron is going to appoint a substantial number of new Peers post EU ref. Presumably no (or almost no) LDs as they are so over-represented. It was suggested Corbyn would refuse to nominate any new Labour Peers - but I doubt he'll stick to that as it would gift Cameron the chance to improve net Con position more than otherwise would be the case.

    Post 2015 GE, he appointed Con 26, LD 11, Lab 8.

    So at a guess I think this time it might be something like Con 20, Lab 5.
    Thanks! Cam could just repeal the HoL Act 1999. That'd certainly introduce a few more Tory peers :)

    I still can't get behind the argument a large membership is a bad thing, surely it is necessary in order to be able to draw on a wide range of talent. Yes, I'd seriously curtail the number of political appointees, but I would stuff it with scientist, engineers, captains of industry etc.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Sarah Wollaston is lead story on BBC News website - very likely she is going to be lead story on all BBC TV and radio breakfast bulletins - and fair chance she will still be lead at lunchtime.

    Have you updated PB on the composition of the House of Peers recently? LD attrition still underway one hopes (RIP).
    Attrition has been more even in the last couple of months.

    Current state of parties is:

    Con 246, Lab 210, LD 108, Crossbench 173, Others 65, Total 802

    Total now up just 14 compared to June 2011 (when it was 788)

    Reports suggest Cameron is going to appoint a substantial number of new Peers post EU ref. Presumably no (or almost no) LDs as they are so over-represented. It was suggested Corbyn would refuse to nominate any new Labour Peers - but I doubt he'll stick to that as it would gift Cameron the chance to improve net Con position more than otherwise would be the case.

    Post 2015 GE, he appointed Con 26, LD 11, Lab 8.

    So at a guess I think this time it might be something like Con 20, Lab 5.
    Thanks! Cam could just repeal the HoL Act 1999. That'd certainly introduce a few more Tory peers :)

    I still can't get behind the argument a large membership is a bad thing, surely it is necessary in order to be able to draw on a wide range of talent. Yes, I'd seriously curtail the number of political appointees, but I would stuff it with scientist, engineers, captains of industry etc.
    There have been very few non-political appointees recently.

    I think there were just four appointed by the Independent commission charged with finding non-political appointees last year (and that was after a two year gap).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    edited June 2016
    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Sarah Wollaston is lead story on BBC News website - very likely she is going to be lead story on all BBC TV and radio breakfast bulletins - and fair chance she will still be lead at lunchtime.

    Have you updated PB on the composition of the House of Peers recently? LD attrition still underway one hopes (RIP).
    Attrition has been more even in the last couple of months.

    Current state of parties is:

    Con 246, Lab 210, LD 108, Crossbench 173, Others 65, Total 802

    Total now up just 14 compared to June 2011 (when it was 788)

    Reports suggest Cameron is going to appoint a substantial number of new Peers post EU ref. Presumably no (or almost no) LDs as they are so over-represented. It was suggested Corbyn would refuse to nominate any new Labour Peers - but I doubt he'll stick to that as it would gift Cameron the chance to improve net Con position more than otherwise would be the case.

    Post 2015 GE, he appointed Con 26, LD 11, Lab 8.

    So at a guess I think this time it might be something like Con 20, Lab 5.
    Thanks! Cam could just repeal the HoL Act 1999. That'd certainly introduce a few more Tory peers :)

    I still can't get behind the argument a large membership is a bad thing, surely it is necessary in order to be able to draw on a wide range of talent. Yes, I'd seriously curtail the number of political appointees, but I would stuff it with scientist, engineers, captains of industry etc.
    There have been very few non-political appointees recently.

    I think there were just four appointed by the Independent commission charged with finding non-political appointees last year (and that was after a two year gap).
    That's very disappointing, although does that count Conservative/Labour peers from industry, as opposed to Crossbench appointees? Gosh, this was much easier when the whole thing was hereditary :)
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Sarah Wollaston is lead story on BBC News website - very likely she is going to be lead story on all BBC TV and radio breakfast bulletins - and fair chance she will still be lead at lunchtime.

    Have you updated PB on the composition of the House of Peers recently? LD attrition still underway one hopes (RIP).
    Attrition has been more even in the last couple of months.

    Current state of parties is:

    Con 246, Lab 210, LD 108, Crossbench 173, Others 65, Total 802

    Total now up just 14 compared to June 2011 (when it was 788)

    Reports suggest Cameron is going to appoint a substantial number of new Peers post EU ref. Presumably no (or almost no) LDs as they are so over-represented. It was suggested Corbyn would refuse to nominate any new Labour Peers - but I doubt he'll stick to that as it would gift Cameron the chance to improve net Con position more than otherwise would be the case.

    Post 2015 GE, he appointed Con 26, LD 11, Lab 8.

    So at a guess I think this time it might be something like Con 20, Lab 5.
    Thanks! Cam could just repeal the HoL Act 1999. That'd certainly introduce a few more Tory peers :)

    I still can't get behind the argument a large membership is a bad thing, surely it is necessary in order to be able to draw on a wide range of talent. Yes, I'd seriously curtail the number of political appointees, but I would stuff it with scientist, engineers, captains of industry etc.
    There have been very few non-political appointees recently.

    I think there were just four appointed by the Independent commission charged with finding non-political appointees last year (and that was after a two year gap).
    That's very disappointing, although does that count Conservative/Labour peers from industry, as opposed to Crossbench appointees? Gosh, this was much easier when the whole thing was hereditary :)
    No - the four were completely non-Party.

    Obviously the Party ones do include lots of people with industry / other experience.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    Sarah Wollaston is lead story on BBC News website - very likely she is going to be lead story on all BBC TV and radio breakfast bulletins - and fair chance she will still be lead at lunchtime.

    Have you updated PB on the composition of the House of Peers recently? LD attrition still underway one hopes (RIP).
    Attrition has been more even in the last couple of months.

    Current state of parties is:

    Con 246, Lab 210, LD 108, Crossbench 173, Others 65, Total 802

    Total now up just 14 compared to June 2011 (when it was 788)

    Reports suggest Cameron is going to appoint a substantial number of new Peers post EU ref. Presumably no (or almost no) LDs as they are so over-represented. It was suggested Corbyn would refuse to nominate any new Labour Peers - but I doubt he'll stick to that as it would gift Cameron the chance to improve net Con position more than otherwise would be the case.

    Post 2015 GE, he appointed Con 26, LD 11, Lab 8.

    So at a guess I think this time it might be something like Con 20, Lab 5.
    Thanks! Cam could just repeal the HoL Act 1999. That'd certainly introduce a few more Tory peers :)

    I still can't get behind the argument a large membership is a bad thing, surely it is necessary in order to be able to draw on a wide range of talent. Yes, I'd seriously curtail the number of political appointees, but I would stuff it with scientist, engineers, captains of industry etc.
    There have been very few non-political appointees recently.

    I think there were just four appointed by the Independent commission charged with finding non-political appointees last year (and that was after a two year gap).
    That's very disappointing, although does that count Conservative/Labour peers from industry, as opposed to Crossbench appointees? Gosh, this was much easier when the whole thing was hereditary :)
    No - the four were completely non-Party.

    Obviously the Party ones do include lots of people with industry / other experience.
    To change the subject completely, I don't think I've been on enough to know which way you are leaning at the coming vote? To me, Leave offers a very romantic opportunity, heart vs. head and all that. Thinking I may just abstain, especially as I have not been a resident these past few years. How about you?
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    edited June 2016
    In a campaign littered with lies, exaggeration and hyperbole from both sides I doubt Sarah Woollacote's defection will scratch the surface of most people's consciousness. And, pace Nick P, it happens all the time: usually to calculated effect.

    Today's fronts are very bad again for Cameron. The Sun is having a field day with the immigration issue which I continue to maintain will be highly significant.

    I've heard too many sotto voce expressions of concern about losing jobs to migrants to think this is a non-topic. Shy Leave may win it.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    Guido was in fine fettle yesterday:

    'It’s all gone a bit Pete Tong for the PM. It turns out lining up every global leader, trade envoy and financier from Canary Wharf to Chongqing to warn the serfs to vote Remain on threat of nuclear apocalypse wasn’t actually the best idea. Who’d have thought it? People voting in a referendum on global elites don’t want to listen to those same global elites telling them which way to vote. How very bizarre!

    Luckily for the Leave camp, master political strategist David Cameron is so comprehensively divorced from any semblance of normality that he doesn’t realise this, and will continue treating the British people like benighted little peasants who need to sit down and listen to what the clever dignitaries and technocrats tell them. In fact, unwittingly, the red-faced ex-Buller boy is one of the Leave campaign’s single biggest assets.'

    :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    fitalass said:

    Moses_ said:

    fitalass said:

    I still find it incredible that the Leave side can even claim, never mind criticise the Government for taking such a long running strong and clear position having delivered our first EU Referendum in forty years?! Can you imagine just how ridiculous it would have been for the Better Together campaign to demand that their most powerful opponent, the SNP Government at Holyrood who had sought the Independence Referendum should then sit on their hands as silent bystanders through out the campaign?! Talk about losing the plot on this issue.

    We are still trying to get our heads round the fragrant Nicola shouting for Scottish independence while criticising her nearest neighbour for wanting the same.

    MegaMchipocrosy#
    we are better off in the UK and the EU despite being a Eurosceptic with serious concerns about EU in its current form. :)
    Snap!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,170
    Estobar said:

    Guido was in fine fettle yesterday:

    'It’s all gone a bit Pete Tong for the PM. It turns out lining up every global leader, trade envoy and financier from Canary Wharf to Chongqing to warn the serfs to vote Remain on threat of nuclear apocalypse wasn’t actually the best idea. Who’d have thought it? People voting in a referendum on global elites don’t want to listen to those same global elites telling them which way to vote. How very bizarre!

    Luckily for the Leave camp, master political strategist David Cameron is so comprehensively divorced from any semblance of normality that he doesn’t realise this, and will continue treating the British people like benighted little peasants who need to sit down and listen to what the clever dignitaries and technocrats tell them. In fact, unwittingly, the red-faced ex-Buller boy is one of the Leave campaign’s single biggest assets.'

    :)

    Credit where credit is due. Simon Carr is always a good read on the Wed morning (for me) commute.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:


    To change the subject completely, I don't think I've been on enough to know which way you are leaning at the coming vote? To me, Leave offers a very romantic opportunity, heart vs. head and all that. Thinking I may just abstain, especially as I have not been a resident these past few years. How about you?

    I'm a floating voter - but leaning Remain.

    I started off 75:25 Remain but then as campaign progressed I moved towards Leave - by last Saturday I was very nearly 50:50. But since Sunday I've swung back to Remain - now approx 65:35.

    Sunday was also the day I thought the Leave momentum stalled. The killer moments for me were the Major interview and the ORB poll showing Remain was miles ahead (approx 65-25 from memory) on the Wisdom Index - ie 65% think Remain will win.

    That moment reinforced to me the thought that many people who want to vote Leave (and think they will) won't go through with it on the day. So I think it's shaping it for a carbon copy of 2014 Indy Ref and 2015 GE - people bottling it and going safe option at the crunch.

    But no doubt Remain had a very big wobble indeed - they looked in big trouble at end of last week post Gove on Sky. But Major then steadied it at key moment and now they are going on the attack with the line "Leave = Farage" - unfair maybe - but will be effective.

    It's amazing how under-rated Major is - he singlehandedly saved Cameron in 2007 when he went on the news to destroy Brown for going to Afghanistan during Con conference. That directly stopped Brown calling a GE and meant Cameron lived to fight another day - and ultimately then became PM. Now he has intervened again at the absolutely crucial moment to save Cameron again.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    Estobar said:

    Today's fronts are very bad again for Cameron.

    If we do vote REMAIN, the biggest losers will be the dead tree press, then Boris.......no more invites to Number 10, or anywhere very much....just Employment Tribunals and the Insolvency Courts to look forward to.......
This discussion has been closed.