This is now Remain's campaign message and in particular DC and GO. Must be result of focus group but if sticks will not be good for leave
There were a couple of "Nigel Farage's Little England" from DC at PMQs today. It's obviously a focus grouped line that NF is unpopular with swing voters, and Remain think that if they push the line it might stop a few waverers from voting Leave. Expect to hear it every day for the next fortnight.
Calling at least half your voters, members and activists Little Englanders is beyond self destructive.
I'm beyond stunned TBH
Trashing your brand is Ratner like behaviour. That can be terminal for the image of a brand. They (Osborne and Cameron) just do not care.
Vote Leave arguing amongst themselves whether it is £350m or £200m seems really poor...
... for Remain who look bad (either way) while this is in the news.
You do have a point, but it also makes Leave look innumerate.
Innumerate?
Take a look at the Tories' immigration commitment; makes Leave look like financial accountants.
Exxon's accountants perhaps. I am first in the line to criticise the duplicitous tens of thousands pledge but that was duplicitous and this is politics. Worse than that is to look incompetent.
Interestingly, Gove was on TV a few days ago saying that it would be tens of thousands of immigrants after Brexit, which is just as duplicitous. Unlike Cameron he won't be called out on it until after we Brexit, if we do. Cameron has a big immigration problem. Remain has a big Cameron problem in that he seems to be fronting the thing single-handedly. Therefore Remain has a Cameron-sized immigration problem.
It was idiotic from the start.
Estimates I have seen put the decrease in immigration post-Brexit at around 100,000, so leaving 200,000 and change. That is of course a huge drop in EU immigration, but it's still 200,000.
Shades of £350m/£250m about it.
Not that a Leaver would mention it, while Remain, as you say, can't.
Meanwhile, I guess George Osborne didn't make Airfix models as a boy, otherwise he might know that wings are a fairly fundamental part of an aeroplane.
@elliotttimes: Chair of health select committee says her balanced view is that NHS better off in EU - full piece in @thetimes
This is not a story that will be buried by the resignation of someone who left 30 years ago
Sunday: "There is a tendency to think of EU regulations and the European Court of Justice as benign, but interference with decisions like minimum unit pricing in Scotland show the power of big business interests to win out over important public health protections."
And made a fool of herself. Her words will be thrown back at her, mercilessly. This is TPD behaviour.
As luck would have it, if you can call it luck, John Nott quitting should cancel this out to some extent.
Very odd. She was evidently quite a staunch eurosceptic and yet decided to somehow defect from one campaign telling fibs to another campaign telling fibs.
Why would one change their vote in a referendum based on the details of the campaign itself, rather than the substantive issue of whether they believe that Britian should be in the EU? I can understand that she doesn't want to associate herself with a campaign she sees as dishonest, but the issue itself hasn't changed and the opposing campaign is just as bad natured as the one she's left.
Harry Cole Home Office said last week they cannot provide numbers on how many jobseekers have been kicked out after six months, despite Osborne claim.
Blimey.
While Remain focus on personal attacks, Leave are busy taking Remain's claims to pieces.
Remain do realise this isn't an election and Farage won't be on the ballot?
Plenty of people acting like Cameron is on the ballot, given the non-EU things that are brought up around him in this debate. Which given Leave do have the best arguments, shows no one can help going personal.
Cameron is PM and will be the day after the referendum. He stood on that dishonest immigration manifesto pledge. He is fighting to prevent his implementing it.
Farage is an MEP. In a parliament that cannot propose legislation.
Curious. The claims of VoteLeave may well have been untrue, but if she thought leaving the EU was a good idea, surely even if she was unwilling to being part of their campaign she would not switch to remain over incorrect claims - incorrect claims presumably don't invalidate the reasons she wanted to leave?
Utterly bizarre. I have to hand it to my dad - he predicted that someone at some point would switch sides.
Excited Brexiteers once again might be well advised to read the piece
Dr Wollaston said she thought there would be a "Brexit penalty" on the NHS because leaving the EU would hit Britain's economy.
"The consensus now is there would be a huge economic shock if we voted to leave," she said. "Undoubtedly, the thing that's most going to influence the financial health of the NHS is the background economy. So I think there would be a Brexit penalty."
The Vote Leave campaign have been saying (for around a week) that they would spend £100 million a week on health...
Still says £350m on the bus, and the leaflets.
What? All to the NHS? Well, if so, that's because they've been printed already but the change in how much would go to the NHS has been out for a while.
This is now Remain's campaign message and in particular DC and GO. Must be result of focus group but if sticks will not be good for leave
There were a couple of "Nigel Farage's Little England" from DC at PMQs today. It's obviously a focus grouped line that NF is unpopular with swing voters, and Remain think that if they push the line it might stop a few waverers from voting Leave. Expect to hear it every day for the next fortnight.
Calling at least half your voters, members and activists Little Englanders is beyond self destructive.
I'm beyond stunned TBH
The leave campaign has for the past week focused on nothing more than ramping up the xenophobia. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and lays eggs, then I think we can safely call it a duck.
Ooh, a possible defection. Not sure how this works for a referendum though, she's been quite forthright about her Leave views, contrary to her party's leadership - if she turns up tomorrow morning going on about "Nigel Farage's Little England" she'll just look stupid.
I'm quite happy to give lessons to Leavers on how to deal with defectors.
I was the model of restraint and rationality when Mark Reckless defected to UKIP.
LOL. That TPD, we remember!
Favourite moment last May, Reckless or Balls?
Reckless. I've always kinda like Ed Balls on some levels.
Shows how brutal politics is. On May 7th last year at 9.59pm Ed Balls was thinking he might be Chancellor of the Exchequer in the morning. turns out he ended up being unemployed in the morning.
Yes, politics can be a brutal game. I think Balls got the bigger cheer at the party I was at that morning, but thinking back Reckless was the one we were most happy to see shoved off the green benches on his fat sorry arse.
I know someone who was at Matthew Parker Street on election night, he said the biggest cheers of the night were the following
1) Reckless losing 2) Cable losing 3) Nuneaton result 4) Ed Balls losing
Counterfactual - Balls led Labour Party might be 20 points ahead in the polls right now.
Harry Cole Home Office said last week they cannot provide numbers on how many jobseekers have been kicked out after six months, despite Osborne claim.
Blimey.
While Remain focus on personal attacks, Leave are busy taking Remain's claims to pieces.
Remain do realise this isn't an election and Farage won't be on the ballot?
Plenty of people acting like Cameron is on the ballot, given the non-EU things that are brought up around him in this debate. Which given Leave do have the best arguments, shows no one can help going personal.
Cameron is PM and will be the day after the referendum. He stood on that dishonest immigration manifesto pledge. He is fighting to prevent his implementing it.
Farage is an MEP. In a parliament that cannot propose legislation.
I wasn't comparing the two. I was simply pointing out each side has gone personal and that irrelevant matters have been raised (immigration certainly is relevant however) by both, which is a fact. Feel free to think Remain and Cameron have been worse offenders, as a Leaver I explicitly said I thought they had the best arguments, that doesn't mean Leave or their supporters have not also offended, if not as much.
Pretty devastating critique of the leave campaign. Sarah getting the buyers remorse in early. As opposed to a few million who will have it in 10 months time if leave wins.
Yes. DEVASTATING.
The idea that we have handed too much sovereignty, especially over immigration, to a European superstate, has been completely devastated by a Devonshire doctor who, until three hours ago, believed everything she now decides is untrue.
Watch the polls go wild, the pound soar, &c
Are you not too keen on those from across the Tamar?
If Wollaston were a rat the other way we would be hearing Three Minutes' Love instead, about Churchill being a double defector, the power of LEAVE's argumentation, the wonderful Downfall of REMAIN, David Cameron as the Fuehrer in the bunker, etc.
Harry Cole Home Office said last week they cannot provide numbers on how many jobseekers have been kicked out after six months, despite Osborne claim.
Blimey.
While Remain focus on personal attacks, Leave are busy taking Remain's claims to pieces.
Remain do realise this isn't an election and Farage won't be on the ballot?
Plenty of people acting like Cameron is on the ballot, given the non-EU things that are brought up around him in this debate. Which given Leave do have the best arguments, shows no one can help going personal.
Didn't need to be like this. Cameron could have risen above the fray and would likely have won 55 - 45. Project fear and an unpopular leadership has given the momentum to Leave.
Many people feel that is so. It may be right. I was merely observing that it isn't only Remain going personal, even if people feel they have been bigger offenders.
Curious. The claims of VoteLeave may well have been untrue, but if she thought leaving the EU was a good idea, surely even if she was unwilling to being part of their campaign she would not switch to remain over incorrect claims - incorrect claims presumably don't invalidate the reasons she wanted to leave?
You can watch her video here She doesn't come across as particularly frank and straightforward. However I think her doubts and issues will resonate with undecided voters, if they hear them.
@elliotttimes: Chair of health select committee says her balanced view is that NHS better off in EU - full piece in @thetimes
This is not a story that will be buried by the resignation of someone who left 30 years ago
Sunday: "There is a tendency to think of EU regulations and the European Court of Justice as benign, but interference with decisions like minimum unit pricing in Scotland show the power of big business interests to win out over important public health protections."
She has zero credibility. And no integrity.
People can change their minds.
But, it's hard to see how someone can change their mind in four days, whilst retaining any degree of moral integrity.
Harry Cole Home Office said last week they cannot provide numbers on how many jobseekers have been kicked out after six months, despite Osborne claim.
Blimey.
While Remain focus on personal attacks, Leave are busy taking Remain's claims to pieces.
Remain do realise this isn't an election and Farage won't be on the ballot?
Plenty of people acting like Cameron is on the ballot, given the non-EU things that are brought up around him in this debate. Which given Leave do have the best arguments, shows no one can help going personal.
Harry Cole Home Office said last week they cannot provide numbers on how many jobseekers have been kicked out after six months, despite Osborne claim.
Blimey.
While Remain focus on personal attacks, Leave are busy taking Remain's claims to pieces.
Remain do realise this isn't an election and Farage won't be on the ballot?
Plenty of people acting like Cameron is on the ballot, given the non-EU things that are brought up around him in this debate. Which given Leave do have the best arguments, shows no one can help going personal.
Didn't need to be like this. Cameron could have risen above the fray and would likely have won 55 - 45. Project fear and an unpopular leadership has given the momentum to Leave.
The immigration issue was always going to make it close, Remain needed Project Fear on the economy to counteract that
Surprised Wollaston has changed her vote, I thought she was just quitting the campaign. I guess she was genuinely floating and this tipped her over the other side.
O/T, but is she any relation to William Hyde Wollaston, the 18/19th C scientist?
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Will we see a post-referendum split among the Leave Tory MPs, with half writing a letter supporting the PM and the other half writing letters to Graham Brady..?
@David_Cameron: A powerful intervention by @sarahwollaston, an MP and Dr who will no longer vote Leave because she thinks it will damage the economy & NHS.
@elliotttimes: Chair of health select committee says her balanced view is that NHS better off in EU - full piece in @thetimes
This is not a story that will be buried by the resignation of someone who left 30 years ago
Sunday: "There is a tendency to think of EU regulations and the European Court of Justice as benign, but interference with decisions like minimum unit pricing in Scotland show the power of big business interests to win out over important public health protections."
She has zero credibility. And no integrity.
People can change their minds.
But, it's hard to see how someone can change their mind in four days, whilst retaining any degree of moral integrity.
Ooh, a possible defection. Not sure how this works for a referendum though, she's been quite forthright about her Leave views, contrary to her party's leadership - if she turns up tomorrow morning going on about "Nigel Farage's Little England" she'll just look stupid.
I'm quite happy to give lessons to Leavers on how to deal with defectors.
I was the model of restraint and rationality when Mark Reckless defected to UKIP.
LOL. That TPD, we remember!
Favourite moment last May, Reckless or Balls?
Reckless. I've always kinda like Ed Balls on some levels.
Shows how brutal politics is. On May 7th last year at 9.59pm Ed Balls was thinking he might be Chancellor of the Exchequer in the morning. turns out he ended up being unemployed in the morning.
Yes, politics can be a brutal game. I think Balls got the bigger cheer at the party I was at that morning, but thinking back Reckless was the one we were most happy to see shoved off the green benches on his fat sorry arse.
I know someone who was at Matthew Parker Street on election night, he said the biggest cheers of the night were the following
1) Reckless losing 2) Cable losing 3) Nuneaton result 4) Ed Balls losing
Counterfactual - Balls led Labour Party might be 20 points ahead in the polls right now.
Balls lost his seat for a reason
He was a loss to Labour and the country. Like every politician he talked bollocks more often than not but he has a brain and they are in very short supply at the top table of the Labour Party.
And made a fool of herself. Her words will be thrown back at her, mercilessly. This is TPD behaviour.
As luck would have it, if you can call it luck, John Nott quitting should cancel this out to some extent.
Very odd. She was evidently quite a staunch eurosceptic and yet decided to somehow defect from one campaign telling fibs to another campaign telling fibs.
Why would one change their vote in a referendum based on the details of the campaign itself, rather than the substantive issue of whether they believe that Britian should be in the EU? I can understand that she doesn't want to associate herself with a campaign she sees as dishonest, but the issue itself hasn't changed and the opposing campaign is just as bad natured as the one she's left.
Yup - lets face it, both campaigns have been crap. But she's spent months arguing a pro leave case which I assume she still believes in. So why not disassociate with vote leave and campaign independently. It seems like a totally dishonest position to take (the cabinet reshuffle will be interesting...)
This is now Remain's campaign message and in particular DC and GO. Must be result of focus group but if sticks will not be good for leave
There were a couple of "Nigel Farage's Little England" from DC at PMQs today. It's obviously a focus grouped line that NF is unpopular with swing voters, and Remain think that if they push the line it might stop a few waverers from voting Leave. Expect to hear it every day for the next fortnight.
Calling at least half your voters, members and activists Little Englanders is beyond self destructive.
I'm beyond stunned TBH
Trashing your brand is Ratner like behaviour. That can be terminal for the image of a brand. They (Osborne and Cameron) just do not care.
I presume they do - they just don't think they can win without doing it. For them, it's not a fight they can afford to lose, and if they, correctly or otherwise, see their current behaviour as the only way to win, even at the cost of their brand, of course they are doing it.
A shame, as competency issues aside, when they are replaced I would prefer not too big a change of direction from at present, whereas now there is likely to be more significant culls and changes as the policies and brand are toxified (among the Tory base that is).
The leave campaign has for the past week focused on nothing more than ramping up the xenophobia. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and lays eggs, then I think we can safely call it a duck.
Ooh, a possible defection. Not sure how this works for a referendum though, she's been quite forthright about her Leave views, contrary to her party's leadership - if she turns up tomorrow morning going on about "Nigel Farage's Little England" she'll just look stupid.
I'm quite happy to give lessons to Leavers on how to deal with defectors.
I was the model of restraint and rationality when Mark Reckless defected to UKIP.
LOL. That TPD, we remember!
Favourite moment last May, Reckless or Balls?
Reckless. I've always kinda like Ed Balls on some levels.
Shows how brutal politics is. On May 7th last year at 9.59pm Ed Balls was thinking he might be Chancellor of the Exchequer in the morning. turns out he ended up being unemployed in the morning.
Yes, politics can be a brutal game. I think Balls got the bigger cheer at the party I was at that morning, but thinking back Reckless was the one we were most happy to see shoved off the green benches on his fat sorry arse.
I know someone who was at Matthew Parker Street on election night, he said the biggest cheers of the night were the following
1) Reckless losing 2) Cable losing 3) Nuneaton result 4) Ed Balls losing
Counterfactual - Balls led Labour Party might be 20 points ahead in the polls right now.
Balls lost his seat for a reason
He was a loss to Labour and the country. Like every politician he talked bollocks more often than not but he has a brain and they are in very short supply at the top table of the Labour Party.
Surprised Wollaston has changed her vote, I thought she was just quitting the campaign. I guess she was genuinely floating and this tipped her over the other side.
O/T, but is she any relation to William Hyde Wollaston, the 18/19th C scientist?
Or more likely she was always intending to make this SHOCK SWITCH.
This is now Remain's campaign message and in particular DC and GO. Must be result of focus group but if sticks will not be good for leave
There were a couple of "Nigel Farage's Little England" from DC at PMQs today. It's obviously a focus grouped line that NF is unpopular with swing voters, and Remain think that if they push the line it might stop a few waverers from voting Leave. Expect to hear it every day for the next fortnight.
Calling at least half your voters, members and activists Little Englanders is beyond self destructive.
I'm beyond stunned TBH
The leave campaign has for the past week focused on nothing more than ramping up the xenophobia. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and lays eggs, then I think we can safely call it a duck.
I see that 'xenophobia' is the new 'racist', a word that sounds good, trips off the tongue, and signifies nothing (least of all what you think it means.
Give over - no one on PB gives two hoots whether you use 'xenophobia' or 'triskaidekaphobia'.
Vote Leave arguing amongst themselves whether it is £350m or £200m seems really poor...
... for Remain who look bad (either way) while this is in the news.
You do have a point, but it also makes Leave look innumerate.
Innumerate?
Take a look at the Tories' immigration commitment; makes Leave look like financial accountants.
Exxon's accountants perhaps. I am first in the line to criticise the duplicitous tens of thousands pledge but that was duplicitous and this is politics. Worse than that is to look incompetent.
Interestingly, Gove was on TV a few days ago saying that it would be tens of thousands of immigrants after Brexit, which is just as duplicitous. Unlike Cameron he won't be called out on it until after we Brexit, if we do. Cameron has a big immigration problem. Remain has a big Cameron problem in that he seems to be fronting the thing single-handedly. Therefore Remain has a Cameron-sized immigration problem.
It was idiotic from the start.
Estimates I have seen put the decrease in immigration post-Brexit at around 100,000, so leaving 200,000 and change. That is of course a huge drop in EU immigration, but it's still 200,000.
Shades of £350m/£250m about it.
Not that a Leaver would mention it, while Remain, as you say, can't.
Actually, the OECD are the only people I've seen estimates from and they think it could go down by anywhere from 100K less per year to less than 100K per year.
On the other hand if we remain they see it above 300K per year and they think that's a good thing.
The UK government post brexit could set any policy it wants. They would actually have to put in some border controls though.
Surprised Wollaston has changed her vote, I thought she was just quitting the campaign. I guess she was genuinely floating and this tipped her over the other side.
O/T, but is she any relation to William Hyde Wollaston, the 18/19th C scientist?
Or more likely she was always intending to make this SHOCK SWITCH.
@elliotttimes: Chair of health select committee says her balanced view is that NHS better off in EU - full piece in @thetimes
This is not a story that will be buried by the resignation of someone who left 30 years ago
Sunday: "There is a tendency to think of EU regulations and the European Court of Justice as benign, but interference with decisions like minimum unit pricing in Scotland show the power of big business interests to win out over important public health protections."
She has zero credibility. And no integrity.
People can change their minds.
But, it's hard to see how someone can change their mind in four days, whilst retaining any degree of moral integrity.
Corbyn has agreed to a Sky tv debate in front of a young audience on Monday 20th at 6.00pm before the England match. It is reported that he will attack Boris, Gove, IDS and Farage from the left in a big way. Seems the campaign is hotting up.
On a much more pleasant subject I had the pleasure of seeing the 'Flying Scotsman' in full steam pulling an excursion along side Colwyn Bay promenade today on her way to Chester. Wonderful child hood memories of seeing her daily pass our classroom at Berwick Grammar School in the mid fifties
And made a fool of herself. Her words will be thrown back at her, mercilessly. This is TPD behaviour.
As luck would have it, if you can call it luck, John Nott quitting should cancel this out to some extent.
Very odd. She was evidently quite a staunch eurosceptic and yet decided to somehow defect from one campaign telling fibs to another campaign telling fibs.
Why would one change their vote in a referendum based on the details of the campaign itself, rather than the substantive issue of whether they believe that Britian should be in the EU? I can understand that she doesn't want to associate herself with a campaign she sees as dishonest, but the issue itself hasn't changed and the opposing campaign is just as bad natured as the one she's left.
Yup - lets face it, both campaigns have been crap. But she's spent months arguing a pro leave case which I assume she still believes in. So why not disassociate with vote leave and campaign independently. It seems like a totally dishonest position to take (the cabinet reshuffle will be interesting...)
It's a dead cat to distract from Neil vs Osborne.
I've had a fairly low opinion of her for a while, this has confirmed it. It's a planned wrecking move. A minor one, but it's the required emergency squirrel.
In fairness any defection is pretty interesting, even if this one does not make sense to me. Changing horses mid stream is significant compared merely to someone who presented as eurosceptic in the past but came out for Remain once the campaign started, or tribalists who stick to their party no matter how ridiculously it contorts away from things they claimed to believe in.
And made a fool of herself. Her words will be thrown back at her, mercilessly. This is TPD behaviour.
As luck would have it, if you can call it luck, John Nott quitting should cancel this out to some extent.
Very odd. She was evidently quite a staunch eurosceptic and yet decided to somehow defect from one campaign telling fibs to another campaign telling fibs.
Why would one change their vote in a referendum based on the details of the campaign itself, rather than the substantive issue of whether they believe that Britian should be in the EU? I can understand that she doesn't want to associate herself with a campaign she sees as dishonest, but the issue itself hasn't changed and the opposing campaign is just as bad natured as the one she's left.
Yup - lets face it, both campaigns have been crap. But she's spent months arguing a pro leave case which I assume she still believes in. So why not disassociate with vote leave and campaign independently. It seems like a totally dishonest position to take (the cabinet reshuffle will be interesting...)
She's saying that the campaign caused her to rethink, i.e. the arguments advanced by the europhile side were stronger. And her initial eurosceptic position was a reaction to disappointment with the renegotiation. She's pretty honest about that.
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
Pity, I thought Sarah Wollaston could go a long way. It is not as if there are not plenty of people on both sides, but particularly Leave who have made it clear that they do not agree with everything that leave spokesmen have said.
I was hoping to but saying just a couple of days ago that the UK would be better out (see up thread) and now crossing the floor, as it were, will totally destroy her credibility for years to come. Every Time she pronounces on something her political opponents will bring this up. Career suicide I should have thought.
Still I didn't manage to get any money on her as the next Conservative Leader (she did look attractive at 66/1), but who amongst the younger ladies is left. Priti Patel I have at 20/1, but that is a heart bet (I think she would actually be very good but I doubt the massed ranks of the Conservative MPs will go for her). After her I am struggling to see even a viable candidate, much less one that might actually be able to lead the Party.
Surprised Wollaston has changed her vote, I thought she was just quitting the campaign. I guess she was genuinely floating and this tipped her over the other side.
O/T, but is she any relation to William Hyde Wollaston, the 18/19th C scientist?
Or more likely she was always intending to make this SHOCK SWITCH.
I think we were all rather surprised when she said she was supporting Leave.
Well we can all play that vile game can't we. I feel ashamed at what this country has become, with a remain campaign pitching itself at the worst of human instincts, inciting fear at every opportunity. And as for the Woolaston stunt then maybe this is quite telling what she told the Express back in February:
“I am in love with the possibilities of the EU but can no longer ignore the grinding reality of the institution.”
No doubt wan*ing off to the possibilities of an EU army, being on the hock for more Eurozone bailouts, more EU contributions to pay for the migration crisis Sarah? Something to have a titillation about for sure!
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
I'm not convinced Cameron is an electoral asset any longer.
And made a fool of herself. Her words will be thrown back at her, mercilessly. This is TPD behaviour.
As luck would have it, if you can call it luck, John Nott quitting should cancel this out to some extent.
Very odd. She was evidently quite a staunch eurosceptic and yet decided to somehow defect from one campaign telling fibs to another campaign telling fibs.
Why would one change their vote in a referendum based on the details of the campaign itself, rather than the substantive issue of whether they believe that Britian should be in the EU? I can understand that she doesn't want to associate herself with a campaign she sees as dishonest, but the issue itself hasn't changed and the opposing campaign is just as bad natured as the one she's left.
Yes indeed. Switching campaigns, rather than merely disavowing the crap Leave one, would seem to suggest she has been swayed by the crap Remain campaign, not just put off by the Leave one. Which given MPs have been making the same old arguments for years, and she responded to the initial pleas from Remain negatively, is very strange, since nothing new has come up really, just variations on the standard arguments.
Surprised Wollaston has changed her vote, I thought she was just quitting the campaign. I guess she was genuinely floating and this tipped her over the other side.
O/T, but is she any relation to William Hyde Wollaston, the 18/19th C scientist?
Or more likely she was always intending to make this SHOCK SWITCH.
I think we were all rather surprised when she said she was supporting Leave.
Corbyn has agreed to a Sky tv debate in front of a young audience on Monday 20th at 6.00pm before the England match. It is reported that he will attack Boris, Gove, IDS and Farage from the left in a big way. Seems the campaign is hotting up.
On a much more pleasant subject I had the pleasure of seeing the 'Flying Scotsman' in full steam pulling an excursion along side Colwyn Bay promenade today on her way to Chester. Wonderful child hood memories of seeing her daily pass our classroom at Berwick Grammar School in the mid fifties
How can you refer to the Flying ScotsMAN as 'her'? 'It', surely?
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
I'm not convinced Cameron is an electoral asset any longer.
Not sure it matters that much, since he won't be standing at the next election!
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
I'm not convinced Cameron is an electoral asset any longer.
He might be on course to win a nationwide referendum, where he was the front man.
Ooh, a possible defection. Not sure how this works for a referendum though, she's been quite forthright about her Leave views, contrary to her party's leadership - if she turns up tomorrow morning going on about "Nigel Farage's Little England" she'll just look stupid.
I'm quite happy to give lessons to Leavers on how to deal with defectors.
I was the model of restraint and rationality when Mark Reckless defected to UKIP.
LOL. That TPD, we remember!
Favourite moment last May, Reckless or Balls?
Reckless. I've always kinda like Ed Balls on some levels.
Shows how brutal politics is. On May 7th last year at 9.59pm Ed Balls was thinking he might be Chancellor of the Exchequer in the morning. turns out he ended up being unemployed in the morning.
Yes, politics can be a brutal game. I think Balls got the bigger cheer at the party I was at that morning, but thinking back Reckless was the one we were most happy to see shoved off the green benches on his fat sorry arse.
I know someone who was at Matthew Parker Street on election night, he said the biggest cheers of the night were the following
1) Reckless losing 2) Cable losing 3) Nuneaton result 4) Ed Balls losing
Counterfactual - Balls led Labour Party might be 20 points ahead in the polls right now.
Balls lost his seat for a reason
He was a loss to Labour and the country. Like every politician he talked bollocks more often than not but he has a brain and they are in very short supply at the top table of the Labour Party.
He was Cabinet rank yes but he did not have the charisma or appeal needed in a leader
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
I'm not convinced Cameron is an electoral asset any longer.
He might be on course to win a nationwide referendum, where he was the front man.
Not bad for someone who isn't an electoral asset.
Ditch the spin. You know his ratings as well as I do.
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
Cameron would be a fool to even stand in a confidence motion; he's said he won't be fighting the next election anyway. Would grind government to a halt.
Corbyn has agreed to a Sky tv debate in front of a young audience on Monday 20th at 6.00pm before the England match. It is reported that he will attack Boris, Gove, IDS and Farage from the left in a big way. Seems the campaign is hotting up.
On a much more pleasant subject I had the pleasure of seeing the 'Flying Scotsman' in full steam pulling an excursion along side Colwyn Bay promenade today on her way to Chester. Wonderful child hood memories of seeing her daily pass our classroom at Berwick Grammar School in the mid fifties
How can you refer to the Flying ScotsMAN as 'her'? 'It', surely?
Good point but ever since I was a teenager I referred to the Flying Scotsman as her for some reason
Well we can all play that vile game can't we. I feel ashamed at what this country has become, with a remain campaign pitching itself at the worst of human instincts, inciting fear at every opportunity. And as for the Woolaston stunt then maybe this is quite telling what she told the Express back in February:
“I am in love with the possibilities of the EU but can no longer ignore the grinding reality of the institution.”
No doubt wan*ing off to the possibilities of an EU army, being on the hock for more Eurozone bailouts, more EU contributions to pay for the migration crisis Sarah? Something to have a titillation about for sure!
I am still trying to reconcile myself to the idea that the English media are starting to talk themselves into believing that England have a chance again. Hope truly trumps experience.
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
3) Since his credibility, fairly or not, will have been shot, he will have been persuaded to move up his timetable for departure in any case, so there's less need to topple him in such an immediate and public fashion,
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
I'm not convinced Cameron is an electoral asset any longer.
He might be on course to win a nationwide referendum, where he was the front man.
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
Cameron would be a fool to even stand in a confidence motion; he's said he won't be fighting the next election anyway. Would grind government to a halt.
So 50 MPs should be able to ride roughshod over 280 MPs and 11 million voters.
He's going to have to go, and sue unless there is a police investigation in which case he will just have to go.
He just got sent down.
The Patrick Rock case is more disturbing, from the reports the images he had were no worse than stills from a certain Sia music video. Hence the naming and shaming but no custodial sentence. To me the naming and shaming for someone with a public profile is a very harsh punishment already.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3SpXXYTHY
Estimates I have seen put the decrease in immigration post-Brexit at around 100,000, so leaving 200,000 and change. That is of course a huge drop in EU immigration, but it's still 200,000.
Shades of £350m/£250m about it.
Not that a Leaver would mention it, while Remain, as you say, can't.
No credibility.
She has zero credibility. And no integrity.
Farage is an MEP. In a parliament that cannot propose legislation.
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Dr Wollaston said she thought there would be a "Brexit penalty" on the NHS because leaving the EU would hit Britain's economy.
"The consensus now is there would be a huge economic shock if we voted to leave," she said. "Undoubtedly, the thing that's most going to influence the financial health of the NHS is the background economy. So I think there would be a Brexit penalty."
Or not. Rant away...
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/740655517412954112
But, it's hard to see how someone can change their mind in four days, whilst retaining any degree of moral integrity.
Should I reply and tell him he is wrong?
O/T, but is she any relation to William Hyde Wollaston, the 18/19th C scientist?
And of course the navy was needed in full force shortly afterwards which shows you can't trust experts.
A shame, as competency issues aside, when they are replaced I would prefer not too big a change of direction from at present, whereas now there is likely to be more significant culls and changes as the policies and brand are toxified (among the Tory base that is).
It's a pretty devastating interview, and she comes across well. Few people will have heard of her but headlines like
Tory health-check boss defects to Remain over NHS
might resonate
It's not the past week, it's been over a month now...
Robert is my MP.
Give over - no one on PB gives two hoots whether you use 'xenophobia' or 'triskaidekaphobia'.
On the other hand if we remain they see it above 300K per year and they think that's a good thing.
The UK government post brexit could set any policy it wants. They would actually have to put in some border controls though.
Meanwhile a new government appointment:
https://twitter.com/HouseOfTraitors/status/740651425596854272
On a much more pleasant subject I had the pleasure of seeing the 'Flying Scotsman' in full steam pulling an excursion along side Colwyn Bay promenade today on her way to Chester. Wonderful child hood memories of seeing her daily pass our classroom at Berwick Grammar School in the mid fifties
I've had a fairly low opinion of her for a while, this has confirmed it. It's a planned wrecking move. A minor one, but it's the required emergency squirrel.
The charming face of Remain.
She's saying that the campaign caused her to rethink, i.e. the arguments advanced by the europhile side were stronger. And her initial eurosceptic position was a reaction to disappointment with the renegotiation. She's pretty honest about that.
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
He's going to have to go, and sue unless there is a police investigation in which case he will just have to go.
Still I didn't manage to get any money on her as the next Conservative Leader (she did look attractive at 66/1), but who amongst the younger ladies is left. Priti Patel I have at 20/1, but that is a heart bet (I think she would actually be very good but I doubt the massed ranks of the Conservative MPs will go for her). After her I am struggling to see even a viable candidate, much less one that might actually be able to lead the Party.
Wollaston has to be a sleeper agent for Remain.
No one is that stupid.
But, surely, it make The Times?
No:
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/740658176106848257
“I am in love with the possibilities of the EU but can no longer ignore the grinding reality of the institution.”
No doubt wan*ing off to the possibilities of an EU army, being on the hock for more Eurozone bailouts, more EU contributions to pay for the migration crisis Sarah? Something to have a titillation about for sure!
She will never be trusted again.
Not bad for someone who isn't an electoral asset.
Right, logging off again. G'night.
Brilliant.
The Patrick Rock case is more disturbing, from the reports the images he had were no worse than stills from a certain Sia music video. Hence the naming and shaming but no custodial sentence. To me the naming and shaming for someone with a public profile is a very harsh punishment already.
Deliberate scare tactics, what with the voter registration extension?
He's wrong too I guess...