The Wollaston incident is an odd one. If it was a nuanced leave changing to a nuanced remain, I could understand it, but it seems to be a complete 180 degree about-face over a really rather minor incident. Has she been nobbled by the whips perhaps? Or was this all pre-planned? If so, can we expect a string of these over the next couple of weeks? Or am I seeing conspiracies where none exist?
I think this is a one off. She is very independently minded and has huge integrity. She clearly disagreed with the figure of 350 million and it's connection with the NHS. It is also likely that she was influenced by the overwhelming economic arguments.
Given what she was saying only a few days ago, as quoted up-thread, I think the idea that she has huge integrity is perhaps a little weak. In fact she has actually proved she cannot be trusted from one day to the next, just another mendacious politician.
I wonder if she treats her patients with the same cavalier attitude that she does her voters.
It actually takes courage and integrity to admit you are wrong and she will be aware of the damage this will cause Boris and Gove as it will come up everytime they are on tv or in the debates. Not a good look for leave and I am sure she will be heavily 'trolled'
Catching up with it now on iPlayer. Osborne not doing too badly. Will be interesting to read through the PB archives (what a life I lead) to see the reaction, and how wrong I am
Osborne was so crap, the price on Remain has collapsed from 74% to erm 74%
Well we can all play that vile game can't we. I feel ashamed at what this country has become, with a remain campaign pitching itself at the worst of human instincts, inciting fear at every opportunity. And as for the Woolaston stunt then maybe this is quite telling what she told the Express back in February:
“I am in love with the possibilities of the EU but can no longer ignore the grinding reality of the institution.”
No doubt wan*ing off to the possibilities of an EU army, being on the hock for more Eurozone bailouts, more EU contributions to pay for the migration crisis Sarah? Something to have a titillation about for sure!
I am still trying to reconcile myself to the idea that the English media are starting to talk themselves into believing that England have a chance again. Hope truly trumps experience.
I'll be paying virtually no attention to Euro 2016 until the 24th February. We can all name 5 or 6 of the 8 teams to be eliminated in the group stages. It only gets interesting at the knock out stages. They should have gone the full hog and made it like the world cup format of 32 teams, and cut down on many meaningless qualifying games just to get to the tournament stage.
Mr Hunchman, it will all be over a long time before 24th February.
Oh god, too many long nights recently spent following the money trail over 788 790 Finchley Road!
One of these days you might elaborate on what goes on in this mysterious building on Finchley Road.
Lizards form companies and then sell them on to other lizards.
Well we can all play that vile game can't we. I feel ashamed at what this country has become, with a remain campaign pitching itself at the worst of human instincts, inciting fear at every opportunity. And as for the Woolaston stunt then maybe this is quite telling what she told the Express back in February:
“I am in love with the possibilities of the EU but can no longer ignore the grinding reality of the institution.”
No doubt wan*ing off to the possibilities of an EU army, being on the hock for more Eurozone bailouts, more EU contributions to pay for the migration crisis Sarah? Something to have a titillation about for sure!
I am still trying to reconcile myself to the idea that the English media are starting to talk themselves into believing that England have a chance again. Hope truly trumps experience.
I'll be paying virtually no attention to Euro 2016 until the 24th February. We can all name 5 or 6 of the 8 teams to be eliminated in the group stages. It only gets interesting at the knock out stages. They should have gone the full hog and made it like the world cup format of 32 teams, and cut down on many meaningless qualifying games just to get to the tournament stage.
Mr Hunchman, it will all be over a long time before 24th February.
Oh god, too many long nights recently spent following the money trail over 788 790 Finchley Road!
One of these days you might elaborate on what goes on in this mysterious building on Finchley Road.
Lizards form companies and then sell them on to other lizards.
Yes three bags full Mr primitive reptilian brain!
Paperwork is boring, in a country where many people have an attention span of nano-seconds, its no surprise that this fraud, theft and money laundering has perpetuated as far as it has with people as ignorant as you.
Sometimes reporting restrictions are in place, is often the case in sex related crimes.
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
@RobDotHutton: Today in Brexit Conspiracy Theories: * Govt crashed website to give kids more time to register; * No10 put MPs in Vote Leave to defect back
Well we can all play that vile game can't we. I feel ashamed at what this country has become, with a remain campaign pitching itself at the worst of human instincts, inciting fear at every opportunity. And as for the Woolaston stunt then maybe this is quite telling what she told the Express back in February:
“I am in love with the possibilities of the EU but can no longer ignore the grinding reality of the institution.”
No doubt wan*ing off to the possibilities of an EU army, being on the hock for more Eurozone bailouts, more EU contributions to pay for the migration crisis Sarah? Something to have a titillation about for sure!
Well we can all play that vile game can't we. I feel ashamed at what this country has become, with a remain campaign pitching itself at the worst of human instincts, inciting fear at every opportunity. And as for the Woolaston stunt then maybe this is quite telling what she told the Express back in February:
“I am in love with the possibilities of the EU but can no longer ignore the grinding reality of the institution.”
No doubt wan*ing off to the possibilities of an EU army, being on the hock for more Eurozone bailouts, more EU contributions to pay for the migration crisis Sarah? Something to have a titillation about for sure!
Didn't Cameron's aide get charged with child sex crimes?
Sometimes reporting restrictions are in place, is often the case in sex related crimes.
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
That's harsh on his new fellow inmates. "Less likely to be shanked" perhaps?
@bbclaurak: The other intriguing thing about Wollaston is she suggests other colleagues might be having second thoughts - on both sides
This could be hilarious. Hysterical Brexiteers lauding folk they were condemning yesterday...
If we are about to play musical campaigns the voters are going to get confused. Farage goes remain because he finds Boris a flipper whilst Osbourne swaps to remain?
Sometimes reporting restrictions are in place, is often the case in sex related crimes.
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
No, there was something in the papers before about him and sex crimes, I remember it...
I bet if you mentioned the names Sarah Woolaston and Steward Jackson outside of Totnes and Peterborough respectively, you'd probably get about 0.5% of a name recognition if you're lucky, with over 98% giving you a blank look or worse.
I'm a political anorak, you are too for being on here, nearly all of the public aren't. But heck, aren't we proud to be in such a knowledgeable minority?!
Sometimes reporting restrictions are in place, is often the case in sex related crimes.
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
No, there was something in the papers before about him and sex crimes, I remember it...
Isn't it often the case that the initial prosecution is announced, beyond which point there is no reporting? I could easily be mistaken though.
Vote Leave arguing amongst themselves whether it is £350m or £200m seems really poor...
... for Remain who look bad (either way) while this is in the news.
You do have a point, but it also makes Leave look innumerate.
Innumerate?
Take a look at the Tories' immigration commitment; makes Leave look like financial accountants.
Exxon's accountants perhaps. I am first in the line to criticise the duplicitous tens of thousands pledge but that was duplicitous and this is politics. Worse than that is to look incompetent.
Interestingly, Gove was on TV a few days ago saying that it would be tens of thousands of immigrants after Brexit, which is just as duplicitous. Unlike Cameron he won't be called out on it until after we Brexit, if we do. Cameron has a big immigration problem. Remain has a big Cameron problem in that he seems to be fronting the thing single-handedly. Therefore Remain has a Cameron-sized immigration problem.
It was idiotic from the start.
Estimates I have seen put the decrease in immigration post-Brexit at around 100,000, so leaving 200,000 and change. That is of course a huge drop in EU immigration, but it's still 200,000.
Shades of £350m/£250m about it.
Not that a Leaver would mention it, while Remain, as you say, can't.
Actually, the OECD are the only people I've seen estimates from and they think it could go down by anywhere from 100K less per year to less than 100K per year.
On the other hand if we remain they see it above 300K per year and they think that's a good thing.
The UK government post brexit could set any policy it wants. They would actually have to put in some border controls though.
Vote Leave arguing amongst themselves whether it is £350m or £200m seems really poor...
... for Remain who look bad (either way) while this is in the news.
You do have a point, but it also makes Leave look innumerate.
Innumerate?
Take a look at the Tories' immigration commitment; makes Leave look like financial accountants.
Exxon's accountants perhaps. I am first in the line to criticise the duplicitous tens of thousands pledge but that was duplicitous and this is politics. Worse than that is to look incompetent.
Interestingly, Gove was on TV a few days ago saying that it would be tens of thousands of immigrants after Brexit, which is just as duplicitous. Unlike Cameron he won't be called out on it until after we Brexit, if we do. Cameron has a big immigration problem. Remain has a big Cameron problem in that he seems to be fronting the thing single-handedly. Therefore Remain has a Cameron-sized immigration problem.
It was idiotic from the start.
Estimates I have seen put the decrease in immigration post-Brexit at around 100,000, so leaving 200,000 and change. That is of course a huge drop in EU immigration, but it's still 200,000.
Shades of £350m/£250m about it.
Not that a Leaver would mention it, while Remain, as you say, can't.
Actually, the OECD are the only people I've seen estimates from and they think it could go down by anywhere from 100K less per year to less than 100K per year.
On the other hand if we remain they see it above 300K per year and they think that's a good thing.
The UK government post brexit could set any policy it wants. They would actually have to put in some border controls though.
Just drinking a bottle of Transylvanian Pinot Grigio white which is surprisingly good. Don't think I've ever drank any Romanian wine before. And hopefully I'll still be importing it on the 24th June free of any tariffs outside the EU.
Sometimes reporting restrictions are in place, is often the case in sex related crimes.
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
That's harsh on his new fellow inmates. "Less likely to be shanked" perhaps?
Good detail from @TSE. I can't imagine a nonce gets a very nice time of it in jail, can well understand that for everyone's safety they'd want to have them safely locked up with all the other scumbag kiddy fiddlers before they announce it.
Sometimes reporting restrictions are in place, is often the case in sex related crimes.
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
No, there was something in the papers before about him and sex crimes, I remember it...
Isn't it often the case that the initial prosecution is announced, beyond which point there is no reporting? I could easily be mistaken though.
Well, yes, but I can't see the justification for leaving the press release till today.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
Personal attack yes.
On which topic, I'm sorry TSE for the other night. Feelings are running high over this but that's no excuse. Sorry.
Actually I've never known such division in the nation over something. I bet if Cameron had his time again he wouldn't have gone down this route. Or do people think that because he 'stands for precisely nothing' this is his way of passing the time?
Vote Leave arguing amongst themselves whether it is £350m or £200m seems really poor...
... for Remain who look bad (either way) while this is in the news.
You do have a point, but it also makes Leave look innumerate.
Innumerate?
Take a look at the Tories' immigration commitment; makes Leave look like financial accountants.
Exxon's accountants perhaps. I am first in the line to criticise the duplicitous tens of thousands pledge but that was duplicitous and this is politics. Worse than that is to look incompetent.
Interestingly, Gove was on TV a few days ago saying that it would be tens of thousands of immigrants after Brexit, which is just as duplicitous. Unlike Cameron he won't be called out on it until after we Brexit, if we do. Cameron has a big immigration problem. Remain has a big Cameron problem in that he seems to be fronting the thing single-handedly. Therefore Remain has a Cameron-sized immigration problem.
It was idiotic from the start.
Estimates I have seen put the decrease in immigration post-Brexit at around 100,000, so leaving 200,000 and change. That is of course a huge drop in EU immigration, but it's still 200,000.
Shades of £350m/£250m about it.
Not that a Leaver would mention it, while Remain, as you say, can't.
Actually, the OECD are the only people I've seen estimates from and they think it could go down by anywhere from 100K less per year to less than 100K per year.
On the other hand if we remain they see it above 300K per year and they think that's a good thing.
The UK government post brexit could set any policy it wants. They would actually have to put in some border controls though.
Sometimes reporting restrictions are in place, is often the case in sex related crimes.
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
That's harsh on his new fellow inmates. "Less likely to be shanked" perhaps?
Good detail from @TSE. I can't imagine a nonce gets a very nice time of it in jail, can well understand that for everyone's safety they'd want to have them safely locked up with all the other scumbag kiddy fiddlers before they announce it.
I know in their initial inductions, they are told not to tell their fellow prisoners what they are in for, but come up with another reason.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
A fairly accurate description for the Clown Prince.
Doesn't invalidate him as a serious politician who was a twice successful mayor of London . He may have the persona of a buffoon but that doesn't make a crap politician , name calling really is schoolyard behaviour
While he's brought it mostly on himself, isn't that piece just a long winded way of saying 'Cameron should be for Leave, not Remain'? He could, in many's view, do less to his reputation and party if he acted differently in the campaign than he has, but it's the fact of him being Remain at all which it regards as the biggest problem.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
Personal attack yes.
On which topic, I'm sorry TSE for the other night. Feelings are running high over this but that's no excuse. Sorry.
Actually I've never known such division in the nation over something. I bet if Cameron had his time again he wouldn't have gone down this route. Or do people think that because he 'stands for precisely nothing' this is his way of passing the time?
I've supported Cameron since 2005; I have voted Tory at every election since 1974. Overall he has been a good leader and PM. But he has self-destructed over the EU Referendum. If he had to hold it he should have kept a dignified distance, like Harold Wilson in 1975. Ultimately he has placed tactics above strategy and may reap a bitter harvest.
While he's brought it mostly on himself, isn't that piece just a long winded way of saying 'Cameron should be for Leave, not Remain'? He could, in many's view, do less to his reputation and party if he acted differently in the campaign than he has, but it's the fact of him being Remain at all which it regards as the biggest problem.
It's surely more than that? No-one seriously thinks Cameron has conducted this appropriately? That's the point. The patronising project fear has brought out the worst in him.
@SamCoatesTimes: Leave MPs considering a post-referendum letter saying David Cameron should stay PM. Robert Syms, a leave MP, canvassing support
There was no appetite for a pre-referendum letter from leave MPs on Cameron's future, I'm told.
Downing Street have nothing to do with this, they insist.
Hmmmmmmm.
Robert is my MP.
Reading between the lines, I think there's a consensus emerging that Leave Tories will look like numpties if Remain win and they try and topple Cameron
1) One it will look undemocratic, and make them look like sore losers
2) Dave will win any confidence vote
3) Since his credibility, fairly or not, will have been shot, he will have been persuaded to move up his timetable for departure in any case, so there's less need to topple him in such an immediate and public fashion,
A dozen rebels can turn him into the lamest of lame ducks any time they like. John Major had it easy with his Bastards compared to what DC is going to have to put up with in the next couple of years.
But we are not in the same situation as we were when Major faced his awkward squad during the fourth term of a very tired and grumpy Conservative Government under a second PM and Leader. Cameron has already stated that he will stand down before the next GE, and he will do so after having delivered the first EU referendum in the UK in forty years. These rebels would be clearly damaging their own party's future election prospects, as well as those of their own chosen future leader.
We also have a very large group of newly elected Conservative MPs who would like to see their careers continue, and for the Conservatives to win outright majority against this lame duck Labour opposition. Seriously, whatever the outcome of the EU Referendum, surely they realise that they will not be easily forgiven by the wider party and Conservative voters if they cost a post Cameron Conservative party the next GE.
While he's brought it mostly on himself, isn't that piece just a long winded way of saying 'Cameron should be for Leave, not Remain'? He could, in many's view, do less to his reputation and party if he acted differently in the campaign than he has, but it's the fact of him being Remain at all which it regards as the biggest problem.
He should have never fronted the campaign would have helped him.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
If I did a PB thread header calling Boris Johnson the serial philanderer, that would be unacceptable too.
Though are there question marks over Boris' suitability to be Prime Minister given his alleged shenanigans? Or does it not matter these days? Perhaps it doesn't.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
Personal attack yes.
Actually I've never known such division in the nation over something. I bet if Cameron had his time again he wouldn't have gone down this route. Or do people think that because he 'stands for precisely nothing' this is his way of passing the time?
The route was unavoidable. When there is such division it demands an outlet, and large scale dislike of the EU coupled with the smaller but expanding core of unsettling intense Leavers meant the issue would come to ahead eventually, if not now in this way then some other way.
I bet if you mentioned the names Sarah Woolaston and Steward Jackson outside of Totnes and Peterborough respectively, you'd probably get about 0.5% of a name recognition if you're lucky, with over 98% giving you a blank look or worse.
Correct.
The biggest thing that has happened in the last 24 hours is Cameron insulting the English, which he can add to his smirking whilst Obama was here. It will not go down well.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
If I did a PB thread header calling Boris Johnson the serial philanderer, that would be unacceptable too.
Though are there question marks over Boris' suitability to be Prime Minister given his alleged shenanigans? Or does it not matter these days? Perhaps it doesn't.
There's a school of thought that says, a man who betrays his wife, will betray his country.
I'm from the school of thought, men love sex, men also love their country.
Is a non issue for me, as people probably have worked out, I'm not a puritan
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
Personal attack yes.
On which topic, I'm sorry TSE for the other night. Feelings are running high over this but that's no excuse. Sorry.
Actually I've never known such division in the nation over something. I bet if Cameron had his time again he wouldn't have gone down this route. Or do people think that because he 'stands for precisely nothing' this is his way of passing the time?
I've supported Cameron since 2005; I have voted Tory at every election since 1974. Overall he has been a good leader and PM. But he has self-destructed over the EU Referendum. If he had to hold it he should have kept a dignified distance, like Harold Wilson in 1975. Ultimately he has placed tactics above strategy and may reap a bitter harvest.
I agree. The whole tone of this referendum was set when he put the Cabinet under purdah for two weeks whilst campaigning for Remain. The Project Fear has been simply appalling but it's also good that the public soon saw through it. People power wins through, always.
Sometimes reporting restrictions are in place, is often the case in sex related crimes.
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
That's harsh on his new fellow inmates. "Less likely to be shanked" perhaps?
Good detail from @TSE. I can't imagine a nonce gets a very nice time of it in jail, can well understand that for everyone's safety they'd want to have them safely locked up with all the other scumbag kiddy fiddlers before they announce it.
I know in their initial inductions, they are told not to tell their fellow prisoners what they are in for, but come up with another reason.
I remember hearing that nonces and informers were the two groups of prisoners who got the worst time of it inside. Any other crime was okay in the eyes of the other inmates, can well believe they said to their peers they were in for something else. One assumes there will be no copies of tomorrow's Daily Mirror going to that jail.
Vote Leave arguing amongst themselves whether it is £350m or £200m seems really poor...
... for Remain who look bad (either way) while this is in the news.
You do have a point, but it also makes Leave look innumerate.
Innumerate?
Take a look at the Tories' immigration commitment; makes Leave look like financial accountants.
Exxon's accountants perhaps. I am first in the line to criticise the duplicitous tens of thousands pledge but that was duplicitous and this is politics. Worse than that is to look incompetent.
Interestingly, Gove was on TV a few days ago saying that it would be tens of thousands of immigrants after Brexit, which is just as duplicitous. Unlike Cameron he won't be called out on it until after we Brexit, if we do. Cameron has a big immigration problem. Remain has a big Cameron problem in that he seems to be fronting the thing single-handedly. Therefore Remain has a Cameron-sized immigration problem.
It was idiotic from the start.
Estimates I have seen put the decrease in immigration post-Brexit at around 100,000, so leaving 200,000 and change. That is of course a huge drop in EU immigration, but it's still 200,000.
Shades of £350m/£250m about it.
Not that a Leaver would mention it, while Remain, as you say, can't.
Actually, the OECD are the only people I've seen estimates from and they think it could go down by anywhere from 100K less per year to less than 100K per year.
On the other hand if we remain they see it above 300K per year and they think that's a good thing.
The UK government post brexit could set any policy it wants. They would actually have to put in some border controls though.
Given non EU immigration is 155,000 per year, it's hard to see how it'll get lower than that
According to the May 2016 ONS figures there were 277 000 non-EU immigrants in 2015, and 188 000 when looking at the net figure. Obviously, short of deportation, we can only influence arrivals not departures.
Presumably many of the EU migrants (French financiers, German bankers, Greek doctors, Portuguese nurses etc) would either be permitted under the new points system, or substituted by other nationalities with the same skills. This would be a fair number as the employment rate of EU migrants is high, perhaps 60 000 to 70 000. This would make for net immigration of about a quarter of a million.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
Personal attack yes.
On which topic, I'm sorry TSE for the other night. Feelings are running high over this but that's no excuse. Sorry.
Actually I've never known such division in the nation over something. I bet if Cameron had his time again he wouldn't have gone down this route. Or do people think that because he 'stands for precisely nothing' this is his way of passing the time?
I've supported Cameron since 2005; I have voted Tory at every election since 1974. Overall he has been a good leader and PM. But he has self-destructed over the EU Referendum. If he had to hold it he should have kept a dignified distance, like Harold Wilson in 1975. Ultimately he has placed tactics above strategy and may reap a bitter harvest.
I agree. The whole tone of this referendum was set when he put the Cabinet under purdah for two weeks whilst campaigning for Remain. The Project Fear has been simply appalling but it's also good that the public soon saw through it. People power wins through, always.
It started before that, when the pig-in-a-poke renegotiation was sold as the best thing since sliced bread. Add me to the list of those who have been fans of DC since 2005, until February this year. My postal vote for Leave was collected by the courier this afternoon.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
Personal attack yes.
Actually I've never known such division in the nation over something. I bet if Cameron had his time again he wouldn't have gone down this route. Or do people think that because he 'stands for precisely nothing' this is his way of passing the time?
The route was unavoidable. When there is such division it demands an outlet, and large scale dislike of the EU coupled with the smaller but expanding core of unsettling intense Leavers meant the issue would come to ahead eventually, if not now in this way then some other way.
I agree. When people say "lance the boil" they should not be surprised to see a lot of noxious pus.
While he's brought it mostly on himself, isn't that piece just a long winded way of saying 'Cameron should be for Leave, not Remain'? He could, in many's view, do less to his reputation and party if he acted differently in the campaign than he has, but it's the fact of him being Remain at all which it regards as the biggest problem.
He should have never fronted the campaign would have helped him.
I'm sure it would have. But that wouldn't erase the problem of not being for Leave. It's a matter of degree of harm in that circumstance.
Personally, although some people think he went in complacent, I think the opposite - if he thought it would be a comfortable win he'd have been more inclined to not front the campaign. As it is, knowing if Leave won he'd be gone and not thinking Remain had it in the bag, he calculated he couldn't sit back for the sake of party unity later, he needed to go hard and try to mop up the mess later by ensuring he was still there to do so.
While he's brought it mostly on himself, isn't that piece just a long winded way of saying 'Cameron should be for Leave, not Remain'? He could, in many's view, do less to his reputation and party if he acted differently in the campaign than he has, but it's the fact of him being Remain at all which it regards as the biggest problem.
It's surely more than that? No-one seriously thinks Cameron has conducted this appropriately? That's the point. The patronising project fear has brought out the worst in him.
My point was he could have said not a damn thing and he would still be attacked for causing himself and the party reputational damage, because it is his being Remain which is deemed to be causing that. The manner of how he has conducted himself has made it a lot worse than it could have been, yes, but if the starting point, as it clearly is, is 'being for remain damages Cameron', then he would always face some.
I'm not trying to dispute with (in particular but not limited to) Tory Leavers that his campaign has been disgraceful - I'm not offended by it personally, but then I'm a Leaver, not a Tory Leaver - merely that the option before him was not 'Immense damage to reputation according to press and Leave vs no damage', but 'immense damage vs damage'.
He may well have made the wrong choice in strategy, but I feel that slight distinction is necessary to understanding why it has seemed rational to him, given all these 'why is cameron doing this?' type remarks.
People are acting as though it makes no sense for him to act as he has, but I think it does. It may be based on faulty assumptions, be executed poorly, and has blown up in his face, but it wasn't without reason, which is the implication one gets sometimes.
And Major calling Boris a court jester wasn't a personal attack?
Personal attack yes.
Actually I've never known such division in the nation over something. I bet if Cameron had his time again he wouldn't have gone down this route. Or do people think that because he 'stands for precisely nothing' this is his way of passing the time?
The route was unavoidable. When there is such division it demands an outlet, and large scale dislike of the EU coupled with the smaller but expanding core of unsettling intense Leavers meant the issue would come to ahead eventually, if not now in this way then some other way.
I agree. When people say "lance the boil" they should not be surprised to see a lot of noxious pus.
That's hard. Even I would balk at describing the Europhiles and the EU as puss filled boils. Noxious perhaps at times but I think you are being overly critical of Remain with that label. .
Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
Hunchman, I told you the other night to stop talking about Finchley Road, your posts are going to get Mike into trouble.
That instruction is still in force.
I'm happy for any of the companies to take me to court that I am alleging of fraud, theft and money laundering. They won't because my sources and myself have access to forensic documents that would hold up in a court of law. So the risk is with me, not with Mike thank you very much. And it is a risk that I'm delighted to take in order to get the vile corrupt $cum exposed over this with all the damage that they are doing to millions and millions of peoples innocent lives, not just in the UK but around the world.
Hunchman, I told you the other night to stop talking about Finchley Road, your posts are going to get Mike into trouble.
That instruction is still in force.
I'm happy for any of the companies to take me to court that I am alleging of fraud, theft and money laundering. They won't because my sources and myself have access to forensic documents that would hold up in a court of law. So the risk is with me, not with Mike thank you very much. And it is a risk that I'm delighted to take in order to get the vile corrupt $cum exposed over this with all the damage that they are doing to millions and millions of peoples innocent lives, not just in the UK but around the world.
Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
You could be right,never rated johnson as a good debater.
Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.
And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.
Hunchman, I told you the other night to stop talking about Finchley Road, your posts are going to get Mike into trouble.
That instruction is still in force.
I'm happy for any of the companies to take me to court that I am alleging of fraud, theft and money laundering. They won't because my sources and myself have access to forensic documents that would hold up in a court of law. So the risk is with me, not with Mike thank you very much. And it is a risk that I'm delighted to take in order to get the vile corrupt $cum exposed over this with all the damage that they are doing to millions and millions of peoples innocent lives, not just in the UK but around the world.
Nope, they'll go after Mike.
If you want to discuss it, it won't be on PB.
I'm responsible for what I write. You can look at the allegations backed up with hard forensic evidence over the internet and you can also check that none of us are being brought to the courts to defend ourselves. I would suggest that is because those we are accusing are now wetting their panties in a state of panic over this getting into the mainstream. And when it does get into the mainstream, which is a matter of time, but not it, don't say I didn't tell you so.
Hunchman, I told you the other night to stop talking about Finchley Road, your posts are going to get Mike into trouble.
That instruction is still in force.
I'm happy for any of the companies to take me to court that I am alleging of fraud, theft and money laundering. They won't because my sources and myself have access to forensic documents that would hold up in a court of law. So the risk is with me, not with Mike thank you very much. And it is a risk that I'm delighted to take in order to get the vile corrupt $cum exposed over this with all the damage that they are doing to millions and millions of peoples innocent lives, not just in the UK but around the world.
Nope, they'll go after Mike.
If you want to discuss it, it won't be on PB.
I'm responsible for what I write. You can look at the allegations backed up with hard forensic evidence over the internet and you can also check that none of us are being brought to the courts to defend ourselves. I would suggest that is because those we are accusing are now wetting their panties in a state of panic over this getting into the mainstream. And when it does get into the mainstream, which is a matter of time, but not it, don't say I didn't tell you so.
And Mike is responsible for what he hosts/publishes, which includes your musings.
Hunchman, I told you the other night to stop talking about Finchley Road, your posts are going to get Mike into trouble.
That instruction is still in force.
I'm happy for any of the companies to take me to court that I am alleging of fraud, theft and money laundering. They won't because my sources and myself have access to forensic documents that would hold up in a court of law. So the risk is with me, not with Mike thank you very much. And it is a risk that I'm delighted to take in order to get the vile corrupt $cum exposed over this with all the damage that they are doing to millions and millions of peoples innocent lives, not just in the UK but around the world.
Nope, they'll go after Mike.
If you want to discuss it, it won't be on PB.
I'm responsible for what I write. You can look at the allegations backed up with hard forensic evidence over the internet and you can also check that none of us are being brought to the courts to defend ourselves. I would suggest that is because those we are accusing are now wetting their panties in a state of panic over this getting into the mainstream. And when it does get into the mainstream, which is a matter of time, but not it, don't say I didn't tell you so.
Mike is responsible for the comments that appear on this site.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, no more discussions by you about Finchley Road
Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.
And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.
Your help is much appreciated.
Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
Hunchman, I told you the other night to stop talking about Finchley Road, your posts are going to get Mike into trouble.
That instruction is still in force.
I'm happy for any of the companies to take me to court that I am alleging of fraud, theft and money laundering. They won't because my sources and myself have access to forensic documents that would hold up in a court of law. So the risk is with me, not with Mike thank you very much. And it is a risk that I'm delighted to take in order to get the vile corrupt $cum exposed over this with all the damage that they are doing to millions and millions of peoples innocent lives, not just in the UK but around the world.
Nope, they'll go after Mike.
If you want to discuss it, it won't be on PB.
I'm responsible for what I write. You can look at the allegations backed up with hard forensic evidence over the internet and you can also check that none of us are being brought to the courts to defend ourselves. I would suggest that is because those we are accusing are now wetting their panties in a state of panic over this getting into the mainstream. And when it does get into the mainstream, which is a matter of time, but not it, don't say I didn't tell you so.
Mike is responsible for what is published on here regardless of who writes it.
You are correct that they could sue you as well, but they can and will sue Mike because they can find him easier.
Are you going to watch the two hour debate on ITV tomorrow with Sturgeon v Boris. See Boris and leave defend themselves against Nicola armed with Sarah's resignation
Hopefully, Remain will keep reminding people that billions of pounds is being siphoned out of the UK. Billions and billions - that could be spent in Britain.
And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.
Your help is much appreciated.
Do you really think Nicola is going to blow this opportunity. She is the most accomplished politician in the UK. - anyway you will no doubt watch it yourself and see how Boris deals with her and Marie Eagle and Amber Rudd. Up against three ladies is usually a Boris specialility but this will be something very different. Lets see what happens
Hm, I wouldn't call Sturgeon the most accomplished, she didn't even win a majority
Starting to look horribly stage managed, almost as if it were planned for her to flip flop two weeks before the vote.
That presumes such a switch was predicted to strike a chord with the public, when there is no guarantee of that. If that were the plan, she could also have worded previous statements differently to not be as open to charges of hypocrisy and the like
I think a more likely explanation is that the manner of her switch is, of course, stage managed, but the switch itself was not. Just because the presentation of something is carefully managed doesn't mean it is not genuine. Having watched the interview now she does explain it was more than merely the claims and tenor of the Leave campaign which persuaded her, and though I find it a little baffling the issues which swayed her in the end hit her this late in the day, given her less than drone like record, it would be a significant leap to assuming she would be on board with such a scheme, as opposed to other party automatons.
Comments
https://www.kent.police.uk/news/latest_news/160608_knight.html
So would some PB posters who haven't a clue on poor mass immigration.
Found the #newsnight piece on demographics/targeting misleading at the very least but I don't have the strength to write it up
Odd.
Paperwork is boring, in a country where many people have an attention span of nano-seconds, its no surprise that this fraud, theft and money laundering has perpetuated as far as it has with people as ignorant as you.
This could be hilarious. Hysterical Brexiteers lauding folk they were condemning yesterday...
I know they are in place until the offender has been moved from their initial prison to a prison with a population that is more sympathetic towards child abusers.
@faisalislam: Tory MP @Stewart4Pboro has just retweeted the theory that @sarahwollaston was "a Remain plant" https://t.co/YNFJ2iOCSm
@suttonnick: Leave's health claims are shameful - @sarahwollaston's article for Thursday's Times
#tomorrowspaperstoday #euref https://t.co/wQ9FsmVqWZ
http://www.shareprophets.com/views/1628/what-does-aim-listed-amara-mining-get-from-peter-hain-mp
* Govt crashed website to give kids more time to register;
* No10 put MPs in Vote Leave to defect back
Sure signs of a campaign confident of victory...
I'm a political anorak, you are too for being on here, nearly all of the public aren't. But heck, aren't we proud to be in such a knowledgeable minority?!
Watch the highlights as things get heated in our #EUref debate featuring @andrealeadsom tonight: https://t.co/05V98KnpmR #CSJSunEU
If I did a PB thread header calling Boris Johnson the serial philanderer, that would be unacceptable too.
1. Pictures of Dorian Grey
2. Nigel Farage bang on the money; David Cameron not giving a proverbial.
https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/740229539155083264
Actually I've never known such division in the nation over something. I bet if Cameron had his time again he wouldn't have gone down this route. Or do people think that because he 'stands for precisely nothing' this is his way of passing the time?
Not difficult is it?
We also have a very large group of newly elected Conservative MPs who would like to see their careers continue, and for the Conservatives to win outright majority against this lame duck Labour opposition. Seriously, whatever the outcome of the EU Referendum, surely they realise that they will not be easily forgiven by the wider party and Conservative voters if they cost a post Cameron Conservative party the next GE.
The biggest thing that has happened in the last 24 hours is Cameron insulting the English, which he can add to his smirking whilst Obama was here. It will not go down well.
I'm from the school of thought, men love sex, men also love their country.
Is a non issue for me, as people probably have worked out, I'm not a puritan
Only explanation.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/migrationstatisticsquarterlyreport/may2016
Presumably many of the EU migrants (French financiers, German bankers, Greek doctors, Portuguese nurses etc) would either be permitted under the new points system, or substituted by other nationalities with the same skills. This would be a fair number as the employment rate of EU migrants is high, perhaps 60 000 to 70 000. This would make for net immigration of about a quarter of a million.
https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/740675339609870336
Personally, although some people think he went in complacent, I think the opposite - if he thought it would be a comfortable win he'd have been more inclined to not front the campaign. As it is, knowing if Leave won he'd be gone and not thinking Remain had it in the bag, he calculated he couldn't sit back for the sake of party unity later, he needed to go hard and try to mop up the mess later by ensuring he was still there to do so. My point was he could have said not a damn thing and he would still be attacked for causing himself and the party reputational damage, because it is his being Remain which is deemed to be causing that. The manner of how he has conducted himself has made it a lot worse than it could have been, yes, but if the starting point, as it clearly is, is 'being for remain damages Cameron', then he would always face some.
I'm not trying to dispute with (in particular but not limited to) Tory Leavers that his campaign has been disgraceful - I'm not offended by it personally, but then I'm a Leaver, not a Tory Leaver - merely that the option before him was not 'Immense damage to reputation according to press and Leave vs no damage', but 'immense damage vs damage'.
He may well have made the wrong choice in strategy, but I feel that slight distinction is necessary to understanding why it has seemed rational to him, given all these 'why is cameron doing this?' type remarks.
People are acting as though it makes no sense for him to act as he has, but I think it does. It may be based on faulty assumptions, be executed poorly, and has blown up in his face, but it wasn't without reason, which is the implication one gets sometimes.
That instruction is still in force.
It is a bad policy. As is the latest EU monitoring hate speech policy.
Can we have 1984 as mandatory reading for all?
If you want to discuss it, it won't be on PB.
And someone like Sturgeon saying something about Little England would be the icing and the cherry on top.
Your help is much appreciated.
So, for the avoidance of doubt, no more discussions by you about Finchley Road
You are correct that they could sue you as well, but they can and will sue Mike because they can find him easier.
Two Palestinian cousins are suspected of the "harsh terror attack" on a bustling food market near Israel's military headquarters.
http://news.sky.com/story/1709072/four-killed-in-mass-shooting-in-tel-aviv
A. Because Brussels told them to!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3631727/Top-Gear-host-Chris-Evans-hits-skids-spotted-drinking-street-just-days-loses-audience-episode-two.html
For the record, it is a really unfair headline by Mail...
I think a more likely explanation is that the manner of her switch is, of course, stage managed, but the switch itself was not. Just because the presentation of something is carefully managed doesn't mean it is not genuine. Having watched the interview now she does explain it was more than merely the claims and tenor of the Leave campaign which persuaded her, and though I find it a little baffling the issues which swayed her in the end hit her this late in the day, given her less than drone like record, it would be a significant leap to assuming she would be on board with such a scheme, as opposed to other party automatons.
Good night.