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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Michael Gove’s very big night out

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  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,081

    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: EXCL: David Cameron's former guru Steve Hilton challenges him to a TV debate - as he joins the Vote Leave team; https://t.co/o5lF28BhTF

    That's interesting.

    Cameron will not do it, but if that is brought up enough times I wonder what mileage it will get.
    There is a debate nearly every evening from Monday on. No one outside the bubble has a clue who Steve Hilton is and it simply will not get any traction. After tonight the result will depend on which wins, the economy or immigration, and in most elections 'it is the economy stupid'
    It is but people have been genuinely shocked by the immigration numbers.
    They have but it would be more of a concern if unemployment was high which it is not at approx 5%
    To point to Labour's critique the people who are employed are frequently under employed whilst others (including the BoE) point to weak wage growth. Even Stuart Rose formerly of M&S said wages would rise if we left.

    Interesting BBC are going with Gove's positive bits.
    Gove was certainly impressive tonight.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    How fantastically patronising. I suggest you don't go any further down this path.
  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    Could it be, that like a lot of people in Europe, we don't actually like the EU or the way it works?

    There is a huge issue people have with being governed by people they don't know and can't see or throw out.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,287

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    Sunil IS British.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited June 2016
    tyson said:

    As much as I find your WW2 views a bit disconcerting, I do think you are one of the finest minds that pervades this site.

    Completely, randomly, I have just eaten 4 bowls of rice crispies within about 10 minutes and feel very greedy.

    Well, if I disconcert, I make no apologies. If that makes you think for yourself - rather than echo what the last man said - I'll chalk it up as a gain, whatever your reasoned conclusion happens to be at the end.

    Rice Krispies? Childhood seems so long ago for me now, but I remember enjoying them.
    Didn't mothers used to bake them into a home-made chocolate biscuit-thing?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,081
    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Yet more RACIST REMAIN "logic" :(
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,081
    RoyalBlue said:

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    How fantastically patronising. I suggest you don't go any further down this path.
    Patronising AND Racist, for sure.

    BTW Sunil means "BLUE" :)
  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Another Phil Mickelson story (as a fellow marshal this is special, I have my own personal Phil story) -

    Phil teed off on the 15th at the Memorial today, and his ball went way right, striking a marshal in the head, then ran all across the fairway, coming to rest in the first cut of rough on the left side.

    Phil strides right up to the marshal, says "If your head was softer I'd be in the middle of the fairway!", thanks him for being a marshal and apologizes profusely for hitting him, then shakes his hand and gives him an autographed glove - "I'm so sorry - Phil Mickelson".

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Phil is a class act and Yes I'm a fan.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281
    Tim_B said:

    Another Phil Mickelson story (as a fellow marshal this is special, I have my own personal Phil story) -

    Phil teed off on the 15th at the Memorial today, and his ball went way right, striking a marshal in the head, then ran all across the fairway, coming to rest in the first cut of rough on the left side.

    Phil strides right up to the marshal, says "If your head was softer I'd be in the middle of the fairway!", thanks him for being a marshal and apologizes profusely for hitting him, then shakes his hand and gives him an autographed glove - "I'm so sorry - Phil Mickelson".

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Phil is a class act and Yes I'm a fan.

    On the whole but at the British Open a few years ago I saw him shouting at a spectator for blocking his view
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,081

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    Sunil IS British.
    How else do you explain my predilection for trains and railways? :lol:
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    at the British Open a few years ago

    You mean The Open...
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,063
    Thank you- I now not only feel a bit greedy, but quite ill. Those poor rats.
    In my defence, I didn't eat any tea, and went to a gig (James Bay) and came back famished. I'll doubt I'll eat more than one plate of cereal ever again in my life in one sitting.

    tyson said:

    As much as I find your WW2 views a bit disconcerting, I do think you are one of the finest minds that pervades this site.

    Completely, randomly, I have just eaten 4 bowls of rice crispies within about 10 minutes and feel very greedy.

    RodCrosby said:

    tyson said:

    Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.

    matt said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Ich bin der Trommler...

    Do you have a thing for Nazis and the symbolism from that era? You sound very, very odd.
    Now then. You know there's a ban on this subject [not my rules].

    And that applies to all bulbs...
    Tut tut. Watch this and you'll never eat a bowl again.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xCtI3gGP8Y
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,365
    edited June 2016
    OUT said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Conclusion:

    Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.

    Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.

    All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
    The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
    Yeah, minor inconveniences like:

    Piece rates being driven down
    Overcrowded schools
    Maternity services in chaos
    House prices driven sky high
    All critical issues.

    Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.

    Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
    58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.

    Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
    I've not noticed many Polish builders with BabyBjorns.
    64,000 babies born to EU mums each year in the UK.
    Barely 10% of the overall birth rate, and many of the fathers will be British citizens. And EU presumably includes Irish?
    " and many of the fathers will be British citizens."
    Citation required.
    Well, I'm one of the fathers. Photos of the conception available on request.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    RoyalBlue said:

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    How fantastically patronising. I suggest you don't go any further down this path.
    Patronising AND Racist, for sure.

    BTW Sunil means "BLUE" :)
    How wonderfully sound :smile:
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,416
    The mind boggles - is it not blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that charging families of dead soldiers for the Chilcott report would look very, very, very bad.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/03/chilcot-report-iraq-war-soldiers-families-free-copy-david-cameron-intervenes
  • Options
    MikeL said:

    The mind boggles - is it not blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that charging families of dead soldiers for the Chilcott report would look very, very, very bad.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/03/chilcot-report-iraq-war-soldiers-families-free-copy-david-cameron-intervenes

    Agreed, why can't they just make a PDF available for download.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    Another Phil Mickelson story (as a fellow marshal this is special, I have my own personal Phil story) -

    Phil teed off on the 15th at the Memorial today, and his ball went way right, striking a marshal in the head, then ran all across the fairway, coming to rest in the first cut of rough on the left side.

    Phil strides right up to the marshal, says "If your head was softer I'd be in the middle of the fairway!", thanks him for being a marshal and apologizes profusely for hitting him, then shakes his hand and gives him an autographed glove - "I'm so sorry - Phil Mickelson".

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Phil is a class act and Yes I'm a fan.

    On the whole but at the British Open a few years ago I saw him shouting at a spectator for blocking his view
    Good for him - the spectator should have known better, and there should have been a marshal there to police the crowd.

    By the 'British Open' I assume you mean the 'Open Championship'? (sorry, Pedant took over for a minute).
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    Sunil IS British.
    He's a patriot.
  • Options

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    Sunil IS British.
    How else do you explain my predilection for trains and railways? :lol:
    BTW congrats to your mum on her Ilford in Bloom prize.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,227
    edited June 2016

    RoyalBlue said:

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    How fantastically patronising. I suggest you don't go any further down this path.
    Patronising AND Racist, for sure.

    BTW Sunil means "BLUE" :)
    If I can add some context to what might have caused offence, I've encountered many people (chiefly eastern Europeans) who've settled in this country but at the same time expressed disappointment that it doesn't match up to the Britain of their imaginations, of Mary Poppins, Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie. They complain about the number of immigrants (by which they mean non-white immigrants); they don't understand what has made modern Britain the way it is.

    I gather you came here as a child so you're certainly not in that category so I apologise if I've conflated their views with yours.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    chestnut said:

    For anyone who is interested:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2015-08-27#country-of-birth-of-foreign-born-fathers

    "Between 2001 and 2012 the number of live births increased by 23%."

    Nationality information is within.

    The Irish born population in the UK is in steady decline. Foreign born mums and dads broadly at 180,000 each in 2014.

    A 23% increase in the birth rate would most likely have profound effects on the costs and resource requirements of the Education, Healthcare and Social Welfare systems.

    According to the ONS mothers born in EU countries accounted for well under half of the babies born to mothers born outside the UK in 2014. The middle east and Asia appear to be the leaders with Africa fairly close. Just saying...
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,205
    RodCrosby said:

    Feck

    Unrelatedly, any chance you could do your Kalman Filter thing on the EU Ref polls?
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,306

    MikeL said:

    The mind boggles - is it not blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that charging families of dead soldiers for the Chilcott report would look very, very, very bad.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/03/chilcot-report-iraq-war-soldiers-families-free-copy-david-cameron-intervenes

    Agreed, why can't they just make a PDF available for download.
    They are doing that anyway.
  • Options
    OUTOUT Posts: 569
    edited June 2016

    OUT said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Conclusion:

    Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.

    Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.

    All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
    The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
    Yeah, minor inconveniences like:

    Piece rates being driven down
    Overcrowded schools
    Maternity services in chaos
    House prices driven sky high
    All critical issues.

    Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.

    Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
    58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.

    Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
    I've not noticed many Polish builders with BabyBjorns.
    64,000 babies born to EU mums each year in the UK.
    Barely 10% of the overall birth rate, and many of the fathers will be British citizens. And EU presumably includes Irish?
    " and many of the fathers will be British citizens."
    Citation required.
    Well, I'm one of the fathers. Photos of the conception available on request.
    One of the fathers? Are you in a club for fathers of children whose mother was born in the EU.
    How many members?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,081

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    Sunil IS British.
    How else do you explain my predilection for trains and railways? :lol:
    BTW congrats to your mum on her Ilford in Bloom prize.
    Thanks muchly, Hertsmere!

    But it's officially Redbridge in Bloom (though as Ilford is the biggest town, I guess it really should be Ilford in Bloom).

    Unfortunately, building work means we won't be entering this year :)
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    MikeL said:

    The mind boggles - is it not blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that charging families of dead soldiers for the Chilcott report would look very, very, very bad.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/03/chilcot-report-iraq-war-soldiers-families-free-copy-david-cameron-intervenes

    Agreed, why can't they just make a PDF available for download.
    They have. And they are already giving free hard copies to immediate family
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,294
    This exhibition of political cartoons might improve the recent tone of some threads.

    https://twitter.com/Cartoon4sale/status/738793517665931264
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,762

    OUT said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Conclusion:

    Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.

    Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.

    All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
    The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
    Yeah, minor inconveniences like:

    Piece rates being driven down
    Overcrowded schools
    Maternity services in chaos
    House prices driven sky high
    All critical issues.

    Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.

    Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
    58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.

    Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
    I've not noticed many Polish builders with BabyBjorns.
    64,000 babies born to EU mums each year in the UK.
    Barely 10% of the overall birth rate, and many of the fathers will be British citizens. And EU presumably includes Irish?
    " and many of the fathers will be British citizens."
    Citation required.
    Well, I'm one of the fathers. Photos of the conception available on request.
    Unless you were genuinely taking photographs during the, er, event, I'll assume you mean photographs of the child
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,416
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    MikeL said:

    The mind boggles - is it not blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that charging families of dead soldiers for the Chilcott report would look very, very, very bad.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/03/chilcot-report-iraq-war-soldiers-families-free-copy-david-cameron-intervenes

    Agreed, why can't they just make a PDF available for download.
    They are doing that anyway.
    Yes, I know - but the point is they are going to want a properly bound paper copy - and they aren't going to want to have to print out thousands of pages and then buy lever arch files to put it all in.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    Another Phil Mickelson story (as a fellow marshal this is special, I have my own personal Phil story) -

    Phil teed off on the 15th at the Memorial today, and his ball went way right, striking a marshal in the head, then ran all across the fairway, coming to rest in the first cut of rough on the left side.

    Phil strides right up to the marshal, says "If your head was softer I'd be in the middle of the fairway!", thanks him for being a marshal and apologizes profusely for hitting him, then shakes his hand and gives him an autographed glove - "I'm so sorry - Phil Mickelson".

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Phil is a class act and Yes I'm a fan.

    On the whole but at the British Open a few years ago I saw him shouting at a spectator for blocking his view
    Good for him - the spectator should have known better, and there should have been a marshal there to police the crowd.

    By the 'British Open' I assume you mean the 'Open Championship'? (sorry, Pedant took over for a minute).
    Must be, since he's not eligible for the British Open.
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,063
    OK- I'll take my wife. She is Italian. If she told me that she wants tighter immigration to stop more Italians (or other foreigners) coming in- I would find her attitude mean, and selfish, and it would make me think much less of her.

    My wife, though like me is open minded. That is why I love her. I couldn't bear her to be narrow minded, and blinkered as the Brexit crowd.

    Life is hard enough without living with mean entities around you all day.

    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,081

    RoyalBlue said:

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    Define "slightly misplaced", please?

    BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
    Irrational, borne of a desire to be 'more British than the British'.
    How fantastically patronising. I suggest you don't go any further down this path.
    Patronising AND Racist, for sure.

    BTW Sunil means "BLUE" :)
    If I can add some context to what might have caused offence, I've encountered many people (chiefly eastern Europeans) who've settled in this country but at the same time expressed disappointment that it doesn't match up to the Britain of their imaginations, of Mary Poppins, Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie. They complain about the number of immigrants (by which they mean non-white immigrants); they don't understand what has made modern Britain the way it is.

    I gather you came here as a child so you're certainly not in that category so I apologise if I've conflated their views with yours.
    No real offence taken!

    When I first arrived in Blighty in 1976, I knew NOT A WORD of English! Strange, but true! But it can be explained by me being only 4 months old...
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,365
    OUT said:

    OUT said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    chestnut said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Conclusion:

    Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.

    Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.

    All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
    The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
    Yeah, minor inconveniences like:

    Piece rates being driven down
    Overcrowded schools
    Maternity services in chaos
    House prices driven sky high
    All critical issues.

    Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.

    Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
    58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.

    Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
    I've not noticed many Polish builders with BabyBjorns.
    64,000 babies born to EU mums each year in the UK.
    Barely 10% of the overall birth rate, and many of the fathers will be British citizens. And EU presumably includes Irish?
    " and many of the fathers will be British citizens."
    Citation required.
    Well, I'm one of the fathers. Photos of the conception available on request.
    One of the fathers? Are you in a club for fathers of children whose mother was born in the EU.
    How many members?
    Since the UK is an EU member, I'm guessing around 648,000
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Newsnight finishes with them comparing photos of Donald Trump and Boris Johnson doing similar things.
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    tyson said:

    Thank you- I now not only feel a bit greedy, but quite ill. Those poor rats.
    In my defence, I didn't eat any tea, and went to a gig (James Bay) and came back famished. I'll doubt I'll eat more than one plate of cereal ever again in my life in one sitting.

    tyson said:

    As much as I find your WW2 views a bit disconcerting, I do think you are one of the finest minds that pervades this site.

    Completely, randomly, I have just eaten 4 bowls of rice crispies within about 10 minutes and feel very greedy.

    RodCrosby said:

    tyson said:

    Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.

    matt said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Ich bin der Trommler...

    Do you have a thing for Nazis and the symbolism from that era? You sound very, very odd.
    Now then. You know there's a ban on this subject [not my rules].

    And that applies to all bulbs...
    Tut tut. Watch this and you'll never eat a bowl again.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xCtI3gGP8Y
    That's interesting. (The bit on cereals.)

    This is the sort of time I'd quite like to win the lottery to change the world. (And make some money at it)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,948

    NEW THREAD NEW THREAD

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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,235
    tyson said:

    Thank you- I now not only feel a bit greedy, but quite ill. Those poor rats.
    In my defence, I didn't eat any tea, and went to a gig (James Bay) and came back famished. I'll doubt I'll eat more than one plate of cereal ever again in my life in one sitting.

    tyson said:

    As much as I find your WW2 views a bit disconcerting, I do think you are one of the finest minds that pervades this site.

    Completely, randomly, I have just eaten 4 bowls of rice crispies within about 10 minutes and feel very greedy.

    RodCrosby said:

    tyson said:

    Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.

    matt said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Ich bin der Trommler...

    Do you have a thing for Nazis and the symbolism from that era? You sound very, very odd.
    Now then. You know there's a ban on this subject [not my rules].

    And that applies to all bulbs...
    Tut tut. Watch this and you'll never eat a bowl again.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xCtI3gGP8Y
    You're welcome - I'll spare you her views on pasteurised milk for the time being!
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    MikeL said:

    The mind boggles - is it not blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that charging families of dead soldiers for the Chilcott report would look very, very, very bad.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/03/chilcot-report-iraq-war-soldiers-families-free-copy-david-cameron-intervenes

    The problem is that the MOD is at best a useless bunch of insensitive w*nkers, and at worst, much worse. That said that was the inquiry's idea though originally apparently.
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    MikeL said:

    The mind boggles - is it not blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that charging families of dead soldiers for the Chilcott report would look very, very, very bad.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/03/chilcot-report-iraq-war-soldiers-families-free-copy-david-cameron-intervenes

    Agreed, why can't they just make a PDF available for download.
    They will. For anyone.
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    Charles said:

    MikeL said:

    The mind boggles - is it not blindingly obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that charging families of dead soldiers for the Chilcott report would look very, very, very bad.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/03/chilcot-report-iraq-war-soldiers-families-free-copy-david-cameron-intervenes

    Agreed, why can't they just make a PDF available for download.
    They have. And they are already giving free hard copies to immediate family
    So they're not charging bereaved relatives? Good.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    tyson said:

    OK- I'll take my wife. She is Italian. If she told me that she wants tighter immigration to stop more Italians (or other foreigners) coming in- I would find her attitude mean, and selfish, and it would make me think much less of her.

    My wife, though like me is open minded. That is why I love her. I couldn't bear her to be narrow minded, and blinkered as the Brexit crowd.

    Life is hard enough without living with mean entities around you all day.

    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
    You are the opposite of open minded. You are utterly intolerant of ideas you do not currently hold.

    The most important sort of diversity in any society is intellectual. You prefer a superficial diversity that extends to restaurants and racial diversity, but no further.
  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    tyson said:

    OK- I'll take my wife. She is Italian. If she told me that she wants tighter immigration to stop more Italians (or other foreigners) coming in- I would find her attitude mean, and selfish, and it would make me think much less of her.

    My wife, though like me is open minded. That is why I love her. I couldn't bear her to be narrow minded, and blinkered as the Brexit crowd.

    Life is hard enough without living with mean entities around you all day.

    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
    So you think people who want to control immigration are mean?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    midwinter said:

    chestnut said:

    For anyone who is interested:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2015-08-27#country-of-birth-of-foreign-born-fathers

    "Between 2001 and 2012 the number of live births increased by 23%."

    Nationality information is within.

    The Irish born population in the UK is in steady decline. Foreign born mums and dads broadly at 180,000 each in 2014.

    A 23% increase in the birth rate would most likely have profound effects on the costs and resource requirements of the Education, Healthcare and Social Welfare systems.

    According to the ONS mothers born in EU countries accounted for well under half of the babies born to mothers born outside the UK in 2014. The middle east and Asia appear to be the leaders with Africa fairly close. Just saying...
    That is my experience in our maternity unit in Leicester. The fertility rate of non-EU migrants is high compared to EU migrants.

    The highest rates are in Nigerian and Pakistani born women (140 births per 1000 women) with Bangladesh at 110, India and Poland at 95 and UK born at 60.

    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20160105160709/http://ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/fertility-analysis/childbearing-of-uk-and-non-uk-born-women-living-in-the-uk/2011/childbearing-among-uk-born-and-non-uk-born-women-living-in-the-uk.html

    Overcrowded maternity units and schools are mostly a product of non-EU migration.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,235
    tyson said:

    OK- I'll take my wife. She is Italian. If she told me that she wants tighter immigration to stop more Italians (or other foreigners) coming in- I would find her attitude mean, and selfish, and it would make me think much less of her.

    My wife, though like me is open minded. That is why I love her. I couldn't bear her to be narrow minded, and blinkered as the Brexit crowd.

    Life is hard enough without living with mean entities around you all day.

    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
    Perhaps you should be a little more open minded yourself. I am not right wing because I like laughing at poor people. I am right wing because I genuinely believe that the 'right wing' solutions are likelier to guarantee prosperity and societal harmony, and by so doing make people happier, in the long term. If I could be convinced that we could tax, spend, and regulate our way to a happy and prosperous society, with no pain for anyone, I'd sign up on the spot - who wouldn't? Nobody relishes being the Abanazar of politics. But socialism doesn't work. It has never worked - logic can show it cannot work. Instead it causes greater misery in the long term.

    So you carry on emoting and sucking up all the cheap 'compassion' so there's none left for anyone else, and the narrow minded, blinkered Brexit people will get on with trying to save our country.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    tyson said:

    OK- I'll take my wife. She is Italian. If she told me that she wants tighter immigration to stop more Italians (or other foreigners) coming in- I would find her attitude mean, and selfish, and it would make me think much less of her.

    My wife, though like me is open minded. That is why I love her. I couldn't bear her to be narrow minded, and blinkered as the Brexit crowd.

    Life is hard enough without living with mean entities around you all day.

    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
    So you think people who want to control immigration are mean?
    Well he thinks Norwich is to white and he thinks the gangs of young asylum seeking men hanging around his area in Italy would be better off over here,of course he thinks people who want control are mean or racist.
  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944

    tyson said:

    OK- I'll take my wife. She is Italian. If she told me that she wants tighter immigration to stop more Italians (or other foreigners) coming in- I would find her attitude mean, and selfish, and it would make me think much less of her.

    My wife, though like me is open minded. That is why I love her. I couldn't bear her to be narrow minded, and blinkered as the Brexit crowd.

    Life is hard enough without living with mean entities around you all day.

    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
    So you think people who want to control immigration are mean?
    Well he thinks Norwich is to white and he thinks the gangs of young asylum seeking men hanging around his area in Italy would be better off over here,of course he thinks people who want control are mean or racist.
    Ah. I see. So he's narrow minded.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,281
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tim_B said:

    Another Phil Mickelson story (as a fellow marshal this is special, I have my own personal Phil story) -

    Phil teed off on the 15th at the Memorial today, and his ball went way right, striking a marshal in the head, then ran all across the fairway, coming to rest in the first cut of rough on the left side.

    Phil strides right up to the marshal, says "If your head was softer I'd be in the middle of the fairway!", thanks him for being a marshal and apologizes profusely for hitting him, then shakes his hand and gives him an autographed glove - "I'm so sorry - Phil Mickelson".

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Phil is a class act and Yes I'm a fan.

    On the whole but at the British Open a few years ago I saw him shouting at a spectator for blocking his view
    Good for him - the spectator should have known better, and there should have been a marshal there to police the crowd.

    By the 'British Open' I assume you mean the 'Open Championship'? (sorry, Pedant took over for a minute).
    The Open yes, not that there is another British Open anyway
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Conclusion:

    Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.

    Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.

    All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
    The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
    Yeah, minor inconveniences like:

    Piece rates being driven down
    Overcrowded schools
    Maternity services in chaos
    House prices driven sky high
    All critical issues.

    Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.

    Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
    Unemployment is 1.7 million in the UK and around 6% even in London. If we can cut immigration it could become even lower.
    On a like for like basis withe 1970s and 80s it is much higher. If those currently on Training Schemes and now forced to stay at school until 18 several hundred thousand would be added to the headline figures.In addition, many of those on ESA /Incapacity Benefit/PIP would have been classed as uneployed thirty years ago. The total -after removing all the intervening adjiustments - would be over 2.5 million.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,227

    So you carry on emoting and sucking up all the cheap 'compassion' so there's none left for anyone else, and the narrow minded, blinkered Brexit people will get on with trying to save our country.

    What do you think of right wing Remainers?
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,717

    tyson said:

    OK- I'll take my wife. She is Italian. If she told me that she wants tighter immigration to stop more Italians (or other foreigners) coming in- I would find her attitude mean, and selfish, and it would make me think much less of her.

    My wife, though like me is open minded. That is why I love her. I couldn't bear her to be narrow minded, and blinkered as the Brexit crowd.

    Life is hard enough without living with mean entities around you all day.

    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
    So you think people who want to control immigration are mean?
    Countries that don't control their borders are mean to genuine refugees. Those that are in control can afford to be generous, as they have their ability to prioritise refugees over economic migrants. That's 25,000 Syrian refugees resettled in Canada in the space of four months. We have admitted 1,602 over the previous six.

    http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/welcome/

  • Options
    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944



    tyson said:

    OK- I'll take my wife. She is Italian. If she told me that she wants tighter immigration to stop more Italians (or other foreigners) coming in- I would find her attitude mean, and selfish, and it would make me think much less of her.

    My wife, though like me is open minded. That is why I love her. I couldn't bear her to be narrow minded, and blinkered as the Brexit crowd.

    Life is hard enough without living with mean entities around you all day.

    tyson said:

    The UK has that effect on people with foreign lineage. My foreign wife is as Anglophile as it comes, and she's not even a citizen.

    I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.

    Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.

    You make a compelling argument to reduce immigration...
    RACIST REMAINER :)
    :) In all seriousness I do wonder whether you have a slightly misplaced sentimentality about Britain which is driving your view on this.
    I don't find it odd. I find it quite refreshing to run into people of all backgrounds who think Britain is good. I think it is which is why I am here. I also think the Lebanon is good.
    So you think people who want to control immigration are mean?
    Countries that don't control their borders are mean to genuine refugees. Those that are in control can afford to be generous, as they have their ability to prioritise refugees over economic migrants. That's 25,000 Syrian refugees resettled in Canada in the space of four months. We have admitted 1,602 over the previous six.

    http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/welcome/

    Well there you go. Presumably Canada's have been pre screened as well.
This discussion has been closed.