I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
I'm kind of the same. My father was a gunsmith and firearms dealer and I am very au fait with small arms calibres, which are a bewildering mix of imperial and metric. The basic thing to remember is that 1 inch is 2.54 cm. So an imperial .30 calibre rifle round becomes a 7.62mm metric one.
That's answered a long standing query of mine. It's most confusing for the casual observer.
am i right in thinking this caused some trouble/confusion in early 20C Japan, whose ships were british built, with imperial gun measurements?
Kongo (last battleship built in UK for Japan) and rest of her class = 14 inch guns Fuso class = 14 inch Ise class = 14 inch Nagato class = 16 inch Yamato class = 18 inch
Miss Plato, looks interesting. There are a few different versions of the book, but the extra stuff with Fang La's men (who is in the version I read) seems a change.
I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure. Agreed.
Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...
But who knows. We live in volatile times.
Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
what evidence is there of Theresa's competence tho?
She has survived at the Home Office - a very difficult job.
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I have just watched Corbyn the Movie, produced by Vice, for the second time, as I wanted to check that my initial reaction was justified. It transpires that Corbyn is even worse than I originally thought.
He is spot on with the not as nice as supposed to be, that temper shows through as soon as he is asked one hard-ish question....and as thick as shit, definitely.
It really was a mistake by Team Corbyn. Fly-on-the-wall is always messy and risky, but having a fan do it and end up with this makes me wonder what anyone else would make with the same access
Personally I would like to see the managed decline of the city anyway. If it was hit in the event of Brexit it would cause us some short term difficulties but I suspect it would be a good thing in the long run. Quite why people venerate it when it's rise over the last say 130 years has gone hand in hand with the arguable overall decline of UK plc is a mystery to me.
0_o
Which other very lucrative industries would you like us to lose??
Thanks to inept (mostly Tory) governments over the past 40 years, we don't have any (other than the brief North Sea Oil sugar rush)
I'm going to miss your posts next week when you're back in nursery school
Sunil, your posts have become mighty brief of late. Are you sure you haven't been kidnapped and replaced by a Sunilbot?
I'm a polling addict, and, and I've been fighting to get off opinion polls - shut up, TSE! - and, um, for over a year. I've been in rehab twice, and I don't wanna be like people like Angus Reid, that were... and stuff like that. I wanna be a survivor.
I mean I died again on Election Night. So, I'm not... I'm not... my cats' lives are out. I... I just wanna say sorry to all the fans and stuff, and uh, I'm glad to be alive, and sorry to me mum as well.
I just want them to know that it's not cool. It's not a cool thing to be an addict. It's not... you know, you're a slave to it, and it took... it's taken everything away from me that I loved, and so I've got to rebuild my life.
I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure. Agreed.
Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...
But who knows. We live in volatile times.
Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
what evidence is there of Theresa's competence tho?
She has survived at the Home Office - a very difficult job.
It was split in half - justice being removed right? and she has failed at her half. She's only survived cause Dave can't be arsed to reshuffle. I'm a bi pissed now so probably talking psih, mind
Just watching Cameron vs Faisal again - Dave is still as stroppy and full of adrenaline.
He didn't do very well in GE version of these either. Where he was better was with the audience interaction, but the one on one interview he was very poor.
That's very significant. If and when America finally gets round to doing a trade deal with us, no way will they do that regional-naming protection thing. We'd then have our Cornish pasties imported from Texas or some such place. I can't think of anything worse.
I'm kind of the same. My father was a gunsmith and firearms dealer and I am very au fait with small arms calibres, which are a bewildering mix of imperial and metric. The basic thing to remember is that 1 inch is 2.54 cm. So an imperial .30 calibre rifle round becomes a 7.62mm metric one.
That's answered a long standing query of mine. It's most confusing for the casual observer.
am i right in thinking this caused some trouble/confusion in early 20C Japan, whose ships were british built, with imperial gun measurements?
Kongo (last battleship built in UK for Japan) and rest of her class = 14 inch guns Fuso class = 14 inch Ise class = 14 inch Nagato class = 16 inch Yamato class = 18 inch
I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure. Agreed.
Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...
But who knows. We live in volatile times.
Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
what evidence is there of Theresa's competence tho?
She has survived at the Home Office - a very difficult job.
All "she has survived at the Home Office" means is that the Prime Minister hates reshuffles.
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
That's very significant. If and when America finally gets round to doing a trade deal with us, no way will they do that regional-naming protection thing. We'd then have our Cornish pasties imported from Texas or some such place. I can't think of anything worse.
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
I can't quite understand what's got into him. Years of superb CameronDirects and urbane media appearances - now he's getting all huffy, stroppy and rude when challenged.
Too much time with YesMen, me thinks. The tightly managed/no media tours of factories hasn't helped him at all.
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
have you never argued with a woman? (getting coat)
That's very significant. If and when America finally gets round to doing a trade deal with us, no way will they do that regional-naming protection thing. We'd then have our Cornish pasties imported from Texas or some such place. I can't think of anything worse.
Why would we need to import Pasties while Cornwall is still part of the UK?
"A few months ago, the polling found Gove had the same net unfavourable ratings as Jeremy Corbyn, I would think this type of polling would deter Tory MPs and the Tory membership from electing Gove as leader, but when the Tory party is obsessed with the European Union, it leads to bad leadership results, as evidenced by the time they elected Iain Duncan Smith as leader".
For a party willing to impale themselves in order to smash the EU you shouldn't be looking at things logically.
I wouldn't be surprised if they gave it to IDS with Pierrepoint Patel as his deputy.
I'm kind of the same. My father was a gunsmith and firearms dealer and I am very au fait with small arms calibres, which are a bewildering mix of imperial and metric. The basic thing to remember is that 1 inch is 2.54 cm. So an imperial .30 calibre rifle round becomes a 7.62mm metric one.
That's answered a long standing query of mine. It's most confusing for the casual observer.
am i right in thinking this caused some trouble/confusion in early 20C Japan, whose ships were british built, with imperial gun measurements?
Kongo (last battleship built in UK for Japan) and rest of her class = 14 inch guns Fuso class = 14 inch Ise class = 14 inch Nagato class = 16 inch Yamato class = 18 inch
ah, OK, so no confusion, just inches all the way?
Although to be fair, I think the Nagato and Yamato class were actually 16.1 and 18.1 inch respectively.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
''I can't quite understand what's got into him. Years of superb CameronDirects and urbane media appearances - now he's getting all huffy, stroppy and rude when challenged.''
MS Plato, Having won an election against the odds and having destroyed his enemies, David Cameron probably feels he should be master of all he surveys.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.
All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.
Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
Or hammond.
Why have Hammond or May when you can have Clarkson?
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
As I said yesterday, knowing Corbyn is for Leave confirms to me that I am right to support Remain.
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
The problem is he was not answering the question and thinks he has a right to talk about something else. He had a number of snap backs from females on the Sky show last night. Also as Plato pointed out his handling of the usually timid Faisal was just as bone headed as can be.
There is one person on here who knows people who have come across Osborne and Cameron and say that Osborne is far more polite.
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
That's very significant. If and when America finally gets round to doing a trade deal with us, no way will they do that regional-naming protection thing. We'd then have our Cornish pasties imported from Texas or some such place. I can't think of anything worse.
Why would we need to import Pasties while Cornwall is still part of the UK?
They've a load more cows and wheat in America. The cornish pastie market will be flooded with cheap US imports. The homegrown industry will be unable to compete and Cornwall will become a wasteland.
Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?
Boris yes, but Gove ?
He's repeatedly said he doesn't want it.
Not only that, Miss P, Gove has said more than once the he does not have the qualities required of a Party Leader. So he not only doesn't want the job but he knows he would be rubbish at it. However, no matter how often this is pointed out some denizens of this site still keep mentioning him as a future leader of the Conservative Party.
I'm not sure I'm talking to you after your rather rude remarks on the last thread. Criticising both the City *and* the EIC in the same sentence!
I am sorry, Mr. Charles, but much as I love the City (and I really do) it would be wrong to ignore its failures and, it has to be said, the fact(?) that it has not been a nett long term benefit for the the UK.
I'd love to come up to Town and debate this with you and we can go back to Gresham, and the later founding of certain banks, and discuss how the good and bad aspects the City have had on the UK. Of course, such a debate would take many hours and probably as many bottles of wine and neither your busy life nor my eyesight would permit that.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
"Well done Corbyn , your best speech yet!" "I'm glad you liked it." "I didn't say that."
''I can't quite understand what's got into him. Years of superb CameronDirects and urbane media appearances - now he's getting all huffy, stroppy and rude when challenged.''
MS Plato, Having won an election against the odds and having destroyed his enemies, David Cameron probably feels he should be master of all he surveys.
And with some justification, perhaps?
If that's how he feels, he's making a total hash of his media relations. He's got all the talent to do this well - and yet getting all uppity and defensive. Someone in his team should tell him straight - he's getting a reputation for it. Never thought I'd be typing this. He knows so much better.
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
have you never argued with a woman? (getting coat)
True. Secret to a long term marriage = Learn to say sorry it was my fault.
Dr. Prasannan, tonight: Richard accidentally invades the Moon, James leaves the nuclear launch codes on the tube, and I challenge Donald Trump to a drag race.
''I can't quite understand what's got into him. Years of superb CameronDirects and urbane media appearances - now he's getting all huffy, stroppy and rude when challenged.''
MS Plato, Having won an election against the odds and having destroyed his enemies, David Cameron probably feels he should be master of all he surveys.
And with some justification, perhaps?
If that's how he feels, he's making a total hash of his media relations. He's got all the talent to do this well - and yet getting all uppity and defensive. Someone in his team should tell him straight - he's getting a reputation for it. Never thought I'd be typing this. He knows so much better.
Perhaps he's just seen the private polling for EU Ref.
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
have you never argued with a woman? (getting coat)
True. Secret to a long term marriage = Learn to say sorry it was my fault.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
lol. A classically silly tyson post. Bravo.
FWIW some people think Corbyn did this deliberately: that he wants LEAVE to win, partly because he is sincerely eurosceptic, and partly because he thinks - rightly - that this will consume the Tory party more than REMAIN.
I dunno. It seems a bit too Machiavellian and clever for Corbyn. If this was McDonnell, yes.
Too clever by half for Corbyn, you are quite right.
"A few months ago, the polling found Gove had the same net unfavourable ratings as Jeremy Corbyn, I would think this type of polling would deter Tory MPs and the Tory membership from electing Gove as leader, but when the Tory party is obsessed with the European Union, it leads to bad leadership results, as evidenced by the time they elected Iain Duncan Smith as leader".
For a party willing to impale themselves in order to smash the EU you shouldn't be looking at things logically.
It's arguably entirely logical.
This is only the second referendum in 40 years. Parties can come back from lost elections far more quickly (except perhaps the Lib Dems).
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
I've written my Saturday piece on that topic.
To summarise - you're looking at it the wrong way round.
Logic was something that completely escaped the Labour party membership last summer, so it could happen again.
Corbyn's allegedly pro Euro speech yesterday which he instead used to attack Osborne, at this time, with what is at stake, showed what an utterly ludicrous character he is. Corbyn is a caricature of a pain in the arse lefty that gets under your skin.
"A few months ago, the polling found Gove had the same net unfavourable ratings as Jeremy Corbyn, I would think this type of polling would deter Tory MPs and the Tory membership from electing Gove as leader, but when the Tory party is obsessed with the European Union, it leads to bad leadership results, as evidenced by the time they elected Iain Duncan Smith as leader".
For a party willing to impale themselves in order to smash the EU you shouldn't be looking at things logically.
I wouldn't be surprised if they gave it to IDS with Pierrepoint Patel as his deputy.
I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure. Agreed.
Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...
But who knows. We live in volatile times.
Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
what evidence is there of Theresa's competence tho?
She has survived at the Home Office - a very difficult job.
It was split in half - justice being removed right? and she has failed at her half. She's only survived cause Dave can't be arsed to reshuffle. I'm a bi pissed now so probably talking psih, mind
I share your view in part but I give her a pass because she did tackle the police federation etc and has been hampered by the lack of financial support etc from Osborne in tackling immigration. Ironically if Osborne had supported Cameron's tens of thousands promise, he, Osborne, would be closer to being Cameron's replacement. Instead Osborne is closer to the door.
That's very significant. If and when America finally gets round to doing a trade deal with us, no way will they do that regional-naming protection thing. We'd then have our Cornish pasties imported from Texas or some such place. I can't think of anything worse.
Why would we need to import Pasties while Cornwall is still part of the UK?
They've a load more cows and wheat in America. The cornish pastie market will be flooded with cheap US imports. The homegrown industry will be unable to compete and Cornwall will become a wasteland.
That's very significant. If and when America finally gets round to doing a trade deal with us, no way will they do that regional-naming protection thing. We'd then have our Cornish pasties imported from Texas or some such place. I can't think of anything worse.
Why would we need to import Pasties while Cornwall is still part of the UK?
They've a load more cows and wheat in America. The cornish pastie market will be flooded with cheap US imports. The homegrown industry will be unable to compete and Cornwall will become a wasteland.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
lol. A classically silly tyson post. Bravo.
FWIW some people think Corbyn did this deliberately: that he wants LEAVE to win, partly because he is sincerely eurosceptic, and partly because he thinks - rightly - that this will consume the Tory party more than REMAIN.
I dunno. It seems a bit too Machiavellian and clever for Corbyn. If this was McDonnell, yes.
True. We can add Corbyn to the list, along with Nicola Sturgeon, of British politicians who are gagging for a Leave triumph despite pronouncements to the contrary.
Miss Plato, Cameron probably fears his all-conquering army is about to meet the fate of Bayezid I.
The Ottoman Sultan was poised to conquer Byzantium around the turn of 1400. But then, Tamerlane rolled up (think a 14th/15th century Genghis Khan), obliterated the Ottoman army, and took Bayezid prisoner (the Sultan reportedly spent the rest of his life as a foot stool, and went insane with rage).
Byzantium fell about half a century later, but the reprieve must have felt like fate at the time.
Dr. Prasannan, tonight: Richard accidentally invades the Moon, James leaves the nuclear launch codes on the tube, and I challenge Donald Trump to a drag race.
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
have you never argued with a woman? (getting coat)
True. Secret to a long term marriage = Learn to say sorry it was my fault.
Gove will do fine. I doubt the audience will be as hostile as the one Cameron faced. It's not as if Remainers have the same passion for this as Leavers do.
I suspect he will get a lot of stuff about what happens after a Brexit vote and what guarantees he can give that everything will be OK.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
As I said yesterday, knowing Corbyn is for Leave confirms to me that I am right to support Remain.
But Gerry Adams is for REMAIN. So is Tony Blair...
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
have you never argued with a woman? (getting coat)
True. Secret to a long term marriage = Learn to say sorry it was my fault.
My wife and I have had 15 happy years together - our son is 25.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
As I said yesterday, knowing Corbyn is for Leave confirms to me that I am right to support Remain.
But Gerry Adams is for REMAIN. So is Tony Blair...
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
have you never argued with a woman? (getting coat)
True. Secret to a long term marriage = Learn to say sorry it was my fault.
My wife and I have had 15 happy years together - our son is 25.
"A few months ago, the polling found Gove had the same net unfavourable ratings as Jeremy Corbyn, I would think this type of polling would deter Tory MPs and the Tory membership from electing Gove as leader, but when the Tory party is obsessed with the European Union, it leads to bad leadership results, as evidenced by the time they elected Iain Duncan Smith as leader".
For a party willing to impale themselves in order to smash the EU you shouldn't be looking at things logically.
It's arguably entirely logical.
This is only the second referendum in 40 years. Parties can come back from lost elections far more quickly (except perhaps the Lib Dems).
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
I've written my Saturday piece on that topic.
To summarise - you're looking at it the wrong way round.
The idea that he knows we are supposed to be on the same side yet is doing his level best to undermine Remain while claiming to support its case credits him with far too much intelligence David.
I'll look forward to reading your thread anyway – I very often enjoy them.
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
I think he'd have expected an easier contest when he first promised the referendum but since then:
the refugee crisis has exploded Labour has elected a joke leader who can't (or won't) hold up his end of the plank Boris has come out for Leave
which make it a lot harder.
I would say Leave should be no longer than 13/8 now. (I've been pondering this as I saw Mike's tweet that he had closed down his Leave punt last night. He' s probably right but it's too soon for me.)
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
As I said yesterday, knowing Corbyn is for Leave confirms to me that I am right to support Remain.
But Gerry Adams is for REMAIN. So is Tony Blair...
I suspect that Gerry Adams would have very little problem with a Leave vote. It would accelerate the process of Irish reunification, given that Leave have said that the current open border between north and south will remain on Brexit.
Dr. Prasannan, tonight: Richard accidentally invades the Moon, James leaves the nuclear launch codes on the tube, and I challenge Donald Trump to a drag race.
- and Chris Evans shouts, and is dressed like he should be fighting in Clacton on a bank holiday.
Mr. Wanderer, you missed off Cameron blowing his own credibility with a pathetic 'renegotiation' and overblown scare stories that make his previous suggestion he might recommend we Leave look disingenuous at best.
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
I think he'd have expected an easier contest when he first promised the referendum but since then:
the refugee crisis has exploded Labour has elected a joke leader who can't (or won't) hold up his end of the plank Boris has come out for Leave
which make it a lot harder.
I would say Leave should be no longer than 13/8 now. (I've been pondering this as I saw Mike's tweet that he had closed down his Leave punt last night. He' s probably right but it's too soon for me.)
Cameron clearly could not see that immigration would be the defining issue of the campaign. That makes him a complete fool. I am very happy with my 4-1 on Leave to win, and my 7-1 for them to win on a turnout of less than 65% (with an 8-1 saver for them to win on a turnout of over 65%).
Corbybn is so thick that he doesn't realise that if Brexit wins he is done for too- the Tory leadership will change quickly and put him to the sword in September.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
lol. A classically silly tyson post. Bravo.
FWIW some people think Corbyn did this deliberately: that he wants LEAVE to win, partly because he is sincerely eurosceptic, and partly because he thinks - rightly - that this will consume the Tory party more than REMAIN.
I dunno. It seems a bit too Machiavellian and clever for Corbyn. If this was McDonnell, yes.
Too clever by half for Corbyn, you are quite right.
Miss Plato, Cameron probably fears his all-conquering army is about to meet the fate of Bayezid I.
The Ottoman Sultan was poised to conquer Byzantium around the turn of 1400. But then, Tamerlane rolled up (think a 14th/15th century Genghis Khan), obliterated the Ottoman army, and took Bayezid prisoner (the Sultan reportedly spent the rest of his life as a foot stool, and went insane with rage).
Byzantium fell about half a century later, but the reprieve must have felt like fate at the time.
Constantinople, Mr Dancer, renamed in honour of a famous son of Yorkshire, no doubt?
Mr. Wanderer, you missed off Cameron blowing his own credibility with a pathetic 'renegotiation' and overblown scare stories that make his previous suggestion he might recommend we Leave look disingenuous at best.
The renegotiation and the approach to the campaign would have been part of his plan, so not a surprise to him.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
As I said yesterday, knowing Corbyn is for Leave confirms to me that I am right to support Remain.
But Gerry Adams is for REMAIN. So is Tony Blair...
I suspect that Gerry Adams would have very little problem with a Leave vote. It would accelerate the process of Irish reunification, given that Leave have said that the current open border between north and south will remain on Brexit.
Accelerate from year n+1 to year n+0.999....
Ireland is more likely to leave the EU than be reunified.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
I thought his speech wasn't at all helpful for Remain but that's the least of the damage he's doing.
The Tories would have hoofed out the loonies weeks ago if they'd had a viable opposition.
I heard IDS call Cameron a liar this morning. With unelectable Corbyn in charge why not?
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
I think he'd have expected an easier contest when he first promised the referendum but since then:
the refugee crisis has exploded Labour has elected a joke leader who can't (or won't) hold up his end of the plank Boris has come out for Leave
which make it a lot harder.
I would say Leave should be no longer than 13/8 now. (I've been pondering this as I saw Mike's tweet that he had closed down his Leave punt last night. He' s probably right but it's too soon for me.)
Cameron clearly could not see that immigration would be the defining issue of the campaign. That makes him a complete fool. I am very happy with my 4-1 on Leave to win, and my 7-1 for them to win on a turnout of less than 65% (with an 8-1 saver for them to win on a turnout of over 65%).
He probably could see it but it's one thing to predict and another to counter it. How would you counter it?
Dr. Prasannan, I tend to call it Byzantium. I prefer the name. And most of -oples have faded to obscurity (an exception of cities named after people is Thessalonica, named by Cassander after his wife).
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
As I said yesterday, knowing Corbyn is for Leave confirms to me that I am right to support Remain.
But Gerry Adams is for REMAIN. So is Tony Blair...
I suspect that Gerry Adams would have very little problem with a Leave vote. It would accelerate the process of Irish reunification, given that Leave have said that the current open border between north and south will remain on Brexit.
Who cares what leave think about the border? It will be up to the British and Irish governments if they want an open border.
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
Remainers need to calm down. There has been an ICM and ORB poll showing a swing to Leave over the bank holiday, with lots of health warnings, and that's it.
However, we do know that Cameron et al expected the deal to be received much better than it was, to only have 70-80 BOO'er MPs to deal with and no big beasts, for Project Fear to work more effectively than it has, so far, and to win very clearly by 60%+ and thus close the issue down for a generation and rope the Right in, for good.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
Exactly. That is precisely right. The self-serving idiot seems to forget we are all supposed to be on the same side. Once a eurosceptic...
As I said yesterday, knowing Corbyn is for Leave confirms to me that I am right to support Remain.
But Gerry Adams is for REMAIN. So is Tony Blair...
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
have you never argued with a woman? (getting coat)
True. Secret to a long term marriage = Learn to say sorry it was my fault.
Doing what one is told is generally easiest.
Yup, I'd go along with that, but one needs to develop strategies that allow Her to think you are doing what you are told whilst at the same time being able to do at least some of what you want to do.
Also cats. Get her at least one kitten, preferably two. That will keep the conversations on safe subjects for at least ten years, which knocks out most causes of conflict. Also they give her something to worry about, other than children, money, mortgages and all that stuff.
Here endeth the HurstLlama's marriage guidance counsellors lesson No 1.
Now, back to today, Herself will be home in about half an hour so I have to go and get on with the list she left me so that when she comes in I will have done a couple of things and be able to talk about the thing I am doing at the time. That will distract her enough from asking about all the things on the list I haven't done and what I have been doing with my time all day.
Yes, she probably does see through my ploys but we have been married 35 years so it seems to work well enough.
So I am off. Thank one and all for some cracking conversation today and as always play nicely.
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
Remainers need to calm down. There has been an ICM and ORB poll showing a swing to Leave over the bank holiday, with lots of health warnings, and that's it.
However, we do know that Cameron et al expected the deal to be received much better than it was, to only have 70-80 BOO'er MPs to deal with and no big beasts, for Project Fear to work more effectively than it has, so far, and to win very clearly by 60%+ and thus close the issue down for a generation and rope the Right in, for good.
That is looking very unlikely to happen.
I agree with all that. It's why I would still make Remain favourite and why Mike's tweet made me quite thoughtful.
we do know that Cameron et al expected the deal to be received much better than it was, to only have 70-80 BOO'er MPs to deal with and no big beasts, for Project Fear to work more effectively than it has, so far, and to win very clearly by 60%+ and thus close the issue down for a generation and rope the Right in, for good.
We don't know any of those things.
They are what you might expect behind door number 2, but they are not indisputable facts
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
I think he'd have expected an easier contest when he first promised the referendum but since then:
the refugee crisis has exploded Labour has elected a joke leader who can't (or won't) hold up his end of the plank Boris has come out for Leave
which make it a lot harder.
I would say Leave should be no longer than 13/8 now. (I've been pondering this as I saw Mike's tweet that he had closed down his Leave punt last night. He' s probably right but it's too soon for me.)
Polls last year showed Remain with c.30% leads on a renegotiated deal
Both the UK Government and the EU have seriously fucked this up.
Mr. Wanderer, you missed off Cameron blowing his own credibility with a pathetic 'renegotiation' and overblown scare stories that make his previous suggestion he might recommend we Leave look disingenuous at best.
Why are you so surprised now ? He and Osbo did the same in two GE campaigns.
I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure. Agreed.
Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...
But who knows. We live in volatile times.
Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
what evidence is there of Theresa's competence tho?
She has survived at the Home Office - a very difficult job.
It was split in half - justice being removed right? and she has failed at her half. She's only survived cause Dave can't be arsed to reshuffle. I'm a bi pissed now so probably talking psih, mind
I share your view in part but I give her a pass because she did tackle the police federation etc and has been hampered by the lack of financial support etc from Osborne in tackling immigration. Ironically if Osborne had supported Cameron's tens of thousands promise, he, Osborne, would be closer to being Cameron's replacement. Instead Osborne is closer to the door.
Nevertheless, non-EU immigration is 50% higher than the total immigration target. As procedures for non-EU immigration are entirely within the remit of the Home Office, she has clearly failed at that part of her job. Really, she's been lucky EU immigration was so high, which has distracted from how big the miss was.
Corbybn is so thick that he doesn't realise that if Brexit wins he is done for too- the Tory leadership will change quickly and put him to the sword in September.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
lol. A classically silly tyson post. Bravo.
FWIW some people think Corbyn did this deliberately: that he wants LEAVE to win, partly because he is sincerely eurosceptic, and partly because he thinks - rightly - that this will consume the Tory party more than REMAIN.
I dunno. It seems a bit too Machiavellian and clever for Corbyn. If this was McDonnell, yes.
Too clever by half for Corbyn, you are quite right.
Wishful thinking. Cameron has already put him to the sword. Sadly, he is still there!
I missed this, I suspect that more of Labour's working class voters will have seen this than the Sky News performance. Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Is asking to be allowed to answer the question an unfortunate way of handling women?
have you never argued with a woman? (getting coat)
True. Secret to a long term marriage = Learn to say sorry it was my fault.
Doing what one is told is generally easiest.
Yup, I'd go along with that, but one needs to develop strategies that allow Her to think you are doing what you are told whilst at the same time being able to do at least some of what you want to do.
Also cats. Get her at least one kitten, preferably two. That will keep the conversations on safe subjects for at least ten years, which knocks out most causes of conflict. Also they give her something to worry about, other than children, money, mortgages and all that stuff.
Here endeth the HurstLlama's marriage guidance counsellors lesson No 1.
Now, back to today, Herself will be home in about half an hour so I have to go and get on with the list she left me so that when she comes in I will have done a couple of things and be able to talk about the thing I am doing at the time. That will distract her enough from asking about all the things on the list I haven't done and what I have been doing with my time all day.
Yes, she probably does see through my ploys but we have been married 35 years so it seems to work well enough.
So I am off. Thank one and all for some cracking conversation today and as always play nicely.
That's the problem with women. They give you a simple task to do then feel that they need to remind you about it every six months for decades!
On topic - there is only one Conservative (any party?) politician who seems to have come out of the Referendum with their reputation enhanced. A principled stand for Leaving the EU, but not prepared to deliver leaflets with "dodgy statistics about the NHS". Somebody who has been a fully paid up member of the awkward squad during the Cameron-Osborne years. But someone who could unite the party post referendum.
Someone who would strike fear into Labour and LibDems strategists. Someone who took on a constituency-wide open primary - and won the chance to fight against the LibDems in a marginal seat. And has now crushed them into fifth place, hoovering up their vote to get a majority of nearly 18,400 last year.
Somebody who was not a career politician, but had years of real world experience. Somebody who came late to politics and claimed their qualifications were "only real life experience, approachability and enthusiasm". Oh that there were 400 more of them in Westminster.
Somebody who may not have Cabinet experience, but does chair the Parliamentary Health Select Committee. They could kill off Labour hopes of making the NHS their own again.
Somebody who would have a head start with women voters.
I give you Dr Sarah Wollaston. Great value at 66-1...
You are absolutely right. The fact that Corbyn is Labour leader allows the Tory to behave as they please knowing there will not be any electoral consequences.
Corbyn is a free pass for the Tories to indulge in the most terrible civil war about their favourite subject
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
I thought his speech wasn't at all helpful for Remain but that's the least of the damage he's doing.
The Tories would have hoofed out the loonies weeks ago if they'd had a viable opposition.
I heard IDS call Cameron a liar this morning. With unelectable Corbyn in charge why not?
Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?
Boris yes, but Gove ?
He's repeatedly said he doesn't want it.
Not only that, Miss P, Gove has said more than once the he does not have the qualities required of a Party Leader. So he not only doesn't want the job but he knows he would be rubbish at it. However, no matter how often this is pointed out some denizens of this site still keep mentioning him as a future leader of the Conservative Party.
I'm not sure I'm talking to you after your rather rude remarks on the last thread. Criticising both the City *and* the EIC in the same sentence!
I am sorry, Mr. Charles, but much as I love the City (and I really do) it would be wrong to ignore its failures and, it has to be said, the fact(?) that it has not been a nett long term benefit for the the UK.
I'd love to come up to Town and debate this with you and we can go back to Gresham, and the later founding of certain banks, and discuss how the good and bad aspects the City have had on the UK. Of course, such a debate would take many hours and probably as many bottles of wine and neither your busy life nor my eyesight would permit that.
But surely someone of your experience can identify the wine by the taste so you don't need to see the label?
I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure. Agreed.
Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...
But who knows. We live in volatile times.
Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
what evidence is there of Theresa's competence tho?
She has survived at the Home Office - a very difficult job.
It was split in half - justice being removed right? and she has failed at her half. She's only survived cause Dave can't be arsed to reshuffle. I'm a bi pissed now so probably talking psih, mind
I share your view in part but I give her a pass because she did tackle the police federation etc and has been hampered by the lack of financial support etc from Osborne in tackling immigration. Ironically if Osborne had supported Cameron's tens of thousands promise, he, Osborne, would be closer to being Cameron's replacement. Instead Osborne is closer to the door.
Nevertheless, non-EU immigration is 50% higher than the total immigration target. As procedures for non-EU immigration are entirely within the remit of the Home Office, she has clearly failed at that part of her job. Really, she's been lucky EU immigration was so high, which has distracted from how big the miss was.
The resources have been cut back at a time when they had successive election pledges to cut to tens of thousands. The Border "police" needed to be beefed up not cut. There are also other compromises on legislation and following various directives etc.
Corbybn is so thick that he doesn't realise that if Brexit wins he is done for too- the Tory leadership will change quickly and put him to the sword in September.
Last night I posted here that Corbyn's speech yesterday was his best yet- with his critique of Osborne's economic claims of a Brexit . But after thinking about it, Corbyn is such an idiot, a stupid man. He used his opportunity to make a case for the Euro to instead make cheap, crowd pleasing shots at Osborne. With such a tight vote looming this shows such lack of judgement, and lack of intelligence.
lol. A classically silly tyson post. Bravo.
FWIW some people think Corbyn did this deliberately: that he wants LEAVE to win, partly because he is sincerely eurosceptic, and partly because he thinks - rightly - that this will consume the Tory party more than REMAIN.
I dunno. It seems a bit too Machiavellian and clever for Corbyn. If this was McDonnell, yes.
Too clever by half for Corbyn, you are quite right.
Wishful thinking. Cameron has already put him to the sword. Sadly, he is still there!
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
I think he'd have expected an easier contest when he first promised the referendum but since then:
the refugee crisis has exploded Labour has elected a joke leader who can't (or won't) hold up his end of the plank Boris has come out for Leave
which make it a lot harder.
I would say Leave should be no longer than 13/8 now. (I've been pondering this as I saw Mike's tweet that he had closed down his Leave punt last night. He' s probably right but it's too soon for me.)
Cameron clearly could not see that immigration would be the defining issue of the campaign. That makes him a complete fool. I am very happy with my 4-1 on Leave to win, and my 7-1 for them to win on a turnout of less than 65% (with an 8-1 saver for them to win on a turnout of over 65%).
He probably could see it but it's one thing to predict and another to counter it. How would you counter it?
With where we are now, it can't be countered. That's why Leave is likely to win. Someone thinking strategically, though, would not have played a pivotal role in helping to build the anti-immigrant narrative in the first place - especially while knowing that the government needed large scale immigration to have a chance of hitting its fiscal and economic targets.
Nobody on LEAVE is complacent. REMAIN is still odds on favourite if for no other reason than REMAIN has all the levers of state at their disposal.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
I'd still make Remain 2/1 favourites, but certainly, Cameron would have expected a far easier contest.
Remainers need to calm down. There has been an ICM and ORB poll showing a swing to Leave over the bank holiday, with lots of health warnings, and that's it.
However, we do know that Cameron et al expected the deal to be received much better than it was, to only have 70-80 BOO'er MPs to deal with and no big beasts, for Project Fear to work more effectively than it has, so far, and to win very clearly by 60%+ and thus close the issue down for a generation and rope the Right in, for good.
Logic was something that completely escaped the Labour party membership last summer, so it could happen again.
Corbyn's allegedly pro Euro speech yesterday which he instead used to attack Osborne, at this time, with what is at stake, showed what an utterly ludicrous character he is. Corbyn is a caricature of a pain in the arse lefty that gets under your skin.
"A few months ago, the polling found Gove had the same net unfavourable ratings as Jeremy Corbyn, I would think this type of polling would deter Tory MPs and the Tory membership from electing Gove as leader, but when the Tory party is obsessed with the European Union, it leads to bad leadership results, as evidenced by the time they elected Iain Duncan Smith as leader".
For a party willing to impale themselves in order to smash the EU you shouldn't be looking at things logically.
I wouldn't be surprised if they gave it to IDS with Pierrepoint Patel as his deputy.
The Addams Family Dream Ticket
Maybe you are being unfair to Corbyn this time.
Remember the following:
Labour lost the working class in Scotland by appearing too close to the Tories in the referendum.
The Labour working class vote in the northern heartlands are euro-sceptic from head to toe as recent canvassing has more than demonstrated.
The last thing Corbyn should have done is parrot the same old lines as the rest of the RemaIN camp. He had to differentiate himself. Also he had to use simple examples and not GDP / Rebate / Gross vs Net etc.
Beach cleanliness, bees may be laughable to many metrosexuals but they are tangible proofs understood by many. He had to attack Osborne in the same breath. Attacking Osborne does not negate the RemaIN message. After all, everyone hates Osbo.
So, maybe some thought went into the speech. I am not a supporter of Corbyn. Didn't even vote for him as No.4 but I think giving an identikit speech for RemaiN would have hurt the campaign, not helped it.
I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure. Agreed.
Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...
But who knows. We live in volatile times.
Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
what evidence is there of Theresa's competence tho?
She has survived at the Home Office - a very difficult job.
It was split in half - justice being removed right? and she has failed at her half. She's only survived cause Dave can't be arsed to reshuffle. I'm a bi pissed now so probably talking psih, mind
I share your view in part but I give her a pass because she did tackle the police federation etc and has been hampered by the lack of financial support etc from Osborne in tackling immigration. Ironically if Osborne had supported Cameron's tens of thousands promise, he, Osborne, would be closer to being Cameron's replacement. Instead Osborne is closer to the door.
Nevertheless, non-EU immigration is 50% higher than the total immigration target. As procedures for non-EU immigration are entirely within the remit of the Home Office, she has clearly failed at that part of her job. Really, she's been lucky EU immigration was so high, which has distracted from how big the miss was.
I wish governments would stop talking about controlling net migration when it's entirely dependent on how many people are leaving. And unless we start placing restrictions on British nationals returning we don't have complete control of arrivals either. If you want 10s of 1000s net then the only guarantee is to limit new (non- British) arrivals to about 50000 per year.
Apart from the incoherent grammar of TSE's first paragraph two things stand out.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.
Comments
Cameron's unfortunate way of handling women.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7191042/David-Cameron-snaps-at-Kate-Garraway-during-fiesty-EU-discussion-about-immigration.html
As reported in the Sun "DAVID Cameron has been blasted by television viewers after he reprimanded Kate Garraway on Good Morning Britain during a heated debate about the EU referendum."
If only they put Cameron in front of Mrs Duffy.
Fuso class = 14 inch
Ise class = 14 inch
Nagato class = 16 inch
Yamato class = 18 inch
The fourth, Dream of the Red Chamber/Story in the Stone, I started but found bloody tedious.
Here are a couple of my reviews:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/review-outlaws-of-marsh.html
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/review-three-kingdoms-by-luo-guanzhong.html
Miss Plato, looks interesting. There are a few different versions of the book, but the extra stuff with Fang La's men (who is in the version I read) seems a change.
It does now appear that we've got a genuine contest (which I think Cameron realized for the first time last night) but REMAIN very much favourites of course.
BTW. Just saw remain campaigners outside work as I was popping out for lunch.
Exchange between us went like this:
- "Would you be interested in a Vote REMAIN leaflet?"
- "I'm voting LEAVE, thank you!"
- "Have a nice day!"
Too much time with YesMen, me thinks. The tightly managed/no media tours of factories hasn't helped him at all.
"A few months ago, the polling found Gove had the same net unfavourable ratings as Jeremy Corbyn, I would think this type of polling would deter Tory MPs and the Tory membership from electing Gove as leader, but when the Tory party is obsessed with the European Union, it leads to bad leadership results, as evidenced by the time they elected Iain Duncan Smith as leader".
For a party willing to impale themselves in order to smash the EU you shouldn't be looking at things logically.
I wouldn't be surprised if they gave it to IDS with Pierrepoint Patel as his deputy.
The Addams Family Dream Ticket
MS Plato, Having won an election against the odds and having destroyed his enemies, David Cameron probably feels he should be master of all he surveys.
And with some justification, perhaps?
There is one person on here who knows people who have come across Osborne and Cameron and say that Osborne is far more polite.
I'd love to come up to Town and debate this with you and we can go back to Gresham, and the later founding of certain banks, and discuss how the good and bad aspects the City have had on the UK. Of course, such a debate would take many hours and probably as many bottles of wine and neither your busy life nor my eyesight would permit that.
"I'm glad you liked it."
"I didn't say that."
Mr SO, I wonder if that will turn quite a few soft tory leavers back to remain. It made me stop and think, I don;t mind admitting.
This is only the second referendum in 40 years. Parties can come back from lost elections far more quickly (except perhaps the Lib Dems). I've written my Saturday piece on that topic.
To summarise - you're looking at it the wrong way round.
Corbyn's allegedly pro Euro speech yesterday which he instead used to attack Osborne, at this time, with what is at stake, showed what an utterly ludicrous character he is. Corbyn is a caricature of a pain in the arse lefty that gets under your skin.
The Ottoman Sultan was poised to conquer Byzantium around the turn of 1400. But then, Tamerlane rolled up (think a 14th/15th century Genghis Khan), obliterated the Ottoman army, and took Bayezid prisoner (the Sultan reportedly spent the rest of his life as a foot stool, and went insane with rage).
Byzantium fell about half a century later, but the reprieve must have felt like fate at the time.
I suspect he will get a lot of stuff about what happens after a Brexit vote and what guarantees he can give that everything will be OK.
I do hope I don't need to hide behind the sofa.
I'll look forward to reading your thread anyway – I very often enjoy them.
the refugee crisis has exploded
Labour has elected a joke leader who can't (or won't) hold up his end of the plank
Boris has come out for Leave
which make it a lot harder.
I would say Leave should be no longer than 13/8 now. (I've been pondering this as I saw Mike's tweet that he had closed down his Leave punt last night. He' s probably right but it's too soon for me.)
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Ireland is more likely to leave the EU than be reunified.
The Tories would have hoofed out the loonies weeks ago if they'd had a viable opposition.
I heard IDS call Cameron a liar this morning. With unelectable Corbyn in charge why not?
However, we do know that Cameron et al expected the deal to be received much better than it was, to only have 70-80 BOO'er MPs to deal with and no big beasts, for Project Fear to work more effectively than it has, so far, and to win very clearly by 60%+ and thus close the issue down for a generation and rope the Right in, for good.
That is looking very unlikely to happen.
Northern Ireland's largest trade union, NIPSA, has just voted to campaign to leave the EU. #Leave #EURef #Brexit #Lexit
Also cats. Get her at least one kitten, preferably two. That will keep the conversations on safe subjects for at least ten years, which knocks out most causes of conflict. Also they give her something to worry about, other than children, money, mortgages and all that stuff.
Here endeth the HurstLlama's marriage guidance counsellors lesson No 1.
Now, back to today, Herself will be home in about half an hour so I have to go and get on with the list she left me so that when she comes in I will have done a couple of things and be able to talk about the thing I am doing at the time. That will distract her enough from asking about all the things on the list I haven't done and what I have been doing with my time all day.
Yes, she probably does see through my ploys but we have been married 35 years so it seems to work well enough.
So I am off. Thank one and all for some cracking conversation today and as always play nicely.
Surely that's Liam Fox?
Does anyone have any idea what the Tory electorate is like any more? What would they be looking for in a leader in the event of leave or remain.
They are what you might expect behind door number 2, but they are not indisputable facts
Both the UK Government and the EU have seriously fucked this up.
Someone who would strike fear into Labour and LibDems strategists. Someone who took on a constituency-wide open primary - and won the chance to fight against the LibDems in a marginal seat. And has now crushed them into fifth place, hoovering up their vote to get a majority of nearly 18,400 last year.
Somebody who was not a career politician, but had years of real world experience. Somebody who came late to politics and claimed their qualifications were "only real life experience, approachability and enthusiasm". Oh that there were 400 more of them in Westminster.
Somebody who may not have Cabinet experience, but does chair the Parliamentary Health Select Committee. They could kill off Labour hopes of making the NHS their own again.
Somebody who would have a head start with women voters.
I give you Dr Sarah Wollaston. Great value at 66-1...
Corbyn is a free pass for the Tories to indulge in the most terrible civil war about their favourite subject
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2011/04/27/should-we-be-wary-about-bank-holiday-polling/
Remember the following:
Labour lost the working class in Scotland by appearing too close to the Tories in the referendum.
The Labour working class vote in the northern heartlands are euro-sceptic from head to toe as recent canvassing has more than demonstrated.
The last thing Corbyn should have done is parrot the same old lines as the rest of the RemaIN camp. He had to differentiate himself. Also he had to use simple examples and not GDP / Rebate / Gross vs Net etc.
Beach cleanliness, bees may be laughable to many metrosexuals but they are tangible proofs understood by many. He had to attack Osborne in the same breath. Attacking Osborne does not negate the RemaIN message. After all, everyone hates Osbo.
So, maybe some thought went into the speech. I am not a supporter of Corbyn. Didn't even vote for him as No.4 but I think giving an identikit speech for RemaiN would have hurt the campaign, not helped it.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.