Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
Trifles like:
Our laws not being absolute Our leaders not being elected Our views not being taken seriously
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
Apart from the incoherent grammar of TSE's first paragraph two things stand out.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.
The new heroine , Soraya, of Kurdish descent, it seems, is herself being disingenuous. She assumes Turkey will be in the EU and no country can stop them.
28 vetoes are available !
Yet still our government supports the application.
Why is that, do you think?
Knowing full well that one of Cyprus, Greece, France and all the racist countries of Eastern Europe will provide the veto ?
Voting Leave would have been like voting Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
Trifles like:
Our laws not being absolute Our leaders not being elected Our views not being taken seriously
Well the country might just agree with you, in which case we will wake up on June 24th as a free country. If the UK electorate is so outraged about those issues, the Out vote share should be overwhelming.
As a sincere lefty, who believes in democracy - which I believe you are - you HAVE to vote OUT. And then you and I can REALLY argue about the future of OUR country, and may the best argument win.
The arguments that Remain use are very totalitarian. It's actually quite shocking when you take a step back. I don't buy it. I am not going to do what nanny tells me to do.
The issue for me is democratic accountability, however messy and imperfect the people are we will always be better off in the end.
The question is which route in this referendum delivers more democracy - in or out.
The leavers see that question as a no brainer. But for that to be the case Westminster would have to be the answer. I have problems with how Westminster has performed over my lifetime. So for me it isn't quite so clear cut.
The lack of any genuine European press or culture, or indeed a route to one, is a concern. There is no Faisal Islam equivalent on the EU stage and no sign of one.
That is where the question hangs for me.
Come on, Jonathan. DO IT.
If it helps, I'd readily accept a full Labour government elected by our own nation on a clear prospectus than I would a wet Tory one blaming its failings and making excuses for issues over which we did not have control on the undemocratic European Union.
And think about the solid message on democracy and the power of the people we'd be giving out right across the continent.
It's our one chance to make a real difference. For good.
Apart from the incoherent grammar of TSE's first paragraph two things stand out.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.
The new heroine , Soraya, of Kurdish descent, it seems, is herself being disingenuous. She assumes Turkey will be in the EU and no country can stop them.
28 vetoes are available !
Yet still our government supports the application.
Why is that, do you think?
Knowing full well that one of Cyprus, Greece, France and all the racist countries of Eastern Europe will provide the veto ?
Afraid that for once Britain might stand up for something? Lets take back some control.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
Absolutely. I think large parts of our history before 1973 were rather good.
And lets nail this lie about remain being the status quo. It isn't. Its a vote for more Brussels, for an EU army to become reality, for everyone to have a tax ID within the EU.......leading to harmonised (and higher) tax rates across the EU at the behest of France, for more interference in our domestic affairs from afar and for less legitimacy and accountability and democracy across the EU.
And if all that transpires, then it will have been with the blessing of the people of the UK. Because we, as a sovereign nation, can vote to leave the EU at any point.
I don't know about you, but having been born post-1975, this is the first chance I've had to express my opinion on solely remaining or leaving the EU in my lifetime!
Because...no political party has judged it to be a vote winner. Political parties are all about winning votes.
Apart from the incoherent grammar of TSE's first paragraph two things stand out.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.
The new heroine , Soraya, of Kurdish descent, it seems, is herself being disingenuous. She assumes Turkey will be in the EU and no country can stop them.
28 vetoes are available !
Yet still our government supports the application.
Why is that, do you think?
Knowing full well that one of Cyprus, Greece, France and all the racist countries of Eastern Europe will provide the veto ?
Afraid that for once Britain might stand up for something? Lets take back some control.
You mean, let's give up control of whether or not Turkey joins the EU? Remember that if the solution that comes out of the chaos post-Brexit is the EEA then we'll have to accept free movement anyway.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
Immigration is the most short term answer to long term problems.
And worse, it perpetuates and exacerbates many of these long terms problems
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
Unemployment is 1.7 million in the UK and around 6% even in London. If we can cut immigration it could become even lower.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
Immigration is the most short term answer to long term problems.
And worse, it perpetuates and exacerbates many of these long terms problems
As far as I can see, the acceptable face of Leave is saying it would happily swap every Polish plumber for a Syrian one.
No Leave campaigner apart from Nige has actually said they want less immigration.
I didn't say they were bold military innovators, just that they did innovate.
In the US civil war they had both trench warfare and far more open battles but in WW1 it ended up mostly as trench warfare from end to end. I don't think that the civil war had much of an answer to trench warfare other than it's costly.
I think any purely dispassionate review of the Western Front warfare would have to say that it resulted, whether at the behest of Generals or not (but in any case they did avail themselves of them), in an extraordinary number of warfare innovations:
1. tanks 2. military use of aircraft in reconnaissance, bombing, strafing and fighter roles and countermeasures for ground-based anti-aircraft measures and actions 3. elevation of military engineering to the highest ranks of warfare skills 4. military logistical systems to support total war on a year round basis (as opposed to warfare by campaigns as was common before General Sherman) 5. widespread use of submarines 6. introduction of aircraft carriers 7. large scale chemical warfare
I am sure I have missed some other major innovations, but just on the above, WWI did more to change the nature of warfare than any other single conflict.
As a sincere lefty, who believes in democracy - which I believe you are - you HAVE to vote OUT. And then you and I can REALLY argue about the future of OUR country, and may the best argument win.
The arguments that Remain use are very totalitarian. It's actually quite shocking when you take a step back. I don't buy it. I am not going to do what nanny tells me to do.
The issue for me is democratic accountability, however messy and imperfect the people are we will always be better off in the end.
The question is which route in this referendum delivers more democracy - in or out.
The leavers see that question as a no brainer. But for that to be the case Westminster would have to be the answer. I have problems with how Westminster has performed over my lifetime. So for me it isn't quite so clear cut.
The lack of any genuine European press or political culture, or indeed a route to one, is a concern. There is no Faisal Islam equivalent on the EU stage and no sign of one.
That is where the question hangs for me.
For me the issue is that we cannot kick the bums out. There is just no realistic mechanism to move the unelected Eurocracy.
It would be like waking up next to Nick Clegg. Every morning.
For the rest of your life.
Nick Clegg, watching you dress.
Every morning. Maybe telling you whether you could wear boxers or budgie smugglers today.
Apart from the incoherent grammar of TSE's first paragraph two things stand out.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.
The new heroine , Soraya, of Kurdish descent, it seems, is herself being disingenuous. She assumes Turkey will be in the EU and no country can stop them.
28 vetoes are available !
Yet still our government supports the application.
Why is that, do you think?
Knowing full well that one of Cyprus, Greece, France and all the racist countries of Eastern Europe will provide the veto ?
Vote Remain because other member states are racist?
Apart from the incoherent grammar of TSE's first paragraph two things stand out.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.
The new heroine , Soraya, of Kurdish descent, it seems, is herself being disingenuous. She assumes Turkey will be in the EU and no country can stop them.
28 vetoes are available !
Yet still our government supports the application.
Why is that, do you think?
Knowing full well that one of Cyprus, Greece, France and all the racist countries of Eastern Europe will provide the veto ?
Afraid that for once Britain might stand up for something? Lets take back some control.
You mean, let's give up control of whether or not Turkey joins the EU? Remember that if the solution that comes out of the chaos post-Brexit is the EEA then we'll have to accept free movement anyway.
Do you have a degree in tenuous linkage?
Yes, lets get out of a union that even considers including Turkey.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
Unemployment is 1.7 million in the UK and around 6% even in London. If we can cut immigration it could become even lower.
At 5.1% we are not far from the bounds of NAIRU, albeit I accept that few are worried about inflation atm. It nevertheless cuts wiggle room for the government.
Apart from the incoherent grammar of TSE's first paragraph two things stand out.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.
The new heroine , Soraya, of Kurdish descent, it seems, is herself being disingenuous. She assumes Turkey will be in the EU and no country can stop them.
28 vetoes are available !
Yet still our government supports the application.
Why is that, do you think?
Knowing full well that one of Cyprus, Greece, France and all the racist countries of Eastern Europe will provide the veto ?
Afraid that for once Britain might stand up for something? Lets take back some control.
You mean, let's give up control of whether or not Turkey joins the EU?
Given that our government wants Turkey to join, this isn't a convincing point.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
Piece Rates? No idea what you mean
Overcrowded schools? Labour and Tory Governments failed to prepare for a domestic baby boom they knew was coning.
Maternity Services? My wife had an excellent experience giving birth in a central London hospital, bit of hyperbole there.
House prices? That's mainly a function of planning laws and our NIMBY culture, not the EU
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
Absolutely. I think large parts of our history before 1973 were rather good.
And lets nail this lie about remain being the status quo. It isn't. Its a vote for more Brussels, for an EU army to become reality, for everyone to have a tax ID within the EU.......leading to harmonised (and higher) tax rates across the EU at the behest of France, for more interference in our domestic affairs from afar and for less legitimacy and accountability and democracy across the EU.
And if all that transpires, then it will have been with the blessing of the people of the UK. Because we, as a sovereign nation, can vote to leave the EU at any point.
I don't know about you, but having been born post-1975, this is the first chance I've had to express my opinion on solely remaining or leaving the EU in my lifetime!
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
It's gone way beyond a minor distraction, it's now majority cost.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
I've not noticed many Polish builders with BabyBjorns.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
Piece Rates? No idea what you mean
Overcrowded schools? Labour and Tory Governments failed to prepare for a domestic baby boom they knew was coning.
Maternity Services? My wife had an excellent experience giving birth in a central London hospital, bit of hyperbole there.
House prices? That's mainly a function of planning laws and our NIMBY culture, not the EU
You're allright Jack, seems to be the main conclusion i draw from that post.
Trump: Hillary Clinton is weak, scripted and should be in jail for what she did to our national security with the emails. I get why she did it - because she's a thief.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
I've not noticed many Polish builders with BabyBjorns.
64,000 babies born to EU mums each year in the UK.
Apart from the incoherent grammar of TSE's first paragraph two things stand out.
The first is that no-one out there thinks Cameron was confident and polished. He was floored by two people. One suggesting his personal reputation has been ruined. The other by a student telling him he's waffling. Nothing else about last night matters.
The second is this. Tory leaders take time to reach party consciousness let alone that of the public. If you had polled the general public 12 months before Cameron became leader he'd have polled 10000x less than Michael Gove now. No-one outside Westminster had heard of Cameron. Yes, Michael Gove was unpopular as Education Secretary, but since then his stock has been gradually rising. It remains to be seen whether he could become a popular leader if the situation arises. It's far too soon to be writing him, or any others off.
Now can we get back to the EU referendum. And for goodness sake swallow your egos and put some flipping balance into the thread headers. The country is balanced on this. Pb.com drags itself down by constantly cheerleading for Remain, especially when many of your punters seem to hold a contrary view.
The new heroine , Soraya, of Kurdish descent, it seems, is herself being disingenuous. She assumes Turkey will be in the EU and no country can stop them.
28 vetoes are available !
Yet still our government supports the application.
Why is that, do you think?
Knowing full well that one of Cyprus, Greece, France and all the racist countries of Eastern Europe will provide the veto ?
Vote Remain because other member states are racist?
This is what I can't understand from the Remain side they are saying we need to stay in because if we leave the other countries will spite us. It's a bit like telling someone they should stay with an abusive partner otherwise he will lash out at you. No thanx!
Overall, I've really warmed to Gove - always thought he was too swotty before. He's shown a much warmer sincere side.
The audience said they liked him and it was interesting to hear him. Total contrast with Cameron who got a total mauling. Funny ole world.
The Sky programme was poorly managed. It allowed the interviewer to take a hostile approach and encouraged the audience to be rowdy. All the better for viewing figures?
Saw a nice big Vote Leave banner in solidly Tory Goffs Oak on the side of a house on my drive home this afternoon, looked approx 3x2M It should get plenty of eyeballs on it as it's quite a busy road and a 30mph speed limit.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
I've not noticed many Polish builders with BabyBjorns.
64,000 babies born to EU mums each year in the UK.
Barely 10% of the overall birth rate, and many of the fathers will be British citizens. And EU presumably includes Irish?
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
It's gone way beyond a minor distraction, it's now majority cost.
Sizeable percentage of the mothers born outside the EU I would imagine in London.
Interestingly my partner who previously said he didn't like Gove, got quite angry with Faisal Islam called him an "arrogant f___". He's still on the fence but I'll try to work on him nearer the time.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
It's gone way beyond a minor distraction, it's now majority cost.
Sizeable percentage of the mothers born outside the EU I would imagine in London.
Indeed, and as stated above many of them partners of British citizens.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
It's gone way beyond a minor distraction, it's now majority cost.
Sizeable percentage of the mothers born outside the EU I would imagine in London.
Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
It's gone way beyond a minor distraction, it's now majority cost.
Sizeable percentage of the mothers born outside the EU I would imagine in London.
Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.
My point being that leaving the EU won't make an enormous difference to the number of babies born in London with mothers born outside the UK.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
It's gone way beyond a minor distraction, it's now majority cost.
Sizeable percentage of the mothers born outside the EU I would imagine in London.
Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.
Nigel Lawson is voting leave but wants to remain inside himself!
@tnewtondunn: EXCL: David Cameron's former guru Steve Hilton challenges him to a TV debate - as he joins the Vote Leave team; https://t.co/o5lF28BhTF
That's interesting.
Cameron will not do it, but if that is brought up enough times I wonder what mileage it will get.
There is a debate nearly every evening from Monday on. No one outside the bubble has a clue who Steve Hilton is and it simply will not get any traction. After tonight the result will depend on which wins, the economy or immigration, and in most elections 'it is the economy stupid'
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
@tnewtondunn: EXCL: David Cameron's former guru Steve Hilton challenges him to a TV debate - as he joins the Vote Leave team; https://t.co/o5lF28BhTF
That's interesting.
Cameron will not do it, but if that is brought up enough times I wonder what mileage it will get.
There is a debate nearly every evening from Monday on. No one outside the bubble has a clue who Steve Hilton is and it simply will not get any traction. After tonight the result will depend on which wins, the economy or immigration, and in most elections 'it is the economy stupid'
It is but people have been genuinely shocked by the immigration numbers.
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
@maitlis: Tonight- #newsnight as Michael Gove tells us " we've had enough of experts" We ask panel if it makes the LEAVE campaign stronger or weaker
@alexmassie: @maitlis "we've had enough of experts" is a sentiment that leads, eventually, to Trump.
The problem is that the experts are not always right (I could provide a long list of experts who got it wrong) and also they make assumptions that may well be incorrect.
There is all sorts of modelling that goes on but the answers are only as good as both the model and indeed the numbers put in.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
It's gone way beyond a minor distraction, it's now majority cost.
Sizeable percentage of the mothers born outside the EU I would imagine in London.
Me and my mum and my dad all born outside the EU, all voting or leaning LEAVE.
These things can be catching. For instance, with maybe one exception, two or three dozen of our friends are voting to stay.
It makes you wonder how young people can survive in the world today. The NI number is a very important number when it comes to being employed, and not remembering it is a particularly poor excuse to not register.
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
@tnewtondunn: EXCL: David Cameron's former guru Steve Hilton challenges him to a TV debate - as he joins the Vote Leave team; https://t.co/o5lF28BhTF
That's interesting.
Cameron will not do it, but if that is brought up enough times I wonder what mileage it will get.
There is a debate nearly every evening from Monday on. No one outside the bubble has a clue who Steve Hilton is and it simply will not get any traction. After tonight the result will depend on which wins, the economy or immigration, and in most elections 'it is the economy stupid'
It is but people have been genuinely shocked by the immigration numbers.
They have but it would be more of a concern if unemployment was high which it is not at approx 5%
@maitlis: Tonight- #newsnight as Michael Gove tells us " we've had enough of experts" We ask panel if it makes the LEAVE campaign stronger or weaker
@alexmassie: @maitlis "we've had enough of experts" is a sentiment that leads, eventually, to Trump.
The problem is that the experts are not always right (I could provide a long list of experts who got it wrong) and also they make assumptions that may well be incorrect.
There is all sorts of modelling that goes on but the answers are only as good as both the model and indeed the numbers put in.
Voting Leave would be like having voted Labour in 2015. Plenty of feelgood factor about owls for all, but precious little detail on how they actually deliver the owl.
Same with Leave. Super turbo feelgood factor about Cry Freedom! Perhaps (only perhaps) people in the cold light of day will assess that it is too great a risk. Or perhaps not.
All this talk of "risk" about leaving the EU, it's almost like we've never been an independant country...
The benefit to the country of EU membership outweighs the minor inconveniences that we have to put up with by being a member.
Yeah, minor inconveniences like:
Piece rates being driven down Overcrowded schools Maternity services in chaos House prices driven sky high
All critical issues.
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
58% of all the births in London are now to mums who were born abroad.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
I've not noticed many Polish builders with BabyBjorns.
64,000 babies born to EU mums each year in the UK.
Barely 10% of the overall birth rate, and many of the fathers will be British citizens. And EU presumably includes Irish?
" and many of the fathers will be British citizens." Citation required.
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
It makes you wonder how young people can survive in the world today. The NI number is a very important number when it comes to being employed, and not remembering it is a particularly poor excuse to not register.
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
@tnewtondunn: EXCL: David Cameron's former guru Steve Hilton challenges him to a TV debate - as he joins the Vote Leave team; https://t.co/o5lF28BhTF
That's interesting.
Cameron will not do it, but if that is brought up enough times I wonder what mileage it will get.
There is a debate nearly every evening from Monday on. No one outside the bubble has a clue who Steve Hilton is and it simply will not get any traction. After tonight the result will depend on which wins, the economy or immigration, and in most elections 'it is the economy stupid'
It is but people have been genuinely shocked by the immigration numbers.
They have but it would be more of a concern if unemployment was high which it is not at approx 5%
To point to Labour's critique the people who are employed are frequently under employed whilst others (including the BoE) point to weak wage growth. Even Stuart Rose formerly of M&S said wages would rise if we left.
Interesting BBC are going with Gove's positive bits.
"Between 2001 and 2012 the number of live births increased by 23%."
Nationality information is within.
The Irish born population in the UK is in steady decline. Foreign born mums and dads broadly at 180,000 each in 2014.
A 23% increase in the birth rate would most likely have profound effects on the costs and resource requirements of the Education, Healthcare and Social Welfare systems.
Had a discussion with a couple of relatives on the EU who'd I'd assumed would be easily for Leave. One, a hardcore corbynista type anti-tory who thinks the tories only won the election through rigged postal votes but who is also massively anti-immigrant, the other one who has voted for everybody under the sun at some point but is also massively anti-immigrant and who voted to leave in '75.
Both were, to my surprise, uncertain and leaning Remain, worried about us getting screwed over by Europe if we do Leave.
Fortunately for Leave neither is registered to vote at present due to uncertainty as to which way they want it to go, although I urged them to do so regardless of which way they would vote.
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
Rod thinks the holocaust was slightly exaggerated. I tried to tell him once my living Uncle lost entire generations of women in his family- sisters, aunties, grand mother, mother, nieces at Aushwitz. They all entered as live, healthy human beings but quite strangely they all disappeared very quickly. I'm really at a loss of what could have caused this since according to Rod, the Nazi's were not in the business of exterminating Jews.
Comments
Our laws not being absolute
Our leaders not being elected
Our views not being taken seriously
Unemployment is the lowest in 30 years, employment the highest for 45 years.
Governments for decades have committed to and then not invested in infrastructure (look at social housing for the obvious poster issue). It hasn't happened and the number of people in the UK growing a bit more or a bit less is a distraction from the failure of successive governments to do so.
If it helps, I'd readily accept a full Labour government elected by our own nation on a clear prospectus than I would a wet Tory one blaming its failings and making excuses for issues over which we did not have control on the undemocratic European Union.
And think about the solid message on democracy and the power of the people we'd be giving out right across the continent.
It's our one chance to make a real difference. For good.
Unusual...
GO leaVE
And worse, it perpetuates and exacerbates many of these long terms problems
104 Fahrenheit in Redding...
No Leave campaigner apart from Nige has actually said they want less immigration.
1. tanks
2. military use of aircraft in reconnaissance, bombing, strafing and fighter roles and countermeasures for ground-based anti-aircraft measures and actions
3. elevation of military engineering to the highest ranks of warfare skills
4. military logistical systems to support total war on a year round basis (as opposed to warfare by campaigns as was common before General Sherman)
5. widespread use of submarines
6. introduction of aircraft carriers
7. large scale chemical warfare
I am sure I have missed some other major innovations, but just on the above, WWI did more to change the nature of warfare than any other single conflict.
It would be like waking up next to Nick Clegg. Every morning.
For the rest of your life.
Nick Clegg, watching you dress.
Every morning. Maybe telling you whether you could wear boxers or budgie smugglers today.
I really do find it that creepy.
A couple still confused and unconvinced but all said Gove was a nice guy, and they quite like him.
Yes, lets get out of a union that even considers including Turkey.
Overcrowded schools? Labour and Tory Governments failed to prepare for a domestic baby boom they knew was coning.
Maternity Services? My wife had an excellent experience giving birth in a central London hospital, bit of hyperbole there.
House prices? That's mainly a function of planning laws and our NIMBY culture, not the EU
Another big reason to Vote Leave is that it will royally fuck off the Blairites.
The audience said they liked him and it was interesting to hear him. Total contrast with Cameron who got a total mauling. Funny ole world.
Run the cost of that through NHS Maternity care, child protection, welfare payments for families, primary school places and teaching staff.
It's gone way beyond a minor distraction, it's now majority cost.
Night all.
A domain...
Edit: Same here = bedtime...NOT buying a Gove poster
I loved the book - thought I would hate the TV show.
It should get plenty of eyeballs on it as it's quite a busy road and a 30mph speed limit.
Of Trump's oratory. (^_-)
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result?selectionName=leave
Thanks for confirming my sanity...
Cameron will not do it, but if that is brought up enough times I wonder what mileage it will get.
@alexmassie: @maitlis "we've had enough of experts" is a sentiment that leads, eventually, to Trump.
And that ban applies to ALL bulbs...
There is all sorts of modelling that goes on but the answers are only as good as both the model and indeed the numbers put in.
A pitch to the Bernie fans and no mention of any other GOP candidate by name.
Focus 100% on Hillary.
Hahahaha
Completely, randomly, I have just eaten 4 bowls of rice crispies within about 10 minutes and feel very greedy.
Citation required.
And I say this as someone in my 20s*.
*Albeit laid up with a bad back
https://t.co/w3De8dWDXb https://t.co/e37TAQch6p
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/06/14/article-1286627-0A09686D000005DC-494_233x423.jpg
Interesting BBC are going with Gove's positive bits.
If you think it really is 30.07% chance then it is "no bet"...
http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/bulletins/parentscountryofbirthenglandandwales/2015-08-27#country-of-birth-of-foreign-born-fathers
"Between 2001 and 2012 the number of live births increased by 23%."
Nationality information is within.
The Irish born population in the UK is in steady decline. Foreign born mums and dads broadly at 180,000 each in 2014.
A 23% increase in the birth rate would most likely have profound effects on the costs and resource requirements of the Education, Healthcare and Social Welfare systems.
BTW, I voted UKIP (for the only time, mind!) as long ago as the Euro Elections in 2014.
Had a discussion with a couple of relatives on the EU who'd I'd assumed would be easily for Leave. One, a hardcore corbynista type anti-tory who thinks the tories only won the election through rigged postal votes but who is also massively anti-immigrant, the other one who has voted for everybody under the sun at some point but is also massively anti-immigrant and who voted to leave in '75.
Both were, to my surprise, uncertain and leaning Remain, worried about us getting screwed over by Europe if we do Leave.
Fortunately for Leave neither is registered to vote at present due to uncertainty as to which way they want it to go, although I urged them to do so regardless of which way they would vote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xCtI3gGP8Y
I cannot get my head around people from foreign backgrounds supporting Brexit. It just strikes me as mean spirited, and quite selfish.