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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Michael Gove’s very big night out

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited June 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Michael Gove’s very big night out

Tonight Michael Gove, who has led the ConHome readers’ vote to be next Tory leader for the last three will be putting the Leave side on Sky News.

Read the full story here


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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Former high-ranking Fifa officials Sepp Blatter, Jerome Valcke and Markus Kattner awarded themselves pay rises and bonuses worth $80m (£55m) over five years, say Fifa lawyers.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36445879
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?
  • Options

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    I think Gove is a much better bet as next Chancellor
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Leave had better hope he has mastered his brief - or Cameron's performance will be regarded as a model of rectitude. Going second has its advantages - unless you crash and burn.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    PlatoSaid said:

    Personally I would like to see the managed decline of the city anyway. If it was hit in the event of Brexit it would cause us some short term difficulties but I suspect it would be a good thing in the long run. Quite why people venerate it when it's rise over the last say 130 years has gone hand in hand with the arguable overall decline of UK plc is a mystery to me.

    0_o

    Which other very lucrative industries would you like us to lose??
    Thanks to inept (mostly Tory) governments over the past 40 years, we don't have any (other than the brief North Sea Oil sugar rush)
    I'm going to miss your posts next week when you're back in nursery school :)
    Sunil, your posts have become mighty brief of late. Are you sure you haven't been kidnapped and replaced by a Sunilbot?
    I'm a polling addict, and, and I've been fighting to get off opinion polls - shut up, TSE! - and, um, for over a year. I've been in rehab twice, and I don't wanna be like people like Angus Reid, that were... and stuff like that. I wanna be a survivor.

    I mean I died again on Election Night. So, I'm not... I'm not... my cats' lives are out. I... I just wanna say sorry to all the fans and stuff, and uh, I'm glad to be alive, and sorry to me mum as well.

    I just want them to know that it's not cool. It's not a cool thing to be an addict. It's not... you know, you're a slave to it, and it took... it's taken everything away from me that I loved, and so I've got to rebuild my life.


    FPT LOL! what can I say. avoid opiates!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    I had read somewhere he might consider, especially if he thought someone who might undo the Cameroon project might win.

    I suspect he'll be George Osborne's campaign manager.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    edited June 2016
    Sean_F said:

    Gove and Boris hadn't had a particularly good campaign until now, but their focus on the immigrant problem and its solution - an Australian points-based system- was a master class. To the less-travelled Brit, Aussies are blokes with corks hanging from their hats who take no grief from the Abo. To inject this imagery into the debate on EU membership was as audacious as it was brilliant. All the economic pronouncements in the world can’t counter this kind of deadly sub-conscious primitivism. Looking back, Remain never stood a chance.

    Cameron and Osborne killed off the EU case a long time ago when they indulged the Tory right and started "talking tough" on immigration - making promises about tens of thousands, saying 40% of EU immigrants were on benefits and so on. You cannot blame voters for hearing these things and for wondering why on earth everything has now changed. Dave and George are reaping what they sowed and that may end up doing significant harm to a large number of people. Let us hope not.

    It's too soon to throw in the towel. I think Remain will scrape home.


    I'm much less confident. I've been avoiding the news but listening to lots of vox pops and the 'Leave' messaging-though dishonest-has been penetrating like the 'red hot poker' up Edward 11's backside.

    Cameron's tactics are failing because his narrative is all wrong. He's talking about it as though it's just the financial settlement after a divorce which allows Leave to say 'it won't be too bad. Don't worry'.

    He should be talking about the complete and utter carnage. The children. The blood on the carpet. The possibility of bankruptcy.

    The first broadcast was as wrong headed as it could be.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Former high-ranking Fifa officials Sepp Blatter, Jerome Valcke and Markus Kattner awarded themselves pay rises and bonuses worth $80m (£55m) over five years, say Fifa lawyers.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36445879

    market rates innit? otherwise they'll be off to rival organizations. volleyball and so on
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    F##k me...more balls of steel reporting from Vice.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBMiGXIK0tU
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited June 2016
    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding, and very bright. A proper Cameroon, in fact.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Gove's a bit Marmite to be leader. Not like Osborne. Who unifies opinion against him.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    May. with Gove as CoE.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Gove's a bit Marmite to be leader. Not like Osborne. Who unifies opinion against him.

    but if he became PM wihout an election, he might manage, being apparently competent
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    He's repeatedly said he doesn't want it.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Right there you have the Remain three-week strategy.

    Vote Leave, get Gove.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    Possibly so. Her odds are too short anyway, she should be favourite IMO.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited June 2016
    I thought Gove has said on a number of occasions he never wants to be leader, and not in a Boris "unless the ball comes loose out of the back of the scum" kind of way.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    PlatoSaid said:

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    He's repeatedly said he doesn't want it.
    Alan Johnson vs Gove at the next election :)
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    she's rubbish, but.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    Mr. Jobabob, that's one way to motivate Labour as a whole and Conservatives irked with Cameron to vote Leave.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.

    Agreed.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited June 2016
    British tennis player Murray a break up in the first set.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    British tennis player Murray a break up in the first set.

    pah! tennis was probably invented by the french or something :)
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    I had read somewhere he might consider, especially if he thought someone who might undo the Cameroon project might win.

    I suspect he'll be George Osborne's campaign manager.
    I suspect Gove and Osborne will run as a 'dream ticket': Ozzy as leader, Gove his CoE. That might have been the plan all along - it would neutralise the attacks from the Tory hard-right if Osborne had a prominent Leaver as an ally. Of course, in this eventuality the Tory hard-right might just call Gove a traitor anyway, such is the level of their hate. In that case Boris will romp home. (May hasn't been sufficiently euro-sceptic so can be deemed a traitor without further discussion.)
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited June 2016

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    I'm not that keen on her personally but I think she's probably in Pole position in the event of LEAVE - She's been just loyal enough to Cameron to not upset REMAINERS and she's been quiet enough to probably be acceptable to LEAVERS.

    1. Cameron and Osborne will clearly have to go very quickly.

    2. Boris seems an unlikely choice for a period that will require very delicate negotations.

    3. I think Gove is genuine when he says he doesn't want it and suspect he won't even stand.

    4. Who does that leave? David Davis and Liam Fox? I think not.

    5. I guess an outsider like Priti or even Mogg can't be discounted given the bizarre times in which we live (if Jezza can become Lab leader ANYTHING is possible)
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    PlatoSaid said:

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    He's repeatedly said he doesn't want it.
    Yes but a lot was due to his reluctance to fly to foreign summits. It is said that Gove has had therapy to address this. Whether it has worked ...
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    I had read somewhere he might consider, especially if he thought someone who might undo the Cameroon project might win.

    I suspect he'll be George Osborne's campaign manager.
    I suspect Gove and Osborne will run as a 'dream ticket': Ozzy as leader, Gove his CoE. That might have been the plan all along - it would neutralise the attacks from the Tory hard-right if Osborne had a prominent Leaver as an ally. Of course, in this eventuality the Tory hard-right might just call Gove a traitor anyway, such is the level of their hate. In that case Boris will romp home. (May hasn't been sufficiently euro-sceptic so can be deemed a traitor without further discussion.)
    If the referendum is lost, clearly Osborne goes down with Cameron.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    Dr. Foxinsox, I can see both sides.

    On a personal level, I think she's atrocious. A failure on migration, a threat to civil liberties. Her manner and appearance do seem reassuring and competent, but that's a case of competence being skin-deep.

    She may do well simply because of who she isn't, rather than who she is.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited June 2016
    FPT

    @MikeK

    "Actually the florin was the equal of a two shilling piece."

    Of course it was. Which actually meant that the mathematical mental agility we all acquired was even greater because we would be thinking of base 10 not only in terms of pounds but also in terms of florins, two of those shillings which we also counted in base 20 (and calculating in base 10 and base 20 simultaneously).

    And every child was taught from the age of about six to mentally calculate in three different bases and 99% of us could do it fluently and accurately. No wonder in my maths book collection (now alas consigned to history by the demands of space and Herself) I had a textbook aimed at 14 year olds in which calculus and other subjects now deemed fit only for A level pupils were detailed.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900

    I thought Gove has said on a number of occasions he never wants to be leader, and not in a Boris "unless the ball comes loose out of the back of the scum" kind of way.

    They'd have to drag me kicking and screaming......
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    Mr. Llama, I used to collect coins (still have what I got, but don't collect any more).

    The old system seems rather nice. And not just pounds, shillings and pence, but florins, crowns, farthings, guineas. A system that worked for a thousand years or so (I don't know precisely when it came in but believe it was there in 12th century or thereabouts).

    And instead we've got a soulless metric system. Humbug!

    On florins: they were still being grandfathered in when I was at school. They were used as ten pence pieces, I think.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    I'm not that keen on her personally but I think she's probably in Pole position in the event of LEAVE - She's been just loyal enough to Cameron to not upset REMAINERS and she's been quiet enough to probably be acceptable to LEAVERS.

    1. Cameron and Osborne will clearly have to go very quickly.

    2. Boris seems an unlikely choice for a period that will require very delicate negotations.

    3. I think Gove is genuine when he says he doesn't want it and suspect he won't even stand.

    4. Who does that leave? David Davis and Liam Fox? I think not.

    5. I guess an outsider like Priti or even Mogg can't be discounted given the bizarre times in which we live (if Jezza can become Lab leader ANYTHING is possible)
    Yes, Mogg's a possibility. In those circumstances I'd expect the Tories to merge with UKIP, with Farage either given a safe seat or ennobled to allow him to serve in one of the higher offices of state of his choosing - presumably Foreign Sec. IDS in a Nixon-style comeback also can't be discounted.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    FPT



    Decimalisation was first proposed in the 1830s. That's why Britain ended up with two coins of such similar value: the florin and half-crown.

    It eventually took place two years before Britain joined the EEC.

    The florin and the half-crown came out of 19th century plan for decimalisation? Is that really true? Could you perhaps provide a source?

    One of the advantages of the old currency is that one could do most common fractions of a pound quickly in your head and their were the coins available to turn that into a reality. One third of a pound 6s 8d; two thirds was 13s 6d, a quarter 5s, and eighth 2s 6d (a half crown) and so on. I never quite understood the guinea though (£1 1s for our younger readers who may be unfamiliar with the term) .

    From a mathematical perspective, every child from about the age of five or six was taught to do calculations in base 12 (pennies per shilling), base 20 (shillings per pound) and decimal (pounds) in their head and we were all very proficient at it. Marvellous mental mathematical agility training. I do wonder if the UK's decline down the mathematical proficiency tables didn't start with the decimalisation of our currency.
    https://24carat.co.uk/florinstoryframe.html
    Turns out I slightly misremembered but the substance was right - the florin was introduced as a partial move towards decimalisation (in the 1840s, not 1830s).
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    Or hammond.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there?

    IDS

    You know it makes sense...
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    PlatoSaid said:

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    He's repeatedly said he doesn't want it.
    Not only that, Miss P, Gove has said more than once the he does not have the qualities required of a Party Leader. So he not only doesn't want the job but he knows he would be rubbish at it. However, no matter how often this is pointed out some denizens of this site still keep mentioning him as a future leader of the Conservative Party.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    A failure on migration, a threat to civil liberties. .

    perfectly put. no wonder you became a writer...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    edited June 2016
    Mr. Dugarbandier, *cough*buymybooks*cough*

    [/subtlety]
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Mr. Llama, I used to collect coins (still have what I got, but don't collect any more).

    The old system seems rather nice. And not just pounds, shillings and pence, but florins, crowns, farthings, guineas. A system that worked for a thousand years or so (I don't know precisely when it came in but believe it was there in 12th century or thereabouts).

    And instead we've got a soulless metric system. Humbug!

    On florins: they were still being grandfathered in when I was at school. They were used as ten pence pieces, I think.

    don't forget yr thrupenny bits!
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    I'm not that keen on her personally but I think she's probably in Pole position in the event of LEAVE - She's been just loyal enough to Cameron to not upset REMAINERS and she's been quiet enough to probably be acceptable to LEAVERS.

    1. Cameron and Osborne will clearly have to go very quickly.

    2. Boris seems an unlikely choice for a period that will require very delicate negotations.

    3. I think Gove is genuine when he says he doesn't want it and suspect he won't even stand.

    4. Who does that leave? David Davis and Liam Fox? I think not.

    5. I guess an outsider like Priti or even Mogg can't be discounted given the bizarre times in which we live (if Jezza can become Lab leader ANYTHING is possible)
    Yes, Mogg's a possibility. In those circumstances I'd expect the Tories to merge with UKIP, with Farage either given a safe seat or ennobled to allow him to serve in one of the higher offices of state of his choosing - presumably Foreign Sec. IDS in a Nixon-style comeback also can't be discounted.
    Corbyn is rightly criticised for not having an original thought after the age of 18. With Mogg, I think we'd struggle to double figures.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Mr. Dugarbandier, *cough*buymybooks*cough*

    [/subtlety]

    I'll ave a look, at least.

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    fpt Sunil and battleship calibres:

    I'm kind of the same. My father was a gunsmith and firearms dealer and I am very au fait with small arms calibres, which are a bewildering mix of imperial and metric. The basic thing to remember is that 1 inch is 2.54 cm. So an imperial .30 calibre rifle round becomes a 7.62mm metric one.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    FPT



    Decimalisation was first proposed in the 1830s. That's why Britain ended up with two coins of such similar value: the florin and half-crown.

    It eventually took place two years before Britain joined the EEC.

    The florin and the half-crown came out of 19th century plan for decimalisation? Is that really true? Could you perhaps provide a source?

    One of the advantages of the old currency is that one could do most common fractions of a pound quickly in your head and their were the coins available to turn that into a reality. One third of a pound 6s 8d; two thirds was 13s 6d, a quarter 5s, and eighth 2s 6d (a half crown) and so on. I never quite understood the guinea though (£1 1s for our younger readers who may be unfamiliar with the term) .

    From a mathematical perspective, every child from about the age of five or six was taught to do calculations in base 12 (pennies per shilling), base 20 (shillings per pound) and decimal (pounds) in their head and we were all very proficient at it. Marvellous mental mathematical agility training. I do wonder if the UK's decline down the mathematical proficiency tables didn't start with the decimalisation of our currency.
    https://24carat.co.uk/florinstoryframe.html
    Turns out I slightly misremembered but the substance was right - the florin was introduced as a partial move towards decimalisation (in the 1840s, not 1830s).
    Interesting stuff, Mr. Herdson, thank you.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    We all know who we're talking about and it would be very nice for those who won't be able to watch not to have to wade through the mud flats
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    Makes you proud to be British

    @CourtNewsUK: A drunk C of E vicar screamed 'I'm from the Vatican, you're f*cked' as he brawled with police after nightclub binge of Biblical proportions.

    The paralytic pastor punched, kicked, bit and spat at a paramedic and pc who found him slumped in a doorway in his clerical clothing.

    He then repeatedly claimed to have 'diplomatic immunity' from the Vatican Embassy in a cunning bid to avoid arrest.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    A good post - thanks TSE. I'm a long term Gove supporter - one of the few politicians for whom I'd happily work tirelessly for. I think his ratings would improve given time, but this next leadership campaign might be necessarily short, and the event of a Leave result, the run up to an election very short too.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    I'm not that keen on her personally but I think she's probably in Pole position in the event of LEAVE - She's been just loyal enough to Cameron to not upset REMAINERS and she's been quiet enough to probably be acceptable to LEAVERS.

    1. Cameron and Osborne will clearly have to go very quickly.

    2. Boris seems an unlikely choice for a period that will require very delicate negotations.

    3. I think Gove is genuine when he says he doesn't want it and suspect he won't even stand.

    4. Who does that leave? David Davis and Liam Fox? I think not.

    5. I guess an outsider like Priti or even Mogg can't be discounted given the bizarre times in which we live (if Jezza can become Lab leader ANYTHING is possible)
    Yes, Mogg's a possibility. In those circumstances I'd expect the Tories to merge with UKIP, with Farage either given a safe seat or ennobled to allow him to serve in one of the higher offices of state of his choosing - presumably Foreign Sec. IDS in a Nixon-style comeback also can't be discounted.
    Unfortunately I think Betsy would stop The Quiet Man from standing... :(
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Oh, and I've sent you a Vanilla message!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    Makes you proud to be British

    @CourtNewsUK: A drunk C of E vicar screamed 'I'm from the Vatican, you're f*cked' as he brawled with police after nightclub binge of Biblical proportions.

    The paralytic pastor punched, kicked, bit and spat at a paramedic and pc who found him slumped in a doorway in his clerical clothing.

    He then repeatedly claimed to have 'diplomatic immunity' from the Vatican Embassy in a cunning bid to avoid arrest.

    Coming to "Thought for the Day" on R4 soon...
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324
    Scott_P said:

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there?

    IDS

    You know it makes sense...
    IDS is Leave's spiritual leader, so can't be discounted. I get the impression he thinks of himself as a man who's never been allowed to fulfil no end of potentials. Leadership, the Iraq war, welfare reform - all scuppered by people who were clearly his inferiors. Brexit, however, would be seen as an end to that dry run. He would see it as his crowning achievement. Emboldened he would then set about putting the past to rights.
  • Options

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    I had read somewhere he might consider, especially if he thought someone who might undo the Cameroon project might win.

    I suspect he'll be George Osborne's campaign manager.
    I suspect Gove and Osborne will run as a 'dream ticket': Ozzy as leader, Gove his CoE. That might have been the plan all along - it would neutralise the attacks from the Tory hard-right if Osborne had a prominent Leaver as an ally. Of course, in this eventuality the Tory hard-right might just call Gove a traitor anyway, such is the level of their hate. In that case Boris will romp home. (May hasn't been sufficiently euro-sceptic so can be deemed a traitor without further discussion.)
    So you believe that Osborne can break out from his solid block of 2% of voters that believe he is a natural leader?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Apparently families of Iraq War dead will have to pay the full £767 cost of the Chilcott Report.

    Perhaps there was someone involved who might be able to spare a few quid and ease his conscience?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    I'm not that keen on her personally but I think she's probably in Pole position in the event of LEAVE - She's been just loyal enough to Cameron to not upset REMAINERS and she's been quiet enough to probably be acceptable to LEAVERS.

    1. Cameron and Osborne will clearly have to go very quickly.

    2. Boris seems an unlikely choice for a period that will require very delicate negotations.

    3. I think Gove is genuine when he says he doesn't want it and suspect he won't even stand.

    4. Who does that leave? David Davis and Liam Fox? I think not.

    5. I guess an outsider like Priti or even Mogg can't be discounted given the bizarre times in which we live (if Jezza can become Lab leader ANYTHING is possible)
    Yes, Mogg's a possibility. In those circumstances I'd expect the Tories to merge with UKIP, with Farage either given a safe seat or ennobled to allow him to serve in one of the higher offices of state of his choosing - presumably Foreign Sec. IDS in a Nixon-style comeback also can't be discounted.
    Farage has enough enemies in UKIP, I cannot see him in the Tories.

    Hammond would be good as leader, with a bean counters attention to detail in negotiation.

    Rees-Mogg has been a rare example of a Leaver Tory who has composed himself with dignity (Gove being one of the few others).

    Paterson would keep the headbangers happy.

    Gove has ruled himself out, Osborne has been daft and Johnson a clown. May is unpleasant and incompetent.

    Not much to choose from really. I think a Remain win will destroy the Con party for a generation. I am looking forward to it.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Patrick said:

    fpt Sunil and battleship calibres:

    I'm kind of the same. My father was a gunsmith and firearms dealer and I am very au fait with small arms calibres, which are a bewildering mix of imperial and metric. The basic thing to remember is that 1 inch is 2.54 cm. So an imperial .30 calibre rifle round becomes a 7.62mm metric one.

    That's answered a long standing query of mine. It's most confusing for the casual observer.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    PlatoSaid said:

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    He's repeatedly said he doesn't want it.
    Not only that, Miss P, Gove has said more than once the he does not have the qualities required of a Party Leader. So he not only doesn't want the job but he knows he would be rubbish at it. However, no matter how often this is pointed out some denizens of this site still keep mentioning him as a future leader of the Conservative Party.
    I'm not sure I'm talking to you after your rather rude remarks on the last thread. Criticising both the City *and* the EIC in the same sentence!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited June 2016

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    Or hammond.
    The problem for Hammond is that he was always perceived as being VERY eurosceptic and then appeared to do a complete about-turn for career purpose's.

    I wouldn't discount him but I think his complete change to tack with render him unacceptable to LEAVE'ers (same with Javid and were he still in the Commons, William Hague)
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    British tennis player Murray a break up in the first set.

    pah! tennis was probably invented by the french or something :)
    Wikipedia says

    Most historians believe that tennis originated in the monastic cloisters in northern France in the 12th century, but the ball was then struck with the palm of the hand hence the name jeu de paume ("game of the palm").[1] It was not until the 16th century that rackets came into use, and the game began to be called "tennis."
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited June 2016
    taffys said:

    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    Agreed.

    Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    Mr. Urquhart, one of my favourite books is Outlaws of the Marsh, which features as a major character Sagacious Lu, a drunken murderer who evades justice by becoming a (not very good) Buddhist monk.

    This chap sounds a bit similar, although less formidable in combat.

    Mr. Dugarbandier, they're surprisingly well-reviewed, you know.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    IDS is Leave's spiritual leader, so can't be discounted. I get the impression he thinks of himself as a man who's never been allowed to fulfil no end of potentials. Leadership, the Iraq war, welfare reform - all scuppered by people who were clearly his inferiors. Brexit, however, would be seen as an end to that dry run. He would see it as his crowning achievement. Emboldened he would then set about putting the past to rights.

    He has been all over the airwaves today explaining how much better than Cameron he is...
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Makes you proud to be British

    @CourtNewsUK: A drunk C of E vicar screamed 'I'm from the Vatican, you're f*cked' as he brawled with police after nightclub binge of Biblical proportions.

    The paralytic pastor punched, kicked, bit and spat at a paramedic and pc who found him slumped in a doorway in his clerical clothing.

    He then repeatedly claimed to have 'diplomatic immunity' from the Vatican Embassy in a cunning bid to avoid arrest.

    Father Jacks British cousin?

    That would be a Eucemenical matter.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    Mortimer said:

    Oh, and I've sent you a Vanilla message!

    Got it, it'll be a few days before it goes up, my back teeth are floating under the pieces I have to publish over the next few days from PB's rota of writers.

    Now wish me luck, I'm off to Old Trafford for the Roses t20 match, and I'm going to wear my 'Yorkshire' hoody.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,900
    edited June 2016

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    I'm not that keen on her personally but I think she's probably in Pole position in the event of LEAVE - She's been just loyal enough to Cameron to not upset REMAINERS and she's been quiet enough to probably be acceptable to LEAVERS.

    1. Cameron and Osborne will clearly have to go very quickly.

    2. Boris seems an unlikely choice for a period that will require very delicate negotations.

    3. I think Gove is genuine when he says he doesn't want it and suspect he won't even stand.

    4. Who does that leave? David Davis and Liam Fox? I think not.

    5. I guess an outsider like Priti or even Mogg can't be discounted given the bizarre times in which we live (if Jezza can become Lab leader ANYTHING is possible)
    Yes, Mogg's a possibility. In those circumstances I'd expect the Tories to merge with UKIP, with Farage either given a safe seat or ennobled to allow him to serve in one of the higher offices of state of his choosing - presumably Foreign Sec. IDS in a Nixon-style comeback also can't be discounted.
    That's a good idea. Farage to the Lords. He can then insult the Europeans to his hearts content without being paid by them while he's doing it
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    Or hammond.
    The problem for Hammond is that he was always perceived as being VERY eurosceptic and then appeared to do a complete about-turn for career purpose's.

    I wouldn't discount him but I think his complete change to tack with render him unacceptable to LEAVE'ers (same with Javid and were he still in the Commons, William Hague)
    Hammond has almost no chance. On wrong side of referendum, did massive u turn and walked over by Osborne even after the u turn.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    Mr. Rabbit, that's a rancid level of penny-pinching, particularly when Chilcott was getting six figures a year whilst he was slower than an arthritic sloth.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    Apparently families of Iraq War dead will have to pay the full £767 cost of the Chilcott Report.

    Perhaps there was someone involved who might be able to spare a few quid and ease his conscience?

    I have just read up about this. Apparently it is extended family who have to pay for the full report (parents / spouses etc get a copy), and they can get an executive summary for £30. And all of it will be available free on the internet. However, all that been said, still not right.
  • Options

    Mr. Urquhart, one of my favourite books is Outlaws of the Marsh, which features as a major character Sagacious Lu, a drunken murderer who evades justice by becoming a (not very good) Buddhist monk.

    This chap sounds a bit similar, although less formidable in combat.

    Mr. Dugarbandier, they're surprisingly well-reviewed, you know.

    Mr Wifflestick - did you watch it (The Water Margin) on telly in the 1970s? It was fab. A Chinese classic with some awesome violence and characters Quentin Tarantino would be proud of.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920

    taffys said:

    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    Agreed.

    Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
    Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...

    But who knows. We live in volatile times.
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I think Gove will give a polished performance tonight, he's very fluent and reasonable-sounding.

    All the same, I think TSE's 'Kingmaker rather the King' point is a good one. The only thing is, in the event of a Leave result (which I think would require a Leaver as PM), who else is there? Boris has confirmed the widespread concerns about him, and in case has been divisive. Grayling? He's been very articulate and very measured in the campaign, always coming over well, but, still... So Gove has to be considered as a serious contender, in a Leave scenario.

    Theresa might have kept her head down enough to be able to take over even after a LEAVE vote?
    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    I'm not that keen on her personally but I think she's probably in Pole position in the event of LEAVE - She's been just loyal enough to Cameron to not upset REMAINERS and she's been quiet enough to probably be acceptable to LEAVERS.

    1. Cameron and Osborne will clearly have to go very quickly.

    2. Boris seems an unlikely choice for a period that will require very delicate negotations.

    3. I think Gove is genuine when he says he doesn't want it and suspect he won't even stand.

    4. Who does that leave? David Davis and Liam Fox? I think not.

    5. I guess an outsider like Priti or even Mogg can't be discounted given the bizarre times in which we live (if Jezza can become Lab leader ANYTHING is possible)
    People need to remember the potential for tactical voting amongst MPs. While there may be a stop Osborne or stop Boris movement, I can't see anyone particularly wanting to stop Theresa which gives her a great chance of being in the top 2.

    She has also given herself enough leg room to be able to easily pivot to leave if that is the result.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Aha! A slippery-tissues move by TSE to change the thread while I took another kleenex. ;)
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,263
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    PlatoSaid said:

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    He's repeatedly said he doesn't want it.
    Alan Johnson vs Gove at the next election :)
    Presumably Alan Johnson would resign even if he won the election; too nice for the leadership....
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    PlatoSaid said:

    Patrick said:

    fpt Sunil and battleship calibres:

    I'm kind of the same. My father was a gunsmith and firearms dealer and I am very au fait with small arms calibres, which are a bewildering mix of imperial and metric. The basic thing to remember is that 1 inch is 2.54 cm. So an imperial .30 calibre rifle round becomes a 7.62mm metric one.

    That's answered a long standing query of mine. It's most confusing for the casual observer.
    am i right in thinking this caused some trouble/confusion in early 20C Japan, whose ships were british built, with imperial gun measurements?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    I had read somewhere he might consider, especially if he thought someone who might undo the Cameroon project might win.

    I suspect he'll be George Osborne's campaign manager.
    I suspect Gove and Osborne will run as a 'dream ticket': Ozzy as leader, Gove his CoE. That might have been the plan all along - it would neutralise the attacks from the Tory hard-right if Osborne had a prominent Leaver as an ally. Of course, in this eventuality the Tory hard-right might just call Gove a traitor anyway, such is the level of their hate. In that case Boris will romp home. (May hasn't been sufficiently euro-sceptic so can be deemed a traitor without further discussion.)
    You don't seem to be understanding that Osborne is the hard-big-business-right.

    Everything more liberal has been Cameron's doing.
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    Roger said:

    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    Gove is not my preferred choice for the debate. He starts out with slightly worse trust ratings than even Cameron has. I do not expect the audience to be favourable and they will be ready to pounce. Could be brutal. The one thing going for Gove is he is unfailingly polite and tries to answer the questions with little spin and distraction.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,009
    Mr. Patrick, no, though I am vaguely aware of its existence (in my defence, I wasn't born at the time). Not sure if I'd want to see it now, though, as I'd worry it wouldn't match the book.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Roger said:

    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    We all know who we're talking about and it would be very nice for those who won't be able to watch not to have to wade through the mud flats

    When you say pre-written, you presumably mean those who copy and paste tweets.....?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    We all know who we're talking about and it would be very nice for those who won't be able to watch not to have to wade through the mud flats

    When you say pre-written, you presumably mean those who copy and paste tweets.....?
    But will they be able to give the correct answer to the Monty Hall problem?
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    Mr. Urquhart, one of my favourite books is Outlaws of the Marsh, which features as a major character Sagacious Lu, a drunken murderer who evades justice by becoming a (not very good) Buddhist monk.

    This chap sounds a bit similar, although less formidable in combat.

    Mr. Dugarbandier, they're surprisingly well-reviewed, you know.

    I'm liking the cut of yr jib Md.D. I'm a big fan of Journey to the West. Would love to give Outlaws of the Marsh a go. (When their respective tv series were on bbc2 in the 70s, I guess the water margin was a bit too difficult to grasp as a tender youth)
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    edited June 2016

    Mortimer said:

    Oh, and I've sent you a Vanilla message!

    Got it, it'll be a few days before it goes up, my back teeth are floating under the pieces I have to publish over the next few days from PB's rota of writers.

    Now wish me luck, I'm off to Old Trafford for the Roses t20 match, and I'm going to wear my 'Yorkshire' hoody.
    Ta muchly!

    Luck? Body armour might be more useful....
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Apparently families of Iraq War dead will have to pay the full £767 cost of the Chilcott Report.

    Perhaps there was someone involved who might be able to spare a few quid and ease his conscience?

    I have just read up about this. Apparently it is extended family who have to pay for the full report (parents / spouses etc get a copy), and they can get an executive summary for £30. And all of it will be available free on the internet. However, all that been said, still not right.
    So because you don't want to download and read a PDF you expect the taxpayer to give you and handsomely bound version instead?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Mr. Patrick, no, though I am vaguely aware of its existence (in my defence, I wasn't born at the time). Not sure if I'd want to see it now, though, as I'd worry it wouldn't match the book.

    It was fab telly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-T_IfIBij4
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    Mortimer said:

    Oh, and I've sent you a Vanilla message!

    Got it, it'll be a few days before it goes up, my back teeth are floating under the pieces I have to publish over the next few days from PB's rota of writers.

    Now wish me luck, I'm off to Old Trafford for the Roses t20 match, and I'm going to wear my 'Yorkshire' hoody.
    I think you would be safer in a "Make America Great Again - Trump" outfit.
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    GIN1138 said:

    taffys said:

    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    Agreed.

    Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
    Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...

    But who knows. We live in volatile times.
    Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    We all know who we're talking about and it would be very nice for those who won't be able to watch not to have to wade through the mud flats

    When you say pre-written, you presumably mean those who copy and paste tweets.....?
    But will they be able to give the correct answer to the Monty Hall problem?
    I imagine this is going to be referenced for the next decade isn't it! A great afternoon's thread. Perhaps someone should write a post referendum index of popular PB references....
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,324

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    I had read somewhere he might consider, especially if he thought someone who might undo the Cameroon project might win.

    I suspect he'll be George Osborne's campaign manager.
    I suspect Gove and Osborne will run as a 'dream ticket': Ozzy as leader, Gove his CoE. That might have been the plan all along - it would neutralise the attacks from the Tory hard-right if Osborne had a prominent Leaver as an ally. Of course, in this eventuality the Tory hard-right might just call Gove a traitor anyway, such is the level of their hate. In that case Boris will romp home. (May hasn't been sufficiently euro-sceptic so can be deemed a traitor without further discussion.)
    So you believe that Osborne can break out from his solid block of 2% of voters that believe he is a natural leader?
    Yes, Osborne's stock will soar post-Brexit. When the economic meltdown hits, the 50% of the population who voted Remain (and possibly a lot of disillusioned Leavers) will see Osborne as the man whose judgement was sound all along. Someone will be needed to clear up Leave's mess, and who better than the chancellor who, among his numerous other achievements, warned most forcibly against it?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    edited June 2016

    Is there any evidence Gove actually wants the job ?

    Boris yes, but Gove ?

    I had read somewhere he might consider, especially if he thought someone who might undo the Cameroon project might win.

    I suspect he'll be George Osborne's campaign manager.
    I suspect Gove and Osborne will run as a 'dream ticket': Ozzy as leader, Gove his CoE. That might have been the plan all along - it would neutralise the attacks from the Tory hard-right if Osborne had a prominent Leaver as an ally. Of course, in this eventuality the Tory hard-right might just call Gove a traitor anyway, such is the level of their hate. In that case Boris will romp home. (May hasn't been sufficiently euro-sceptic so can be deemed a traitor without further discussion.)
    So you believe that Osborne can break out from his solid block of 2% of voters that believe he is a natural leader?
    Yes, Osborne's stock will soar post-Brexit. When the economic meltdown hits, the 50% of the population who voted Remain (and possibly a lot of disillusioned Leavers) will see Osborne as the man whose judgement was sound all along. Someone will be needed to clear up Leave's mess, and who better than the chancellor who, among his numerous other achievements, warned most forcibly against it?
    Unless the possibility of lucrative city jobs tempt him out of parliament...
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Patrick said:

    fpt Sunil and battleship calibres:

    I'm kind of the same. My father was a gunsmith and firearms dealer and I am very au fait with small arms calibres, which are a bewildering mix of imperial and metric. The basic thing to remember is that 1 inch is 2.54 cm. So an imperial .30 calibre rifle round becomes a 7.62mm metric one.

    Excellent, you may be able to answer some questions that have bothered me for most of my life.

    1. Why did the British army adopt 0.303 as a calibre? It just seems so odd to go to three decimal places unless there was a good reason for it. The US Browning machine gun had a .300 calibre as did, I think, the Garand rifle but they came much later after the British decision to go for 0.303 (a decision it stuck with until the NATO standard arrived in the late fifties/early sixties).

    2. In the later part of WW2 there emerged a class of weapons of the 76.2 calibre, and not just in one country. Why 76.2? OK ,it is ten times the rifle calibre bullet of 7.62, but that still doesn't answer why not 75 (of which there were also some) of even just a plain 76. Some armies in WW2 had 7.92 calibre rifles which is even more odd.

    If you can provide any information I would be most grateful.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    We all know who we're talking about and it would be very nice for those who won't be able to watch not to have to wade through the mud flats

    When you say pre-written, you presumably mean those who copy and paste tweets.....?
    But will they be able to give the correct answer to the Monty Hall problem?
    I imagine this is going to be referenced for the next decade isn't it! A great afternoon's thread. Perhaps someone should write a post referendum index of popular PB references....
    You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GdnPolitics: 'The Brexit lot are doing a victory lap already': readers on the EU referendum https://t.co/Y1mIxf8cl0
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    Game changer

    Cornish Pasty Industry Backs Staying In EU

    The manufacturers' body wants to keep ties with Brussels because of the protection given to the popular delicacy under EU law

    http://news.sky.com/story/1706485/cornish-pasty-industry-backs-staying-in-eu
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    Mr. Patrick, no, though I am vaguely aware of its existence (in my defence, I wasn't born at the time). Not sure if I'd want to see it now, though, as I'd worry it wouldn't match the book.

    As Plato says - fab telly (a 1973 Japanese TV version of the Chinese story - one of the 4 great classics of Chinese literature). I'm 49 now ('67 vintage) and remember clearly watching The Water Margin on telly in the evenings after school as a kid. Just magic. Oddly, Shui Hu Zhuan was one of the set texts for my degree (MA Hons Chinese).
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    GIN1138 said:

    taffys said:

    I cannot understand this Tory enthusiasm for May. She more than anyone is responsible for immigration, and with non-EU migration running net +149 000 has been a total failure.
    Agreed.

    Yes. Better to look for Andrea Leadsom. On the LEAVE side, had a real career and effective in the media interviews.
    Yeah, she's a possibility (like Priti) the problem is that she's completely untested in high office... I think the Tories will want someone with a lot of experience to negotiate our Brexit...

    But who knows. We live in volatile times.
    Andrea has the business nous to cope with the negotiations and manage the people that will do it. Having Andrea as Leader and Theresa at Foreign Office controlling the civil servants negotiating would be a good team.
    what evidence is there of Theresa's competence tho?
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    We all know who we're talking about and it would be very nice for those who won't be able to watch not to have to wade through the mud flats

    When you say pre-written, you presumably mean those who copy and paste tweets.....?
    But will they be able to give the correct answer to the Monty Hall problem?
    I imagine this is going to be referenced for the next decade isn't it! A great afternoon's thread. Perhaps someone should write a post referendum index of popular PB references....
    I miss Latvian homophobes.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    Great news for Remain.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited June 2016
    I have just watched Corbyn the Movie, produced by Vice, for the second time, as I wanted to check that my initial reaction was justified. It transpires that Corbyn is even worse than I originally thought.

    http://capx.co/corbyn-is-getting-worse-the-man-is-a-total-twit/

    He is spot on with the not as nice as supposed to be, that temper shows through as soon as he is asked one hard-ish question....and as thick as shit, definitely.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    PlatoSaid said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    We all know who we're talking about and it would be very nice for those who won't be able to watch not to have to wade through the mud flats

    When you say pre-written, you presumably mean those who copy and paste tweets.....?
    But will they be able to give the correct answer to the Monty Hall problem?
    I imagine this is going to be referenced for the next decade isn't it! A great afternoon's thread. Perhaps someone should write a post referendum index of popular PB references....
    I miss Latvian homophobes.
    Waffen SS.....

    AV

    Sion Simon
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596
    PlatoSaid said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Roger said:

    when we have the running commentary on Gove's performance tonight could those whose comments are pre written excuse themselves and leave the stage clear for those who can give an intelligent and insightful commentary.

    We all know who we're talking about and it would be very nice for those who won't be able to watch not to have to wade through the mud flats

    When you say pre-written, you presumably mean those who copy and paste tweets.....?
    But will they be able to give the correct answer to the Monty Hall problem?
    I imagine this is going to be referenced for the next decade isn't it! A great afternoon's thread. Perhaps someone should write a post referendum index of popular PB references....
    I miss Latvian homophobes.
    who wouldn't! did Dave mention his EU parliament allies in the debate? Afraid I missed th PB thread tho.
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