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It’s one poll but… – politicalbetting.com

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  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,049

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Why do people not like Donald Trump? Nate White's response:

    A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

    For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

    So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

    Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

    I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

    But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

    Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

    And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

    There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

    This is cringe-worthy shite, with a large dash of excruciating British snobbery. Trump is genuinely funny. He might be worse than Hitler or a nastier version of Caligula, or merely a grim parallel with Pinochet, but he IS funny. If you watch him without prejudice - hard for many of middling wits - you will see it. Probably beyond you

    You have a very warped sense of humour in that case. Probably find accidents and amputations funny as well.
    Oh it was simply *hilarious* when he waved his hands and mocked a disabled man

    /s
    That was fairly early in his 2016 run, wasn't it? Really should have settled the matter there and then.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,729
    edited March 3

    Manchuria latest:

    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    It’s interesting to contrast with attitudes earlier in the conflict:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/07/ukraine-crisis-will-not-be-solved-by-military-means-says-angela-merkel

    Angela Merkel has said the crisis in Ukraine will not be solved by military means, and that the peace agreement struck last September needs to be implemented.

    Speaking at the Munich security conference on Saturday, the German chancellor said she wanted to secure peace in Europe with Russia and not against it.

    Germany has opposed aiding Ukrainian troops for fear of worsening the conflict, which has already cost more than 5,000 lives, but the idea has many supporters in Washington.

    “I cannot imagine any situation in which improved equipment for the Ukrainian army leads to President Putin being so impressed that he believes he will lose militarily,” Merkel said. “I have to put it that bluntly.”
    What's your game here? Compared to Leon, who takes points of view a few of which I find horrendous, at least he offers a point and stands by it, rather than cringing, he-said she-said evasion. What's the point of having a discussion where you don't... discuss your point of view?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    I’ve never been a huge fan of Garton Ash, but this is right.

    "If Russia wins this war, there is no euro." - associate fellow in the Russia and Eurasia program at Chatham House Timothy Ash.

    "This is an existential threat to Europe. It's like COVID. It's about our security. It's about our national defense, about rule of law, all those European values, right? If we care about any of those, we just need to find the money. And there are lots of ways to do it. Again, €27 trillion economy. It's not difficult, guys,"
    @tashecon told Bloomberg.

    https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1896595863083905300
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,015

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Why do people not like Donald Trump? Nate White's response:

    A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

    For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

    So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

    Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

    I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

    But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

    Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

    And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

    There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

    This is cringe-worthy shite, with a large dash of excruciating British snobbery. Trump is genuinely funny. He might be worse than Hitler or a nastier version of Caligula, or merely a grim parallel with Pinochet, but he IS funny. If you watch him without prejudice - hard for many of middling wits - you will see it. Probably beyond you

    You have a very warped sense of humour in that case. Probably find accidents and amputations funny as well.
    Oh it was simply *hilarious* when he waved his hands and mocked a disabled man

    /s
    Mocking Rubio for sweating a lot was pretty funny though.

    That was back when Rubio was implying Trump had a small penis and he made sure to tell people in a primary debate there was no issue there.

    That kind of thing used to surprise people.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,988
    edited March 3
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    You can say what you like about Pol Pot, but he was HUGE fan of the Two Ronnies.

    Especially the Mastermind sketch.

    I've heard many times that, in private, Pol Pot was an excellent host, and gently amusing.

    The poor man was shy in public.
    Well he sure took care of the problem of there being too many crowds.

    An oft overlooked monster, far closer to our lifetimes than people seem to realise.
    During some of our lifetimes.
    I remember reading a long article in the newspaper in my teens, and having nightmares.

    I might have read the same article.

    I remember once saying to my wife that 20,000 went into Tuol Sleng, and 17 survived. She said “17,000?”

    “No. 17.”
    There was a photograph taken of all 20,000. They were told to give a happy looking smile.

    As you enter, you are confronted with nearly 20,000 pictures of smiling inmates, before they were taken away to unspeakably horrible deaths.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,211

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Why do people not like Donald Trump? Nate White's response:

    A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

    For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

    So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

    Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

    I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

    But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

    Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

    And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

    There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

    This is cringe-worthy shite, with a large dash of excruciating British snobbery. Trump is genuinely funny. He might be worse than Hitler or a nastier version of Caligula, or merely a grim parallel with Pinochet, but he IS funny. If you watch him without prejudice - hard for many of middling wits - you will see it. Probably beyond you

    You have a very warped sense of humour in that case. Probably find accidents and amputations funny as well.
    Oh it was simply *hilarious* when he waved his hands and mocked a disabled man

    /s
    That was fairly early in his 2016 run, wasn't it? Really should have settled the matter there and then.
    There were lots of things that should have settled the matter, sadly, and they didn’t. Because you know, Hillary is evil and what about her emails and all the rest of it.

  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,359
    Sean_F said:

    Manchuria latest:

    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    It’s interesting to contrast with attitudes earlier in the conflict:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/07/ukraine-crisis-will-not-be-solved-by-military-means-says-angela-merkel

    Angela Merkel has said the crisis in Ukraine will not be solved by military means, and that the peace agreement struck last September needs to be implemented.

    Speaking at the Munich security conference on Saturday, the German chancellor said she wanted to secure peace in Europe with Russia and not against it.

    Germany has opposed aiding Ukrainian troops for fear of worsening the conflict, which has already cost more than 5,000 lives, but the idea has many supporters in Washington.

    “I cannot imagine any situation in which improved equipment for the Ukrainian army leads to President Putin being so impressed that he believes he will lose militarily,” Merkel said. “I have to put it that bluntly.”
    Well, that aged well.

    Wasn’t she a dire leader?
    The German government & mandarin views are the weak link in Europe when it comes to Russia or indeed anything when it comes to growing a fucking backbone.

    Of all the countries that should know what happens when you don't face down dictators with imperial ambitions, but no, too busy trying to sell industrial machinery.

    And before anyone knocks on about how much money & materiel Germany has given, in relation to what it can do it hasnt so much dragged its heels, as shuffled along on its arse. Scholz was shit, I would put a bet Merkel would have been the same. History will show that when the Americans presented the Russian invasion plan in detail, large parts of the German government didnt really want to know.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    After all the calls from the US for Zelenskyy to be replaced or step down, Ukrainians now fear for their president's safety. Zelenskyy is a legitimately elected president with a 65%+ approval rating in Ukraine. Remember, Russia had tried to assassinate him many times since 2022
    https://x.com/olgatokariuk/status/1896334971004149917
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,562
    ...
    Jonathan said:


    The Associated Press
    @AP

    BREAKING: President Trump says that 25% tariffs on Mexican and Canadian imports are starting Tuesday, sparking new fears of a North American trade war.

    The man is out of control.
    Er, he’s in control. That’s the problem.
    I wonder when the killing starts? Everything else has followed my Gantt chart perfectly only much quicker than on my time line.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,254

    kle4 said:

    Manchuria latest:



    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    What exactly are Russia giving to attain all these advantageous positions?
    Money

    That is the simplest explanation, and probably at the heart of it all, but I still think they have other leverage over Trump. Putin is the only foreign leader that Trump is cowed by, even other wrong 'uns Trump likes don't instill the same fawning or subservience.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,663

    glw said:

    TimS said:

    They said all their government affairs people are expecting a Democrat sweep of the midterms and that from that point the ability of the current administration to do much harm would be severely limited. So they’re planning for another just under 2 years of this and then a change.

    Whether that just reflects old thinking that’s not caught up with a new reality I don’t know. It seemed very optimistic to me.

    Are they not aware of Trump trashing the FCC, FEC, and other important bodies that protect elections? Are they unaware that Trump wants the Whitehouse to have the final say on legal decisions of US government organisations?

    The chances of a genuinely free and fair federal election are just about nil.
    I think the chances of a real civil war are now closer than they have been sicnce.. well the end of the last one. I just don't see the USA surviving even 2 years of Trump let alone 4.
    "The chances of a genuinely free and fair federal election are just about nil."

    Yep.

    Increasingly I think a civil war is what it will take to remove him from office.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,546
    edited March 3

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Why do people not like Donald Trump? Nate White's response:

    A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

    For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

    So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

    Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

    I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

    But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

    Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

    And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

    There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

    This is cringe-worthy shite, with a large dash of excruciating British snobbery. Trump is genuinely funny. He might be worse than Hitler or a nastier version of Caligula, or merely a grim parallel with Pinochet, but he IS funny. If you watch him without prejudice - hard for many of middling wits - you will see it. Probably beyond you
    You have a very warped sense of humour in that case. Probably find accidents and amputations funny as well.
    It is somewhat to my shame that I agree with Leon on this. I despise Trump and despair that he has been reelected, but I distinctly remember moments from the election campaign where I raised a wry smile at his comic timing and self-deprecation.

    I am open to ideas on the penance I should do for such despicable tastes.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,049

    Does the US only retain the executive branch of Government now?

    Whilst some of us might decry 'The Blob' in the UK, the US desperately needs one.
    In theory, there are American versions of the Men in Grey Suits (or indeed, White Coats), but are there any functional ways of derailing a Tonto Trump Presidency?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,663
    In 2023, the U.S. imported around 33 TWh (terawatt hours) from Canadian generating stations.

    Toronton Sun
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,359
    edited March 3
    rkrkrk said:

    Annoyingly I pressed sell on my s&p 500 stocks this morning.
    I've probably managed to sell at the bottom now.

    I dont think you have, real economy factors are going to come into play. The main reason Trump got in is because Joe Average isnt feeling all that flush and that situation will work its way through.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,933
    Sean_F said:

    Manchuria latest:

    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    It’s interesting to contrast with attitudes earlier in the conflict:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/07/ukraine-crisis-will-not-be-solved-by-military-means-says-angela-merkel

    Angela Merkel has said the crisis in Ukraine will not be solved by military means, and that the peace agreement struck last September needs to be implemented.

    Speaking at the Munich security conference on Saturday, the German chancellor said she wanted to secure peace in Europe with Russia and not against it.

    Germany has opposed aiding Ukrainian troops for fear of worsening the conflict, which has already cost more than 5,000 lives, but the idea has many supporters in Washington.

    “I cannot imagine any situation in which improved equipment for the Ukrainian army leads to President Putin being so impressed that he believes he will lose militarily,” Merkel said. “I have to put it that bluntly.”
    Well, that aged well.

    Wasn’t she a dire leader?
    Dire leader may be prefererable to dear leader though

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,822
    The lunatics really have taken over the asylum .

    It was really quite sad seeing Starmer having to stand there pretending the US was still an ally .
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,359
    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197

    Does the US only retain the executive branch of Government now?

    Whilst some of us might decry 'The Blob' in the UK, the US desperately needs one.
    In theory, there are American versions of the Men in Grey Suits (or indeed, White Coats), but are there any functional ways of derailing a Tonto Trump Presidency?
    Not without the help of a significant number of Republicans, none of whom have so far indicated much in the way of either qualms, or spine.

    Beyond a certain point, it becomes irreversible. But I don’t think the US is quite there yet.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,155
    EPG said:

    Manchuria latest:

    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    It’s interesting to contrast with attitudes earlier in the conflict:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/07/ukraine-crisis-will-not-be-solved-by-military-means-says-angela-merkel

    Angela Merkel has said the crisis in Ukraine will not be solved by military means, and that the peace agreement struck last September needs to be implemented.

    Speaking at the Munich security conference on Saturday, the German chancellor said she wanted to secure peace in Europe with Russia and not against it.

    Germany has opposed aiding Ukrainian troops for fear of worsening the conflict, which has already cost more than 5,000 lives, but the idea has many supporters in Washington.

    “I cannot imagine any situation in which improved equipment for the Ukrainian army leads to President Putin being so impressed that he believes he will lose militarily,” Merkel said. “I have to put it that bluntly.”
    What's your game here? Compared to Leon, who takes points of view a few of which I find horrendous, at least he offers a point and stands by it, rather than cringing, he-said she-said evasion. What's the point of having a discussion where you don't... discuss your point of view?
    williamglenn's point of view is perfectly clear. he supports neonazis. he tries to cover it up by being a transparent troll, but to me he seems like a genuinely nasty piece of work.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    nico67 said:

    The lunatics really have taken over the asylum .

    It was really quite sad seeing Starmer having to stand there pretending the US was still an ally .

    If he carries on doing so, in the face of the evidence, then we have a problem.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080
    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Who would want to do that?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,822
    Scott_xP said:

    @krassenstein
    BREAKING: Ontario, Canada's Premier Doug Ford just threatened to cut US electricity to several American states if Trump's tariffs go into effect:

    "If they want to try to annihilate Ontario, I will do anything , including cutting off their energy, with a smile on my face."

    This is ALL Trump's fault. Just remember that!

    https://x.com/krassenstein/status/1896673040836309320

    Problem is the states likely to be affected are Dem .
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,439
    Worry not everyone, I’m sure tomorrow our resident realists will be along to snigger at the PB drama queens and Ukraine ultras wetting themselves about a few minor breaches of protocol.

    The other worry not news is that while blanket tariffs, if they come, will drive up US inflation and send them into stagflation, for the rest of the world they’ll just lead to global recession. We might even see a bit of goods deflation here in Blighty.

    Hopefully the oil price will plummet and bankrupt Russia.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    You can say what you like about Pol Pot, but he was HUGE fan of the Two Ronnies.

    Especially the Mastermind sketch.

    I've heard many times that, in private, Pol Pot was an excellent host, and gently amusing.

    The poor man was shy in public.
    Well he sure took care of the problem of there being too many crowds.

    An oft overlooked monster, far closer to our lifetimes than people seem to realise.
    During some of our lifetimes.
    I remember reading a long article in the newspaper in my teens, and having nightmares.

    I might have read the same article.

    I remember once saying to my wife that 20,000 went into Tuol Sleng, and 17 survived. She said “17,000?”

    “No. 17.”
    I have had a drink with one of the 17 survivors - or 7, depending who you reference - Vann Nath, the painter

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vann_Nath

    Sad to say he was, to my mind, brutally tormented by what he'd experienced there, even 30 years later
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,988
    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707

    Nigelb said:

    White House directs officials to draft proposal to lift US sanctions on Russia
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/trump-sanctions-russia

    Once again, should we consider the approach that Ted Heath rejected?
    Hmmm. I wonder if Trump's ignorance is being reinforced by those around him, as well as his own existence in a personal bubble.

    In his first term they stopped giving him daily intelligence briefings because he paid no attention.

    Perhaps Mr Starmer could explain that Russia is giving technology to North Korea that will let their nuclear missiles hit the USA with greater reliability and accuracy?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080
    @carlquintanilla.bsky.social‬

    (AFP) - A dozen Teslas were torched in France in what authorities are treating as an arson attack, the prosecutor's office said Monday.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,822
    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    The lunatics really have taken over the asylum .

    It was really quite sad seeing Starmer having to stand there pretending the US was still an ally .

    If he carries on doing so, in the face of the evidence, then we have a problem.
    I’m getting close to the point where I’ll gladly be a bit poorer if that means we could tell Trump to go fxck himself .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Why do people not like Donald Trump? Nate White's response:

    A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

    For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

    So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

    Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

    I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

    But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

    Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

    And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

    There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

    This is cringe-worthy shite, with a large dash of excruciating British snobbery. Trump is genuinely funny. He might be worse than Hitler or a nastier version of Caligula, or merely a grim parallel with Pinochet, but he IS funny. If you watch him without prejudice - hard for many of middling wits - you will see it. Probably beyond you

    You have a very warped sense of humour in that case. Probably find accidents and amputations funny as well.
    Oh it was simply *hilarious* when he waved his hands and mocked a disabled man

    /s
    Don't get Leon confused with a decent human being.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    Prosecutors in Jan 6 cases demoted: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/28/doj-demotions-prosecutors-trump-00206762

    The rule of law ever more eroded.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,672

    kle4 said:

    Manchuria latest:



    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    What exactly are Russia giving to attain all these advantageous positions?
    Money

    Trump thinks he can get the same cheap oil/gas deal that India and China have got.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    You can say what you like about Pol Pot, but he was HUGE fan of the Two Ronnies.

    Especially the Mastermind sketch.

    I've heard many times that, in private, Pol Pot was an excellent host, and gently amusing.

    The poor man was shy in public.
    Well he sure took care of the problem of there being too many crowds.

    An oft overlooked monster, far closer to our lifetimes than people seem to realise.
    During some of our lifetimes.
    I remember reading a long article in the newspaper in my teens, and having nightmares.

    I might have read the same article.

    I remember once saying to my wife that 20,000 went into Tuol Sleng, and 17 survived. She said “17,000?”

    “No. 17.”
    I have had a drink with one of the 17 survivors - or 7, depending who you reference - Vann Nath, the painter

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vann_Nath

    Sad to say he was, to my mind, brutally tormented by what he'd experienced there, even 30 years later
    You would never get over that experience.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,866
    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    The lunatics really have taken over the asylum .

    It was really quite sad seeing Starmer having to stand there pretending the US was still an ally .

    If he carries on doing so, in the face of the evidence, then we have a problem.
    Unless he and Mandelson knows something we don't.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,866
    *Know* something, that should say , there.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,155
    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Why do people not like Donald Trump? Nate White's response:

    A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

    For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

    So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

    Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

    I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

    But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

    Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

    And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

    There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

    This is cringe-worthy shite, with a large dash of excruciating British snobbery. Trump is genuinely funny. He might be worse than Hitler or a nastier version of Caligula, or merely a grim parallel with Pinochet, but he IS funny. If you watch him without prejudice - hard for many of middling wits - you will see it. Probably beyond you
    You have a very warped sense of humour in that case. Probably find accidents and amputations funny as well.
    It is somewhat to my shame that I agree with Leon on this. I despise Trump and despair that he has been reelected, but I distinctly remember moments from the election campaign where I raised a wry smile at his comic timing and self-deprecation.

    I am open to ideas on the penance I should do for such despicable tastes.
    If Boris Johnson had found his true level and become an unknown struggling comedian, and you'd caught his act at an open mic event, you'd probably think he was better than your low expectations of such things.

    Trump's comedy act is a one lower level than that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    Can Europe Back Ukraine’s Fight Alone?
    For the first time in decades, European leaders face a US commander-in-chief who doesn’t care for Cold War-era pieties
    https://newlinesmag.com/argument/can-europe-back-ukraines-fight-alone/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    You can say what you like about Pol Pot, but he was HUGE fan of the Two Ronnies.

    Especially the Mastermind sketch.

    I've heard many times that, in private, Pol Pot was an excellent host, and gently amusing.

    The poor man was shy in public.
    Well he sure took care of the problem of there being too many crowds.

    An oft overlooked monster, far closer to our lifetimes than people seem to realise.
    During some of our lifetimes.
    I remember reading a long article in the newspaper in my teens, and having nightmares.

    I might have read the same article.

    I remember once saying to my wife that 20,000 went into Tuol Sleng, and 17 survived. She said “17,000?”

    “No. 17.”
    I have had a drink with one of the 17 survivors - or 7, depending who you reference - Vann Nath, the painter

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vann_Nath

    Sad to say he was, to my mind, brutally tormented by what he'd experienced there, even 30 years later
    You would never get over that experience.
    Indeed

    Look at Primo Levi
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,853
    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    The lunatics really have taken over the asylum .

    It was really quite sad seeing Starmer having to stand there pretending the US was still an ally .

    If he carries on doing so, in the face of the evidence, then we have a problem.
    Yes the question is just how mental is Trump going to have to get for Starmer to give up pretending there's any point.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,152
    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Why do people not like Donald Trump? Nate White's response:

    A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

    For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

    So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

    Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

    I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

    But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

    Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

    And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

    There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

    This is cringe-worthy shite, with a large dash of excruciating British snobbery. Trump is genuinely funny. He might be worse than Hitler or a nastier version of Caligula, or merely a grim parallel with Pinochet, but he IS funny. If you watch him without prejudice - hard for many of middling wits - you will see it. Probably beyond you
    You have a very warped sense of humour in that case. Probably find accidents and amputations funny as well.
    It is somewhat to my shame that I agree with Leon on this. I despise Trump and despair that he has been reelected, but I distinctly remember moments from the election campaign where I raised a wry smile at his comic timing and self-deprecation.

    I am open to ideas on the penance I should do for such despicable tastes.
    Psychopaths are often very charming
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,189
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Manchuria latest:



    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    What exactly are Russia giving to attain all these advantageous positions?
    Money

    Trump thinks he can get the same cheap oil/gas deal that India and China have got.
    And he wants all the billionaires that America forced us to boot out. Meet the new management, same as the old.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,822

    Prosecutors in Jan 6 cases demoted: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/28/doj-demotions-prosecutors-trump-00206762

    The rule of law ever more eroded.

    They were just doing their job and for that they get attacked in this way . The USA is fast turning into the richest third world country on the planet .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,672

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Manchuria latest:



    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    What exactly are Russia giving to attain all these advantageous positions?
    Money

    Trump thinks he can get the same cheap oil/gas deal that India and China have got.
    And he wants all the billionaires that America forced us to boot out. Meet the new management, same as the old.
    Yes, it's quite transparent given that the sanctions easing seem to be for individual oligarchs rather than a wide easing against Russia.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,015
    Scott_xP said:

    @krassenstein
    BREAKING: Ontario, Canada's Premier Doug Ford just threatened to cut US electricity to several American states if Trump's tariffs go into effect:

    "If they want to try to annihilate Ontario, I will do anything , including cutting off their energy, with a smile on my face."

    This is ALL Trump's fault. Just remember that!

    https://x.com/krassenstein/status/1896673040836309320

    Funny to think he used to be known as the less charismatic sibling of the crackhead mayor of Toronto, who failed to win election as mayor in his brothers place. Now a three time provincial GE winner.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080
    Interesting idea

    @gabriel_zucman

    Barring any last minute change, the 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada are going into effect tomorrow

    What should these countries (and, tomorrow, the European Union) do?

    Contrary to a widely held view, Mexico, Canada and individual EU countries have leverage

    America’s Achilles’ heel is its highly internationalized oligarchy: a small group of ultra-wealthy individuals whose fortunes depend on access to global markets.

    The most effective countermeasure is simple: tariffs for oligarchs

    If Tesla wants to sell cars in Canada and Mexico, Tesla – and its main shareholder, Musk – should be required to pay extra taxes in those countries

    Concretely, condition market access to Musk paying a wealth tax

    It shifts the economic conflict from a battle between countries to one between consumers and oligarchs

    Consumers of Mexico and Canada: unite to make Musk pay!

    https://x.com/gabriel_zucman/status/1896664123687215197
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    Jonathan said:

    Emperor Palpatine told a great knock knock joke. What a loveable old rogue.

    Knock knock!
    Who's there?
    Alderraan?
    WRONG!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707

    MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.

    None of which can fly off our carriers
    Reflecting on this, we need the USA to not undermine F35s. IMO they won't, as there are 600 ordered for Europe with prospects for hundreds more; never mind those for elsewhere.

    My suggestion is that for our defence expenditure growth we will order further Eurofighters, for which there is a still running assembly line in Lancashire, and it is good economically since we have a nearly 40% share in it. These are more applicable to deploying forces to mainland Europe than F35s.

    My suggestion for what is likely with F35s is that we will maintain the current trend. We have 48 on order, and 26 indicated but not afaik committed. If the USA cripples the programme it is a cost of many 10s of billions to them. And their delivery of the next big update is running so slowly that the USAF has refused to order more for now (when I last checked), and Lockheed are running the production lines for stock that they will update later.

    So imo pause, pivot to another perhaps 24 or 36 latest Eurofighters, and go from there.
    Yes, but this is all exceptionally long term and Trump is in real time
    True, however the current Govt will have been all over the short term tactical stuff that could be done since last summer. And certain things the last Govt were sorting as well, to an extent.

    I've no idea what has actually been done, but it's noticeable that certain contracts have been going through and contractors gearing up. One example - BAe Systems hired an extra 2500+ graduates and apprentices in 2024.

    I have not seen reports of production rates being sped up, or new kit that is close to productyion being expedited. But I don't think it would be announced. And some of the management, especially the Army, is a shitshow.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,738
    edited March 3

    Jenrick takes aim at the government’s weak spot:

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1896643105476215150

    If Starmer was serious about placing the UK on a war footing, he would not have Ed Miliband as his Energy Secretary.

    That's a fucking great idea - let's further expose ourselves to gas imports from Qatar, the US and Russia.

    If there's one thing Trump is right about, it's that Europe has fucked itself by relying on Russian energy. We desperately need to move to domestic generation as quickly as possible, whether that's gas, renewables or nuclear.

    With our gas production set to half by the early 2030s, Miliband or no Miliband, we're left with only 2/3 options.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,015

    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    The lunatics really have taken over the asylum .

    It was really quite sad seeing Starmer having to stand there pretending the US was still an ally .

    If he carries on doing so, in the face of the evidence, then we have a problem.
    Unless he and Mandelson knows something we don't.
    Living in yesterday's world.
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    White House directs officials to draft proposal to lift US sanctions on Russia
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/03/trump-sanctions-russia

    Once again, should we consider the approach that Ted Heath rejected?
    Hmmm. I wonder if Trump's ignorance is being reinforced by those around him, as well as his own existence in a personal bubble.

    In his first term they stopped giving him daily intelligence briefings because he paid no attention.

    Perhaps Mr Starmer could explain that Russia is giving technology to North Korea that will let their nuclear missiles hit the USA with greater reliability and accuracy?
    "Is that true, Vlad?"

    "Nyet"
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Manchuria latest:



    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    What exactly are Russia giving to attain all these advantageous positions?
    Money

    That is the simplest explanation, and probably at the heart of it all, but I still think they have other leverage over Trump. Putin is the only foreign leader that Trump is cowed by, even other wrong 'uns Trump likes don't instill the same fawning or subservience.
    I demur. In his twisted mind, there’s a pecking order. So Macron and Starmer could push back at Vance and Trump let them, but he jumped at Zelensky.

    Classic bully.

    When will a former President speak? I know they almost never criticise their successors, but this?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Manchuria latest:



    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    What exactly are Russia giving to attain all these advantageous positions?
    Money

    Trump thinks he can get the same cheap oil/gas deal that India and China have got.
    And he wants all the billionaires that America forced us to boot out. Meet the new management, same as the old.
    Yes, it's quite transparent given that the sanctions easing seem to be for individual oligarchs rather than a wide easing against Russia.
    A month ago, there were people here on PB regularly praising Trump.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,663

    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    The lunatics really have taken over the asylum .

    It was really quite sad seeing Starmer having to stand there pretending the US was still an ally .

    If he carries on doing so, in the face of the evidence, then we have a problem.
    Unless he and Mandelson knows something we don't.
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3h
    And again. I’m not sure how much longer the fiction Trump is our ally can be maintained.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    Manchuria latest:



    NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦
    @NOELreports

    🇺🇸 Reuters: The U.S. is drafting a plan to ease some sanctions on Russia. The White House has tasked the State Dept. & Treasury with identifying sanctions that could be lifted. Talks with Russian officials may take place soon, including potential relief for some oligarchs.

    https://reuters.com/world/white-house-seeks-plan-possible-russia-sanctions-relief-sources-say-2025-03-03/

    What exactly are Russia giving to attain all these advantageous positions?
    Money

    Trump thinks he can get the same cheap oil/gas deal that India and China have got.
    And he wants all the billionaires that America forced us to boot out. Meet the new management, same as the old.
    Yes, it's quite transparent given that the sanctions easing seem to be for individual oligarchs rather than a wide easing against Russia.
    A month ago, there were people here on PB regularly praising Trump.
    Some even suggested the Tories should come together with Reform!
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,289
    nico67 said:

    Prosecutors in Jan 6 cases demoted: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/28/doj-demotions-prosecutors-trump-00206762

    The rule of law ever more eroded.

    They were just doing their job and for that they get attacked in this way . The USA is fast turning into the richest third world country on the planet .
    Hold that thought. Within 10 years the US may indeed be basically worthless.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely

    I'd usually dismiss it, but then I remember "they" tried to kill Trump at least twice, and came exceptionally close - and quite a few PBers openly expressed regrets that the guy in Pennsylvania missed
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,738
    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely

    I'd usually dismiss it, but then I remember "they" tried to kill Trump at least twice, and came exceptionally close - and quite a few PBers openly expressed regrets that the guy in Pennsylvania missed
    Which was stupid, because we'd have ended up with Vance instead.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,289
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    You can say what you like about Pol Pot, but he was HUGE fan of the Two Ronnies.

    Especially the Mastermind sketch.

    I've heard many times that, in private, Pol Pot was an excellent host, and gently amusing.

    The poor man was shy in public.
    Well he sure took care of the problem of there being too many crowds.

    An oft overlooked monster, far closer to our lifetimes than people seem to realise.
    During some of our lifetimes.
    I remember reading a long article in the newspaper in my teens, and having nightmares.

    I might have read the same article.

    I remember once saying to my wife that 20,000 went into Tuol Sleng, and 17 survived. She said “17,000?”

    “No. 17.”
    I have had a drink with one of the 17 survivors - or 7, depending who you reference - Vann Nath, the painter

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vann_Nath

    Sad to say he was, to my mind, brutally tormented by what he'd experienced there, even 30 years later
    Population of Warsaw in 1939= 1.3 million. Population of Warsaw in 1945- 800. Not 800,000. 800 people.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,313
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Why do people not like Donald Trump? Nate White's response:

    A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

    For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

    So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

    Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

    I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

    But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

    Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

    And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

    There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It?s all surface.

    This is cringe-worthy shite, with a large dash of excruciating British snobbery. Trump is genuinely funny. He might be worse than Hitler or a nastier version of Caligula, or merely a grim parallel with Pinochet, but he IS funny. If you watch him without prejudice - hard for many of middling wits - you will see it. Probably beyond you
    In the pub. Just shown my wife. Her conclusion was 'What a Pillock you are'. Just saying
    I imagine this might become one of your fondest marital memories. In years to come when your wife is divorcing you sorry affectionately reminiscing about the peaks of your years together she will say "OMG remember that time we were in the pub and you forced me to sit down and awkwardly read a conversation on your smartphone that you'd had online with people I've never met just so that I could agree that this one particular person was a pillock, those were the days, eh?"
    Well as you jolly well know, because we discussed this a few months ago (November I believe), when I am together with friends and family (as I am tonight in our holiday home) we occasionally sign on to have a good laugh at your posts.

    How we laugh. They were in hysterics earlier when you failed miserably at very basic maths regarding ancestry.

    Great entertainment for us all. Keep it up. It is fantastic stuff.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,738
    Will the King of Canada turn off the lights?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,282
    .
    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting idea

    @gabriel_zucman

    Barring any last minute change, the 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada are going into effect tomorrow

    What should these countries (and, tomorrow, the European Union) do?

    Contrary to a widely held view, Mexico, Canada and individual EU countries have leverage

    America’s Achilles’ heel is its highly internationalized oligarchy: a small group of ultra-wealthy individuals whose fortunes depend on access to global markets.

    The most effective countermeasure is simple: tariffs for oligarchs

    If Tesla wants to sell cars in Canada and Mexico, Tesla – and its main shareholder, Musk – should be required to pay extra taxes in those countries

    Concretely, condition market access to Musk paying a wealth tax

    It shifts the economic conflict from a battle between countries to one between consumers and oligarchs

    Consumers of Mexico and Canada: unite to make Musk pay!

    https://x.com/gabriel_zucman/status/1896664123687215197

    Isn’t there a general principle that laws shouldn’t target individuals? A dangerous route to go down…
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,724
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely

    I'd usually dismiss it, but then I remember "they" tried to kill Trump at least twice, and came exceptionally close - and quite a few PBers openly expressed regrets that the guy in Pennsylvania missed
    Which was stupid, because we'd have ended up with Vance instead.
    Turns out Baldrick’s mother was right. You shouldn’t trust men with beards.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080
    RobD said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting idea

    @gabriel_zucman

    Barring any last minute change, the 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada are going into effect tomorrow

    What should these countries (and, tomorrow, the European Union) do?

    Contrary to a widely held view, Mexico, Canada and individual EU countries have leverage

    America’s Achilles’ heel is its highly internationalized oligarchy: a small group of ultra-wealthy individuals whose fortunes depend on access to global markets.

    The most effective countermeasure is simple: tariffs for oligarchs

    If Tesla wants to sell cars in Canada and Mexico, Tesla – and its main shareholder, Musk – should be required to pay extra taxes in those countries

    Concretely, condition market access to Musk paying a wealth tax

    It shifts the economic conflict from a battle between countries to one between consumers and oligarchs

    Consumers of Mexico and Canada: unite to make Musk pay!

    https://x.com/gabriel_zucman/status/1896664123687215197

    Isn’t there a general principle that laws shouldn’t target individuals? A dangerous route to go down…
    It wouldn't target an individual

    It would target any owner of a car company
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,015
    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    Nigelb said:

    nico67 said:

    The lunatics really have taken over the asylum .

    It was really quite sad seeing Starmer having to stand there pretending the US was still an ally .

    If he carries on doing so, in the face of the evidence, then we have a problem.
    I’m getting close to the point where I’ll gladly be a bit poorer if that means we could tell Trump to go fxck himself .
    I passed that point a week back.
    I think it's a series of revelations around 'he cannot really mean what he says, right?' and each of us realises that, yes, he does, at different time.

    America is now pretty clear it holds no regard for any past history of alliance. That may not mean we immediately follow suit, we are weaker than them, but it cannot be ignored either.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,822
    edited March 3
    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely

    I'd usually dismiss it, but then I remember "they" tried to kill Trump at least twice, and came exceptionally close - and quite a few PBers openly expressed regrets that the guy in Pennsylvania missed
    Given Vance now seems even more dangerous than Trump perhaps we dodged a bullet when the bullet missed !

    Although it could be that Vance didn’t have the full Maga love and might have struggled to win .
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,988
    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely.
    Nah. Just an unconvinvcing effort to look human.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,243
    RobD said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting idea

    @gabriel_zucman

    Barring any last minute change, the 25% tariffs on Mexico and Canada are going into effect tomorrow

    What should these countries (and, tomorrow, the European Union) do?

    Contrary to a widely held view, Mexico, Canada and individual EU countries have leverage

    America’s Achilles’ heel is its highly internationalized oligarchy: a small group of ultra-wealthy individuals whose fortunes depend on access to global markets.

    The most effective countermeasure is simple: tariffs for oligarchs

    If Tesla wants to sell cars in Canada and Mexico, Tesla – and its main shareholder, Musk – should be required to pay extra taxes in those countries

    Concretely, condition market access to Musk paying a wealth tax

    It shifts the economic conflict from a battle between countries to one between consumers and oligarchs

    Consumers of Mexico and Canada: unite to make Musk pay!

    https://x.com/gabriel_zucman/status/1896664123687215197

    Isn’t there a general principle that laws shouldn’t target individuals? A dangerous route to go down…
    We sanction Russian oligarchs. Why not American ones?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely

    I'd usually dismiss it, but then I remember "they" tried to kill Trump at least twice, and came exceptionally close - and quite a few PBers openly expressed regrets that the guy in Pennsylvania missed
    Your friend has the lowest opinion yet of Musk and Vance. Astonishing that any father would put their kids in the firing line and hide behind them
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,155
    Merz, after watching the scene in the Oval Office 'several times' has said the row was planned.

    "In my opinion, it was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,988
    nico67 said:

    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely

    I'd usually dismiss it, but then I remember "they" tried to kill Trump at least twice, and came exceptionally close - and quite a few PBers openly expressed regrets that the guy in Pennsylvania missed
    Given Vance now seems even more dangerous than Trump perhaps we dodged a bullet when the bullet missed !

    Although it could be that Vance didn’t have the full Maga love and might have struggled to win .
    Interesting dynamic going into the election though. If Trump was gone, would that affection have transferred to Vance? Not entirely would be my guess. It could have been an extremely close election.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,866
    Where is SeaShantyIrish ?
    I would be interested to hear his view on the ground-level feeling on Trump, in his part of the U.S.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely

    I'd usually dismiss it, but then I remember "they" tried to kill Trump at least twice, and came exceptionally close - and quite a few PBers openly expressed regrets that the guy in Pennsylvania missed
    Your friend has the lowest opinion yet of Musk and Vance. Astonishing that any father would put their kids in the firing line and hide behind them
    Easy to believe, of that pair.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080

    nico67 said:

    Leon said:

    Yokes said:

    Actually if you want to your money on someone getting a hole in the head, its not Trump, its Musk.

    Vance must be close behind in the firing line.
    An American friend of mine has a dark dark theory: Musk and Vance have started appearing with ther kids everywhere, on their shoulders and the like, because it makes an assassination attempt much more morally complex, and ergo less likely

    I'd usually dismiss it, but then I remember "they" tried to kill Trump at least twice, and came exceptionally close - and quite a few PBers openly expressed regrets that the guy in Pennsylvania missed
    Given Vance now seems even more dangerous than Trump perhaps we dodged a bullet when the bullet missed !

    Although it could be that Vance didn’t have the full Maga love and might have struggled to win .
    Interesting dynamic going into the election though. If Trump was gone, would that affection have transferred to Vance? Not entirely would be my guess. It could have been an extremely close election.
    William Hague in The Times

    I happened to be in Washington DC as last week’s momentous meetings unfolded and observed two striking features of the political atmosphere that I have not seen before in America. One is an extraordinary level of loyalty, among Republicans in general and members of the new administration in particular, to Trump in person and every word he utters. It is part devotion, part fear of taking even a tiny step out of line, but it is intense. It goes well beyond anything I have witnessed as far back as the Reagan years.

    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/how-zelensky-misread-trumps-white-house-zmzswfc79

    So no, I don't think Vance would have won easily
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,289
    There are things I don't want to talk about. Omarska and Prijedor are close to the top of that list.

    They are however on my mind. Especially since Bucha. We can not, must not forget what can happen. Admittedly this kind of butchery is reflective of weakness- but what is the Russian army, if not weak.

    They say the smell is what you take away with you. I think that is true. People tell me that the front line in eastern Ukraine has that specific smell. I try not to think about it. Thousands of dead and the smell and the flies when the snow melts.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,243
    So Trump increases China tariffs by another 10% (on top of the 10% last month). And Mexico and Canada 25%.

    I assume the EU will be next.

    He really is speed running losing friends and alienating people. Other than Russia of course. But an impoverished petrostate the size of Italy is not going to counterbalance anything.

    Shock treatment to the economy. No wonder Truss is such a fan.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    edited March 3
    NYT says nobody has a fucking clue about the motivation behind Trump’s anti-Canada policies, with some speculation that he simply doesn’t like Justin Trudeau.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,738
    edited March 3

    Eabhal said:

    Jenrick takes aim at the government’s weak spot:

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1896643105476215150

    If Starmer was serious about placing the UK on a war footing, he would not have Ed Miliband as his Energy Secretary.

    That's a fucking great idea - let's further expose ourselves to gas imports from Qatar, the US and Russia.

    If there's one thing Trump is right about, it's that Europe has fucked itself by relying on Russian energy. We desperately need to move to domestic generation as quickly as possible, whether that's gas, renewables or nuclear.

    With our gas production set to half by the early 2030s, Miliband or no Miliband, we're left with only 2/3 options.
    There is a deep stupidity in your comment which I am amazed even you cannot see. We are exposed to gas imports anyway. We have been cutting production witout cutting usage. Miliband has been destroying North Sea oil and gas production at the very moment the rest of the world has realised they need to increase it and are doing so.

    If you want to deal with demand - great. I agree with that. But to cut supply without cutting demand and expect aything other than greater reliance on imports is absolutely moronic.

    Norway will drill somewhere in excess of 150 wells this year including at least 40 exploration wells. They have already said that the Oil and Gas sector will be worth $1.4 trillion to the Norwegian economy in the next 20 years. They will get the tax benefits and sell us the oil.

    We will be lucky to make double figures for total wells drilled this year. And even if they do dump the joker Miliband and get someone sane in, it still won't help because all the drilling rigs are leaving the UK sector for places where they are actually wanted. So we won't even have the capacity to drill new wells.

    And your answer is we need to keep destroying the offshore industry (and our whole petrochemical industry which we still need even if we don't burn the stuff) and import the oil and gas at higher costs, with poorer environmental controls and exposing us further to extrenal threats and supply interruptions.

    Great idea. Well done.
    We have exactly the same tax incentives - an 84% allowance! - that the Norwegians have for development. Miliband has made fuck all difference to volume of gas we are going to extract over the next 20 years. So we either massively cut demand only for energy, or find another source for it.



    Jenrick would have us import gas from Qatar, the US and Russia. Bonkers.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,663
    kamski said:

    Merz, after watching the scene in the Oval Office 'several times' has said the row was planned.

    "In my opinion, it was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office."

    Guy on Times Radio (Gerald Baker iirc) said this seems unlikely as this was a 'pool spray' which normally only last ten minutes for a lot of smiling and a few photos. If they planned a row then they would have needed to go early as these things wrap up quite quickly. It was 40 mins or so before the Scots Irish decided they were at a country wedding between two cousins and only a massive fight across the tables would honour the day.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080
    Ratters said:

    So Trump increases China tariffs by another 10% (on top of the 10% last month). And Mexico and Canada 25%.

    I assume the EU will be next.

    He really is speed running losing friends and alienating people. Other than Russia of course. But an impoverished petrostate the size of Italy is not going to counterbalance anything.

    Shock treatment to the economy. No wonder Truss is such a fan.

    Also Hague in The Times

    The second is a complete conviction among the same people that government in America has become bloated, corrupt and wasteful to an extent that only drastic action will remedy; and that as budgets are slashed, the true scale of that waste will become apparent, with the Biden administration as the worst offender in allowing it. That is why entire agencies are being closed or suspended and Elon Musk allowed to run riot. And this conviction includes the firm belief that aid to Ukraine has been part of the same wasteful, unaccountable, corrupted Biden-sponsored spending.

    They really are on a mission, and they really have fucking clue what they are doing, so obviously Truss is a fan...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,147
    edited March 3

    Ratters said:

    So Trump increases China tariffs by another 10% (on top of the 10% last month). And Mexico and Canada 25%.

    I assume the EU will be next.

    He really is speed running losing friends and alienating people. Other than Russia of course. But an impoverished petrostate the size of Italy is not going to counterbalance anything.

    Shock treatment to the economy. No wonder Truss is such a fan.

    The hilarious thing is that the U.S. business community at large seemed to celebrate Trump’s coming, presumably assuming he was not serious about trashing the economy.

    Well, I find it hilarious.
    They will get what they deserve. The people I feel sorry for are the tens of millions of Americans who voted against Trump but will not be spared from his destruction of their country.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    edited March 3
    kamski said:

    Merz, after watching the scene in the Oval Office 'several times' has said the row was planned.

    "In my opinion, it was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office."

    I don’t agree.
    But it’s genuinely fascinating that the Chancellor-elect of Germany, a life-long Atlanticist I understand, is coming out publicly with these pronouncements.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080
    @chadloder.bsky.social‬

    Elon Musk appears to be wearing a SafeLife-style level 3+ concealable kevlar vest under his shirt. That's why his looks this way. He is terrified and in fear for his life.

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadloder.bsky.social/post/3ljiwm2svk22k
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,015
    edited March 3

    NYT says nobody has a fucking clue about the motivation behind Trump’s anti-Canada policies, with some speculation that he simply doesn’t like Justin Trudeau.

    Did he not realise the Liberals were on course for a big defeat before he opened his mouth?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080

    NYT says nobody has a fucking clue about the motivation behind Trump’s anti-Canada policies, with some speculation that he simply doesn’t like Justin Trudeau.

    @DPJHodges

    Is anyone going to actually point out Donald Trump is going mad. Not doing politically dubious things. But entering literal madness.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,738
    edited March 3
    Scott_xP said:

    Ratters said:

    So Trump increases China tariffs by another 10% (on top of the 10% last month). And Mexico and Canada 25%.

    I assume the EU will be next.

    He really is speed running losing friends and alienating people. Other than Russia of course. But an impoverished petrostate the size of Italy is not going to counterbalance anything.

    Shock treatment to the economy. No wonder Truss is such a fan.

    Also Hague in The Times

    The second is a complete conviction among the same people that government in America has become bloated, corrupt and wasteful to an extent that only drastic action will remedy; and that as budgets are slashed, the true scale of that waste will become apparent, with the Biden administration as the worst offender in allowing it. That is why entire agencies are being closed or suspended and Elon Musk allowed to run riot. And this conviction includes the firm belief that aid to Ukraine has been part of the same wasteful, unaccountable, corrupted Biden-sponsored spending.

    They really are on a mission, and they really have fucking clue what they are doing, so obviously Truss is a fan...
    Yes, the most obvious comparison is Truss. But there isn't an emergency brake like we have in the UK.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,663
    Scott_xP said:

    NYT says nobody has a fucking clue about the motivation behind Trump’s anti-Canada policies, with some speculation that he simply doesn’t like Justin Trudeau.

    @DPJHodges

    Is anyone going to actually point out Donald Trump is going mad. Not doing politically dubious things. But entering literal madness.
    Some of us on PB have been saying this for ages.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,147
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Jenrick takes aim at the government’s weak spot:

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1896643105476215150

    If Starmer was serious about placing the UK on a war footing, he would not have Ed Miliband as his Energy Secretary.

    That's a fucking great idea - let's further expose ourselves to gas imports from Qatar, the US and Russia.

    If there's one thing Trump is right about, it's that Europe has fucked itself by relying on Russian energy. We desperately need to move to domestic generation as quickly as possible, whether that's gas, renewables or nuclear.

    With our gas production set to half by the early 2030s, Miliband or no Miliband, we're left with only 2/3 options.
    There is a deep stupidity in your comment which I am amazed even you cannot see. We are exposed to gas imports anyway. We have been cutting production witout cutting usage. Miliband has been destroying North Sea oil and gas production at the very moment the rest of the world has realised they need to increase it and are doing so.

    If you want to deal with demand - great. I agree with that. But to cut supply without cutting demand and expect aything other than greater reliance on imports is absolutely moronic.

    Norway will drill somewhere in excess of 150 wells this year including at least 40 exploration wells. They have already said that the Oil and Gas sector will be worth $1.4 trillion to the Norwegian economy in the next 20 years. They will get the tax benefits and sell us the oil.

    We will be lucky to make double figures for total wells drilled this year. And even if they do dump the joker Miliband and get someone sane in, it still won't help because all the drilling rigs are leaving the UK sector for places where they are actually wanted. So we won't even have the capacity to drill new wells.

    And your answer is we need to keep destroying the offshore industry (and our whole petrochemical industry which we still need even if we don't burn the stuff) and import the oil and gas at higher costs, with poorer environmental controls and exposing us further to extrenal threats and supply interruptions.

    Great idea. Well done.
    We have exactly the same tax incentives - an 84% allowance! - that the Norwegians have for development. Miliband has made fuck all difference to volume of gas we are going to extract over the next 20 years. So we either massively cut demand only for energy, or find another source for it.



    Jenrick would have us import gas from Qatar, the US and Russia. Bonkers.
    You really are dumb aren't you. The Norwegians have a much wider range of incentives to help drilling. The development incentives we have are only for existing fields and only for specific operations. Nothing for exploration, nothing for near field development. The scope of UK tax incentives is tiny compared to Norway.

    And even if the incentives existed we won't drill those wells because Miliband has cancelled all new exploration licences and has also held up all additional near field development. We are seeing it right now. No new licences. Which in turn makes existing fields uneconomic so companies are cutting their losses and pulling out. You can see it in the numbers of wells being drilled and the number of fields being shut down. Miliband has destroyed the North Sea as a viable place to do business.

    Thankfully I am going to be kept gainfully employed until I retire by doing abandonments on all those oil wells. I start on the Forties project at the end of this month. Lots of work closing down the North Sea when it should have been continuing for another 2 or 3 decades.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 849

    kamski said:

    Merz, after watching the scene in the Oval Office 'several times' has said the row was planned.

    "In my opinion, it was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office."

    Guy on Times Radio (Gerald Baker iirc) said this seems unlikely as this was a 'pool spray' which normally only last ten minutes for a lot of smiling and a few photos. If they planned a row then they would have needed to go early as these things wrap up quite quickly. It was 40 mins or so before the Scots Irish decided they were at a country wedding between two cousins and only a massive fight across the tables would honour the day.
    So if not planned why didn't they wrap it up after the usual ten minutes?
    Other commentators have referenced the deliberately antagonistic questions from "reporters" with form for asking planted questions.
    Also that the meltdown is not unusual for Trump but that it usually happens behind closed doors not in ront of the press.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,988
    Scott_xP said:

    @chadloder.bsky.social‬

    Elon Musk appears to be wearing a SafeLife-style level 3+ concealable kevlar vest under his shirt. That's why his looks this way. He is terrified and in fear for his life.

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadloder.bsky.social/post/3ljiwm2svk22k

    Goig to have to be a headshot then?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,155

    kamski said:

    Merz, after watching the scene in the Oval Office 'several times' has said the row was planned.

    "In my opinion, it was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office."

    I don’t agree.
    But it’s genuinely fascinating that the Chancellor-elect of Germany, a life-long Atlanticist I understand, is coming out publicly with these pronouncements.

    kamski said:

    Merz, after watching the scene in the Oval Office 'several times' has said the row was planned.

    "In my opinion, it was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office."

    I don’t agree.
    But it’s genuinely fascinating that the Chancellor-elect of Germany, a life-long Atlanticist I understand, is coming out publicly with these pronouncements.
    He really didn't like the pro AfD interventions by Musk and Vance, and I expect some kind of attempt to rein in Twitter
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Merz, after watching the scene in the Oval Office 'several times' has said the row was planned.

    "In my opinion, it was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office."

    I don’t agree.
    But it’s genuinely fascinating that the Chancellor-elect of Germany, a life-long Atlanticist I understand, is coming out publicly with these pronouncements.

    kamski said:

    Merz, after watching the scene in the Oval Office 'several times' has said the row was planned.

    "In my opinion, it was not a spontaneous reaction to interventions by Zelenskyy, but obviously a manufactured escalation in this meeting in the Oval Office."

    I don’t agree.
    But it’s genuinely fascinating that the Chancellor-elect of Germany, a life-long Atlanticist I understand, is coming out publicly with these pronouncements.
    He really didn't like the pro AfD interventions by Musk and Vance, and I expect some kind of attempt to rein in Twitter
    Hope so.
    Musk desperately needs to be taken down a peg, and X/Twitter is a cancer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,988

    NYT says nobody has a fucking clue about the motivation behind Trump’s anti-Canada policies, with some speculation that he simply doesn’t like Justin Trudeau.

    America is currently run on the basis of petty vengeances and perceived slights.
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