Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
Sean, you are right, but give your head a wobble, just in case.
If correct, according to Sky, Zelensky has said that the end of the war is a long way off. Right or wrong, Trump is not happy . In all seriousness, I think in this case Trump has a point here. Tha plain truth is we all need US support right now and for a good few years. Why give Trump an excuse to pull the plug?
We won't get it. Trump just wants an excuse to pull the plug on US aid for Zelensky so he can focus on his trade wars with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU and funding more border agents to stop and deport immigrants and slashing the Federal government and EDI which is his main focus
If so the w/e was a waste of time. And God help Ukraine .
The rest of NATO just needs to increase defence spending and fill the gap
Nonsense. The problem is that is impossible within a realistic timescale.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
I don't think Zelensky is long, he will be replaced by Zaluzhnyi before the end of the year imo
Whoever signs the deal will be giving up on their career in Ukrainian politics, so it would be extremely unkind of Zelensky to give up before it's signed.
"America will not put up with it for much longer!"
That is incendiary William. I would say the odds are 75% Trump leaves Ukraine to fend for itself and 25% he signs his protection racket deal and insists on new elections and Zelensky is banished to Milton Keynes.
According to the NYT, Zelensky’s “long way to go” was supposed to be part of an attempt to smooth it over again with the White House, and was simply meant as a way to describe the collective efforts necessary for peace.
Seems like Trump’s in no mood for that.
This shows why interpreters are vital. Zelensky was ill-advised to walk into what he must have known was a trap, but to do so relying on his own limited English was stupid. It is not just translation; interpreters mean Vance shuts up for a bit so people can think before they react.
Sir Humphrey – if you must do this damn silly thing, don't do it in this damn silly way.
"He won't even respect me by speaking English!"
The contortions people are going through to make this Zelensky's fault are ridiculous. Of course it's a long way to go. We would be months away from a formal agreement in normal circumstances.
"America will not put up with it for much longer!"
That is incendiary William. I would say the odds are 75% Trump leaves Ukraine to fend for itself and 25% he signs his protection racket deal and insists on new elections and Zelensky is banished to Milton Keynes.
According to the NYT, Zelensky’s “long way to go” was supposed to be part of an attempt to smooth it over again with the White House, and was simply meant as a way to describe the collective efforts necessary for peace.
Seems like Trump’s in no mood for that.
This shows why interpreters are vital. Zelensky was ill-advised to walk into what he must have known was a trap, but to do so relying on his own limited English was stupid. It is not just translation; interpreters mean Vance shuts up for a bit so people can think before they react.
Sir Humphrey – if you must do this damn silly thing, don't do it in this damn silly way.
"He won't even respect me by speaking English!"
The contortions people are going through to make this Zelensky's fault are ridiculous. Of course it's a long way to go. We would be months away from a formal agreement in normal circumstances.
What doesn't take long is subjugation.
This is entirely down to Trump and his crew being malevolent actors.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Yep - it's a slight problem but go back even a year and I doubt anyone anywhere was saying that America was an untrustworthy partner..
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Sure, but that doesn't make them useless.
Gripen uses an American engine built under license. That’s been used to block sales, before.
Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
Yes as a Conservative Party member I would definitely now prefer to see us giving confidence and supply to Labour to an arrangement with Reform, and I wouldn't have said that a month ago.
Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
Sean, you are right, but give your head a wobble, just in case.
Everyone needs to give their heads a wobble.
We are currently transfixed, to a ludicrous degree, in the dealings of one foreign country with two other foreign countries. The attention is vastly disproportionate given everything else that's happening in the world, and things that are happening in the UK.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Sure, but that doesn't make them useless.
Gripen uses an American engine built under license. That’s been used to block sales, before.
The new director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, questioned whether Ukraine and the United States really share common values and extended her critique to European countries who rallied around Mr. Zelensky, saying, they “don’t stand with us around these fundamental values of freedom.”
I'm fairly sure than President Trump is not a Russian agent.
Tulsi Gabbard, on the other hand, is either exceptionally stupid or working for Putin.
Or both, of course.
Yet she was nominated by all Republicans in the Senate, save Mitch McConnell.
I wonder how historians will account for this wholesale sell-out.
If the Republicans lose the mid-terms, the inquest can start there. Although giving Musk free-rein was likely the cause of death.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Yep - it's a slight problem but go back even a year and I doubt anyone anywhere was saying that America was an untrustworthy partner..
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Yep - it's a slight problem but go back even a year and I doubt anyone anywhere was saying that America was an untrustworthy partner..
Sensible people were.
Yes, comrade. Russians have always seen America as an unreliable partner.
Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
On domestic policy Badenoch would be with Reform, on foreign policy with Labour, she would give neither Farage nor Starmer C +S
Macron: "Europeans can no longer rely on NATO as they once did, because Trump's position has weakened it. We will need 10 years to free ourselves from American influence through massive local and European investment." https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1896540092338250233
TEN YEARS? Ten weeks!
Ten years is probably a fairly aggressive estimate. On a macro scale Europe has to replace a lot of technology and hardware only obtainable from the US at the moment. We also need to scale up production in many sectors that have long lead times. Aircraft like the F-35, P-8 and E-7, don't currently have viable European alternatives. Replacing them will easily take 10 years even if we start right now. The Tempest program has been around for a while now and I don't expect that to enter service in any quantity before 2035.
On the micro scale, a huge proportion of the components used in weapons come from the US. Open up a 'European' missile and two thirds of the components inside will be of US origin. Take large capacity FPGA chips, which are widespread in military hardware. All the vendors of these are either US or Chinese, nobody in Europe makes them.
Fixing that probably entails throwing money at a manufacturer like ST Micro and waiting a decade for them to spin up their own FPGA family.
I think you make good points. This is one reason why we need some things from the Mr Trump for now, until he is defenestrated. The USA can never be fully trusted, because even if Trump is gone, the previous fragile democracy has been very seriously damaged. And even if the MAGA-tendency is ruled out of power, the malign influences still exist, and the GOP is rotten throughout.
I agree that there is very short term stuff (10 weeks!), medium term (1-10 years), and the long-term things - eg the F35 is due to be in service until the 2070s or 2080s. The F-16s that Ukraine is getting for the next generation of their air force go back to 1974 - 50 years. 50 years hence is 2075.
The USA provides the overarching large scale defence infrastructure, but there are areas where Europe is equal or ahead (eg Artillery, which is for now contrast with MLRS where Europe is behind). That's similar afaics across the board.
We need to find balances on all of that.
Also, the US has real problems building things to time and budget, and their kit costs significantly more than European Kit.
Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
Sean, you are right, but give your head a wobble, just in case.
Everyone needs to give their heads a wobble.
We are currently transfixed, to a ludicrous degree, in the dealings of one foreign country with two other foreign countries. The attention is vastly disproportionate given everything else that's happening in the world, and things that are happening in the UK.
No. The whole world as we know it has changed completely. We got it wrong to trust the USA. We also were wrong to leave the EU though that will perhaps work out to advantage.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
We can turn them into helicopter carriers I guess. Do we need big helicopter carriers though? I guess we don't need big aircraft carriers so it doesn't really matter.
"America will not put up with it for much longer!"
That is incendiary William. I would say the odds are 75% Trump leaves Ukraine to fend for itself and 25% he signs his protection racket deal and insists on new elections and Zelensky is banished to Milton Keynes.
According to the NYT, Zelensky’s “long way to go” was supposed to be part of an attempt to smooth it over again with the White House, and was simply meant as a way to describe the collective efforts necessary for peace.
Seems like Trump’s in no mood for that.
This shows why interpreters are vital. Zelensky was ill-advised to walk into what he must have known was a trap, but to do so relying on his own limited English was stupid. It is not just translation; interpreters mean Vance shuts up for a bit so people can think before they react.
Sir Humphrey – if you must do this damn silly thing, don't do it in this damn silly way.
"He won't even respect me by speaking English!"
The contortions people are going through to make this Zelensky's fault are ridiculous. Of course it's a long way to go. We would be months away from a formal agreement in normal circumstances.
What doesn't take long is subjugation.
The Americans aren't acting in good faith. If they were they would try to patch up misunderstandings. Which is why it's reasonable to assume Trump isn't interested in helping Ukraine even with a deal.
If correct, according to Sky, Zelensky has said that the end of the war is a long way off. Right or wrong, Trump is not happy . In all seriousness, I think in this case Trump has a point here. Tha plain truth is we all need US support right now and for a good few years. Why give Trump an excuse to pull the plug?
We won't get it. Trump just wants an excuse to pull the plug on US aid for Zelensky so he can focus on his trade wars with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU and funding more border agents to stop and deport immigrants and slashing the Federal government and EDI which is his main focus
If so the w/e was a waste of time. And God help Ukraine .
The rest of NATO just needs to increase defence spending and fill the gap
Nonsense. The problem is that is impossible within a realistic timescale.
Of course it is possible, they would just have to slash other spending or increase taxes or expand deficits. Indeed if every NATO member paid the 3.5% of gdp the US already pays for defence to fund extra aid for Ukraine that would make a big difference. Trump is not going to fund NATO in Europe anymore unless Zelensky caves to Putin in terms of territory and him in terms of minerals
The new director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, questioned whether Ukraine and the United States really share common values and extended her critique to European countries who rallied around Mr. Zelensky, saying, they “don’t stand with us around these fundamental values of freedom.”
@yarotrof What the Trump administration seems to be most interested in is engineering a strategic rapprochement with Russia, not in ending the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is supposed to be just currency for that deal, which is why it causes so much anger when it shows agency of its own.
This is very astute.
Indeed.
That fits with my suggestion that Trump, in his head, is on these subjects somewhere between the 1950s and the 1970s, when the USSR was a superpower. He is not acknowledging history (especially economic, and population, history, in the developing and European worlds), which has happened since. The world is not like he imagines it to be, and he is only engaged with his imagination and his ego.
If correct, according to Sky, Zelensky has said that the end of the war is a long way off. Right or wrong, Trump is not happy . In all seriousness, I think in this case Trump has a point here. Tha plain truth is we all need US support right now and for a good few years. Why give Trump an excuse to pull the plug?
We won't get it. Trump just wants an excuse to pull the plug on US aid for Zelensky so he can focus on his trade wars with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU and funding more border agents to stop and deport immigrants and slashing the Federal government and EDI which is his main focus
If so the w/e was a waste of time. And God help Ukraine .
The rest of NATO just needs to increase defence spending and fill the gap
Nonsense. The problem is that is impossible within a realistic timescale.
“Will try” is preferable always to “can’t do.”
There's a bunch of people who fall for the Silver Bullet Fallacy: it it can't solve all our problems in one go, it's not worth doing.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
I don't know the extent to which they are dependent on US components.
They're riddled with US technology, unfortunately. The Saab has a US made engine but the others are hardly 100% European.
My understanding is much the Typhoon's avionics are based around 1980s-era Motorola/Freescale 68020 microprocessors. The only source for those now is Rochester Electronics in the US which, it's rumoured, purchased the rights to that chip from Freescale and put it back into production at least in part to meet demand from Typhoon operators.
Massive backlash to Starmer's "boots on the ground in Ukraine" comment from the callers to LBC. Rather than improve Starmer's standing it may take a tumble. I suspect we don't really care about Ukraine so long as Putin leaves us alone. I'm quite shocked that voters don't see the longer view.
Well he might not get his Nobel Peace Prize but Trump's mark on history is going to be significant, although I fear not in a good way.
How representative are the callers to LBC? As representative as PB?
Probably less so, since most of us (at PB) work for a living .
@yarotrof What the Trump administration seems to be most interested in is engineering a strategic rapprochement with Russia, not in ending the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is supposed to be just currency for that deal, which is why it causes so much anger when it shows agency of its own.
Why would they need Canada and Greenland then? It may be more simple (and based on past behaviour). When it comes to fight or flight, he always chooses the latter.
Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
On domestic policy Badenoch would be with Reform, on foreign policy with Labour, she would give neither Farage nor Starmer C +S
Kemi needs to forget and reject everything Reforn and Farage stands for
'If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas'
@yarotrof What the Trump administration seems to be most interested in is engineering a strategic rapprochement with Russia, not in ending the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is supposed to be just currency for that deal, which is why it causes so much anger when it shows agency of its own.
Why would they need Canada and Greenland then? It may be more simple (and based on past behaviour). When it comes to fight or flight, he always chooses the latter.
He needs Canada and Greenland so Russia and the expanded USA can carve up the Arctic and all the minerals within it between them..
Did we also vote with Russia against Ukraine and all the EU countries in the UN on the resolution about the war because Zelensky was disrespectful to Trump?
Shame. I am not religious but he seemed like a decent man - at least compared to his predecessors - and was very much trying to modernise the Church in a meaningful way. I saw an article a few days ago that said he had stuffed the Conclave with like minded Cardinals so hopefully his successor will be of a similar ilk.
The latest statement from Zelensky just now is noticeably different in tone, replying to Trump. I wonder if his advisers and Mandelson are having a word in his ear to try and tone down the more provocative stances from hom for Trump, as soon as possible.
The new director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, questioned whether Ukraine and the United States really share common values and extended her critique to European countries who rallied around Mr. Zelensky, saying, they “don’t stand with us around these fundamental values of freedom.”
I'm fairly sure than President Trump is not a Russian agent.
Tulsi Gabbard, on the other hand, is either exceptionally stupid or working for Putin.
Funniest thing about Friday's White House meltdown was Trump and Vance berating Zelenskyy for being "disrespectful", when Trump continually refers to Canada's PM as "Governor Trudeau".
If correct, according to Sky, Zelensky has said that the end of the war is a long way off. Right or wrong, Trump is not happy . In all seriousness, I think in this case Trump has a point here. Tha plain truth is we all need US support right now and for a good few years. Why give Trump an excuse to pull the plug?
We won't get it. Trump just wants an excuse to pull the plug on US aid for Zelensky so he can focus on his trade wars with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU and funding more border agents to stop and deport immigrants and slashing the Federal government and EDI which is his main focus
If so the w/e was a waste of time. And God help Ukraine .
The rest of NATO just needs to increase defence spending and fill the gap
You do realise just how intertwined a lot of our military hardware is with the US including Trident
This is far more complex than just increasing defence spending which will take years to address the crisis that we are seeing today
@yarotrof What the Trump administration seems to be most interested in is engineering a strategic rapprochement with Russia, not in ending the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is supposed to be just currency for that deal, which is why it causes so much anger when it shows agency of its own.
I would have thought that was obvious. The way the US and Russia are bargaining quite clearly implies that Ukraine has no say, and is merely being carved up as prelude to further divisions of other territory into the US and Russian spheres. We should be taking threats to Canada and Greeland very seriously.
@yarotrof What the Trump administration seems to be most interested in is engineering a strategic rapprochement with Russia, not in ending the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is supposed to be just currency for that deal, which is why it causes so much anger when it shows agency of its own.
I would have thought that was obvious. The way the US and Russia are bargaining quite clearly implies that Ukraine has no say, and is merely being carved up as prelude to further divisions of other territory into the US and Russian spheres. We should be taking threats to Canada and Greeland very seriously.
Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
I think the chances of a Lab/Con Grand Coalition at the next GE have increased substantially in recent weeks.
Before that I would have thought it inconceivable, the parties are too culturally opposed to each other.
But in this brave new world? Hmm. I am starting to wonder….
@yarotrof What the Trump administration seems to be most interested in is engineering a strategic rapprochement with Russia, not in ending the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is supposed to be just currency for that deal, which is why it causes so much anger when it shows agency of its own.
I would have thought that was obvious. The way the US and Russia are bargaining quite clearly implies that Ukraine has no say, and is merely being carved up as prelude to further divisions of other territory into the US and Russian spheres. We should be taking threats to Canada and Greeland very seriously.
But if you are serious about invading neighbouring countries would you have put Hesgeth in charge? Militaries throughout the world know when they are being taken for granted. When H R McMaster criticised Trump, Trump response was to reach for the CAPS LOCK.
They are happy with him at the moment, until they are not.
What are the bods in the CIA thinking of this volte face on Russia? Surely they know it’s idiotic and also have the dirt on Trump and Musk to force some sort of climb down?
Or have the CIA just changed beyond all recognition too?
I’ve never been a Catholic as such. Or religious. And ok, I was never baptised. In fact, to tell you the truth I don’t believe in god. However I am not a paedophile (which sets me up nicely as the reforming candidate) and the house looks nice, so I am announcing my candidacy for Pope.
If correct, according to Sky, Zelensky has said that the end of the war is a long way off. Right or wrong, Trump is not happy . In all seriousness, I think in this case Trump has a point here. Tha plain truth is we all need US support right now and for a good few years. Why give Trump an excuse to pull the plug?
We won't get it. Trump just wants an excuse to pull the plug on US aid for Zelensky so he can focus on his trade wars with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU and funding more border agents to stop and deport immigrants and slashing the Federal government and EDI which is his main focus
If so the w/e was a waste of time. And God help Ukraine .
The rest of NATO just needs to increase defence spending and fill the gap
You do realise just how intertwined a lot of our military hardware is with the US including Trident
This is far more complex than just increasing defence spending which will take years to address the crisis that we are seeing today
France has an independent nuclear missile deterrent not Trident
The US is not giving Ukraine any more support until January 2029 at the earliest so it is either the rest of NATO increase defence spending or Zelensky sues for peace on Putin and Trump's terms
Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
I think the chances of a Lab/Con Grand Coalition at the next GE have increased substantially in recent weeks.
Before that I would have thought it inconceivable, the parties are too culturally opposed to each other.
But in this brave new world? Hmm. I am starting to wonder….
It’s not something I would have expected to write, until recently.
Unfortunately, the “patriotism” of several radical right parties seems to be about attacking enemies at home, whilst fawning over enemies abroad.
What are the bods in the CIA thinking of this volte face on Russia? Surely they know it’s idiotic and also have the dirt on Trump and Musk to force some sort of climb down?
Or have the CIA just changed beyond all recognition too?
Anyone in the CIA who didn't fancy retiring in January changed their viewpoint to reflect the views of the new management.
If correct, according to Sky, Zelensky has said that the end of the war is a long way off. Right or wrong, Trump is not happy . In all seriousness, I think in this case Trump has a point here. Tha plain truth is we all need US support right now and for a good few years. Why give Trump an excuse to pull the plug?
We won't get it. Trump just wants an excuse to pull the plug on US aid for Zelensky so he can focus on his trade wars with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU and funding more border agents to stop and deport immigrants and slashing the Federal government and EDI which is his main focus
If so the w/e was a waste of time. And God help Ukraine .
The rest of NATO just needs to increase defence spending and fill the gap
You do realise just how intertwined a lot of our military hardware is with the US including Trident
This is far more complex than just increasing defence spending which will take years to address the crisis that we are seeing today
France has an independent nuclear missile deterrent not Trident
The US is not giving Ukraine any more support until January 2029 at the earliest so it is either the rest of NATO increase defence spending or Zelensky sues for peace on Putin and Trump's terms
I wasn't talking about France and it is quite usual for you to completely miss the point about our military hardware
@yarotrof What the Trump administration seems to be most interested in is engineering a strategic rapprochement with Russia, not in ending the war in Ukraine. Ukraine is supposed to be just currency for that deal, which is why it causes so much anger when it shows agency of its own.
I would have thought that was obvious. The way the US and Russia are bargaining quite clearly implies that Ukraine has no say, and is merely being carved up as prelude to further divisions of other territory into the US and Russian spheres. We should be taking threats to Canada and Greeland very seriously.
But if you are serious about invading neighbouring countries would you have put Hesgeth in charge? Militaries throughout the world know when they are being taken for granted. When H R McMaster criticised Trump, Trump response was to reach for the CAPS LOCK.
They are happy with him at the moment, until they are not.
I don't think the US is about to invade those countries, that would be a step too far for the US military, at least at the moment. I can see Trump interfering and putting a lot of pressure on them, in the way Russia does to some of its neighbours, to concede more and more privileges to the US.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Reflecting on this, we need the USA to not undermine F35s. IMO they won't, as there are 600 ordered for Europe with prospects for hundreds more; never mind those for elsewhere.
My suggestion is that for our defence expenditure growth we will order further Eurofighters, for which there is a still running assembly line in Lancashire, and it is good economically since we have a nearly 40% share in it. These are more applicable to deploying forces to mainland Europe than F35s.
My suggestion for what is likely with F35s is that we will maintain the current trend. We have 48 on order, and 26 indicated but not afaik committed. If the USA cripples the programme it is a cost of many 10s of billions to them. And their delivery of the next big update is running so slowly that the USAF has refused to order more for now (when I last checked), and Lockheed are running the production lines for stock that they will update later.
So imo pause, pivot to another perhaps 24 or 36 latest Eurofighters, and go from there.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Reflecting on this, we need the USA to not undermine F35s. IMO they won't, as there are 600 ordered for Europe with prospects for hundreds more; never mind those for elsewhere.
My suggestion is that for our defence expenditure growth we will order further Eurofighters, for which there is a still running assembly line in Lancashire, and it is good economically since we have a nearly 40% share in it. These are more applicable to deploying forces to mainland Europe than F35s.
My suggestion for what is likely with F35s is that we will maintain the current trend. We have 48 on order, and 26 indicated but not afaik committed. If the USA cripples the programme it is a cost of many 10s of billions to them. And their delivery of the next big update is running so slowly that the USAF has refused to order more for now (when I last checked), and Lockheed are running the production lines for stock that they will update later.
So imo pause, pivot to another perhaps 24 or 36 latest Eurofighters, and go from there.
Yes, but this is all exceptionally long term and Trump is in real time
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Reflecting on this, we need the USA to not undermine F35s. IMO they won't, as there are 600 ordered for Europe with prospects for hundreds more; never mind those for elsewhere.
My suggestion is that for our defence expenditure growth we will order further Eurofighters, for which there is a still running assembly line in Lancashire, and it is good economically since we have a nearly 40% share in it. These are more applicable to deploying forces to mainland Europe than F35s.
My suggestion for what is likely with F35s is that we will maintain the current trend. We have 48 on order, and 26 indicated but not afaik committed. If the USA cripples the programme it is a cost of many 10s of billions to them. And their delivery of the next big update is running so slowly that the USAF has refused to order more for now (when I last checked), and Lockheed are running the production lines for stock that they will update later.
So imo pause, pivot to another perhaps 24 or 36 latest Eurofighters, and go from there.
Trump will likely send these "European" F35s to India first.
Is there a touch of the de Gaulle problem with Zelensky for the US/UK? He’s the popular leader of an invaded country we are allied with against a terrible aggressor.
De Gaulle pissed off everyone on the allied side partly because he wanted more, partly he was in a shitty position as was France and partly to make it clear he spoke for France independently.
Now there are differences, I hate to compare Zelensky to de Gaulle in many ways as I think Z is a very brave chap who is doing his best under a terrible situation it could lessons be learnt in America and Europe with how the allies balanced de Gaulle being lerceoved to be being difficult and the real life needs of France/Ukraine?
Interesting numbers from @ForecasterEnten on handling of Russia-Ukraine. Trump is at 2+ while Biden was at -22.
Ukraine wasn't served well by Biden and the West. I don't believe Trump will remain at 2 after a very short while. I am not sure what lens you see Trump through.
The EU is spending more money on Russian fossil fuels than on financial aid to Ukraine, a report marking the third anniversary of the invasion has found.
EU member states bought €21.9bn (£18.1bn) of Russian oil and gas in the third year of the war, according to estimates from the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (Crea), despite the efforts under way to kick the continent’s addiction to the fuels that fund Vladimir Putin’s war chest.
The amount is one-sixth greater than the €18.7bn the EU allocated to Ukraine in financial aid in 2024, according to a tracker from the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW Kiel).
Is there a touch of the de Gaulle problem with Zelensky for the US/UK? He’s the popular leader of an invaded country we are allied with against a terrible aggressor.
De Gaulle pissed off everyone on the allied side partly because he wanted more, partly he was in a shitty position as was France and partly to make it clear he spoke for France independently.
Now there are differences, I hate to compare Zelensky to de Gaulle in many ways as I think Z is a very brave chap who is doing his best under a terrible situation it could lessons be learnt in America and Europe with how the allies balanced de Gaulle being lerceoved to be being difficult and the real life needs of France/Ukraine?
Zelensky's provocative stance is clearly, partly, an attempt to boost his country's profile and influence between other powers, as you say there.
He doesn't seem to understand how to handle Trump, though. "Peace is a very, very long way away", is the just the sort of thing that riles him, and his advisers need to move him on quick.
The EU is spending more money on Russian fossil fuels than on financial aid to Ukraine, a report marking the third anniversary of the invasion has found.
EU member states bought €21.9bn (£18.1bn) of Russian oil and gas in the third year of the war, according to estimates from the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (Crea), despite the efforts under way to kick the continent’s addiction to the fuels that fund Vladimir Putin’s war chest.
The amount is one-sixth greater than the €18.7bn the EU allocated to Ukraine in financial aid in 2024, according to a tracker from the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW Kiel).
He does know where a hefty proportion of that oil and gas is going to, doesn’t he? Orban’s Hungary. Oh and Fico’s Slovakia.
Is there a touch of the de Gaulle problem with Zelensky for the US/UK? He’s the popular leader of an invaded country we are allied with against a terrible aggressor.
De Gaulle pissed off everyone on the allied side partly because he wanted more, partly he was in a shitty position as was France and partly to make it clear he spoke for France independently.
Now there are differences, I hate to compare Zelensky to de Gaulle in many ways as I think Z is a very brave chap who is doing his best under a terrible situation it could lessons be learnt in America and Europe with how the allies balanced de Gaulle being lerceoved to be being difficult and the real life needs of France/Ukraine?
Zelensky's provocative stance is clearly, partly, an attempt to boost his country's profile and influence between other powers, as you say there.
He doesn't seem to understand how to handle Trump, though. "Peace is a very, very long way away", is the just the sort of thing that riles him, and his advisers need to move him on quick.
It’ll almost be a blessed release when we can all just ignore Trump and not worry about offending him any more than he worries about offending others. Life will be easier once they have fully cut ties.
As others have pointed out this is an administration that cries about being disrespected while repeatedly calling the PM of Canada Governor Trudeau.
Is there a touch of the de Gaulle problem with Zelensky for the US/UK? He’s the popular leader of an invaded country we are allied with against a terrible aggressor.
De Gaulle pissed off everyone on the allied side partly because he wanted more, partly he was in a shitty position as was France and partly to make it clear he spoke for France independently.
Now there are differences, I hate to compare Zelensky to de Gaulle in many ways as I think Z is a very brave chap who is doing his best under a terrible situation it could lessons be learnt in America and Europe with how the allies balanced de Gaulle being lerceoved to be being difficult and the real life needs of France/Ukraine?
Zelensky's provocative stance is clearly, partly, an attempt to boost his country's profile and influence between other powers, as you say there.
He doesn't seem to understand how to handle Trump, though. "Peace is a very, very long way away", is the just the sort of thing that riles him, and his advisers need to move him on quick.
There is no handling of Trump. He will take offence, just because he can.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Sure, but that doesn't make them useless.
Easier to fly from Poland to Ukraine than overfly turkey
Is there a touch of the de Gaulle problem with Zelensky for the US/UK? He’s the popular leader of an invaded country we are allied with against a terrible aggressor.
De Gaulle pissed off everyone on the allied side partly because he wanted more, partly he was in a shitty position as was France and partly to make it clear he spoke for France independently.
Now there are differences, I hate to compare Zelensky to de Gaulle in many ways as I think Z is a very brave chap who is doing his best under a terrible situation it could lessons be learnt in America and Europe with how the allies balanced de Gaulle being lerceoved to be being difficult and the real life needs of France/Ukraine?
Zelensky's provocative stance is clearly, partly, an attempt to boost his country's profile and influence between other powers, as you say there.
He doesn't seem to understand how to handle Trump, though. "Peace is a very, very long way away", is the just the sort of thing that riles him, and his advisers need to move him on quick.
There is no handling of Trump. He will take offence, just because he can.
On the other hand, we don't necessarily need F35 equivalent planes: the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Dassault Mirage, and the Saab Grippen are all perfectly capable 4.5 Gen fighters.
None of which can fly off our carriers
Sure, but that doesn't make them useless.
Gripen uses an American engine built under license. That’s been used to block sales, before.
Nobody seems to have noticed that the immigration figures for 2024 are significantly lower than 2023? This bodes well.
They're not instead of, they're on top of.
Net immigration needs to go negative for it to have a positive political effect.
I don't think Horse was suggesting that the net was a negative just the net figure is lower than last year.
Farage was banging on about net migration. There are advantages and disadvantages depending on who is arriving and leaving. Farage just claims the easy win .
Of course Farage could have a massive impact by adopting simple Trumpian performative cruelty.
Shame. I am not religious but he seemed like a decent man - at least compared to his predecessors - and was very much trying to modernise the Church in a meaningful way. I saw an article a few days ago that said he had stuffed the Conclave with like minded Cardinals so hopefully his successor will be of a similar ilk.
Seems Trump is lashing out at Zelenskyy saying he won't put up with him any longer
My real fear is he turns against Starmer and Macron leaving everyone in a perilous military position
Goodness knows what comes next
Macron gets replaced by LePen shortly and Starmer by Nige. The peril increases substantially.
The test will be for traditional conservative parties.
IF she has a choice between supporting a minority Reform Government led by Farage and a continuing minority Labour Government led by Starmer, which way would Kemi Badenoch jump?
I can't now rule out the possibility of a minority Labour Government supported by both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats as the outcome of the next GE.
Yes, I’d now say that supporting Labour, in that situation, would be the patriotic thing to do.
On domestic policy Badenoch would be with Reform, on foreign policy with Labour, she would give neither Farage nor Starmer C +S
If correct, according to Sky, Zelensky has said that the end of the war is a long way off. Right or wrong, Trump is not happy . In all seriousness, I think in this case Trump has a point here. Tha plain truth is we all need US support right now and for a good few years. Why give Trump an excuse to pull the plug?
We won't get it. Trump just wants an excuse to pull the plug on US aid for Zelensky so he can focus on his trade wars with Mexico, Canada, China and the EU and funding more border agents to stop and deport immigrants and slashing the Federal government and EDI which is his main focus
If so the w/e was a waste of time. And God help Ukraine .
The rest of NATO just needs to increase defence spending and fill the gap
Nonsense. The problem is that is impossible within a realistic timescale.
“Will try” is preferable always to “can’t do.”
There's a bunch of people who fall for the Silver Bullet Fallacy: it it can't solve all our problems in one go, it's not worth doing.
Is there a touch of the de Gaulle problem with Zelensky for the US/UK? He’s the popular leader of an invaded country we are allied with against a terrible aggressor.
De Gaulle pissed off everyone on the allied side partly because he wanted more, partly he was in a shitty position as was France and partly to make it clear he spoke for France independently.
Now there are differences, I hate to compare Zelensky to de Gaulle in many ways as I think Z is a very brave chap who is doing his best under a terrible situation it could lessons be learnt in America and Europe with how the allies balanced de Gaulle being lerceoved to be being difficult and the real life needs of France/Ukraine?
Zelensky's provocative stance is clearly, partly, an attempt to boost his country's profile and influence between other powers, as you say there.
He doesn't seem to understand how to handle Trump, though. "Peace is a very, very long way away", is the just the sort of thing that riles him, and his advisers need to move him on quick.
There is no handling of Trump. He will take offence, just because he can.
It would be for the best for European leaders to keep well away from Trump and instead communicate with Rubbio.
Sen Tuberville: "Zelenskyy's gonna play hardball, but you know what? He's not even in the game. It's gonna be Putin and President Trump and the people on our side that will end up making this decision for the future of Ukraine."
Is there a touch of the de Gaulle problem with Zelensky for the US/UK? He’s the popular leader of an invaded country we are allied with against a terrible aggressor.
De Gaulle pissed off everyone on the allied side partly because he wanted more, partly he was in a shitty position as was France and partly to make it clear he spoke for France independently.
Now there are differences, I hate to compare Zelensky to de Gaulle in many ways as I think Z is a very brave chap who is doing his best under a terrible situation it could lessons be learnt in America and Europe with how the allies balanced de Gaulle being lerceoved to be being difficult and the real life needs of France/Ukraine?
Zelensky's provocative stance is clearly, partly, an attempt to boost his country's profile and influence between other powers, as you say there.
He doesn't seem to understand how to handle Trump, though. "Peace is a very, very long way away", is the just the sort of thing that riles him, and his advisers need to move him on quick.
There is no handling of Trump. He will take offence, just because he can.
It would be for the best for European leaders to keep well away from Trump and instead communicate with Rubbio.
Instead its like moths and flames.
Starmer seems to have managed what none of them can, and I don't think it's just because he prefers Britain.
So clearly, at least something can be achieved, in relating.
Comments
The contortions people are going through to make this Zelensky's fault are ridiculous. Of course it's a long way to go. We would be months away from a formal agreement in normal circumstances.
What doesn't take long is subjugation.
Pope had 2 episodes of respiratory failure
Not good news for him
We are currently transfixed, to a ludicrous degree, in the dealings of one foreign country with two other foreign countries. The attention is vastly disproportionate given everything else that's happening in the world, and things that are happening in the UK.
Also Trump meeting right now considering ending military aid to Ukraine !!!!
Until now...
I agree that there is very short term stuff (10 weeks!), medium term (1-10 years), and the long-term things - eg the F35 is due to be in service until the 2070s or 2080s. The F-16s that Ukraine is getting for the next generation of their air force go back to 1974 - 50 years. 50 years hence is 2075.
The USA provides the overarching large scale defence infrastructure, but there are areas where Europe is equal or ahead (eg Artillery, which is for now contrast with MLRS where Europe is behind). That's similar afaics across the board.
We need to find balances on all of that.
Also, the US has real problems building things to time and budget, and their kit costs significantly more than European Kit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2027_French_presidential_election
Everything is built out of tiny steps.
Unfortunately he's rather stupidly making nus do the former, and not the latter.
My understanding is much the Typhoon's avionics are based around 1980s-era Motorola/Freescale 68020 microprocessors. The only source for those now is Rochester Electronics in the US which, it's rumoured, purchased the rights to that chip from Freescale and put it back into production at least in part to meet demand from Typhoon operators.
Interesting numbers from @ForecasterEnten on handling of Russia-Ukraine. Trump is at 2+ while Biden was at -22.
'If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas'
Oh wait, that was a week before their meeting.
Maybe this has nothing to do with the meeting and it’s something else.
https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1896238397569790279
May he rest in peace and commisserations to all Catholics
The latest statement from Zelensky just now is noticeably different in tone, replying to Trump. I wonder if his advisers and Mandelson are having a word in his ear to try and tone down the more provocative stances from hom for Trump, as soon as possible.
Funniest thing about Friday's White House meltdown was Trump and Vance berating Zelenskyy for being "disrespectful", when Trump continually refers to Canada's PM as "Governor Trudeau".
This is far more complex than just increasing defence spending which will take years to address the crisis that we are seeing today
Your last is unbelievably still open to question, as much as I would like it to be true
Before that I would have thought it inconceivable, the parties are too culturally opposed to each other.
But in this brave new world? Hmm. I am starting to wonder….
They are happy with him at the moment, until they are not.
What are the bods in the CIA thinking of this volte face on Russia? Surely they know it’s idiotic and also have the dirt on Trump and Musk to force some sort of climb down?
Or have the CIA just changed beyond all recognition too?
The US is not giving Ukraine any more support until January 2029 at the earliest so it is either the rest of NATO increase defence spending or Zelensky sues for peace on Putin and Trump's terms
Unfortunately, the “patriotism” of several radical right parties seems to be about attacking enemies at home, whilst fawning over enemies abroad.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-pope-has-had-two-episodes-of-acute-respiratory-failure-vatican-says-13320852
It's also the sort of emphasis that Mandelson would encourage him to start with.
My suggestion is that for our defence expenditure growth we will order further Eurofighters, for which there is a still running assembly line in Lancashire, and it is good economically since we have a nearly 40% share in it. These are more applicable to deploying forces to mainland Europe than F35s.
My suggestion for what is likely with F35s is that we will maintain the current trend. We have 48 on order, and 26 indicated but not afaik committed. If the USA cripples the programme it is a cost of many 10s of billions to them. And their delivery of the next big update is running so slowly that the USAF has refused to order more for now (when I last checked), and Lockheed are running the production lines for stock that they will update later.
So imo pause, pivot to another perhaps 24 or 36 latest Eurofighters, and go from there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4rR-OsTNCg
Or Russia.
A typically over-confident error
De Gaulle pissed off everyone on the allied side partly because he wanted more, partly he was in a shitty position as was France and partly to make it clear he spoke for France independently.
Now there are differences, I hate to compare Zelensky to de Gaulle in many ways as I think Z is a very brave chap who is doing his best under a terrible situation it could lessons be learnt in America and Europe with how the allies balanced de Gaulle being lerceoved to be being difficult and the real life needs of France/Ukraine?
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/114099924838350231
Europe has spent more money buying Russian Oil and Gas than they have spent on defending Ukraine —BY FAR!
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more-russian-oil-gas-than-financial-aid-ukraine-report
The EU is spending more money on Russian fossil fuels than on financial aid to Ukraine, a report marking the third anniversary of the invasion has found.
EU member states bought €21.9bn (£18.1bn) of Russian oil and gas in the third year of the war, according to estimates from the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (Crea), despite the efforts under way to kick the continent’s addiction to the fuels that fund Vladimir Putin’s war chest.
The amount is one-sixth greater than the €18.7bn the EU allocated to Ukraine in financial aid in 2024, according to a tracker from the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW Kiel).
He doesn't seem to understand how to handle Trump, though. "Peace is a very, very long way away", is the just the sort of thing that riles him, and his advisers need to move him on quick.
https://www.eunews.it/en/2024/10/15/hungary-to-buy-even-more-gas-from-russia-in-2025/
Net immigration needs to go negative for it to have a positive political effect.
As others have pointed out this is an administration that cries about being disrespected while repeatedly calling the PM of Canada Governor Trudeau.
Look at Starmer.
Amen
Farage was banging on about net migration. There are advantages and disadvantages depending on who is arriving and leaving. Farage just claims the easy win .
Of course Farage could have a massive impact by adopting simple Trumpian performative cruelty.
Hope he's enjoying heaven.
Instead its like moths and flames.
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0102691/
Sen Tuberville: "Zelenskyy's gonna play hardball, but you know what? He's not even in the game. It's gonna be Putin and President Trump and the people on our side that will end up making this decision for the future of Ukraine."
So clearly, at least something can be achieved, in relating.
Or are they still waiting for Trump to make a decision ?
It really isn't conducive to business for these things to be decided at such short notice and changeable on an unstable whim.