About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.
What on earth is a 'sidewalk diner'?
Poshing up the practise of putting tables outside eateries.
Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?
This is on a different scale.
Is it? The National Front in the 70s were pretty awful. I vaguely recall someone dying in a NF riot in London. When I was at Uni I lived above the UMIST union, even though I was at Manchester. A hundred odd NF ran riot through the Union. They totally destroyed it. The police didn't turn up until it was all over. The story was they just couldn't respond being so outnumbered.
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
"I love rumours! Facts can be so misleading, but rumours, true or false, are often revealing."
Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?
This is on a different scale.
So far it doesn't seem to have on 2010 riots level, for a couple of days that got really out of hand and authorities had totally lost control, although mainly in London, there were other major cities that were only just hanging on at times.
We could do with some classic British summertime rain before it escalates further.
But it’s much much worse than the plasma screen riots, in one way, because this is rioting BETWEEN two sides, with major racial/sectarian elements
The plasma screen riots simply needed the coppers to get a grip - and they did, It was mindless stupidity and - belatedly - it was crushed, Sadly this is of a different level of seriousness as it has such potential for escalation, and now a Rubicon has been crossed
The 2010 riots felt surreal; this feels darkly ominous
About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.
The best thing these "counter demonstrators" can do is stay at home and give the police less needless work to do. I dare say they find turning out to provoke the idiots to be fun and thrilling, but it isn't helping anyone.
The two stranded American astronauts make me think that NASA officials should read Heinlein's short story, "Delilah and the Space-Rigger", especially the very end.
Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?
This is on a different scale.
Is it? The National Front in the 70s were pretty awful. I vaguely recall someone dying in a NF riot in London. When I was at Uni I lived above the UMIST union, even though I was at Manchester. A hundred odd NF ran riot through the Union. They totally destroyed it. The police didn't turn up until it was all over. The story was they just couldn't respond being so outnumbered.
The 70s was pretty horrible for street violence.
Back in the early 1990s, Derek Beackon (sp?) got elected onto Tower Hamlets council for the BNP. The far-right held a protest on the Isle of Dogs, and I was caught on a D6 bus behind the protest's slow procession. There were loads of police about, and police vans and cars, and about six protestors walking along the road in front of us, surrounded by a curtain of coppers.
As an aside, there were posters in the area that said: "Kill the Nazi scum!"; which I thought was rather taking Nazi ideas to heart - kill the enemy...
Man hosting website he knew was filled with far-right terrorism material sentenced to an 11 year extended sentence.
Colin McNeil (31/08/1977) received an 11 year extended sentence, comprising of 7 years in custody and 4 years on extended licence. He will also be subject to a terrorist notification order for 30 years.
McNeil of Beeston Road, Leeds, provided a service, in the form of an online website, that facilitated others to obtain terrorist publications and by doing so committed four dissemination offences contrary to Section 2(2)(d) Terrorism Act 2006.
The website was deliberately, and very publicly, unmoderated with McNeil admitting in a police interview that he knew the site had been ‘swamped’ by material supporting extreme right-wing ideologies.
When he became aware that terrorist publications were being distributed on the website, he continued to play an active role in its administration. McNeil was first arrested on the 23 March 2022 following an investigation by Counter Terrorism Policing North East. https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/leeds-man-sentenced-for-hosting-terrorist-website/
There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
An eyewitness report in the link above. A group of 'English lads' were on one side of the street throwing bricks, then a group of 'Muslim lads' appeared down the street. One person was hit on the head with a hammer, who you can see in the background of the video. He appears to be 'up' (i.e. not dead or unconscious) by the end of the video.
So while it's entirely wrong to say there are Muslims going round stabbing 'English' on the streets, as some people are saying on Twitter, today hasn't exactly been a day of racial harmony, either.
I fear things will escalate after nightfall.
Turns out it was a bit premature to say “Starmer and Cooper have handled this really well”
The police in Stoke issued a statement saying:
“We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media."
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment,”
So one of Leon's first acts after returning from his ban is to trot out false information from dodgy sources on twitter and use it to proclaim a race war.
Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?
This is on a different scale.
So far it doesn't seem to have on 2010 riots level, for a couple of days that got really out of hand and authorities had totally lost control, although mainly in London, there were other major cities that were only just hanging on at times.
We could do with some classic British summertime rain before it escalates further.
But it’s much much worse than the plasma screen riots, in one way, because this is rioting BETWEEN two sides, with major racial/sectarian elements
The plasma screen riots simply needed the coppers to get a grip - and they did, It was mindless stupidity and - belatedly - it was crushed, Sadly this is of a different level of seriousness as it has such potential for escalation, and now a Rubicon has been crossed
The 2010 riots felt surreal; this feels darkly ominous
2011 riots. Get your years right!
Apols., I took my cue from the prior comment
I’m sure you are right
I may not remember the exact year but I remember the experience. Truly hallucinatory. I recall using social media to see how close the riots were getting to my flat on the wild Primrose Hill borders. At one point they came up Parkway and I thought, whoah. This is it, defend my home
But I had no tools so I stood on my balcony armed with… a bottle of Gran Reserva Rioja. What was I gonna do with it? Calm the rioters down with its notes of elegant leather and dark chocolate?
I actually saw a rioter - just one - like the crest of wave - he reached the top of Parkway, glanced up at me: this mad dude with a wine bottle on a balcony. He shrugged, and went back down the street. And that was it
There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
An eyewitness report in the link above. A group of 'English lads' were on one side of the street throwing bricks, then a group of 'Muslim lads' appeared down the street. One person was hit on the head with a hammer, who you can see in the background of the video. He appears to be 'up' (i.e. not dead or unconscious) by the end of the video.
So while it's entirely wrong to say there are Muslims going round stabbing 'English' on the streets, as some people are saying on Twitter, today hasn't exactly been a day of racial harmony, either.
I fear things will escalate after nightfall.
Turns out it was a bit premature to say “Starmer and Cooper have handled this really well”
The police in Stoke issued a statement saying:
“We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media."
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment,”
So one of Leon's first acts after returning from his ban is to trot out false information from dodgy sources on twitter and use it to proclaim a race war.
Turns out it was probably hammers or maybe axes, not knives. My apologies to the site
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
"I love rumours! Facts can be so misleading, but rumours, true or false, are often revealing."
Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?
This is on a different scale.
It’s very hard to tell from afar. You really do lose touch of things even if, when I lived in London, I wouldn’t have first hand experience of a race riot.
Another example, I cannot understand at all why a Jenrick appears to be front-runner to take over the Conservatives. From this distance he appears to be electoral kryptonite.
Yep. An all too obvious dud. In the dismal tradition of IDS and Truss.
The Tory problem is that the right-wing factionalists in the parliamentary party usually have just enough numbers to slip their candidate - however unsuitable - into the final two on which the members' vote.
The saving grace this time is that the process may be long enough for the inadequacies of Jenrick to become obvious. But who knows?
The two stranded American astronauts make me think that NASA officials should read Heinlein's short story, "Delilah and the Space-Rigger", especially the very end.
So in theory, every capsule can dock to each other and the ISS.
Awesome, right?
Except that Starliner doesn’t implant both active and passive modes. To save about 20lg in weight.
So if Starliner disconnects from the station, and the thrusters fail, a Dragon capsule can’t directly dock with them to rescue the occupants.
They could die in sight of the station. Very fucking slowly.
Not entirely sure about your sense of humour.
Apollo 13 is a great film but my favourite scene is when the engineers work out how to get the CO2 scrubbers to work using what is on board the spacecraft including a sock.
The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.
What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.
It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.
There are also plenty of respectable Hamas supporters.
But the point is that if the liberal elite perceive all this as 'far right terrorism', such that they need to be kicked in to line, and hate speech laws etc boosted to bring the population in to check, then it will probably fail this time around because people have got so fed up with immigration (as exemplified by support for deportations) also looking at global trends - the 'far right' is now mainstream in Europe, they would be attempting to ban ideas that are supported by the Italian government, and possibly also the next French and US president.
The point is that you can deal with 'far right criminal thuggery', but you also need to isolate it by dealing with wider public concerns about immigration and integration. And the latter is what I suspect the Labour government will avoid doing.
Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?
This is on a different scale.
So far it doesn't seem to have on 2010 riots level, for a couple of days that got really out of hand and authorities had totally lost control, although mainly in London, there were other major cities that were only just hanging on at times.
We could do with some classic British summertime rain before it escalates further.
But it’s much much worse than the plasma screen riots, in one way, because this is rioting BETWEEN two sides, with major racial/sectarian elements
The plasma screen riots simply needed the coppers to get a grip - and they did, It was mindless stupidity and - belatedly - it was crushed, Sadly this is of a different level of seriousness as it has such potential for escalation, and now a Rubicon has been crossed
The 2010 riots felt surreal; this feels darkly ominous
2011 riots. Get your years right!
Apols., I took my cue from the prior comment
I’m sure you are right
I may not remember the exact year but I remember the experience. Truly hallucinatory. I recall using social media to see how close the riots were getting to my flat on the wild Primrose Hill borders. At one point they came up Parkway and I thought, whoah. This is it, defend my home
But I had no tools so I stood on my balcony armed with… a bottle of Gran Reserva Rioja. What was I gonna do with it? Calm the rioters down with its notes of elegant leather and dark chocolate?
I actually saw a rioter - just one - like the crest of wave - he reached the top of Parkway, glanced up at me: this mad dude with a wine bottle on a balcony. He shrugged, and went back down the street. And that was it
I was living in Ealing at the time and managed to sleep through the night of the riot.
It was only listening to Today the morning after that I realised anything had happened, so I went for a walk up the Broadway to assess the damage. I recall the local branch of Foxton's had been smashed to pieces, while the neighbouring charity shop was untouched. Evidence of some discrimination, I thought.
About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.
The best thing these "counter demonstrators" can do is stay at home and give the police less needless work to do. I dare say they find turning out to provoke the idiots to be fun and thrilling, but it isn't helping anyone.
Or the police could put their feet up and let the two sides kick seven shades of shite out of each other.
A strange one. This could be Freemen on the Land types.
A cultish group believed they could appoint themselves as legal authorities, and kidnapped the staff of a Coroners Court when they were aiming to capture the Coroner and put him on trial.
An "anti-establishment cult" attempted to kidnap a coroner and subject him to "corporal punishment", a court heard.
Mark Christopher, 58, Matthew Martin, 47, Shiza Harper, 45, and Sean Harper, 38, wanted to "shut down" Essex Coroner's Court in April 2023, it was alleged.
They stormed into the building in Chelmsford with handcuffs as they worked to "arrest, detain and take" senior coroner Lincoln Brookes, a prosecutor said.
About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.
"I know this definitely happened cos some random bloke/woman/bot posted a video on Twitter!!!" Soon we'll be reporting as fact the unsubstantiated claims of Sharon on the local Facebook group, who got the 'facts' from her sister's mate whose kids go to the same school as somebody whose cousin saw it happen. Really.
The problem is, in this day and age
a) nobody is going to wait until tomorrow's papers publish a well-researched account of all the facts with all sources checked and verified.
b) people don't trust the mainstream media to not have an agenda now, either. Look at how they reported 'loud noises' heard at Trump's rally even when it was incredibly clear from multiple videos that it was an assassination attempt.
This means we have to make do with what we have, which is often chaotic and unverified, with pieces of the story emerging from multiple places. For example today I've seen angry white hooligan types charging coppers with wheelie bins, I've also seen 'Muslim' types wandering the streets with weapons and supposedly attacking people with knives. I've seen video of the police telling Muslim men to go back and store their weapons in the mosque. And that awful video of a group of white men in Manchester appearing to surround that one black man until the police step in.
Is everything I've seen today verified? Not really. But it's all viewable, now, with a couple of clicks.
Which means you have to make up your own mind. Because you can't wait for the mainstream media to make it up for you. I take everything I see on social media with a pinch of salt, but it looks a lot like race riots, with bad actors on both sides. In all of this, nuance will be lost. For example, the Muslim men being asked to put their weapons back in the mosque may well be out today defending their religious centre from far right thugs who've travelled miles to torch it to the ground - with little to no faith in police protection. But others will be out spinning it on social media as armed Muslims on the streets looking for trouble.
In a live-streamed, social media world where everyone has a camera, and pretty much everyone has an agenda, too, the idea that you can hope for 'truth' is for the birds. Look at the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, a chaotic scene where you had far right militias on one side and BLM types rioting on the others. It took months to determine what happened there, and there was a lot of camera footage to help decide, eventually, that the kid had acted in self defence (whether he should have been out that night with a militia is another question).
What's really depressing is that people aren't interested in trying to figure out what happened, factually speaking. They just want to use whatever media is out there to ramp up their agenda. The mainstream media is as guilty of that as anyone else these days.
There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
An eyewitness report in the link above. A group of 'English lads' were on one side of the street throwing bricks, then a group of 'Muslim lads' appeared down the street. One person was hit on the head with a hammer, who you can see in the background of the video. He appears to be 'up' (i.e. not dead or unconscious) by the end of the video.
So while it's entirely wrong to say there are Muslims going round stabbing 'English' on the streets, as some people are saying on Twitter, today hasn't exactly been a day of racial harmony, either.
I fear things will escalate after nightfall.
Turns out it was a bit premature to say “Starmer and Cooper have handled this really well”
The police in Stoke issued a statement saying:
“We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media."
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment,”
So one of Leon's first acts after returning from his ban is to trot out false information from dodgy sources on twitter and use it to proclaim a race war.
Turns out it was probably hammers or maybe axes, not knives. My apologies to the site
What you should be apologising for is doing what the far right wants and ramping these 'protests' up into some kind of race war with two different sides. The various far right groupings on the internet are encouraging hardcore supporters to bus around northern towns and cause violence. Just watch them and you can see that there are hardly any placards with demands and there's no evidence that large numbers outside of their hardcore group is joining in. This is criminal damage by a load of thugs not some kind of societal breakdown.
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
Drastic Effects, on PB?
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
"I know this definitely happened cos some random bloke/woman/bot posted a video on Twitter!!!" Soon we'll be reporting as fact the unsubstantiated claims of Sharon on the local Facebook group, who got the 'facts' from her sister's mate whose kids go to the same school as somebody whose cousin saw it happen. Really.
The problem is, in this day and age
a) nobody is going to wait until tomorrow's papers publish a well-researched account of all the facts with all sources checked and verified.
b) people don't trust the mainstream media to not have an agenda now, either. Look at how they reported 'loud noises' heard at Trump's rally even when it was incredibly clear from multiple videos that it was an assassination attempt.
This means we have to make do with what we have, which is often chaotic and unverified, with pieces of the story emerging from multiple places. For example today I've seen angry white hooligan types charging coppers with wheelie bins, I've also seen 'Muslim' types wandering the streets with weapons and supposedly attacking people with knives. I've seen video of the police telling Muslim men to go back and store their weapons in the mosque. And that awful video of a group of white men in Manchester appearing to surround that one black man until the police step in.
Is everything I've seen today verified? Not really. But it's all viewable, now, with a couple of clicks.
Which means you have to make up your own mind. Because you can't wait for the mainstream media to make it up for you. I take everything I see on social media with a pinch of salt, but it looks a lot like race riots, with bad actors on both sides. In all of this, nuance will be lost. For example, the Muslim men being asked to put their weapons back in the mosque may well be out today defending their religious centre from far right thugs who've travelled miles to torch it to the ground - with little to no faith in police protection. But others will be out spinning it on social media as armed Muslims on the streets looking for trouble.
In a live-streamed, social media world where everyone has a camera, and pretty much everyone has an agenda, too, the idea that you can hope for 'truth' is for the birds. Look at the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, a chaotic scene where you had far right militias on one side and BLM types rioting on the others. It took months to determine what happened there, and there was a lot of camera footage to help decide, eventually, that the kid had acted in self defence (whether he should have been out that night with a militia is another question).
What's really depressing is that people aren't interested in trying to figure out what happened, factually speaking. They just want to use whatever media is out there to ramp up their agenda. The mainstream media is as guilty of that as anyone else these days.
Yep. i saw this with my own eyes at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Square. I was there with my Press Card alongside other journalists
We all witnessed the same thing, thugs from the crowd hunting down more gammony or EDL-y white people and beating the shit out of them. And nearly killing one or two
I thought, Well my God this will be all over the papers and TV tomorrow. Racial attacks that come close to lynchings
Not a peep. Nothing from the Beeb or ITV or Sky or any of the papers, and I know they were there because I chatted with them
In late middle age I belatedly realised: the media will completely lie when it suits their agenda or when a story doesn’t fit the narrative. Weirdly, it gave me sympathy for left wingers who were - in my eyes - always whining about a biased media. I finally realised they had and have a very valid point
For that and many other reasons I am now ten times more skeptical about MSM news. Which means you have to dig out the truth yourself, and it is hard, and getting harder
There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
An eyewitness report in the link above. A group of 'English lads' were on one side of the street throwing bricks, then a group of 'Muslim lads' appeared down the street. One person was hit on the head with a hammer, who you can see in the background of the video. He appears to be 'up' (i.e. not dead or unconscious) by the end of the video.
So while it's entirely wrong to say there are Muslims going round stabbing 'English' on the streets, as some people are saying on Twitter, today hasn't exactly been a day of racial harmony, either.
I fear things will escalate after nightfall.
Turns out it was a bit premature to say “Starmer and Cooper have handled this really well”
The police in Stoke issued a statement saying:
“We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media."
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment,”
So one of Leon's first acts after returning from his ban is to trot out false information from dodgy sources on twitter and use it to proclaim a race war.
Turns out it was probably hammers or maybe axes, not knives. My apologies to the site
What you should be apologising for is doing what the far right wants and ramping these 'protests' up into some kind of race war with two different sides. The various far right groupings on the internet are encouraging hardcore supporters to bus around northern towns and cause violence. Just watch them and you can see that there are hardly any placards with demands and there's no evidence that large numbers outside of their hardcore group is joining in. This is criminal damage by a load of thugs not some kind of societal breakdown.
You’ve not noticed the Muslim thugs tooled up with swords, machetes and staves? Just the white thugs?
I mean, the white thugs are definitely there, I can see them. Fat ugly bastards who need six months of Ozempic and a detox. But this is two sides going at it, and both sides are highly aggressive and angry
The two stranded American astronauts make me think that NASA officials should read Heinlein's short story, "Delilah and the Space-Rigger", especially the very end.
So in theory, every capsule can dock to each other and the ISS.
Awesome, right?
Except that Starliner doesn’t implant both active and passive modes. To save about 20lg in weight.
So if Starliner disconnects from the station, and the thrusters fail, a Dragon capsule can’t directly dock with them to rescue the occupants.
They could die in sight of the station. Very fucking slowly.
Not entirely sure about your sense of humour.
Apollo 13 is a great film but my favourite scene is when the engineers work out how to get the CO2 scrubbers to work using what is on board the spacecraft including a sock.
I started early and today I have bet £50 on Kamala Harris for POTUS at 11/10 from one of Ladbrokes and Coral. If she wins my returns will be £105, a profit of £55. If she loses my returns will be 0, a loss will be £50
It's too early and I should have waited until the Veep pick. But it was a nice warm Saturday and I thought: "why not". We will find out in 94 days...
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
Drastic Effects, on PB?
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
Oh and I also posted an eyewitness report from London Bridge station warning of a large police presence and large numbers of idiots chanting "we are millwall, no one likes us, we dont care" heading towards Borough and warning to avoid the area.
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
Drastic Effects, on PB?
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous comment.
I think when these f*ckers get into Court in the morning, they'll all be crying that it was a moment of madness and they didn't mean it.
If we are having prompt weekend trials the overtime for the prosecutors will be worth it.
A few of your friends locked up for a few months or a couple of years should have an impact, just as I hope it does for Roger Hallam and his fellows.
I don't think disruptive protests like JSO and Tractors round Westminster can really be compared to the kind of violence we are seeing now.
The JSO conspirators were (imo) rightly sent to jail. But for entirely different reasons to why these people also belong there.
In some ways JSO gluing themselves to motorway gantries etc are worse. Ask someone stuck in an Ambulance or who missed their cancer appointment as a result.
"Matt Goodwin @GoodwinMJ Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects. 4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024 55K Views"
"Matt Goodwin @GoodwinMJ Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects. 4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024 55K Views"
What this is really reminding me of is the wave of street riots / violence that swept the UK in the 80s. Just groups of lads realising that if they went out en masse they could do whatever they wanted for a night, feel powerful & rob whoever & whatever they wanted. The initial disturbance provided a Schelling point for everyone else to centre on.
No real reason, no real justification needed. Just the desire to feel powerful for once in their lives.
I remember the news listing off the places where there had been riots / violence the night before & the list including Knutsford. Knutsford! Wealthiest town in Cheshire probably.
"I know this definitely happened cos some random bloke/woman/bot posted a video on Twitter!!!" Soon we'll be reporting as fact the unsubstantiated claims of Sharon on the local Facebook group, who got the 'facts' from her sister's mate whose kids go to the same school as somebody whose cousin saw it happen. Really.
The problem is, in this day and age
a) nobody is going to wait until tomorrow's papers publish a well-researched account of all the facts with all sources checked and verified.
b) people don't trust the mainstream media to not have an agenda now, either. Look at how they reported 'loud noises' heard at Trump's rally even when it was incredibly clear from multiple videos that it was an assassination attempt.
This means we have to make do with what we have, which is often chaotic and unverified, with pieces of the story emerging from multiple places. For example today I've seen angry white hooligan types charging coppers with wheelie bins, I've also seen 'Muslim' types wandering the streets with weapons and supposedly attacking people with knives. I've seen video of the police telling Muslim men to go back and store their weapons in the mosque. And that awful video of a group of white men in Manchester appearing to surround that one black man until the police step in.
Is everything I've seen today verified? Not really. But it's all viewable, now, with a couple of clicks.
Which means you have to make up your own mind. Because you can't wait for the mainstream media to make it up for you. I take everything I see on social media with a pinch of salt, but it looks a lot like race riots, with bad actors on both sides. In all of this, nuance will be lost. For example, the Muslim men being asked to put their weapons back in the mosque may well be out today defending their religious centre from far right thugs who've travelled miles to torch it to the ground - with little to no faith in police protection. But others will be out spinning it on social media as armed Muslims on the streets looking for trouble.
In a live-streamed, social media world where everyone has a camera, and pretty much everyone has an agenda, too, the idea that you can hope for 'truth' is for the birds. Look at the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, a chaotic scene where you had far right militias on one side and BLM types rioting on the others. It took months to determine what happened there, and there was a lot of camera footage to help decide, eventually, that the kid had acted in self defence (whether he should have been out that night with a militia is another question).
What's really depressing is that people aren't interested in trying to figure out what happened, factually speaking. They just want to use whatever media is out there to ramp up their agenda. The mainstream media is as guilty of that as anyone else these days.
Yep. i saw this with my own eyes at the BLM riots in Trafalgar Square. I was there with my Press Card alongside other journalists
We all witnessed the same thing, thugs from the crowd hunting down more gammony or EDL-y white people and beating the shit out of them. And nearly killing one or two
I thought, Well my God this will be all over the papers and TV tomorrow. Racial attacks that come close to lynchings
Not a peep. Nothing from the Beeb or ITV or Sky or any of the papers, and I know they were there because I chatted with them
In late middle age I belatedly realised: the media will completely lie when it suits their agenda or when a story doesn’t fit the narrative. Weirdly, it gave me sympathy for left wingers who were - in my eyes - always whining about a biased media. I finally realised they had and have a very valid point
For that and many other reasons I am now ten times more skeptical about MSM news. Which means you have to dig out the truth yourself, and it is hard, and getting harder
The UK media has rarely gone in for Pravda type lies, they are cleverer than that.
What didn't suit the agenda would just not get published or get a 30 second slot at the end of the bulleitein showing them in an unfavourable light if a big enough event so they couldn't be accused of bias.
In the days of a few licenced radio and tv stations and a handful of national media moguls this was extraordinarily effective.
Social media and ubiquitous high resolution camera phones has blown this apart and they don't really know what to do, especially once outlets proliferated in response to Covid era censorship attempts.
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
Drastic Effects, on PB?
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
Oh and I also posted an eyewitness report from London Bridge station warning of a large police presence and large numbers of idiots chanting "we are millwall, no one likes us, we dont care" heading towards Borough and warning to avoid the area.
lmao every weekend you get thousands of football fans passing through london railway stations with barely any bother.
I’ve been caught in a proper civil disturbance / pre-revolutionary riot before. Bolivia 2002. That was wild. Police on motor bikes charging at the crowd while firing semi automatic weapons into the air. Ripped my trousers clambering over a fence as the crowd pulsed. Got away quite lightly I suppose, not all protests in Bolivia in that era ended so cleanly.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
I think when these f*ckers get into Court in the morning, they'll all be crying that it was a moment of madness and they didn't mean it.
If we are having prompt weekend trials the overtime for the prosecutors will be worth it.
A few of your friends locked up for a few months or a couple of years should have an impact, just as I hope it does for Roger Hallam and his fellows.
I don't think disruptive protests like JSO and Tractors round Westminster can really be compared to the kind of violence we are seeing now.
The JSO conspirators were (imo) rightly sent to jail. But for entirely different reasons to why these people also belong there.
In some ways JSO gluing themselves to motorway gantries etc are worse. Ask someone stuck in an Ambulance or who missed their cancer appointment as a result.
But they’re middle class and centrist dads support them so they must be beyond criticism..
There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
An eyewitness report in the link above. A group of 'English lads' were on one side of the street throwing bricks, then a group of 'Muslim lads' appeared down the street. One person was hit on the head with a hammer, who you can see in the background of the video. He appears to be 'up' (i.e. not dead or unconscious) by the end of the video.
So while it's entirely wrong to say there are Muslims going round stabbing 'English' on the streets, as some people are saying on Twitter, today hasn't exactly been a day of racial harmony, either.
I fear things will escalate after nightfall.
Turns out it was a bit premature to say “Starmer and Cooper have handled this really well”
The police in Stoke issued a statement saying:
“We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media."
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment,”
So one of Leon's first acts after returning from his ban is to trot out false information from dodgy sources on twitter and use it to proclaim a race war.
Turns out it was probably hammers or maybe axes, not knives. My apologies to the site
What you should be apologising for is doing what the far right wants and ramping these 'protests' up into some kind of race war with two different sides. The various far right groupings on the internet are encouraging hardcore supporters to bus around northern towns and cause violence. Just watch them and you can see that there are hardly any placards with demands and there's no evidence that large numbers outside of their hardcore group is joining in. This is criminal damage by a load of thugs not some kind of societal breakdown.
You’ve not noticed the Muslim thugs tooled up with swords, machetes and staves? Just the white thugs?
I mean, the white thugs are definitely there, I can see them. Fat ugly bastards who need six months of Ozempic and a detox. But this is two sides going at it, and both sides are highly aggressive and angry
You must have very good eyesight to see them from France!
"Matt Goodwin @GoodwinMJ Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects. 4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024 55K Views"
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
Drastic Effects, on PB?
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
Oh and I also posted an eyewitness report from London Bridge station warning of a large police presence and large numbers of idiots chanting "we are millwall, no one likes us, we dont care" heading towards Borough and warning to avoid the area.
lmao every weekend you get thousands of football fans passing through london railway stations with barely any bother.
Yes but there is no football this weekend outside Scotland other than FA Cup preliminary rounds and friendlies.
I suspect the government and police dearly wish there was
"Matt Goodwin @GoodwinMJ Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects. 4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024 55K Views"
There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
An eyewitness report in the link above. A group of 'English lads' were on one side of the street throwing bricks, then a group of 'Muslim lads' appeared down the street. One person was hit on the head with a hammer, who you can see in the background of the video. He appears to be 'up' (i.e. not dead or unconscious) by the end of the video.
So while it's entirely wrong to say there are Muslims going round stabbing 'English' on the streets, as some people are saying on Twitter, today hasn't exactly been a day of racial harmony, either.
I fear things will escalate after nightfall.
Turns out it was a bit premature to say “Starmer and Cooper have handled this really well”
The police in Stoke issued a statement saying:
“We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media."
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment,”
So one of Leon's first acts after returning from his ban is to trot out false information from dodgy sources on twitter and use it to proclaim a race war.
Turns out it was probably hammers or maybe axes, not knives. My apologies to the site
What you should be apologising for is doing what the far right wants and ramping these 'protests' up into some kind of race war with two different sides. The various far right groupings on the internet are encouraging hardcore supporters to bus around northern towns and cause violence. Just watch them and you can see that there are hardly any placards with demands and there's no evidence that large numbers outside of their hardcore group is joining in. This is criminal damage by a load of thugs not some kind of societal breakdown.
You’ve not noticed the Muslim thugs tooled up with swords, machetes and staves? Just the white thugs?
I mean, the white thugs are definitely there, I can see them. Fat ugly bastards who need six months of Ozempic and a detox. But this is two sides going at it, and both sides are highly aggressive and angry
You must have very good eyesight to see them from France!
There is loads of video footage that shows this to be true including the police asking them to put them away.
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
Drastic Effects, on PB?
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
Oh and I also posted an eyewitness report from London Bridge station warning of a large police presence and large numbers of idiots chanting "we are millwall, no one likes us, we dont care" heading towards Borough and warning to avoid the area.
lmao every weekend you get thousands of football fans passing through london railway stations with barely any bother.
Yes but there is no football this weekend outside Scotland other than FA Cup preliminary rounds and friendlies.
I suspect the government and police dearly wish there was
I think when these f*ckers get into Court in the morning, they'll all be crying that it was a moment of madness and they didn't mean it.
If we are having prompt weekend trials the overtime for the prosecutors will be worth it.
A few of your friends locked up for a few months or a couple of years should have an impact, just as I hope it does for Roger Hallam and his fellows.
I don't think disruptive protests like JSO and Tractors round Westminster can really be compared to the kind of violence we are seeing now.
The JSO conspirators were (imo) rightly sent to jail. But for entirely different reasons to why these people also belong there.
In some ways JSO gluing themselves to motorway gantries etc are worse. Ask someone stuck in an Ambulance or who missed their cancer appointment as a result.
But they’re middle class and centrist dads support them so they must be beyond criticism..
If I went on a 2nd referendum march or a BLM protest I'd be OK.
If I marched (never rioted) against mass immigration there's a serious risk it could end my career.
I’ve been caught in a proper civil disturbance / pre-revolutionary riot before. Bolivia 2002. That was wild. Police on motor bikes charging at the crowd while firing semi automatic weapons into the air. Ripped my trousers clambering over a fence as the crowd pulsed. Got away quite lightly I suppose, not all protests in Bolivia in that era ended so cleanly.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
What does this phenomenon have to do with Labour, exactly? The only thing they can change rapidly is the policing policy. The protesters won't be assuaged by policies to reject non-white people in the future. They want rid of the ones they see today.
I thought we were planning to build our own fusion reactor next to the Trent anyway?
First Light Fusion ?
Sure, it’s promising. But there are a dozen private sector efforts which represent quicker and far cheaper experiments than does ITER. FLF is one of them.
I think when these f*ckers get into Court in the morning, they'll all be crying that it was a moment of madness and they didn't mean it.
If we are having prompt weekend trials the overtime for the prosecutors will be worth it.
A few of your friends locked up for a few months or a couple of years should have an impact, just as I hope it does for Roger Hallam and his fellows.
I don't think disruptive protests like JSO and Tractors round Westminster can really be compared to the kind of violence we are seeing now.
The JSO conspirators were (imo) rightly sent to jail. But for entirely different reasons to why these people also belong there.
I think the principle is the same tbh. Hallam and the JSO protestors knew they would cause significant harm, and carried on regardless, and they did cause significant harm.
I think when these f*ckers get into Court in the morning, they'll all be crying that it was a moment of madness and they didn't mean it.
If we are having prompt weekend trials the overtime for the prosecutors will be worth it.
A few of your friends locked up for a few months or a couple of years should have an impact, just as I hope it does for Roger Hallam and his fellows.
Have you forgotten that the government is trying to send fewer people to jail?
I don't think that applies to people involved in serious violence.
One of the reasons that is an aim is because 1/6 of the prison population are on remand, a situation which has been developing since 2019 and about which the previous Government chose - for reasons of incompetence, stupidity or recklessness (take your pick) - to do nothing.
They had 3 years since the end of COVID, and did nothing to deal with the gathering crisis.
I'm hoping we may be surprised how quickly progress is made on this.
I think we will have the numbers for Starmer's first two quarters early in 2025.
"I know this definitely happened cos some random bloke/woman/bot posted a video on Twitter!!!" Soon we'll be reporting as fact the unsubstantiated claims of Sharon on the local Facebook group, who got the 'facts' from her sister's mate whose kids go to the same school as somebody whose cousin saw it happen. Really.
The problem is, in this day and age
a) nobody is going to wait until tomorrow's papers publish a well-researched account of all the facts with all sources checked and verified.
b) people don't trust the mainstream media to not have an agenda now, either. Look at how they reported 'loud noises' heard at Trump's rally even when it was incredibly clear from multiple videos that it was an assassination attempt.
This means we have to make do with what we have, which is often chaotic and unverified, with pieces of the story emerging from multiple places. For example today I've seen angry white hooligan types charging coppers with wheelie bins, I've also seen 'Muslim' types wandering the streets with weapons and supposedly attacking people with knives. I've seen video of the police telling Muslim men to go back and store their weapons in the mosque. And that awful video of a group of white men in Manchester appearing to surround that one black man until the police step in.
Is everything I've seen today verified? Not really. But it's all viewable, now, with a couple of clicks.
Which means you have to make up your own mind. Because you can't wait for the mainstream media to make it up for you. I take everything I see on social media with a pinch of salt, but it looks a lot like race riots, with bad actors on both sides. In all of this, nuance will be lost. For example, the Muslim men being asked to put their weapons back in the mosque may well be out today defending their religious centre from far right thugs who've travelled miles to torch it to the ground - with little to no faith in police protection. But others will be out spinning it on social media as armed Muslims on the streets looking for trouble.
In a live-streamed, social media world where everyone has a camera, and pretty much everyone has an agenda, too, the idea that you can hope for 'truth' is for the birds. Look at the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, a chaotic scene where you had far right militias on one side and BLM types rioting on the others. It took months to determine what happened there, and there was a lot of camera footage to help decide, eventually, that the kid had acted in self defence (whether he should have been out that night with a militia is another question).
What's really depressing is that people aren't interested in trying to figure out what happened, factually speaking. They just want to use whatever media is out there to ramp up their agenda. The mainstream media is as guilty of that as anyone else these days.
About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.
The best thing these "counter demonstrators" can do is stay at home and give the police less needless work to do. I dare say they find turning out to provoke the idiots to be fun and thrilling, but it isn't helping anyone.
The counter demonstrators didn't need policing. I wandered through them completely un molested. They were just just chanting slogans like "Leicester united" and "racists off our streets".
"Matt Goodwin @GoodwinMJ Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects. 4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024 55K Views"
No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.
The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.
So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price
But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.
What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.
It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.
But do you see it with your own eyes in person, or do you see it with your own eyes via social media?
Comparing the availability of videos of incidents with any points in history beyond the last few years is utterly pointless. And having lived and worked in various areas in London myself, I certainly haven't seen a rise in crime in person.
Shoplifting is off the dial, and it seems to go unreported, and I’ve seen it surge from nowhere, and I’ve seen it get violent several times
Indeed London feels more violent now - to me - than it has for a decade or two; tho it felt a lot worse in the grotty early-mid 80s. Purely anecdotal (apart from the shoplifting, which I have witnessed)
I cannot really comment, except that it’s hard to “hide” rising violent crime from official statistics.
What I suspect has happened is that shoplifting and low-level crimes - vandalism, flytipping - and even general social nuisance like the habit of listening to iPhones on full volume on public transport - have all escalated.
This all gives the sense of rising menace.
Overall, the police recorded 2.1 million offences of violence against the person in the year ending March 2023. This was a 20% rise compared with the pre-coronavirus pandemic year ending March 2020 (1.8 million offences) and a slight increase (1%) compared with the year ending March 2022. Violence with injury was 6% higher (573,791 offences) than levels recorded in the year ending March 2020 (540,870 offences). In addition, violence without injury increased by 14% to 828,673 offences compared with the year ending March 2020 (728,265 offences).
"Matt Goodwin @GoodwinMJ Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects. 4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024 55K Views"
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
Drastic Effects, on PB?
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
Oh and I also posted an eyewitness report from London Bridge station warning of a large police presence and large numbers of idiots chanting "we are millwall, no one likes us, we dont care" heading towards Borough and warning to avoid the area.
Probably off to buy some cheese from the market. You can get some very nice French ones I believe.
I’ve been caught in a proper civil disturbance / pre-revolutionary riot before. Bolivia 2002. That was wild. Police on motor bikes charging at the crowd while firing semi automatic weapons into the air. Ripped my trousers clambering over a fence as the crowd pulsed. Got away quite lightly I suppose, not all protests in Bolivia in that era ended so cleanly.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
What does this phenomenon have to do with Labour, exactly? The only thing they can change rapidly is the policing policy. The protesters won't be assuaged by policies to reject non-white people in the future. They want rid of the ones they see today.
Exactly. You can't negotiate with people who just want mass deportations of British citizens of the wrong colour or religion.
AP (via Seattle Times) - Trump says he’ll skip an ABC debate with Harris in September and wants them to face off on Fox News
Donald Trump says he is pulling out of a scheduled September debate with Vice President Kamala Harris on ABC and wants them to face off on Fox News, making it increasingly unlikely that the candidates will confront each other on stage before the November election.
In a series of Truth Social posts late Friday, the Republican nominee and former president said his agreement to a Sept. 10 debate on ABC “has been terminated” because he will no longer face Democratic President Joe Biden, who ended his campaign last month after a disastrous performance in their first debate.
Trump now says he will appear on Fox News on Sept. 4 in Pennsylvania with rules that he called “similar” to his debate with Biden, but with a full audience instead of a mostly empty studio. Trump said that if Harris, the likely Democratic nominee, does not agree to the new network and date, he will do a “major Town Hall” with Fox News.
Michael Tyler, a Harris spokesperson, said Trump “is running scared and trying to back out of the debate he already agreed to and running straight to Fox News to bail him out.”
It was not immediately clear whether ABC would turn its Sept. 10 event into a Harris town hall in Trump’s absence. Tyler said Harris is committed to the time slot and would appear “one way or the other to take the opportunity to speak to a prime time national audience.”
SSI - See that self-proclaimed Hero of Butler is yet again burnishing his credentials as a bombastic bully coward.
NOT a good look and NOT a smart strategy . . . surprise! surprise!
The Rebellion punk music festival in Blackpool was disrupted by the far-right rioting earlier today. Punks have been photographed clearing up the mess in the aftermath.
I’ve been caught in a proper civil disturbance / pre-revolutionary riot before. Bolivia 2002. That was wild. Police on motor bikes charging at the crowd while firing semi automatic weapons into the air. Ripped my trousers clambering over a fence as the crowd pulsed. Got away quite lightly I suppose, not all protests in Bolivia in that era ended so cleanly.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
What does this phenomenon have to do with Labour, exactly? The only thing they can change rapidly is the policing policy. The protesters won't be assuaged by policies to reject non-white people in the future. They want rid of the ones they see today.
Honestly this is the sort of attitude that has got sections of society so angry. We don’t have enough houses or infrastructure and our productivity (and hence wealth creation) is shit, in large part because successive govts do nothing but throw cheap imported labour at the problem. There is also an undeniable dilution of traditional British values that is harming social cohesion. You can choose to ignore it if you want but it’s an European wide phenomenon. All you seem to want to do is make it about race, that’s as bad as the thugs out tonight and punching anyone that doesn’t look like them.
The phenomenon is as much to with Labour as the other three main Westminster parties, who have all adopted a similar policy stance since circa the millennium. It’s especially to do with Labour because they are now in the hot seat and the problems I describe are being felt by their voter base more than the average. Blair warned about this a few weeks ago, that if Starmer does not get a grip of the numbers then his flank is vulnerable to Reform. And his antenna is sharper than yours.
It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.
Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.
If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
wtf?
Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?
We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys
it’s all too real
It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.
So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.
Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.
I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
Drastic Effects, on PB?
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
Oh and I also posted an eyewitness report from London Bridge station warning of a large police presence and large numbers of idiots chanting "we are millwall, no one likes us, we dont care" heading towards Borough and warning to avoid the area.
lmao every weekend you get thousands of football fans passing through london railway stations with barely any bother.
Yes but there is no football this weekend outside Scotland other than FA Cup preliminary rounds and friendlies.
I suspect the government and police dearly wish there was
Millwall were playing a friendly ya numnut
Maybe they were but it was after the match and said fans appeared to be headed off towards the site of the site of where the London Bridge Terror attack ended not as the terrorists planned when said terrorists got into a fight with one of the Millwall fans in a nearby pub.
"I know this definitely happened cos some random bloke/woman/bot posted a video on Twitter!!!" Soon we'll be reporting as fact the unsubstantiated claims of Sharon on the local Facebook group, who got the 'facts' from her sister's mate whose kids go to the same school as somebody whose cousin saw it happen. Really.
The problem is, in this day and age
a) nobody is going to wait until tomorrow's papers publish a well-researched account of all the facts with all sources checked and verified.
b) people don't trust the mainstream media to not have an agenda now, either. Look at how they reported 'loud noises' heard at Trump's rally even when it was incredibly clear from multiple videos that it was an assassination attempt.
This means we have to make do with what we have, which is often chaotic and unverified, with pieces of the story emerging from multiple places. For example today I've seen angry white hooligan types charging coppers with wheelie bins, I've also seen 'Muslim' types wandering the streets with weapons and supposedly attacking people with knives. I've seen video of the police telling Muslim men to go back and store their weapons in the mosque. And that awful video of a group of white men in Manchester appearing to surround that one black man until the police step in.
Is everything I've seen today verified? Not really. But it's all viewable, now, with a couple of clicks.
Which means you have to make up your own mind. Because you can't wait for the mainstream media to make it up for you. I take everything I see on social media with a pinch of salt, but it looks a lot like race riots, with bad actors on both sides. In all of this, nuance will be lost. For example, the Muslim men being asked to put their weapons back in the mosque may well be out today defending their religious centre from far right thugs who've travelled miles to torch it to the ground - with little to no faith in police protection. But others will be out spinning it on social media as armed Muslims on the streets looking for trouble.
In a live-streamed, social media world where everyone has a camera, and pretty much everyone has an agenda, too, the idea that you can hope for 'truth' is for the birds. Look at the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, a chaotic scene where you had far right militias on one side and BLM types rioting on the others. It took months to determine what happened there, and there was a lot of camera footage to help decide, eventually, that the kid had acted in self defence (whether he should have been out that night with a militia is another question).
What's really depressing is that people aren't interested in trying to figure out what happened, factually speaking. They just want to use whatever media is out there to ramp up their agenda. The mainstream media is as guilty of that as anyone else these days.
Strikes me, that tactics and strategy, by those current egging on racist rioters in England, is very similar to that employed by Trump & etc. in egging on neo-nazis killers in Charlottesville and elsewhere in USA.
I’ve been caught in a proper civil disturbance / pre-revolutionary riot before. Bolivia 2002. That was wild. Police on motor bikes charging at the crowd while firing semi automatic weapons into the air. Ripped my trousers clambering over a fence as the crowd pulsed. Got away quite lightly I suppose, not all protests in Bolivia in that era ended so cleanly.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
What does this phenomenon have to do with Labour, exactly? The only thing they can change rapidly is the policing policy. The protesters won't be assuaged by policies to reject non-white people in the future. They want rid of the ones they see today.
Honestly this is the sort of attitude that has got sections of society so angry. We don’t have enough houses or infrastructure and our productivity (and hence wealth creation) is shit, in large part because successive govts do nothing but throw cheap imported labour at the problem. There is also an undeniable dilution of traditional British values that is harming social cohesion. You can choose to ignore it if you want but it’s an European wide phenomenon. All you seem to want to do is make it about race, that’s as bad as the thugs out tonight and punching anyone that doesn’t look like them.
The phenomenon is as much to with Labour as the other three main Westminster parties, who have all adopted a similar policy stance since circa the millennium. It’s especially to do with Labour because they are now in the hot seat and the problems I describe are being felt by their voter base more than the average. Blair warned about this a few weeks ago, that if Starmer does not get a grip of the numbers then his flank is vulnerable to Reform. And his antenna is sharper than yours.
As we discussed recently, Germany has had higher immigration over the last three years, and has better infrastructure, housing, and productivity.
Some of these have been the results of the post-Thatcherite consensus that carried through to New Labour, and that Starmer will need to partially break with at some point to reverse. This isn't to say that there aren't issues to deal with from time to time, but together with the Netherlands we've still made a better success of a multiracial society than the the vast majority of Europe, thanks largely to that very long liberal tradition.
I’ve been caught in a proper civil disturbance / pre-revolutionary riot before. Bolivia 2002. That was wild. Police on motor bikes charging at the crowd while firing semi automatic weapons into the air. Ripped my trousers clambering over a fence as the crowd pulsed. Got away quite lightly I suppose, not all protests in Bolivia in that era ended so cleanly.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
What does this phenomenon have to do with Labour, exactly? The only thing they can change rapidly is the policing policy. The protesters won't be assuaged by policies to reject non-white people in the future. They want rid of the ones they see today.
Honestly this is the sort of attitude that has got sections of society so angry. We don’t have enough houses or infrastructure and our productivity (and hence wealth creation) is shit, in large part because successive govts do nothing but throw cheap imported labour at the problem. There is also an undeniable dilution of traditional British values that is harming social cohesion. You can choose to ignore it if you want but it’s an European wide phenomenon. All you seem to want to do is make it about race, that’s as bad as the thugs out tonight and punching anyone that doesn’t look like them.
The phenomenon is as much to with Labour as the other three main Westminster parties, who have all adopted a similar policy stance since circa the millennium. It’s especially to do with Labour because they are now in the hot seat and the problems I describe are being felt by their voter base more than the average. Blair warned about this a few weeks ago, that if Starmer does not get a grip of the numbers then his flank is vulnerable to Reform. And his antenna is sharper than yours.
The decline of traditional British values is hardly a European wide phenomenon. Maybe that confusion is why most people think you really mean race by that.
Blair's political instinct is to be right-wing enough for Rupert Murdoch; elections have consequences, and at the most recent election, the government received the support of neither the right-wing media nor borrowed votes from Farage and the far right.
The two stranded American astronauts make me think that NASA officials should read Heinlein's short story, "Delilah and the Space-Rigger", especially the very end.
So in theory, every capsule can dock to each other and the ISS.
Awesome, right?
Except that Starliner doesn’t implant both active and passive modes. To save about 20lg in weight.
So if Starliner disconnects from the station, and the thrusters fail, a Dragon capsule can’t directly dock with them to rescue the occupants.
They could die in sight of the station. Very fucking slowly.
Not entirely sure about your sense of humour.
Apollo 13 is a great film but my favourite scene is when the engineers work out how to get the CO2 scrubbers to work using what is on board the spacecraft including a sock.
I’ve been caught in a proper civil disturbance / pre-revolutionary riot before. Bolivia 2002. That was wild. Police on motor bikes charging at the crowd while firing semi automatic weapons into the air. Ripped my trousers clambering over a fence as the crowd pulsed. Got away quite lightly I suppose, not all protests in Bolivia in that era ended so cleanly.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
What does this phenomenon have to do with Labour, exactly? The only thing they can change rapidly is the policing policy. The protesters won't be assuaged by policies to reject non-white people in the future. They want rid of the ones they see today.
Honestly this is the sort of attitude that has got sections of society so angry. We don’t have enough houses or infrastructure and our productivity (and hence wealth creation) is shit, in large part because successive govts do nothing but throw cheap imported labour at the problem. There is also an undeniable dilution of traditional British values that is harming social cohesion. You can choose to ignore it if you want but it’s an European wide phenomenon. All you seem to want to do is make it about race, that’s as bad as the thugs out tonight and punching anyone that doesn’t look like them.
The phenomenon is as much to with Labour as the other three main Westminster parties, who have all adopted a similar policy stance since circa the millennium. It’s especially to do with Labour because they are now in the hot seat and the problems I describe are being felt by their voter base more than the average. Blair warned about this a few weeks ago, that if Starmer does not get a grip of the numbers then his flank is vulnerable to Reform. And his antenna is sharper than yours.
As we discussed recently, Germany has had higher immigration over the last three years, and has better infrastructure, housing, and productivity.
Some of these have been the results of the post-Thatcherite consensus that carried through to New Labour, and that Starmer will need to partially break with at some point to reverse. This isn't to say that there aren't issues to deal with from time to time, but together with the Netherlands we've still made a better success of a multiracial society than the the vast majority of Europe, thanks largely to that very long liberal tradition.
For liberalism to work, it requires that the principles of liberalism are upheld across society. You can’t have a growing percentage of society with values completely counter to liberalism and expect the consensus to hold.
AP (via Seattle Times) - Trump says he’ll skip an ABC debate with Harris in September and wants them to face off on Fox News
Donald Trump says he is pulling out of a scheduled September debate with Vice President Kamala Harris on ABC and wants them to face off on Fox News, making it increasingly unlikely that the candidates will confront each other on stage before the November election.
In a series of Truth Social posts late Friday, the Republican nominee and former president said his agreement to a Sept. 10 debate on ABC “has been terminated” because he will no longer face Democratic President Joe Biden, who ended his campaign last month after a disastrous performance in their first debate.
Trump now says he will appear on Fox News on Sept. 4 in Pennsylvania with rules that he called “similar” to his debate with Biden, but with a full audience instead of a mostly empty studio. Trump said that if Harris, the likely Democratic nominee, does not agree to the new network and date, he will do a “major Town Hall” with Fox News.
Michael Tyler, a Harris spokesperson, said Trump “is running scared and trying to back out of the debate he already agreed to and running straight to Fox News to bail him out.”
It was not immediately clear whether ABC would turn its Sept. 10 event into a Harris town hall in Trump’s absence. Tyler said Harris is committed to the time slot and would appear “one way or the other to take the opportunity to speak to a prime time national audience.”
SSI - See that self-proclaimed Hero of Butler is yet again burnishing his credentials as a bombastic bully coward.
NOT a good look and NOT a smart strategy . . . surprise! surprise!
In the UK, the tradition is to have Trump represented at the ABC debate by a tub of lard.
I’ve been caught in a proper civil disturbance / pre-revolutionary riot before. Bolivia 2002. That was wild. Police on motor bikes charging at the crowd while firing semi automatic weapons into the air. Ripped my trousers clambering over a fence as the crowd pulsed. Got away quite lightly I suppose, not all protests in Bolivia in that era ended so cleanly.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
What does this phenomenon have to do with Labour, exactly? The only thing they can change rapidly is the policing policy. The protesters won't be assuaged by policies to reject non-white people in the future. They want rid of the ones they see today.
Honestly this is the sort of attitude that has got sections of society so angry. We don’t have enough houses or infrastructure and our productivity (and hence wealth creation) is shit, in large part because successive govts do nothing but throw cheap imported labour at the problem. There is also an undeniable dilution of traditional British values that is harming social cohesion. You can choose to ignore it if you want but it’s an European wide phenomenon. All you seem to want to do is make it about race, that’s as bad as the thugs out tonight and punching anyone that doesn’t look like them.
The phenomenon is as much to with Labour as the other three main Westminster parties, who have all adopted a similar policy stance since circa the millennium. It’s especially to do with Labour because they are now in the hot seat and the problems I describe are being felt by their voter base more than the average. Blair warned about this a few weeks ago, that if Starmer does not get a grip of the numbers then his flank is vulnerable to Reform. And his antenna is sharper than yours.
The decline of traditional British values is hardly a European wide phenomenon. Maybe that confusion is why most people think you really mean race by that.
Blair's political instinct is to be right-wing enough for Rupert Murdoch; elections have consequences, and at the most recent election, the government received the support of neither the right-wing media nor borrowed votes from Farage and the far right.
That’s a not particularly clever game of semantics and you know exactly what I mean. European liberalist values then.
Comments
The 70s was pretty horrible for street violence.
In theory, all modern spacecraft implement the
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_System_Standard
So in theory, every capsule can dock to each other and the ISS.
Awesome, right?
Except that Starliner doesn’t implant both active and passive modes. To save about 20lg in weight.
So if Starliner disconnects from the station, and the thrusters fail, a Dragon capsule can’t directly dock with them to rescue the occupants.
They could die in sight of the station. Very fucking slowly.
As an aside, there were posters in the area that said: "Kill the Nazi scum!"; which I thought was rather taking Nazi ideas to heart - kill the enemy...
Man hosting website he knew was filled with far-right terrorism material sentenced to an 11 year extended sentence.
Colin McNeil (31/08/1977) received an 11 year extended sentence, comprising of 7 years in custody and 4 years on extended licence. He will also be subject to a terrorist notification order for 30 years.
McNeil of Beeston Road, Leeds, provided a service, in the form of an online website, that facilitated others to obtain terrorist publications and by doing so committed four dissemination offences contrary to Section 2(2)(d) Terrorism Act 2006.
The website was deliberately, and very publicly, unmoderated with McNeil admitting in a police interview that he knew the site had been ‘swamped’ by material supporting extreme right-wing ideologies.
When he became aware that terrorist publications were being distributed on the website, he continued to play an active role in its administration. McNeil was first arrested on the 23 March 2022 following an investigation by Counter Terrorism Policing North East.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/leeds-man-sentenced-for-hosting-terrorist-website/
“We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media."
We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment,”
So one of Leon's first acts after returning from his ban is to trot out false information from dodgy sources on twitter and use it to proclaim a race war.
I’m sure you are right
I may not remember the exact year but I remember the experience. Truly hallucinatory. I recall using social media to see how close the riots were getting to my flat on the wild Primrose Hill borders. At one point they came up Parkway and I thought, whoah. This is it, defend my home
But I had no tools so I stood on my balcony armed with… a bottle of Gran Reserva Rioja. What was I gonna do with it? Calm the rioters down with its notes of elegant leather and dark chocolate?
I actually saw a rioter - just one - like the crest of wave - he reached the top of Parkway, glanced up at me: this mad dude with a wine bottle on a balcony. He shrugged, and went back down the street. And that was it
Or even better pass a copy to the Judge sentencing the next group of JSOs.
The Tory problem is that the right-wing factionalists in the parliamentary party usually have just enough numbers to slip their candidate - however unsuitable - into the final two on which the members' vote.
The saving grace this time is that the process may be long enough for the inadequacies of Jenrick to become obvious. But who knows?
Apollo 13 is a great film but my favourite scene is when the engineers work out how to get the CO2 scrubbers to work using what is on board the spacecraft including a sock.
https://www.houseofmalt.co.uk/product/brenne-ten-10-year-old-french-single-malt-whisky-70cl/ is worth a try - the closest Scotch comparison might be something like one of the Aberlour A'bunadhs (or should that be A'bhunadh?), but with a notably cognac-y tang.
But the point is that if the liberal elite perceive all this as 'far right terrorism', such that they need to be kicked in to line, and hate speech laws etc boosted to bring the population in to check, then it will probably fail this time around because people have got so fed up with immigration (as exemplified by support for deportations) also looking at global trends - the 'far right' is now mainstream in Europe, they would be attempting to ban ideas that are supported by the Italian government, and possibly also the next French and US president.
The point is that you can deal with 'far right criminal thuggery', but you also need to isolate it by dealing with wider public concerns about immigration and integration. And the latter is what I suspect the Labour government will avoid doing.
It was only listening to Today the morning after that I realised anything had happened, so I went for a walk up the Broadway to assess the damage. I recall the local branch of Foxton's had been smashed to pieces, while the neighbouring charity shop was untouched. Evidence of some discrimination, I thought.
A strange one. This could be Freemen on the Land types.
A cultish group believed they could appoint themselves as legal authorities, and kidnapped the staff of a Coroners Court when they were aiming to capture the Coroner and put him on trial.
An "anti-establishment cult" attempted to kidnap a coroner and subject him to "corporal punishment", a court heard.
Mark Christopher, 58, Matthew Martin, 47, Shiza Harper, 45, and Sean Harper, 38, wanted to "shut down" Essex Coroner's Court in April 2023, it was alleged.
They stormed into the building in Chelmsford with handcuffs as they worked to "arrest, detain and take" senior coroner Lincoln Brookes, a prosecutor said.
The defendants, from Essex and east London, deny a number of offences.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c16j8n8wd3ko
Weird stuff. Found guilty. There'll be having time to read up on the law.
https://www.essex.police.uk/news/essex/news/news/2024/july/coroner-kidnap-plot-conviction/
a) nobody is going to wait until tomorrow's papers publish a well-researched account of all the facts with all sources checked and verified.
b) people don't trust the mainstream media to not have an agenda now, either. Look at how they reported 'loud noises' heard at Trump's rally even when it was incredibly clear from multiple videos that it was an assassination attempt.
This means we have to make do with what we have, which is often chaotic and unverified, with pieces of the story emerging from multiple places. For example today I've seen angry white hooligan types charging coppers with wheelie bins, I've also seen 'Muslim' types wandering the streets with weapons and supposedly attacking people with knives. I've seen video of the police telling Muslim men to go back and store their weapons in the mosque. And that awful video of a group of white men in Manchester appearing to surround that one black man until the police step in.
Is everything I've seen today verified? Not really. But it's all viewable, now, with a couple of clicks.
Which means you have to make up your own mind. Because you can't wait for the mainstream media to make it up for you. I take everything I see on social media with a pinch of salt, but it looks a lot like race riots, with bad actors on both sides. In all of this, nuance will be lost. For example, the Muslim men being asked to put their weapons back in the mosque may well be out today defending their religious centre from far right thugs who've travelled miles to torch it to the ground - with little to no faith in police protection. But others will be out spinning it on social media as armed Muslims on the streets looking for trouble.
In a live-streamed, social media world where everyone has a camera, and pretty much everyone has an agenda, too, the idea that you can hope for 'truth' is for the birds. Look at the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse, a chaotic scene where you had far right militias on one side and BLM types rioting on the others. It took months to determine what happened there, and there was a lot of camera footage to help decide, eventually, that the kid had acted in self defence (whether he should have been out that night with a militia is another question).
What's really depressing is that people aren't interested in trying to figure out what happened, factually speaking. They just want to use whatever media is out there to ramp up their agenda. The mainstream media is as guilty of that as anyone else these days.
This isn't Mumsnet or Twatter.
However when I *responded* to a poster (not Leon), reporting an incident in Stoke, I exercised due caution and caveated my words eg "appears", omitted any details of the alleged perpetrators and omitted any link to any external sources e.g. tweets.
If PB didn't discuss any current events until all the facts are known sometime later it would be rather tedious.
If we are having prompt weekend trials the overtime for the prosecutors will be worth it.
A few of your friends locked up for a few months or a couple of years should have an impact, just as I hope it does for Roger Hallam and his fellows.
We all witnessed the same thing, thugs from the crowd hunting down more gammony or EDL-y white people and beating the shit out of them. And nearly killing one or two
I thought, Well my God this will be all over the papers and TV tomorrow. Racial attacks that come close to lynchings
Not a peep. Nothing from the Beeb or ITV or Sky or any of the papers, and I know they were there because I chatted with them
In late middle age I belatedly realised: the media will completely lie when it suits their agenda or when a story doesn’t fit the narrative. Weirdly, it gave me sympathy for left wingers who were - in my eyes - always whining about a biased media. I finally realised they had and have a very valid point
For that and many other reasons I am now ten times more skeptical about MSM news. Which means you have to dig out the truth yourself, and it is hard, and getting harder
I mean, the white thugs are definitely there, I can see them. Fat ugly bastards who need six months of Ozempic and a detox. But this is two sides going at it, and both sides are highly aggressive and angry
I started early and today I have bet £50 on Kamala Harris for POTUS at 11/10 from one of Ladbrokes and Coral. If she wins my returns will be £105, a profit of £55. If she loses my returns will be 0, a loss will be £50
It's too early and I should have waited until the Veep pick. But it was a nice warm Saturday and I thought: "why not". We will find out in 94 days...
#bigboypants
https://x.com/CrimeLdn/status/1819787450257997887?t=9trU1C9iIzd_y177l49bkw&s=19
The JSO conspirators were (imo) rightly sent to jail. But for entirely different reasons to why these people also belong there.
No real reason, no real justification needed. Just the desire to feel powerful for once in their lives.
I remember the news listing off the places where there had been riots / violence the night before & the list including Knutsford. Knutsford! Wealthiest town in Cheshire probably.
When will we get it through our heads. A gallant loser is a loser.
What didn't suit the agenda would just not get published or get a 30 second slot at the end of the bulleitein showing them in an unfavourable light if a big enough event so they couldn't be accused of bias.
In the days of a few licenced radio and tv stations and a handful of national media moguls this was extraordinarily effective.
Social media and ubiquitous high resolution camera phones has blown this apart and they don't really know what to do, especially once outlets proliferated in response to Covid era censorship attempts.
Anyway this isn’t that. There’s some angry people that feel left behind by our economy and democracy. And some av-eet boys livening up an otherwise boring summer. And some wronguns of various stripes. And a new government that hasn’t yet come to terms with the hard choices that power brings.
That government would however be foolish to overlook the undercurrent among the wwc, who seem to me to be throughly and justifiably fed up. If they’re not careful, the eventual reverse take over by Reform won’t be of the Conservative Party but Labour.
The 35-nation Iter project has a groundbreaking aim to create clean and limitless energy but it is turning into the ‘most delayed and cost-inflated science project in history’
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/aug/03/is-the-dream-of-nuclear-fusion-dead-why-the-international-experimental-reactor-is-in-big-trouble
I suspect the government and police dearly wish there was
If I marched (never rioted) against mass immigration there's a serious risk it could end my career.
So by proposing a Fox debate he knows Harris likely refuses he can avoid a second most likely
Sure, it’s promising. But there are a dozen private sector efforts which represent quicker and far cheaper experiments than does ITER.
FLF is one of them.
One of the reasons that is an aim is because 1/6 of the prison population are on remand, a situation which has been developing since 2019 and about which the previous Government chose - for reasons of incompetence, stupidity or recklessness (take your pick) - to do nothing.
They had 3 years since the end of COVID, and did nothing to deal with the gathering crisis.
I'm hoping we may be surprised how quickly progress is made on this.
I think we will have the numbers for Starmer's first two quarters early in 2025.
What was your best result?
Me, about 12 seconds. I wouldn’t have qualified for the women’s race.
Donald Trump says he is pulling out of a scheduled September debate with Vice President Kamala Harris on ABC and wants them to face off on Fox News, making it increasingly unlikely that the candidates will confront each other on stage before the November election.
In a series of Truth Social posts late Friday, the Republican nominee and former president said his agreement to a Sept. 10 debate on ABC “has been terminated” because he will no longer face Democratic President Joe Biden, who ended his campaign last month after a disastrous performance in their first debate.
Trump now says he will appear on Fox News on Sept. 4 in Pennsylvania with rules that he called “similar” to his debate with Biden, but with a full audience instead of a mostly empty studio. Trump said that if Harris, the likely Democratic nominee, does not agree to the new network and date, he will do a “major Town Hall” with Fox News.
Michael Tyler, a Harris spokesperson, said Trump “is running scared and trying to back out of the debate he already agreed to and running straight to Fox News to bail him out.”
It was not immediately clear whether ABC would turn its Sept. 10 event into a Harris town hall in Trump’s absence. Tyler said Harris is committed to the time slot and would appear “one way or the other to take the opportunity to speak to a prime time national audience.”
SSI - See that self-proclaimed Hero of Butler is yet again burnishing his credentials as a bombastic bully coward.
NOT a good look and NOT a smart strategy . . . surprise! surprise!
(no sniggering at the back, please)
Guardian
Kudos.
Keep it up. 🧐
The phenomenon is as much to with Labour as the other three main Westminster parties, who have all adopted a similar policy stance since circa the millennium. It’s especially to do with Labour because they are now in the hot seat and the problems I describe are being felt by their voter base more than the average. Blair warned about this a few weeks ago, that if Starmer does not get a grip of the numbers then his flank is vulnerable to Reform. And his antenna is sharper than yours.
Hopefully you are right though.
Who’s in charge while he’s away?
Is it actually Rayner, or is he nominating Cooper or Reeves?
Nottingham - Check.
Sounds about right.
Curs dog-whistling to their fellow curs.
Some of these have been the results of the post-Thatcherite consensus that carried through to New Labour, and that Starmer will need to partially break with at some point to reverse. This isn't to say that there aren't issues to deal with from time to time, but together with the Netherlands we've still made a better success of a multiracial society than the the vast majority of Europe, thanks largely to that very long liberal tradition.
Blair's political instinct is to be right-wing enough for Rupert Murdoch; elections have consequences, and at the most recent election, the government received the support of neither the right-wing media nor borrowed votes from Farage and the far right.