Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The Ayrshire hotelier is running scared – politicalbetting.com

245678

Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509

    It used to be, before the peace process, that racism against Muslims, Jews etc in NI was low.

    The haters had all the hating they needed.

    Since the peace process… yup, haters gotta hate..
    I really don’t think that’s the dynamic at work here

    Much more like: Ireland has never before experienced mass non-western immigration. Like Denmark and Sweden before it, but more so. Ireland was always an exporter of people. Then it got some Eastern Europeans but they assimilated easily

    Now they are getting non western migration in large numbers and for various reasons a lot of them don’t like it
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    The Southport stabber wasn't an immigrant.

    https://x.com/arusbridger/status/1819762135523541391
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976
    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    Nick Lowles
    @lowles_nick
    ·
    19m
    Serious disorder is now taking place in Hull
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    "legitimate protesters" now looting shops.

  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited August 3
    Russian trolls and disinformationalists are going to have a field day wrt these protests.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,114
    edited August 3
    Leon said:

    It used to be, before the peace process, that racism against Muslims, Jews etc in NI was low.

    The haters had all the hating they needed.

    Since the peace process… yup, haters gotta hate..
    I really don’t think that’s the dynamic at work here

    Much more like: Ireland has never before experienced mass non-western immigration. Like Denmark and Sweden before it, but more so. Ireland was always an exporter of people. Then it got some Eastern Europeans but they assimilated easily

    Now they are getting non western migration in large numbers and for various reasons a lot of them don’t like it
    Just now: Irishman wins Gold in the men's Pommel Horse.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509
    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Am I the only one who really doesn't give a sh1t about how Ireland do at the Olympics? Why does the BBC get so excited every time they get a result?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Andy_JS said:

    Russian trolls and disinformationalists are going to have a field day wrt these protests.

    Leon already is
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,708

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    The guy's just obsessed with this "elite" he claims to have discovered are running the country.
    So who would Goodwin prefer to be running the country? Himself, of course, but who else?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,114
    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    The Southport stabber wasn't a Muslim or a Palestinian.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited August 3
    DavidL said:

    Am I the only one who really doesn't give a sh1t about how Ireland do at the Olympics? Why does the BBC get so excited every time they get a result?

    Because they are still part of the UK really, we all just keep up an elaborate fiction to avoid trouble :wink:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited August 3
    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Congratulations on posting that before Leon or Mister Bedfordshire.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,114

    DavidL said:

    Am I the only one who really doesn't give a sh1t about how Ireland do at the Olympics? Why does the BBC get so excited every time they get a result?

    Because they are still part of the UK really, we all just keep up an elaborate fiction to avoid trouble :wink:
    He's from Newtownards, in fact!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,259
    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    This grouo here is just the same sort of people who used to support Combat 18 in the'90s ; probably even their children.

    Definitely not people simply being 'stifled" by the elite on having a "legitimate debate about immigration."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    The guy's just obsessed with this "elite" he claims to have discovered are running the country.
    So who would Goodwin prefer to be running the country? Himself, of course, but who else?
    He's a member of his own 'elite'. He's a leading academic at a major university and a published author.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    Anyone else watching Poland and Italy playing volleyball? Amazing to watch.

    This is a very different sport to what I played at school.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509
    DavidL said:

    Am I the only one who really doesn't give a sh1t about how Ireland do at the Olympics? Why does the BBC get so excited every time they get a result?

    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Congratulations on posting that before Leon or Mister Bedfordshire.
    It’s all hideous

    We are pitching into hell
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    edited August 3
    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    Corbyn is against all violence, you might consider him naïve but have you ever heard him say anything different? If the pro-Palestinian marches were anything like what's going on today then you might have an argument but they aren't are they.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,032
    At least the olympics are proving to be a nice distraction from all the unrest

    I’m not really sure how to gauge what’s happening. It seems to be getting worse but then I’m dubious about the stuff on X now. TikTok seems to have quite stark live videos of events - mostly in the north - of unrest.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    Is that Goodwin the pollster?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Am I the only one who really doesn't give a sh1t about how Ireland do at the Olympics? Why does the BBC get so excited every time they get a result?

    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Congratulations on posting that before Leon or Mister Bedfordshire.
    It’s all hideous

    We are pitching into hell
    Oh get a grip. We are nothing of the sort. You are in proper drama queen mode today (welcome back by the way, I always enjoy your contributions).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Single person turns up to protest in Doncaster.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Sandpit said:

    Anyone else watching Poland and Italy playing volleyball? Amazing to watch.

    This is a very different sport to what I played at school.

    No. I turned on and yet again it is the BBC with a few people in a studio discussing sport.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,997

    "legitimate protesters" now looting shops.

    No one is claiming they are legitimate protesters. If it’s like Sunlan most will be from outside the area. Looting shops is not legitimate protest just like blocking motorways isn’t.

    Treat them exactly the same as they treated the rioters after the riots over the death of drug dealer Hacksaw Mark Duggan.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,997
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    Is that Goodwin the pollster?
    How’s France Rogerdamus ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,334
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.

    Not the sharpest knives in the drawer:

    An anti-immigration protester has claimed the Titanic sank because there was ‘too many people’ in a bizarre comparison to the UK.

    The Titanic sank due to a collision with an iceberg, not because of the number of people aboard the ship.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/uk-riots-live-hundreds-far-141059517.html
    Now, come on. We can make some logical assumptions to show this is correct.

    The Titanic left port on a scheduled sailing to America.

    But it would have been cancelled if there hadn't been passengers booked on it.*

    Therefore, it hit the iceberg because too many people were on it. If there hadn't been people on it, it wouldn't have been there.

    /sarcasmends.

    *Actually, as a mail ship it would have sailed anyway. But we're trying to understand the logic of these people.
    There were too many people for the lifeboats, but that isn't the same thing ...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    GB News whackos now gibbering about civil war.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    GB News whackos now gibbering about civil war.

    Oh FFS. This is pathetic.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Starmer's not going to get his family holiday at the end of next week is he?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,718

    Single person turns up to protest in Doncaster.

    Incel, is he?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited August 3

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone else watching Poland and Italy playing volleyball? Amazing to watch.

    This is a very different sport to what I played at school.

    No. I turned on and yet again it is the BBC with a few people in a studio discussing sport.
    The Olympics deal they did with Discovery is really bad and handicaps their ability to show things, but then they make it worse with all the filler.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,997
    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Go have a crywank over Brexit you mug. With that twat with the top hat.

    This is just blatant criminality. All the perps should be arrested, prosecuted and if found guilty suffer the consequences.

    It does not diminish concerns as to the direction of the country people may have.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    GB News whackos now gibbering about civil war.

    They're right. Starmer should declare Martial Law, and shut down the TV stations...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    DavidL said:

    GB News whackos now gibbering about civil war.

    Oh FFS. This is pathetic.
    This is what you get when clickbaiting dominates so-called journalism and Ofcom does nothing about a broadcast station breaking the rules.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    Starmer's not going to get his family holiday at the end of next week is he?

    He should bloody well go. This small collection of prats are not worthy of his attention.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Starmer's not going to get his family holiday at the end of next week is he?

    Well he's hardly front of house today when the plods are taking the heat, so I suspect he'll head off no matter what.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Am I the only one who really doesn't give a sh1t about how Ireland do at the Olympics? Why does the BBC get so excited every time they get a result?

    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Congratulations on posting that before Leon or Mister Bedfordshire.
    It’s all hideous

    We are pitching into hell
    No, we will endure, as we always do.

    Brits always smash the fascists, from Cable Street to the National Front.

    We'll smash these bunch of twats you seem eager to embolden/defend.

    I mean this with all kindness, but you're turning into a late era Plato, and I really don't want that.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Taz said:

    It does not diminish concerns as to the direction of the country people may have.

    My concern as to the direction of the Country is lynch mobs roaming the streets and fuckwits cheering them on
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976
    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,259

    GB News whackos now gibbering about civil war.

    The tabloid feedback is the more worrying aspect than the actually limited incidents so far.

    The Mail is whipping its readers into a similar frenzy of fear, for instance. Another total and spectacular failure of the British press' s marvellous system on "self-regulation".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509
    DM_Andy said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    Corbyn is against all violence, you might consider him naïve but have you ever heard him say anything different? If the pro-Palestinian marches were anything like what's going on today then you might have an argument but they aren't are they.
    He was “good friends” with Hamas you fecking idiot
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Police now saying no one was stabbed in Stoke.

    Total social media bollx.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    DavidL said:

    Starmer's not going to get his family holiday at the end of next week is he?

    He should bloody well go. This small collection of prats are not worthy of his attention.
    Of course he should,

    Then I can spend weeks comparing him to Dominic Raab with the full support of PB lefties who disapprove of such things.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976
    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    More: whilst shop thefts are up crime in general is down according to two different surveys since the surge of immigration.

    We have seen an unprecedented surge in immigration and despite our feelings crime is not up because of it
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67161967.amp
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Single person turns up to protest in Doncaster.

    About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.




  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,111
    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    But do you see it with your own eyes in person, or do you see it with your own eyes via social media?

    Comparing the availability of videos of incidents with any points in history beyond the last few years is utterly pointless. And having lived and worked in various areas in London myself, I certainly haven't seen a rise in crime in person.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 976
    Now ofcourse you might still say we should reduce net migration. But you can't say you want to do that to reduce crime
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,612
    edited August 3
    Good evening

    A lovely sunny day with Llandudno full of tourists enjoying its attractions, and driving home from Asda past the RNLI boathouse on the promenade, with lots of people on the Summit of the Little Orme taking in the fantastic views it is hard to realise what is happening in our Cities and Towns with rioting that is just horrible to witness

    It seems it is mainly active in all those towns left behind with successive governments and it does raise profound questions as to why now and how it can be defused

    I really do fear that this is not something that will be resolved easily, or soon, no matter how many agitators are jailed and it really is the first major crises for Starmer and his government
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Foxy said:

    Single person turns up to protest in Doncaster.

    About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.




    Mail: "Riots sweep Britain"

    The word sweep doing a hell of a lot of lifting there.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Am I the only one who really doesn't give a sh1t about how Ireland do at the Olympics? Why does the BBC get so excited every time they get a result?

    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Congratulations on posting that before Leon or Mister Bedfordshire.
    It’s all hideous

    We are pitching into hell
    Oh get a grip. We are nothing of the sort. You are in proper drama queen mode today (welcome back by the way, I always enjoy your contributions).
    lol. I’m having a big fat gin and tonic in one of Béziers many pretty squares. It should sort me out

    Incidentally @SandraMc might bw on to something. There is a faint hint of oddness to the place. Obvs Béziers is the town where they famously slaughtered all the heretics - “slay them all; God will know his own”

    But there is also a hot fast strange wind blowing. Like a hot mistral. Shutters banging. Babies crying

    LE DARK NOOM EST ICI
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723
    Leon said:

    It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.

    Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.

    If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
    wtf?

    Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?

    We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
    So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,334

    DavidL said:

    Starmer's not going to get his family holiday at the end of next week is he?

    He should bloody well go. This small collection of prats are not worthy of his attention.
    Of course he should,

    Then I can spend weeks comparing him to Dominic Raab with the full support of PB lefties who disapprove of such things.
    Not logical. That would be Boris Johnson. Prime Minister, remember. You're thinking of the Home Sec.
  • Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    Point of order. Reported violent crime is down.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    I would like to believe this. But I am also conscious that we have a police force who can't be arsed to turn up when people have had a break in. Or been mugged. Who denied hundreds of young girls were being raped because they are no better than they ought to be. Or something. Who seem to have given up on road traffic offences.

    It is increasingly difficult to have confidence in recorded crime when the only point in reporting anything is to get an insurance number. Peoples perceptions are distorted by overly dramatic media coverage but do we really believe crime is falling?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.

    Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.

    If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
    wtf?

    Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?

    We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
    So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
    Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys

    it’s all too real
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,334

    Foxy said:

    Single person turns up to protest in Doncaster.

    About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.




    Mail: "Riots sweep Britain"

    The word sweep doing a hell of a lot of lifting there.

    Not to mention Britain.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    Good afternoon / evening from tranquil Manhattan.

    Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,997
    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    It does not diminish concerns as to the direction of the country people may have.

    My concern as to the direction of the Country is lynch mobs roaming the streets and fuckwits cheering them on
    Same here. As well as fuckwits using what is happening, on both sides, to advance an agenda.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited August 3
    DavidL said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    I would like to believe this. But I am also conscious that we have a police force who can't be arsed to turn up when people have had a break in. Or been mugged. Who denied hundreds of young girls were being raped because they are no better than they ought to be. Or something. Who seem to have given up on road traffic offences.

    It is increasingly difficult to have confidence in recorded crime when the only point in reporting anything is to get an insurance number. Peoples perceptions are distorted by overly dramatic media coverage but do we really believe crime is falling?
    I highly doubt shops are reporting all the shop lifting. People certainly aren't reporting every time they get their phone snatched.

    The big one that definitely isn't getting picked up, fraud.

    I was a "victim" (I didn't personally lose money, other people did) of a common insurance scam, where people sell insurance online to mostly young people and they register the insurance using details of somebody else and use a stolen credit card. I was put on 10+ vehicles in a week across different insurances. I of course queried this and the insurance companies just shrugged and said yeah yeah, happens every day, all sorted, and I said, do I need to ring the police etc, no no, just report it to fraud non-profit (I can't remember name off the top of my head). I did, never got a response.

    It is why we have the British Crime Survey, but we have seen how much trouble polling companies have getting representative samples these days.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    edited August 3
    DavidL said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    I would like to believe this. But I am also conscious that we have a police force who can't be arsed to turn up when people have had a break in. Or been mugged. Who denied hundreds of young girls were being raped because they are no better than they ought to be. Or something. Who seem to have given up on road traffic offences.

    It is increasingly difficult to have confidence in recorded crime when the only point in reporting anything is to get an insurance number. Peoples perceptions are distorted by overly dramatic media coverage but do we really believe crime is falling?
    Crime surveys cover unreported crime too, that too has been dropping for years.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#:~:text=6.-,Violence,the year ending September 2022
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Go have a crywank over Brexit you mug. With that twat with the top hat.

    This is just blatant criminality. All the perps should be arrested, prosecuted and if found guilty suffer the consequences.

    It does not diminish concerns as to the direction of the country people may have.
    Is it past the lagershed already?

    On a day like today, with everything that's going on, a little bit less anger in the air can't hurt.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,997

    Single person turns up to protest in Doncaster.

    Hopefully it is losing momentum
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.

    Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.

    If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
    wtf?

    Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?

    We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
    So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
    Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys

    it’s all too real
    James Tapper
    In the midst of dealing with disorder in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire Police issued a statement debunking claims that a stabbing had taken place.

    “We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.

    “We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment,” the force said.

    Four men were arrested over the incident.

    Guradian
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509
    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    But do you see it with your own eyes in person, or do you see it with your own eyes via social media?

    Comparing the availability of videos of incidents with any points in history beyond the last few years is utterly pointless. And having lived and worked in various areas in London myself, I certainly haven't seen a rise in crime in person.
    Shoplifting is off the dial, and it seems to go unreported, and I’ve seen it surge from nowhere, and I’ve seen it get violent several times

    Indeed London feels more violent now - to me - than it has for a decade or two; tho it felt a lot worse in the grotty early-mid 80s. Purely anecdotal (apart from the shoplifting, which I have witnessed)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,334
    edited August 3
    kyf_100 said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Go have a crywank over Brexit you mug. With that twat with the top hat.

    This is just blatant criminality. All the perps should be arrested, prosecuted and if found guilty suffer the consequences.

    It does not diminish concerns as to the direction of the country people may have.
    Is it past the lagershed already?

    On a day like today, with everything that's going on, a little bit less anger in the air can't hurt.
    Indeed, some people are still furious over the failure of Brexit.

    Anyway, it'll soon be first bell in the second dog, and time to find that bottle of Provencal rose in the fridge and settle down with a decent book while the home grown Arran Pilots cook.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    https://www.staffordshire.police.uk/news/staffordshire/news/2024/august/update-on-stoke-on-trent-disorder/
    There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.

    We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited August 3
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.

    Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.

    If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
    wtf?

    Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?

    We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
    So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
    Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys

    it’s all too real
    It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.

    So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.

    Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.

    I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,471
    DavidL said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    I would like to believe this. But I am also conscious that we have a police force who can't be arsed to turn up when people have had a break in. Or been mugged. Who denied hundreds of young girls were being raped because they are no better than they ought to be. Or something. Who seem to have given up on road traffic offences.

    It is increasingly difficult to have confidence in recorded crime when the only point in reporting anything is to get an insurance number. Peoples perceptions are distorted by overly dramatic media coverage but do we really believe crime is falling?
    You're right that recorded crime isn't accurate, but it never really has been because of huge variations in practice, changes in the law etc. Most academics rely more on the (British) Crime Survey, which records people's experience of crime via pretty sophisticated research techniques. It's a complex picture, but the Crime Survey does indeed show a decline in crime over the last 30 years. Huge variations by category though - e.g. sexual offences up, burglary and car crime significantly down.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited August 3

    DavidL said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    I would like to believe this. But I am also conscious that we have a police force who can't be arsed to turn up when people have had a break in. Or been mugged. Who denied hundreds of young girls were being raped because they are no better than they ought to be. Or something. Who seem to have given up on road traffic offences.

    It is increasingly difficult to have confidence in recorded crime when the only point in reporting anything is to get an insurance number. Peoples perceptions are distorted by overly dramatic media coverage but do we really believe crime is falling?
    You're right that recorded crime isn't accurate, but it never really has been because of huge variations in practice, changes in the law etc. Most academics rely more on the (British) Crime Survey, which records people's experience of crime via pretty sophisticated research techniques. It's a complex picture, but the Crime Survey does indeed show a decline in crime over the last 30 years. Huge variations by category though - e.g. sexual offences up, burglary and car crime significantly down.
    You see this is when you start to have a bit of an issue. Insurance companies premiums are through the roof, certain cars you can't even get insurance because they are so many being nicked e.g. Range Rover.

    Maybe it was joy riding and now its stolen to order to ship abroad, perhaps there was a lot more joy riding, but in recent years cars stolen to order for export / ripped for parts, is a major problem.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    But do you see it with your own eyes in person, or do you see it with your own eyes via social media?

    Comparing the availability of videos of incidents with any points in history beyond the last few years is utterly pointless. And having lived and worked in various areas in London myself, I certainly haven't seen a rise in crime in person.
    Shoplifting is off the dial, and it seems to go unreported, and I’ve seen it surge from nowhere, and I’ve seen it get violent several times

    Indeed London feels more violent now - to me - than it has for a decade or two; tho it felt a lot worse in the grotty early-mid 80s. Purely anecdotal (apart from the shoplifting, which I have witnessed)
    I cannot really comment, except that it’s hard to “hide” rising violent crime from official statistics.

    What I suspect has happened is that shoplifting and low-level crimes - vandalism, flytipping - and even general social nuisance like the habit of listening to iPhones on full volume on public transport - have all escalated.

    This all gives the sense of rising menace.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509

    Police now saying no one was stabbed in Stoke.

    Total social media bollx.

    There are many videos of two guys heavily bleeding - one apparently unconscious. This may be a dispute over the word “stabbing”
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited August 3

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    But do you see it with your own eyes in person, or do you see it with your own eyes via social media?

    Comparing the availability of videos of incidents with any points in history beyond the last few years is utterly pointless. And having lived and worked in various areas in London myself, I certainly haven't seen a rise in crime in person.
    Shoplifting is off the dial, and it seems to go unreported, and I’ve seen it surge from nowhere, and I’ve seen it get violent several times

    Indeed London feels more violent now - to me - than it has for a decade or two; tho it felt a lot worse in the grotty early-mid 80s. Purely anecdotal (apart from the shoplifting, which I have witnessed)
    I cannot really comment, except that it’s hard to “hide” rising violent crime from official statistics.

    What I suspect has happened is that shoplifting and low-level crimes - vandalism, flytipping - and even general social nuisance like the habit of listening to iPhones on full volume on public transport - have all escalated.

    This all gives the sense of rising menace.
    Overall, the police recorded 2.1 million offences of violence against the person in the year ending March 2023. This was a 20% rise compared with the pre-coronavirus pandemic year ending March 2020 (1.8 million offences) and a slight increase (1%) compared with the year ending March 2022. Violence with injury was 6% higher (573,791 offences) than levels recorded in the year ending March 2020 (540,870 offences). In addition, violence without injury increased by 14% to 828,673 offences compared with the year ending March 2020 (728,265 offences).

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023#:~:text=This was a 20% rise,March 2020 (540,870 offences).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited August 3
    One thing we know is that early 2010s, knife crime was mainly a London thing, its supposedly down a little bit in London, but its now widespread across the country, most likely driven by county lines. I did post a chart the other day that showed the changes and some towns that are traditionally nothing boring towns the rise is really large.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,416

    Sandpit said:

    Anyone else watching Poland and Italy playing volleyball? Amazing to watch.

    This is a very different sport to what I played at school.

    No. I turned on and yet again it is the BBC with a few people in a studio discussing sport.
    £3.99 for a month of Disco+ for the Olympics. Get your chequebook out!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,471

    DavidL said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    I would like to believe this. But I am also conscious that we have a police force who can't be arsed to turn up when people have had a break in. Or been mugged. Who denied hundreds of young girls were being raped because they are no better than they ought to be. Or something. Who seem to have given up on road traffic offences.

    It is increasingly difficult to have confidence in recorded crime when the only point in reporting anything is to get an insurance number. Peoples perceptions are distorted by overly dramatic media coverage but do we really believe crime is falling?
    You're right that recorded crime isn't accurate, but it never really has been because of huge variations in practice, changes in the law etc. Most academics rely more on the (British) Crime Survey, which records people's experience of crime via pretty sophisticated research techniques. It's a complex picture, but the Crime Survey does indeed show a decline in crime over the last 30 years. Huge variations by category though - e.g. sexual offences up, burglary and car crime significantly down.
    You see this is when you start to have a bit of an issue. Insurance companies premiums are through the roof, certain cars you can't even get insurance because they are so many being nicked e.g. Range Rover.

    Maybe it was joy riding and now its stolen to order to ship abroad, perhaps there was a lot more joy riding, but in recent years cars stolen to order for export / ripped for parts, is a major problem.
    I think it's theft from, rather than of, cars that's fallen the most. I remember my car being broken into several times in the 90s for the cassette player - nothing to nick, and/or not financially worth it, these days.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Am I the only one who really doesn't give a sh1t about how Ireland do at the Olympics? Why does the BBC get so excited every time they get a result?

    Scott_xP said:

    This is a lynching

    https://x.com/bmay/status/1819765667073056893

    Anyone claiming "legitimate concerns" can fuck right off

    Congratulations on posting that before Leon or Mister Bedfordshire.
    It’s all hideous

    We are pitching into hell
    No, we will endure, as we always do.

    Brits always smash the fascists, from Cable Street to the National Front.

    We'll smash these bunch of twats you seem eager to embolden/defend.

    I mean this with all kindness, but you're turning into a late era Plato, and I really don't want that.
    Besides anything else, the rioting is a symptom of extreme weakness rather than strength. They're lashing out because they're pitiful and impotent, and deep down they know it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited August 3

    DavidL said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    I would like to believe this. But I am also conscious that we have a police force who can't be arsed to turn up when people have had a break in. Or been mugged. Who denied hundreds of young girls were being raped because they are no better than they ought to be. Or something. Who seem to have given up on road traffic offences.

    It is increasingly difficult to have confidence in recorded crime when the only point in reporting anything is to get an insurance number. Peoples perceptions are distorted by overly dramatic media coverage but do we really believe crime is falling?
    You're right that recorded crime isn't accurate, but it never really has been because of huge variations in practice, changes in the law etc. Most academics rely more on the (British) Crime Survey, which records people's experience of crime via pretty sophisticated research techniques. It's a complex picture, but the Crime Survey does indeed show a decline in crime over the last 30 years. Huge variations by category though - e.g. sexual offences up, burglary and car crime significantly down.
    You see this is when you start to have a bit of an issue. Insurance companies premiums are through the roof, certain cars you can't even get insurance because they are so many being nicked e.g. Range Rover.

    Maybe it was joy riding and now its stolen to order to ship abroad, perhaps there was a lot more joy riding, but in recent years cars stolen to order for export / ripped for parts, is a major problem.
    I think it's theft from, rather than of, cars that's fallen the most. I remember my car being broken into several times in the 90s for the cassette player - nothing to nick, and/or not financially worth it, these days.
    That would make sense. Nobody is nicking car stereos these days, also you might as well nick the whole car as it is so easy with keyless entry. Same as nobody really nicks tvs from people's homes.

    I think we have gone through a cycle. 80s cars were dead easy to nick. All those cosworths that would go every day. The 2000s, it started getting trickier. And then some moron thought that keyless entry and reprogrammable keys was a genius idea, along with a port in your car that anybody can plug into and talk to the internal computer.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    But do you see it with your own eyes in person, or do you see it with your own eyes via social media?

    Comparing the availability of videos of incidents with any points in history beyond the last few years is utterly pointless. And having lived and worked in various areas in London myself, I certainly haven't seen a rise in crime in person.
    Shoplifting is off the dial, and it seems to go unreported, and I’ve seen it surge from nowhere, and I’ve seen it get violent several times

    Indeed London feels more violent now - to me - than it has for a decade or two; tho it felt a lot worse in the grotty early-mid 80s. Purely anecdotal (apart from the shoplifting, which I have witnessed)
    I cannot really comment, except that it’s hard to “hide” rising violent crime from official statistics.

    What I suspect has happened is that shoplifting and low-level crimes - vandalism, flytipping - and even general social nuisance like the habit of listening to iPhones on full volume on public transport - have all escalated.

    This all gives the sense of rising menace.
    Overall, the police recorded 2.1 million offences of violence against the person in the year ending March 2023. This was a 20% rise compared with the pre-coronavirus pandemic year ending March 2020 (1.8 million offences) and a slight increase (1%) compared with the year ending March 2022. Violence with injury was 6% higher (573,791 offences) than levels recorded in the year ending March 2020 (540,870 offences). In addition, violence without injury increased by 14% to 828,673 offences compared with the year ending March 2020 (728,265 offences).

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023#:~:text=This was a 20% rise,March 2020 (540,870 offences).
    I was responding to the notion that violent crime is down. But - it would seems that it’s not down at all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.

    Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.

    If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
    wtf?

    Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?

    We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
    So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
    Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys

    it’s all too real
    It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.

    So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.

    Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.

    I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
    indeed. Fairly obvious that something bad happened to this guy. It seems to be from Stoke

    https://x.com/ryanskars/status/1819781304394695091?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    And what is happening here?

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1819765546721722495?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    There’s a zillion vids and pix
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,444

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.

    Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.

    If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
    wtf?

    Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?

    We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
    So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
    Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys

    it’s all too real
    It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.

    So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.

    Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.

    I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
    Perhaps both of you should just shut the fuck up until we know more of what is going on, instead of spreading rumours and tittle-tattle that may well be wrong, yet might have drastic effects if believed?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,036
    On a more pleasant subject: The new Boeing CEO is getting good notices: "Congratulations, Kelly Ortberg. You’ve just landed a job that is simultaneously the best and worst in Corporate America.

    Hear me out. As the next CEO of Boeing, Ortberg is taking over a once-mighty American institution that’s languishing in its dirtbag era, like a star high school quarterback who let himself go after graduation and can’t shut up about the glory days.

    There’s a laundry list of problems Ortberg will have to confront on Day One, and he’ll be operating under intense scrutiny from a rabid audience of shareholders, regulators, customers and even the FBI." source: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/01/business/boeing-new-ceo-kelly-ortberg-nightcap/index.html
    (Mostly.)

    He seems to have the right experience, from what I have read, and he has already made a good decision, to bring the headquarters back home to the Seattle area.

    (I am appalled by the pay, and the payoff, his predecessor is getting.)

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945

    Good afternoon / evening from tranquil Manhattan.

    Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?

    This is on a different scale.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited August 3
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon / evening from tranquil Manhattan.

    Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?

    This is on a different scale.
    So far it doesn't seem to have on 2010 riots level, for a couple of days that got really out of hand and authorities had totally lost control, although mainly in London, there were other major cities that were only just hanging on at times.

    We could do with some classic British summertime rain before it escalates further.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    DM_Andy said:

    https://www.staffordshire.police.uk/news/staffordshire/news/2024/august/update-on-stoke-on-trent-disorder/

    There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.

    We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
    https://youtu.be/Sh3h_3nrOQU?feature=shared&t=42

    An eyewitness report in the link above. A group of 'English lads' were on one side of the street throwing bricks, then a group of 'Muslim lads' appeared down the street. One person was hit on the head with a hammer, who you can see in the background of the video. He appears to be 'up' (i.e. not dead or unconscious) by the end of the video.

    So while it's entirely wrong to say there are Muslims going round stabbing 'English' on the streets, as some people are saying on Twitter, today hasn't exactly been a day of racial harmony, either.

    I fear things will escalate after nightfall.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    edited August 3
    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon / evening from tranquil Manhattan.

    Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?

    This is on a different scale.
    It’s very hard to tell from afar.
    You really do lose touch of things even if, when I lived in London, I wouldn’t have first hand experience of a race riot.

    Another example, I cannot understand at all why a Jenrick appears to be front-runner to take over the Conservatives. From this distance he appears to be electoral kryptonite.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,036
    The two stranded American astronauts make me think that NASA officials should read Heinlein's short story, "Delilah and the Space-Rigger", especially the very end.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    DavidL said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    And no one tries ti excuse or minimise Islamist violence??? Have you heard of Jeremy Corbyn? Seen any of these pro Palestinian marches?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#main-points

    Violent crime is down 28% in England and and Wales since the pandemic (2020). Ofcourse immigration has surged massively since then, including the small boats.

    Total crime down 17%.

    We might feel like it's going up but we do need to use statistics and fact. Two people can have different feelings about the same topic.

    Immigration itself is not increasing crime. Despite pockets of crime committed by people if colour

    I would like to believe this. But I am also conscious that we have a police force who can't be arsed to turn up when people have had a break in. Or been mugged. Who denied hundreds of young girls were being raped because they are no better than they ought to be. Or something. Who seem to have given up on road traffic offences.

    It is increasingly difficult to have confidence in recorded crime when the only point in reporting anything is to get an insurance number. Peoples perceptions are distorted by overly dramatic media coverage but do we really believe crime is falling?
    I highly doubt shops are reporting all the shop lifting. People certainly aren't reporting every time they get their phone snatched.

    The big one that definitely isn't getting picked up, fraud.

    I was a "victim" (I didn't personally lose money, other people did) of a common insurance scam, where people sell insurance online to mostly young people and they register the insurance using details of somebody else and use a stolen credit card. I was put on 10+ vehicles in a week across different insurances. I of course queried this and the insurance companies just shrugged and said yeah yeah, happens every day, all sorted, and I said, do I need to ring the police etc, no no, just report it to fraud non-profit (I can't remember name off the top of my head). I did, never got a response.

    It is why we have the British Crime Survey, but we have seen how much trouble polling companies have getting representative samples these days.
    Yes, I have reservations about the British Crime Survey too.

    A friend of mine who is quite vulnerable had people come to his door and offer to cut his hedges for him. They did about 1.5 hrs work and charged him £500. They demanded a cheque off him to ensure that they were going to come back in October to complete the work, supposedly. He got the cheque stopped and told them to go away (other words may have been used) when they came back to complain about that. No police involvement at any time. What's the point?

    I am not sure that he would have reported himself of being the victim of fraud to the BCS either, if anyone had ever asked. But it was.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509
    edited August 3

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    Anybody who breaks the law should be arrested. But what you are also witnessing in the UK right now is a concerted & most likely coordinated effort by the elite class to inflate "far right" to stigmatise & silence millions of ordinary people who object to mass immigration and its effects.
    4:22 PM · Aug 3, 2024
    55K Views"

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1819755616186859748

    No, what we are seeing is calling people far right who attack mosques, Uber drivers, people with brown skin walking down the road, Black people on buses.

    The murder was not even an migrant. And on top of all this violent crime is down despite record immigration levels. Migrants committ fewer crimes than natives.

    So why protest mass migration now? Why conflate the issue of the grisly murders with the issue of mass migration? A lot of people are not dealing with the facts and it is brown and black people that will pay the price

    But thing I know if the far right wants fight we minorities will not take things lying down! Our parents have fought way to hard to go backwards now.
    Is violent crime down? I really want to believe this but I have a hard time reconciling the data with what I see with my own eyes in london
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    But do you see it with your own eyes in person, or do you see it with your own eyes via social media?

    Comparing the availability of videos of incidents with any points in history beyond the last few years is utterly pointless. And having lived and worked in various areas in London myself, I certainly haven't seen a rise in crime in person.
    Shoplifting is off the dial, and it seems to go unreported, and I’ve seen it surge from nowhere, and I’ve seen it get violent several times

    Indeed London feels more violent now - to me - than it has for a decade or two; tho it felt a lot worse in the grotty early-mid 80s. Purely anecdotal (apart from the shoplifting, which I have witnessed)
    I cannot really comment, except that it’s hard to “hide” rising violent crime from official statistics.

    What I suspect has happened is that shoplifting and low-level crimes - vandalism, flytipping - and even general social nuisance like the habit of listening to iPhones on full volume on public transport - have all escalated.

    This all gives the sense of rising menace.
    Overall, the police recorded 2.1 million offences of violence against the person in the year ending March 2023. This was a 20% rise compared with the pre-coronavirus pandemic year ending March 2020 (1.8 million offences) and a slight increase (1%) compared with the year ending March 2022. Violence with injury was 6% higher (573,791 offences) than levels recorded in the year ending March 2020 (540,870 offences). In addition, violence without injury increased by 14% to 828,673 offences compared with the year ending March 2020 (728,265 offences).

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2023#:~:text=This was a 20% rise,March 2020 (540,870 offences).
    I was responding to the notion that violent crime is down. But - it would seems that it’s not down at all.
    Yes, that fits with my perception that it is rising somewhat

    Also, how much crime goes unreported. I was technically “mugged” about a year ago, a kid came swanning by on a pushbike and plucked my iPhone from my foolish hands (googling as I walked). I guess that is technically a violent crime but it didn’t feel violent, I just felt like a twonk for being robbed so easily

    And of course I didn’t go to the cops. What would they do. I had insurance. Vodafone replaced it next day

    So a crime happened and no one notes it down
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,808
    Foxy said:

    Single person turns up to protest in Doncaster.

    About a dozen of the nazi scum in Leicester, kettled by about 30 cops, over 100 counter demonstrators, but all quite peaceable at the moment. The usual shoppers (including me) drifting by. Sidewalk diners and folks dressed for weddings just 50 yards away unbothered.




    What on earth is a 'sidewalk diner'?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509
    kyf_100 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    https://www.staffordshire.police.uk/news/staffordshire/news/2024/august/update-on-stoke-on-trent-disorder/

    There is growing speculation that a stabbing has taken place as a result of the disorder today. We can confirm this information is false and no stabbings have been reported to police or emergency responders, despite videos fuelling speculation on social media.

    We can confirm a man was injured after being hit by a blunt object that was thrown. His injuries are not thought to be serious and he has been taken to hospital for treatment.
    https://youtu.be/Sh3h_3nrOQU?feature=shared&t=42

    An eyewitness report in the link above. A group of 'English lads' were on one side of the street throwing bricks, then a group of 'Muslim lads' appeared down the street. One person was hit on the head with a hammer, who you can see in the background of the video. He appears to be 'up' (i.e. not dead or unconscious) by the end of the video.

    So while it's entirely wrong to say there are Muslims going round stabbing 'English' on the streets, as some people are saying on Twitter, today hasn't exactly been a day of racial harmony, either.

    I fear things will escalate after nightfall.

    Turns out it was a bit premature to say “Starmer and Cooper have handled this really well”
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,444
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    It appears there has been an incident at the protest in Stoke.

    Appears that two white youths have been stabbed and allegedly others attacked with axes and hammers.

    If you want to know more see Twix for a less cautious summary.
    wtf?

    Remember when I was derided for predicting civil disorder and maybe even race war?

    We are going to a very very very dark place. We are right on the abyss. I hope this news report is completely wrong
    So not surprised that the two of you are creaming yourselves over fake news on social media. Sad.
    Sadly, it’s not fake. Not the white thugs beating up the black guy and not the Muslim thugs stabbing the white guys

    it’s all too real
    It appears that the severe head injuries inflicted on the two gentlemen (of which there is primae facie video evidence) were inflicted with weapons other than insertion of knives.

    So not fake news other than in the technicality sense.

    Which is why was cautious and said that it *appears* that they had been stabbed rather than saying they had been as the twitter reports accompanying the videos.

    I also refrained from speculating as to who the perpetrators were.
    indeed. Fairly obvious that something bad happened to this guy. It seems to be from Stoke

    https://x.com/ryanskars/status/1819781304394695091?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    And what is happening here?

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1819765546721722495?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg

    There’s a zillion vids and pix
    Thanks for your 'reportage' from France.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840
    "I know this definitely happened cos some random bloke/woman/bot posted a video on Twitter!!!" Soon we'll be reporting as fact the unsubstantiated claims of Sharon on the local Facebook group, who got the 'facts' from her sister's mate whose kids go to the same school as somebody whose cousin saw it happen. Really.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    Starmer's not going to get his family holiday at the end of next week is he?

    Well sometime next week we are likely to see Israel and Iran having a real go at each other. So yeah Starmer might be busy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,509

    Andy_JS said:

    Good afternoon / evening from tranquil Manhattan.

    Haven’t there always been sporadic outbursts from young white yobs in Britain? Or do we think this daily kick-off is something new, perhaps super-charged by social media?

    This is on a different scale.
    So far it doesn't seem to have on 2010 riots level, for a couple of days that got really out of hand and authorities had totally lost control, although mainly in London, there were other major cities that were only just hanging on at times.

    We could do with some classic British summertime rain before it escalates further.
    But it’s much much worse than the plasma screen riots, in one way, because this is rioting BETWEEN two sides, with major racial/sectarian elements

    The plasma screen riots simply needed the coppers to get a grip - and they did, It was mindless stupidity and - belatedly - it was crushed, Sadly this is of a different level of seriousness as it has such potential for escalation, and now a Rubicon has been crossed

    The 2010 riots felt surreal; this feels darkly ominous
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,090
    DM_Andy said:


    darkage said:

    The probability is that these protests will just burn themselves out, for the same reason that all protests are futile: people get identified due to technology then end up with really serious consequences in their lives. Sympathisers will not join in, the way they may have done historically.

    What I predict will happen is the response from government will just be along the lines of 'far right terrorism is the greatest challenge of our generation, worse even than Islamist terrorism', and then far right activists will be jailed for decades and given 'control' orders etc, similar to what as happens to Islamic terrorists. But I would be surprised if this solves the problem, I would guess it makes things worse.

    It isn't an either/or, both Islamic and Far-Right terrorism is a danger to our democratic society and we need to defend ourselves against both. The only difference between the two ideologies is that some otherwise respectable people seek to excuse and minimise the far-right.

    The important thing is the difference between them

    One group is a bunch of violent thugs who base their thuggery, sociopathy and hatred on misunderstanding books they haven’t read and history that is fictional.

    The other….

    I can remember plenty of people telling me the “we must condemn but understand the grievances thing” about Capn. Hooky and his crew.
This discussion has been closed.