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Election night guide – politicalbetting.com

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  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,975
    agingjb2 said:

    No reversal of Brexit in Starmer's lifetime is simply realistic. There is no way the EU will accept an application to rejoin on any terms that the UK could consider.

    So we continue to do deals selling sheep to Australia and poodles to South Africa
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212
    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    What is the opposite of brisk?

    The preferred term is sluggish
    Torpid.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    The majority size is going to be astonishing for Labour's vote share. I mean I know 2005 was the epitome of that previously but this will take it to another level.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    I’m going to treat myself to a little bottle of supermarket whisky for tonights celebrations before Keith taxes my income into oblivion. Any suggestions?

    If it's not a single malt, then Famous Grouse perhaps.
    Black Label is drinkable
    Chivas Regal do some decent aged blends.
    Gollowgate is relatively very young, though.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    edited July 4

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    ToryJim said:

    eek said:

    The telegraph have an article saying Reform will win 13 seats.

    If that's the case who is going to train those MPs to know what to do - i.e. how to run their office and provide support to their constituents...

    I doubt they will win that many. Also if Nigel does take Clacton there has to be a reasonable chance that he’s found in breach of Parliamentary rules triggering a recall effort before long.
    It is interesting that the Welsh labour government is to introduce a law in the Senedd to make it illegal to lie

    There will be few if any politicians left !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    citation needed
    No citation possible. The "Welsh labour government" have not done this - its every other party forcing it through. Labour opposed it

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2gme2y98no
    Not quite

    Labour are opposed to Plaids version, so are bringing forward their own
    A bill backed by your Conservatives and opposed by Labour. Only you could find a way to spin that as something being done by the Welsh labour government.
    You are talking nonsense and maybe you will believe the Guardian


    Tue 2 Jul 2024 21.06 BST

    Welsh government commits to making lying in politics illegal
    Labour administration says ‘globally pioneering’ legislation will be brought in before next Senedd elections in 2026

    The Labour-led Welsh government has committed to introduce “globally pioneering” legislation that would in effect make lying in politics there illegal.

    Members of the Senedd described it as a historic moment that would combat the “existential threat” that lying in politics poses to democracy.

    After a passionate and dramatic debate in the Welsh parliament on Tuesday evening, the government’s counsel general, Mick Antoniw, said the legislation would be introduced before the next Welsh elections in two years’ time.

    He said: “The Welsh government will bring forward legislation before 2026 for the disqualification of members and candidates found guilty of deliberate deception through an independent judicial process.”

    None of that quote says that the WG originated the bill. Simply that it is being brought in as a result of a vote in the Senedd.

    You're doing the Welsh equivalent of claiming that the SNP government brought in the bill for the Edinburgh trams.
    Isn't attempting to assign responsibility for the trams regraded as criminal slander?
    Defamation, it's called in Scotland - if it were, then OGH would have been hearing from the lawyers long ago, given how many PBers are convinced the trams were a SNP idea. AQs opposed to having it forced on them by all the other parties. Minority government, remember, despite the equally frequent PBcanard.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    I’m going to treat myself to a little bottle of supermarket whisky for tonights celebrations before Keith taxes my income into oblivion. Any suggestions?

    If it's not a single malt, then Famous Grouse perhaps.
    Black Label is drinkable
    My go-to when I still drank. Can't go wrong with it; better than single malts in the same bracket.

    Like getting an excellent crement or cava for the same price as a bargain basement hydrochloric champers.
  • Ghedebrav said:

    Cookie said:

    nico679 said:

    Are the Greens really going to get 9% . I just can’t see it myself .

    Unexpected Green voters are everywhere.
    My daughter explained the reason to me yesterday: tuition fees.
    Makes perfect sense really. All the other parties are charging half a generation £50k plus to start adulthood. The Green Party isn't.

    Personally I think the Greens are a binch of incoherent batshit crazy extreme culture warriors. But maybe £50k plus is rather more important to people.
    There are normal people too. Like, er me, and double-er, Dura Ace. Oh, and triple-er - BJO.

    OK, point taken. Any other Green PBers?
    Yup. I'd say I'm normal-ish.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    I’m going to treat myself to a little bottle of supermarket whisky for tonights celebrations before Keith taxes my income into oblivion. Any suggestions?

    If it's not a single malt, then Famous Grouse perhaps.
    Black Label is drinkable
    Morning, Malky! Still sunny if windy here on the east side.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    Nunu5 said:

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1808777578666172779

    Labour down 5 with ipsos. Are the polls herding?

    I'm calling bullsh1t on SNP on 6%... they didn't quite get 4% in 2019 and that equated to 45% in Scotland. So they'd need to be on at least two-thirds of the vote north of the border!
    It does suggest that IPSOS might be picking up a late Lab->SNP swing in Scotland though.
    The recent Scotland-only poll indicated SNP support stable with Labour dipping, but a slight uptick for Tories and Libs. This is not necessarily good news for SNP as it could reflect unionist tactical voting. But tbh its all MOE.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Ghedebrav said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    I’m going to treat myself to a little bottle of supermarket whisky for tonights celebrations before Keith taxes my income into oblivion. Any suggestions?

    If it's not a single malt, then Famous Grouse perhaps.
    Black Label is drinkable
    My go-to when I still drank. Can't go wrong with it; better than single malts in the same bracket.

    Like getting an excellent crement or cava for the same price as a bargain basement hydrochloric champers.
    Grouse is my family equivalent - but I suddenly realise I don't know if they sell it to the hordes beyond the southern wall.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1808774969142186411


    Keiran Pedley
    @keiranpedley
    🚨
    @IpsosUK
    FINAL CALL: Labour lead at 18 / Tories face historic defeat / Lab share drops in final week. 🚨

    Labour 37% (-5)
    Conservatives 19% (nc)
    Reform UK 15% (nc)
    Lib Dems 11% (nc)
    Greens 9% (+2)

    No reversal of Brexit in Keir's lifetime. Incredible when over 60% of the country now want it. Perhaps he really will be as tone deaf as some have predicted
    If you ask the Corbynites, all Starmer's ever done is break promises.

    We just need to be patient. They'll go to the EU to try and ameliorate the damage. Maybe they'll have some successes. But the inexorable desire of a majority those under 60 to get back what they've lost, and to get back for their kids, will become too electorally powerful to ignore. It'll take some time, and more wasted years, but we'll get there.

    Brexit is forever sullied with the last 14 years. Starmer is nothing if not pragmatic.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    148grss said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Cookie said:

    nico679 said:

    Are the Greens really going to get 9% . I just can’t see it myself .

    Unexpected Green voters are everywhere.
    My daughter explained the reason to me yesterday: tuition fees.
    Makes perfect sense really. All the other parties are charging half a generation £50k plus to start adulthood. The Green Party isn't.

    Personally I think the Greens are a binch of incoherent batshit crazy extreme culture warriors. But maybe £50k plus is rather more important to people.
    There are normal people too. Like, er me, and double-er, Dura Ace. Oh, and triple-er - BJO.

    OK, point taken. Any other Green PBers?
    I've gone back to voting for losers - my last two GE votes were tactical for the LDs, but because Daisy is going to hold her seat easily, I want to make sure I contribute to our increase in short money.
    @Cookie would you vote to pay 9% more tax?
    Under a proper PR system I'd expect the big winners to be Greens, PC and Reform, big losers Labour and Conservatives with SNP and LDs flat.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    I’m going to treat myself to a little bottle of supermarket whisky for tonights celebrations before Keith taxes my income into oblivion. Any suggestions?

    If it's not a single malt, then Famous Grouse perhaps.
    Black Label is drinkable
    Morning, Malky! Still sunny if windy here on the east side.
    Likewise the NE coast!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Yes, I heard that Aberdeenshire Council cuts are causing a lot of upset. Do you think it will affect how people vote? BTW Good luck!
    Knobhead SNP are trying to make capital of it. Then when its pointed out some of the cuts are directly from their government they try and claim they are against the cuts whilst imploring everyone to vote for the people making the cuts to protest agaist the cuts.

    It isn't party political though. Its Tory/LD in the shire and SNP/LD in the city. Both councils are broke due to Holyrood cuts and both are making terrible cuts. The issue is a lack of cash from government. The SNP say INDEPENDENCE as the cure. But Scotland gets more cash per head than any other part of the UK. The money is there, what are they wasting it on?

    The whole funding model for local government is broken. That is the problem. Across the whole UK. Government has decided that it can be cut to the bone so that Tories can then blame the council if its Labour and deflect if its Tory. Wazzocks.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,168

    Nunu5 said:

    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1808777578666172779

    Labour down 5 with ipsos. Are the polls herding?

    I'm calling bullsh1t on SNP on 6%... they didn't quite get 4% in 2019 and that equated to 45% in Scotland. So they'd need to be on at least two-thirds of the vote north of the border!
    It does suggest that IPSOS might be picking up a late Lab->SNP swing in Scotland though.
    Savanta, Opinium and We Think had them on 2% on basically the same polling dates, with Survation 3% and Norstat 4%.

    It's just that GB-wide polls are useless on SNP share. The margin of error is enormous as they tend to be asking fewer than 100 people in Scotland, and there is no balancing within that sample (the adjustment will be GB-wide, not of subsamples).

    I just find it amusing when a poll comes up with a mad SNP number - if I were them, I'd not have put it in the tweet as it undermines the overall credibility - hide it in the tables!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,132
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    I’m going to treat myself to a little bottle of supermarket whisky for tonights celebrations before Keith taxes my income into oblivion. Any suggestions?

    If it's not a single malt, then Famous Grouse perhaps.
    Black Label is drinkable
    Morning, Malky! Still sunny if windy here on the east side.
    I'm sticking to beer and popcorn and black coffee later on.

    If I start on whisky I'll not make 2am!!!
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855

    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1808774969142186411


    Keiran Pedley
    @keiranpedley
    🚨
    @IpsosUK
    FINAL CALL: Labour lead at 18 / Tories face historic defeat / Lab share drops in final week. 🚨

    Labour 37% (-5)
    Conservatives 19% (nc)
    Reform UK 15% (nc)
    Lib Dems 11% (nc)
    Greens 9% (+2)

    No reversal of Brexit in Keir's lifetime. Incredible when over 60% of the country now want it. Perhaps he really will be as tone deaf as some have predicted
    If you ask the Corbynites, all Starmer's ever done is break promises.

    We just need to be patient. They'll go to the EU to try and ameliorate the damage. Maybe they'll have some successes. But the inexorable desire of a majority those under 60 to get back what they've lost, and to get back for their kids, will become too electorally powerful to ignore. It'll take some time, and more wasted years, but we'll get there.

    Brexit is forever sullied with the last 14 years. Starmer is nothing if not pragmatic.
    Given the state of French and German domestic politics at the moment, a cautious approach is advisable
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,984
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    What is the opposite of brisk?

    The preferred term is sluggish
    Torpid.
    Here, voters are listlessly being crossed off the list
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,641
    Roger said:

    agingjb2 said:

    No reversal of Brexit in Starmer's lifetime is simply realistic. There is no way the EU will accept an application to rejoin on any terms that the UK could consider.

    So we continue to do deals selling sheep to Australia and poodles to South Africa
    You need to see how Starmer handles the meeting in London of Macron's outer EU grouping proposals as that is likely to be the nearest we get to a good relationship with EU both in trading and cooperation whilst not being a member
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,422

    Site notice.

    For today and tomorrow I am lifting the one photo a day limit but on the following conditions.

    1) Only one photo per post

    2) The extra photo allowance must be election related. So no photos of what you had for lunch.

    My images to remember from this election are so well known there is no need to post them.

    Rishi in the rain.
    Ange & Gordo's love-in video.
    He's fallen in the water.
    Nige speaking as a Putin banner was lowered behind him.
    Boris gone to seed.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    If the Greens get anywhere near the 7% they seem to be averaging in polls that will be a huge turnup for the books. They never get more than about 3% at generals. On the other side if Reform get anything like mid to high teens then we will surely have the highest combined vote share for angry edge-case parties.

    In this context, and with major two party votes collapsing to the lowest ever, a Lib Dem vote share of 11 or 12% really isn't very impressive. The numbers suggest a degree of revolutionary ferment out there which I'd really not picked up before the campaign. It seemed rather that the public were keen on a period of no-drama competent governance after the chaos of the last 7 years. It's also rather out of kilter with polling on the main issues: economy, inflation, NHS etc. with immigration fairly high but not at the top, and topics like Gaza way down.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Cookie said:

    nico679 said:

    Are the Greens really going to get 9% . I just can’t see it myself .

    Unexpected Green voters are everywhere.
    My daughter explained the reason to me yesterday: tuition fees.
    Makes perfect sense really. All the other parties are charging half a generation £50k plus to start adulthood. The Green Party isn't.

    Personally I think the Greens are a binch of incoherent batshit crazy extreme culture warriors. But maybe £50k plus is rather more important to people.
    There are normal people too. Like, er me, and double-er, Dura Ace. Oh, and triple-er - BJO.

    OK, point taken. Any other Green PBers?
    I'm just off with the dog to cast a tactical Green
    Where do you intend to cast the poor unfortunate ?
    Maybe a new euphemism for what dog owners pick up in a green bag?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    Ghedebrav said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1808774969142186411


    Keiran Pedley
    @keiranpedley
    🚨
    @IpsosUK
    FINAL CALL: Labour lead at 18 / Tories face historic defeat / Lab share drops in final week. 🚨

    Labour 37% (-5)
    Conservatives 19% (nc)
    Reform UK 15% (nc)
    Lib Dems 11% (nc)
    Greens 9% (+2)

    EC (I know) gives:

    Con 69
    Lab 462
    LD 71
    Ref 7
    Green 3
    SNP 15
    PC 3
    Others 20

    on that Ipsos.
    Incredible how routine the sub-20s are for then Tories. I still feel they are being somehow understated, but am running out of evidential basis for it.
    The only pollsters who put the Tories below 20% in their final polls are:
    Ipsos
    People Polling
    Lord Ashcroft
    So there's a definite firming up of Tory support in the closing stages.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Has anyone suggested the aggressive ultra extremist method to save the library?

    AKA people using it?
    We ARE using it. The council budget keeps getting cut year on year as their costs on statutory services goes up. They're faced with the need to provide library services but not being able to afford to switch the lights on. Our library is down to 6 hours a week as it is.

    Officers (its always the officers) genuinely asking us if there are other places that could be used to put a library. There are not. The fightback is by pushing them to provide the statutory services that have already been cut such as youth services, and put them into the building.

    A bit of cash spent - to replace all the florescent lights with LEDs and replace the storage heaters with energy efficient heat pump - would slash operating costs. But they don't have the money to invest in that either.

    This isn't even party political at a micro scale - every council is slashing services because the system itself is broken. Which is why I am running for election - we need to make a more fundamental change than tinkering around the edges. What legacy are we bequeathing to my kids when everything we once had it being scrapped because we can't afford it? How can we afford not to have a bus service or libraries or youth work or public toilets or a GP surgery with GPs in it or the police?

    Bloody Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
    Apparently true of SNPers too. Council funding is devolved. Just not a priority at Holyrood.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Yes, I heard that Aberdeenshire Council cuts are causing a lot of upset. Do you think it will affect how people vote? BTW Good luck!
    Library fact: did you know when volunteers step in to run libraries on behalf of local authorities, they no longer have to pay into the PLR (Public Lending Right pool) and so authors lose any income from borrowed books.

    Average author earnings dropped 11% in real terms between 2019 and 2021 and that was within a drop of 60% in real terms since 2006.
    Eeek! What about the ebooks? I'm now an avid user of Libby, am I impoverishing authors?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915

    Site notice.

    For today and tomorrow I am lifting the one photo a day limit but on the following conditions.

    1) Only one photo per post

    2) The extra photo allowance must be election related. So no photos of what you had for lunch.

    I think the one per day policy has been really good, and we get a number of very interesting piccies.

    Especially from ... (That's enough. Ed)

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,155
    Duty done, partner's postal vote also as she's working all day in another polling station. Quite busy.

    Last window allegiance count (from a starting point of zero) on the way to polling station, one Ceasefire Now and one Vote Green plus Palestine flag.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Young people today.

    "Emma Raducanu says she did not know general election vote was on Thursday

    At a press conference, Raducanu was asked if she would vote before practising on Thursday, and if she would keep an eye on the general election in the evening. “No,” she replied, smiling. “I think I’ll have a lie-in, then I’ll come to practise.

    “I didn’t even know it was tomorrow, to be honest! Thanks for letting me know.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/03/emma-raducanu-claims-ignorance-of-general-election-and-says-she-will-lie-in

    Shame, because she’d obviously be a Lib Dem.
    Nah she is clearly Tory as fuck. The fact she is saying nowt is indicative of a wider trend.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TimS said:

    If the Greens get anywhere near the 7% they seem to be averaging in polls that will be a huge turnup for the books. They never get more than about 3% at generals. On the other side if Reform get anything like mid to high teens then we will surely have the highest combined vote share for angry edge-case parties.

    In this context, and with major two party votes collapsing to the lowest ever, a Lib Dem vote share of 11 or 12% really isn't very impressive. The numbers suggest a degree of revolutionary ferment out there which I'd really not picked up before the campaign. It seemed rather that the public were keen on a period of no-drama competent governance after the chaos of the last 7 years. It's also rather out of kilter with polling on the main issues: economy, inflation, NHS etc. with immigration fairly high but not at the top, and topics like Gaza way down.

    You’ve reminded me I’ve got to take a large root vegetable to the South African rugby training camp this afternoon, after I lunch at the Groucho

    Its a chore but it’s also a massive turnip for the Boks
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Trying to reply to someone and vanilla's gone mental - telling me the body of the post on 1 character too short and I cannot sort it - so this post is the probably the fruitless attempt at clearing whatever gremlin has infected my tech...

    If the post you're replying to has the less than symbol in it, then Vanilla doesn't like that. Oddly enough its OK to post it in your own post, but not to quote it.

    If that's the glitch, I typically replace the symbol with the words less than, dislike changing what someone else has written but it doesn't change the meaning and simply means Vanilla doesn't mistake what they wrote for code.
    Good point. Sorry that may have been my original post.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Dopermean said:

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Yes, I heard that Aberdeenshire Council cuts are causing a lot of upset. Do you think it will affect how people vote? BTW Good luck!
    Library fact: did you know when volunteers step in to run libraries on behalf of local authorities, they no longer have to pay into the PLR (Public Lending Right pool) and so authors lose any income from borrowed books.

    Average author earnings dropped 11% in real terms between 2019 and 2021 and that was within a drop of 60% in real terms since 2006.
    Eeek! What about the ebooks? I'm now an avid user of Libby, am I impoverishing authors?
    YES
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,195
    Ghedebrav said:

    Cookie said:

    nico679 said:

    Are the Greens really going to get 9% . I just can’t see it myself .

    Unexpected Green voters are everywhere.
    My daughter explained the reason to me yesterday: tuition fees.
    Makes perfect sense really. All the other parties are charging half a generation £50k plus to start adulthood. The Green Party isn't.

    Personally I think the Greens are a binch of incoherent batshit crazy extreme culture warriors. But maybe £50k plus is rather more important to people.
    There are normal people too. Like, er me, and double-er, Dura Ace. Oh, and triple-er - BJO.

    OK, point taken. Any other Green PBers?
    My eco-authoritarian wife. But I persuaded her to vote Labour to get rid of Sir Philip Davies and help him win his bet.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Tres said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Young people today.

    "Emma Raducanu says she did not know general election vote was on Thursday

    At a press conference, Raducanu was asked if she would vote before practising on Thursday, and if she would keep an eye on the general election in the evening. “No,” she replied, smiling. “I think I’ll have a lie-in, then I’ll come to practise.

    “I didn’t even know it was tomorrow, to be honest! Thanks for letting me know.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/03/emma-raducanu-claims-ignorance-of-general-election-and-says-she-will-lie-in

    Shame, because she’d obviously be a Lib Dem.
    Nah she is clearly Tory as fuck. The fact she is saying nowt is indicative of a wider trend.
    Romanian father - surely a remainer?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Dopermean said:

    148grss said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Cookie said:

    nico679 said:

    Are the Greens really going to get 9% . I just can’t see it myself .

    Unexpected Green voters are everywhere.
    My daughter explained the reason to me yesterday: tuition fees.
    Makes perfect sense really. All the other parties are charging half a generation £50k plus to start adulthood. The Green Party isn't.

    Personally I think the Greens are a binch of incoherent batshit crazy extreme culture warriors. But maybe £50k plus is rather more important to people.
    There are normal people too. Like, er me, and double-er, Dura Ace. Oh, and triple-er - BJO.

    OK, point taken. Any other Green PBers?
    I've gone back to voting for losers - my last two GE votes were tactical for the LDs, but because Daisy is going to hold her seat easily, I want to make sure I contribute to our increase in short money.
    @Cookie would you vote to pay 9% more tax?
    Under a proper PR system I'd expect the big winners to be Greens, PC and Reform, big losers Labour and Conservatives with SNP and LDs flat.
    I saw that polling about voters who would say they'd they be happy to pay more in tax if they knew it went to the NHS etc. It was a pleasant read to see that the idea we are all individuals fighting over resources and there is no such thing as society is more pessimistic than what most people actually feel.

    I do feel that we as a body politic could learn something from our Scandi neighbours - it often seems like they view taxation for services as a baseline good and have been less infected by the notion that "scroungers" are "taking advantage" of the system. As someone who earns, after tax, roughly £2k a month - seeing that go down by around £100 a month for the safety of knowing the investment will go into NHS, public transport, public housing, sustainable energy and infrastructure etc. would be a no brainer for me.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,915

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Yes, I heard that Aberdeenshire Council cuts are causing a lot of upset. Do you think it will affect how people vote? BTW Good luck!
    Knobhead SNP are trying to make capital of it. Then when its pointed out some of the cuts are directly from their government they try and claim they are against the cuts whilst imploring everyone to vote for the people making the cuts to protest agaist the cuts.

    It isn't party political though. Its Tory/LD in the shire and SNP/LD in the city. Both councils are broke due to Holyrood cuts and both are making terrible cuts. The issue is a lack of cash from government. The SNP say INDEPENDENCE as the cure. But Scotland gets more cash per head than any other part of the UK. The money is there, what are they wasting it on?

    The whole funding model for local government is broken. That is the problem. Across the whole UK. Government has decided that it can be cut to the bone so that Tories can then blame the council if its Labour and deflect if its Tory. Wazzocks.
    On detail - does local gov funding (or lack of funding) in England get reflected in Barnet Consequentials? If so I assume it is not hypothecated.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,212

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Yes, I heard that Aberdeenshire Council cuts are causing a lot of upset. Do you think it will affect how people vote? BTW Good luck!
    Knobhead SNP are trying to make capital of it. Then when its pointed out some of the cuts are directly from their government they try and claim they are against the cuts whilst imploring everyone to vote for the people making the cuts to protest agaist the cuts.

    It isn't party political though. Its Tory/LD in the shire and SNP/LD in the city. Both councils are broke due to Holyrood cuts and both are making terrible cuts. The issue is a lack of cash from government. The SNP say INDEPENDENCE as the cure. But Scotland gets more cash per head than any other part of the UK. The money is there, what are they wasting it on?

    The whole funding model for local government is broken. That is the problem. Across the whole UK. Government has decided that it can be cut to the bone so that Tories can then blame the council if its Labour and deflect if its Tory. Wazzocks.
    A political wheeze which started during Thatcher's time, and carried on by pretty well every government since.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    If the Greens get anywhere near the 7% they seem to be averaging in polls that will be a huge turnup for the books. They never get more than about 3% at generals. On the other side if Reform get anything like mid to high teens then we will surely have the highest combined vote share for angry edge-case parties.

    In this context, and with major two party votes collapsing to the lowest ever, a Lib Dem vote share of 11 or 12% really isn't very impressive. The numbers suggest a degree of revolutionary ferment out there which I'd really not picked up before the campaign. It seemed rather that the public were keen on a period of no-drama competent governance after the chaos of the last 7 years. It's also rather out of kilter with polling on the main issues: economy, inflation, NHS etc. with immigration fairly high but not at the top, and topics like Gaza way down.

    You’ve reminded me I’ve got to take a large root vegetable to the South African rugby training camp this afternoon, after I lunch at the Groucho

    Its a chore but it’s also a massive turnip for the Boks
    OK fair enough that's quite good.
  • Jim_the_LurkerJim_the_Lurker Posts: 193

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Has anyone suggested the aggressive ultra extremist method to save the library?

    AKA people using it?
    We ARE using it. The council budget keeps getting cut year on year as their costs on statutory services goes up. They're faced with the need to provide library services but not being able to afford to switch the lights on. Our library is down to 6 hours a week as it is.

    Officers (its always the officers) genuinely asking us if there are other places that could be used to put a library. There are not. The fightback is by pushing them to provide the statutory services that have already been cut such as youth services, and put them into the building.

    A bit of cash spent - to replace all the florescent lights with LEDs and replace the storage heaters with energy efficient heat pump - would slash operating costs. But they don't have the money to invest in that either.

    This isn't even party political at a micro scale - every council is slashing services because the system itself is broken. Which is why I am running for election - we need to make a more fundamental change than tinkering around the edges. What legacy are we bequeathing to my kids when everything we once had it being scrapped because we can't afford it? How can we afford not to have a bus service or libraries or youth work or public toilets or a GP surgery with GPs in it or the police?

    Bloody Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
    Yup - per capita central funding has dropped circa 20% in real terms in the 14 years of Conservative rule. And one assumes demands for council spending (from aging population, etc.) has only increased. Around 40 odd per cent of households with at least one person working are in poverty. Nearly half of children in families with three kids or more are in poverty.

    To be sure there are positive sides of the ledger (pensioner poverty has fallen under the Conservatives). But, they are pretty few and far between (the FT weekend did a page of charts a few weeks ago that starkly demonstrated this).

    Not sure we’ll get much better from tomorrow. But, I just hope that we get leadership that stops trying to distract us with chat about a “culture war” and actually starts trying to fix the big things that are failing.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,422

    Mostly off topic but my daughter's school has this year moved their annual sports day back from September (which they switched to during Covid) to July.

    By a weird coincidence this means that their sports day is today, while the last one was on the day of Liz Truss/Kwasi Kwarteng's minibudget.

    Quite an amusing two political dates to top and tail with.

    A friend's school did athletics only on its annual sports day. One year a kid knocked 10 seconds off the school half mile record, which was written off as a stopwatch operator error. A couple of years later, he followed up with a gold medal at the Los Angeles Olympics. I shall watch out for your daughter in Paris in a month's time.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,363
    MattW said:

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Yes, I heard that Aberdeenshire Council cuts are causing a lot of upset. Do you think it will affect how people vote? BTW Good luck!
    Knobhead SNP are trying to make capital of it. Then when its pointed out some of the cuts are directly from their government they try and claim they are against the cuts whilst imploring everyone to vote for the people making the cuts to protest agaist the cuts.

    It isn't party political though. Its Tory/LD in the shire and SNP/LD in the city. Both councils are broke due to Holyrood cuts and both are making terrible cuts. The issue is a lack of cash from government. The SNP say INDEPENDENCE as the cure. But Scotland gets more cash per head than any other part of the UK. The money is there, what are they wasting it on?

    The whole funding model for local government is broken. That is the problem. Across the whole UK. Government has decided that it can be cut to the bone so that Tories can then blame the council if its Labour and deflect if its Tory. Wazzocks.
    On detail - does local gov funding (or lack of funding) in England get reflected in Barnet Consequentials? If so I assume it is not hypothecated.
    Yes, and no (at least generally).
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,671
    Leon said:

    Dopermean said:

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Yes, I heard that Aberdeenshire Council cuts are causing a lot of upset. Do you think it will affect how people vote? BTW Good luck!
    Library fact: did you know when volunteers step in to run libraries on behalf of local authorities, they no longer have to pay into the PLR (Public Lending Right pool) and so authors lose any income from borrowed books.

    Average author earnings dropped 11% in real terms between 2019 and 2021 and that was within a drop of 60% in real terms since 2006.
    Eeek! What about the ebooks? I'm now an avid user of Libby, am I impoverishing authors?
    YES
    Absolutely. My other half gets a good slug from the PLR every year. It's a lifeline for most authors.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,155

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Yes, I heard that Aberdeenshire Council cuts are causing a lot of upset. Do you think it will affect how people vote? BTW Good luck!
    Knobhead SNP are trying to make capital of it. Then when its pointed out some of the cuts are directly from their government they try and claim they are against the cuts whilst imploring everyone to vote for the people making the cuts to protest agaist the cuts.

    It isn't party political though. Its Tory/LD in the shire and SNP/LD in the city. Both councils are broke due to Holyrood cuts and both are making terrible cuts. The issue is a lack of cash from government. The SNP say INDEPENDENCE as the cure. But Scotland gets more cash per head than any other part of the UK. The money is there, what are they wasting it on?

    The whole funding model for local government is broken. That is the problem. Across the whole UK. Government has decided that it can be cut to the bone so that Tories can then blame the council if its Labour and deflect if its Tory. Wazzocks.
    'Knobhead SNP are trying to make capital of it'

    'It isn't party political though'

    'The SNP say INDEPENDENCE as the cure. But Scotland gets more cash per head than any other part of the UK. The money is there, what are they wasting it on?'

    Great to see the LD mo is as strong as ever.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited July 4
    MattW said:

    Site notice.

    For today and tomorrow I am lifting the one photo a day limit but on the following conditions.

    1) Only one photo per post

    2) The extra photo allowance must be election related. So no photos of what you had for lunch.

    I think the one per day policy has been really good, and we get a number of very interesting piccies.

    Especially from ... (That's enough. Ed)

    I agree. It makes you choose carefully - it’s a plus. However I would raise the limit to two photos per person per day. So you can do one careful political photo - but then you still have a chance for the random photo that you saw just that moment that really illustrates a point - a sight, a graph, an ironic meta-badger attacking Caroline Lucas
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    TimS said:

    If the Greens get anywhere near the 7% they seem to be averaging in polls that will be a huge turnup for the books. They never get more than about 3% at generals. On the other side if Reform get anything like mid to high teens then we will surely have the highest combined vote share for angry edge-case parties.

    In this context, and with major two party votes collapsing to the lowest ever, a Lib Dem vote share of 11 or 12% really isn't very impressive. The numbers suggest a degree of revolutionary ferment out there which I'd really not picked up before the campaign. It seemed rather that the public were keen on a period of no-drama competent governance after the chaos of the last 7 years. It's also rather out of kilter with polling on the main issues: economy, inflation, NHS etc. with immigration fairly high but not at the top, and topics like Gaza way down.

    I mean, people want their material needs met - that's why people worry about the economy and inflation and the NHS. Labour are basically promising more of the same, which people don't want. Reform are saying the reason material needs aren't being met is because of immigrants; the Greens argue it's because of lack of investment. I don't think it's a surprise then to see more voters opting for parties that claim to try to tackle the issues.
  • TheGreenMachineTheGreenMachine Posts: 1,097
    Northern Ireland Update :

    Alliance now favourite in Lagan Valley.

    Naomi Long moving towards an easy win within Belfast East.

    UUP Ahead in Antrim South but still close.

    Alliance have closed the gap within Strangford, however they are likely to fall short.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,975

    Again, although the Labour lead has dropped it doesn’t really imply it’s down to anything Labour has done.

    I'm not sure about that. They're beginning to look like a pretty empty vessel. They're now depending 100% on voters loathing the Tories enough to make it worthwhile voting.

    These Suella Braverman photos are going to have their work cutout.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    can anyone suggest a method of getting BBC-TV coverage overnight in Germany?
    I have no traditional TV set, just online streaming and I have no VPN. Well I do but a free one where where I can't specify which country I'm in. BBC i-Player is only available in the UK.

    I usually just listen to radio for UK news (no location block) and occasionally stream German TV for visual news. But visual coverage of the election would be so much better.

    Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,470
    Big thank you to Pulpstar for providing this service.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Election weather on the tense, war torn frontier between Primrose Hill and Camden: better than yesterday
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    TimS said:

    Tres said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Young people today.

    "Emma Raducanu says she did not know general election vote was on Thursday

    At a press conference, Raducanu was asked if she would vote before practising on Thursday, and if she would keep an eye on the general election in the evening. “No,” she replied, smiling. “I think I’ll have a lie-in, then I’ll come to practise.

    “I didn’t even know it was tomorrow, to be honest! Thanks for letting me know.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/03/emma-raducanu-claims-ignorance-of-general-election-and-says-she-will-lie-in

    Shame, because she’d obviously be a Lib Dem.
    Nah she is clearly Tory as fuck. The fact she is saying nowt is indicative of a wider trend.
    Romanian father - surely a remainer?
    Strong remain Strong conservative. https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/Analysis_extreme30_part2.html

    I know she's Bromley but I could imagine her living here:

    Ennismore Garden Mews in the City of Westminster ward of Knightsbridge and Belgravia (example postcode SW7 1AW). Geographically it is situated in the middle of Knightsbridge, near to both Harrods and the Royal Albert Hall."
  • Roger said:

    Again, although the Labour lead has dropped it doesn’t really imply it’s down to anything Labour has done.

    I'm not sure about that. They're beginning to look like a pretty empty vessel. They're now depending 100% on voters loathing the Tories enough to make it worthwhile voting.

    These Suella Braverman photos are going to have their work cutout.
    How do you explain SKS's ratings improving throughout the campaign?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    Quite a contrast:

    The Eurozone construction sector is stuck in a recession with no clear path to recovery. The HCOB PMI for June fell to 41.8. The setbacks in the three largest economies in the zone—Germany, France, and Italy—have been particularly severe this month. Subsector activity shows that residential construction remains the weakest, though there was a slight softening in the pace of decline compared to the previous month. The most significant negative correction from May occurred in civil engineering activity.

    https://www.pmi.spglobal.com/Public/Release/PressReleases

    Continued growth of the UK construction sector in June meant that the sector has recorded sustained expansion
    throughout the second quarter of the year. While there were signs of a slowdown in the latest survey period,
    most notably around housing activity, firms indicated that a slowdown in new order growth was in part related
    to election uncertainty. We may therefore see trends improve once the election period comes to an end.

    Moreover, confidence in the year ahead outlook remained strong and firms increased employment to the
    largest extent in ten months.

    In terms of inflation, there remains little sign of cost pressures picking up to any great extent, encouraging
    firms to expand purchasing activity. Supply-chain conditions also remained favourable.


    The great EuroZone construction depression is something which likely connects to other areas of socioeconomic malaise and political disfunction.

    Do not expect the media to report it.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,776
    Tres said:

    Site notice.

    For today and tomorrow I am lifting the one photo a day limit but on the following conditions.

    1) Only one photo per post

    2) The extra photo allowance must be election related. So no photos of what you had for lunch.

    To commemorate Project Fear: Tory Government 2019 - 2024 and to summarise the next few years of Tory infighting:


    1.5 B-Series so it might not be woke, but it is fucking shit-garbage.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    eristdoof said:

    can anyone suggest a method of getting BBC-TV coverage overnight in Germany?
    I have no traditional TV set, just online streaming and I have no VPN. Well I do but a free one where where I can't specify which country I'm in. BBC i-Player is only available in the UK.

    I usually just listen to radio for UK news (no location block) and occasionally stream German TV for visual news. But visual coverage of the election would be so much better.

    Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

    I suggest you pay for a proper VPN. Most - like NORDVPN - will actually offer you a free trial which you can cancel, if you are determined to be Helmut Scrooge
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,222
    Raducanu is a grammar school girl. Tory.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,470
    edited July 4
    Tewkesbury Update

    Ladbrokes now have the LDs in to evens; Con still just holding on to favoritism at 8/13. Those who followed my advice should now lay off if they have not already done so.

    It's simply too close to call.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,905
    Civic duty done. Brisk business in the Western Vale of Glamorgan, 80 takers by 9.00.

    Alun Cairns at the top of the voting slip. Something like 8 candidates to trawl through before finding the Labour candidate in the bottom half.

    Voted Labour but for the "life is too shorters" voting Cairns would have saved time.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,422
    TimS said:

    Tres said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Young people today.

    "Emma Raducanu says she did not know general election vote was on Thursday

    At a press conference, Raducanu was asked if she would vote before practising on Thursday, and if she would keep an eye on the general election in the evening. “No,” she replied, smiling. “I think I’ll have a lie-in, then I’ll come to practise.

    “I didn’t even know it was tomorrow, to be honest! Thanks for letting me know.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/03/emma-raducanu-claims-ignorance-of-general-election-and-says-she-will-lie-in

    Shame, because she’d obviously be a Lib Dem.
    Nah she is clearly Tory as fuck. The fact she is saying nowt is indicative of a wider trend.
    Romanian father - surely a remainer?
    There was a funny video which I can't now find on YouTube, of a Romanian television interview after the US Open. The interviewer asked a question, in Romanian, which the interpreter translated to English for Raducanu. But Emma answered in Romanian, and the whole thing descended into farce as the interpreter tried to keep up.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,671
    Farooq said:

    mwadams said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't think I understand the spreadsheet linked to in the header. It doesn't seem to have all the constituencies on there. E.g. I can't see ANME.

    Only the 3rd one has all constituencies, but it struggles a bit.

    The first 2 are for earlier in the evening when fewer are in play.
    Can you actually see Aberdeenshire North on Democracy Club 3? I can't.
    8926-8942 on Democracy Club 3, 528 on Winner by expected time and model
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    IanB2 said:

    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.

    Are you Isle of Wight West or East ?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    TimS said:

    If the Greens get anywhere near the 7% they seem to be averaging in polls that will be a huge turnup for the books. They never get more than about 3% at generals. On the other side if Reform get anything like mid to high teens then we will surely have the highest combined vote share for angry edge-case parties.

    In this context, and with major two party votes collapsing to the lowest ever, a Lib Dem vote share of 11 or 12% really isn't very impressive. The numbers suggest a degree of revolutionary ferment out there which I'd really not picked up before the campaign. It seemed rather that the public were keen on a period of no-drama competent governance after the chaos of the last 7 years. It's also rather out of kilter with polling on the main issues: economy, inflation, NHS etc. with immigration fairly high but not at the top, and topics like Gaza way down.

    It's clear that Labour has lost votes on its left flank to the Greens, so it would be a surprise if the overall Green vote share was not up. Where it is up is what matters. I suspect that it will mainly be in very safe, big city, Labour seats where, for now at least, it can do little harm. Whether the same voters would stick with the Greens if this election looked close is a different matter.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,776
    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Drove at over 150mph on the way to vote Green. 🤘

    Given how far most people are from a polling station, and the state of British roads, that must have been some epic acceleration and good brakes.
    Flipped my GT3 into a Tributo. It's a bit fast.
    What sort of security features do these have these days.

    If someone bumps into you in a supermarket car park, does it turn on it's cameras and record the dozy driver, for example - as a Tesla would?
    Nah, none of that shit just the standard Ferrari wireless key/immobiliser.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    IanB2 said:

    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.

    Your dog is staring at you with a sullen, resentful expression as if to say: Oh FFS, another photo?

    TBF It’s probably the exact expression many pb-ers adopted when I used to post endless photos of lovely drinks in sunny places
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    If anyone wants edit rights to the spreadsheets, please send me a PM. I'm obviously not going to allow it to everyone to prevent vandalism but I'll trust regulars here.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    edited July 4
    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.

    Are you Isle of Wight West or East ?
    East, even though the town wanted to be west
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,594

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Has anyone suggested the aggressive ultra extremist method to save the library?

    AKA people using it?
    We ARE using it. The council budget keeps getting cut year on year as their costs on statutory services goes up. They're faced with the need to provide library services but not being able to afford to switch the lights on. Our library is down to 6 hours a week as it is.

    Officers (its always the officers) genuinely asking us if there are other places that could be used to put a library. There are not. The fightback is by pushing them to provide the statutory services that have already been cut such as youth services, and put them into the building.

    A bit of cash spent - to replace all the florescent lights with LEDs and replace the storage heaters with energy efficient heat pump - would slash operating costs. But they don't have the money to invest in that either.

    This isn't even party political at a micro scale - every council is slashing services because the system itself is broken. Which is why I am running for election - we need to make a more fundamental change than tinkering around the edges. What legacy are we bequeathing to my kids when everything we once had it being scrapped because we can't afford it? How can we afford not to have a bus service or libraries or youth work or public toilets or a GP surgery with GPs in it or the police?

    Bloody Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
    Yup - per capita central funding has dropped circa 20% in real terms in the 14 years of Conservative rule. And one assumes demands for council spending (from aging population, etc.) has only increased. Around 40 odd per cent of households with at least one person working are in poverty. Nearly half of children in families with three kids or more are in poverty.

    To be sure there are positive sides of the ledger (pensioner poverty has fallen under the Conservatives). But, they are pretty few and far between (the FT weekend did a page of charts a few weeks ago that starkly demonstrated this).

    Not sure we’ll get much better from tomorrow. But, I just hope that we get leadership that stops trying to distract us with chat about a “culture war” and actually starts trying to fix the big things that are failing.
    The problem is all the populist "caps" and "freezes" on council tax.
    In the Western Isles, council tax raises just 9% of the council's total expenditure - it can't really be argued that the Scottish government contribution is not enough.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,955
    agingjb2 said:

    No reversal of Brexit in Starmer's lifetime is simply realistic. There is no way the EU will accept an application to rejoin on any terms that the UK could consider.

    That Tony Blair thinktank did some brilliant detailed polling on the issue. Even Remainers who wanted to rejoin were against rejoining if it meant Free Movement.

    Most people in the UK probably would favour being in the EU if we could pick and choose which bits apply to us, but on that basis we would never have left in the first place. That's a type of EU membership that does not exist and is never likely to be offered to us.

    The EU membership debate isn't really about the EU anymore, it's more symbolic than practical, or reflecting the popularity of the current government. Over the decades it has transformed from a practical economic issue to some weird identity and morality debate.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,092

    I forgot to tell PB that yesterday I was offered and accepted a Newly Qualified solicitor job at my current firm, starting in September. Career change (which some of you might remember) very nearly complete. :)

    Very late to the party but I'm delighted to hear your good news. I was around in the early days of your career change and it's lovely to be back to hear this. Congratulations and my very best wishes for the future.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    Roger said:

    Again, although the Labour lead has dropped it doesn’t really imply it’s down to anything Labour has done.

    I'm not sure about that. They're beginning to look like a pretty empty vessel. They're now depending 100% on voters loathing the Tories enough to make it worthwhile voting.

    These Suella Braverman photos are going to have their work cutout.
    And they will work.

    Labour's problems start when in government.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    20% of voting day come and gone, it flies by quicker than Christmas
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.

    Your dog is staring at you with a sullen, resentful expression as if to say: Oh FFS, another photo?

    TBF It’s probably the exact expression many pb-ers adopted when I used to post endless photos of lovely drinks in sunny places
    I said that one of the parties might give him a free ball if we went to vote. But after we voted, they didn't.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    Some of the Ipsos numbers look weird.
    The Greens collect 9%, way above their steady, solid, unchanging range of 5% - 7% from other pollsters. Even stranger is the 6% for the SNP ... is this even possible from their limited population base? It's certainly fully double the 3% they unerringly collect again and again from just about every other poll seen throughout this campaign.
    These 2 parties therefore together are shown to command 15% of the vote, which appears to be about 5% too high on any sensible comparable basis thus far.
    Just to round things off, the sum percentage total for all the parties listed is 97%, i.e. 3% short. Oh Dear, how and to where has this disappeared, it surely can't simply be wished away as a "rounding error".
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Mostly off topic but my daughter's school has this year moved their annual sports day back from September (which they switched to during Covid) to July.

    By a weird coincidence this means that their sports day is today, while the last one was on the day of Liz Truss/Kwasi Kwarteng's minibudget.

    Quite an amusing two political dates to top and tail with.

    A friend's school did athletics only on its annual sports day. One year a kid knocked 10 seconds off the school half mile record, which was written off as a stopwatch operator error. A couple of years later, he followed up with a gold medal at the Los Angeles Olympics. I shall watch out for your daughter in Paris in a month's time.
    Did he win Gold in Athletics in 1984? If so he was Daley Thompson or Seb Coe, both of whom had already won Gold in Moscow.

    If it was Steve Cram, he won Silver in LA.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    IanB2 said:

    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.

    She should have been told to shut up. No political discussion is allowed inside and immediately around the polling station.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    edited July 4
    mwadams said:

    Farooq said:

    mwadams said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't think I understand the spreadsheet linked to in the header. It doesn't seem to have all the constituencies on there. E.g. I can't see ANME.

    Only the 3rd one has all constituencies, but it struggles a bit.

    The first 2 are for earlier in the evening when fewer are in play.
    Can you actually see Aberdeenshire North on Democracy Club 3? I can't.
    8926-8942 on Democracy Club 3, 528 on Winner by expected time and model
    @RochdalePioneers is cell F8927 on sheet 3 Democracy Club 3 tab
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,375

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Has anyone suggested the aggressive ultra extremist method to save the library?

    AKA people using it?
    We ARE using it. The council budget keeps getting cut year on year as their costs on statutory services goes up. They're faced with the need to provide library services but not being able to afford to switch the lights on. Our library is down to 6 hours a week as it is.

    Officers (its always the officers) genuinely asking us if there are other places that could be used to put a library. There are not. The fightback is by pushing them to provide the statutory services that have already been cut such as youth services, and put them into the building.

    A bit of cash spent - to replace all the florescent lights with LEDs and replace the storage heaters with energy efficient heat pump - would slash operating costs. But they don't have the money to invest in that either.

    This isn't even party political at a micro scale - every council is slashing services because the system itself is broken. Which is why I am running for election - we need to make a more fundamental change than tinkering around the edges. What legacy are we bequeathing to my kids when everything we once had it being scrapped because we can't afford it? How can we afford not to have a bus service or libraries or youth work or public toilets or a GP surgery with GPs in it or the police?

    Bloody Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
    Yup - per capita central funding has dropped circa 20% in real terms in the 14 years of Conservative rule. And one assumes demands for council spending (from aging population, etc.) has only increased. Around 40 odd per cent of households with at least one person working are in poverty. Nearly half of children in families with three kids or more are in poverty.

    To be sure there are positive sides of the ledger (pensioner poverty has fallen under the Conservatives). But, they are pretty few and far between (the FT weekend did a page of charts a few weeks ago that starkly demonstrated this).

    Not sure we’ll get much better from tomorrow. But, I just hope that we get leadership that stops trying to distract us with chat about a “culture war” and actually starts trying to fix the big things that are failing.
    The problem is all the populist "caps" and "freezes" on council tax.
    In the Western Isles, council tax raises just 9% of the council's total expenditure - it can't really be argued that the Scottish government contribution is not enough.
    Why can't it be so argued?

    The problem is that the overwhelming majority of Council expenditure is on nationally-set statutory issues. Things like care, SEN etc

    If the national government is going to decree the expenditure, why should those not come from nation expenses?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    TimS said:

    If the Greens get anywhere near the 7% they seem to be averaging in polls that will be a huge turnup for the books. They never get more than about 3% at generals. On the other side if Reform get anything like mid to high teens then we will surely have the highest combined vote share for angry edge-case parties.

    In this context, and with major two party votes collapsing to the lowest ever, a Lib Dem vote share of 11 or 12% really isn't very impressive. The numbers suggest a degree of revolutionary ferment out there which I'd really not picked up before the campaign. It seemed rather that the public were keen on a period of no-drama competent governance after the chaos of the last 7 years. It's also rather out of kilter with polling on the main issues: economy, inflation, NHS etc. with immigration fairly high but not at the top, and topics like Gaza way down.

    It's clear that Labour has lost votes on its left flank to the Greens, so it would be a surprise if the overall Green vote share was not up. Where it is up is what matters. I suspect that it will mainly be in very safe, big city, Labour seats where, for now at least, it can do little harm. Whether the same voters would stick with the Greens if this election looked close is a different matter.

    I suspect the Green vote this time may be the most inefficient of all parties winning seats, possibly even more than Reform if the latter manage to bag 6 or 7 of their own. 3 or 4% per seat potentially. Vs more than 10 seats per 1% for Labour.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,803
    edited July 4

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Has anyone suggested the aggressive ultra extremist method to save the library?

    AKA people using it?
    We ARE using it. The council budget keeps getting cut year on year as their costs on statutory services goes up. They're faced with the need to provide library services but not being able to afford to switch the lights on. Our library is down to 6 hours a week as it is.

    Officers (its always the officers) genuinely asking us if there are other places that could be used to put a library. There are not. The fightback is by pushing them to provide the statutory services that have already been cut such as youth services, and put them into the building.

    A bit of cash spent - to replace all the florescent lights with LEDs and replace the storage heaters with energy efficient heat pump - would slash operating costs. But they don't have the money to invest in that either.

    This isn't even party political at a micro scale - every council is slashing services because the system itself is broken. Which is why I am running for election - we need to make a more fundamental change than tinkering around the edges. What legacy are we bequeathing to my kids when everything we once had it being scrapped because we can't afford it? How can we afford not to have a bus service or libraries or youth work or public toilets or a GP surgery with GPs in it or the police?

    Bloody Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
    Yup - per capita central funding has dropped circa 20% in real terms in the 14 years of Conservative rule. And one assumes demands for council spending (from aging population, etc.) has only increased. Around 40 odd per cent of households with at least one person working are in poverty. Nearly half of children in families with three kids or more are in poverty.

    To be sure there are positive sides of the ledger (pensioner poverty has fallen under the Conservatives). But, they are pretty few and far between (the FT weekend did a page of charts a few weeks ago that starkly demonstrated this).

    Not sure we’ll get much better from tomorrow. But, I just hope that we get leadership that stops trying to distract us with chat about a “culture war” and actually starts trying to fix the big things that are failing.
    You mean relative poverty on whatever the current definition is.

    Not actual poverty.

    If all the rich people left the country then 'poverty' would fall but actual poverty would increase.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,776
    tlg86 said:

    Raducanu is a grammar school girl. Tory.

    She's got a 992 GTS vert so that's fully sick.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    IanB2 said:

    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.

    Are you Isle of Wight West or East ?
    East, even though the town wanted to be west
    Labour for both I think.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,132
    Ok, here's my prediction based on roughly where we seem to be with polling:

    CON 85
    LAB 446
    LIB 70
    Reform 5
    Green 3
    SNP 18
    PC 3
    NI + other 20

    I am a bit sceptical of my own prediction to be honest as I can't shake the idea that a ton of silent tories are waking up this morning and deciding they can't bring themselves to vote reform/libdem and the party needs saving from oblivion/socialist superbollocks etc etc
  • Mark_MiewurdzMark_Miewurdz Posts: 25
    148grss said:

    TimS said:

    If the Greens get anywhere near the 7% they seem to be averaging in polls that will be a huge turnup for the books. They never get more than about 3% at generals. On the other side if Reform get anything like mid to high teens then we will surely have the highest combined vote share for angry edge-case parties.

    In this context, and with major two party votes collapsing to the lowest ever, a Lib Dem vote share of 11 or 12% really isn't very impressive. The numbers suggest a degree of revolutionary ferment out there which I'd really not picked up before the campaign. It seemed rather that the public were keen on a period of no-drama competent governance after the chaos of the last 7 years. It's also rather out of kilter with polling on the main issues: economy, inflation, NHS etc. with immigration fairly high but not at the top, and topics like Gaza way down.

    I mean, people want their material needs met - that's why people worry about the economy and inflation and the NHS. Labour are basically promising more of the same, which people don't want. Reform are saying the reason material needs aren't being met is because of immigrants; the Greens argue it's because of lack of investment. I don't think it's a surprise then to see more voters opting for parties that claim to try to tackle the issues.
    Yes, absolutely. Plus the overall result is a foregone conclusion so people feel more free to vote for what they actually believe in rather than voting Lab to stop the Cons and vice versa.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,004

    Voted! And done some street politics with passing mums heading up to school. Hot topic local issue - save the library.


    Has anyone suggested the aggressive ultra extremist method to save the library?

    AKA people using it?
    We ARE using it. The council budget keeps getting cut year on year as their costs on statutory services goes up. They're faced with the need to provide library services but not being able to afford to switch the lights on. Our library is down to 6 hours a week as it is.

    Officers (its always the officers) genuinely asking us if there are other places that could be used to put a library. There are not. The fightback is by pushing them to provide the statutory services that have already been cut such as youth services, and put them into the building.

    A bit of cash spent - to replace all the florescent lights with LEDs and replace the storage heaters with energy efficient heat pump - would slash operating costs. But they don't have the money to invest in that either.

    This isn't even party political at a micro scale - every council is slashing services because the system itself is broken. Which is why I am running for election - we need to make a more fundamental change than tinkering around the edges. What legacy are we bequeathing to my kids when everything we once had it being scrapped because we can't afford it? How can we afford not to have a bus service or libraries or youth work or public toilets or a GP surgery with GPs in it or the police?

    Bloody Tories know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
    Bloody SNP where you are, no?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,470
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    If the Greens get anywhere near the 7% they seem to be averaging in polls that will be a huge turnup for the books. They never get more than about 3% at generals. On the other side if Reform get anything like mid to high teens then we will surely have the highest combined vote share for angry edge-case parties.

    In this context, and with major two party votes collapsing to the lowest ever, a Lib Dem vote share of 11 or 12% really isn't very impressive. The numbers suggest a degree of revolutionary ferment out there which I'd really not picked up before the campaign. It seemed rather that the public were keen on a period of no-drama competent governance after the chaos of the last 7 years. It's also rather out of kilter with polling on the main issues: economy, inflation, NHS etc. with immigration fairly high but not at the top, and topics like Gaza way down.

    You’ve reminded me I’ve got to take a large root vegetable to the South African rugby training camp this afternoon, after I lunch at the Groucho

    Its a chore but it’s also a massive turnip for the Boks
    Your coat, Sir.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    TimS said:

    Tres said:

    TimS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Young people today.

    "Emma Raducanu says she did not know general election vote was on Thursday

    At a press conference, Raducanu was asked if she would vote before practising on Thursday, and if she would keep an eye on the general election in the evening. “No,” she replied, smiling. “I think I’ll have a lie-in, then I’ll come to practise.

    “I didn’t even know it was tomorrow, to be honest! Thanks for letting me know.”"

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/03/emma-raducanu-claims-ignorance-of-general-election-and-says-she-will-lie-in

    Shame, because she’d obviously be a Lib Dem.
    Nah she is clearly Tory as fuck. The fact she is saying nowt is indicative of a wider trend.
    Romanian father - surely a remainer?
    Do you know many Romanians?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,926
    A dilemma,

    I cannot stay up to watch the results tonight as I have a journey to make early tomorrow.

    Do I stay up for the exit poll or go to bed early and wake early hours for most of the declarations..,

    Decisions decisions… I am worried about severe exit poll FOMO but imagine if it’s wrong and I miss all the drama and set pieces.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,466
    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Drove at over 150mph on the way to vote Green. 🤘

    Given how far most people are from a polling station, and the state of British roads, that must have been some epic acceleration and good brakes.
    Flipped my GT3 into a Tributo. It's a bit fast.
    Better be quick to avoid the new insurance tax, and the extra VED coming in.
    Just funded my ISA this morning…

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046
    edited July 4
    Dura_Ace said:

    tlg86 said:

    Raducanu is a grammar school girl. Tory.

    She's got a 992 GTS vert so that's fully sick.
    It's refreshing to see a celeb who, rather than confessing to wanting world peace or an end to hunger as a child, says they always dreamed of owning a Porsche 911.
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 891
    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.

    She should have been told to shut up. No political discussion is allowed inside and immediately around the polling station.
    "You can't fight here, this is the war room!"
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,422
    eristdoof said:

    can anyone suggest a method of getting BBC-TV coverage overnight in Germany?
    I have no traditional TV set, just online streaming and I have no VPN. Well I do but a free one where where I can't specify which country I'm in. BBC i-Player is only available in the UK.

    I usually just listen to radio for UK news (no location block) and occasionally stream German TV for visual news. But visual coverage of the election would be so much better.

    Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

    I should imagine one or more channels will have it on YouTube.

    I've just posted and deleted half a dozen links to election news livestreams. Go to YouTube, search for uk general election or some such, then select live.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    A dilemma,

    I cannot stay up to watch the results tonight as I have a journey to make early tomorrow.

    Do I stay up for the exit poll or go to bed early and wake early hours for most of the declarations..,

    Decisions decisions… I am worried about severe exit poll FOMO but imagine if it’s wrong and I miss all the drama and set pieces.

    Has to be the declarations and all the 'we are hearing xxxx are seriously worried about xxxxx' drama!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,046

    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    A long queue out the door, never seen it so brisk. The woman behind me was debating how best to defeat the Tory and hadn't made up her mind when it got to my turn to go in.

    She should have been told to shut up. No political discussion is allowed inside and immediately around the polling station.
    "You can't fight here, this is the war room!"
    Plus, so Sky News tells me, dogs aren't actually not allowed in polling stations, it's up to the polling station.

    https://news.sky.com/story/polling-station-rules-dont-get-caught-out-on-election-day-13144499
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,154
    eristdoof said:

    can anyone suggest a method of getting BBC-TV coverage overnight in Germany?
    I have no traditional TV set, just online streaming and I have no VPN. Well I do but a free one where where I can't specify which country I'm in. BBC i-Player is only available in the UK.

    I usually just listen to radio for UK news (no location block) and occasionally stream German TV for visual news. But visual coverage of the election would be so much better.

    Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

    You can get sky news live from its site
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Roger said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1808774969142186411


    Keiran Pedley
    @keiranpedley
    🚨
    @IpsosUK
    FINAL CALL: Labour lead at 18 / Tories face historic defeat / Lab share drops in final week. 🚨

    Labour 37% (-5)
    Conservatives 19% (nc)
    Reform UK 15% (nc)
    Lib Dems 11% (nc)
    Greens 9% (+2)

    No reversal of Brexit in Keir's lifetime. Incredible when over 60% of the country now want it. Perhaps he really will be as tone deaf as some have predicted
    If you ask the Corbynites, all Starmer's ever done is break promises.

    We just need to be patient. They'll go to the EU to try and ameliorate the damage. Maybe they'll have some successes. But the inexorable desire of a majority those under 60 to get back what they've lost, and to get back for their kids, will become too electorally powerful to ignore. It'll take some time, and more wasted years, but we'll get there.

    Brexit is forever sullied with the last 14 years. Starmer is nothing if not pragmatic.
    When I need to ask the Corbynites something I'll give you the special signal, which is me being sectioned under the Mental Health Act.


    (C) M Tucker
  • ChristopherChristopher Posts: 91

    Quite a contrast:

    The Eurozone construction sector is stuck in a recession with no clear path to recovery. The HCOB PMI for June fell to 41.8. The setbacks in the three largest economies in the zone—Germany, France, and Italy—have been particularly severe this month. Subsector activity shows that residential construction remains the weakest, though there was a slight softening in the pace of decline compared to the previous month. The most significant negative correction from May occurred in civil engineering activity.

    https://www.pmi.spglobal.com/Public/Release/PressReleases

    Continued growth of the UK construction sector in June meant that the sector has recorded sustained expansion
    throughout the second quarter of the year. While there were signs of a slowdown in the latest survey period,
    most notably around housing activity, firms indicated that a slowdown in new order growth was in part related
    to election uncertainty. We may therefore see trends improve once the election period comes to an end.

    Moreover, confidence in the year ahead outlook remained strong and firms increased employment to the
    largest extent in ten months.

    In terms of inflation, there remains little sign of cost pressures picking up to any great extent, encouraging
    firms to expand purchasing activity. Supply-chain conditions also remained favourable.


    The great EuroZone construction depression is something which likely connects to other areas of socioeconomic malaise and political disfunction.

    Do not expect the media to report it.

    Us ISM services was also bad at 48.8 yesterday. Starmer will be up against it from day 1.
This discussion has been closed.