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Parties – politicalbetting.com

11516182021

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  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    booster standing on the water. :)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,493

    Grumpy, but informative:

    I'm not talking much about the general election tax debate. Because it's irrelevant. The few £bn being discussed is dwarfed by the actual tax UK tax increases over the last few years, and the further tax increases we'll almost certainly see in the future.

    Grumpy thread:


    https://x.com/danneidle/status/1798674346103480735?

    And even clearer why all BS about VAT on private schools for £1bn isn't really anything to do with tax raising.

    Unless massive growth returns to the economy swiftly, there is true danger of a doom loop of ever increasing taxes (directly and indirectly). But no everybody is arguing over things like gendered toilets.
    As I clearly explained, VAT on private schools is about families and their aspirations being the bedrock of Great Britain - all Labour understand is the individual and the state, so every child must go to state school.

    I should have mailed the “aspiration” argument to the Marx Bothers, for amount of damage Sunak made with it when the VAT on private schools question DID come up in Tuesdays debate. All Rishi and his campaign can think about is tax. If he had attacked Starmer on not understanding aspiration of families, as the Conservative response would have been in any such debate throughout the electorally successful 1980’s, he would not have bombed so badly.

    Sunak is in the Conservative Party, but he has not a clue what Conservatism is, what he should stand up for, where votes for him actually are.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Nailed that landing!
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    Sandpit said:

    Two Lib Dem officials arrested in Harrogate over election issues from the LEs. DYOR but Tories available at 11/4 to hold here.

    Dodgy Lib Dem leaflets...never...

    North Yorkshire Police are investigating the party members in Harrogate after campaign material wrongly claimed the Green Party were not contesting a by-election.

    The North Yorkshire Council poll for the Stray, Woodlands and Hookstone ward took place in March after former Liberal Democrat Pat Marsh resigned. A leaflet distributed to households said the Greens had '"stood down" when they had actually fielded a candidate. The Liberal Democrats blamed the misinformation on a "printing mistake".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clww9l5ryppo
    No such thing as a “printing mistake”. If you’re the registered agent, you’re personally responsible for all the leaflets that go out with your name on them.
    And even anything that doesn't have your name on them. One local election campaign I was agent for about 20 candidates. One particular candidate decided to print his own leaflet and distributed it without an imprint, worse it libeled one of his opponents. Cue angry phone calls and discussions with lawyers and we got an agreement with the opposition for us print a letter (wording agreed with the opposition) to deliver to all households in the ward with a grovelling apology for the previous leaflet. Not what I wanted every volunteer for the entire CLP to do on the eve of poll but it did keep me out of a courtroom.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Second stage shutdown, in orbit. Wow.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    biggles said:

    Taz said:

    More from @IpsosUK

    How much trouble is Rishi Sunak in? Look at his leader satisfaction ratings going into a General Election vs past Prime Ministers...

    https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1798628603330166935

    Every marker is pointing to a 1997 result. I know we don't believe it - well some of us don't - but it's time to consider that it really is going to happen on current trends.

    I think @Heathener will be vindicated with her predictions of a 97 meltdown which, to be fair to her, were made well in advance of the election.

    The only thing I still think is wrong is the level of visceral anger she says there is. I just see apathy and I think you are right in another of your posts re- SKS approval rating. People have made their minds up and very little will change it.

    I am still thinking 175-200 Tory seats and a decent labour majority. But who knows.
    There is nothing like the enthusiasm for LAB that there was in 1997. However CON are in a much worse state now. So LAB could well get 400+, 200 or maybe slightly more is now at the top of any realistic CON expectations.
    That's a bit different to what you put in Benpointers Excellent Competition, Pubman!
    Let’s not go mocking anyone for their predictions in that competition. I definitely have no ulterior motive in saying that…..


    Oh, the NOMs have already been referred to the Disciplinary Committee, Biggles, but I understand no charges will be brought until after the Election.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,698
    Amazing scenes in space.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,493
    ToryJim said:

    Glad to see TSE is recovering from his encounter with the barber surgeon. Hopefully his recovery to full health will be swift, aided one imagines by a timely course of leeches.

    I understand the NHS still use leeches.

    For some specific issues, they are the best thing to use.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 6

    Is an attempt at what US elections call a October surprise being prepared to be run?

    https://order-order.com/2024/06/06/times-now-reports-on-the-labour-love-affair-setting-tongues-wagging/

    Do sex and drugs stories even matter any more? Does anyone care?
    I think it depends a) how you sell yourself and b) some nuance of the situation.

    If you haven't gone all back to basics, i am whiter than white, had an affair, no. All this stuff never really stuck to Boris, because he never tried to push that angle. However, Hancock, it torpedoed him, due to the hypocrisy of having an affair during COVID and also because he was spending all day telling everybody not to do this.

    In US, Edwards candidacy was finished when it was exposed he was having affair while his wife had cancer. Trump, makes no difference that he shags around, because he doesn't moralise about it.

    Lets just entertain this rumour for a second. I think it looks slightly worse you have got your wife and mistress up the duff at the same time, then it is suggested washed your hands from responsibility of your child by the mistress.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,408
    edited June 6

    One engine out already

    Impressive that it can apparently still do its job minus an engine. There's a lot to be said for fault tolerance and redundancy.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058

    Is an attempt at what US elections call a October surprise being prepared to be run?

    https://order-order.com/2024/06/06/times-now-reports-on-the-labour-love-affair-setting-tongues-wagging/

    Do sex and drugs stories even matter any more? Does anyone care?
    Paul Staines does if it's anyone other than Boris Johnson
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Higher than I imagined.
    Just noticed that only 30% would fight to defend the UK from an invasion. Shocking.
    It's a theoretical question - if the Russians were at the Channel coast I suspect it might be a bit higher.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    So, I recall a few PBers predicting SCon gains and a couple floating a ‘value’ punt for the SNP to lose all their seats. Anyone care to nail their flags to those particular masts today?

    SNP won't lose all their seats certainly but there's some chance of SCon gaining one or two, it depends where the SNP vote ends up. Perth and Kinross, Angus and the glens, Argyll look interesting battles,although I think Luke G might have pissed off the good folk of Perth at the hustings
    Some chance certainly, but I think SCons aren't the ideal vehicle for tactical voting and this latest bit of shittiness won't help. See below.

    https://x.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1797970849741541877
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    ToryJim said:

    Glad to see TSE is recovering from his encounter with the barber surgeon. Hopefully his recovery to full health will be swift, aided one imagines by a timely course of leeches.

    About three to four months before I can resume a normal life. Abscess was huge.

    No driving for six weeks etc.

    Worst of all no nookie for a similar period.
    Kinell. That’s not fun. Sympathies

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643

    So, I recall a few PBers predicting SCon gains and a couple floating a ‘value’ punt for the SNP to lose all their seats. Anyone care to nail their flags to those particular masts today?

    I thought there might be some Scon gains somewhere in all the tactical voting chaos.

    To be fair on me, who could've predicted this particular manoeuvre from Ross.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Sandpit said:

    Second stage shutdown, in orbit. Wow.

    Not quite orbit - that is deliberate. It’s a very near orbital trajectory, but one that will re-intersect with Earth inevitably.

    Until they can demonstrate fully controlled re-entry that’s what they will do - you don’t want a spare skyscraper randomly coming down, just anywhere.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    So, I recall a few PBers predicting SCon gains and a couple floating a ‘value’ punt for the SNP to lose all their seats. Anyone care to nail their flags to those particular masts today?

    SNP won't lose all their seats certainly but there's some chance of SCon gaining one or two, it depends where the SNP vote ends up. Perth and Kinross, Angus and the glens, Argyll look interesting battles,although I think Luke G might have pissed off the good folk of Perth at the hustings
    Some chance certainly, but I think SCons aren't the ideal vehicle for tactical voting and this latest bit of shittiness won't help. See below.

    https://x.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1797970849741541877
    Indeed. I'm keeping an eye on the polling before committing to any bets
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 6
    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    One engine out already

    Impressive that it can apparently still do its job minus an engine. There's a lot to be said for fault tolerance.
    Depending on the exact mission, and the location of the failures, it can lose up to a handful of the 33 on the first stage and the others will cover for it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,493
    Farooq said:

    ToryJim said:

    Glad to see TSE is recovering from his encounter with the barber surgeon. Hopefully his recovery to full health will be swift, aided one imagines by a timely course of leeches.

    I understand the NHS still use leeches.

    For some specific issues, they are the best thing to use.
    I thought their proper title was Private Providers
    Farooq 🥺 I actually LIKED that post
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555
    JACK_W said:

    Awash with yellow peril litter in St Albans and Harpenden. One Labour poster in Kimpton. Nil Tory even in leafiest areas.

    Tories haven't even started putting them up yet down here.

    As they have such a short life expectency, we do it nearer polling day...

    Greetings, Jack.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,602
    The French should have provided Joe Biden with a chair.

    https://x.com/rncresearch/status/1798685173216927843
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Higher than I imagined.
    Just noticed that only 30% would fight to defend the UK from an invasion. Shocking.
    Ukraine has approx 2m fighting out of 33m.

    "Would you want to fight in the British Army in each of the following circumstances?"

    I would if needed, but I certaintly wouldn't "want" to, its a least bad scenario.

    People will be answering different questions here.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    That was the plan. SH is planned to be return and be caught at its launch tower, but they do not want to risk that until they know they have enough control of it. Ditto landing the SS component on land.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    Yes, it was the first attempt to land back the Starship first stage.

    As with the original Falcon 9 landings, they’ll do the first few straight into the drink, until they’re happy enough they can nail a target to deploy the drone ships.

    The first job is to make it land in (for example) a 1km square, then a 100m square, then a 10m square.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,408

    Sandpit said:

    Second stage shutdown, in orbit. Wow.

    Not quite orbit - that is deliberate. It’s a very near orbital trajectory, but one that will re-intersect with Earth inevitably.

    Until they can demonstrate fully controlled re-entry that’s what they will do - you don’t want a spare skyscraper randomly coming down, just anywhere.
    Hopefully we'll see that demonstrated in 20 minutes or so.
  • novanova Posts: 690

    Is an attempt at what US elections call a October surprise being prepared to be run?

    https://order-order.com/2024/06/06/times-now-reports-on-the-labour-love-affair-setting-tongues-wagging/

    Do sex and drugs stories even matter any more? Does anyone care?
    It might even attract a bit of the Reform vote.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,555

    I am glad Douglas Ross isn’t involved with PB.

    Lord knows what he would have done with me this week whilst I was in hospital.

    Op went well, should be released tomorrow.

    Excellent news. Welcome back! 👍
    I’m not really back. Yet.
    We’ve missed you. Abscess makes the heart grow fonder.
    As long as the heart doesn't grow fondant, you'll be fine.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    The French should have provided Joe Biden with a chair.

    https://x.com/rncresearch/status/1798685173216927843

    He really isn't all there. In years to come I am sure we will get the inside story of what has actually been happening the past few years and who actually makes the decisions.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Higher than I imagined.
    Just noticed that only 30% would fight to defend the UK from an invasion. Shocking.
    It's a theoretical question - if the Russians were at the Channel coast I suspect it might be a bit higher.
    Quite. The thought of having to fight doesn’t really sound that appealing in isolation. If an invasion is imminent and my whole way of life is threatened, it becomes a more immediate concern.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,529

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    For the first few times. It doesn't have legs. The plan is, once they have proven it will come down on target and hover, to hover it next to the launch tower then catch it. Amazing if they get it to work - then it will become the new normal.

    In their pre-launch talk, the announcer said their planned tempo is to build one new Starship booster a day. I think they might mean launch one a day, but it might really be build as they want to get millions of tonnes to orbit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    edited June 6
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    Yes, it was the first attempt to land back the Starship first stage.

    As with the original Falcon 9 landings, they’ll do the first few straight into the drink, until they’re happy enough they can nail a target to deploy the drone ships.

    The first job is to make it land in (for example) a 1km square, then a 100m square, then a 10m square.
    No drone ships for Super Heavy. Home to the chopsticks every time.

    Should someone sue Blue Origin about their planning on using a barge? :-) :-)
  • novanova Posts: 690
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Higher than I imagined.
    Just noticed that only 30% would fight to defend the UK from an invasion. Shocking.
    To be fair, would you actually "want" to fight?

    And as for the other choices, 10-15% is probably about the same size as the group who think they'd win a fight with a Grizzly Bear.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    The French should have provided Joe Biden with a chair.

    https://x.com/rncresearch/status/1798685173216927843

    Poor guy. Seriously, what are the Democrats playing at by running him again?

    Did his handlers miss that he’d be standing for the presentation, and did the French protocol department not realise that Biden can’t stand for any length of time?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 6

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
    Are the boosters too big for the usual drone ship approach? Or is this the new overall plan to always return boosters to original launch pad?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    I am glad Douglas Ross isn’t involved with PB.

    Lord knows what he would have done with me this week whilst I was in hospital.

    Op went well, should be released tomorrow.

    Excellent news. Welcome back! 👍
    I’m not really back. Yet.
    We’ve missed you. Abscess makes the heart grow fonder.
    As long as the heart doesn't grow fondant, you'll be fine.
    Fondue even worse..
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
    Are the boosters too big for the usual drone ship approach? Or is this the new overall plan to always return boosters to original launch pad?
    It takes time to get a drone ship back to shore. The idea about landing it on the launch tower is that it can be quickly recycled for another launch.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    The French should have provided Joe Biden with a chair.

    https://x.com/rncresearch/status/1798685173216927843

    He really isn't all there. In years to come I am sure we will get the inside story of what has actually been happening the past few years and who actually makes the decisions.
    But yet there are people in many quarters who say “nothing to see here, move along, he’s absolutely fine” when the evidence is right before your eyes that he clearly isn’t fine.

    That messaging has been so, so damaging. He really should have retired this year.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    For the first few times. It doesn't have legs. The plan is, once they have proven it will come down on target and hover, to hover it next to the launch tower then catch it. Amazing if they get it to work - then it will become the new normal.

    In their pre-launch talk, the announcer said their planned tempo is to build one new Starship booster a day. I think they might mean launch one a day, but it might really be build as they want to get millions of tonnes to orbit.
    The main thing slowing down the build rate is lack of places to put them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    edited June 6

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
    Are the boosters too big for the usual drone ship approach? Or is this the new overall plan to always return boosters to original launch pad?
    The ultimate plan is not to ‘stage’ the rocket at all, and have the whole thing land back on the pad with the ‘chopsticks’, to be recycled in a few hours like an A380 is today.

    It’ll be interesting to watch how the intermediate stages play out.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    The French should have provided Joe Biden with a chair.

    https://x.com/rncresearch/status/1798685173216927843

    He really isn't all there. In years to come I am sure we will get the inside story of what has actually been happening the past few years and who actually makes the decisions.
    Wrong. He is all there. He is weak on his feet at times, as one would expect for an 81-year-old. I find the ageist sneering about him pretty ugly to be honest.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    The French should have provided Joe Biden with a chair.

    https://x.com/rncresearch/status/1798685173216927843

    He really isn't all there. In years to come I am sure we will get the inside story of what has actually been happening the past few years and who actually makes the decisions.
    But yet there are people in many quarters who say “nothing to see here, move along, he’s absolutely fine” when the evidence is right before your eyes that he clearly isn’t fine.

    That messaging has been so, so damaging. He really should have retired this year.
    The GOP are even more stupid that they are wed to the cult of Trump. Two old crazy guys screaming at the moon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    edited June 6

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
    Are the boosters too big for the usual drone ship approach? Or is this the new overall plan to always return boosters to original launch pad?
    Simpler and quicker to return to launch site.

    It’s a major drag on Falcon 9 flight rate to have boosters steaming back on a barge for quite a while. Sea ops are always expensive and then you have the requirement for a crane to move the booster. This is a building that flies.

    The chopsticks on the tower can pick up and move the booster like it’s a toy.

    Edit:
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    That 30% figure will be being studied by countries like Russia, China, etc.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 6

    The French should have provided Joe Biden with a chair.

    https://x.com/rncresearch/status/1798685173216927843

    He really isn't all there. In years to come I am sure we will get the inside story of what has actually been happening the past few years and who actually makes the decisions.
    Wrong. He is all there. He is weak on his feet at times, as one would expect for an 81-year-old. I find the ageist sneering about him pretty ugly to be honest.
    Did you read the interview he did with Time magazine. It was total gobbledygook, hardly a coherent sentence and mixed up leaders, time lines, etc. It was like the output of very early LLM.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two Lib Dem officials arrested in Harrogate over election issues from the LEs. DYOR but Tories available at 11/4 to hold here.

    Dodgy Lib Dem leaflets...never...

    North Yorkshire Police are investigating the party members in Harrogate after campaign material wrongly claimed the Green Party were not contesting a by-election.

    The North Yorkshire Council poll for the Stray, Woodlands and Hookstone ward took place in March after former Liberal Democrat Pat Marsh resigned. A leaflet distributed to households said the Greens had '"stood down" when they had actually fielded a candidate. The Liberal Democrats blamed the misinformation on a "printing mistake".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clww9l5ryppo
    No such thing as a “printing mistake”. If you’re the registered agent, you’re personally responsible for all the leaflets that go out with your name on them.
    And even anything that doesn't have your name on them. One local election campaign I was agent for about 20 candidates. One particular candidate decided to print his own leaflet and distributed it without an imprint, worse it libeled one of his opponents. Cue angry phone calls and discussions with lawyers and we got an agreement with the opposition for us print a letter (wording agreed with the opposition) to deliver to all households in the ward with a grovelling apology for the previous leaflet. Not what I wanted every volunteer for the entire CLP to do on the eve of poll but it did keep me out of a courtroom.

    Whoops, and yes of course you did the right thing. I do wonder how many people sign up to be an agent, without understanding the full responsibility of the position?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited June 6

    So, I recall a few PBers predicting SCon gains and a couple floating a ‘value’ punt for the SNP to lose all their seats. Anyone care to nail their flags to those particular masts today?

    They would do far better if they called themselves Scones.

    At a stroke the "Lib-Lab-Scon" slogan would be rendered mute.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,529

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    For the first few times. It doesn't have legs. The plan is, once they have proven it will come down on target and hover, to hover it next to the launch tower then catch it. Amazing if they get it to work - then it will become the new normal.

    In their pre-launch talk, the announcer said their planned tempo is to build one new Starship booster a day. I think they might mean launch one a day, but it might really be build as they want to get millions of tonnes to orbit.
    The main thing slowing down the build rate is lack of places to put them.
    It would be pretty bad if a major hurricane blew through the storage area
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    MattW said:

    So, I recall a few PBers predicting SCon gains and a couple floating a ‘value’ punt for the SNP to lose all their seats. Anyone care to nail their flags to those particular masts today?

    They would do far better if they called themselves Scones.
    And could enhance their profile further by establishing a Scones Hotline.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
    Are the boosters too big for the usual drone ship approach? Or is this the new overall plan to always return boosters to original launch pad?
    Simpler and quicker to return to launch site.

    It’s a major drag on Falcon 9 flight rate to have boosters steaming back on a barge for quite a while. Sea ops are always expensive and then you have the requirement for a crane to move the booster. This is a building that flies.

    The chopsticks on the tower can pick up and move the booster like it’s a toy.

    Edit:
    The first few attempts at that are going to being some proper fireworks!!

    How many times will they need to rebuild the chopsticks and the tower, before they can reliably perform the manoeuvre?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    edited June 6

    The French should have provided Joe Biden with a chair.

    https://x.com/rncresearch/status/1798685173216927843

    He really isn't all there. In years to come I am sure we will get the inside story of what has actually been happening the past few years and who actually makes the decisions.
    But yet there are people in many quarters who say “nothing to see here, move along, he’s absolutely fine” when the evidence is right before your eyes that he clearly isn’t fine.

    That messaging has been so, so damaging. He really should have retired this year.
    The GOP are even more stupid that they are wed to the cult of Trump. Two old crazy guys screaming at the moon.
    200m-ish eligible candidates, and they picked the same two old idiots as last time.

    China and Russia must be laughing their arses off.

    Is this the ultimate example of the prisoners’ dilemma, that either party could pick someone else and know they win, but if both do then they could lose?

    One or other with a last-minute replacement can’t IMHO be ruled out.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    For the first few times. It doesn't have legs. The plan is, once they have proven it will come down on target and hover, to hover it next to the launch tower then catch it. Amazing if they get it to work - then it will become the new normal.

    In their pre-launch talk, the announcer said their planned tempo is to build one new Starship booster a day. I think they might mean launch one a day, but it might really be build as they want to get millions of tonnes to orbit.
    The main thing slowing down the build rate is lack of places to put them.
    It would be pretty bad if a major hurricane blew through the storage area
    They are building them so fast, that quite a few never fly anyway.

    This is Ship 29, Booster 11, on the 4th test flight

    The idea is that they are learning to build them rapidly. In parallel with building them *right*.

    Some of the features on today’s launch are already obsolete.

    This is a return to the hardware rich development style of the old days - Boeing built squadrons of B17s - X models, Y models, early production - until they worked out what was the best design. Some would argue that every B17 before the B17D was not really combat ready.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    It doesn't really matter what 2024 Tory supporters do. They can say whatever. What will matter to Labour in 2028 or whenever is what the switchers do.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
    Are the boosters too big for the usual drone ship approach? Or is this the new overall plan to always return boosters to original launch pad?
    Simpler and quicker to return to launch site.

    It’s a major drag on Falcon 9 flight rate to have boosters steaming back on a barge for quite a while. Sea ops are always expensive and then you have the requirement for a crane to move the booster. This is a building that flies.

    The chopsticks on the tower can pick up and move the booster like it’s a toy.

    Edit:
    The first few attempts at that are going to being some proper fireworks!!

    How many times will they need to rebuild the chopsticks and the tower, before they can reliably perform the manoeuvre?
    They are testing it at sea, against virtual tower.

    Then it will be like F9 landings. The booster will be aimed slightly offshore. If anything goes wrong on the approach it will go into the sea.

    The plan is multiple towers at each launch site as well.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Sandpit said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two Lib Dem officials arrested in Harrogate over election issues from the LEs. DYOR but Tories available at 11/4 to hold here.

    Dodgy Lib Dem leaflets...never...

    North Yorkshire Police are investigating the party members in Harrogate after campaign material wrongly claimed the Green Party were not contesting a by-election.

    The North Yorkshire Council poll for the Stray, Woodlands and Hookstone ward took place in March after former Liberal Democrat Pat Marsh resigned. A leaflet distributed to households said the Greens had '"stood down" when they had actually fielded a candidate. The Liberal Democrats blamed the misinformation on a "printing mistake".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clww9l5ryppo
    No such thing as a “printing mistake”. If you’re the registered agent, you’re personally responsible for all the leaflets that go out with your name on them.
    And even anything that doesn't have your name on them. One local election campaign I was agent for about 20 candidates. One particular candidate decided to print his own leaflet and distributed it without an imprint, worse it libeled one of his opponents. Cue angry phone calls and discussions with lawyers and we got an agreement with the opposition for us print a letter (wording agreed with the opposition) to deliver to all households in the ward with a grovelling apology for the previous leaflet. Not what I wanted every volunteer for the entire CLP to do on the eve of poll but it did keep me out of a courtroom.

    Whoops, and yes of course you did the right thing. I do wonder how many people sign up to be an agent, without understanding the full responsibility of the position?
    Think of the people who sign up to run charities and then express the belief that it is unfair to hold them legally liable for their voluntarily accepted legal liabilities.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
    Are the boosters too big for the usual drone ship approach? Or is this the new overall plan to always return boosters to original launch pad?
    Simpler and quicker to return to launch site.

    It’s a major drag on Falcon 9 flight rate to have boosters steaming back on a barge for quite a while. Sea ops are always expensive and then you have the requirement for a crane to move the booster. This is a building that flies.

    The chopsticks on the tower can pick up and move the booster like it’s a toy.

    Edit:
    The first few attempts at that are going to being some proper fireworks!!

    How many times will they need to rebuild the chopsticks and the tower, before they can reliably perform the manoeuvre?
    They are testing it at sea, against virtual tower.

    Then it will be like F9 landings. The booster will be aimed slightly offshore. If anything goes wrong on the approach it will go into the sea.

    The plan is multiple towers at each launch site as well.
    Yes, the same iteration as they did with the original F9 landings, using the sea to narrow the target window.

    If there are multiple towers at the launch site, will an incoming rocket be able to dynamically switch to another if slightly off course, like parallel runways at at airport?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not going quietly:

    THE hospitalised Tory candidate who was deselected in favour of Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross today insisted he is fit to stand in the General Election.

    David Duguid hit out amid claims from party chiefs that he is not well enough to be the candidate for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East constituency on July 4.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/12829443/hospital-tory-candidate-douglas-ross-david-duguid/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nailed that landing!

    They they just land it on the water rather than a drone ship?
    The plan is for all boosters to return to the launch site, hover and be caught by arms on the launch tower (aka “the chop sticks”)

    Until accurate landing is proven, they will ditch the boosters.
    Are the boosters too big for the usual drone ship approach? Or is this the new overall plan to always return boosters to original launch pad?
    Simpler and quicker to return to launch site.

    It’s a major drag on Falcon 9 flight rate to have boosters steaming back on a barge for quite a while. Sea ops are always expensive and then you have the requirement for a crane to move the booster. This is a building that flies.

    The chopsticks on the tower can pick up and move the booster like it’s a toy.

    Edit:
    The first few attempts at that are going to being some proper fireworks!!

    How many times will they need to rebuild the chopsticks and the tower, before they can reliably perform the manoeuvre?
    They are testing it at sea, against virtual tower.

    Then it will be like F9 landings. The booster will be aimed slightly offshore. If anything goes wrong on the approach it will go into the sea.

    The plan is multiple towers at each launch site as well.
    Yes, the same iteration as they did with the original F9 landings, using the sea to narrow the target window.

    If there are multiple towers at the launch site, will an incoming rocket be able to dynamically switch to another if slightly off course, like parallel runways at at airport?
    Probably not - if slightly of course, something is wrong and you would want to ditch the booster.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,408
    Looking promising for re-entry so far. Not tumbling like last time.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    edited June 6

    Not going quietly:

    THE hospitalised Tory candidate who was deselected in favour of Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross today insisted he is fit to stand in the General Election.

    David Duguid hit out amid claims from party chiefs that he is not well enough to be the candidate for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East constituency on July 4.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/12829443/hospital-tory-candidate-douglas-ross-david-duguid/

    WTF, a Scottish Tory civil war on the eve of the election?

    An election where the SCons might expect a random gain or two as the SNP implode.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Came on here to check on election news and find it’s all a bit boys with toys rockets

    No idea who or what has launched today but am assuming it’s not a new party.

    I’ll check back later.

    ;)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    This SpaceX broadcast really is a vertical integration achievement.

    Elon's rocket on Elon's social media platform, with the signal provided by his satellites.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Awesome images of the re-entry friction.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    Going into the Adama Manouevre now
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    Sandpit said:

    Awesome images of the re-entry friction.

    Some like it hot.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Heathener said:

    Came on here to check on election news and find it’s all a bit boys with toys rockets

    No idea who or what has launched today but am assuming it’s not a new party.

    I’ll check back later.

    ;)

    The Rocketmen are large caucus on PB.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 6
    Pulpstar said:

    This SpaceX broadcast really is a vertical integration achievement.

    Elon's rocket on Elon's social media platform, with the signal provided by his satellites.

    He is cunning devil in that respect. Same way as Tesla SuperChargers network are located in many prime spots for charging and has solar / battery powerwall tech to provide power for them, and the starlink is much better for internet on commercial planes than existing satellite tech can either be (and there is ever greater need for fast internet on planes, both from telemetry being send to the ground and passengers wanting it).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Pulpstar said:

    This SpaceX broadcast really is a vertical integration achievement.

    Elon's rocket on Elon's social media platform, with the signal provided by his satellites.

    @Leon will spontaneously cream himself :lol:
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    Plasma wind :o
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Higher than I imagined.
    Just noticed that only 30% would fight to defend the UK from an invasion. Shocking.
    It's a theoretical question - if the Russians were at the Channel coast I suspect it might be a bit higher.
    They would want the regular army to do it first though before conscription.

    Though of course as the UK and France have nukes Putin might hesitate even if he reached the French border
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978

    Pulpstar said:

    This SpaceX broadcast really is a vertical integration achievement.

    Elon's rocket on Elon's social media platform, with the signal provided by his satellites.

    @Leon will spontaneously cream himself :lol:
    Is he not already out of jizz from looking at the OF model who attacked Farage?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Awesome images of the re-entry friction.

    Some like it hot.
    "I'm a man!"
    "Nobody's perfect!"
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    Sandpit said:

    Not going quietly:

    THE hospitalised Tory candidate who was deselected in favour of Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross today insisted he is fit to stand in the General Election.

    David Duguid hit out amid claims from party chiefs that he is not well enough to be the candidate for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East constituency on July 4.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/12829443/hospital-tory-candidate-douglas-ross-david-duguid/

    WTF, a Scottish Tory civil war on the eve of the election?

    An election where the SCons might expect a random gain or two as the SNP implode.
    Well they might have done but Douglas is definitely trying to pull defeat from the jaws of victory...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Pulpstar said:

    This SpaceX broadcast really is a vertical integration achievement.

    Elon's rocket on Elon's social media platform, with the signal provided by his satellites.

    He is cunning devil in that respect. Same way as Tesla SuperChargers network are located in many prime spots for charging and has solar / battery powerwall tech to provide power for them, and the starlink is much better for internet on commercial planes than existing satellite tech can either be (and there is ever greater need for fast internet on planes, both from telemetry being send to the ground and passengers wanting it).
    The super charger network was carefully located to make long distance trips in EVs easy.

    Starlink was as a result of others failing to take the opportunity to launch absurdly cheaply on F9. “If no one else will…”. Other LEO constellation designs assumed infrequent, expensive launch.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    Speed down below 14,000 MPH. Is a Lib Dem driving ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    Well your last paragraph worked in 2010. "We have to cut harder and faster because of the mess Labour left us". You PB Tories still get mileage out of Liam Byrne's note
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    Anyone know whereabouts in the world the 2nd stage is btw ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Largest object ever to re-enter the atmosphere. Speed seriously coming off now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited June 6

    So, I recall a few PBers predicting SCon gains and a couple floating a ‘value’ punt for the SNP to lose all their seats. Anyone care to nail their flags to those particular masts today?

    SNP won't lose all their seats certainly but there's some chance of SCon gaining one or two, it depends where the SNP vote ends up. Perth and Kinross, Angus and the glens, Argyll look interesting battles,although I think Luke G might have pissed off the good folk of Perth at the hustings
    Ayr might also go Tory.

    Banff and Buchan likely goes SNP again though as it was from 1987-2017
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited June 6
    You feel SpaceX is really pushing the limits of material science here. Amazing the cameras are still working in that heat. Below 10,000 mph now.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    edited June 6

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    It doesn't really matter what 2024 Tory supporters do. They can say whatever. What will matter to Labour in 2028 or whenever is what the switchers do.
    Well it will if the accusation stick into 2028/9 and it undermines Labour. Alot will depend on how the economy rebuilds and moves forward and if Labour can actually get some growth.

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    Well your last paragraph worked in 2010. "We have to cut harder and faster because of the mess Labour left us". You PB Tories still get mileage out of Liam Byrne's note
    I am no more a Tory than you, and that is, partly, my point. That note of Liam Byrne's still comes back to bite. It shouldn't.

    Labour should be open and honest. They are going to win at a canter. Both parties are not being honest with us on tax. They should be.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Call me bitter but I hope SpaceX crashes and burns .
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Sandpit said:

    Largest object ever to re-enter the atmosphere. Speed seriously coming off now.

    Was that Musks ego !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    Need windscreen wipers on the camera.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Pulpstar said:

    You feel SpaceX is really pushing the limits of material science here. Amazing the cameras are still working in that heat. Below 10,000 mph now.

    How many of those tiles were they expecting to lose I wonder? Brilliant images as it re-enters.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    It doesn't really matter what 2024 Tory supporters do. They can say whatever. What will matter to Labour in 2028 or whenever is what the switchers do.
    Well it will if the accusation stick into 2028/9 and it undermines Labour. Alot will depend on how the economy rebuilds and moves forward and if Labour can actually get some growth.

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    Well your last paragraph worked in 2010. "We have to cut harder and faster because of the mess Labour left us". You PB Tories still get mileage out of Liam Byrne's note
    I am no more a Tory than you, and that is, partly, my point. That note of Liam Byrne's still comes back to bite. It shouldn't.

    Labour should be open and honest. They are going to win at a canter. Both parties are not being honest with us on tax. They should be.
    The Tories are being thoroughly honest about tax. They will cut NI and IHT for starters. What they are dishonest about is explaining the cuts to social services required to fund these tax cuts. And to be fair Labour and the media aren't asking.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Survived Max Q on the way down.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Pulpstar said:

    Anyone know whereabouts in the world the 2nd stage is btw ?

    Indian Ocean
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    It doesn't really matter what 2024 Tory supporters do. They can say whatever. What will matter to Labour in 2028 or whenever is what the switchers do.
    Well it will if the accusation stick into 2028/9 and it undermines Labour. Alot will depend on how the economy rebuilds and moves forward and if Labour can actually get some growth.

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    Well your last paragraph worked in 2010. "We have to cut harder and faster because of the mess Labour left us". You PB Tories still get mileage out of Liam Byrne's note
    I am no more a Tory than you, and that is, partly, my point. That note of Liam Byrne's still comes back to bite. It shouldn't.

    Labour should be open and honest. They are going to win at a canter. Both parties are not being honest with us on tax. They should be.
    The Tories are being thoroughly honest about tax. They will cut NI and IHT for starters. What they are dishonest about is explaining the cuts to social services required to fund these tax cuts. And to be fair Labour and the media aren't asking.
    Labour have been strongly challenging on the NI point to the point of flirting with the truth themselves. Claiming it is a policy when it is an aspiration, well some Labour politicians have. "How will the Tories plug the £46 Billion gap" etc etc. You may have missed it.

    They have not announced any plans to cut IHT, that is just a presumption on your part.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    It doesn't really matter what 2024 Tory supporters do. They can say whatever. What will matter to Labour in 2028 or whenever is what the switchers do.
    Well it will if the accusation stick into 2028/9 and it undermines Labour. Alot will depend on how the economy rebuilds and moves forward and if Labour can actually get some growth.

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    "Rachel Reeves under pressure from shadow ministers to raise capital gains tax to revive public services

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/06/rachel-reeves-under-pressure-from-shadow-ministers-to-raise-capital-gains-tax-to-revive-public-services

    One former Treasury official said: “In the end, not least for demographic reasons, this country is going to have to pay more tax and Labour is going to have to find ways to raise it. The British people are crying out for an honest conversation about this.”

    Some in Labour agree that a failure to admit they will have to raise taxes could become a “credibility issue” with the public, business leaders and international investors."

    This is why, when Labour do start raising taxes, all this stuff about the Tories being liars will come back to bite them.

    Both Parties are going to have to do something to raise tax to raise the money they need. They will not do it by growth, they will not doing it through closing loopholes, effeciency savings or the measures already announced.

    People like taxes when they do not affect them so expect more stealth taxes.

    Neither party is being honest on this with us. Labour can say the Tories are lying about specifics but they do have uncosted plans and are not telling us how that gap will be filled.

    You can't be honest when the current Government has given working people a massive £1600 tax cut that cannot be justified based on spending cuts that don't exist.
    Of course can, and you can re-iterate it was a reckless thing to do at this stage and point out the money would be better off put into services if you so wished. Portray labour as the party of fiscal responsibility. But that is fine. Their choice.

    They may very well have to deal with the electoral consequences of this at a later date. Saying "we have just come in and things are worse than we expected" just won't cut it and the Tories and their supporters will simply say "we told you so".
    Well your last paragraph worked in 2010. "We have to cut harder and faster because of the mess Labour left us". You PB Tories still get mileage out of Liam Byrne's note
    I am no more a Tory than you, and that is, partly, my point. That note of Liam Byrne's still comes back to bite. It shouldn't.

    Labour should be open and honest. They are going to win at a canter. Both parties are not being honest with us on tax. They should be.
    Why on earth should Labour give the Tories and their media arselickers ammunition . The public don’t want honesty they want to live in a bubble where taxes don’t need to go up and yet services will miraculously improve .
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,493
    Pulpstar said:

    Plasma wind :o

    Sorry.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Wow, they landed it. Nucking futs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212
    Looks like it landed and failed to be destroyed by the toppling

    So Starship is floating in the Indian Ocean somewhere.

    Impressive, despite the damage from the burn through on the flap hinge.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,408
    Sandpit said:

    Survived Max Q on the way down.

    That was incredible! It still managed to orient itself for a landing burn despite having a flap practically melted off!
This discussion has been closed.