I suspect Owen will never admit to himself that the only to get mass protest against the elite in this country is by riding on the coattails of Islamists and antisemities.
Didn't Britain wage two long, hard-fought wars against the Far-right? Now we have Tommy Robinson at the Cenotaph?
Two? Not sure WWI was against a far right led country, more a Kaiser Willhelm one.
Unless you are referring to napoleon.
Kaiser Bill and chums were hard core right reactionaries, trying to prevent real parliamentary democracy.
You should read up on their agenda - War is good, War is God…
Weimar was everything they hated and feared.
As Prof Tolkien put it, the Nazis were “a combination of the worst elements of Kaiserism and Bolshevism”.
Kaiser Bill marched his troops almost as far east as Hitler did, just that the November 1918 Ceasefire got in the way. He also controlled Georgia briefly.
The ceasefire on the Eastern front was from March 1918.
Nick Lowles @lowles_nick · 10m About 200 far right protesters are heading for Vauxhall Bridge Road in an attempt to confront pro-Palestinian supporters. This is getting highly dangerous
No surprise the UK far right find common cause with Israel's far right government.
No surprise the UK far left find common cause with Gaza's terroristic, anti-Semitic government.
And yet it's Israel's far-right government that have killed over 11,000 people in just five weeks...
In the context of what Hamas did last month.
And does what Israel does mean that supporting a terroristic, anti-Semitic government is fine and dandy?
Who are the terrorists bombing civilians right now?
Are Hamas still firing rockets?
You cannot look at what's happening and put all the ire on Israel. Hamas have a massive responsibility for what is going on, at a number of different levels.
If Hamas wanted peace then they should release all the hostages. It'd be simple for them too do that, and if they did, Israel would have much less reason to do what they're doing now. But Hamas won't.
For all we know the hostages are probably dead under all that rubble resulting from the IDF airstrikes. Probably.
I think it's unlikely: the hostages will have been kept underground in tunnels because they are valuable to Hamas.
Didn't Britain wage two long, hard-fought wars against the Far-right? Now we have Tommy Robinson at the Cenotaph?
Two? Not sure WWI was against a far right led country, more a Kaiser Willhelm one.
Unless you are referring to napoleon.
Kaiser Bill and chums were hard core right reactionaries, trying to prevent real parliamentary democracy.
You should read up on their agenda - War is good, War is God…
Weimar was everything they hated and feared.
As Prof Tolkien put it, the Nazis were “a combination of the worst elements of Kaiserism and Bolshevism”.
Kaiser Bill marched his troops almost as far east as Hitler did, just that the November 1918 Ceasefire got in the way. He also controlled Georgia briefly.
The ceasefire on the Eastern front was from March 1918.
[sigh] The REAL Ceasefire obliged Bill to renounce Brest-Litovsk (and Bucharest, the treaty with Romania), and evacuate his holdings in the East. Rostov was the furthest east the Germans reached by that time.
Sums things up in a nutshell... (((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 1h In any other context the Left say “if a minority community say they find something offensive or oppressive we must respect that and listen to their lived experience”. Then we have “From the River to the Sea”. At which point it becomes “shut up, we’ll decide what it means”.
I don't agree with the view that just because a group finds something offensive it automatically should be accepted as such (though it should be reasonably considered when deciding it), but it is a fair point that those who do adopt that approach cannot reasonably reject it for one specific area or group.
For me the key indicator it is an offensive slogan is the attempts made to modulate it, the 'between the river and the sea' variant seen a bit recently. It's a tacit admission the original being seen as problematic has some acceptance behind it, so best to adjust.
From the Mersey to the Dee, Cheshire will be free!
Good times - a government administrative reorganisation that, whilst not perfect or complete, has been positive and effective for many areas.
'Cheshire West and Cheshire' still remains one of the stupidest and clumsiest names imaginable for a county.
Why didn't they just call them 'Chester' and 'Crewe?'
Yes, it's a tautology. Chester is in West Cheshire. West Cheshire is tge western half of the county of Chester. Either half of the name would have done. Though 'Crewe' is more of a stretch. My main complaint about Cheshire East is that East Cheshire would have been better.
Anyway, 'From the Pennines to the Dee' would work better.
From the Pennines to the Dee Let's stop and have a cup of tea
By the way, Cheshire is absolutely heartbreakingly beautiful today. I've been to Lymm. You can see why people take to religion on a day like this: you need something to thank for such beauty.
My parents have spectacular views of the Cheshire plain from their kitchen window. When the sun sets in the west over the Welsh mountains it’s genuinely special.
A point that seems to be sometimes overlooked is that Israel has no practical choice but to attempt to crush Hamas. I can't imagine that there is a single significant figure in Israeli public life who doesn't accept that. Israel is a democracy and its leadership simply cannot ignore the views of its population which has been traumatised.
Indeed, the whole point of the extreme performative sadistic cruelty shown by Hamas (the details of what happened to those young people still haunts me) was to ensure that there would be an overwhelming reaction. Hamas delights in the destruction both in Israel and Gaza. And will no doubt be pleased with reactions in the West such as today's London demonstrators which is why, frankly, I rather despise them. (Where were they for the Uyghurs?) The lackof sympathy for our own Jewish community is quite something. Just imagine being a Jew in London.
It is to the credit of most of our political leaders that, so far, they have faced down this protest.
A point that seems to be sometimes overlooked is that Israel has no practical choice but to attempt to crush Hamas. I can't imagine that there is a single significant figure in Israeli public life who doesn't accept that. Israel is a democracy and its leadership simply cannot ignore the views of its population which has been traumatised.
Indeed, the whole point of the extreme performative sadistic cruelty shown by Hamas (the details of what happened to those young people still haunts me) was to ensure that there would be an overwhelming reaction. Hamas delights in the destruction both in Israel and Gaza. And will no doubt be pleased with reactions in the West such as today's London demonstrators which is why, frankly, I rather despise them. (Where were they for the Uyghurs?) The lackof sympathy for our own Jewish community is quite something. Just imagine being a Jew in London.
It is to the credit of most of our political leaders that, so far, they have faced down this protest.
Meanwhile, the BBC has been speaking to some of those attending today's pro-Palestine march.
"I am a Christian and God tells us to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. So I just felt absolutely compelled to come today," one woman tells us.
When asked about PM Rishi Sunak's comments that protesting on Armistice Day is disrespectful, she says: "I think it is the perfect day to actually do it on. Because that's what armistice is, it is a call for ceasefire and a call for stopping war."
Didn't Britain wage two long, hard-fought wars against the Far-right? Now we have Tommy Robinson at the Cenotaph?
Two? Not sure WWI was against a far right led country, more a Kaiser Willhelm one.
Unless you are referring to napoleon.
Kaiser Bill and chums were hard core right reactionaries, trying to prevent real parliamentary democracy.
You should read up on their agenda - War is good, War is God…
Weimar was everything they hated and feared.
As Prof Tolkien put it, the Nazis were “a combination of the worst elements of Kaiserism and Bolshevism”.
Kaiser Bill marched his troops almost as far east as Hitler did, just that the November 1918 Ceasefire got in the way. He also controlled Georgia briefly.
The ceasefire on the Eastern front was from March 1918.
[sigh] The REAL Ceasefire obliged Bill to renounce Brest-Litovsk (and Bucharest, the treaty with Romania), and evacuate his holdings in the East. Rostov was the furthest east the Germans reached by that time.
If you're referring to the Armistice of 1918:
(1) that didn't require Germany to renounce anything. You're confusing it with the peace of Versailles the following year.
(2) The Kaiser was overthrown on the 9th November 1918 and did not sign the armistice...
Didn't Britain wage two long, hard-fought wars against the Far-right? Now we have Tommy Robinson at the Cenotaph?
Two? Not sure WWI was against a far right led country, more a Kaiser Willhelm one.
Unless you are referring to napoleon.
Kaiser Bill and chums were hard core right reactionaries, trying to prevent real parliamentary democracy.
You should read up on their agenda - War is good, War is God…
Weimar was everything they hated and feared.
As Prof Tolkien put it, the Nazis were “a combination of the worst elements of Kaiserism and Bolshevism”.
Kaiser Bill marched his troops almost as far east as Hitler did, just that the November 1918 Ceasefire got in the way. He also controlled Georgia briefly.
The ceasefire on the Eastern front was from March 1918.
[sigh] The REAL Ceasefire obliged Bill to renounce Brest-Litovsk (and Bucharest, the treaty with Romania), and evacuate his holdings in the East. Rostov was the furthest east the Germans reached by that time.
If you're referring to the Armistice of 1918:
(1) that didn't require Germany to renounce anything. You're confusing it with the peace of Versailles the following year.
(2) The Kaiser was overthrown on the 9th November 1918 and did not sign the armistice...
"Immediate withdrawal of all German troops in Romania and in what were the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire back to German territory as it was on 1 August 1914, the Allies to have access to these countries."
No. It’s hilarious. The crowd turned on him because one guy with a megaphone denounced him as a Marxist and a thief and a Freemason and everyone looked confused
True story
One of the more bizarre aspects of Hamas is they blame Freemasonry for spreading ideas of gender equality.
Because obviously, an organisation open in its key areas only to men is an organisation that's dedicated to improving the lot of women and stopping them from understanding they are (in Hamas' words) 'the makers of men.'
This is the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy thing I guess. They are in cahoots you know to take over the world etc etc...
Originally, the Freemasons and the real non-conspiracy Illuminati were about separation of church and state. They advocated politics and society being driven by science, not theology.
This is long gone, of course, but it explains the animus against them from various religions.
And the Nazis.
See the theory that Nazism (and Stalinism and Maoism) were Political Religions.
The Met did a wise thing routing them all there. Vauxhall can be improved by nukes.
Actually I disagree. Vauxhall looks spectacular now
Let me know if you're abandoning Primrose Hill in its favour. I think perhaps the Oval cricket ground is a bad vibe for the area. I can't think of anywhere other than Lords' where a stadium is a plus.
OT: BBC iPlayer are pretty crap at showing live sporting events they have the rights to. I wanted to watch GB play Sweden in the Billie Jean King Cup, but it's not even on the front page of their Sports section! I've found it now though.
The Met did a wise thing routing them all there. Vauxhall can be improved by nukes.
Actually I disagree. Vauxhall looks spectacular now
Let me know if you're abandoning Primrose Hill in its favour. I think perhaps the Oval cricket ground is a bad vibe for the area. I can't think of anywhere other than Lords' where a stadium is a plus.
Stratford? Saw the Mode there in 2017, and been plenty of times to the Olympic Park before and since.
The Met did a wise thing routing them all there. Vauxhall can be improved by nukes.
Actually I disagree. Vauxhall looks spectacular now
Let me know if you're abandoning Primrose Hill in its favour. I think perhaps the Oval cricket ground is a bad vibe for the area. I can't think of anywhere other than Lords' where a stadium is a plus.
Stratford? Saw the Mode there in 2017, and been plenty of times to the Olympic Park before and since.
The efforts made around placing the stadium have no doubt benefitted the area, but the stadium itself hasn't been a plus. (I've not been there for a few years though, and there were clearly huge efforts to make the stadium a good thing, and maybe they've worked)
Didn't Britain wage two long, hard-fought wars against the Far-right? Now we have Tommy Robinson at the Cenotaph?
Two? Not sure WWI was against a far right led country, more a Kaiser Willhelm one.
Unless you are referring to napoleon.
Kaiser Bill and chums were hard core right reactionaries, trying to prevent real parliamentary democracy.
You should read up on their agenda - War is good, War is God…
Weimar was everything they hated and feared.
As Prof Tolkien put it, the Nazis were “a combination of the worst elements of Kaiserism and Bolshevism”.
Kaiser Bill marched his troops almost as far east as Hitler did, just that the November 1918 Ceasefire got in the way. He also controlled Georgia briefly.
The ceasefire on the Eastern front was from March 1918.
[sigh] The REAL Ceasefire obliged Bill to renounce Brest-Litovsk (and Bucharest, the treaty with Romania), and evacuate his holdings in the East. Rostov was the furthest east the Germans reached by that time.
If you're referring to the Armistice of 1918:
(1) that didn't require Germany to renounce anything. You're confusing it with the peace of Versailles the following year.
(2) The Kaiser was overthrown on the 9th November 1918 and did not sign the armistice...
"Immediate withdrawal of all German troops in Romania and in what were the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire back to German territory as it was on 1 August 1914, the Allies to have access to these countries."
My emphasis.
That isn't quite correct. The Imperial troops were withdrawn but the unofficial German forces remained.
Also, that clause on renouncing the treaty was not honoured. It was, in fact, an ongoing issue until 1920.
Didn't Britain wage two long, hard-fought wars against the Far-right? Now we have Tommy Robinson at the Cenotaph?
Two? Not sure WWI was against a far right led country, more a Kaiser Willhelm one.
Unless you are referring to napoleon.
Kaiser Bill and chums were hard core right reactionaries, trying to prevent real parliamentary democracy.
You should read up on their agenda - War is good, War is God…
Weimar was everything they hated and feared.
As Prof Tolkien put it, the Nazis were “a combination of the worst elements of Kaiserism and Bolshevism”.
Kaiser Bill marched his troops almost as far east as Hitler did, just that the November 1918 Ceasefire got in the way. He also controlled Georgia briefly.
The German Empire was exactly that
Among other groups, it had a considerable number of Polish people in it, which it explicitly treated as second class citizens.
Didn't Britain wage two long, hard-fought wars against the Far-right? Now we have Tommy Robinson at the Cenotaph?
Two? Not sure WWI was against a far right led country, more a Kaiser Willhelm one.
Unless you are referring to napoleon.
Kaiser Bill and chums were hard core right reactionaries, trying to prevent real parliamentary democracy.
You should read up on their agenda - War is good, War is God…
Weimar was everything they hated and feared.
As Prof Tolkien put it, the Nazis were “a combination of the worst elements of Kaiserism and Bolshevism”.
Kaiser Bill marched his troops almost as far east as Hitler did, just that the November 1918 Ceasefire got in the way. He also controlled Georgia briefly.
The ceasefire on the Eastern front was from March 1918.
[sigh] The REAL Ceasefire obliged Bill to renounce Brest-Litovsk (and Bucharest, the treaty with Romania), and evacuate his holdings in the East. Rostov was the furthest east the Germans reached by that time.
If you're referring to the Armistice of 1918:
(1) that didn't require Germany to renounce anything. You're confusing it with the peace of Versailles the following year.
(2) The Kaiser was overthrown on the 9th November 1918 and did not sign the armistice...
"Immediate withdrawal of all German troops in Romania and in what were the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire back to German territory as it was on 1 August 1914, the Allies to have access to these countries."
My emphasis.
That isn't quite correct. The Imperial troops were withdrawn but the unofficial German forces remained.
Also, that clause on renouncing the treaty was not honoured. It was, in fact, an ongoing issue until 1920.
Didn't Britain wage two long, hard-fought wars against the Far-right? Now we have Tommy Robinson at the Cenotaph?
Two? Not sure WWI was against a far right led country, more a Kaiser Willhelm one.
Unless you are referring to napoleon.
Kaiser Bill and chums were hard core right reactionaries, trying to prevent real parliamentary democracy.
You should read up on their agenda - War is good, War is God…
Weimar was everything they hated and feared.
As Prof Tolkien put it, the Nazis were “a combination of the worst elements of Kaiserism and Bolshevism”.
Kaiser Bill marched his troops almost as far east as Hitler did, just that the November 1918 Ceasefire got in the way. He also controlled Georgia briefly.
The ceasefire on the Eastern front was from March 1918.
[sigh] The REAL Ceasefire obliged Bill to renounce Brest-Litovsk (and Bucharest, the treaty with Romania), and evacuate his holdings in the East. Rostov was the furthest east the Germans reached by that time.
If you're referring to the Armistice of 1918:
(1) that didn't require Germany to renounce anything. You're confusing it with the peace of Versailles the following year.
(2) The Kaiser was overthrown on the 9th November 1918 and did not sign the armistice...
"Immediate withdrawal of all German troops in Romania and in what were the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire back to German territory as it was on 1 August 1914, the Allies to have access to these countries."
My emphasis.
That isn't quite correct. The Imperial troops were withdrawn but the unofficial German forces remained.
Also, that clause on renouncing the treaty was not honoured. It was, in fact, an ongoing issue until 1920.
I note you say nothing about the Kaiser...
The unofficial forces being the embryonic storm troopers. And quite a few of them painted swastikas on their helmets…
A point that seems to be sometimes overlooked is that Israel has no practical choice but to attempt to crush Hamas. I can't imagine that there is a single significant figure in Israeli public life who doesn't accept that. Israel is a democracy and its leadership simply cannot ignore the views of its population which has been traumatised.
Indeed, the whole point of the extreme performative sadistic cruelty shown by Hamas (the details of what happened to those young people still haunts me) was to ensure that there would be an overwhelming reaction. Hamas delights in the destruction both in Israel and Gaza. And will no doubt be pleased with reactions in the West such as today's London demonstrators which is why, frankly, I rather despise them. (Where were they for the Uyghurs?) The lackof sympathy for our own Jewish community is quite something. Just imagine being a Jew in London.
It is to the credit of most of our political leaders that, so far, they have faced down this protest.
The Uyghur question is a good one. This whole thing is mainly about power and not really about right and wrong, notwithstanding peoples beliefs.
"Police say 105 arrests have been made so far today - the "vast majority" of them among counter-protesters.
Scotland Yard sources say many of the counter-protesters arrested are connected to football hooliganism, and some of them have previous convictions for football violence."
A point that seems to be sometimes overlooked is that Israel has no practical choice but to attempt to crush Hamas. I can't imagine that there is a single significant figure in Israeli public life who doesn't accept that. Israel is a democracy and its leadership simply cannot ignore the views of its population which has been traumatised.
Indeed, the whole point of the extreme performative sadistic cruelty shown by Hamas (the details of what happened to those young people still haunts me) was to ensure that there would be an overwhelming reaction. Hamas delights in the destruction both in Israel and Gaza. And will no doubt be pleased with reactions in the West such as today's London demonstrators which is why, frankly, I rather despise them. (Where were they for the Uyghurs?) The lackof sympathy for our own Jewish community is quite something. Just imagine being a Jew in London.
It is to the credit of most of our political leaders that, so far, they have faced down this protest.
The Uyghur question is a good one. This whole thing is mainly about power and not really about right and wrong, notwithstanding peoples beliefs.
Don't forget Tibet! The Dalai Lama is still in exile in India...
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
But what should we call the bigotry of no expectations; what adjective applies to the bigotry shown by those who think it unfair to have any expectations at all of Hamas?
I would say that the far right clearly aren't up to much these days when all they can muster is a couple of hundred knuckle draggers. Back in the day, firms from a lower league non-name football club could organise more of a turn out.
War crimes continue to be committed in Gaza, but the World remains largely silent. Well done Macron for calling for a ceasefire.
What do you mean by 'ceasefire', and what is your roadmap for a greater peace?
It doesn’t involve killing children and babies, that’s for sure. All the Israelis are doing is perpetuating the cycle of violence.
That's not an answer, it's an evasion.
Hamas attacked Israel in a horrific manner a month ago. How does Israel respond against Hamas without killing civilians, let alone children and babies? especially when Hamas have embedded themselves amongst civilians?
What would you have Israel do?
(I know this question annoys some people; but I fear that's because they don't have a good or reasonable answer. So all we get is what Israel shouldn't be doing.)
War crimes continue to be committed in Gaza, but the World remains largely silent. Well done Macron for calling for a ceasefire.
War crimes on both sides.
I expect there’s London based thuggery on both sides today too.
It would be nice to think the experience on these marches would give normal people there pause for thought: seeing what types you’re making common cause with. I couldn’t imagine being on a march where fellow marchers included jihadists, or EDL hooligans.
War crimes continue to be committed in Gaza, but the World remains largely silent. Well done Macron for calling for a ceasefire.
What do you mean by 'ceasefire', and what is your roadmap for a greater peace?
It doesn’t involve killing children and babies, that’s for sure. All the Israelis are doing is perpetuating the cycle of violence.
I’m trying to find your post on October 7th damming Hamas for perpetuating the cycle of violence when they killed children and babies. It must be there somewhere yes?
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
War crimes continue to be committed in Gaza, but the World remains largely silent. Well done Macron for calling for a ceasefire.
What do you mean by 'ceasefire', and what is your roadmap for a greater peace?
It doesn’t involve killing children and babies, that’s for sure. All the Israelis are doing is perpetuating the cycle of violence.
That's not an answer, it's an evasion.
Hamas attacked Israel in a horrific manner a month ago. How does Israel respond against Hamas without killing civilians, let alone children and babies? especially when Hamas have embedded themselves amongst civilians?
What would you have Israel do?
(I know this question annoys some people; but I fear that's because they don't have a good or reasonable answer. So all we get is what Israel shouldn't be doing.)
Yes.
And there's another element that bears mentioning. Jews around the world are held responsible for Israel's actions, in a way that (for example) Muslims are not held responsible for Saudi Arabia's.
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
Are these the ones that take Tommy Robinson's or George Galloway's view on the Israel Palestine question ?
A point that seems to be sometimes overlooked is that Israel has no practical choice but to attempt to crush Hamas. I can't imagine that there is a single significant figure in Israeli public life who doesn't accept that. Israel is a democracy and its leadership simply cannot ignore the views of its population which has been traumatised.
Indeed, the whole point of the extreme performative sadistic cruelty shown by Hamas (the details of what happened to those young people still haunts me) was to ensure that there would be an overwhelming reaction. Hamas delights in the destruction both in Israel and Gaza. And will no doubt be pleased with reactions in the West such as today's London demonstrators which is why, frankly, I rather despise them. (Where were they for the Uyghurs?) The lackof sympathy for our own Jewish community is quite something. Just imagine being a Jew in London.
It is to the credit of most of our political leaders that, so far, they have faced down this protest.
The Uyghur question is a good one. This whole thing is mainly about power and not really about right and wrong, notwithstanding peoples beliefs.
Don't forget Tibet! The Dalai Lama is still in exile in India...
I think the Dalai Lama is persona non grata these days, after he asked that boy to suck his tongue
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
Are these the ones that take Tommy Robinson's or George Galloway's view on the Israel Palestine question ?
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
Are these the ones that take Tommy Robinson's or George Galloway's view on the Israel Palestine question ?
War crimes continue to be committed in Gaza, but the World remains largely silent. Well done Macron for calling for a ceasefire.
What do you mean by 'ceasefire', and what is your roadmap for a greater peace?
It doesn’t involve killing children and babies, that’s for sure. All the Israelis are doing is perpetuating the cycle of violence.
That's not an answer, it's an evasion.
Hamas attacked Israel in a horrific manner a month ago. How does Israel respond against Hamas without killing civilians, let alone children and babies? especially when Hamas have embedded themselves amongst civilians?
What would you have Israel do?
(I know this question annoys some people; but I fear that's because they don't have a good or reasonable answer. So all we get is what Israel shouldn't be doing.)
Yes.
And there's another element that bears mentioning. Jews around the world are held responsible for Israel's actions, in a way that (for example) Muslims are not held responsible for Saudi Arabia's.
Usually by people who think that Hamas shouldn't be help responsible for Hamas's actions.
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
Are these the ones that take Tommy Robinson's or George Galloway's view on the Israel Palestine question ?
So have the supporters of a 'rules based international community' explained how this 'rules based international community' would have:
1) Brought the Hamas leadership to justice
2) Ensured Israel's security from further attacks from Gaza
And after that can anyone explain how 2.5m people are supposed to be economically supported by an area smaller than the Isle of Wight ?
Answer those questions and you might be on the way to a workable peace process.
The sad thing is it’s possible for an area the size of the Isle of Wight to support many millions of people. Take Singapore, which even looks just like the IoW and houses twice Gaza’s population on twice the area, and is one of the worlds richest countries. But you need: peace, transport access and free trade with neighbouring countries, high quality governance, substantial manufacturing and service sector exports to counterbalance food and raw material imports.
Gaza is actually quite well situated on the Eastern Med close to Israel, Saudi and the gulf states, Egypt, Turkey and Cyprus. But history and geopolitics mean it’ll never be the Singapore of the Levant.
You have to be really dense to go to a march that is being so closely observed with such an openly racist sign and not think somebody might take a picture of you.
I would say that the far right clearly aren't up to much these days when all they can muster is a couple of hundred knuckle draggers. Back in the day, firms from a lower league non-name football club could organise more of a turn out.
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
You've gone looking for trouble from the Pro-Palestinian side and predictably, amid a crowd of hundreds of thousands, you've found it.
We all appreciated there could be trouble; the surprise is that so far there has not been more.
Meanwhile you've dismissed the neo-Nazis as "200 pathetic, drunk football hooligans".
Forgive me if I take my news from proper journalists, not some right-wing extremist with an axe to grind.
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
Are these the ones that take Tommy Robinson's or George Galloway's view on the Israel Palestine question ?
Well, they’re now chanting Allahu Akbar
Are the fuzz joining in?
They need to hide their rainbow lanyards first in case they cause offence.
So have the supporters of a 'rules based international community' explained how this 'rules based international community' would have:
1) Brought the Hamas leadership to justice
2) Ensured Israel's security from further attacks from Gaza
And after that can anyone explain how 2.5m people are supposed to be economically supported by an area smaller than the Isle of Wight ?
Answer those questions and you might be on the way to a workable peace process.
The sad thing is it’s possible for an area the size of the Isle of Wight to support many millions of people. Take Singapore, which even looks just like the IoW and houses twice Gaza’s population on twice the area, and is one of the worlds richest countries. But you need: peace, transport access and free trade with neighbouring countries, high quality governance, substantial manufacturing and service sector exports to counterbalance food and raw material imports.
Gaza is actually quite well situated on the Eastern Med close to Israel, Saudi and the gulf states, Egypt, Turkey and Cyprus. But history and geopolitics mean it’ll never be the Singapore of the Levant.
Plus rule of law, a hard working populace, tolerance towards those different and I'm sure many other things which aren't found in Gaza.
Dubai would be a more relevant example but if you wanted to create another Dubai you wouldn't want to start with Gaza.
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
You've gone looking for trouble from the Pro-Palestinian side and predictably, amid a crowd of hundreds of thousands, you've found it.
We all appreciated there could be trouble; the surprise is that so far there has not been more.
Meanwhile you've dismissed the neo-Nazis as "200 pathetic, drunk football hooligans".
Forgive me if I take my news from proper journalists, not some right-wing extremist with an axe to grind.
Given the birth of the EDL, or certainly R Tommeh, came from soccer hooligans. He was a well known member of the Luton firm ‘Men in Gear’, also known as ‘Men in Running Gear’ as they are clowns. He has a point especially as many are from the democratic football,lads lot.
A point that seems to be sometimes overlooked is that Israel has no practical choice but to attempt to crush Hamas. I can't imagine that there is a single significant figure in Israeli public life who doesn't accept that. Israel is a democracy and its leadership simply cannot ignore the views of its population which has been traumatised.
Indeed, the whole point of the extreme performative sadistic cruelty shown by Hamas (the details of what happened to those young people still haunts me) was to ensure that there would be an overwhelming reaction. Hamas delights in the destruction both in Israel and Gaza. And will no doubt be pleased with reactions in the West such as today's London demonstrators which is why, frankly, I rather despise them. (Where were they for the Uyghurs?) The lackof sympathy for our own Jewish community is quite something. Just imagine being a Jew in London.
It is to the credit of most of our political leaders that, so far, they have faced down this protest.
Meanwhile, the BBC has been speaking to some of those attending today's pro-Palestine march.
"I am a Christian and God tells us to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. So I just felt absolutely compelled to come today," one woman tells us.
When asked about PM Rishi Sunak's comments that protesting on Armistice Day is disrespectful, she says: "I think it is the perfect day to actually do it on. Because that's what armistice is, it is a call for ceasefire and a call for stopping war."
Yeah, right. No doubt, she's been actively speaking for the Uyghurs, Rohingyas, Tibetans, Armenians, and everyone else who genuinely can't speak for themselves. Not to mention the various Jewish communities across the globe facing continuous and insidious discrimination.
Not such a great problem for the Palestinians who, let's face it, don't seem to lacking in spokesmen, do they?.
You have to be really dense to go to a march that is being so closely observed with such an openly racist sign and not think somebody might take a picture of you.
Is that term generally considered racist? It's highly offensive, of course, but racist? I am happy to be educated on this one.
For those who care Nick Griffin has been on team Palestine rather than Tommy today.
Today seems to be bending the horseshoe into a full circle.
People looking at the demo today and trying to write the antisemitism off as a tiny minority or misunderstood are just ignoring the facts in front of them. The fact the dreadful Braverman has been whipping things up along with her proud boys at the cenotaph shouldn’t blunt people to the nasty views on display among the Palestine flags.
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
You've gone looking for trouble from the Pro-Palestinian side and predictably, amid a crowd of hundreds of thousands, you've found it.
We all appreciated there could be trouble; the surprise is that so far there has not been more.
Meanwhile you've dismissed the neo-Nazis as "200 pathetic, drunk football hooligans".
Forgive me if I take my news from proper journalists, not some right-wing extremist with an axe to grind.
Given the birth of the EDL, or certainly R Tommeh, came from soccer hooligans. He was a well known member of the Luton firm ‘Men in Gear’, also known as ‘Men in Running Gear’ as they are clowns. He has a point especially as many are from the democratic football,lads lot.
Level on points with the top team in the division, 8 clear of the team in third. I’d have taken that at this stage if offered at the start of the season.
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
Are these the ones that take Tommy Robinson's or George Galloway's view on the Israel Palestine question ?
You have to be really dense to go to a march that is being so closely observed with such an openly racist sign and not think somebody might take a picture of you.
Is that term generally considered racist? It's highly offensive, of course, but racist? I am happy to be educated on this one.
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
But I am here. And you’re trying to frame a narrative in a. way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
You've gone looking for trouble from the Pro-Palestinian side and predictably, amid a crowd of hundreds of thousands, you've found it.
We all appreciated there could be trouble; the surprise is that so far there has not been more.
Meanwhile you've dismissed the neo-Nazis as "200 pathetic, drunk football hooligans".
Forgive me if I take my news from proper journalists, not some right-wing extremist with an axe to grind.
Well, at least I now know you’re an absolute twat. I’m here. You’re not. Enough
A point that seems to be sometimes overlooked is that Israel has no practical choice but to attempt to crush Hamas. I can't imagine that there is a single significant figure in Israeli public life who doesn't accept that. Israel is a democracy and its leadership simply cannot ignore the views of its population which has been traumatised.
Indeed, the whole point of the extreme performative sadistic cruelty shown by Hamas (the details of what happened to those young people still haunts me) was to ensure that there would be an overwhelming reaction. Hamas delights in the destruction both in Israel and Gaza. And will no doubt be pleased with reactions in the West such as today's London demonstrators which is why, frankly, I rather despise them. (Where were they for the Uyghurs?) The lackof sympathy for our own Jewish community is quite something. Just imagine being a Jew in London.
It is to the credit of most of our political leaders that, so far, they have faced down this protest.
Meanwhile, the BBC has been speaking to some of those attending today's pro-Palestine march.
"I am a Christian and God tells us to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. So I just felt absolutely compelled to come today," one woman tells us.
When asked about PM Rishi Sunak's comments that protesting on Armistice Day is disrespectful, she says: "I think it is the perfect day to actually do it on. Because that's what armistice is, it is a call for ceasefire and a call for stopping war."
Yeah, right. No doubt, she's been actively speaking for the Uyghurs, Rohingyas, Tibetans, Armenians, and everyone else who genuinely can't speak for themselves. Not to mention the various Jewish communities across the globe facing continuous and insidious discrimination.
Not such a great problem for the Palestinians who, let's face it, don't seem to lacking in spokesmen, do they?.
Comments
Indeed, the whole point of the extreme performative sadistic cruelty shown by Hamas (the details of what happened to those young people still haunts me) was to ensure that there would be an overwhelming reaction. Hamas delights in the destruction both in Israel and Gaza. And will no doubt be pleased with reactions in the West such as today's London demonstrators which is why, frankly, I rather despise them. (Where were they for the Uyghurs?) The lackof sympathy for our own Jewish community is quite something. Just imagine being a Jew in London.
It is to the credit of most of our political leaders that, so far, they have faced down this protest.
"I am a Christian and God tells us to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. So I just felt absolutely compelled to come today," one woman tells us.
When asked about PM Rishi Sunak's comments that protesting on Armistice Day is disrespectful, she says: "I think it is the perfect day to actually do it on. Because that's what armistice is, it is a call for ceasefire and a call for stopping war."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-67390343
(1) that didn't require Germany to renounce anything. You're confusing it with the peace of Versailles the following year.
(2) The Kaiser was overthrown on the 9th November 1918 and did not sign the armistice...
"Immediate withdrawal of all German troops in Romania and in what were the Ottoman Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire back to German territory as it was on 1 August 1914, the Allies to have access to these countries."
My emphasis.
Thou Shalt Have No Other God Than Me
https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1723381067787198625?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
https://x.com/nathanjrobinson/status/1723355907864543681?s=46&t=16Vx1hkPdKeRguANzrOtZQ
https://x.com/incmonocle/status/1723385893984113071?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
The idea that the main concern here is about 200 pathetic, drunk football hooligans is beneath contempt
Also, that clause on renouncing the treaty was not honoured. It was, in fact, an ongoing issue until 1920.
I note you say nothing about the Kaiser...
Among other groups, it had a considerable number of Polish people in it, which it explicitly treated as second class citizens.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-67390343
It’s utterly ridiculous
This whole thing is mainly about power and not really about right and wrong, notwithstanding peoples beliefs.
Scotland Yard sources say many of the counter-protesters arrested are connected to football hooliganism, and some of them have previous convictions for football violence."
One prediction: Leon will be on here at some point highlighting even the slightest issue.
Bunnco eat your heart out
They say that madness is doing the same things and expecting a different result….
Because the actions of 0.1% will end up defining your message.
Edit: in the the case of EDL organised demos, the actions of 99.99% end up defining their message.
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing
It's short, and almost everyone can learn from it.)
But what should we call the bigotry of no expectations; what adjective applies to the bigotry shown by those who think it unfair to have any expectations at all of Hamas?
1) Brought the Hamas leadership to justice
2) Ensured Israel's security from further attacks from Gaza
And after that can anyone explain how 2.5m people are supposed to be economically supported by an area smaller than the Isle of Wight ?
Answer those questions and you might be on the way to a workable peace process.
Hamas attacked Israel in a horrific manner a month ago. How does Israel respond against Hamas without killing civilians, let alone children and babies? especially when Hamas have embedded themselves amongst civilians?
What would you have Israel do?
(I know this question annoys some people; but I fear that's because they don't have a good or reasonable answer. So all we get is what Israel shouldn't be doing.)
It would be nice to think the experience on these marches would give normal people there pause for thought: seeing what types you’re making common cause with. I couldn’t imagine being on a march where fellow marchers included jihadists, or EDL hooligans.
And there's another element that bears mentioning. Jews around the world are held responsible for Israel's actions, in a way that (for example) Muslims are not held responsible for Saudi Arabia's.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/10/dalai-lama-apologises-kissing-boy-suck-his-tongue-video
Gaza is actually quite well situated on the Eastern Med close to Israel, Saudi and the gulf states, Egypt, Turkey and Cyprus. But history and geopolitics mean it’ll never be the Singapore of the Levant.
https://x.com/hurryupharry/status/1723359467700383748?s=20
Officers are actively looking for these individuals and will take proactive action when they are identified.
https://x.com/metpoliceuk/status/1723360950508507197?s=20
You have to be really dense to go to a march that is being so closely observed with such an openly racist sign and not think somebody might take a picture of you.
We all appreciated there could be trouble; the surprise is that so far there has not been more.
Meanwhile you've dismissed the neo-Nazis as "200 pathetic, drunk football hooligans".
Forgive me if I take my news from proper journalists, not some right-wing extremist with an axe to grind.
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1723362581513908603?s=20
Did nobody tell them Halloween was a couple of weeks ago?
Dubai would be a more relevant example but if you wanted to create another Dubai you wouldn't want to start with Gaza.
Bunch of drunken pricks.
Not such a great problem for the Palestinians who, let's face it, don't seem to lacking in spokesmen, do they?.
People looking at the demo today and trying to write the antisemitism off as a tiny minority or misunderstood are just ignoring the facts in front of them. The fact the dreadful Braverman has been whipping things up along with her proud boys at the cenotaph shouldn’t blunt people to the nasty views on display among the Palestine flags.