Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
There is a difference between free speech and freedom to say what you want without impunity. Nobody prevented the football fan in the first place.
I'm not sure I agree. This fella is clearly a horrible individual - one of the regrettable majority of football fans who give the rest a bad name - but I can't see how what he did constitutes a crime. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to say things which are horrible or tasteless or with which we disagree or which might rile those in authority. Otherwise it isn't really freedom at all.
Clearly he merits a good kicking however.
Does anyone think that any country, anywhere in the world has absolute freedom of speech? Of course they don't. In this case if the idiot wants to be free to be grossly insulting to a dead child, then I think others ought to have the freedom to kick the shit out of him without punishment...
I think what you've just said is worse than what that Sunderland fan said.
Mocking dead children is gross but it's better than saying that someone should be beaten into a bloody pulp for airing their gross views.
How many more will we tolerate? Man had his throat ripped out
Muzzle them NOW by LAW and cull them all by Christmas
This should be the government's priority, not smoking.
That would be too logical ! Any ban will take ages to implement because of the do gooders who will bleat about their dogs caught up in any ban . Personally if it looks like one of those killing machines it should be banned .
Andy Street on BBC very disappointed in decision but this is a good compromise position
Considering HS2 still goes to London from Birmingham, and that the money saved from the more northerly sections will now partly be used in the Midlands, it's not a surprise he thinks it's a good compromise.
I notice it was also going to be used in other parts of the country. The cynic in me imagines every two bit transport project anywhere in England over the next decade will be allocated to "HS2 savings".
"...and that the money saved from the more northerly sections will now partly be used in the Midlands"
It will not. The money will never get out of the treasury.
Perhaps. But the Midlands don't get quite the same shafting.
I'm having another look at the details of the transport announcement - and it appears to be the Trans-Pennine non-upgrade again. Remember how they curtailed the NPR scheme and made bonkers claims for journey time upgrades which were widely ridiculed as impossible?
They've announced £500m for the "Manchester North West Quadrant". That isn't a ready to go scheme - its a study due to start in 2025. £300m for 9 smaller routes including the Wigan East West Route (£220m alone) - no way that £300m covers that £1bn for the Tees Valley. On what? Is it going where the rest of the money has gone? £2.5bn West Yorkshire Mass Transit system - in other words the existing rail lines when you look at what it is and where it goes. Later on it describes giving West Yorkshire only £1.3m of which £500m is a "downpayment" to the metro scheme - so short by £2bn and thus not happening Hull added to NPR, slashing Leeds - Hull journey times to 48 minutes. For 49 miles. So 60mph average. Wooooooo I was wrong about The Stocksbridge line going Tram-Train - its heavy rail to Chesterfield one way and Stocksbridge the other. Sheffield council is very against doing anything as disconnected as reopening Sheffield Victoria station (mentioned repeatedly in the government release) but we know councils are communist and need to be ignored, so...
I could go on. Its painfully bad. Like the Treasury asked for a shopping list of things they could announce which has been pasted together by people who don;t know the schemes or the places or can be arsed to read what has gone out. It is openly contradictory to itself and repeats the same points.
I suspect that HS2 to Manchester is now dead. I doubt the Labour Party are going to resurrect this now. The Tories have made the decision to kill it. It gives Labour cover to say the money has been earmarked to spend elsewhere etc and they can’t promise to reinstate it without a look at the figures (at which point they will conclude that they are better not reopening that particular can of worms).
It is a shambolic end to a shambolic project, but an end it is.
Prediction: SKS will make a speech with a discernable narrative arc and with a couple of policies that feed into that arc.
After today, that will feel like a wonder, and a general impression will filter through to the casual voter.
Labour polling average lead back up around or slightly over 20 for October.
It's difficult to see what those policies would be. They have to cost no money and not be too alarming to either our socially conservative gerontocracy or trisomic leavers in the Northern oblasts.
Prediction: SKS will make a speech with a discernable narrative arc and with a couple of policies that feed into that arc.
After today, that will feel like a wonder, and a general impression will filter through to the casual voter.
Labour polling average lead back up around or slightly over 20 for October.
I think that's right. Despite all Sunak's announcements today, there was no metanarrative about what he really stands for or what he wants to achieve as PM. It was rather scattergun and a bit random. Starmer will want to come up with an overarching narrative.
And, despite what some may say, Labour is quite right not to come out with a statement today about the HS2 news. They'll want to take their time to work out a successful line to take. One of Starmer's strengths is that he usually avoids knee-jerk pronouncements that then backfire.
Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
I suspect there might be a push for an IDS style replacement with a trusted elder who is just there to steady the ship.
Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
The Tories are so split that no one has the numbers to make their move.
How many more will we tolerate? Man had his throat ripped out
Muzzle them NOW by LAW and cull them all by Christmas
This should be the government's priority, not smoking.
That would be too logical ! Any ban will take ages to implement because of the do gooders who will bleat about their dogs caught up in any ban . Personally if it looks like one of those killing machines it should be banned .
Glad it's been destroyed but I'm surprised they shot he dog. Who would have shot it? The police I suppose - but the police wouldn't have attended with guns. I would have thought that the dog would be taken to a vet to be put down.
Prediction: SKS will make a speech with a discernable narrative arc and with a couple of policies that feed into that arc.
After today, that will feel like a wonder, and a general impression will filter through to the casual voter.
Labour polling average lead back up around or slightly over 20 for October.
It's difficult to see what those policies would be. They have to cost no money and not be too alarming to either our socially conservative gerontocracy or trisomic leavers in the Northern oblasts.
Compulsory Union Jack stickers on all toy trains (whether made in India, China or not)? Tho' that would wind up the rivet-counting enthusiasts cos not an accurate part of Wantage Tramway livery etc., so perhaps not.
There is a difference between free speech and freedom to say what you want without impunity. Nobody prevented the football fan in the first place.
I'm not sure I agree. This fella is clearly a horrible individual - one of the regrettable majority of football fans who give the rest a bad name - but I can't see how what he did constitutes a crime. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to say things which are horrible or tasteless or with which we disagree or which might rile those in authority. Otherwise it isn't really freedom at all.
Clearly he merits a good kicking however.
Does anyone think that any country, anywhere in the world has absolute freedom of speech? Of course they don't. In this case if the idiot wants to be free to be grossly insulting to a dead child, then I think others ought to have the freedom to kick the shit out of him without punishment...
So we should be allowed to kill people who say things we find disagreeable?
Which is exactly the opposite of what I said. You are NOT allowed to kick the shit of out him for being a stupid, ignorant idiot, so society has other ways to stop the behaviour.
I suspect that HS2 to Manchester is now dead. I doubt the Labour Party are going to resurrect this now. The Tories have made the decision to kill it. It gives Labour cover to say the money has been earmarked to spend elsewhere etc and they can’t promise to reinstate it without a look at the figures (at which point they will conclude that they are better not reopening that particular can of worms).
It is a shambolic end to a shambolic project, but an end it is.
Don't be so sure. Two reasons: 1 HS2b is to partly be built - "£12bn for Liverpool- Manchester" tweets Richy, though that sum is then missed out completely and not referred to as part of Network North. So is NPR separate to NN? Either way, its 2b from Manchester Piccadilly, past the Airport and onto the HS2 delta which would currently only be built towards Warrington. 2 HS2 Euston to be managed separately. Lets assume the new management team manage to slash costs significantly - the same team could then be put to work extending 2b to Crewe and then a "close the Potteries Gap" scheme to connect Crewe to Handsacre at much lower cost
The Tories have just announced fantasy money to be spent on fantasy schemes like the Manchester North West Quadrant road project (Underpants Gnomes phase 2), or "connecting Hull to NPR" with a colossal 60mph train of the future.
Prediction: SKS will make a speech with a discernable narrative arc and with a couple of policies that feed into that arc.
After today, that will feel like a wonder, and a general impression will filter through to the casual voter.
Labour polling average lead back up around or slightly over 20 for October.
Also prediction: the Westminster journalists, left and right (excepting the stenographers at the Mail and Telegraph) will be desperate for some sort of success narrative from anywhere they can get it. Their storytelling instincts will be crying out for the positive story to mirror the negative ones. They need the yin and yang, dark and light. So they'll be travelling to Liverpool in hope. You saw this during the Brexit years when they tended to fixate on princes across the water within the Tory party, either on the remainer/compromise or ultra-Brexiteer wings.
So if Starmer and his shadow cabinet (especially his shadow cabinet) give moderately good, solid performances they will be ready to laud them and exaggerate the differences.
And a note for those who spent years screeching: "It's the wrong project! I want project X instead!"
There is a need for HS2. It may not directly benefit you, but your screeching has really, really helped kill off so many of its benefits. So when *you* are asking for project X, expect others not directly helped by it to screech - and for your project not to go ahead. Your screeching has hurt infrastructure investment.
The correct answer is to go: "Cool! Now, what about project X? I reckon it has a better business case, and you let that go ahead..."
Because killing off a project does not mean that the money automagically goes to your favoured thing.
There is a difference between free speech and freedom to say what you want without impunity. Nobody prevented the football fan in the first place.
I'm not sure I agree. This fella is clearly a horrible individual - one of the regrettable majority of football fans who give the rest a bad name - but I can't see how what he did constitutes a crime. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to say things which are horrible or tasteless or with which we disagree or which might rile those in authority. Otherwise it isn't really freedom at all.
Clearly he merits a good kicking however.
Does anyone think that any country, anywhere in the world has absolute freedom of speech? Of course they don't. In this case if the idiot wants to be free to be grossly insulting to a dead child, then I think others ought to have the freedom to kick the shit out of him without punishment...
I think what you've just said is worse than what that Sunderland fan said.
Mocking dead children is gross but it's better than saying that someone should be beaten into a bloody pulp for airing their gross views.
Which is not what I said. I don't think anyone should be able to assault someone - because society has other ways to punish people.
Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
I suspect there might be a push for an IDS style replacement with a trusted elder who is just there to steady the ship.
If anyone knows any, let me (or Sir Graham) know.
The elders:
T.May Hunt
Struggling with that kind of figure in the commons after that, even scanning the list by seniority.
Sunak has at least now proved that it's possible to have four PMs in a row from the same party, each successively worse than the last.
Five, depending on how you view Cameron.
Cameron was somewhat devious, giving the impression of a nice chap when he was in fact well out of his depth. I’ll never forget how unkind May showed herself over that immigration poster.
Sunak has at least now proved that it's possible to have four PMs in a row from the same party, each successively worse than the last.
Five, depending on how you view Cameron.
1. Cameron ... 2. May 3. Sunak ... ... 4. Truss 5. Johnson
Oh Cameron was worse than Major - simply because of Brexit...
The most recent two good PMs were Major and Blair IMO.
Cameron was a fine PM - as leader of a LibCon Alliance.
As a Tory PM, he was poor.
If Cameron had lost in 2015, he would not be considered a total failure and one of our worst PMs. Knowing when to get out is key. Blair is the only PM who timed his exit right. And even then, he got lucky.
The idea that Ds should have bailed out McCarthy is a codicil of the larger logic of DC punditry in which R bad behavior/destruction is assumed, a baseline like weather, and Ds managing the consequences of that behavior is a given. It’s part of DC being hardwired for the GOP. https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1709568786389443026
The Government today announced it will extend the Metrolink to Manchester Airport
Only one problem... that tram line was opened in 2014
Lol 😂
In research at Uni its common practice to put in grant applications to study things that have already been shown by your group to work.* Nothing like smashing success out of the park when you know the stuff is going to wotk.
"A railway station is proposed on the Sheffield–Lincoln line which is adjacent to the parish. In 2020, the government announced that it would provide funding for a feasibility study, as part of the Restoring Your Railway scheme"
The Government today announced it will extend the Metrolink to Manchester Airport
Only one problem... that tram line was opened in 2014
Lol 😂
In research at Uni its common practice to put in grant applications to study things that have already been shown by your group to work. Nothing like smashing success out of the park when you know the stuff is going to wotk.
So they've already smashed one target this week!
There is a missing part though, Wythenshawe was meant to be a loop
This may be completing that loop and adding another stop at the hospital Newall Green, Davenport and terminal 2
Today’s decision on HS2 is the wrong one. It will help to fuel the views of those who argue that we can no longer think or act for the long-term as a country; that we are heading in the wrong direction.
HS2 was about investing for the long-term, bringing the country together, ensuring a more balanced economy and delivering the Northern Powerhouse. We achieved historic, cross-party support, with extensive buy-in from city and local authority leaders across the Midlands and North of England. Today’s announcement throws away fifteen years of cross-party consensus, sustained over six administrations, and will make it much harder to build consensus for any future long-term projects.
All across the world, we see transformative, long-term infrastructure projects completed or underway. They show countries on the rise, building for future generations, thinking big and getting things done.
I regret this decision and in years to come I suspect many will look back at today’s announcement and wonder how this once-in-a-generation opportunity was lost.
Today’s decision on HS2 is the wrong one. It will help to fuel the views of those who argue that we can no longer think or act for the long-term as a country; that we are heading in the wrong direction.
HS2 was about investing for the long-term, bringing the country together, ensuring a more balanced economy and delivering the Northern Powerhouse. We achieved historic, cross-party support, with extensive buy-in from city and local authority leaders across the Midlands and North of England. Today’s announcement throws away fifteen years of cross-party consensus, sustained over six administrations, and will make it much harder to build consensus for any future long-term projects.
All across the world, we see transformative, long-term infrastructure projects completed or underway. They show countries on the rise, building for future generations, thinking big and getting things done.
I regret this decision and in years to come I suspect many will look back at today’s announcement and wonder how this once-in-a-generation opportunity was lost.
Today’s decision on HS2 is the wrong one. It will help to fuel the views of those who argue that we can no longer think or act for the long-term as a country; that we are heading in the wrong direction.
HS2 was about investing for the long-term, bringing the country together, ensuring a more balanced economy and delivering the Northern Powerhouse. We achieved historic, cross-party support, with extensive buy-in from city and local authority leaders across the Midlands and North of England. Today’s announcement throws away fifteen years of cross-party consensus, sustained over six administrations, and will make it much harder to build consensus for any future long-term projects.
All across the world, we see transformative, long-term infrastructure projects completed or underway. They show countries on the rise, building for future generations, thinking big and getting things done.
I regret this decision and in years to come I suspect many will look back at today’s announcement and wonder how this once-in-a-generation opportunity was lost.
Today’s decision on HS2 is the wrong one. It will help to fuel the views of those who argue that we can no longer think or act for the long-term as a country; that we are heading in the wrong direction.
HS2 was about investing for the long-term, bringing the country together, ensuring a more balanced economy and delivering the Northern Powerhouse. We achieved historic, cross-party support, with extensive buy-in from city and local authority leaders across the Midlands and North of England. Today’s announcement throws away fifteen years of cross-party consensus, sustained over six administrations, and will make it much harder to build consensus for any future long-term projects.
All across the world, we see transformative, long-term infrastructure projects completed or underway. They show countries on the rise, building for future generations, thinking big and getting things done.
I regret this decision and in years to come I suspect many will look back at today’s announcement and wonder how this once-in-a-generation opportunity was lost.
Bloody hell. I never imagined that I would agree with a word of anything David Cameron said. But I find myself agreeing with every single word of his pronouncement on HS2 - he's nailed it perfectly. What a strange world it is.
Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
I suspect there might be a push for an IDS style replacement with a trusted elder who is just there to steady the ship.
If anyone knows any, let me (or Sir Graham) know.
The elders:
T.May Hunt
Struggling with that kind of figure in the commons after that, even scanning the list by seniority.
Nah, needs to be someone who has never run or wanted to run before.
Today’s decision on HS2 is the wrong one. It will help to fuel the views of those who argue that we can no longer think or act for the long-term as a country; that we are heading in the wrong direction.
HS2 was about investing for the long-term, bringing the country together, ensuring a more balanced economy and delivering the Northern Powerhouse. We achieved historic, cross-party support, with extensive buy-in from city and local authority leaders across the Midlands and North of England. Today’s announcement throws away fifteen years of cross-party consensus, sustained over six administrations, and will make it much harder to build consensus for any future long-term projects.
All across the world, we see transformative, long-term infrastructure projects completed or underway. They show countries on the rise, building for future generations, thinking big and getting things done.
I regret this decision and in years to come I suspect many will look back at today’s announcement and wonder how this once-in-a-generation opportunity was lost.
Ouch. Talking about regrets and lost opportunities to unite the country really sting from the genius behind the Brexit referendum.
You can equally blame the Brexit referendum on decisions made by Blair; like not limiting eastern European immigration, as many EU countries did.
To some extent, Cameron was left in an impossible situation. I reckon before now, there would have been a referendum on the EU. Either that, or a UKIP government.
‘There is, to put it baldly, no right not to be offended. To be sure, that doesn’t mean that deliberately offending people for its own sake is morally acceptable, or that people should be entitled to use speech to incite violence, harass, or threaten. Rather, it means that the impulse to punish people who offend is a regressive urge’
“When we do become offended, as we all will, we must settle for responding with criticism or contempt, and stop short of demanding that the offender be punished or required to make restitution,” Rauch wrote. “If you are unwilling to shoulder that obligation, if you insist on punishing people who say or believe ‘hurtful’ things (as opposed to telling them why they are wrong, or just ignoring them) then you cannot fairly expect to share in the peace, freedom, and problem-solving success that liberal science is uniquely able to provide; indeed, you are putting those very benefits at risk.”
The guy is an idiot, but that is merely crass, and shouldn't be a crime.
Is burning the Koran merely crass? Or poppies at a Remembrance ceremony?
Yes, I don't think either should be illegal.
Burning the QuranBible/Flag/Poppies should not per-se be illegall. But if this is done with the specific intention of provoking a reaction from a specific group (which with Quran/Bible burning it usually it) then this should be a crime, or at least an offence. There havve been rediculous cases in Sweden and Denmark recently where because of strong free speech laws, individuals have made public offensive acts of Quran burning in the knowledge that they can't be arrested for it.
Listening to the media it seems there is support with the public in the north
I would suggest Sunak needs to gather the northern mayors at no 10 to agree the way forward and to have regular meetings
Where is labour's response ?
I can tell you don't use the trains in the North, particularly Manchester.
No-one uses trains in the north other than certain parts of the chattering classes. As those chattering classes include journalists, the media is making a huge fuss. For most ordinary people it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. It was a vast waste of public money to subsidise the chattering classes. Now we're probably going to waste the money on something else.
I'm having another look at the details of the transport announcement - and it appears to be the Trans-Pennine non-upgrade again. Remember how they curtailed the NPR scheme and made bonkers claims for journey time upgrades which were widely ridiculed as impossible?
They've announced £500m for the "Manchester North West Quadrant". That isn't a ready to go scheme - its a study due to start in 2025. £300m for 9 smaller routes including the Wigan East West Route (£220m alone) - no way that £300m covers that £1bn for the Tees Valley. On what? Is it going where the rest of the money has gone? £2.5bn West Yorkshire Mass Transit system - in other words the existing rail lines when you look at what it is and where it goes. Later on it describes giving West Yorkshire only £1.3m of which £500m is a "downpayment" to the metro scheme - so short by £2bn and thus not happening Hull added to NPR, slashing Leeds - Hull journey times to 48 minutes. For 49 miles. So 60mph average. Wooooooo I was wrong about The Stocksbridge line going Tram-Train - its heavy rail to Chesterfield one way and Stocksbridge the other. Sheffield council is very against doing anything as disconnected as reopening Sheffield Victoria station (mentioned repeatedly in the government release) but we know councils are communist and need to be ignored, so...
I could go on. Its painfully bad. Like the Treasury asked for a shopping list of things they could announce which has been pasted together by people who don;t know the schemes or the places or can be arsed to read what has gone out. It is openly contradictory to itself and repeats the same points.
It's enough for Big_G. Core vote, I guess.
They don't need actually to do any of this stuff. They just need a fig leaf that won't entirely wither away before the election.
I don't disagree with Cameron about HS2, but Sunak would be pretty happy about being cast as an iconoclast taking on a fifteen year cross party consensus.
Sunak has at least now proved that it's possible to have four PMs in a row from the same party, each successively worse than the last.
Five, depending on how you view Cameron.
1. Cameron ... 2. May 3. Sunak ... ... 4. Truss 5. Johnson
Oh Cameron was worse than Major - simply because of Brexit...
Hard to compare Cameron and Major. Different eras.
Didn't Cameron become PM roughly halfway between Major losing in1997 and today?
Yes. But eras are defined by mindsets more than passage of time. Cameron is a product of the Blair/post-Blair era. A lot changed across the 1997-2001 time.
The guy is an idiot, but that is merely crass, and shouldn't be a crime.
Is burning the Koran merely crass? Or poppies at a Remembrance ceremony?
Yes, I don't think either should be illegal.
Burning the QuranBible/Flag/Poppies should not per-se be illegall. But if this is done with the specific intention of provoking a reaction from a specific group (which with Quran/Bible burning it usually it) then this should be a crime, or at least an offence. There havve been rediculous cases in Sweden and Denmark recently where because of strong free speech laws, individuals have made public offensive acts of Quran burning in the knowledge that they can't be arrested for it.
"But if this is done with the specific intention of provoking a reaction from a specific group (which with Quran/Bible burning it usually it) then this should be a crime, or at least an offence." This is similar here - it was done to provoke a reaction.
Of course supporting a football club is not a protected characteristic, I get that, but I think this is more about the effect on the family.
Today’s decision on HS2 is the wrong one. It will help to fuel the views of those who argue that we can no longer think or act for the long-term as a country; that we are heading in the wrong direction.
HS2 was about investing for the long-term, bringing the country together, ensuring a more balanced economy and delivering the Northern Powerhouse. We achieved historic, cross-party support, with extensive buy-in from city and local authority leaders across the Midlands and North of England. Today’s announcement throws away fifteen years of cross-party consensus, sustained over six administrations, and will make it much harder to build consensus for any future long-term projects.
All across the world, we see transformative, long-term infrastructure projects completed or underway. They show countries on the rise, building for future generations, thinking big and getting things done.
I regret this decision and in years to come I suspect many will look back at today’s announcement and wonder how this once-in-a-generation opportunity was lost.
Because they tried to save money in ways that ended up being more expensive.
It's project - create a spec and leave people to build it.
Changes just add delays and extra (paperwork) costs regardless of the perceived advantages. So unless something has fundamental flaws - kick off the project and leave people to it.
"A railway station is proposed on the Sheffield–Lincoln line which is adjacent to the parish. In 2020, the government announced that it would provide funding for a feasibility study, as part of the Restoring Your Railway scheme"
The guy is an idiot, but that is merely crass, and shouldn't be a crime.
Is burning the Koran merely crass? Or poppies at a Remembrance ceremony?
Yes, I don't think either should be illegal.
Burning the QuranBible/Flag/Poppies should not per-se be illegall. But if this is done with the specific intention of provoking a reaction from a specific group (which with Quran/Bible burning it usually it) then this should be a crime, or at least an offence. There havve been rediculous cases in Sweden and Denmark recently where because of strong free speech laws, individuals have made public offensive acts of Quran burning in the knowledge that they can't be arrested for it.
The problem is entirely with those who get worked up into a froth. Sorry, Rasmus Paludin is a fucking idiot but if he wants to burn a Quran the fact that other people believe it to be a sacred object is their problem, not his. I wish he would stop, but he won't so long as he gets the reaction he wants to get.
Listening to the media it seems there is support with the public in the north
I would suggest Sunak needs to gather the northern mayors at no 10 to agree the way forward and to have regular meetings
Where is labour's response ?
I can tell you don't use the trains in the North, particularly Manchester.
No-one uses trains in the north other than certain parts of the chattering classes. As those chattering classes include journalists, the media is making a huge fuss. For most ordinary people it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. It was a vast waste of public money to subsidise the chattering classes. Now we're probably going to waste the money on something else.
Yep - you can't trust them so you end up driving instead....
And they've announced it yet again. There aren't actually schemes ready to go - same with the laughable announcement for the Mcr NW Quadrant scheme. And in other places we don't know what has been announced (£2.5bn for WY Metro or £500m? And what is it?) or why we should be excited (60mph trains to Hull).
Oh, and: electrifying the North Wales Coast main line. This is a good thing. Wouldn't be the top of anyone's list of electrifications, but hey.
Just one thing. There is a very expensive fleet of 13 trains with diesel engines currently being built expressly for this line. Would it not... you know... have been more sensible to decide on the motive power before ordering the trains?
I personally thought a lot of the ambition and vision that was appealing re HS2 was lost when the Eastern leg was cancelled, for what it’s worth. This latest update is scandalous too, but I feel like there should have been similar noises made when the first scaling back occurred.
(On Leicester, though, interesting that they've promised to reopen "the Ivanhoe Line between Leicester and Burton". Because Network Rail's plan, briefed out about a fortnight ago, is only to do Ashby-Burton for now, not Leicester-Ashby. There are real complications at the Leicester end. I would like to think this means they're going to do the lot but I suspect it's just lazy wording on the Government's part.)
Oh, and: electrifying the North Wales Coast main line. This is a good thing. Wouldn't be the top of anyone's list of electrifications, but hey.
Just one thing. There is a very expensive fleet of 13 trains with diesel engines currently being built expressly for this line. Would it not... you know... have been more sensible to decide on the motive power before ordering the trains?
Sunak and the Tories are not going to have the job of implementing these projects. The purpose is entirely to create a trap for Labour on taxation and spending.
Sunak has at least now proved that it's possible to have four PMs in a row from the same party, each successively worse than the last.
Five, depending on how you view Cameron.
1. Cameron ... 2. May 3. Sunak ... ... 4. Truss 5. Johnson
Oh Cameron was worse than Major - simply because of Brexit...
The most recent two good PMs were Major and Blair IMO.
Cameron was a fine PM - as leader of a LibCon Alliance.
As a Tory PM, he was poor.
If Cameron had lost in 2015, he would not be considered a total failure and one of our worst PMs. Knowing when to get out is key. Blair is the only PM who timed his exit right. And even then, he got lucky.
But I don't think it helped him in the short term. For many years he was pretty reviled, and even now there's only a tentative reappraisal of his time as PM. I reckon most people are still hostile to Blair.
And in this case, I go back to the point, what "freedom of speech" was he trying to make or say? Is he laughing because a six year old kid died of cancer? Makes him stupid or a despicable human being, or both.
Surely we can agree being stupid is not a crime?
Even being a despicable human being, or more accurately a human being acting despicably, should be insufficient on its own to be a crime.
The point of protecting free speech is not to protect those making lovely, logical and correct statements, but to allow the people we disagree with, who are indeed often a bit stupid and occassionally despicable to speak freely.
Maybe - I think a society has the right to enforce social mores, or that society risks falling apart. Being able to give offence in this way without come back does not seem right to me. A bit like people burning poppies - some assert that that is a freedom of speech issue too, but others are gravely offended. Or worse - burning a Bible or a Koran.
Comedy relies on punching up. Thats why its seen as ok to insult the rich, or the government as they have money and power. You don't punch down. So mocking a poor dead child and his family is really beyond the pale. As I say - what freedom of speech point is made here?
The comeback should be social, not legal.
His football club should ban him, his relationships with friends and family will be damaged or at risk of being damaged, it could impact his job if his employers think it beyond the pale and damaging to their business or he relies on the public as customers. All that is fine and sufficient.
Freedom of speech was never supposed to be freedom of speech for points deemed worthy by turbotubbs or anyone else.
Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
If someone won now, then lost the election, there wouldn't be a post-election contest. It would be recognised that the election wasn't winnable and they would be given a chance.
Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
If someone won now, then lost the election, there wouldn't be a post-election contest. It would be recognised that the election wasn't winnable and they would be given a chance.
You think the current iteration of the Converative Party is able to apply that degree of thinking to it?
All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
‘There is, to put it baldly, no right not to be offended. To be sure, that doesn’t mean that deliberately offending people for its own sake is morally acceptable, or that people should be entitled to use speech to incite violence, harass, or threaten. Rather, it means that the impulse to punish people who offend is a regressive urge’
“When we do become offended, as we all will, we must settle for responding with criticism or contempt, and stop short of demanding that the offender be punished or required to make restitution,” Rauch wrote. “If you are unwilling to shoulder that obligation, if you insist on punishing people who say or believe ‘hurtful’ things (as opposed to telling them why they are wrong, or just ignoring them) then you cannot fairly expect to share in the peace, freedom, and problem-solving success that liberal science is uniquely able to provide; indeed, you are putting those very benefits at risk.”
I badly need to point out that the entirety of English libel/slander/defamation law disagrees with that.
All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
Oh, and: electrifying the North Wales Coast main line. This is a good thing. Wouldn't be the top of anyone's list of electrifications, but hey.
Just one thing. There is a very expensive fleet of 13 trains with diesel engines currently being built expressly for this line. Would it not... you know... have been more sensible to decide on the motive power before ordering the trains?
I shouldn't worry too much. Between Notwork Fail and the DFT, said trains will probably have been worn out and replaced before any knitting is actually errected along the coast.
I don't know if HS2 was the right or wrong thing. I think its been mishandled spectacularly, and now a much reduced stump will be built. What concerns me is the inevitable inflation in the projected costs.
I know that some on PB understand this far better than me. Why do projects always balloon in costs so much? Is it false accounting at the start, changes to plans? Or something else?
Network North looks (as a whole) very large in it's scope. Is there a secret bunch of contractors Rishi is going to find to do all this for £36 Bn ?
If Sunak correct in saying HS2 to Manchester wouldn't open for over 2 decades, then we are talking less than £1.8bn a year. Sounds like a lot less then (i.e. one new train station in Bradford would be over a years money). I suspect over promising and under delivering in the eyes of the public is fairly inevitable.
I don't know if HS2 was the right or wrong thing. I think its been mishandled spectacularly, and now a much reduced stump will be built. What concerns me is the inevitable inflation in the projected costs.
I know that some on PB understand this far better than me. Why do projects always balloon in costs so much? Is it false accounting at the start, changes to plans? Or something else?
They don't always. It's just that when it does, it's newsworthy and so you hear about it.
And they've announced it yet again. There aren't actually schemes ready to go - same with the laughable announcement for the Mcr NW Quadrant scheme. And in other places we don't know what has been announced (£2.5bn for WY Metro or £500m? And what is it?) or why we should be excited (60mph trains to Hull).
The whole Network North thing looks like something thrown together over a few days or weeks, and that probably explains the ropey logo which looks like they got it off of Fiverr.
What's going on is the opposite of difficult decisions for the long term good. No. 10 must be expecting an apocalyptic result in the general election judging by the way they have been behaving recently.
Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
If someone won now, then lost the election, there wouldn't be a post-election contest. It would be recognised that the election wasn't winnable and they would be given a chance.
You think the current iteration of the Converative Party is able to apply that degree of thinking to it?
To a leadership election? I don't know. There certainly shouldn't be another full one with televised hustings etc. There's also no obvious choice. Mordaunt has seemed to be the one for a while, but she's faded away again with Braverman taking the spotlight.
Ooof. The Telegraph, of all places, unimpressed with Sunak.
"Mordaunt ended with a rallying cry for the Conservative Party to “stand up and fight!” In fairness, it does appear to be doing that. Unfortunately, the party is now entering the “drunken tramp” phase of its existence, where it appears to be swinging randomly at either imagined antagonists or, more often, itself while shouting bizarre phrases into the ether. While the temptation is to stop and stare, some people in the park are beginning to avert their gaze in a sort of infectious embarrassment."
"There seemed to be real steel in the PM’s voice. Boy, I’d hate to be there when he gets his hands on whoever it is that’s been running the country for the last 13 years."
"It’s ironic that he’s banned smoking, given the enormous bong that he and his staffers must have huffed on at length to think that this was a good idea."
Christian Wolmar @christianwolmar · 1h Extraordinary but I'm told @networkrail was not consulted on today's rail announcement on Network North nor was it asked for advice or information. The company is awaiting further information.
I don't know if HS2 was the right or wrong thing. I think its been mishandled spectacularly, and now a much reduced stump will be built. What concerns me is the inevitable inflation in the projected costs.
I know that some on PB understand this far better than me. Why do projects always balloon in costs so much? Is it false accounting at the start, changes to plans? Or something else?
They don't always. It's just that when it does, it's newsworthy and so you hear about it.
The idea that Ds should have bailed out McCarthy is a codicil of the larger logic of DC punditry in which R bad behavior/destruction is assumed, a baseline like weather, and Ds managing the consequences of that behavior is a given. It’s part of DC being hardwired for the GOP. https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1709568786389443026
Following on from that, a pretty clear exposition by a Dem representative of why they voted against McCarthy remaining in post.
Pretty evident people don't understand a key piece of House Dems' thinking on McCarthy and governance of the House. The idea that we acted out of schadenfreude or pique with no thought to the legislative outlook is, of course, silly nonsense. Here's what the takes are missing-.. https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709559909488976279
Oh, and: electrifying the North Wales Coast main line. This is a good thing. Wouldn't be the top of anyone's list of electrifications, but hey.
Just one thing. There is a very expensive fleet of 13 trains with diesel engines currently being built expressly for this line. Would it not... you know... have been more sensible to decide on the motive power before ordering the trains?
Sunak and the Tories are not going to have the job of implementing these projects. The purpose is entirely to create a trap for Labour on taxation and spending.
It's very much a scorched earth policy.
If they were doing that, why bother cancelling HS2? Let it go ahead and Labour have to cancel it.
I don't know if HS2 was the right or wrong thing. I think its been mishandled spectacularly, and now a much reduced stump will be built. What concerns me is the inevitable inflation in the projected costs.
I know that some on PB understand this far better than me. Why do projects always balloon in costs so much? Is it false accounting at the start, changes to plans? Or something else?
Usually costs are minimised at the start to get buy in, then allowed to reach something approaching their true values once enough money has been spent to make pulling out politically difficult.
This goes on at all scales in public procurement - I was talking to a lad who works for the a contractor doing bridge replacement works last summer. He was telling me about one he was doing imminently, where the original cost was £8 million. I looked a bit stunned, knowing the complexity of the job in question and said something like "isn't that a bit optimistic?". Ah, he explained, it was now estimated as £29 million, and might still rise a bit.
Doubtless everyone with a brain knew all along it was a £30million job, but it had to be got down to £8million for long enough to get sign off...
Comments
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
Mocking dead children is gross but it's better than saying that someone should be beaten into a bloody pulp for airing their gross views.
But the Midlands don't get quite the same shafting.
Core vote, I guess.
It is a shambolic end to a shambolic project, but an end it is.
After today, that will feel like a wonder, and a general impression will filter through to the casual voter.
Labour polling average lead back up around or slightly over 20 for October.
Five, depending on how you view Cameron.
...
2. May
3. Sunak
...
...
4. Truss
5. Johnson
And, despite what some may say, Labour is quite right not to come out with a statement today about the HS2 news. They'll want to take their time to work out a successful line to take. One of Starmer's strengths is that he usually avoids knee-jerk pronouncements that then backfire.
If anyone knows any, let me (or Sir Graham) know.
Not with a bang but a wimp.
1 HS2b is to partly be built - "£12bn for Liverpool- Manchester" tweets Richy, though that sum is then missed out completely and not referred to as part of Network North. So is NPR separate to NN? Either way, its 2b from Manchester Piccadilly, past the Airport and onto the HS2 delta which would currently only be built towards Warrington.
2 HS2 Euston to be managed separately. Lets assume the new management team manage to slash costs significantly - the same team could then be put to work extending 2b to Crewe and then a "close the Potteries Gap" scheme to connect Crewe to Handsacre at much lower cost
The Tories have just announced fantasy money to be spent on fantasy schemes like the Manchester North West Quadrant road project (Underpants Gnomes phase 2), or "connecting Hull to NPR" with a colossal 60mph train of the future.
So if Starmer and his shadow cabinet (especially his shadow cabinet) give moderately good, solid performances they will be ready to laud them and exaggerate the differences.
There is a need for HS2. It may not directly benefit you, but your screeching has really, really helped kill off so many of its benefits. So when *you* are asking for project X, expect others not directly helped by it to screech - and for your project not to go ahead. Your screeching has hurt infrastructure investment.
The correct answer is to go: "Cool! Now, what about project X? I reckon it has a better business case, and you let that go ahead..."
Because killing off a project does not mean that the money automagically goes to your favoured thing.
@Andrew_Adonis
The figures don’t begin to add up in all those transport projects he announced. The cross-north rail scheme alone could cost £39bn - see estimate below - & will be subject to the same construction inflation as HS2. This is a fairy tale https://builduk.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Northern-Powerhouse-Rail-Factsheet.pdf
As a Tory PM, he was poor.
Bloody weird 12 year old if so.
T.May
Hunt
Struggling with that kind of figure in the commons after that, even scanning the list by seniority.
"g. Reopening Beeching lines to reconnect areas like County Durham, Burton, Stocksbridge and Waverley."
Waverley. Otherwise known as South-West Surrey. Otherwise known as Jeremy Hunt's constituency.
This is obviously some strange usage of the word "north" that I wasn't previously aware of.
Only one problem... that tram line was opened in 2014
Lol 😂
The idea that Ds should have bailed out McCarthy is a codicil of the larger logic of DC punditry in which R bad behavior/destruction is assumed, a baseline like weather, and Ds managing the consequences of that behavior is a given. It’s part of DC being hardwired for the GOP.
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1709568786389443026
So they've already smashed one target this week!
*To clarify - not published, so 'secret data'...
Not that that helps, as
"A railway station is proposed on the Sheffield–Lincoln line which is adjacent to the parish. In 2020, the government announced that it would provide funding for a feasibility study, as part of the Restoring Your Railway scheme"
I still have the taxi-delivered redundancy letter given to my mother.
How is Deggsy these days, anyway?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/XGS4E2Ytgf3wSMep8
This may be completing that loop and adding another stop at the hospital Newall Green, Davenport and terminal 2
Today’s decision on HS2 is the wrong one. It will help to fuel the views of those who argue that we can no longer think or act for the long-term as a country; that we are heading in the wrong direction.
HS2 was about investing for the long-term, bringing the country together, ensuring a more balanced economy and delivering the Northern Powerhouse. We achieved historic, cross-party support, with extensive buy-in from city and local authority leaders across the Midlands and North of England. Today’s announcement throws away fifteen years of cross-party consensus, sustained over six administrations, and will make it much harder to build consensus for any future long-term projects.
All across the world, we see transformative, long-term infrastructure projects completed or underway. They show countries on the rise, building for future generations, thinking big and getting things done.
I regret this decision and in years to come I suspect many will look back at today’s announcement and wonder how this once-in-a-generation opportunity was lost.
https://x.com/david_cameron/status/1709579002220867922?s=46
And from the right....
To some extent, Cameron was left in an impossible situation. I reckon before now, there would have been a referendum on the EU. Either that, or a UKIP government.
Ask which you'd really prefer.
https://bigthink.com/thinking/is-speech-violence/
‘There is, to put it baldly, no right not to be offended. To be sure, that doesn’t mean that deliberately offending people for its own sake is morally acceptable, or that people should be entitled to use speech to incite violence, harass, or threaten. Rather, it means that the impulse to punish people who offend is a regressive urge’
“When we do become offended, as we all will, we must settle for responding with criticism or contempt, and stop short of demanding that the offender be punished or required to make restitution,” Rauch wrote. “If you are unwilling to shoulder that obligation, if you insist on punishing people who say or believe ‘hurtful’ things (as opposed to telling them why they are wrong, or just ignoring them) then you cannot fairly expect to share in the peace, freedom, and problem-solving success that liberal science is uniquely able to provide; indeed, you are putting those very benefits at risk.”
As those chattering classes include journalists, the media is making a huge fuss.
For most ordinary people it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. It was a vast waste of public money to subsidise the chattering classes. Now we're probably going to waste the money on something else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2us957Gj7Y
There is nothing long term about this plan.
"One of the biggest cheers in Rishi Sunak's speech was his pledge to deliver an "A1 upgrade" (with scrapped HS2 funds).
Is this a new announcement?
No.
In fact, the story of the A1 upgrade under successive Conservative Prime Ministers truly is remarkable..🧵"
https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1709545543058202954
The status quo isn't enormously popular.
This is similar here - it was done to provoke a reaction.
Of course supporting a football club is not a protected characteristic, I get that, but I think this is more about the effect on the family.
Changes just add delays and extra (paperwork) costs regardless of the perceived advantages. So unless something has fundamental flaws - kick off the project and leave people to it.
And there was I thinking Edinburgh Waverley was the other one...
I wish he would stop, but he won't so long as he gets the reaction he wants to get.
Just one thing. There is a very expensive fleet of 13 trains with diesel engines currently being built expressly for this line. Would it not... you know... have been more sensible to decide on the motive power before ordering the trains?
"Rural counties such as Shropshire, smaller cities like Leicester and towns such as Evesham will receive funding"
Leicester is the 13th biggest urban area in Britain. It is not by any stretch a "smaller city".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom
(On Leicester, though, interesting that they've promised to reopen "the Ivanhoe Line between Leicester and Burton". Because Network Rail's plan, briefed out about a fortnight ago, is only to do Ashby-Burton for now, not Leicester-Ashby. There are real complications at the Leicester end. I would like to think this means they're going to do the lot but I suspect it's just lazy wording on the Government's part.)
It's very much a scorched earth policy.
His football club should ban him, his relationships with friends and family will be damaged or at risk of being damaged, it could impact his job if his employers think it beyond the pale and damaging to their business or he relies on the public as customers. All that is fine and sufficient.
Freedom of speech was never supposed to be freedom of speech for points deemed worthy by turbotubbs or anyone else.
What concerns me is the inevitable inflation in the projected costs.
I know that some on PB understand this far better than me. Why do projects always balloon in costs so much? Is it false accounting at the start, changes to plans? Or something else?
What's going on is the opposite of difficult decisions for the long term good. No. 10 must be expecting an apocalyptic result in the general election judging by the way they have been behaving recently.
"Mordaunt ended with a rallying cry for the Conservative Party to “stand up and fight!” In fairness, it does appear to be doing that. Unfortunately, the party is now entering the “drunken tramp” phase of its existence, where it appears to be swinging randomly at either imagined antagonists or, more often, itself while shouting bizarre phrases into the ether. While the temptation is to stop and stare, some people in the park are beginning to avert their gaze in a sort of infectious embarrassment."
"There seemed to be real steel in the PM’s voice. Boy, I’d hate to be there when he gets his hands on whoever it is that’s been running the country for the last 13 years."
"It’s ironic that he’s banned smoking, given the enormous bong that he and his staffers must have huffed on at length to think that this was a good idea."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/10/04/tory-party-drunken-tramp-phase-of-existence/
@christianwolmar
·
1h
Extraordinary but I'm told
@networkrail
was not consulted on today's rail announcement on Network North nor was it asked for advice or information. The company is awaiting further information.
Pretty evident people don't understand a key piece of House Dems' thinking on McCarthy and governance of the House. The idea that we acted out of schadenfreude or pique with no thought to the legislative outlook is, of course, silly nonsense. Here's what the takes are missing-..
https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709559909488976279
This goes on at all scales in public procurement - I was talking to a lad who works for the a contractor doing bridge replacement works last summer. He was telling me about one he was doing imminently, where the original cost was £8 million. I looked a bit stunned, knowing the complexity of the job in question and said something like "isn't that a bit optimistic?". Ah, he explained, it was now estimated as £29 million, and might still rise a bit.
Doubtless everyone with a brain knew all along it was a £30million job, but it had to be got down to £8million for long enough to get sign off...