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Rishi needs to define what Sunak-ism is to stand a chance – politicalbetting.com

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    Excellent announcement from Rishi on a whole range of new transport schemes in the North and Midlands, electrification of North Wales line and improved links between Scotland + NI funded by scrapping of final leg of HS2

    Thank you Lord Astor.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    This feels like the "new hospitals" line.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    A1 upgrade in there at least.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    What we're getting is Northern Powerhouse Rail schemes reannounced, and the money 'saved' from scrapping HS2 north being spent on it. There's nothing much new, and vast savings for the treasury.

    The other point, of course, is that any additional schemes are, for now, vapourware.
    Casino can no doubt advise on the sort of timescales before they become a reality.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Attacks doctors

    *Waves from Australia*
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    HYUFD said:

    Excellent announcement from Rishi on a whole range of new transport schemes in the North and Midlands, electrification of North Wales line and improved links between Scotland + NI funded by scrapping of final leg of HS2

    He should have just done both. After splurging paying for the energy bills of the middle class a year ago, what's an extra few tens of billions?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited October 2023
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    RobD said:

    viewcode said:

    @OGH, I love you to bits, but if you aren't the editor of the article you shouldn't be credited as the author in the heading. Ever since the site was refreshed from the old green "winning here" version, non-PB authors (other than Cyclefree) have been credited wrongly in the heading.

    The author is listed at the bottom, as it always is when it is a guest contribution.
    It's the accreditation at the top I was referring to. For example the following links exist In the older site individual authors had individual entries, but that's stopped. So the following links no longer exist If the site cannot create an entry for all the contributors, then there should be an "other", thus But there isn't. So at the moment Kieran Pedley's articles are accredited to mike-smithson. Hence my point.
    ...but there is an https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/author/editor/
    His name is at the bottom of the post, where the name of every contributor is usually given.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    Long list of transport projects that will never happen.

    I'm pretty sure that a fair number of them were already promised, so these aren't new projects, what's happened is the funding has been shifted from HS2 rather than having to raise new funds.

    I'll be very surprised if transport genuinely gets the full amount "saved" by the cancellation.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Nigelb said:

    What we're getting is Northern Powerhouse Rail schemes reannounced, and the money 'saved' from scrapping HS2 north being spent on it. There's nothing much new, and vast savings for the treasury.

    The other point, of course, is that any additional schemes are, for now, vapourware.
    Casino can no doubt advise on the sort of timescales before they become a reality.
    Yep it’s either projects that are already funded or pipe dreams that will disappear quietly in a year or so
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    "New politics" = same old snake oil. smoke, and mirrors.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Cookie said:

    "You can't have both" - so instead of £96bn for the Midlands and North, £36bn gets spread across the whole country. Wonder where the bulk of that will be spent?

    Crossrail 3 for London.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    "A reform plan for the NHS"

    Well, that always goes well and is proven to be a vote-winner.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Corporate manslaughter case being opened against Countess of Chester Hospital (i.e. Letby murders). Good.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    What we're getting is Northern Powerhouse Rail schemes reannounced, and the money 'saved' from scrapping HS2 north being spent on it. There's nothing much new, and vast savings for the treasury.

    You beat me to it. It's a con.
  • Cookie said:

    "You can't have both" - so instead of £96bn for the Midlands and North, £36bn gets spread across the whole country. Wonder where the bulk of that will be spent?

    Crossrail 3 for London.
    Crossrail 100!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    How much needs to be spent to undo Smart Motorways? They are dangerous and slow journeys down by hours in the event of an incident.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023

    £2 bus fare being kept: instinctually that seems a good idea, but I wonder how it has affected ridership...

    That's a huge con / negative in lots of places...as its £2 max per journey / for a single, all that has happened is returns / day tickets have gone up significantly. And of course most people need a return, as they need to get back from where they were going.

    If you really want to help out / incentivise bus travel, you need to be capping the returns / day tickets as well.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    What we're getting is Northern Powerhouse Rail schemes reannounced, and the money 'saved' from scrapping HS2 north being spent on it. There's nothing much new, and vast savings for the treasury.

    Yes, there was £96bn earmarked in the IRP for NPR and HS2. This is just the former without the latter. Except that the former will be missing a big section where it had to run on HS2 rails between Manchester and Manchester Airport.

    But I don't think they even mean that. I think we're talking Hope Valley upgrade, things of that scale.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    This smoking thing feels a bit 2002.

    Will he take on obesity too?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    I hate this Labour nanny state.

    Pass me the Woodbines.

    ( To be fair, I agree with him here)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,410
    Not sure about the first lady stuff.. seems a bit unBritish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Where are they going to build thousands of new homes at Euston?!
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Cookie said:

    What we're getting is Northern Powerhouse Rail schemes reannounced, and the money 'saved' from scrapping HS2 north being spent on it. There's nothing much new, and vast savings for the treasury.

    Yes, there was £96bn earmarked in the IRP for NPR and HS2. This is just the former without the latter. Except that the former will be missing a big section where it had to run on HS2 rails between Manchester and Manchester Airport.

    But I don't think they even mean that. I think we're talking Hope Valley upgrade, things of that scale.
    Blatant sleight of hand and tbh I don't think they'll get away with it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    What we're getting is Northern Powerhouse Rail schemes reannounced, and the money 'saved' from scrapping HS2 north being spent on it. There's nothing much new, and vast savings for the treasury.

    The other point, of course, is that any additional schemes are, for now, vapourware.
    Casino can no doubt advise on the sort of timescales before they become a reality.
    Yep it’s either projects that are already funded or pipe dreams that will disappear quietly in a year or so
    Sone projects can be done fairly quickly and cheaply given political will; see the Okehampton reopening (a year or two), or the Northumberland line (three to five years depending on when you set the 'start' date).

    But these are the low-hanging fruit, and others require much more time and money.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    glw said:

    Long list of transport projects that will never happen.

    I'm pretty sure that a fair number of them were already promised, so these aren't new projects, what's happened is the funding has been shifted from HS2 rather than having to raise new funds.

    I'll be very surprised if transport genuinely gets the full amount "saved" by the cancellation.
    Of course it won't; that's the point of not being able to afford it!

    Nice GBNews segment with Liam Halligan and Scarlet Maguire providing a little balance on HS2 curtailment.
    https://youtu.be/c6hv4uVzRac?si=C8plOjzUnic8D2Au
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Cookie said:

    "You can't have both" - so instead of £96bn for the Midlands and North, £36bn gets spread across the whole country. Wonder where the bulk of that will be spent?

    Crossrail 3 for London.
    Well crossrail 2 is now cheaper now the significant part of the Euston works are in the HS2 costs
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    "A reform plan for the NHS"

    Well, that always goes well and is proven to be a vote-winner.

    Smoking in young people. That's really THE ENTIRETY of the prevention plan for the NHS. Now?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Eabhal said:

    This smoking thing feels a bit 2002.

    Will he take on obesity too?

    Ban MaccieDs. I'll vote for that.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?
  • Eabhal said:

    This smoking thing feels a bit 2002.

    Will he take on obesity too?

    The only smokers round here are adult immigrants from Eastern Europe. I really cannot remember the last time I saw a teenager smoking.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Leon said:

    Where are they going to build thousands of new homes at Euston?!

    You'll just have to settle for High Speed Rail. Grim down south.
  • Leon said:

    Where are they going to build thousands of new homes at Euston?!

    On the HS2 platforms?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Presume that the Liz Truss gang will be boiling with anger over this attack on personal liberty that is his age-related smoking ban.

    Which just shows the tories are all over the place. She PM a year ago.
  • Eabhal said:

    This smoking thing feels a bit 2002.

    Will he take on obesity too?

    The only smokers round here are adult immigrants from Eastern Europe. I really cannot remember the last time I saw a teenager smoking.
    Where as if you don't see a teenager vaping its a shock.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,126

    Eabhal said:

    This smoking thing feels a bit 2002.

    Will he take on obesity too?

    The only smokers round here are adult immigrants from Eastern Europe. I really cannot remember the last time I saw a teenager smoking.
    I bet we end up spending more on pensions...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    edited October 2023
    BBC have helpfully listed what Sunak has announced - these are:
    - Protect the £12bn to link up Manchester and Liverpool as planned - this won't be with high-speed rail
    - Build the Midlands Rail Hub, connecting 50 stations
    - Help Andy Street extend the West Midlands Metro
    - Build the Leeds tram, electrify the North Wales main line
    - Upgrade the A1, the A2, the A5, the M6…
    - Connect our Union with the A75 boosting links between Scotland and Northern Ireland
    - Fund the Shipley bypass, the Blyth relief road and deliver 70 other road schemes
    - Resurface roads across the country
    - Bring back the Don Valley line
    - Upgrade the energy coast line between Carlisle, Workington and Barrow

    This, I would suggest, amount to even less than I'd feared.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    Where are they going to build thousands of new homes at Euston?!

    Overlooking your pied de terre.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    £2 bus fare being kept: instinctually that seems a good idea, but I wonder how it has affected ridership...

    That's a huge con / negative in lots of places...as its £2 max per journey / for a single, all that has happened is returns / day tickets have gone up significantly. And of course most people need a return, as they need to get back from where they were going.

    If you really want to help out / incentivise bus travel, you need to be capping the returns / day tickets as well.
    And have routes and timetables that people need.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?

    IHT reform?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    OT, I could see Sunak losing ground and Starmer gaining ground during the course of an election campaign. The public see Starmer as a bit of a blank sheet of paper, he's really not that well known, so a campaign with him more in the forefront along with a fairly presentable shadow cabinet might boost favourability. He isn't inspirational but generally comes across as less wooden in practice than his reputation.

    The public at least until recently saw Sunak as a dull but safe pair of hands. A election campaign may well show up his petulance and irritation at being asked difficult questions. We've already seen a bit of this during conference.

    Some friends of mine know Starmer well and say that in private he is charming, relaxed and very humorous, very different from his public image. They find it a bit frustrating that he does not show that side of himself though I can see why he does not.

    Sunak - like a a lot of people in the City - is not used to being challenged and has not had a lot of experience of this in politics. It shows. It's a mark of inexperience. I know that we don't want geriatrics in power as in the US but too many of our politicians are put in senior positions too early: Sunak is one such and has not been able to learn from his mistakes, possibly because he has been dazzled by his early PR coups during Covid.
    I think he comes across well in more long-form interviews: e.g. this BBC one with Nick Robinson, https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001r6jn/political-thinking-with-nick-robinson-55-the-keir-starmer-2023-one I think he’ll be fine during a general election campaign. (Davey too.) More exposure will dispel the Conservative attempts to define him otherwise.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Not sure about the first lady stuff.. seems a bit unBritish.

    Agree.
    In any case, the first man is Charles III, and the first lady is his consort.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?

    It better be a big one.

    Invasion of Russia, reintroduction of capital punishment, or strafing the boats.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?

    IHT reform?
    Yes, that seems highly plausible.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited October 2023

    Eabhal said:

    This smoking thing feels a bit 2002.

    Will he take on obesity too?

    The only smokers round here are adult immigrants from Eastern Europe. I really cannot remember the last time I saw a teenager smoking.
    Where as if you don't see a teenager vaping its a shock.
    Rishi is ahead of us on vaping. Whether vaping prevents smoking is not considered.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Pro_Rata said:

    "A reform plan for the NHS"

    Well, that always goes well and is proven to be a vote-winner.

    Smoking in young people. That's really THE ENTIRETY of the prevention plan for the NHS. Now?
    Nothing on child obesity, dementia, mental health, social care costs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023
    To be honest, I don't know how anybody, let alone young people could afford to smoke ciggies. Obviously vapes are "cool", but I imagine the fact the Chinese imported ones are dirt cheap is also a factor. Also, the amount of nicotine you get by repeated puffing on a vape ends up far more than trying to get through cigarettes, but like downgrading from drinking spirits to Carling larger.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,126
    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    When did we put New Labour back in No 10?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Money that had already been allocated for transport has been reallocated. Is that it?

    Good god.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664
    edited October 2023
    Cookie said:

    BBC have helpfully listed what Sunak has announced - these are:
    - Protect the £12bn to link up Manchester and Liverpool as planned - this won't be with high-speed rail
    - Build the Midlands Rail Hub, connecting 50 stations
    - Help Andy Street extend the West Midlands Metro
    - Build the Leeds tram, electrify the North Wales main line
    - Upgrade the A1, the A2, the A5, the M6…
    - Connect our Union with the A75 boosting links between Scotland and Northern Ireland
    - Fund the Shipley bypass, the Blyth relief road and deliver 70 other road schemes
    - Resurface roads across the country
    - Bring back the Don Valley line
    - Upgrade the energy coast line between Carlisle, Workington and Barrow

    This, I would suggest, amount to even less than I'd feared.

    I assume the Don Valley line will terminate at Stocksbridge and the Woodhead Tunnel won't be reopened.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Presume that the Liz Truss gang will be boiling with anger over this attack on personal liberty that is his age-related smoking ban.

    Which just shows the tories are all over the place. She PM a year ago.

    I think an age-related smoking ban is illiberal tosh.
    It’s not even populist, I doubt anyone cares.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?

    IHT reform?
    Confirming triple lock?
  • Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    OT, I could see Sunak losing ground and Starmer gaining ground during the course of an election campaign. The public see Starmer as a bit of a blank sheet of paper, he's really not that well known, so a campaign with him more in the forefront along with a fairly presentable shadow cabinet might boost favourability. He isn't inspirational but generally comes across as less wooden in practice than his reputation.

    The public at least until recently saw Sunak as a dull but safe pair of hands. A election campaign may well show up his petulance and irritation at being asked difficult questions. We've already seen a bit of this during conference.

    Some friends of mine know Starmer well and say that in private he is charming, relaxed and very humorous, very different from his public image. They find it a bit frustrating that he does not show that side of himself though I can see why he does not.

    Sunak - like a a lot of people in the City - is not used to being challenged and has not had a lot of experience of this in politics. It shows. It's a mark of inexperience. I know that we don't want geriatrics in power as in the US but too many of our politicians are put in senior positions too early: Sunak is one such and has not been able to learn from his mistakes, possibly because he has been dazzled by his early PR coups during Covid.
    I think he comes across well in more long-form interviews: e.g. this BBC one with Nick Robinson, https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001r6jn/political-thinking-with-nick-robinson-55-the-keir-starmer-2023-one I think he’ll be fine during a general election campaign. (Davey too.) More exposure will dispel the Conservative attempts to define him otherwise.

    Lynton Crosby will tell Rishi to hide in fridges rather than be interviewed.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Money that had already been allocated for transport has been reallocated. Is that it?

    Good god.

    From what I can see it's been clawed back. It looks to me like they're spending much less on transport than was previously committed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?

    It better be a big one.

    Invasion of Russia, reintroduction of capital punishment, or strafing the boats.
    MATHS TILL 18
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?

    IHT reform?
    Yes, that seems highly plausible.
    Unlikely wouldn’t that be saved for next year . Cancelling HS2 because of the costs then announcing a bung to millionaires might be a bit difficult !
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited October 2023
    Is it the case that Labour, with all that caution, hedging, don't know and mystery they show, have a far more developed programme for government than the Tories do.

    What are their actual ideas?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Cookie said:

    Money that had already been allocated for transport has been reallocated. Is that it?

    Good god.

    From what I can see it's been clawed back. It looks to me like they're spending much less on transport than was previously committed.
    Seems so.
    Although there’s been so much speculation and commentary already, I’m not sure anyone has the energy now to follow up the detail.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Where are they going to build thousands of new homes at Euston?!

    Overlooking your pied de terre.
    If he means putting all the tracks in a tunnel and building on that then I’m actually fine with it. The tracks are ugly. Build on top - it does make sense (and it’s the only way you could conjure 1000s of new hones at Euston)
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    This is a Iain Duncan Smith tribute act but without the passion of delivery.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Cookie said:

    BBC have helpfully listed what Sunak has announced - these are:
    - Protect the £12bn to link up Manchester and Liverpool as planned - this won't be with high-speed rail
    - Build the Midlands Rail Hub, connecting 50 stations
    - Help Andy Street extend the West Midlands Metro
    - Build the Leeds tram, electrify the North Wales main line
    - Upgrade the A1, the A2, the A5, the M6…
    - Connect our Union with the A75 boosting links between Scotland and Northern Ireland
    - Fund the Shipley bypass, the Blyth relief road and deliver 70 other road schemes
    - Resurface roads across the country
    - Bring back the Don Valley line
    - Upgrade the energy coast line between Carlisle, Workington and Barrow

    This, I would suggest, amount to even less than I'd feared.

    I assume the Don Valley line will terminate at Stocksbridge and the Woodhead Tunnel won't be reopened.

    Yeah my thoughts too. I'll be surprised if we get an extra trans-pennine line.
  • He [Sunak] says once flights start regularly to Rwanda, the boats will stop coming.

    Hitler in the bunker hoping that a broken army will rescue him.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Michelle Mone handed gazillion pound PPE contacts with no repercussions, but benefit scroungers, we will hunt you down.

    Rishi and IDS, two peas in a pod.
  • Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?

    It better be a big one.

    Invasion of Russia, reintroduction of capital punishment, or strafing the boats.
    MATHS TILL 18
    Not only that, but increase maths by a year every year, such that a 14 year old today will never stop maths.
    :lol:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Cookie said:

    BBC have helpfully listed what Sunak has announced - these are:
    - Protect the £12bn to link up Manchester and Liverpool as planned - this won't be with high-speed rail
    - Build the Midlands Rail Hub, connecting 50 stations
    - Help Andy Street extend the West Midlands Metro
    - Build the Leeds tram, electrify the North Wales main line
    - Upgrade the A1, the A2, the A5, the M6…
    - Connect our Union with the A75 boosting links between Scotland and Northern Ireland
    - Fund the Shipley bypass, the Blyth relief road and deliver 70 other road schemes
    - Resurface roads across the country
    - Bring back the Don Valley line
    - Upgrade the energy coast line between Carlisle, Workington and Barrow

    This, I would suggest, amount to even less than I'd feared.

    I assume the Don Valley line will terminate at Stocksbridge and the Woodhead Tunnel won't be reopened.
    Zero chance of Woodhead being reopened, for various reasons.

    If it's to be done, do it properly. A new line across the Pennines.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Another death by XL Bully

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/04/man-killed-by-dog-believed-to-be-xl-bully-near-sunderland

    How many more will we tolerate? Man had his throat ripped out

    Muzzle them NOW by LAW and cull them all by Christmas
  • Ben Stokes is a doubt for England's World Cup opener against New Zealand on Thursday because of a hip issue.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    This is a Iain Duncan Smith tribute act but without the passion of delivery.

    Sunak is a quiet man who is turning down the volume.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,410
    Mortimer said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    When did we put New Labour back in No 10?
    Unfortunately, there is a distinct trend in British Conservatism - quite possibly, class-based - where some Conservatives are basically a bit embarrassed to be so (which is why they detest the members, who really do believe it, so much) and address this guilt by trying to ape New Labour on social justice and social policy, giving them some cover in their social circles, and otherwise using their government roles largely for themselves and their own careers.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited October 2023
    Oh, here we go with the trans bashing. Inevitable.

    And the biggest cheer of the day.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Michelle Mone handed gazillion pound PPE contacts with no repercussions, but benefit scroungers, we will hunt you down.

    Rishi and IDS, two peas in a pod.

    Rishi is much smarter than IDS.
    But IDS showed moments of genuine empathy and conviction, which I think Sunak can’t do.

    They’re both crap.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Cookie said:

    Money that had already been allocated for transport has been reallocated. Is that it?

    Good god.

    From what I can see it's been clawed back. It looks to me like they're spending much less on transport than was previously committed.
    Oh dear me.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited October 2023
    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
    Some people enjoy it?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    FFS, fire up the Huey.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    A somewhat random question:

    How many MPs went through the care system as children?
  • RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
    Stopping criminal gangs making billions from illicit trade and getting links to a large proportion of the population?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
    Some people enjoy it?
    That's what some people say about Kombucha, but I also find it hard to believe ;-)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
    Some people enjoy it?
    People enjoy doing many different illegal things.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    "It is family that lightens the autumn of our days".

    This is presumably why Akshata Murty did the introduction to his speech shortly before Sunak leads his party to an epochal defeat.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    edited October 2023

    The PM’s speech sound pretty dull.
    No-one is believing his shell game on northern rail infrastructure, and the rest is a mish-mash.

    I guess there’s a rabbit-from-a-hat coming?

    It better be a big one.

    Invasion of Russia, reintroduction of capital punishment, or strafing the boats.
    MATHS TILL 18
    Not only that, but increase maths by a year every year, such that a 14 year old today will never stop maths.
    :lol:

    He [Sunak] says once flights start regularly to Rwanda, the boats will stop coming.

    Hitler in the bunker hoping that a broken army will rescue him.

    Actually, on this I feel the Government look perilously close to a solution. To the extent that the conspiracist in me has wondered if they're 'bigging up' the migrant crisis in order to solve it with a flourish before the election. I too am convinced that a few flights to Rwanda will be all it takes. And they won't need much capacity in Rwanda because no bugger will stay there - anyone unfortunate enough to end up there will abscond and go back home.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Mortimer said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    When did we put New Labour back in No 10?
    Unfortunately, there is a distinct trend in British Conservatism - quite possibly, class-based - where some Conservatives are basically a bit embarrassed to be so (which is why they detest the members, who really do believe it, so much) and address this guilt by trying to ape New Labour on social justice and social policy, giving them some cover in their social circles, and otherwise using their government roles largely for themselves and their own careers.
    I doubt Rishi has been embarrassed into this measure.
    I suspect he thinks it’s a jolly good idea.
  • Good Sturgeon joke.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Ghedebrav said:

    Cookie said:

    BBC have helpfully listed what Sunak has announced - these are:
    - Protect the £12bn to link up Manchester and Liverpool as planned - this won't be with high-speed rail
    - Build the Midlands Rail Hub, connecting 50 stations
    - Help Andy Street extend the West Midlands Metro
    - Build the Leeds tram, electrify the North Wales main line
    - Upgrade the A1, the A2, the A5, the M6…
    - Connect our Union with the A75 boosting links between Scotland and Northern Ireland
    - Fund the Shipley bypass, the Blyth relief road and deliver 70 other road schemes
    - Resurface roads across the country
    - Bring back the Don Valley line
    - Upgrade the energy coast line between Carlisle, Workington and Barrow

    This, I would suggest, amount to even less than I'd feared.

    I assume the Don Valley line will terminate at Stocksbridge and the Woodhead Tunnel won't be reopened.

    Yeah my thoughts too. I'll be surprised if we get an extra trans-pennine line.
    Well, Sunak has made clear he is anti-trans, so presumably not.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
    Some people enjoy it?
    People enjoy doing many different illegal things.
    Smoking is not illegal, though.
    At least, not right now.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    A somewhat random question:

    How many MPs went through the care system as children?

    From the top of my head, Esther McVey was fostered; different thing again, but Gove was adopted; not sure what age.

    From the other side of the fence Edward Timpson grew up in a family that (commendably) fostered many children, so understands the system better than most might,
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
    Some people enjoy it?
    People enjoy doing many different illegal things.
    Smoking is not illegal, though.
    At least, not right now.
    No, but I am not sure it's a convincing argument why it shouldn't be, given everything in the "con" column.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    How does this part of his speech align to what Braverman said?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Great to know that we live in a country where a multi-millionaire former public schoolboy can become PM, whatever the colour of their skin.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
    Some people enjoy it?
    People enjoy doing many different illegal things.
    Smoking is not illegal, though.
    At least, not right now.
    76,000 people died from smoking related diseases in 2021.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    "Of what we have done in Government since 2010, what I am proudest of is our record in education."

    Wait. At the start of his speech he was saying politics had been broken for 30 years. Now apparently the last 13 years are ok?

    None of this makes any sense.
  • I am surprised this hasn't made any headline,

    My understanding is that, after studying the Prime Minister’s dreadful polling numbers in recent months, Sunak’s close advisers called the exiled Cummings in from the cold. According to a source who works inside No. 10, the advice from Cummings was bracing: shifting the public’s perceptions of Sunak would be incredibly difficult. He made clear that only very big, very noisy moves would have any chance of persuading people that Sunak is an agent of change. No. 10 needed to pick some big public fights; the more blowback from former prime ministers and big business figures the better. Or, as one insider characterised Cummings’s advice: “Do mental stuff that proves you’re not the Establishment.”

    https://unherd.com/2023/10/the-brutal-death-of-manchester-toryism/
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Pro_Rata said:

    Is it the case that Labour, with all that caution, hedging, don't know and mystery they show, have a far more developed programme for government than the Tories do.

    What are their actual ideas?

    Why would they tell you?

    While the Govenment is self-imploding there's no need for Labour to say anything yet. Anouncing their policies too early will just be handing the Tories the dead cats they are so desperately hoping for.
  • RobD said:

    Farooq said:

    Raising smoking age year on year is a very good policy. Well done Rishi.

    Sounds like something for a royal commission rather than a PM's intuition. I'm probably in favour but would like it discussed more thoroughly.
    What is in the pro column for smoking, apart from I suppose the tax revenue?
    Some people enjoy it?
    It's a form of masochism?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Great to know that we live in a country where a multi-millionaire former public schoolboy can become PM, whatever the colour of their skin.

    You forgot to mention the inevitable PPE degree.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    No more classics and Latin degrees?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    I am surprised this hasn't made any headline,

    My understanding is that, after studying the Prime Minister’s dreadful polling numbers in recent months, Sunak’s close advisers called the exiled Cummings in from the cold. According to a source who works inside No. 10, the advice from Cummings was bracing: shifting the public’s perceptions of Sunak would be incredibly difficult. He made clear that only very big, very noisy moves would have any chance of persuading people that Sunak is an agent of change. No. 10 needed to pick some big public fights; the more blowback from former prime ministers and big business figures the better. Or, as one insider characterised Cummings’s advice: “Do mental stuff that proves you’re not the Establishment.”

    https://unherd.com/2023/10/the-brutal-death-of-manchester-toryism/

    Hope he charged a stack of cash for that advice.
This discussion has been closed.