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Rishi needs to define what Sunak-ism is to stand a chance – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:


    @jamesrbuk

    If it’s true that the government are indeed rushing to sell off the land compulsorily purchased, over years, at HUGE cost, for the sections of HS2 above Crewe, that’s a genuine act of national sabotage – just to make sure a future government can’t override Rishi’s decision.

    Sounds like a possible case for Labour's proposed compulsory purchase/reduction of planning gain windfall policy.

    (Though they were briefing last week that had been de-prioritised.)
    Exactly what I was thinking. All Labour have to do is to make an announcement now.
  • novanova Posts: 690
    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I'm not convinced by one year at a time - too complex and pfaffy; 21 now and 25 in 4 years' time would be a better start, perhaps alongside significant price hikes, and followed in due course by making the relevant substances probihibited drugs.

    (If there is no such thing as a minor crime as I just heard, why is he running away from parking enforcement to prevent wheelchair users and others being forced into dangerous traffic?)
    Wouldn't that mean that everyone who is 18-20 now is stuck in an ongoing loop of being able to smoke every few years, and then banned again?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Scott_xP said:


    @jamesrbuk

    If it’s true that the government are indeed rushing to sell off the land compulsorily purchased, over years, at HUGE cost, for the sections of HS2 above Crewe, that’s a genuine act of national sabotage – just to make sure a future government can’t override Rishi’s decision.

    They can just build copies of the Alexandra Road Estate over all the cancelled train lines. Road and parking underneath, cycle and walk on top - transport and housing for a brighter future.


  • Listening to the media it seems there is support with the public in the north

    I would suggest Sunak needs to gather the northern mayors at no 10 to agree the way forward and to have regular meetings

    Where is labour's response ?
  • Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Mortimer said:

    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I'm not convinced by one year at a time; 21 now and 25 in 4 years' time would be a better start, perhaps alongside significant price hikes, and followed in due course by making the relevant substances probihibited drugs.
    Why do people insist on sticking their noses in on other people's legal business? Small mindedness and puritanism on steroids.
    Why do people have a problem with programmes to improve health, and prevent those who say "Waah ! Leave me on my own !" imposing unnecessary costs on the Health System?
    According to the anti-smoking lobby ASH, smoking costs the NHS £2.5 billion a year
    According to HMRC smoking raises £8.8 billion a year in tax.

    Your costs argument is bullshit.
    Depends what they'd spend the money on otherwise, mind. Fresh fruit? Alcohol?
    Black market ciggies with the Government getting none of the tax money.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    Shame. I disagree with him on HS2 but it would have been good to see him make a stand on a point of principle he believes in. He could very easily have quit as a Tory and still continued to do his job as mayor - probably would have got him more support as well.
    Indeed.

    Interesting hatchet job by Jen Williams on the Graun feed - at 11.22

    "Jennifer Williams, the Financial Times’ northern correspondent, explains why people in her region are unlikely to be impressed. There is a long history of the north being promised transport upgrades that never materialise, she says." and she goes on ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/oct/04/hs2-rishi-sunak-manchester-tory-conference-conservative-rail-latest-updates?page=with:block-651d381f8f08297bb3421029#block-651d381f8f08297bb3421029
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    AlistairM said:

    To be fair, someone probably knocked it up in 5 minutes using MS Paint this morning.
    Is Sunak just doing a version of The Apprentice writ large? It could explain a lot.

    Next week he has to design a new soda-pop with a marketing angle.
  • novanova Posts: 690
    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I am now imagining a 65 year old hanging around outside a newsagent, trying to persuade a passing 70 year old to buy them cigarettes.
  • boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:


    @jamesrbuk

    If it’s true that the government are indeed rushing to sell off the land compulsorily purchased, over years, at HUGE cost, for the sections of HS2 above Crewe, that’s a genuine act of national sabotage – just to make sure a future government can’t override Rishi’s decision.

    They can just build copies of the Alexandra Road Estate over all the cancelled train lines. Road and parking underneath, cycle and walk on top - transport and housing for a brighter future.


    Or even the cancelled motorways, like the Southwyck Estate

    image
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    In other news, I am not going pony trekking with Mamamoo. It's a pity because I reckon Moonbyul would be a good laugh.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    Mortimer said:

    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I'm not convinced by one year at a time; 21 now and 25 in 4 years' time would be a better start, perhaps alongside significant price hikes, and followed in due course by making the relevant substances probihibited drugs.
    Why do people insist on sticking their noses in on other people's legal business? Small mindedness and puritanism on steroids.
    One word: pensionerism. As Britain ages, it will be dominated by proposals that protect people from themselves. See also infantilisation of adults, see also weak men create hard times, see also gambling repression. You will note that very few people are discussing whether this should be done, they are discussing how to do it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    nova said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I am now imagining a 65 year old hanging around outside a newsagent, trying to persuade a passing 70 year old to buy them cigarettes.
    Trying, but failing, to imagine a "newsagent" existing in 2060 ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Sub optimal day for Lozza Fox.

    He and Calvin Robinson sacked by Wokeist GB News.

    Liz Truss says (and I quote) that 'we need more GB News'. Such an astonishing statement that I thought I'd misheard.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Great to know that we live in a country where a multi-millionaire former public schoolboy can become PM, whatever the colour of their skin.

    You forgot to mention the inevitable PPE degree.
    Nowt wrong with a PPE degree...


    ...says the man with the PPE degree.
    It enabled you to have enough plastic surgery to stop looking like Yannis Varoufakis!
  • nova said:

    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I'm not convinced by one year at a time - too complex and pfaffy; 21 now and 25 in 4 years' time would be a better start, perhaps alongside significant price hikes, and followed in due course by making the relevant substances probihibited drugs.

    (If there is no such thing as a minor crime as I just heard, why is he running away from parking enforcement to prevent wheelchair users and others being forced into dangerous traffic?)
    Wouldn't that mean that everyone who is 18-20 now is stuck in an ongoing loop of being able to smoke every few years, and then banned again?
    Sounds like Sunakism perfected.....
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    What an absolute whopper
  • Andy Street on BBC very disappointed in decision but this is a good compromise position
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    I didn't think the announcement of the Shipley Bypass would be seen as the key policy pledge of the speech.

    Oh, and if this new station in Bradford is on the site previously proposed, and just replaces Interchange, it will mean a longer walk from Forster Square than at present. What is needed is a single, central station, not half a new station further away from the city centre.
  • Listening to the media it seems there is support with the public in the north

    I would suggest Sunak needs to gather the northern mayors at no 10 to agree the way forward and to have regular meetings

    Where is labour's response ?

    It really is a disgrace that after 13 years of lefty government the Labour party haven't got an immediate response to the brave policies of the leader of the opposition.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    I didn't think the announcement of the Shipley Bypass would be seen as the key policy pledge of the speech.

    Oh, and if this new station in Bradford is on the site previously proposed, and just replaces Interchange, it will mean a longer walk from Forster Square than at present. What is needed is a single, central station, not half a new station further away from the city centre.

    You know the Tories - the only kind of Union they like is the one with the UJ stuck on top. Trades Unions, Union Stations, forget it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    The second decision is not his finest call.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Politics Joe have done a fine video for Trainstopping, starring Sunak.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1709529507659473192?t=Z_drqe2WGKm3cauAlDelxA&s=19
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    I would suggest Sunak needs to...

    You don't have to answer the question below out loud, just do it in your head.

    "Do you believe him?"

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    The more you look at Sunaks speech, the worse it is. The A level reforms aren’t schedule to happen for 10 years, and the HS2 decision to sell the already purchased land (as well as scrapping it) looks like a form of national sabotage for Labour to clear up

    Ugh. Conservative politics is just so…shit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    kinabalu said:

    Sub optimal day for Lozza Fox.

    He and Calvin Robinson sacked by Wokeist GB News.

    Liz Truss says (and I quote) that 'we need more GB News'. Such an astonishing statement that I thought I'd misheard.
    You can watch my share. Thanks.
  • viewcode said:

    I would suggest Sunak needs to...

    You don't have to answer the question below out loud, just do it in your head.

    "Do you believe him?"

    That is why I said he has to have regular dialogue with the northern mayors and work together
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,126

    Listening to the media it seems there is support with the public in the north

    I would suggest Sunak needs to gather the northern mayors at no 10 to agree the way forward and to have regular meetings

    Where is labour's response ?

    First rule of politics; don't interrupt your opponent when they're making a huge mistake
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    There goes his credibility.
    Shame.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    viewcode said:

    I would suggest Sunak needs to...

    You don't have to answer the question below out loud, just do it in your head.

    "Do you believe him?"

    That is why I said he has to have regular dialogue with the northern mayors and work together
    Tories having regular dialogue with any devolved administration if it's not a Tory one? Pull the other plonker, chum (as a railway worker once said to me).
  • Andy Street on BBC very disappointed in decision but this is a good compromise position

    I suspect Street was in on it all along: huff and puff to begin with then have a damascene conversion once Rishi explains it. Completely transparent.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Foxy said:

    Politics Joe have done a fine video for Trainstopping, starring Sunak.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1709529507659473192?t=Z_drqe2WGKm3cauAlDelxA&s=19

    Okay that’s actually funny - but they shouldn’t have had a posh boy do the narration. Plenty of actors with Manchester or Glasgow accents that would have made it better.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243

    Sub optimal day for Lozza Fox.

    He and Calvin Robinson sacked by Wokeist GB News.

    And the police have searched his house and arrested him for conspiracy
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Andy Street on BBC very disappointed in decision but this is a good compromise position

    I suspect Street was in on it all along: huff and puff to begin with then have a damascene conversion once Rishi explains it. Completely transparent.
    He'd rather go to Euston than OOC, which is understandable. Shame about the North.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    In other news, I am not going pony trekking with Mamamoo. It's a pity because I reckon Moonbyul would be a good laugh.
    Well called.

    And yes, they are ace.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    Listening to the media it seems there is support with the public in the north

    I would suggest Sunak needs to gather the northern mayors at no 10 to agree the way forward and to have regular meetings

    Where is labour's response ?

    I don't think the Northern Mayors are in any mood to compromise. What the Northern Mayors wanted was HS2 and NPR. Now they are being offered neither. I don't see where the space for agreement is.


  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Street , another spineless Tory lickspittle .
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Nigelb said:

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    There goes his credibility.
    Shame.
    He might simply think it's worth waiting on Starmer becoming PM rather than resigning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Politics Joe have done a fine video for Trainstopping, starring Sunak.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1709529507659473192?t=Z_drqe2WGKm3cauAlDelxA&s=19

    Okay that’s actually funny - but they shouldn’t have had a posh boy do the narration. Plenty of actors with Manchester or Glasgow accents that would have made it better.
    It's supposed to be Rishi, so no.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    There goes his credibility.
    Shame.
    He might simply think it's worth waiting on Starmer becoming PM rather than resigning.
    As TSE points out, he could have stayed as Mayor, and left the party.

    Really not sure what's left there for him.
  • Actor Laurence Fox and presenter Calvin Robinson sacked from TV channel GB News

    GB News is the home of cancel culture.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    "But, in an interview being broadcast now, he says he is staying in part because Sunak has respected his concerns. He says he thinks people in the West Midlands will be better served by his continuing to stay in the party and working with Sunak on transport improvements."

    Next West Midlands mayoral election is 2 May 2024.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    With reference (only) to your final query, and without implying who has or has not been doing it: an obvious difference is that statues are not a functional instrument of government by which it applies legal sanctions where needed.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,630
    edited October 2023

    Listening to the media it seems there is support with the public in the north

    I would suggest Sunak needs to gather the northern mayors at no 10 to agree the way forward and to have regular meetings

    Where is labour's response ?

    I can tell you don't use the trains in the North, particularly Manchester.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    edited October 2023
    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    Terrorism Act 2000 ?

    The Terrorism Act 2000 defines terrorism, both in and outside of the UK, as the use or threat of one or more of the actions listed below

    . serious damage to property;

    The use or threat of action, as set out above, which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism regardless of whether or not the action is designed to influence the government or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public or a section of the public.

    Action includes action outside the United Kingdom.

    It is important to note that in order to be convicted of a terrorism offence a person doesn't actually have to commit what could be considered a terrorist attack. Planning, assisting and even collecting information on how to commit terrorist acts are all crimes under British terrorism legislation.

    Fox has NOT threatened to use firearms or explosives though
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    edited October 2023
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Mortimer said:

    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I'm not convinced by one year at a time; 21 now and 25 in 4 years' time would be a better start, perhaps alongside significant price hikes, and followed in due course by making the relevant substances probihibited drugs.
    Why do people insist on sticking their noses in on other people's legal business? Small mindedness and puritanism on steroids.
    Why do people have a problem with programmes to improve health, and prevent those who say "Waah ! Leave me on my own !" imposing unnecessary costs on the Health System?
    According to the anti-smoking lobby ASH, smoking costs the NHS £2.5 billion a year
    According to HMRC smoking raises £8.8 billion a year in tax.

    Your costs argument is bullshit.
    Depends what they'd spend the money on otherwise, mind. Fresh fruit? Alcohol?
    Also the two figures are not directly linked, as the smokers paying the tax today will be getting the joy of cancer in 20, 30 or 40 years (possibly). For instance a colleague's mother in law has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer almost certainly associated with he smoking of many years ago - she hasn't smoked for decades. So even if you banned smoking today, the harms will keep rolling on for decades.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    "...and thank you Huw. On "Network North" tonight, more transport chaos as yet another rail line is cancelled, the police announce the third knife amnesty this year, and local centenarian Mary Phillips says it's stout that keeps her young. And now to Alan Partridge with the sport..."
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    What 'free speech' was he undertaking? He was being deliberating provocative and insulting concerning a deceased 6 year old for fecks' sake.

    We all know that free speech has limits and rightly so. Behaviour such as this is utterly puerile and worthy of punishment (but not jail).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited October 2023
    Maajid Nawaz is another that has gone quite mad in recent years.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Laurence Fox has apparently been arrested for damaging ULEZ cameras.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    Shame. I disagree with him on HS2 but it would have been good to see him make a stand on a point of principle he believes in. He could very easily have quit as a Tory and still continued to do his job as mayor - probably would have got him more support as well.
    People who have their bluff called uniformly look ridiculous. This is as true for Andy Street as it is for every parent with a toddler at one time or another.

    If you make a bluff you run a serious risk of humiliation.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Mortimer said:

    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I'm not convinced by one year at a time; 21 now and 25 in 4 years' time would be a better start, perhaps alongside significant price hikes, and followed in due course by making the relevant substances probihibited drugs.
    Why do people insist on sticking their noses in on other people's legal business? Small mindedness and puritanism on steroids.
    Why do people have a problem with programmes to improve health, and prevent those who say "Waah ! Leave me on my own !" imposing unnecessary costs on the Health System?
    According to the anti-smoking lobby ASH, smoking costs the NHS £2.5 billion a year
    According to HMRC smoking raises £8.8 billion a year in tax.

    Your costs argument is bullshit.
    Depends what they'd spend the money on otherwise, mind. Fresh fruit? Alcohol?
    Also the two figures are not directly linked, as the smokers paying the tax today will be getting the joy of cancer in 20, 30 or 40 years (possibly). For instance a colleague's mother in law has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer almost certainly associated with he smoking of many years ago - she hasn't smoked for decades. So even if you banned smoking today, the harms will keep rolling on for decades.
    That's true, but it makes the comparison even stronger, because the lung cancer we see now is largely a consequence of smoking in the past, when smoking rates were higher, but the tax revenue is from now, when smoking rates are lower.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    What 'free speech' was he undertaking? He was being deliberating provocative and insulting concerning a deceased 6 year old for fecks' sake.

    We all know that free speech has limits and rightly so. Behaviour such as this is utterly puerile and worthy of punishment (but not jail).
    But jail is what seems likely. Should be a ban from football grounds with as little police and court time, if any, as needed.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    viewcode said:

    "...and thank you Huw. On "Network North" tonight, more transport chaos as yet another rail line is cancelled, the police announce the third knife amnesty this year, and local centenarian Mary Phillips says it's stout that keeps her young. And now to Alan Partridge with the sport..."
    There'll be no new projects that would not have happened anyway (e.g. under NPR), and the filling in of a pothole in Alston will be shown as "Being from HS2 funds".

    The only people 'winning' from this are the treasury.

    This government is backwards-looking and utterly London-centric.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Andy Street on BBC very disappointed in decision but this is a good compromise position

    But it's not a good compromise is it?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    What 'free speech' was he undertaking? He was being deliberating provocative and insulting concerning a deceased 6 year old for fecks' sake.

    We all know that free speech has limits and rightly so. Behaviour such as this is utterly puerile and worthy of punishment (but not jail).
    But jail is what seems likely. Should be a ban from football grounds with as little police and court time, if any, as needed.
    Is jail likely? I'd suspect suspended sentence at worst.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    kinabalu said:

    Sub optimal day for Lozza Fox.

    He and Calvin Robinson sacked by Wokeist GB News.

    Liz Truss says (and I quote) that 'we need more GB News'. Such an astonishing statement that I thought I'd misheard.
    Might as well be the new slogan of the Tory Party. Certainly it beats whatever inane drivel about a brighter future the moron room in CCHQ came up with. This conference has been a fiasco that has not been equalled in Conservative history.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    My opinion is that mind-altering drugs should be safe, legal and used sparingly.

    I'm as opposed to banning nicotine as I am to continuing the futile war on cannabis, heroin, etc.

    The current strategy on nicotine is largely working. Smoking rates are decreasing, it's regulated so users know they're using what they think they are using, and people who want help to quit can ask for help without involving the police.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    There is a difference between free speech and freedom to say what you want without impunity. Nobody prevented the football fan in the first place.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Consequences always follow freedom of speech
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited October 2023
    Did anyone mention Brexit at Brum? Like how they are going to actually implement customs controls?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Consequences always follow freedom of speech

    And in this case, I go back to the point, what "freedom of speech" was he trying to make or say? Is he laughing because a six year old kid died of cancer? Makes him stupid or a despicable human being, or both.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    The smoking policy is absolute nonsense. It's a decision which should be made by adults. Either you are an adult and thus old enough to decide at 18 or you are not.

    If the government wants to discourage smoking further it should simply increase the tax on cigarettes.

    Can't we just exile smokers to Rwanda?
    Normally, we just make them go stand outside under a small awning...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792
    edited October 2023

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    There is a difference between free speech and freedom to say what you want without impunity. Nobody prevented the football fan in the first place.
    I'm not sure I agree. This fella is clearly a horrible individual - one of the regrettable majority of football fans who give the rest a bad name - but I can't see how what he did constitutes a crime. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to say things which are horrible or tasteless or with which we disagree or which might rile those in authority. Otherwise it isn't really freedom at all.

    Clearly he merits a good kicking however.
  • novanova Posts: 690

    Andy Street on BBC very disappointed in decision but this is a good compromise position

    Considering HS2 still goes to London from Birmingham, and that the money saved from the more northerly sections will now partly be used in the Midlands, it's not a surprise he thinks it's a good compromise.

    I notice it was also going to be used in other parts of the country. The cynic in me imagines every two bit transport project anywhere in England over the next decade will be allocated to "HS2 savings".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?

    I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.

    The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288

    Consequences always follow freedom of speech

    Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?

    Nice juxtaposition.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    Andy Street confirms he will stay as mayor and a member of the conservative party

    Shame. I disagree with him on HS2 but it would have been good to see him make a stand on a point of principle he believes in. He could very easily have quit as a Tory and still continued to do his job as mayor - probably would have got him more support as well.
    People who have their bluff called uniformly look ridiculous. This is as true for Andy Street as it is for every parent with a toddler at one time or another.

    If you make a bluff you run a serious risk of humiliation.
    It's possible this will go the Claire Short route. Reassured, stays on board, then realises that after he'd served his purpose for a brief political moment he's being ignored, so flounces a bit later.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148

    Listening to the media it seems there is support with the public in the north

    I would suggest Sunak needs to gather the northern mayors at no 10 to agree the way forward and to have regular meetings

    Where is labour's response ?

    I can tell you don't use the trains in the North, particularly Manchester.
    Won't Labour's current response be "don't interrupt an opponent when he is busy punching himself on he nose"?

    But we may hear something next week?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    nova said:

    Andy Street on BBC very disappointed in decision but this is a good compromise position

    Considering HS2 still goes to London from Birmingham, and that the money saved from the more northerly sections will now partly be used in the Midlands, it's not a surprise he thinks it's a good compromise.

    I notice it was also going to be used in other parts of the country. The cynic in me imagines every two bit transport project anywhere in England over the next decade will be allocated to "HS2 savings".
    Over the next 12 months. After that there will be a different government.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,818
    edited October 2023

    Consequences always follow freedom of speech

    And in this case, I go back to the point, what "freedom of speech" was he trying to make or say? Is he laughing because a six year old kid died of cancer? Makes him stupid or a despicable human being, or both.
    Surely we can agree being stupid is not a crime?

    Even being a despicable human being, or more accurately a human being acting despicably, should be insufficient on its own to be a crime.

    The point of protecting free speech is not to protect those making lovely, logical and correct statements, but to allow the people we disagree with, who are indeed often a bit stupid and occassionally despicable to speak freely.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Cookie said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    There is a difference between free speech and freedom to say what you want without impunity. Nobody prevented the football fan in the first place.
    I'm not sure I agree. This fella is clearly a horrible individual - one of the regrettable majority of football fans who give the rest a bad name - but I can't see how what he did constitutes a crime. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to say things which are horrible or tasteless or with which we disagree or which might rile those in authority. Otherwise it isn't really freedom at all.

    Clearly he merits a good kicking however.
    Does anyone think that any country, anywhere in the world has absolute freedom of speech? Of course they don't. In this case if the idiot wants to be free to be grossly insulting to a dead child, then I think others ought to have the freedom to kick the shit out of him without punishment...

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188
    Services to Sheffield Victoria apparently.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    The smoking policy is absolute nonsense. It's a decision which should be made by adults. Either you are an adult and thus old enough to decide at 18 or you are not.

    If the government wants to discourage smoking further it should simply increase the tax on cigarettes.

    Can't we just exile smokers to Rwanda?
    Normally, we just make them go stand outside under a small awning...
    Ah - the smoking huts that pubs rolled out after the smoking ban came in. How the smokers hated that.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    The smoking policy is absolute nonsense. It's a decision which should be made by adults. Either you are an adult and thus old enough to decide at 18 or you are not.

    If the government wants to discourage smoking further it should simply increase the tax on cigarettes.

    Can't we just exile smokers to Rwanda?
    Normally, we just make them go stand outside under a small awning...
    Rwanda has a small awning just outside of it?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?

    I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.

    The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
    In some respects the Conservatives scorching the earth in anticipation of a Labour Government and unexpectedly winning a Tory majority of 5 would be the optimal result.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    Carnyx said:

    nova said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    One more thought before I go to conduct my afternoon.

    The smoking age going up by a year every year.

    Proof of age is currently only a fairly low level identity thing limited to the young. As time goes on, 30, 40, 50 year olds will be having to prove their age to smoke.

    Maybe it will still be low level, but it could also be seen as a serious use case for identity cards.

    I am now imagining a 65 year old hanging around outside a newsagent, trying to persuade a passing 70 year old to buy them cigarettes.
    Trying, but failing, to imagine a "newsagent" existing in 2060 ...
    Tobacconist?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Andy_JS said:

    Laurence Fox has apparently been arrested for damaging ULEZ cameras.

    He's probably Cool Hand Luke in his own head. But be careful what you wish for Lozza. We know how that ended.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Andy_JS said:

    Laurence Fox has apparently been arrested for damaging ULEZ cameras.

    Nope, he’s been arrested for Twitter posts and a podcast interview. No suggestion he’s damaged anything.

    A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: “Officers arrested a 45-year-old man on suspicion of conspiring to commit criminal damage to Ulez cameras and encouraging or assisting offences to be committed.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Consequences always follow freedom of speech

    And in this case, I go back to the point, what "freedom of speech" was he trying to make or say? Is he laughing because a six year old kid died of cancer? Makes him stupid or a despicable human being, or both.
    Surely we can agree being stupid is not a crime?

    Even being a despicable human being, or more accurately a human being acting despicably, should be insufficient on its own to be a crime.

    The point of protecting free speech is not to protect those making lovely, logical and correct statements, but to allow the people we disagree with, who are indeed often a bit stupid and occassionally despicable to speak freely.
    Maybe - I think a society has the right to enforce social mores, or that society risks falling apart. Being able to give offence in this way without come back does not seem right to me. A bit like people burning poppies - some assert that that is a freedom of speech issue too, but others are gravely offended. Or worse - burning a Bible or a Koran.

    Comedy relies on punching up. Thats why its seen as ok to insult the rich, or the government as they have money and power. You don't punch down. So mocking a poor dead child and his family is really beyond the pale. As I say - what freedom of speech point is made here?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Leon said:

    Another death by XL Bully

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/04/man-killed-by-dog-believed-to-be-xl-bully-near-sunderland

    How many more will we tolerate? Man had his throat ripped out

    Muzzle them NOW by LAW and cull them all by Christmas

    This should be the government's priority, not smoking.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    edited October 2023

    Consequences always follow freedom of speech

    And in this case, I go back to the point, what "freedom of speech" was he trying to make or say? Is he laughing because a six year old kid died of cancer? Makes him stupid or a despicable human being, or both.
    Surely we can agree being stupid is not a crime?

    Even being a despicable human being, or more accurately a human being acting despicably, should be insufficient on its own to be a crime.

    The point of protecting free speech is not to protect those making lovely, logical and correct statements, but to allow the people we disagree with, who are indeed often a bit stupid and occassionally despicable to speak freely.
    But surely you're not saying we shouldn't be allowed to stop people doing things just because we don't like them?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    I wonder how Rishi views the new post-grad course at Exeter on Magic, as outlined in the Guardian this morning.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Cookie said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    There is a difference between free speech and freedom to say what you want without impunity. Nobody prevented the football fan in the first place.
    I'm not sure I agree. This fella is clearly a horrible individual - one of the regrettable majority of football fans who give the rest a bad name - but I can't see how what he did constitutes a crime. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to say things which are horrible or tasteless or with which we disagree or which might rile those in authority. Otherwise it isn't really freedom at all.

    Clearly he merits a good kicking however.
    Does anyone think that any country, anywhere in the world has absolute freedom of speech? Of course they don't. In this case if the idiot wants to be free to be grossly insulting to a dead child, then I think others ought to have the freedom to kick the shit out of him without punishment...

    So we should be allowed to kill people who say things we find disagreeable?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?

    No.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    The guy is an idiot, but that is merely crass, and shouldn't be a crime.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    What 'free speech' was he undertaking? He was being deliberating provocative and insulting concerning a deceased 6 year old for fecks' sake.

    We all know that free speech has limits and rightly so. Behaviour such as this is utterly puerile and worthy of punishment (but not jail).
    But jail is what seems likely. Should be a ban from football grounds with as little police and court time, if any, as needed.
    Is jail likely? I'd suspect suspended sentence at worst.
    He won't be going to jail.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited October 2023

    Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?

    I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.

    The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
    I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.

    Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Another death by XL Bully

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/04/man-killed-by-dog-believed-to-be-xl-bully-near-sunderland

    How many more will we tolerate? Man had his throat ripped out

    Muzzle them NOW by LAW and cull them all by Christmas

    This should be the government's priority, not smoking.
    That would be too logical ! Any ban will take ages to implement because of the do gooders who will bleat about their dogs caught up in any ban . Personally if it looks like one of those killing machines it should be banned .
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Where freedom of speech meets incitement?

    On Tuesday, in an interview broadcast on video platform Rumble, Fox, 45, declared full support for the “Blade Runners” group of Ulez vigilantes.

    “I encourage them to tear down every single camera there is and I will be joining them,” the suspended GB News host said.

    He added: “I am pretty close with several and I will be out there with my angle grinder.”

    He also told presenter Maajid Nawaz he would be “happy to be arrested” if he was caught removing the cameras.

    A video shared on Wednesday morning by the Reclaim Party, of which Fox is leader, showed five police officers at the disgraced presenter’s address.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/04/laurence-fox-police-search-ulez-gb-news-cameras/

    Does that comment really cross the line into illegality?

    There’s no suggestion that Fox ever touched an ULEZ camera, and he’s not been arrested for actual criminal damage.

    One gets the impression that Fox is well-funded and could take this to the Supreme Court.

    How would criminal damage of ULEZ cameras be compared to criminal damage to statues a few years ago?

    There is no free speech. This Blades fan is going to jail for taking the piss out of some dead mackem kid at a football match.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fan-who-mocked-late-six-year-old-sunderland-mascot-faces-jail-after-utterly-deplorable-act/ar-AA1hzslw
    What 'free speech' was he undertaking? He was being deliberating provocative and insulting concerning a deceased 6 year old for fecks' sake.

    We all know that free speech has limits and rightly so. Behaviour such as this is utterly puerile and worthy of punishment (but not jail).
    #PBfreespeech
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    nova said:

    Andy Street on BBC very disappointed in decision but this is a good compromise position

    Considering HS2 still goes to London from Birmingham, and that the money saved from the more northerly sections will now partly be used in the Midlands, it's not a surprise he thinks it's a good compromise.

    I notice it was also going to be used in other parts of the country. The cynic in me imagines every two bit transport project anywhere in England over the next decade will be allocated to "HS2 savings".
    "...and that the money saved from the more northerly sections will now partly be used in the Midlands"

    It will not. The money will never get out of the treasury.
    Perhaps.
    But the Midlands don't get quite the same shafting.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    I'm having another look at the details of the transport announcement - and it appears to be the Trans-Pennine non-upgrade again. Remember how they curtailed the NPR scheme and made bonkers claims for journey time upgrades which were widely ridiculed as impossible?

    They've announced £500m for the "Manchester North West Quadrant". That isn't a ready to go scheme - its a study due to start in 2025.
    £300m for 9 smaller routes including the Wigan East West Route (£220m alone) - no way that £300m covers that
    £1bn for the Tees Valley. On what? Is it going where the rest of the money has gone?
    £2.5bn West Yorkshire Mass Transit system - in other words the existing rail lines when you look at what it is and where it goes. Later on it describes giving West Yorkshire only £1.3m of which £500m is a "downpayment" to the metro scheme - so short by £2bn and thus not happening
    Hull added to NPR, slashing Leeds - Hull journey times to 48 minutes. For 49 miles. So 60mph average. Wooooooo
    I was wrong about The Stocksbridge line going Tram-Train - its heavy rail to Chesterfield one way and Stocksbridge the other. Sheffield council is very against doing anything as disconnected as reopening Sheffield Victoria station (mentioned repeatedly in the government release) but we know councils are communist and need to be ignored, so...

    I could go on. Its painfully bad. Like the Treasury asked for a shopping list of things they could announce which has been pasted together by people who don;t know the schemes or the places or can be arsed to read what has gone out. It is openly contradictory to itself and repeats the same points.

    It's enough for Big_G.
    Core vote, I guess.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    I suspect that HS2 to Manchester is now dead. I doubt the Labour Party are going to resurrect this now. The Tories have made the decision to kill it. It gives Labour cover to say the money has been earmarked to spend elsewhere etc and they can’t promise to reinstate it without a look at the figures (at which point they will conclude that they are better not reopening that particular can of worms).

    It is a shambolic end to a shambolic project, but an end it is.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Prediction: SKS will make a speech with a discernable narrative arc and with a couple of policies that feed into that arc.

    After today, that will feel like a wonder, and a general impression will filter through to the casual voter.

    Labour polling average lead back up around or slightly over 20 for October.
This discussion has been closed.