All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
Christian Wolmar @christianwolmar · 1h Extraordinary but I'm told @networkrail was not consulted on today's rail announcement on Network North nor was it asked for advice or information. The company is awaiting further information.
It that's correct then I think my "thrown together over a few days or weeks" estimate may have been overly generous.
The guy is an idiot, but that is merely crass, and shouldn't be a crime.
Is burning the Koran merely crass? Or poppies at a Remembrance ceremony?
Yes, I don't think either should be illegal.
Burning the QuranBible/Flag/Poppies should not per-se be illegall. But if this is done with the specific intention of provoking a reaction from a specific group (which with Quran/Bible burning it usually it) then this should be a crime, or at least an offence. There havve been rediculous cases in Sweden and Denmark recently where because of strong free speech laws, individuals have made public offensive acts of Quran burning in the knowledge that they can't be arrested for it.
This is the law we have, I think. Say what you like but if you're doing it to incite violence (directly or indirectly via hatred) you risk a charge. Seems about right to me, not that I'd agree with every individual case of charge or no charge.
Out of interest, as "Long-Term Decisions for a Brighter Future" is a party slogan, will the PM now refer himself to the regulators of the ministerial code for using it on a government lectern in a government press conference? He explicitly isn't allowed to do that.
I don't know if HS2 was the right or wrong thing. I think its been mishandled spectacularly, and now a much reduced stump will be built. What concerns me is the inevitable inflation in the projected costs.
I know that some on PB understand this far better than me. Why do projects always balloon in costs so much? Is it false accounting at the start, changes to plans? Or something else?
They don't always. It's just that when it does, it's newsworthy and so you hear about it.
I can believe that's true, but I'm not wholly convinced.
Has Rishi done enough to remain PM until the next GE?
I think he has because there is no alternative that is any better. If you wanted the shot at Tory leadership would you want the year of the sinking ship, or 5 years of building a new ship? I'd want the latter - at least there is a chance of something there.
The situation of the nation is still going to be shit when Starmer takes over. The honeymoon won't last long and for all that they can (and will) blame the Tories, people very soon get fed up when the change doesn't deliver what they hoped. See also Brexit.
I could imagine a blind panic decapitation nearer the GE, as a desperate last minute scramble to save Tory seats in the 100-200 range. This need not be at the behest of any particular candidate or involve any particular tribe, just terrible polling and a do something / this is something thought process. You can't lose credibility when you have none.
Who would be in a contest and who would sit out for a further post-election contest.
If someone won now, then lost the election, there wouldn't be a post-election contest. It would be recognised that the election wasn't winnable and they would be given a chance.
I thought that might apply to Sunak if, indeed, he steadied the ship.
But a few months might be plenty to show if the kind of people wanting to become Tory leader are lacking. Perhaps a GE campaign would be enough.
So, if someone won a leadership election starting right now, I see a lot of scope for their replacement post-GE.
The wrong person in place for just a few months and running a poor GE campaign or being exposed during one could be enough for them to go post-GE.
So, I think perform with what passes for honour at a GE and you might stay on, but no guarantee.
I also thin pre GE replacement and post GE replacement favour different candidates.
Pre GE would be a panic to salvage something from the GE. Presentability to the electorate would be important and might favour Penny (whether her Boris like relationship with facts would see her ratings survive a GE campaign intact, I'm sceptical)
Post GE would be a more ideologically driven leadership election and would favour Badenoch, Braverman or someone of that type.
Christian Wolmar @christianwolmar · 1h Extraordinary but I'm told @networkrail was not consulted on today's rail announcement on Network North nor was it asked for advice or information. The company is awaiting further information.
*giggles* but of course. Why would you need to discuss these plans with the organisation responsible for delivering them? You only do that if there was any intention of actually fulfilling them.
The idea that Ds should have bailed out McCarthy is a codicil of the larger logic of DC punditry in which R bad behavior/destruction is assumed, a baseline like weather, and Ds managing the consequences of that behavior is a given. It’s part of DC being hardwired for the GOP. https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1709568786389443026
Following on from that, a pretty clear exposition by a Dem representative of why they voted against McCarthy remaining in post.
Pretty evident people don't understand a key piece of House Dems' thinking on McCarthy and governance of the House. The idea that we acted out of schadenfreude or pique with no thought to the legislative outlook is, of course, silly nonsense. Here's what the takes are missing-.. https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709559909488976279
What's the gist of the thread? Can only see the linked tweet because I have no Twit account.
I indicated yesterday I thought they were right because McCarthy tried to help Trump steal the election so he's entirely unsuitable for the job.
‘There is, to put it baldly, no right not to be offended. To be sure, that doesn’t mean that deliberately offending people for its own sake is morally acceptable, or that people should be entitled to use speech to incite violence, harass, or threaten. Rather, it means that the impulse to punish people who offend is a regressive urge’
“When we do become offended, as we all will, we must settle for responding with criticism or contempt, and stop short of demanding that the offender be punished or required to make restitution,” Rauch wrote. “If you are unwilling to shoulder that obligation, if you insist on punishing people who say or believe ‘hurtful’ things (as opposed to telling them why they are wrong, or just ignoring them) then you cannot fairly expect to share in the peace, freedom, and problem-solving success that liberal science is uniquely able to provide; indeed, you are putting those very benefits at risk.”
I badly need to point out that the entirety of English libel/slander/defamation law disagrees with that.
No, it doesn't.
For a start, it is mere civil law, so 'punishment' is a questionable description. In addition, offence is absolutely no ground for any such action unless it is couple with untruth. Mere insults, or even the most offensive opinion imaginable, are not libel if not also founded on a lie about an individual.
Oh, and: electrifying the North Wales Coast main line. This is a good thing. Wouldn't be the top of anyone's list of electrifications, but hey.
Just one thing. There is a very expensive fleet of 13 trains with diesel engines currently being built expressly for this line. Would it not... you know... have been more sensible to decide on the motive power before ordering the trains?
Sunak and the Tories are not going to have the job of implementing these projects. The purpose is entirely to create a trap for Labour on taxation and spending.
It's very much a scorched earth policy.
If they were doing that, why bother cancelling HS2? Let it go ahead and Labour have to cancel it.
Because Rishi is a pathetic and petulant little man who hates trains. And nobody is going to be allowed to reverse his decision.
See also, unprotecting and selling off the land on the HS2 Manc corridor;
Out of interest, as "Long-Term Decisions for a Brighter Future" is a party slogan, will the PM now refer himself to the regulators of the ministerial code for using it on a government lectern in a government press conference? He explicitly isn't allowed to do that.
What you have to understand is that I, Rishi Sunak, am Prime Minister and so can do whatever I like.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
Some people may recall that when the TSR2 aircraft was cancelled, they destroyed the manufacturing jigs and took the blueprints out into the carpark where they were unceremoniously burnt.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
This is almost unbelievable. Worth remembering that Sunak was elected on a manifesto to build HS2 to Manchester and Leeds. Nobody has voted for this vandalism. If there are any decent Tories left they need to stand up against this. General election now.
We need more long-termism in government and in public policy. Not thinking about the next electoral cycle, but about what the country needs in two or three decades - for that is how long some of these projects take to plan, build and get benefit from.
Instead, we get decisions made on electoral cycles.
Which is sad, because it is likely that we can get cross-party agreement on long-term projects, as HS2 did.
We will never compete internationally to our full potential if we continue to have such a short-term view.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.
(I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
Faisal Islam @faisalislam Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
Some people may recall that when the TSR2 aircraft was cancelled, they destroyed the manufacturing jigs and took the blueprints out into the carpark where they were unceremoniously burnt.
Sunak is a bad man. A silly man. And a bad man.
Nonsense. Sunak is every bit as honest as Johnson and every bit as competent as Truss. I won't hear a word against him.
The idea that Ds should have bailed out McCarthy is a codicil of the larger logic of DC punditry in which R bad behavior/destruction is assumed, a baseline like weather, and Ds managing the consequences of that behavior is a given. It’s part of DC being hardwired for the GOP. https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1709568786389443026
Following on from that, a pretty clear exposition by a Dem representative of why they voted against McCarthy remaining in post.
Pretty evident people don't understand a key piece of House Dems' thinking on McCarthy and governance of the House. The idea that we acted out of schadenfreude or pique with no thought to the legislative outlook is, of course, silly nonsense. Here's what the takes are missing-.. https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709559909488976279
What's the gist of the thread? Can only see the linked tweet because I have no Twit account.
I indicated yesterday I thought they were right because McCarthy tried to help Trump steal the election so he's entirely unsuitable for the job.
Dems: "We would like to read the $200 billion, 71-page bill we've never seen. You promised 72 hours but we'll settle for 90 minutes."
McCarthy: GFY..
...Dems: well we are going to take that time, but we are satisfied, we'll pass your bill to help you get out of the jam you created for yourself
McCarthy: the Democrats wanted to shut down the government and f*ck the troops..
...People want us to give the guy credit for stopping a shutdown but it is still not clear to me right now sitting here writing this that he *intended* to do that.
This really matters and not just on an emotional level- the resolution set up not one but two new legislative problems..
...Now we have to pass an omnibus or face a shutdown again by Thanksgiving AND we have to fund military assistance to Ukraine pretty soon. But we are told McCarthy is going to help us there, he has made an agreement to help Ukraine.
And what does McCarthy say about that? This: "There is no side deal on funding Ukraine."..
https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709574816326439283 ...People say "he couldn't make a deal it would compromise his power" and they're just wrong, that was a solvable problem. He could've publicly or privately given us a sense the CR was good faith and we were going to get through the omnibus, stave off a shutdown, and help Ukraine...
...This came down to trust, and that's the word I saw and heard from House Democrats more than any other word. We did not trust Kevin McCarthy and he gave us no reason to. He could have done so (and I suspect saved his gavel) through fairly simple actions. He chose not to do that...
All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
Should something of this magnitude (HS2) have been announced in parliament?
Suspect Speaker is going to erupt shortly.
He must be seriously angry, I have lost count over the last two weeks where Hoyle has been on the airwaves and making statements telling people to stop demanding an urgent answer from Sunak re HS2 because it must be announced in Parliament. He did didn’t he? Didn’t he?
All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
Exactly and have you not noticed that a lot of the stuff that Labour did build decades ago, now looks very dated compared to the new Tory stuff?
All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
You are like a broken record, starting with a hypothesis then desperately trying to find any evidence to fit it. The centralist BJO.
All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
Exactly and have you not noticed that a lot of the stuff that Labour did build decades ago, now looks very dated compared to the new Tory stuff?
Yeah by not building new schools Rishi is not stacking up WRAAC problems for future governments.
Should something of this magnitude (HS2) have been announced in parliament?
Suspect Speaker is going to erupt shortly.
He must be seriously angry, I have lost count over the last two weeks where Hoyle has been on the airwaves and making statements telling people to stop demanding an urgent answer from Sunak re HS2 because it must be announced in Parliament. He did didn’t he? Didn’t he?
Hoyle is an feeble irrelevance.
But yes, it's entirely true that this ought both to have been consulted on - something explicitly avoided - and needs to be brought before Parliament.
All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
Exactly and have you not noticed that a lot of the stuff that Labour did build decades ago, now looks very dated compared to the new Tory stuff?
No kidding, you should see the state of all the coal mines Labour built in the 80’s. All dirty, buildings collapsed already to the point the mines aren’t even working anymore.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.
(I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
I really doubt that Starmer's Labour would do that; Starmer gets a nosebleed if he goes out of North London. (I'm expecting to see toilet paper stuck up his nostrils next week in Liverpool).
I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.
Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
Exactly and have you not noticed that a lot of the stuff that Labour did build decades ago, now looks very dated compared to the new Tory stuff?
No kidding, you should see the state of all the coal mines Labour built in the 80’s. All dirty, buildings collapsed already to the point the mines aren’t even working anymore.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.
(I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
I really doubt that Starmer's Labour would do that; Starmer gets a nosebleed if he goes out of North London. (I'm expecting to see toilet paper stuck up his nostrils next week in Liverpool).
I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
Sadly, I think you are right (on the substantive point, not sure about the nosebleed!).
But, couldn’t Labour work something in to leave the door open? The scorched Earth plan from Sunak scares. If Labour box clever, could they say/do something that prevents Sunny et al blocking their successor?
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 30m Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
I'd argue quite well. Settled a generations long dispute and lanced the boil of Euroscepticism for a while. People see more clearly what the EU offers.
Yorkshire lad Rishi Sunak blames London as he scraps the northern leg of HS2. Plus, the Tories look to US Republicans this conference season, says @Hariboconomics
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 30m Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 30m Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
Yes. Rightly or wrongly, vast numbers of people wanted a referendum on the EU. EU membership was a rancid sore running through British politics.
If we had not had an EU referendum, then we'd either had had one later, or a UKIP government...
Much of the blame lies wit earlier governments (especially Blair's), who repeatedly ignored concerns (false and real) about EU membership.
A depressing day…HS2 was a rare example of an infrastructure project that had finally staggered past political and planning obstacles..Sunak is right about the mismanagement ( his govn was ultimately in charge but no doubt lack of effective scrutiny led to casual spending of money)..the answer was to sort out accountability and future spending on HS2..and to appoint top managers from countries that manage these tasks successfully…There’s no guarantee all the new proposed transport projects will happen…based on precedent few will be completed... UK doomed to have poor transport for decades to come.
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 30m Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
In terms of his legacy as a statesman, his biggest mistake was to hold a referendum while simultaneously doing everything he could to toxify one of the options. He should have remained as neutral as possible and then maybe the aftermath wouldn't have been so divisive.
Yorkshire lad Rishi Sunak blames London as he scraps the northern leg of HS2. Plus, the Tories look to US Republicans this conference season, says @Hariboconomics
Definite shades of the American Right with the Tories these days. Most unwelcome and it's important it doesn't get rewarded at the ballot box. Not just a loss but a big loss is what's required. Let's hope the public are up to the job. It's no certainty but I think they are.
BBC PM earnestly discussing Sunak's "time for a change" narrative with two Tory supporting commentators. They don't seem to think it's utter bullshine.
If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.
Or the chancellor who thought refurbishing 50 schools a year out of 25,000 was sufficient investment in the long term. The Treasury are much maligned on here, but they are led by politicians.
This is a black day for the governance of this country.
Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.
The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 30m Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
In terms of his legacy as a statesman, his biggest mistake was to hold a referendum while simultaneously doing everything he could to toxify one of the options. He should have remained as neutral as possible and then maybe the aftermath wouldn't have been so divisive.
I'd say the opposite. He pulled his punches with more than half an eye on Tory party management. He should have fought harder and nastier for the option (Remain) he believed was in the national interest.
If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.
Or the chancellor who thought refurbishing 50 schools a year out of 25,000 was sufficient investment in the long term. The Treasury are much maligned on here, but they are led by politicians.
And, at least in theory, Rishi is one of our more numerate top politicians.
I think the moral is that you can use maths to make numbers do anything if you torture them enough.
If you want numbers and reality, physics is the way to go.
This is a black day for the governance of this country.
Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.
The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
I did argue against the Leeds line closure.
The only thing I half understood was the HS2-HS1 link, which was always a poor compromise. Should probably still have gone ahead, though.
BTW, I still half expect OOC-Euston to be cancelled.
If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.
Or the chancellor who thought refurbishing 50 schools a year out of 25,000 was sufficient investment in the long term. The Treasury are much maligned on here, but they are led by politicians.
And, at least in theory, Rishi is one of our more numerate top politicians.
I think the moral is that you can use maths to make numbers do anything if you torture them enough.
If you want numbers and reality, physics is the way to go.
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 30m Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
Yes. Rightly or wrongly, vast numbers of people wanted a referendum on the EU. EU membership was a rancid sore running through British politics.
If we had not had an EU referendum, then we'd either had had one later, or a UKIP government...
Much of the blame lies wit earlier governments (especially Blair's), who repeatedly ignored concerns (false and real) about EU membership.
I was pro referendum but my point was more that it was a legacy that clearly didn’t have unanimity, like HS2, was badly planned, not explained clearly and will take possibly decades to get “right” or benefit from.
I also still think he was wet for quitting after the vote and should have stayed and solved it, especially with his amazing negotiating skills with the EU, as by walking away he gave us the shitshow of My, Boris etc etc who filled the vacuum he created. He broke it and should have owned it.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.
(I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
I really doubt that Starmer's Labour would do that; Starmer gets a nosebleed if he goes out of North London. (I'm expecting to see toilet paper stuck up his nostrils next week in Liverpool).
I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
Sadly, I think you are right (on the substantive point, not sure about the nosebleed!).
But, couldn’t Labour work something in to leave the door open? The scorched Earth plan from Sunak scares. If Labour box clever, could they say/do something that prevents Sunny et al blocking their successor?
They won’t because, call me a cynic, Starmer isn’t going to reverse the decision. In fact, it gets him off the hook. HS2 is seen as a giant money pit. We can apportion blame for that squarely at the Tories’ doorstep. But Starmer isn’t going to sweep into power and re-sign up to something that is considered to be a money pit.
Far better, politically, to take on this northern infrastructure stuff and pledge to turbo charge it. NPR, station upgrades, trams, connectivity etc etc. Use the failed HS2 project as an albatross to hang round the Tories neck in the years to come.
This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.
No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…
The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
All that will be forgotten by the time the election comes, it’s another dividing line potentially with Labour that will be fought over for the next year but the details we and the media have focussed on the last two weeks won’t be in most voters’ minds, just the policy good or bad. Better to get this done now than have it hanging over nearer a campaign.
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 30m Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
In terms of his legacy as a statesman, his biggest mistake was to hold a referendum while simultaneously doing everything he could to toxify one of the options. He should have remained as neutral as possible and then maybe the aftermath wouldn't have been so divisive.
I'd say the opposite. He pulled his punches with more than half an eye on Tory party management. He should have fought harder and nastier for the option (Remain) he believed was in the national interest.
He believed that renegotiating our relationship with the EU was in the national interest but contrived to put himself on the wrong side of his own convictions with the way he framed the debate between Dave's Deal and the abyss.
Faisal Islam @faisalislam Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.
(I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
I really doubt that Starmer's Labour would do that; Starmer gets a nosebleed if he goes out of North London. (I'm expecting to see toilet paper stuck up his nostrils next week in Liverpool).
I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
Sadly, I think you are right (on the substantive point, not sure about the nosebleed!).
But, couldn’t Labour work something in to leave the door open? The scorched Earth plan from Sunak scares. If Labour box clever, could they say/do something that prevents Sunny et al blocking their successor?
They won’t because, call me a cynic, Starmer isn’t going to reverse the decision. In fact, it gets him off the hook. HS2 is seen as a giant money pit. We can apportion blame for that squarely at the Tories’ doorstep. But Starmer isn’t going to sweep into power and re-sign up to something that is considered to be a money pit.
Far better, politically, to take on this northern infrastructure stuff and pledge to turbo charge it. NPR, station upgrades, trams, connectivity etc etc. Use the failed HS2 project as an albatross to hang round the Tories neck in the years to come.
Even if they don't reverse it Labour should put the boot into Sunak's shell game spending scam.
This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.
No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…
The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
An unsustainable position to take and just plain ridiculous. I get when you don't want to show your hand, but everyone figured out what the position was by the very fact of not answering, so denying it just looked silly.
I doubt we could find a single human being who, seeing the responses refusing to confirm the position, were not able to get the final call almost exactly right. So what was the point of stalling?
This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.
No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…
The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
All that will be forgotten by the time the election comes, it’s another dividing line potentially with Labour that will be fought over for the next year but the details we and the media have focussed on the last two weeks won’t be in most voters’ minds, just the policy good or bad. Better to get this done now than have it hanging over nearer a campaign.
Individual things are always forgotten, but their effect lingers. If they didn't, nothing would ever matter apart from what is said in a General Election campaign, yet most of the time the campaign does not change things much at all (2017 being an exception).
People will remember the pain of the last few years even if things are looking rosier in a year, they will remember how weak the government seemed, how listless and divided, how nothing much seemed to work.
This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.
No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…
The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
All that will be forgotten by the time the election comes, it’s another dividing line potentially with Labour that will be fought over for the next year but the details we and the media have focussed on the last two weeks won’t be in most voters’ minds, just the policy good or bad. Better to get this done now than have it hanging over nearer a campaign.
Nah, of course its marginal but its still an own goal, and trust is one of the few things a failing PM might have been able to hold onto.
Could have moved the leaders speech to the front of the week once the leaks all came out, then no need to lie on tv for three days about not having made a decision.
If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.
Or the chancellor who thought refurbishing 50 schools a year out of 25,000 was sufficient investment in the long term. The Treasury are much maligned on here, but they are led by politicians.
And, at least in theory, Rishi is one of our more numerate top politicians.
I think the moral is that you can use maths to make numbers do anything if you torture them enough.
If you want numbers and reality, physics is the way to go.
Steven Swinford @Steven_Swinford · 30m Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
In terms of his legacy as a statesman, his biggest mistake was to hold a referendum while simultaneously doing everything he could to toxify one of the options. He should have remained as neutral as possible and then maybe the aftermath wouldn't have been so divisive.
I'd say the opposite. He pulled his punches with more than half an eye on Tory party management. He should have fought harder and nastier for the option (Remain) he believed was in the national interest.
He should have stayed out of it.
Leading the remain campaign himself made it Tory versus Tory, when most Tories leaned leave. As a consequence the campaign pulled its punches on its Tory opponents, for fear of splitting the party, and Labour weren’t motivated to get involved in a Tory-led campaign. Plus people who didn’t like the government or the PM were handed a chance to vote against the PM.
This is a black day for the governance of this country.
Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.
The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
I did argue against the Leeds line closure.
The only thing I half understood was the HS2-HS1 link, which was always a poor compromise. Should probably still have gone ahead, though.
BTW, I still half expect OOC-Euston to be cancelled.
The cost savings from cancelling Manchester to Birmingham will be used to pay for OOC to Euston.
This is a black day for the governance of this country.
Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.
The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
Yes. This is where the trouble really started.
I could be sold on the concept of updated, high speed rail capacity linking the north east and north west with London (and eventually supported by an upgraded cross Pennine route improving links everywhere between Liverpool to Newcastle/York/Hull). Once bits started being cut away was when the rot set in. Much easier to start chopping the rest once you start abandoning parts of the plan. The pledge and promise was as much about Yorkshire and the North East as it was Manchester and the North West.
They're keeping quiet about it because they won't challenge the Bank. *Nobody* holds the Bank remotely accountable for its disastrous actions - as far as I can see they are actively ruining the country, and politicians are the fall guys.
They're keeping quiet about it because they won't challenge the Bank. *Nobody* holds the Bank remotely accountable for its disastrous actions - as far as I can see they are actively ruining the country, and politicians are the fall guys.
Not just the Bank of England but the ECB and the Fed
This is a black day for the governance of this country.
Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.
The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
Yes. This is where the trouble really started.
I could be sold on the concept of updated, high speed rail capacity linking the north east and north west with London (and eventually supported by an upgraded cross Pennine route improving links everywhere between Liverpool to Newcastle/York/Hull). Once bits started being cut away was when the rot set in. Much easier to start chopping the rest once you start abandoning parts of the plan. The pledge and promise was as much about Yorkshire and the North East as it was Manchester and the North West.
Ben Houchen was making just that point on Sky saying it is not all about Manchester
Never heard of him but enjoyed watching the video. Now subscribed to his channel.
Not sure he knows what he's talking about though. He sounded pretty clear that "none of the work going on around Lichfield is about connecting to the West Coast Line" but that runs counter to everything I've read including this today from the Government:
"23.So we will complete Phase 1 of HS2 between London and the West Midlands as planned. There will be two branches: one to central Birmingham; and one to Handsacre, near Lichfield, meaning passengers will be able to travel on HS2 trains through to Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland, joining the West Coast Main Line for the rest of their journeys."
They're keeping quiet about it because they won't challenge the Bank. *Nobody* holds the Bank remotely accountable for its disastrous actions - as far as I can see they are actively ruining the country, and politicians are the fall guys.
Not just the Bank of England but the ECB and the Fed
Apparently the US has 34 trillion dollars of debt
But the ECB isn't selling its bonds at the bottom of the market and making a huge loss. And the Fed is selling them, but just chalking up the loss on its books, not getting the US Treasury to cover the losses. Our Bank is the only one doing it this way, and they're doing it with the our Chancellor writing the cheques, and our so-called cautious PM not raising an eyebrow.
FIFA lifts Russian ban from international football
That is controversial
They have also decided that the 2030 World Cup will be played in Spain, Portugal, Morocco and….. South America. Genius, no issues with increased carbon footprint, different seasons and jet lag.
This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.
No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…
The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
All that will be forgotten by the time the election comes, it’s another dividing line potentially with Labour that will be fought over for the next year but the details we and the media have focussed on the last two weeks won’t be in most voters’ minds, just the policy good or bad. Better to get this done now than have it hanging over nearer a campaign.
I reckon the spectacle of someone telling really shameless and blatant lies is something that will stick with a lot of people who probably won't remember much about the policy issues.
Smart countries build on their long-term commitments rather than discard them.
So today I confirm that because of this decision, alongside Sizewell C, we will deliver the core Northern Powerhouse Rail. HS2 to Manchester. East West Rail.
This is a black day for the governance of this country.
Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.
The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
Yes. This is where the trouble really started.
I could be sold on the concept of updated, high speed rail capacity linking the north east and north west with London (and eventually supported by an upgraded cross Pennine route improving links everywhere between Liverpool to Newcastle/York/Hull). Once bits started being cut away was when the rot set in. Much easier to start chopping the rest once you start abandoning parts of the plan. The pledge and promise was as much about Yorkshire and the North East as it was Manchester and the North West.
Ben Houchen was making just that point on Sky saying it is not all about Manchester
Ben Houchen announced Teesside was getting £900m or so - most of which was already announced....
This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.
No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…
The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
I listened to the whole nonsensical hour. I thought it dreadful rubbish. A quick Google to find commentary seems to suggest it was Sunak at his sublime best.
I commented earlier that it was a mistake for Sunak as PM to call for "change". The commentariat are loving this notion of not looking back and only looking forward considering 40 years of Starmer government inertia offset by a bright Sunak future. Bizarre, but it seems to be working. Is this more Cummings genius?
Comments
But a few months might be plenty to show if the kind of people wanting to become Tory leader are lacking. Perhaps a GE campaign would be enough.
So, if someone won a leadership election starting right now, I see a lot of scope for their replacement post-GE.
The wrong person in place for just a few months and running a poor GE campaign or being exposed during one could be enough
for them to go post-GE.
So, I think perform with what passes for honour at a GE and you might stay on, but no guarantee.
I also thin pre GE replacement and post GE replacement favour different candidates.
Pre GE would be a panic to salvage something from the GE. Presentability to the electorate would be important and might favour Penny (whether her Boris like relationship with facts would see her ratings survive a GE campaign intact, I'm sceptical)
Post GE would be a more ideologically driven leadership election and would favour Badenoch, Braverman or someone of that type.
@faisalislam
Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…
Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2
===
This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.
I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.
And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???
I indicated yesterday I thought they were right because McCarthy tried to help Trump steal the election so he's entirely unsuitable for the job.
For a start, it is mere civil law, so 'punishment' is a questionable description.
In addition, offence is absolutely no ground for any such action unless it is couple with untruth. Mere insults, or even the most offensive opinion imaginable, are not libel if not also founded on a lie about an individual.
Suspect Speaker is going to erupt shortly.
See also, unprotecting and selling off the land on the HS2 Manc corridor;
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2023/10/04/land-on-axed-hs2-routes-will-not-be-protected/
Is there any chance of a Shirley Porter style surcharge on him if it turns out that he's wasted loads of public money on this tantrum?
(I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
Sunak is a bad man. A silly man. And a bad man.
Dunno who will act as a Danny Alexander style squirtbreath to parade the note publically.
EDIT: quoted the wrong Casino post, but you get my drift.
We need more long-termism in government and in public policy. Not thinking about the next electoral cycle, but about what the country needs in two or three decades - for that is how long some of these projects take to plan, build and get benefit from.
Instead, we get decisions made on electoral cycles.
Which is sad, because it is likely that we can get cross-party agreement on long-term projects, as HS2 did.
We will never compete internationally to our full potential if we continue to have such a short-term view.
The whole thread is interesting, not least how the debt deal went down:
https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709574816326439283
..and what signals is McCarthy sending us?
Dems: "We would like to read the $200 billion, 71-page bill we've never seen. You promised 72 hours but we'll settle for 90 minutes."
McCarthy: GFY..
...Dems: well we are going to take that time, but we are satisfied, we'll pass your bill to help you get out of the jam you created for yourself
McCarthy: the Democrats wanted to shut down the government and f*ck the troops..
...People want us to give the guy credit for stopping a shutdown but it is still not clear to me right now sitting here writing this that he *intended* to do that.
This really matters and not just on an emotional level- the resolution set up not one but two new legislative problems..
...Now we have to pass an omnibus or face a shutdown again by Thanksgiving AND we have to fund military assistance to Ukraine pretty soon. But we are told McCarthy is going to help us there, he has made an agreement to help Ukraine.
And what does McCarthy say about that? This: "There is no side deal on funding Ukraine."..
https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709574816326439283
...People say "he couldn't make a deal it would compromise his power" and they're just wrong, that was a solvable problem. He could've publicly or privately given us a sense the CR was good faith and we were going to get through the omnibus, stave off a shutdown, and help Ukraine...
...This came down to trust, and that's the word I saw and heard from House Democrats more than any other word. We did not trust Kevin McCarthy and he gave us no reason to. He could have done so (and I suspect saved his gavel) through fairly simple actions. He chose not to do that...
But yes, it's entirely true that this ought both to have been consulted on - something explicitly avoided - and needs to be brought before Parliament.
I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.
@Steven_Swinford
·
30m
Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech
It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled
It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street
Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background
@benrileysmith
This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.
No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…
But, couldn’t Labour work something in to leave the door open? The scorched Earth plan from Sunak scares. If Labour box clever, could they say/do something that prevents Sunny et al blocking their successor?
Yorkshire lad Rishi Sunak blames London as he scraps the northern leg of HS2. Plus, the Tories look to US Republicans this conference season, says
@Hariboconomics
That's what we need to know.
If we had not had an EU referendum, then we'd either had had one later, or a UKIP government...
Much of the blame lies wit earlier governments (especially Blair's), who repeatedly ignored concerns (false and real) about EU membership.
@steverichards14
A depressing day…HS2 was a rare example of an infrastructure project that had finally staggered past political and planning obstacles..Sunak is right about the mismanagement ( his govn was ultimately in charge but no doubt lack of effective scrutiny led to casual spending of money)..the answer was to sort out accountability and future spending on HS2..and to appoint top managers from countries that manage these tasks successfully…There’s no guarantee all the new proposed transport projects will happen…based on precedent few will be completed... UK doomed to have poor transport for decades to come.
That is controversial
I think the moral is that you can use maths to make numbers do anything if you torture them enough.
If you want numbers and reality, physics is the way to go.
The only thing I half understood was the HS2-HS1 link, which was always a poor compromise. Should probably still have gone ahead, though.
BTW, I still half expect OOC-Euston to be cancelled.
I also still think he was wet for quitting after the vote and should have stayed and solved it, especially with his amazing negotiating skills with the EU, as by walking away he gave us the shitshow of My, Boris etc etc who filled the vacuum he created. He broke it and should have owned it.
Far better, politically, to take on this northern infrastructure stuff and pledge to turbo charge it. NPR, station upgrades, trams, connectivity etc etc. Use the failed HS2 project as an albatross to hang round the Tories neck in the years to come.
> Asia begins at the end of Landstrasse. (Alternatively, The Balkans begin at the Rennweg.)
Rishi Sunak 2023:
> The North begins at Cricklewood.
I doubt we could find a single human being who, seeing the responses refusing to confirm the position, were not able to get the final call almost exactly right. So what was the point of stalling? Individual things are always forgotten, but their effect lingers. If they didn't, nothing would ever matter apart from what is said in a General Election campaign, yet most of the time the campaign does not change things much at all (2017 being an exception).
People will remember the pain of the last few years even if things are looking rosier in a year, they will remember how weak the government seemed, how listless and divided, how nothing much seemed to work.
Could have moved the leaders speech to the front of the week once the leaks all came out, then no need to lie on tv for three days about not having made a decision.
HMG seem to be keeping very quiet about this. I'm not sure why.
Leading the remain campaign himself made it Tory versus Tory, when most Tories leaned leave. As a consequence the campaign pulled its punches on its Tory opponents, for fear of splitting the party, and Labour weren’t motivated to get involved in a Tory-led campaign. Plus people who didn’t like the government or the PM were handed a chance to vote against the PM.
Wilson had it right.
The giant asset price crash that nobody is talking about
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/04/giant-asset-price-crash-nobody-talking-about-bonds/
I could be sold on the concept of updated, high speed rail capacity linking the north east and north west with London (and eventually supported by an upgraded cross Pennine route improving links everywhere between Liverpool to Newcastle/York/Hull). Once bits started being cut away was when the rot set in. Much easier to start chopping the rest once you start abandoning parts of the plan. The pledge and promise was as much about Yorkshire and the North East as it was Manchester and the North West.
Apparently the US has 34 trillion dollars of debt
"23.So we will complete Phase 1 of HS2 between London and the West Midlands as planned. There will be two branches: one to central Birmingham; and one to Handsacre, near Lichfield, meaning passengers will be able to travel on HS2 trains through to Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland, joining the West Coast Main Line for the rest of their journeys."
So who is right?
"No HS2 = no ambition for our country just when the whole world is looking at us. Now is a time to be AMBITIOUS! #GreatDecision"
https://x.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1227259322540994560?s=20
Incredible timing.
Rishi Sunak announces T Levels will be scrapped… during “T levels week”
Someone needs to tell the DfE Twitter guys…
https://inews.co.uk/news/hs2-manchester-leg-contracts-signed-up-before-project-scrapped-2662433
Smart countries build on their long-term commitments rather than discard them.
So today I confirm that because of this decision, alongside Sizewell C, we will deliver the core Northern Powerhouse Rail. HS2 to Manchester. East West Rail.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-autumn-statement-2022-speech
I commented earlier that it was a mistake for Sunak as PM to call for "change". The commentariat are loving this notion of not looking back and only looking forward considering 40 years of Starmer government inertia offset by a bright Sunak future. Bizarre, but it seems to be working. Is this more Cummings genius?
Unbelievable.