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Rishi needs to define what Sunak-ism is to stand a chance – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,410
    The hidden message in everything today is that the Government has absolutely no cash and is desperate for it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    edited October 2023

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…

    Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2

    ===

    This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.

    I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.

    And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???

    Some people may recall that when the TSR2 aircraft was cancelled, they destroyed the manufacturing jigs and took the blueprints out into the carpark where they were unceremoniously burnt.

    Sunak is a bad man. A silly man. And a bad man.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…

    Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2

    ===

    This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.

    I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.

    And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???

    This is almost unbelievable. Worth remembering that Sunak was elected on a manifesto to build HS2 to Manchester and Leeds. Nobody has voted for this vandalism. If there are any decent Tories left they need to stand up against this. General election now.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited October 2023

    Andy Street looks increasingly like the Wealdstone Raider.

    Suspect Liam Byrne's note has been preserved and will be returned to sender with the insertion of the word 'REALLY'.

    Dunno who will act as a Danny Alexander style squirtbreath to parade the note publically.

    EDIT: quoted the wrong Casino post, but you get my drift.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    More generally:

    We need more long-termism in government and in public policy. Not thinking about the next electoral cycle, but about what the country needs in two or three decades - for that is how long some of these projects take to plan, build and get benefit from.

    Instead, we get decisions made on electoral cycles.

    Which is sad, because it is likely that we can get cross-party agreement on long-term projects, as HS2 did.

    We will never compete internationally to our full potential if we continue to have such a short-term view.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…

    Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2

    ===

    This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.

    I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.

    And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???

    That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.

    (I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
    Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
  • viewcode said:

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…

    Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2

    ===

    This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.

    I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.

    And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???

    Some people may recall that when the TSR2 aircraft was cancelled, they destroyed the manufacturing jigs and took the blueprints out into the carpark where they were unceremoniously burnt.

    Sunak is a bad man. A silly man. And a bad man.
    Nonsense. Sunak is every bit as honest as Johnson and every bit as competent as Truss. I won't hear a word against him.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    The hidden message in everything today is that the Government has absolutely no cash and is desperate for it.

    Despite the highest levels of taxation ever.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    @rcs1000 demonstrated this, yesterday.

    The idea that Ds should have bailed out McCarthy is a codicil of the larger logic of DC punditry in which R bad behavior/destruction is assumed, a baseline like weather, and Ds managing the consequences of that behavior is a given. It’s part of DC being hardwired for the GOP.
    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1709568786389443026

    Following on from that, a pretty clear exposition by a Dem representative of why they voted against McCarthy remaining in post.

    Pretty evident people don't understand a key piece of House Dems' thinking on McCarthy and governance of the House. The idea that we acted out of schadenfreude or pique with no thought to the legislative outlook is, of course, silly nonsense. Here's what the takes are missing-..
    https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709559909488976279
    What's the gist of the thread? Can only see the linked tweet because I have no Twit account.

    I indicated yesterday I thought they were right because McCarthy tried to help Trump steal the election so he's entirely unsuitable for the job.
    Indeed.

    The whole thread is interesting, not least how the debt deal went down:
    https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709574816326439283
    ..and what signals is McCarthy sending us?

    Dems: "We would like to read the $200 billion, 71-page bill we've never seen. You promised 72 hours but we'll settle for 90 minutes."

    McCarthy: GFY..

    ...Dems: well we are going to take that time, but we are satisfied, we'll pass your bill to help you get out of the jam you created for yourself

    McCarthy: the Democrats wanted to shut down the government and f*ck the troops..

    ...People want us to give the guy credit for stopping a shutdown but it is still not clear to me right now sitting here writing this that he *intended* to do that.

    This really matters and not just on an emotional level- the resolution set up not one but two new legislative problems..

    ...Now we have to pass an omnibus or face a shutdown again by Thanksgiving AND we have to fund military assistance to Ukraine pretty soon. But we are told McCarthy is going to help us there, he has made an agreement to help Ukraine.

    And what does McCarthy say about that? This: "There is no side deal on funding Ukraine."..


    https://twitter.com/Fritschner/status/1709574816326439283
    ...People say "he couldn't make a deal it would compromise his power" and they're just wrong, that was a solvable problem. He could've publicly or privately given us a sense the CR was good faith and we were going to get through the omnibus, stave off a shutdown, and help Ukraine...

    ...This came down to trust, and that's the word I saw and heard from House Democrats more than any other word. We did not trust Kevin McCarthy and he gave us no reason to. He could have done so (and I suspect saved his gavel) through fairly simple actions. He chose not to do that...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.

    Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
    Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Should something of this magnitude (HS2) have been announced in parliament?

    Suspect Speaker is going to erupt shortly.

    He must be seriously angry, I have lost count over the last two weeks where Hoyle has been on the airwaves and making statements telling people to stop demanding an urgent answer from Sunak re HS2 because it must be announced in Parliament. He did didn’t he? Didn’t he?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited October 2023
    Deleted
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    The Government today announced it will extend the Metrolink to Manchester Airport

    Only one problem... that tram line was opened in 2014

    Lol 😂

    Sunak: “Today I will repeal the ban on trams serving Manchester airport.”
  • All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.

    Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
    Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
    Exactly and have you not noticed that a lot of the stuff that Labour did build decades ago, now looks very dated compared to the new Tory stuff?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.

    You are like a broken record, starting with a hypothesis then desperately trying to find any evidence to fit it. The centralist BJO.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited October 2023
    It's all an accounting trick to cut taxes for the next election.

    All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.

    Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
    Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
    Exactly and have you not noticed that a lot of the stuff that Labour did build decades ago, now looks very dated compared to the new Tory stuff?
    Yeah by not building new schools Rishi is not stacking up WRAAC problems for future governments.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    .
    boulay said:

    Should something of this magnitude (HS2) have been announced in parliament?

    Suspect Speaker is going to erupt shortly.

    He must be seriously angry, I have lost count over the last two weeks where Hoyle has been on the airwaves and making statements telling people to stop demanding an urgent answer from Sunak re HS2 because it must be announced in Parliament. He did didn’t he? Didn’t he?
    Hoyle is an feeble irrelevance.

    But yes, it's entirely true that this ought both to have been consulted on - something explicitly avoided - and needs to be brought before Parliament.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.

    Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
    Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
    Exactly and have you not noticed that a lot of the stuff that Labour did build decades ago, now looks very dated compared to the new Tory stuff?
    No kidding, you should see the state of all the coal mines Labour built in the 80’s. All dirty, buildings collapsed already to the point the mines aren’t even working anymore.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    eek said:

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…

    Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2

    ===

    This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.

    I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.

    And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???

    That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.

    (I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
    Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
    I really doubt that Starmer's Labour would do that; Starmer gets a nosebleed if he goes out of North London. (I'm expecting to see toilet paper stuck up his nostrils next week in Liverpool).

    I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    boulay said:

    All the callers on Tom Swarbrick's LBC programme are impressed with Sunak's performance today. One guy now saying Conservatives deliver capital projects and Labour don't.

    Over the last 13 years, how many capital projects have Labour delivered? And how many by the Tories?
    Well the Tories have delivered 40 new hospitals...oh wait.
    Exactly and have you not noticed that a lot of the stuff that Labour did build decades ago, now looks very dated compared to the new Tory stuff?
    No kidding, you should see the state of all the coal mines Labour built in the 80’s. All dirty, buildings collapsed already to the point the mines aren’t even working anymore.
    Bet they were made out of AAC concrete... ;)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    eek said:

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…

    Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2

    ===

    This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.

    I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.

    And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???

    That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.

    (I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
    Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
    I really doubt that Starmer's Labour would do that; Starmer gets a nosebleed if he goes out of North London. (I'm expecting to see toilet paper stuck up his nostrils next week in Liverpool).

    I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
    Sadly, I think you are right (on the substantive point, not sure about the nosebleed!).

    But, couldn’t Labour work something in to leave the door open? The scorched Earth plan from Sunak scares. If Labour box clever, could they say/do something that prevents Sunny et al blocking their successor?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    boulay said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
    I'd argue quite well. Settled a generations long dispute and lanced the boil of Euroscepticism for a while. People see more clearly what the EU offers.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.

    My question is: is it really that easy? Could the scorched Earth plan be blocked somehow?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @BloombergUK

    Yorkshire lad Rishi Sunak blames London as he scraps the northern leg of HS2. Plus, the Tories look to US Republicans this conference season, says
    @Hariboconomics
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    Any sign of the erm, actual Cabinet being involved in decision over the biggest infrastructure reversal in god knows how many decades?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    Cancelling HS2 will benefit the North. Northwood, North Ealing, North Acton, North Finchley, North Woolwich, North Weald Bassett …….
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    boulay said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
    According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Will the new West Yorkshire trams run down the new Shipley bypass.

    That's what we need to know.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    ...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
    According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
    Yes. Rightly or wrongly, vast numbers of people wanted a referendum on the EU. EU membership was a rancid sore running through British politics.

    If we had not had an EU referendum, then we'd either had had one later, or a UKIP government...

    Much of the blame lies wit earlier governments (especially Blair's), who repeatedly ignored concerns (false and real) about EU membership.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    steve richards
    @steverichards14

    A depressing day…HS2 was a rare example of an infrastructure project that had finally staggered past political and planning obstacles..Sunak is right about the mismanagement ( his govn was ultimately in charge but no doubt lack of effective scrutiny led to casual spending of money)..the answer was to sort out accountability and future spending on HS2..and to appoint top managers from countries that manage these tasks successfully…There’s no guarantee all the new proposed transport projects will happen…based on precedent few will be completed... UK doomed to have poor transport for decades to come.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    Any sign of the erm, actual Cabinet being involved in decision over the biggest infrastructure reversal in god knows how many decades?
    Cabinet sanctioned it this morning
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
    According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
    In terms of his legacy as a statesman, his biggest mistake was to hold a referendum while simultaneously doing everything he could to toxify one of the options. He should have remained as neutral as possible and then maybe the aftermath wouldn't have been so divisive.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Scott_xP said:

    @BloombergUK

    Yorkshire lad Rishi Sunak blames London as he scraps the northern leg of HS2. Plus, the Tories look to US Republicans this conference season, says
    @Hariboconomics

    Definite shades of the American Right with the Tories these days. Most unwelcome and it's important it doesn't get rewarded at the ballot box. Not just a loss but a big loss is what's required. Let's hope the public are up to the job. It's no certainty but I think they are.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    BBC PM earnestly discussing Sunak's "time for a change" narrative with two Tory supporting commentators. They don't seem to think it's utter bullshine.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    A bit controversial for Matt. Does he hate Sunak too?
  • FIFA lifts Russian ban from international football

    That is controversial
  • If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.

    Or the chancellor who thought refurbishing 50 schools a year out of 25,000 was sufficient investment in the long term. The Treasury are much maligned on here, but they are led by politicians.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376

    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.

    The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
    According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
    In terms of his legacy as a statesman, his biggest mistake was to hold a referendum while simultaneously doing everything he could to toxify one of the options. He should have remained as neutral as possible and then maybe the aftermath wouldn't have been so divisive.
    I'd say the opposite. He pulled his punches with more than half an eye on Tory party management. He should have fought harder and nastier for the option (Remain) he believed was in the national interest.
  • If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.

    Or the chancellor who thought refurbishing 50 schools a year out of 25,000 was sufficient investment in the long term. The Treasury are much maligned on here, but they are led by politicians.
    And, at least in theory, Rishi is one of our more numerate top politicians.

    I think the moral is that you can use maths to make numbers do anything if you torture them enough.

    If you want numbers and reality, physics is the way to go.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Taz said:

    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.

    The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
    I did argue against the Leeds line closure.

    The only thing I half understood was the HS2-HS1 link, which was always a poor compromise. Should probably still have gone ahead, though.

    BTW, I still half expect OOC-Euston to be cancelled.
  • If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.

    Or the chancellor who thought refurbishing 50 schools a year out of 25,000 was sufficient investment in the long term. The Treasury are much maligned on here, but they are led by politicians.
    And, at least in theory, Rishi is one of our more numerate top politicians.

    I think the moral is that you can use maths to make numbers do anything if you torture them enough.

    If you want numbers and reality, physics is the way to go.
    Or betfair......
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
    According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
    Yes. Rightly or wrongly, vast numbers of people wanted a referendum on the EU. EU membership was a rancid sore running through British politics.

    If we had not had an EU referendum, then we'd either had had one later, or a UKIP government...

    Much of the blame lies wit earlier governments (especially Blair's), who repeatedly ignored concerns (false and real) about EU membership.
    I was pro referendum but my point was more that it was a legacy that clearly didn’t have unanimity, like HS2, was badly planned, not explained clearly and will take possibly decades to get “right” or benefit from.

    I also still think he was wet for quitting after the vote and should have stayed and solved it, especially with his amazing negotiating skills with the EU, as by walking away he gave us the shitshow of My, Boris etc etc who filled the vacuum he created. He broke it and should have owned it.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    eek said:

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…

    Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2

    ===

    This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.

    I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.

    And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???

    That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.

    (I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
    Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
    I really doubt that Starmer's Labour would do that; Starmer gets a nosebleed if he goes out of North London. (I'm expecting to see toilet paper stuck up his nostrils next week in Liverpool).

    I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
    Sadly, I think you are right (on the substantive point, not sure about the nosebleed!).

    But, couldn’t Labour work something in to leave the door open? The scorched Earth plan from Sunak scares. If Labour box clever, could they say/do something that prevents Sunny et al blocking their successor?
    They won’t because, call me a cynic, Starmer isn’t going to reverse the decision. In fact, it gets him off the hook. HS2 is seen as a giant money pit. We can apportion blame for that squarely at the Tories’ doorstep. But Starmer isn’t going to sweep into power and re-sign up to something that is considered to be a money pit.

    Far better, politically, to take on this northern infrastructure stuff and pledge to turbo charge it. NPR, station upgrades, trams, connectivity etc etc. Use the failed HS2 project as an albatross to hang round the Tories neck in the years to come.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
    All that will be forgotten by the time the election comes, it’s another dividing line potentially with Labour that will be fought over for the next year but the details we and the media have focussed on the last two weeks won’t be in most voters’ minds, just the policy good or bad. Better to get this done now than have it hanging over nearer a campaign.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
    According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
    In terms of his legacy as a statesman, his biggest mistake was to hold a referendum while simultaneously doing everything he could to toxify one of the options. He should have remained as neutral as possible and then maybe the aftermath wouldn't have been so divisive.
    I'd say the opposite. He pulled his punches with more than half an eye on Tory party management. He should have fought harder and nastier for the option (Remain) he believed was in the national interest.
    He believed that renegotiating our relationship with the EU was in the national interest but contrived to put himself on the wrong side of his own convictions with the way he framed the debate between Dave's Deal and the abyss.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    eek said:

    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    Land acquisition for phase 2a to Crewe suspended immediately…

    Government to start reselling properties it bought for hs2 phase 2

    ===

    This is scorched earth shit. Stopping Starmer even being able to reverse it and build HS2.

    I am becoming extremely fecked off with Sunak.

    And maybe this feeds the rumours that Dom is back in No 10???

    That is really, really poor. But expected, sadly.

    (I know of one road scheme - the now-A50 - where some buildings were bought over twenty years before the road was eventually built, and rented out.)
    Easy way to block any sales is for Labour to announce a commitment to HS2 next week... Legislation will ensure that any land sold will be subject to compulsory purchase at the rate it was bought at...
    I really doubt that Starmer's Labour would do that; Starmer gets a nosebleed if he goes out of North London. (I'm expecting to see toilet paper stuck up his nostrils next week in Liverpool).

    I really don't expect Labour to reverse this to any good extent.
    Sadly, I think you are right (on the substantive point, not sure about the nosebleed!).

    But, couldn’t Labour work something in to leave the door open? The scorched Earth plan from Sunak scares. If Labour box clever, could they say/do something that prevents Sunny et al blocking their successor?
    They won’t because, call me a cynic, Starmer isn’t going to reverse the decision. In fact, it gets him off the hook. HS2 is seen as a giant money pit. We can apportion blame for that squarely at the Tories’ doorstep. But Starmer isn’t going to sweep into power and re-sign up to something that is considered to be a money pit.

    Far better, politically, to take on this northern infrastructure stuff and pledge to turbo charge it. NPR, station upgrades, trams, connectivity etc etc. Use the failed HS2 project as an albatross to hang round the Tories neck in the years to come.
    Even if they don't reverse it Labour should put the boot into Sunak's shell game spending scam.
  • Cancelling HS2 will benefit the North. Northwood, North Ealing, North Acton, North Finchley, North Woolwich, North Weald Bassett …….

    Klaus von Metternich 1823:
    > Asia begins at the end of Landstrasse. (Alternatively, The Balkans begin at the Rennweg.)

    Rishi Sunak 2023:
    > The North begins at Cricklewood.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited October 2023

    Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
    An unsustainable position to take and just plain ridiculous. I get when you don't want to show your hand, but everyone figured out what the position was by the very fact of not answering, so denying it just looked silly.

    I doubt we could find a single human being who, seeing the responses refusing to confirm the position, were not able to get the final call almost exactly right. So what was the point of stalling?
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
    All that will be forgotten by the time the election comes, it’s another dividing line potentially with Labour that will be fought over for the next year but the details we and the media have focussed on the last two weeks won’t be in most voters’ minds, just the policy good or bad. Better to get this done now than have it hanging over nearer a campaign.
    Individual things are always forgotten, but their effect lingers. If they didn't, nothing would ever matter apart from what is said in a General Election campaign, yet most of the time the campaign does not change things much at all (2017 being an exception).

    People will remember the pain of the last few years even if things are looking rosier in a year, they will remember how weak the government seemed, how listless and divided, how nothing much seemed to work.
  • boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
    All that will be forgotten by the time the election comes, it’s another dividing line potentially with Labour that will be fought over for the next year but the details we and the media have focussed on the last two weeks won’t be in most voters’ minds, just the policy good or bad. Better to get this done now than have it hanging over nearer a campaign.
    Nah, of course its marginal but its still an own goal, and trust is one of the few things a failing PM might have been able to hold onto.

    Could have moved the leaders speech to the front of the week once the leaks all came out, then no need to lie on tv for three days about not having made a decision.
  • Cancelling HS2 will benefit the North. Northwood, North Ealing, North Acton, North Finchley, North Woolwich, North Weald Bassett …….

    North Weald lost its tube service in 1994, North Woolwich closed in 2006.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,410
    Andy_JS said:

    The hidden message in everything today is that the Government has absolutely no cash and is desperate for it.

    Despite the highest levels of taxation ever.
    Over £110bn a year on debt interest, as opposed to £25bn three years ago.

    HMG seem to be keeping very quiet about this. I'm not sure why.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    If Sunak wants everyone to study maths, he should start with the Treasury employees.

    Or the chancellor who thought refurbishing 50 schools a year out of 25,000 was sufficient investment in the long term. The Treasury are much maligned on here, but they are led by politicians.
    And, at least in theory, Rishi is one of our more numerate top politicians.

    I think the moral is that you can use maths to make numbers do anything if you torture them enough.

    If you want numbers and reality, physics is the way to go.
    Engineering, even more so.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    kinabalu said:

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Steven Swinford
    @Steven_Swinford
    ·
    30m
    Remarkable for David Cameron to make intervention on day of Rishi Sunak's conference speech

    It didn't happen when Liz Truss gave her speech last year even as her premiership unravelled

    It's both personal and political for Cameron - he feels his legacy is being torn up

    I think Cameron probably needs to keep quiet about legacy. How’s his Brexit referendum idea working out?
    According to a majority of the country, adequately if not well. I am no fan of Brexit as I made known repeatedly and at length at the time, and I disdain the campaigns that were ran. But the essential principle - that this was a running sore in British politics that needed to be resolved and a referendum was the way to do it - was essentially correct. Although it did not work out in the way that he wanted, he did the right thing.
    In terms of his legacy as a statesman, his biggest mistake was to hold a referendum while simultaneously doing everything he could to toxify one of the options. He should have remained as neutral as possible and then maybe the aftermath wouldn't have been so divisive.
    I'd say the opposite. He pulled his punches with more than half an eye on Tory party management. He should have fought harder and nastier for the option (Remain) he believed was in the national interest.
    He should have stayed out of it.

    Leading the remain campaign himself made it Tory versus Tory, when most Tories leaned leave. As a consequence the campaign pulled its punches on its Tory opponents, for fear of splitting the party, and Labour weren’t motivated to get involved in a Tory-led campaign. Plus people who didn’t like the government or the PM were handed a chance to vote against the PM.

    Wilson had it right.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    the heading of this article is "RISHI NEEDS TO DEFINE WHAT SUNAK-ISM IS...". Well, he's certainly done that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Andy_JS said:

    The hidden message in everything today is that the Government has absolutely no cash and is desperate for it.

    Despite the highest levels of taxation ever.
    Over £110bn a year on debt interest, as opposed to £25bn three years ago.

    HMG seem to be keeping very quiet about this. I'm not sure why.

    The giant asset price crash that nobody is talking about
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/04/giant-asset-price-crash-nobody-talking-about-bonds/
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Taz said:

    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.

    The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
    I did argue against the Leeds line closure.

    The only thing I half understood was the HS2-HS1 link, which was always a poor compromise. Should probably still have gone ahead, though.

    BTW, I still half expect OOC-Euston to be cancelled.
    The cost savings from cancelling Manchester to Birmingham will be used to pay for OOC to Euston.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Taz said:

    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.

    The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
    Yes. This is where the trouble really started.

    I could be sold on the concept of updated, high speed rail capacity linking the north east and north west with London (and eventually supported by an upgraded cross Pennine route improving links everywhere between Liverpool to Newcastle/York/Hull). Once bits started being cut away was when the rot set in. Much easier to start chopping the rest once you start abandoning parts of the plan. The pledge and promise was as much about Yorkshire and the North East as it was Manchester and the North West.
  • Andy_JS said:

    The hidden message in everything today is that the Government has absolutely no cash and is desperate for it.

    Despite the highest levels of taxation ever.
    Over £110bn a year on debt interest, as opposed to £25bn three years ago.

    HMG seem to be keeping very quiet about this. I'm not sure why.

    The giant asset price crash that nobody is talking about
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/04/giant-asset-price-crash-nobody-talking-about-bonds/
    I referred to this yesterday and it is a serious issue across the west, not least in the US
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Cancelling HS2 will benefit the North. Northwood, North Ealing, North Acton, North Finchley, North Woolwich, North Weald Bassett …….

    North Weald lost its tube service in 1994, North Woolwich closed in 2006.
    So they need a new motorway linking them.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    Andy_JS said:

    The hidden message in everything today is that the Government has absolutely no cash and is desperate for it.

    Despite the highest levels of taxation ever.
    Over £110bn a year on debt interest, as opposed to £25bn three years ago.

    HMG seem to be keeping very quiet about this. I'm not sure why.

    The giant asset price crash that nobody is talking about
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/04/giant-asset-price-crash-nobody-talking-about-bonds/
    They're keeping quiet about it because they won't challenge the Bank. *Nobody* holds the Bank remotely accountable for its disastrous actions - as far as I can see they are actively ruining the country, and politicians are the fall guys.
  • Andy_JS said:

    The hidden message in everything today is that the Government has absolutely no cash and is desperate for it.

    Despite the highest levels of taxation ever.
    Over £110bn a year on debt interest, as opposed to £25bn three years ago.

    HMG seem to be keeping very quiet about this. I'm not sure why.

    The giant asset price crash that nobody is talking about
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/04/giant-asset-price-crash-nobody-talking-about-bonds/
    They're keeping quiet about it because they won't challenge the Bank. *Nobody* holds the Bank remotely accountable for its disastrous actions - as far as I can see they are actively ruining the country, and politicians are the fall guys.
    Not just the Bank of England but the ECB and the Fed

    Apparently the US has 34 trillion dollars of debt
  • Taz said:

    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.

    The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
    Yes. This is where the trouble really started.

    I could be sold on the concept of updated, high speed rail capacity linking the north east and north west with London (and eventually supported by an upgraded cross Pennine route improving links everywhere between Liverpool to Newcastle/York/Hull). Once bits started being cut away was when the rot set in. Much easier to start chopping the rest once you start abandoning parts of the plan. The pledge and promise was as much about Yorkshire and the North East as it was Manchester and the North West.
    Ben Houchen was making just that point on Sky saying it is not all about Manchester
  • Andy_JS said:

    Gareth Dennis on HS2 last night:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2us957Gj7Y

    Never heard of him but enjoyed watching the video. Now subscribed to his channel.
    Not sure he knows what he's talking about though. He sounded pretty clear that "none of the work going on around Lichfield is about connecting to the West Coast Line" but that runs counter to everything I've read including this today from the Government:

    "23.So we will complete Phase 1 of HS2 between London and the West Midlands as planned. There will be two branches: one to central Birmingham; and one to Handsacre, near Lichfield, meaning passengers will be able to travel on HS2 trains through to Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland, joining the West Coast Main Line for the rest of their journeys."

    So who is right?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    This tweet is doing the rounds this afternoon

    "No HS2 = no ambition for our country just when the whole world is looking at us. Now is a time to be AMBITIOUS! #GreatDecision"

    https://x.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1227259322540994560?s=20
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    Andy_JS said:

    The hidden message in everything today is that the Government has absolutely no cash and is desperate for it.

    Despite the highest levels of taxation ever.
    Over £110bn a year on debt interest, as opposed to £25bn three years ago.

    HMG seem to be keeping very quiet about this. I'm not sure why.

    The giant asset price crash that nobody is talking about
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/10/04/giant-asset-price-crash-nobody-talking-about-bonds/
    They're keeping quiet about it because they won't challenge the Bank. *Nobody* holds the Bank remotely accountable for its disastrous actions - as far as I can see they are actively ruining the country, and politicians are the fall guys.
    Not just the Bank of England but the ECB and the Fed

    Apparently the US has 34 trillion dollars of debt
    But the ECB isn't selling its bonds at the bottom of the market and making a huge loss. And the Fed is selling them, but just chalking up the loss on its books, not getting the US Treasury to cover the losses. Our Bank is the only one doing it this way, and they're doing it with the our Chancellor writing the cheques, and our so-called cautious PM not raising an eyebrow.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    FIFA lifts Russian ban from international football

    That is controversial

    They have also decided that the 2030 World Cup will be played in Spain, Portugal, Morocco and….. South America. Genius, no issues with increased carbon footprint, different seasons and jet lag.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,410
    That was possibly the most politically inept Tory leadership speech I've heard since Turning Up The Volume.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    boulay said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
    All that will be forgotten by the time the election comes, it’s another dividing line potentially with Labour that will be fought over for the next year but the details we and the media have focussed on the last two weeks won’t be in most voters’ minds, just the policy good or bad. Better to get this done now than have it hanging over nearer a campaign.
    I reckon the spectacle of someone telling really shameless and blatant lies is something that will stick with a lot of people who probably won't remember much about the policy issues.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @SophyRidgeSky

    Incredible timing.

    Rishi Sunak announces T Levels will be scrapped… during “T levels week”

    Someone needs to tell the DfE Twitter guys…
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    HS2 contracts worth £300m were signed off days before Manchester leg was scrapped

    https://inews.co.uk/news/hs2-manchester-leg-contracts-signed-up-before-project-scrapped-2662433
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    That was possibly the most politically inept Tory leadership speech I've heard since Turning Up The Volume.

    Well, I did warn you this morning not to get your hopes up!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    TimS said:

    This tweet is doing the rounds this afternoon

    "No HS2 = no ambition for our country just when the whole world is looking at us. Now is a time to be AMBITIOUS! #GreatDecision"

    https://x.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1227259322540994560?s=20

    From last years Autumn statement

    Smart countries build on their long-term commitments rather than discard them.

    So today I confirm that because of this decision, alongside Sizewell C, we will deliver the core Northern Powerhouse Rail. HS2 to Manchester. East West Rail.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-autumn-statement-2022-speech
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Taz said:

    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.

    The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
    Yes. This is where the trouble really started.

    I could be sold on the concept of updated, high speed rail capacity linking the north east and north west with London (and eventually supported by an upgraded cross Pennine route improving links everywhere between Liverpool to Newcastle/York/Hull). Once bits started being cut away was when the rot set in. Much easier to start chopping the rest once you start abandoning parts of the plan. The pledge and promise was as much about Yorkshire and the North East as it was Manchester and the North West.
    Ben Houchen was making just that point on Sky saying it is not all about Manchester
    Ben Houchen announced Teesside was getting £900m or so - most of which was already announced....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Scott_xP said:

    @eleanormia

    No 10 said the decision on HS2 was made this morning, but this video talking about scrapping HS2 looks like it was filmed in Downing Street

    Here's a clip from 20 September - it's the same picture frame in the background

    @benrileysmith

    This does totally blow a hole through the ‘no final decision’ position.

    No final decision… but we filmed a video announcing it back at Downing Street before conference just in case…

    The no decision interviews were completely bonkers. How to make the PM look (more) untrustworthy and indecisive for absolutely no political gain.
    I listened to the whole nonsensical hour. I thought it dreadful rubbish. A quick Google to find commentary seems to suggest it was Sunak at his sublime best.

    I commented earlier that it was a mistake for Sunak as PM to call for "change". The commentariat are loving this notion of not looking back and only looking forward considering 40 years of Starmer government inertia offset by a bright Sunak future. Bizarre, but it seems to be working. Is this more Cummings genius?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,410
    Foxy said:

    That was possibly the most politically inept Tory leadership speech I've heard since Turning Up The Volume.

    Well, I did warn you this morning not to get your hopes up!
    You were right.

    Unbelievable.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    long term, wibble, wibble, something banal...


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited October 2023
    BobSykes said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Gareth Dennis on HS2 last night:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2us957Gj7Y

    Never heard of him but enjoyed watching the video. Now subscribed to his channel.
    Not sure he knows what he's talking about though. He sounded pretty clear that "none of the work going on around Lichfield is about connecting to the West Coast Line" but that runs counter to everything I've read including this today from the Government:

    "23.So we will complete Phase 1 of HS2 between London and the West Midlands as planned. There will be two branches: one to central Birmingham; and one to Handsacre, near Lichfield, meaning passengers will be able to travel on HS2 trains through to Manchester, Liverpool and Scotland, joining the West Coast Main Line for the rest of their journeys."

    So who is right?
    I live very close to that section. Lots of disruption on the roads.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    This tweet is doing the rounds this afternoon

    "No HS2 = no ambition for our country just when the whole world is looking at us. Now is a time to be AMBITIOUS! #GreatDecision"

    https://x.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1227259322540994560?s=20

    From last years Autumn statement

    Smart countries build on their long-term commitments rather than discard them.

    So today I confirm that because of this decision, alongside Sizewell C, we will deliver the core Northern Powerhouse Rail. HS2 to Manchester. East West Rail.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-autumn-statement-2022-speech
    I'm expecting EWR to get canned as well. After all, Oxford and Cambridge aren't 'north'.

    To all the the lovely people who complained about HS2 not being in their area: just wait until projects in your area are proposed, and people object to those because it's not in their area.

    You'll get what you deserve. Nothing.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    This tweet is doing the rounds this afternoon

    "No HS2 = no ambition for our country just when the whole world is looking at us. Now is a time to be AMBITIOUS! #GreatDecision"

    https://x.com/Jeremy_Hunt/status/1227259322540994560?s=20

    From last years Autumn statement

    Smart countries build on their long-term commitments rather than discard them.

    So today I confirm that because of this decision, alongside Sizewell C, we will deliver the core Northern Powerhouse Rail. HS2 to Manchester. East West Rail.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-autumn-statement-2022-speech
    It really does look like the plan was drawn up at the last moment on the back of a fag packet, probably moments before they decided to ban fags.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    I'm finding it hard to shake off the feeling that the Tory party has been captured by some malign force that actively wishes our country ill.
  • That was possibly the most politically inept Tory leadership speech I've heard since Turning Up The Volume.

    Bad enough for the '22 to be taking their grey suits to the dry cleaners in anticipation?

    Though that means finding another replacement, almost certainly as a caretaker. Gove?

    (Suspect the Conservatives and Sunak are trapped together for the next fifteen months. Unfortunately, we're all trapped there with them.)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    New Thread

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Labour's response to HS2, when it comes, will be interesting. I've just been looking at the Shadow Cabinet, and while Starmer is obviously at the London end, most of the other big players represent Northern seats that are directly or indirectly affected by the HS2 decision. (Rayner, Reeves, Nandy, Phillipson, Cooper, Miliband, Haigh). I suspect they'll be bending Starmer's ear.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    That was possibly the most politically inept Tory leadership speech I've heard since Turning Up The Volume.

    For reasons I won’t explain on PB, I was actually in the hall for that speech. It was poor, but at least it was memorable. And IDS had some passion - even if it didn’t convey well.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    A-levels to be scrapped in 2033!

    Ain’t.

    Gonna.

    Happen.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Labour's response to HS2, when it comes, will be interesting. I've just been looking at the Shadow Cabinet, and while Starmer is obviously at the London end, most of the other big players represent Northern seats that are directly or indirectly affected by the HS2 decision. (Rayner, Reeves, Nandy, Phillipson, Cooper, Miliband, Haigh). I suspect they'll be bending Starmer's ear.

    The obvious political answer is to do both legs of HS2 north and further improvements to northern infrastructure. After all, HS2 north spending won't be towards the end of a first term, and planning for major infrastructure can easily take ten to fifteen years (as HS2 has). Therefore pushing it out to another government...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    What do A-levels, HS2 to Manc, sane government, and THIS THREAD have in common.

    They're ALL SCRAPPED!
  • A-levels to be scrapped in 2033!

    Ain’t.

    Gonna.

    Happen.

    Advanced British Standard (except for students in Wales, Scotland and NI who have their own systems).

    Whoever arranged for it to be A BS exam system had fun, at least.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Taz said:

    This is a black day for the governance of this country.

    Shocking that a short-lease PM can tear up twenty years of planning and building and cross-party agreement in space of a conference.

    The precedent was set when the Leeds leg went, to barely a murmur. The people bellyaching now should have fought it tooth and nail then instead of being relieved their patch was safe.
    Yes. This is where the trouble really started.

    I could be sold on the concept of updated, high speed rail capacity linking the north east and north west with London (and eventually supported by an upgraded cross Pennine route improving links everywhere between Liverpool to Newcastle/York/Hull). Once bits started being cut away was when the rot set in. Much easier to start chopping the rest once you start abandoning parts of the plan. The pledge and promise was as much about Yorkshire and the North East as it was Manchester and the North West.
    Ben Houchen was making just that point on Sky saying it is not all about Manchester
    If we are talking Teeside then it's all about Ben.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited October 2023
    edit
This discussion has been closed.