If nuclear sites start to being more fought over in a civil war, it might be an adivsable time for the unconfirmed, but persistently 50-year old reports of our alien friends shutting them down to come true.
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
"What do you mean you can't find Fegelein, er, I mean Prigozhin? Keep searching for him! I want to see Prigozhin at once! If he goes AWOL, that's desertion. Treason! Bring me Prigozhin! [slams desk] "Prigozhin! Prigozhin! Prigozhin!"
Meanwhile, Yousless has been speaking at SNP conference, and stopped talking to go and personally discuss with a heckler. And then said that an independent Scotland could see "transformational change"
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
Yes. Putin is not going to forgive and forget
Wagner have to win or they die. That’s it
With any luck, they win *and* die.
The world would not be a noticeably worse place for the loss of Putin, Prigozhin and all their scummy henchmen.
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
I think what @WhisperingOracle means is that the best outcome is a short sharp coup, Putin falls, and the new regime calls a truce in/withdraws from Ukraine as it concentrates on firming power in Russia. As the bolsheviks did in WW1
Much less appealing is a full on, full scale Russian civil war with both sides armed with nukes. That is going to kill many innocent people and could easily spill over into international catastrophe
Yup.
I sincerely hope that this is what will happen, as in earlier war-related junctures of Russian history, and as ydoethur has also alluded to.
Apparently there is a group in Russia called the Angry Patriots Club, hardline nationalist types who also think the war in Ukraine has not been harsh enough.
I guess Angry Patriots Club sounds cooler in Russian than it does in English.
I thought Angry Patriots Club was just another name for CCHQ.
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
Meanwhile, Yousless has been speaking at SNP conference, and stopped talking to go and personally discuss with a heckler. And then said that an independent Scotland could see "transformational change"
Meanwhile, Yousless has been speaking at SNP conference, and stopped talking to go and personally discuss with a heckler. And then said that an independent Scotland could see "transformational change"
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
Yes. Putin is not going to forgive and forget
Wagner have to win or they die. That’s it
With any luck, they win *and* die.
The world would not be a noticeably worse place for the loss of Putin, Prigozhin and all their scummy henchmen.
Apparently there is a group in Russia called the Angry Patriots Club, hardline nationalist types who also think the war in Ukraine has not been harsh enough.
I guess Angry Patriots Club sounds cooler in Russian than it does in English.
I thought Angry Patriots Club was just another name for CCHQ.
True Conservatives, like JRM, are very unpatriotic in fact, they frequently attack andy institutions and cultural elements they dislike, even if that means adopting radical, revolutionary ideas such as Parliament not being able to remove a PM.
Somerton and Frome appears nailed on for the Lib Dems and Conservative activity does not appear to be great, whilst there is no imminent by election in Bedfordshire. Therefore northern Lib Dems could well descend on North Yorkshire, I have a funny feeling that Selby and Ainsty may be a 3 way result. If Nadine had gone it would have been a straight Con/Labour contest but now........
The coverage of Selby & Ainsty has been very one-dimensional.
The Greens have a presence in the parts of the former Harrogate Council which are in the constituency and while Labour has strength in Selby, most of the constituency splits in local Government terms between Independents and Conservatives.
The question is how these Independents will break at parliamentary level (I've also heard rumours of a very positive start for the LDs in the constituency).
Meanwhile, Yousless has been speaking at SNP conference, and stopped talking to go and personally discuss with a heckler. And then said that an independent Scotland could see "transformational change"
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
Yes. Putin is not going to forgive and forget
Wagner have to win or they die. That’s it
With any luck, they win *and* die.
The world would not be a noticeably worse place for the loss of Putin, Prigozhin and all their scummy henchmen.
If you come for the king you better not fail.
Well, I wasn't planning too. I was too busy watching Prigozhin take down a President.
But if TSE is willing to take a break from his holiday I daresay he and I might consider doing something about Charles.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
But a 'full blown civil war in Russia' - your words - really isn't something to hope for. It'd be terrible in and of itself plus nobody can model where it leads with any confidence at all.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
Ah China. Whatever you say. They aren't daft. They've played you like a balalaika through all of this.
The global south is behind russia or havent you noticed. The West has lost a lot of respect in the past year.
I'm guessing that you are from the global south and are doing this to earn some cash in your spare time, in which case, can you drop the act? It should be obvious to you that it's all falling apart for Russia.
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
I think what @WhisperingOracle means is that the best outcome is a short sharp coup, Putin falls, and the new regime calls a truce in/withdraws from Ukraine as it concentrates on firming power in Russia. As the bolsheviks did in WW1
Much less appealing is a full on, full scale Russian civil war with both sides armed with nukes. That is going to kill many innocent people and could easily spill over into international catastrophe
Civil war fighters aren’t going to use nukes. Just about the most ineffective type of weapon for insurgency or counter-insurgency.
The nuclear paranoia about Russia is disproportionate. We don’t panic every time nuclear armed Pakistan descends into chaos.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
But a 'full blown civil war in Russia' - your words - really isn't something to hope for. It'd be terrible in and of itself plus nobody can model where it leads with any confidence at all.
Very true Kinabalu a terrible situation for the world might develop.
Google maps is telling me about 7.5 hours from Voronezh to Moscow. Fastest route avoids road closure in E115.
If Putin commands the air (looks like he does) then the convoys will be obliterated before they get anywhere near Moscow. Wagner surely have a plan for this. Insurrection at air bases? Aircraft of their own?
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
You have no compassion or regard for human life. You disgust me and you disgust good men like kinabalu.
I have a lot of regard for Ukrainian lives, and the way they're fighting off your invaders. 👍
Shame tens of thousands have died then. Have you seen the mass graves.
You mean the ones you've created with your mass executions and murders?
Yes, this is another of the mental blindspots these posters have. Clearly there is an approved line about being 'compassionate' and what a shame it is that lots of people are dying and can we not just have peace, but when challenged on it they drop the act and basically start bragging about how many people are being successively killed by the Russians.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
But a 'full blown civil war in Russia' - your words - really isn't something to hope for. It'd be terrible in and of itself plus nobody can model where it leads with any confidence at all.
Very true Kinabalu a terrible situation for the world might develop.
So basically, it's necessary for Putin to surrender quickly?
I'm not actually sure that would be better given who would replace him. However, to each their own. And it is entirely his own fault.
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
A three day campaign against Putin almost certainly offeres better odds of survival than slogging away in Ukraine. And a vastly bigger pay day.
That would take the biscuit. The fieriest toughest rhetoric, but the first to run. I hope the Russian people get to hang him alongside Putin and Lavrov.
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
I think what @WhisperingOracle means is that the best outcome is a short sharp coup, Putin falls, and the new regime calls a truce in/withdraws from Ukraine as it concentrates on firming power in Russia. As the bolsheviks did in WW1
Much less appealing is a full on, full scale Russian civil war with both sides armed with nukes. That is going to kill many innocent people and could easily spill over into international catastrophe
Destabilising the Russian Federation has been touted as a beneficial side-effect of Western support for Ukraine. Relax, Sunak and Cleverly will have anticipated this and thought it all through very carefully.
The BBC backstory on the life story of prigozhin, man it’s wild. In jail for 9 years then went from selling hotdogs to running a massive catering/restaurant business before getting into private military operations.
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
Yes. Putin is not going to forgive and forget
Wagner have to win or they die. That’s it
With any luck, they win *and* die.
The world would not be a noticeably worse place for the loss of Putin, Prigozhin and all their scummy henchmen.
If you come for the king you better not fail.
Oh, for heaven's sake.
"You come at the king, you better not miss."
Or you could have used: "In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die."
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
But a 'full blown civil war in Russia' - your words - really isn't something to hope for. It'd be terrible in and of itself plus nobody can model where it leads with any confidence at all.
Very true Kinabalu a terrible situation for the world might develop.
Kinabalu is concerned about the implications of a full blown civil war. You want Russia to be able to kill Ukrainians without them fighting back. Not the same thing.
Meanwhile, Yousless has been speaking at SNP conference, and stopped talking to go and personally discuss with a heckler. And then said that an independent Scotland could see "transformational change"
Yes. motorhomes for all, not just for the CEO.
They’ll need to improve the A9, A96 and A82 first, or there will be gridlock.
Is the Wagner guy any saner than Putin? Or worse? And at which point does the coup escalate into a nuclear-armed civil war?
Be more Worf. Perhaps today is a good day to die!
My understanding is Prigozhin is worse than Putin. But he might (assuming he wins) decide to call it a day. Throw Putin under the bus, "It's all his fault." and then take over Russia.
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
I think what @WhisperingOracle means is that the best outcome is a short sharp coup, Putin falls, and the new regime calls a truce in/withdraws from Ukraine as it concentrates on firming power in Russia. As the bolsheviks did in WW1
Much less appealing is a full on, full scale Russian civil war with both sides armed with nukes. That is going to kill many innocent people and could easily spill over into international catastrophe
Civil war fighters aren’t going to use nukes. Just about the most ineffective type of weapon for insurgency or counter-insurgency.
The nuclear paranoia about Russia is disproportionate. We don’t panic every time nuclear armed Pakistan descends into chaos.
Russia is sui generis and has been making threats about nukes constantly. Pakistan does not do that
A civil war would be a travesty, these people have nuclear weapons and we do not know what the outcome is. Not to mention the loss of life. The rich who really own Russia won't be impacted as they've all left, many of them are/were sitting in the EU and the USA.
Damnit why have I been banned from watching RT? It would be great to turn it on and watch what is *really* happening, with Alex Salmond and George Galloway giving us the truth.
Wagner KAMAZ trucks, 6 vans and a BTR have peacefully left the vicinity of the Rostov Southern Military District HQ. They are slowly leaving There is no shooting or explosions. Shame on RT journalist Roman Kosarev for spreading disinformation. We have a direct LIVE stream on the ground for
Is the Wagner guy any saner than Putin? Or worse? And at which point does the coup escalate into a nuclear-armed civil war?
Be more Worf. Perhaps today is a good day to die!
My understanding is Prigozhin is worse than Putin. But he might (assuming he wins) decide to call it a day. Throw Putin under the bus, "It's all his fault." and then take over Russia.
Worlds biggest country is still quite the prize.
Wagner is not taking over anything - no political backing, no power players obviously in his corner.
But a rabid dog can still bite hard before it is put down.
The BBC backstory on the life story of prigozhin, man it’s wild. In jail for 9 years then went from selling hotdogs to running a massive catering/restaurant business before getting into private military operations.
That some serious "social mobility"....
Not to mention a "wide range of transferrable skills, and extensive experience of working both individually, and in teams in a variety of different settings."
Apparently there is a group in Russia called the Angry Patriots Club, hardline nationalist types who also think the war in Ukraine has not been harsh enough.
I guess Angry Patriots Club sounds cooler in Russian than it does in English.
I thought Angry Patriots Club was just another name for CCHQ.
Apparently there is a group in Russia called the Angry Patriots Club, hardline nationalist types who also think the war in Ukraine has not been harsh enough.
I guess Angry Patriots Club sounds cooler in Russian than it does in English.
I thought Angry Patriots Club was just another name for CCHQ.
True Conservatives, like JRM, are very unpatriotic in fact, they frequently attack andy institutions and cultural elements they dislike, even if that means adopting radical, revolutionary ideas such as Parliament not being able to remove a PM.
JRM isn't a true conservative. He is a Papist reactionary.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
But a 'full blown civil war in Russia' - your words - really isn't something to hope for. It'd be terrible in and of itself plus nobody can model where it leads with any confidence at all.
A full-blown civil war would be the second-best option possible, behind a rapid victory for one side or the other who immediately decides to withdraw Russian forces from Ukraine as a result.
Given that Putin launched this war, and Prigozhin willingly smashed Bakhmut to pieces over several months, I don't have much hope for the ideal scenario. A full-blown civil war is a more likely path to Russian troops leaving Ukraine, as they are pulled back to fight on one side or the other. And then Ukraine will know peace, and can start the long process of reconstruction and dealing with the grief of its losses.
So, yeah, I'm pretty down with hoping for a Russian civil war actually. If Putin does do a runner and Prigozhin takes over without a fight, and simply continues the war in Ukraine for more months of violence and destruction, I don't see that as a preferable outcome.
Wagner KAMAZ trucks, 6 vans and a BTR have peacefully left the vicinity of the Rostov Southern Military District HQ. They are slowly leaving There is no shooting or explosions. Shame on RT journalist Roman Kosarev for spreading disinformation. We have a direct LIVE stream on the ground for
You still need to work on your messaging - you are now calling it a coup, yet the perpetrators 'peacefully leaving' is not something that would be celebrated if it was an attempted coup. If it is a coup, which you now say it is, then defeating the Wagner forces would be the goal, not waving them off.
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
I think what @WhisperingOracle means is that the best outcome is a short sharp coup, Putin falls, and the new regime calls a truce in/withdraws from Ukraine as it concentrates on firming power in Russia. As the bolsheviks did in WW1
Much less appealing is a full on, full scale Russian civil war with both sides armed with nukes. That is going to kill many innocent people and could easily spill over into international catastrophe
Destabilising the Russian Federation has been touted as a beneficial side-effect of Western support for Ukraine. Relax, Sunak and Cleverly will have anticipated this and thought it all through very carefully.
What will be very interesting is how Wagner forces hold up should full scale fighting actually break out. We know they can fight, but are their stomachs in this?
We can assume so. If they win, they get a huge payout. If they lose, they get shot.
Very high stakes poker.
They should just put one bullet in the gun, spin the barrel, then point it at their own head and fire.
Is the Wagner guy any saner than Putin? Or worse? And at which point does the coup escalate into a nuclear-armed civil war?
Be more Worf. Perhaps today is a good day to die!
My understanding is Prigozhin is worse than Putin. But he might (assuming he wins) decide to call it a day. Throw Putin under the bus, "It's all his fault." and then take over Russia.
Worlds biggest country is still quite the prize.
Wagner is not taking over anything - no political backing, no power players obviously in his corner.
But a rabid dog can still bite hard before it is put down.
I'm trying to think of a good pun on the Wagner group.
If they were on bicycles with bells it would be easier, because then Wagner would be leading the ring, cycle coup.
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
It doesn't seem Russia's version of ChatGPT is very good.
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
A devastating blow from Our Man in Mauritania with the shoogly broadband
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
Apparently there is a group in Russia called the Angry Patriots Club, hardline nationalist types who also think the war in Ukraine has not been harsh enough.
I guess Angry Patriots Club sounds cooler in Russian than it does in English.
I thought Angry Patriots Club was just another name for CCHQ.
True Conservatives, like JRM, are very unpatriotic in fact, they frequently attack andy institutions and cultural elements they dislike, even if that means adopting radical, revolutionary ideas such as Parliament not being able to remove a PM.
JRM isn't a true conservative. He is a Papist reactionary.
True. The Conservative party was only formed in 1834. JRM’s ideas are much older than that.
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
I think what @WhisperingOracle means is that the best outcome is a short sharp coup, Putin falls, and the new regime calls a truce in/withdraws from Ukraine as it concentrates on firming power in Russia. As the bolsheviks did in WW1
Much less appealing is a full on, full scale Russian civil war with both sides armed with nukes. That is going to kill many innocent people and could easily spill over into international catastrophe
Civil war fighters aren’t going to use nukes. Just about the most ineffective type of weapon for insurgency or counter-insurgency.
The nuclear paranoia about Russia is disproportionate. We don’t panic every time nuclear armed Pakistan descends into chaos.
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
You have no compassion or regard for human life. You disgust me and you disgust good men like kinabalu.
I have a lot of regard for Ukrainian lives, and the way they're fighting off your invaders. 👍
Shame tens of thousands have died then. Have you seen the mass graves.
Yes, thousands have dies because of the criminal Russian culture's foreign aggression. I said from the start Russian failure was inevitable. Now the end game is happening. The West will be triumphant and your genocidal idol will lose. Ha ha ha.
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
Vlad's payment didn't hit your PayPal account? Sad times. Back to wanking in your mum's back bedroom.
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
It doesn't seem Russia's version of ChatGPT is very good.
superiority and the ability to discover and destroy enemy troop concentrations and supply depots får behind the frontline. Good Russian reconnaissance makes strategic, and often even tactical, surprise nearly impossible. Russia also have a clear advantage in artillery. Russian air superiority and good reconnaissance makes Ukrainian attacks very hard. Especially since there are enormous amounts of mines everywhere. The UkrAF also seems to lack good Air Defence at the frontline. Russian losses of aircrafts has been very low. When Ukrainian ground units attack they must attack through mine fields since they can't demine them in advance due to Russian fire control. Ukrainian forces can't concentrate in huge numbers since they will be discovered in advance if they do that. The Ukrainians have to rush through the minefields with limited resources and hope that their follow up reinforcements don't get to mauled by Russian air power and artillery. If the Ukrainian forces are strong enough RuAF retreat and their old positions become an artillery trap. After a while the newly captured Ukrainian position is transformed to a moon landscape and Russian forces counterattack. Mostly they succeeds in recapturing lost territory and the Ukrainians withdraw. Sometimes Ukrainian units hold on to newly captured positions and move the frontline one or two kilometers, but to a high price. During these 19 days Ukraine has fought an uphill battle, which seemed doomed from the start. The result is probably clearly higher casualties among the Ukrainians, than by the Russian side. This means that UkrAF becomes weaker in comparison to the RuAF. That's one goal not achieved. If the other goals where successful you could accept normal losses, but that's not the case. Ukrainian territorial gains, both on the Southern and Eastern fronts has been minimal and nothing indicates that will change. That in combination with high losses, especially losses on video, destroys all possibility of a propaganda victory. Now Ukraine must try to hide the failed counteroffensive by denying it's existence and downplaying the losses. Ukraine and its supporters still dominate western media so they might have some success there. But doubts will grow even in the west, that the war is winnable and worth spending huge resources on.
RusGPT not brilliant is it.
About as good as some incoherent drivel this morning, clearly produced by AI, claiming 20% of public sector workers did nothing and could be sacked without there being any difference to public services.
What do we do today that we didn't do in 2015 that requires 1m more people to be employed by the state? I'm not suggesting we go to 1980s level of staffing, just back to 2015.
Apparently there is a group in Russia called the Angry Patriots Club, hardline nationalist types who also think the war in Ukraine has not been harsh enough.
I guess Angry Patriots Club sounds cooler in Russian than it does in English.
I thought Angry Patriots Club was just another name for CCHQ.
True Conservatives, like JRM, are very unpatriotic in fact, they frequently attack andy institutions and cultural elements they dislike, even if that means adopting radical, revolutionary ideas such as Parliament not being able to remove a PM.
JRM isn't a true conservative. He is a Papist reactionary.
Er ... wasn't that the primary definition of a Tory, as much discussed on here lately?
Google maps is telling me about 7.5 hours from Voronezh to Moscow. Fastest route avoids road closure in E115.
If Putin commands the air (looks like he does) then the convoys will be obliterated before they get anywhere near Moscow. Wagner surely have a plan for this. Insurrection at air bases? Aircraft of their own?
It beggars belief the Russian state would be incapable of wiping out any potential rebel force long before it got anywhere near Moscow. It sounds so crazy no doubt the theories that Putin is playing 4D Chess will be going into overdrive already.
But this level of disruption does not seem to help him any either, so something very weird and dumb is clearly happening.
superiority and the ability to discover and destroy enemy troop concentrations and supply depots får behind the frontline. Good Russian reconnaissance makes strategic, and often even tactical, surprise nearly impossible. Russia also have a clear advantage in artillery. Russian air superiority and good reconnaissance makes Ukrainian attacks very hard. Especially since there are enormous amounts of mines everywhere. The UkrAF also seems to lack good Air Defence at the frontline. Russian losses of aircrafts has been very low. When Ukrainian ground units attack they must attack through mine fields since they can't demine them in advance due to Russian fire control. Ukrainian forces can't concentrate in huge numbers since they will be discovered in advance if they do that. The Ukrainians have to rush through the minefields with limited resources and hope that their follow up reinforcements don't get to mauled by Russian air power and artillery. If the Ukrainian forces are strong enough RuAF retreat and their old positions become an artillery trap. After a while the newly captured Ukrainian position is transformed to a moon landscape and Russian forces counterattack. Mostly they succeeds in recapturing lost territory and the Ukrainians withdraw. Sometimes Ukrainian units hold on to newly captured positions and move the frontline one or two kilometers, but to a high price. During these 19 days Ukraine has fought an uphill battle, which seemed doomed from the start. The result is probably clearly higher casualties among the Ukrainians, than by the Russian side. This means that UkrAF becomes weaker in comparison to the RuAF. That's one goal not achieved. If the other goals where successful you could accept normal losses, but that's not the case. Ukrainian territorial gains, both on the Southern and Eastern fronts has been minimal and nothing indicates that will change. That in combination with high losses, especially losses on video, destroys all possibility of a propaganda victory. Now Ukraine must try to hide the failed counteroffensive by denying it's existence and downplaying the losses. Ukraine and its supporters still dominate western media so they might have some success there. But doubts will grow even in the west, that the war is winnable and worth spending huge resources on.
RusGPT not brilliant is it.
About as good as some incoherent drivel this morning, clearly produced by AI, claiming 20% of public sector workers did nothing and could be sacked without there being any difference to public services.
What do we do today that we didn't do in 2015 that requires 1m more people to be employed by the state? I'm not suggesting we go to 1980s level of staffing, just back to 2015.
Finding that in fact that 1m people were needed after all, and that Messrs Cameron and Osborne had screwed up with their Austerity?
Is the Wagner guy any saner than Putin? Or worse? And at which point does the coup escalate into a nuclear-armed civil war?
Be more Worf. Perhaps today is a good day to die!
My understanding is Prigozhin is worse than Putin. But he might (assuming he wins) decide to call it a day. Throw Putin under the bus, "It's all his fault." and then take over Russia.
Worlds biggest country is still quite the prize.
Wagner is not taking over anything - no political backing, no power players obviously in his corner.
But a rabid dog can still bite hard before it is put down.
I'm trying to think of a good pun on the Wagner group.
If they were on bicycles with bells it would be easier, because then Wagner would be leading the ring, cycle coup.
It’s a tricky one, was trying to work something with Operation Valkyrie, die Valkyrie and Wagner but gave up.
Google maps is telling me about 7.5 hours from Voronezh to Moscow. Fastest route avoids road closure in E115.
If Putin commands the air (looks like he does) then the convoys will be obliterated before they get anywhere near Moscow. Wagner surely have a plan for this. Insurrection at air bases? Aircraft of their own?
Who knows ? It’s basically a battle of confidence at this point. If enough of the regular army stays loyal and fights, it’s over; if they don’t, it’s over for Putin.
Wagner’s social media game is definitely superior. It’s not impossible for it to be the first military coup where that’s decisive.
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
Hahaha. All the time in the world won't over come your incel nature. Women are repulsed by you. That is why your deep seated anger at life leads you to adore flabby chested gollums like Vova Putin. Whether this coup succeeds or fails, Russia will now collapse in Ukraine, which means the beady eyed midget will fall from power and end up with a bullet through the skull. Tick tock. Tick tock.
Of all the the specimens of misplaced self importance on here, the idea that the Russian state is going to sick a series of Olgino trolls on to this musty corner of the internet is the most risible. The chances of *insert vapid username* not being some random or even PB grown troublemaker looking for validation are minuscule.
superiority and the ability to discover and destroy enemy troop concentrations and supply depots får behind the frontline. Good Russian reconnaissance makes strategic, and often even tactical, surprise nearly impossible. Russia also have a clear advantage in artillery. Russian air superiority and good reconnaissance makes Ukrainian attacks very hard. Especially since there are enormous amounts of mines everywhere. The UkrAF also seems to lack good Air Defence at the frontline. Russian losses of aircrafts has been very low. When Ukrainian ground units attack they must attack through mine fields since they can't demine them in advance due to Russian fire control. Ukrainian forces can't concentrate in huge numbers since they will be discovered in advance if they do that. The Ukrainians have to rush through the minefields with limited resources and hope that their follow up reinforcements don't get to mauled by Russian air power and artillery. If the Ukrainian forces are strong enough RuAF retreat and their old positions become an artillery trap. After a while the newly captured Ukrainian position is transformed to a moon landscape and Russian forces counterattack. Mostly they succeeds in recapturing lost territory and the Ukrainians withdraw. Sometimes Ukrainian units hold on to newly captured positions and move the frontline one or two kilometers, but to a high price. During these 19 days Ukraine has fought an uphill battle, which seemed doomed from the start. The result is probably clearly higher casualties among the Ukrainians, than by the Russian side. This means that UkrAF becomes weaker in comparison to the RuAF. That's one goal not achieved. If the other goals where successful you could accept normal losses, but that's not the case. Ukrainian territorial gains, both on the Southern and Eastern fronts has been minimal and nothing indicates that will change. That in combination with high losses, especially losses on video, destroys all possibility of a propaganda victory. Now Ukraine must try to hide the failed counteroffensive by denying it's existence and downplaying the losses. Ukraine and its supporters still dominate western media so they might have some success there. But doubts will grow even in the west, that the war is winnable and worth spending huge resources on.
RusGPT not brilliant is it.
About as good as some incoherent drivel this morning, clearly produced by AI, claiming 20% of public sector workers did nothing and could be sacked without there being any difference to public services.
What do we do today that we didn't do in 2015 that requires 1m more people to be employed by the state? I'm not suggesting we go to 1980s level of staffing, just back to 2015.
Where on earth are we employing 1 million more people - got a link? Because in no sector that I can think of are numbers higher?
Local government fewer Nhs reliant on agency staff Schools cutting staff to cover energy and other costs? Social care needing even more agency staff..
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
Of all the the specimens of misplaced self importance on here, the idea that the Russian state is going to sick a series of Olgino trolls on to this musty corner of the internet is the most risible. The chances of *insert vapid username* not being some random or even PB grown troublemaker looking for validation are minuscule.
Both seem pretty inexplicable explanations to me, yet someone is clearly doing it, and with a level of committment to the style and capitalisation of a foreign user that is far more effort than it is worth.
Is the Wagner guy any saner than Putin? Or worse? And at which point does the coup escalate into a nuclear-armed civil war?
Be more Worf. Perhaps today is a good day to die!
My understanding is Prigozhin is worse than Putin. But he might (assuming he wins) decide to call it a day. Throw Putin under the bus, "It's all his fault." and then take over Russia.
Worlds biggest country is still quite the prize.
Wagner is not taking over anything - no political backing, no power players obviously in his corner.
But a rabid dog can still bite hard before it is put down.
I'm trying to think of a good pun on the Wagner group.
If they were on bicycles with bells it would be easier, because then Wagner would be leading the ring, cycle coup.
It’s a tricky one, was trying to work something with Operation Valkyrie, die Valkyrie and Wagner but gave up.
Time for you guys to get your excitement elsewhere....thankfully im young and handsome enough to enjoy time with beautiful women...some of you guys not so much.
superiority and the ability to discover and destroy enemy troop concentrations and supply depots får behind the frontline. Good Russian reconnaissance makes strategic, and often even tactical, surprise nearly impossible. Russia also have a clear advantage in artillery. Russian air superiority and good reconnaissance makes Ukrainian attacks very hard. Especially since there are enormous amounts of mines everywhere. The UkrAF also seems to lack good Air Defence at the frontline. Russian losses of aircrafts has been very low. When Ukrainian ground units attack they must attack through mine fields since they can't demine them in advance due to Russian fire control. Ukrainian forces can't concentrate in huge numbers since they will be discovered in advance if they do that. The Ukrainians have to rush through the minefields with limited resources and hope that their follow up reinforcements don't get to mauled by Russian air power and artillery. If the Ukrainian forces are strong enough RuAF retreat and their old positions become an artillery trap. After a while the newly captured Ukrainian position is transformed to a moon landscape and Russian forces counterattack. Mostly they succeeds in recapturing lost territory and the Ukrainians withdraw. Sometimes Ukrainian units hold on to newly captured positions and move the frontline one or two kilometers, but to a high price. During these 19 days Ukraine has fought an uphill battle, which seemed doomed from the start. The result is probably clearly higher casualties among the Ukrainians, than by the Russian side. This means that UkrAF becomes weaker in comparison to the RuAF. That's one goal not achieved. If the other goals where successful you could accept normal losses, but that's not the case. Ukrainian territorial gains, both on the Southern and Eastern fronts has been minimal and nothing indicates that will change. That in combination with high losses, especially losses on video, destroys all possibility of a propaganda victory. Now Ukraine must try to hide the failed counteroffensive by denying it's existence and downplaying the losses. Ukraine and its supporters still dominate western media so they might have some success there. But doubts will grow even in the west, that the war is winnable and worth spending huge resources on.
RusGPT not brilliant is it.
About as good as some incoherent drivel this morning, clearly produced by AI, claiming 20% of public sector workers did nothing and could be sacked without there being any difference to public services.
What do we do today that we didn't do in 2015 that requires 1m more people to be employed by the state? I'm not suggesting we go to 1980s level of staffing, just back to 2015.
Where on earth are we employing 1 million more people - got a link? Because in no sector that I can think of are numbers higher?
Local government fewer Nhs reliant on agency staff Schools cutting staff to cover energy and other costs? Social care needing even more agency staff..
Public Sector Employment by Sector; Central Gov; UK; HC; SA; Thousands
superiority and the ability to discover and destroy enemy troop concentrations and supply depots får behind the frontline. Good Russian reconnaissance makes strategic, and often even tactical, surprise nearly impossible. Russia also have a clear advantage in artillery. Russian air superiority and good reconnaissance makes Ukrainian attacks very hard. Especially since there are enormous amounts of mines everywhere. The UkrAF also seems to lack good Air Defence at the frontline. Russian losses of aircrafts has been very low. When Ukrainian ground units attack they must attack through mine fields since they can't demine them in advance due to Russian fire control. Ukrainian forces can't concentrate in huge numbers since they will be discovered in advance if they do that. The Ukrainians have to rush through the minefields with limited resources and hope that their follow up reinforcements don't get to mauled by Russian air power and artillery. If the Ukrainian forces are strong enough RuAF retreat and their old positions become an artillery trap. After a while the newly captured Ukrainian position is transformed to a moon landscape and Russian forces counterattack. Mostly they succeeds in recapturing lost territory and the Ukrainians withdraw. Sometimes Ukrainian units hold on to newly captured positions and move the frontline one or two kilometers, but to a high price. During these 19 days Ukraine has fought an uphill battle, which seemed doomed from the start. The result is probably clearly higher casualties among the Ukrainians, than by the Russian side. This means that UkrAF becomes weaker in comparison to the RuAF. That's one goal not achieved. If the other goals where successful you could accept normal losses, but that's not the case. Ukrainian territorial gains, both on the Southern and Eastern fronts has been minimal and nothing indicates that will change. That in combination with high losses, especially losses on video, destroys all possibility of a propaganda victory. Now Ukraine must try to hide the failed counteroffensive by denying it's existence and downplaying the losses. Ukraine and its supporters still dominate western media so they might have some success there. But doubts will grow even in the west, that the war is winnable and worth spending huge resources on.
RusGPT not brilliant is it.
About as good as some incoherent drivel this morning, clearly produced by AI, claiming 20% of public sector workers did nothing and could be sacked without there being any difference to public services.
What do we do today that we didn't do in 2015 that requires 1m more people to be employed by the state? I'm not suggesting we go to 1980s level of staffing, just back to 2015.
Where on earth are we employing 1 million more people - got a link? Because in no sector that I can think of are numbers higher?
Local government fewer Nhs reliant on agency staff Schools cutting staff to cover energy and other costs? Social care needing even more agency staff..
There are two thousand more at the DfE but I suspect that is due to the hollowing out of LEAs as Gove and Morgan centralised everything, so it's probably balanced by losses elsewhere.
Equally, with London weighting the cost is likely much higher overall.
Meanwhile, Yousless has been speaking at SNP conference, and stopped talking to go and personally discuss with a heckler. And then said that an independent Scotland could see "transformational change"
Yes. motorhomes for all, not just for the CEO.
Not now, Scotland. Read the room
Yousless IS reading the room. If the UK gets nuked, Scotland will be far less damaged than England, AND with so much agricultural and energy assets likely still left intact would hold the Whip Hand. So there
superiority and the ability to discover and destroy enemy troop concentrations and supply depots får behind the frontline. Good Russian reconnaissance makes strategic, and often even tactical, surprise nearly impossible. Russia also have a clear advantage in artillery. Russian air superiority and good reconnaissance makes Ukrainian attacks very hard. Especially since there are enormous amounts of mines everywhere. The UkrAF also seems to lack good Air Defence at the frontline. Russian losses of aircrafts has been very low. When Ukrainian ground units attack they must attack through mine fields since they can't demine them in advance due to Russian fire control. Ukrainian forces can't concentrate in huge numbers since they will be discovered in advance if they do that. The Ukrainians have to rush through the minefields with limited resources and hope that their follow up reinforcements don't get to mauled by Russian air power and artillery. If the Ukrainian forces are strong enough RuAF retreat and their old positions become an artillery trap. After a while the newly captured Ukrainian position is transformed to a moon landscape and Russian forces counterattack. Mostly they succeeds in recapturing lost territory and the Ukrainians withdraw. Sometimes Ukrainian units hold on to newly captured positions and move the frontline one or two kilometers, but to a high price. During these 19 days Ukraine has fought an uphill battle, which seemed doomed from the start. The result is probably clearly higher casualties among the Ukrainians, than by the Russian side. This means that UkrAF becomes weaker in comparison to the RuAF. That's one goal not achieved. If the other goals where successful you could accept normal losses, but that's not the case. Ukrainian territorial gains, both on the Southern and Eastern fronts has been minimal and nothing indicates that will change. That in combination with high losses, especially losses on video, destroys all possibility of a propaganda victory. Now Ukraine must try to hide the failed counteroffensive by denying it's existence and downplaying the losses. Ukraine and its supporters still dominate western media so they might have some success there. But doubts will grow even in the west, that the war is winnable and worth spending huge resources on.
RusGPT not brilliant is it.
About as good as some incoherent drivel this morning, clearly produced by AI, claiming 20% of public sector workers did nothing and could be sacked without there being any difference to public services.
What do we do today that we didn't do in 2015 that requires 1m more people to be employed by the state? I'm not suggesting we go to 1980s level of staffing, just back to 2015.
Where on earth are we employing 1 million more people - got a link? Because in no sector that I can think of are numbers higher?
Local government fewer Nhs reliant on agency staff Schools cutting staff to cover energy and other costs? Social care needing even more agency staff..
This, unforrunately, does look like a civil war *might potentially* develop.
Unless Progozhin gets his forces to Moscow quickly, or activates any forces if they're already inside Moscow quickly.
You and I have very different definitions of the word "unfortunately".
Personally I think Russians killing Ukrainians is more unfortunate than Russians killing Russians.
I think what @WhisperingOracle means is that the best outcome is a short sharp coup, Putin falls, and the new regime calls a truce in/withdraws from Ukraine as it concentrates on firming power in Russia. As the bolsheviks did in WW1
Much less appealing is a full on, full scale Russian civil war with both sides armed with nukes. That is going to kill many innocent people and could easily spill over into international catastrophe
Destabilising the Russian Federation has been touted as a beneficial side-effect of Western support for Ukraine. Relax, Sunak and Cleverly will have anticipated this and thought it all through very carefully.
Of all the the specimens of misplaced self importance on here, the idea that the Russian state is going to sick a series of Olgino trolls on to this musty corner of the internet is the most risible. The chances of *insert vapid username* not being some random or even PB grown troublemaker looking for validation are minuscule.
Both seem pretty inexplicable explanations to me, yet someone is clearly doing it, and with a level of committment to the style and capitalisation of a foreign user that is far more effort than it is worth.
If only there was an example of a freelancer with a long standing commitment to trying out a series of personae (with admittedly often crappy attempts at differentiation) on PB.
Comments
All welcome today chaps !
One of Putin's big role models had similar ideas. He even used the word 'untermenschen' to describe this idea.
Wagner have to win or they die. That’s it
[slams desk]
"Prigozhin! Prigozhin! Prigozhin!"
We've all seen the mass graves reports of the atrocities of what your invaders have done, yes.
That's why Ukrainians are fighting so hard to liberate themselves from you.
Yes. motorhomes for all, not just for the CEO.
The world would not be a noticeably worse place for the loss of Putin, Prigozhin and all their scummy henchmen.
I sincerely hope that this is what will happen, as in earlier war-related junctures of Russian history, and as ydoethur has also alluded to.
The Greens have a presence in the parts of the former Harrogate Council which are in the constituency and while Labour has strength in Selby, most of the constituency splits in local Government terms between Independents and Conservatives.
The question is how these Independents will break at parliamentary level (I've also heard rumours of a very positive start for the LDs in the constituency).
But if TSE is willing to take a break from his holiday I daresay he and I might consider doing something about Charles.
Fastest route avoids road closure in E115.
The nuclear paranoia about Russia is disproportionate. We don’t panic every time nuclear armed Pakistan descends into chaos.
I'm not actually sure that would be better given who would replace him. However, to each their own. And it is entirely his own fault.
And a vastly bigger pay day.
That some serious "social mobility"....
"You come at the king, you better not miss."
Or you could have used: "In the Game of Thrones, you win or you die."
Come on! Sort yourself out!
But he might (assuming he wins) decide to call it a day. Throw Putin under the bus, "It's all his fault." and then take over Russia.
Worlds biggest country is still quite the prize.
Anyone wishing for that I am afraid is a muppet.
https://www.rt.com/on-air/
Wagner KAMAZ trucks, 6 vans and a BTR have peacefully left the vicinity of the Rostov Southern Military District HQ. They are slowly leaving There is no shooting or explosions. Shame on RT journalist Roman Kosarev for spreading disinformation. We have a direct LIVE stream on the ground for
@AussieCossack
Channel
But a rabid dog can still bite hard before it is put down.
Given that Putin launched this war, and Prigozhin willingly smashed Bakhmut to pieces over several months, I don't have much hope for the ideal scenario. A full-blown civil war is a more likely path to Russian troops leaving Ukraine, as they are pulled back to fight on one side or the other. And then Ukraine will know peace, and can start the long process of reconstruction and dealing with the grief of its losses.
So, yeah, I'm pretty down with hoping for a Russian civil war actually. If Putin does do a runner and Prigozhin takes over without a fight, and simply continues the war in Ukraine for more months of violence and destruction, I don't see that as a preferable outcome.
Have another go.
If only there were a word for that game…
If they were on bicycles with bells it would be easier, because then Wagner would be leading the ring, cycle coup.
But this level of disruption does not seem to help him any either, so something very weird and dumb is clearly happening.
It’s basically a battle of confidence at this point. If enough of the regular army stays loyal and fights, it’s over; if they don’t, it’s over for Putin.
Wagner’s social media game is definitely superior. It’s not impossible for it to be the first military coup where that’s decisive.
I suppose that's technically true, in one sense.
https://www.flightradar24.com/RSD629/30da93e2
If the whole Russian VIP fleet is heading that way, it’s difficult to believe that Putin isn’t on one of them.
Local government fewer
Nhs reliant on agency staff
Schools cutting staff to cover energy and other costs?
Social care needing even more agency staff..
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/publicsectorpersonnel/timeseries/g6nq/pse
Looks like 800k more than 2015, 1 million more than 2012.
Equally, with London weighting the cost is likely much higher overall.
Your boys are taking a hell of a beating.