A U.S. Defense Official along with multiple other Western Officials have told CNN that the ongoing Ukrainian Offensive is, “Not meeting Expectations on any Front,” with Russian Forces beginning to conduct Operations more “Competently” while utilizing Well-Fortified Defense Lines with extensive Minefields alongside the Support of Air Power and Artillery in an extremely Effective manner causing Ukrainian Armor to be bogged down resulting in Significant Losses.
I wonder if we could be looking at a a potential split. Air forces with Putin, and ground forces with Progozhin.
But then you'd expect much more chaos in the air South of Moscow ; maybe Putin and a couple of others around him only have the loyalty of some, and others at the top have backing elsewhere, particularly among the ground forces.
There are quite a few reports of fighting now in various places on twitter. There are clearly some units that are prepared to fight for Putin/the chain of command.
I mean if it was Monday afternoon it might work a bit better. No-one would be expecting it. But week after week, right on cue, along comes the bot. Maybe it's all centralised target driven bureaucracy that's to blame.
I think it was DA said they are mostly African technicians recruited by Wagner doing it in their spare time. So it has to be Saturday and Sunday.
Recruited by Wagner? Who now think Wagner aren't worth talking about?
Its pretty big cope to hope for a russian civil war to bail ukraine out from its disastrous counteroffensive. A lot of fuss and excitement over nothing. Big picture is Ukraine is losing badly.
Welcome to today’s Russian troll. Decided which side of the civil war you are on yet?
The disaterous counteroffensive.... nice try Ivan, now scat.
Its interesting how as soon as the media pushes a story you guys react like pavlovs dogs. Try doing your own research for a change it would be helpful.
Speaking of pavlova, can I give you some fruit from my garden? I picked my first raspberries today and I would love to give you a raspberry.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
we only look at the conflict, the pattern remains the same. The AFU is grinding away at the Russian defenses and if the pace is maintained, by the end of July at the latest all Western vehicles will have been destroyed. These are losses like in the times of the Second World War - even Rommel would not have burned his soldiers like this. The Russians continue to attack military targets of the enemy at night in order to destroy the weapons stockpiles and supply infrastructure - which they also succeed in doing. Captured Ukrainian soldiers tell of the vast differences between training and reality. They are mostly mobilized men who were trained abroad. Some of them were captured as casualties, although they had asked to be rescued by their own units - they were abandoned - fortunately for them. In my view, there is nothing that can stop the Russians.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
The general population doesn't engage in any Civil War. They didn't in ours. Didn't stop it being a catastrophe. For me. 2 armed groups from the same country fighting in that country fits the definition. There doesn't seem to be much fighting yet, mind.
A Wagner convoy moving towards #Moscow along the M4 highway in #Lipetsk Oblast; a T-90S, BMP-2 IFV, and a number of transport/logistics/fuel vehicles seen.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
The general population doesn't engage in any Civil War. They didn't in ours. Didn't stop it being a catastrophe. For me. 2 armed groups from the same country fighting in that country fits the definition. There doesn't seem to be much fighting yet, mind.
And nor will thete be. Please try and control your excitement over this cia instigated quarrel.
Mishustin is important because if something happens to Putin he's supposed (ahem) to take over as president.
Sonin reckons Prigozhin has "massive support" in the FSB. I'm not sure about that. If it's true, they are going to want this stage to be over FAST before it gets out of their control. I would say it may have been true in the past but isn't true now. Berezovsky was once close to the FSB too.
That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.
Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.
A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.
Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.
It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
Win/win either way then.
A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.
A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
Its interesting how as soon as the media pushes a story you guys react like pavlovs dogs. Try doing your own research for a change it would be helpful.
I have. The head of the Russian private military group called Wagner says he is staging a coup against Vladimir Putin.
No need for ANY western sources at all, to know that its all over. Even if Prigozhin loses, what's left of the Russian military will be in such a shambles it won't be able to resist another push by Ukraine.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
Civil wars don't necessarily have to have the engagement of the ordinary population. Two military structures fighting one another for control of (part of) a country is pretty much the definition of a civil war.
Ordinary Russians will say "meh, the ruler whoever is over the hills and far away"
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
Its interesting how as soon as the media pushes a story you guys react like pavlovs dogs. Try doing your own research for a change it would be helpful.
Speaking of pavlova, can I give you some fruit from my garden? I picked my first raspberries today and I would love to give you a raspberry.
I can chip in with some grapes from my garden. It's a bit early for them to be ripe, so they won't be very sweet yet.
(Genuine problem actually- come the autumn, we'll have way more than we can eat, but nowhere near enough to make other grape products.)
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
Nice to see some sense here kinabalu. On the war you have always been a sensible member of this site. I think you are a good man.
If Rostov is under Wagner control and they are focusing their attention on Russia and not Ukraine, the Russian army in Ukraine - including Crimea - is in big trouble.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.
Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.
A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.
Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.
It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
Win/win either way then.
A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.
A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
Its interesting how as soon as the media pushes a story you guys react like pavlovs dogs. Try doing your own research for a change it would be helpful.
I have. The head of the Russian private military group called Wagner says he is staging a coup against Vladimir Putin.
No need for ANY western sources at all, to know that its all over. Even if Prigozhin loses, what's left of the Russian military will be in such a shambles it won't be able to resist another push by Ukraine.
More crucial. Putin himself has confirmed it on national TV. And we aren't supposed to be "excited" about it?
Ps. I'm not excited. Fascinated and concerned, yes.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
Nice to see some sense here kinabalu. On the war you have always been a sensible member of this site. I think you are a good man.
And if this doesn't make you see sense kinabalu, I don't know what will.
It's like you just got an attaboy from a hardcore Trumpist.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
Civil wars don't necessarily have to have the engagement of the ordinary population. Two military structures fighting one another for control of (part of) a country is pretty much the definition of a civil war.
Ordinary Russians will say "meh, the ruler whoever is over the hills and far away"
Far more Russians died in the civil war than in WW1. Mostly of starvation. About 8 million died. Every sane person in Russia wants to avoid civil war. Engagement isn't the issue. The issue is what actually happens in people's lives and in particular whether they can get food.
Its interesting how as soon as the media pushes a story you guys react like pavlovs dogs. Try doing your own research for a change it would be helpful.
Speaking of pavlova, can I give you some fruit from my garden? I picked my first raspberries today and I would love to give you a raspberry.
I can chip in with some grapes from my garden. It's a bit early for them to be ripe, so they won't be very sweet yet.
(Genuine problem actually- come the autumn, we'll have way more than we can eat, but nowhere near enough to make other grape products.)
I'm hoping for enough (raspberries) to make some jame in the next couple of days. I do like home-made raspberry jam, especially on new baked bread.
Its interesting how as soon as the media pushes a story you guys react like pavlovs dogs. Try doing your own research for a change it would be helpful.
Russian media is reporting on the story - surely that is trustworthy?
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
Ah China. Whatever you say. They aren't daft. They've played you like a balalaika through all of this.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
Nice to see some sense here kinabalu. On the war you have always been a sensible member of this site. I think you are a good man.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
We could. All it needed was for the Russian army to stay in Russia.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
Peace will happen when the Russian invaders withdraw from Ukraine in full.
Every single bit of Ukraine, including Crimea.
A full withdrawal would have saved tens of thousands of Russian lives.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
The general population doesn't engage in any Civil War. They didn't in ours. Didn't stop it being a catastrophe. For me. 2 armed groups from the same country fighting in that country fits the definition. There doesn't seem to be much fighting yet, mind.
Yes, sporadic and unconfirmed reports of a few things, but nothing en masse it seems.
Still extremely significant this has happened even if Prigozhin is arrested by end of day.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
Peace will happen when the Russian invaders withdraw from Ukraine in full.
Every single bit of Ukraine, including Crimea.
A full withdrawal would have saved tens of thousands of Russian lives.
What a silly argument. There was a peace deal on the table last year.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
Peace will happen when the Russian invaders withdraw from Ukraine in full.
Every single bit of Ukraine, including Crimea.
A full withdrawal would have saved tens of thousands of Russian lives.
What a silly argument. There was a peace deal on the table last year.
Was the peace that Russian troops be in Russia, not Ukraine?
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
Yes.
Shame Putin declined the chance and doubled down with a full invasion, really.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
Civil wars don't necessarily have to have the engagement of the ordinary population. Two military structures fighting one another for control of (part of) a country is pretty much the definition of a civil war.
Ordinary Russians will say "meh, the ruler whoever is over the hills and far away"
Far more Russians died in the civil war than in WW1. Mostly of starvation. About 8 million died. Every sane person in Russia wants to avoid civil war.
Yebbut, like I said, this is a spat between military factions, not a civil war. It is an attempted coup played out in the open, on the road and on Twitter. You need to reboot if you think this is or will become a civil war
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
We could. All it needed was for the Russian army to stay in Russia.
They always have such a blind spot on that, weird.
Outside Stop The West rallies I really don't think the pretend concern about lives lost works as an argument, given Russia are the instigating party - and boastful of how much land they have siezed.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
Ah China. Whatever you say. They aren't daft. They've played you like a balalaika through all of this.
The global south is behind russia or havent you noticed. The West has lost a lot of respect in the past year.
I have to say, it must be difficult to commentate on her wife’s batting, but Katherine Sciver-Brunt is not impressing me as a commentator. She’s talking exclusively about herself and not what’s on the field. Like Agnew only worse.
we only look at the conflict, the pattern remains the same. The AFU is grinding away at the Russian defenses and if the pace is maintained, by the end of July at the latest all Western vehicles will have been destroyed. These are losses like in the times of the Second World War - even Rommel would not have burned his soldiers like this. The Russians continue to attack military targets of the enemy at night in order to destroy the weapons stockpiles and supply infrastructure - which they also succeed in doing. Captured Ukrainian soldiers tell of the vast differences between training and reality. They are mostly mobilized men who were trained abroad. Some of them were captured as casualties, although they had asked to be rescued by their own units - they were abandoned - fortunately for them. In my view, there is nothing that can stop the Russians.
Russia has lost half the territory it captured last year. It's like claiming the Germans were still winning in January 1944, because their armies were on Russian soil.
There still seems to be not much going on South of Moscow, as the Wagner forces quietly drive from town to town as on a Saturday morning, or British bank holiday. Everything's fine, nothing to see here folks. Meanwhile trenches are being dug around Moscow and the air seems to be full of private jets leaving to unspecified places, deliberately not entered to radar control.
Where do you get this impression. There are reports and photos of fixed-wing bombing attacks against the Wagner convoys on the M4 motorway that are heading towards Moscow. There are reports of fighting on the outskirts of Voronezh, in the direction of the military airport. Wagner air defence is shooting down helicopters and a military transport plane.
Wagner is making good progress north, but it's not "quiet". The Putinists are throwing what they can cobble together against them.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
Ah China. Whatever you say. They aren't daft. They've played you like a balalaika through all of this.
The global south is behind russia or havent you noticed. The West has lost a lot of respect in the past year.
No we haven’t noticed that.
Because it isn’t true.
Heck, even the Chinese are distancing themselves from the Russians and everyone’s cancelling orders for Russian kit to go with Western.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
We'll have peace when Putin is hanging from a lamp post.
The leaders of the regime are fleeing. Putin denied entry to KZ, came to Valday to pick up Alina and kids, no one knows where he is going next. Medvedev evacuating.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
Ah China. Whatever you say. They aren't daft. They've played you like a balalaika through all of this.
The global south is behind russia or havent you noticed. The West has lost a lot of respect in the past year.
Why do you people always pretend that much of the world being less angered by the war than the West means they are 'behind Russia'. You all know that is not true - here's your global bloody south Obviously we're arguing with a brick wall here, but could you at least get someone to update the talking points, because the same ones just do not work - global south support Russia, i care about lives lost so Ukraine should surrender etc
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
Civil wars don't necessarily have to have the engagement of the ordinary population. Two military structures fighting one another for control of (part of) a country is pretty much the definition of a civil war.
Ordinary Russians will say "meh, the ruler whoever is over the hills and far away"
Far more Russians died in the civil war than in WW1. Mostly of starvation. About 8 million died. Every sane person in Russia wants to avoid civil war.
Yebbut, like I said, this is a spat between military factions, not a civil war. It is an attempted coup played out in the open, on the road and on Twitter. You need to reboot if you think this is or will become a civil war
They are like silly kids thinking this will be a civil war. Brainwashed by western media sadly.
The leaders of the regime are fleeing. Putin denied entry to KZ, came to Valday to pick up Alina and kids, no one knows where he is going next. Medvedev evacuating.
This is looking increasingly terminal.
Shit. Are you trolling theshard or for real? Source/link?
The leaders of the regime are fleeing. Putin denied entry to KZ, came to Valday to pick up Alina and kids, no one knows where he is going next. Medvedev evacuating.
This is looking increasingly terminal.
Fuxsake, if that is true that is dramatic.
And actually worrying because we don’t want that butter Prigozhin in power.
The leaders of the regime are fleeing. Putin denied entry to KZ, came to Valday to pick up Alina and kids, no one knows where he is going next. Medvedev evacuating.
This is looking increasingly terminal.
Like the lettuce and Liz Truss, I would which is going last longer: @Theshard or Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin?
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
You're right! I agree. Speaking of China, I might give them a go in a game of Victoria 2 shortly.
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
We'll have peace when Putin is hanging from a lamp post.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
Civil wars don't necessarily have to have the engagement of the ordinary population. Two military structures fighting one another for control of (part of) a country is pretty much the definition of a civil war.
Ordinary Russians will say "meh, the ruler whoever is over the hills and far away"
Far more Russians died in the civil war than in WW1. Mostly of starvation. About 8 million died. Every sane person in Russia wants to avoid civil war.
Yebbut, like I said, this is a spat between military factions, not a civil war. It is an attempted coup played out in the open, on the road and on Twitter. You need to reboot if you think this is or will become a civil war
It's not a civil war and it probably won't become one, but it may do. It would suit the Kiev government down to the ground, as well as those who salivate at the idea of welcoming Ukraine and Belarus into NATO, if it did.
There hasn't been a coup yet either, although the Daily Telegraph are using that word:
There still seems to be not much going on South of Moscow, as the Wagner forces quietly drive from town to town as on a Saturday morning, or British bank holiday. Everything's fine, nothing to see here folks. Meanwhile trenches are being dug around Moscow and the air seems to be full of private jets leaving to unspecified places, deliberately not entered to radar control.
All the Russian army are stuck in South Ukraine, so no one to stop a drive on Moscow by Wagner.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
Civil wars don't necessarily have to have the engagement of the ordinary population. Two military structures fighting one another for control of (part of) a country is pretty much the definition of a civil war.
Ordinary Russians will say "meh, the ruler whoever is over the hills and far away"
Far more Russians died in the civil war than in WW1. Mostly of starvation. About 8 million died. Every sane person in Russia wants to avoid civil war.
Yebbut, like I said, this is a spat between military factions, not a civil war. It is an attempted coup played out in the open, on the road and on Twitter. You need to reboot if you think this is or will become a civil war
It's not a civil war and it probably won't become one, but it may do. It would suit the Kiev government down to the ground as well as those who salivate at the idea of welcoming Ukraine and Belarus into NATO if it did.
There hasn't been a coup yet either, although the Daily Telegraph are using that word:
Rumours that Medvedev and family have fled Moscow. Even rumours that Putin has fled
Almost certainly baseless rumours without merit. Apart from being highly entertaining
The Ukraine war could be over by Tuesday
At this point I doubt it - I think Putin's machinery of repression is too strong, the Russian people are too apathetic and Prigozhin's forces are too small. Also Prigozhin has spent the last few months insulting the Russian armed forces, so I'm not sure their officer corps will rally to him.
But it's obviously a volatile situation, and difficult to judge from afar.
If Rostov is under Wagner control and they are focusing their attention on Russia and not Ukraine, the Russian army in Ukraine - including Crimea - is in big trouble.
It's really uncertain. Wagner are reportedly allowing Russian helicopters to fly combat missions out of the military airport there, provided that they have a Wagner member on board to ensure they don't attack Wagner units. So that would seem to indicate that Wagner are trying not to hinder the war effort against Ukraine as much as possible. However, the Putinist forces have started hitting military logistics in areas that Wagner control, which will create no end of trouble for Russian units in Ukraine if fighting between Wagner and the Putinists continues for any significant length of time.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
Ah China. Whatever you say. They aren't daft. They've played you like a balalaika through all of this.
The global south is behind russia or havent you noticed. The West has lost a lot of respect in the past year.
There’s certainly some truth in this.
Max Hastings wrote a good piece about the war earlier in the week and made the point how the rest of the world is not on page s the west.
This is a cage fight between military factions, not a civil war - thankfully. The general Russian population is not engaged. They will just have to put up with whichever faction comes out on top. For Ukraine it promises the end of their ordeal to be in sight.
Civil wars don't necessarily have to have the engagement of the ordinary population. Two military structures fighting one another for control of (part of) a country is pretty much the definition of a civil war.
Ordinary Russians will say "meh, the ruler whoever is over the hills and far away"
Far more Russians died in the civil war than in WW1. Mostly of starvation. About 8 million died. Every sane person in Russia wants to avoid civil war.
Yebbut, like I said, this is a spat between military factions, not a civil war. It is an attempted coup played out in the open, on the road and on Twitter. You need to reboot if you think this is or will become a civil war
They are like silly kids thinking this will be a civil war. Brainwashed by western media sadly.
Hope you have your bag packed and ready to go, Mate...
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
There will be plenty of time to feel sympathy for the innocent victims of a Russian civil war in the future. Today, I am delighted that one appears to be beginning, as it could drastically reduce the number of innocent victims of Russian war-mongering in Ukraine.
Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.
Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said
I'd worry more about getting paid than trolling on here. If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
The west is going bankrupt and you are talking about my cheques bouncing. When china dumps us treasurys uk mortgage rates will be back to 15%. Mass bankruptcy for the uk home owners.
Ah China. Whatever you say. They aren't daft. They've played you like a balalaika through all of this.
The global south is behind russia or havent you noticed. The West has lost a lot of respect in the past year.
There’s certainly some truth in this.
Max Hastings wrote a good piece about the war earlier in the week and made the point how the rest of the world is not on page s the west.
Wow, I'm quaking. South Sudan, Venezuela and Bangladesh back Russia. Ukraine is dooooooomed.
Rumours that Medvedev and family have fled Moscow. Even rumours that Putin has fled
Almost certainly baseless rumours without merit. Apart from being highly entertaining
The Ukraine war could be over by Tuesday
At this point I doubt it - I think Putin's machinery of repression is too strong, the Russian people are too apathetic and Prigozhin's forces are too small. Also Prigozhin has spent the last few months insulting the Russian armed forces, so I'm not sure their officer corps will rally to him.
But it's obviously a volatile situation, and difficult to judge from afar.
Too small versus what though?
Russia is a Muscovite Empire, whoever controls Moscow controls Russia.
But if Putin's troops are committed to Ukraine, then who's left to defend Moscow?
And are the forces that are there prepared to fight and die against the battle-hardened Wagner troops?
I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.
A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
C'mon. This is heartless, blase and juvenile.
I have plenty of heart for the victims of Moscow's aggression.
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Seems you are in favour of people been mindlessly killed. Not a good look. We could have had peace in ukraine last year and saved tens of thousands of ukrainian lives.
An early Dilbert cartoon (before Scott Adams went full on Tonto) sums up what's wrong with that attitude.
DOGBERT: I wish humanity would renounce violence. DILBERT: That's a beautiful thought. DOGBERT: Then I could conquer this entire dumb planet with just a butter knife.
Peace won by appeasing an aggressor is no such thing. Because the grim lesson of human history is that the aggressor is never appeased. Deaths aren't avoided, just postponed.
Ever get that nagging doubt? That self-questioning of whether you've backed the wrong horse and really screwed up?
superiority and the ability to discover and destroy enemy troop concentrations and supply depots får behind the frontline. Good Russian reconnaissance makes strategic, and often even tactical, surprise nearly impossible. Russia also have a clear advantage in artillery. Russian air superiority and good reconnaissance makes Ukrainian attacks very hard. Especially since there are enormous amounts of mines everywhere. The UkrAF also seems to lack good Air Defence at the frontline. Russian losses of aircrafts has been very low. When Ukrainian ground units attack they must attack through mine fields since they can't demine them in advance due to Russian fire control. Ukrainian forces can't concentrate in huge numbers since they will be discovered in advance if they do that. The Ukrainians have to rush through the minefields with limited resources and hope that their follow up reinforcements don't get to mauled by Russian air power and artillery. If the Ukrainian forces are strong enough RuAF retreat and their old positions become an artillery trap. After a while the newly captured Ukrainian position is transformed to a moon landscape and Russian forces counterattack. Mostly they succeeds in recapturing lost territory and the Ukrainians withdraw. Sometimes Ukrainian units hold on to newly captured positions and move the frontline one or two kilometers, but to a high price. During these 19 days Ukraine has fought an uphill battle, which seemed doomed from the start. The result is probably clearly higher casualties among the Ukrainians, than by the Russian side. This means that UkrAF becomes weaker in comparison to the RuAF. That's one goal not achieved. If the other goals where successful you could accept normal losses, but that's not the case. Ukrainian territorial gains, both on the Southern and Eastern fronts has been minimal and nothing indicates that will change. That in combination with high losses, especially losses on video, destroys all possibility of a propaganda victory. Now Ukraine must try to hide the failed counteroffensive by denying it's existence and downplaying the losses. Ukraine and its supporters still dominate western media so they might have some success there. But doubts will grow even in the west, that the war is winnable and worth spending huge resources on.
Comments
A U.S. Defense Official along with multiple other Western Officials have told CNN that the ongoing Ukrainian Offensive is, “Not meeting Expectations on any Front,” with Russian Forces beginning to conduct Operations more “Competently” while utilizing Well-Fortified Defense Lines with extensive Minefields alongside the Support of Air Power and Artillery in an extremely Effective manner causing Ukrainian Armor to be bogged down resulting in Significant Losses.
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1671904661677174786?s=20
Who now think Wagner aren't worth talking about?
Comedy efforts.........
I'm trying to play catch up on the other forums I frequent. Too exciting at the moment.
Looks like Russia is about to lose the whole war in a couple more days.
If you signed an agrement with Putin, I suspect you may find the cheques bounce very shortly......
https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/status/1672240429289406464?s=20
For me. 2 armed groups from the same country fighting in that country fits the definition.
There doesn't seem to be much fighting yet, mind.
Observe the LNR number plates like those in Rostov.
https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1672548069584371712
Konstantin Sonin seems to be thinking the same way as me: look for who's not saying anything. He's got Mishustin, Sobyanin, and Kadyrov on his list.
https://twitter.com/k_sonin/status/1672506391527866368
Mishustin is important because if something happens to Putin he's supposed (ahem) to take over as president.
Sonin reckons Prigozhin has "massive support" in the FSB. I'm not sure about that. If it's true, they are going to want this stage to be over FAST before it gets out of their control. I would say it may have been true in the past but isn't true now. Berezovsky was once close to the FSB too.
“Coup attempt could lead to civil war!
in the SNP”
No need for ANY western sources at all, to know that its all over.
Even if Prigozhin loses, what's left of the Russian military will be in such a shambles it won't be able to resist another push by Ukraine.
(Genuine problem actually- come the autumn, we'll have way more than we can eat, but nowhere near enough to make other grape products.)
Which includes plenty of every day Russians who are repressed and sent to the meat grinder in order to support Moscow's regime.
The collapse of Russia as a unitary state would be great news for the world, and great news for ordinary Russians.
Why are you so heartless as to oppose that?
Putin himself has confirmed it on national TV.
And we aren't supposed to be "excited" about it?
Ps. I'm not excited. Fascinated and concerned, yes.
It's like you just got an attaboy from a hardcore Trumpist.
Whatever you say. They aren't daft. They've played you like a balalaika through all of this.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-66007675
"South East Water blames working from home for hosepipe ban
A water company that has imposed a hosepipe ban has blamed people working from home for the shortage.
South East Water, which supplies more than two million homes and businesses in Sussex and Kent, will implement the restriction from Monday.
Chief Executive David Hinton said demand had swelled by about 20% over a short period of time which had put the existing infrastructure under stress.
Customers said the real problem was the company's lack of investment.
A petition has been set up calling for a change of ownership at South East Water."
Every single bit of Ukraine, including Crimea.
A full withdrawal would have saved tens of thousands of Russian lives.
Still extremely significant this has happened even if Prigozhin is arrested by end of day.
Shame Putin declined the chance and doubled down with a full invasion, really.
Outside Stop The West rallies I really don't think the pretend concern about lives lost works as an argument, given Russia are the instigating party - and boastful of how much land they have siezed.
Wagner is making good progress north, but it's not "quiet". The Putinists are throwing what they can cobble together against them.
Because it isn’t true.
Heck, even the Chinese are distancing themselves from the Russians and everyone’s cancelling orders for Russian kit to go with Western.
This is looking increasingly terminal.
Obviously we're arguing with a brick wall here, but could you at least get someone to update the talking points, because the same ones just do not work - global south support Russia, i care about lives lost so Ukraine should surrender etc
And actually worrying because we don’t want that butter Prigozhin in power.
Almost certainly baseless rumours without merit. Apart from being highly entertaining
The Ukraine war could be over by Tuesday
Nothing wrong with this map at all.
There hasn't been a coup yet either, although the Daily Telegraph are using that word:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/24/russia-ukraine-coup-wagner-kremlin-yevgeny-prigozhin/
But it's obviously a volatile situation, and difficult to judge from afar.
Max Hastings wrote a good piece about the war earlier in the week and made the point how the rest of the world is not on page s the west.
Hard to see how things could be much more unstable than that, or what false rumour could exceed the reality.
Russia is a Muscovite Empire, whoever controls Moscow controls Russia.
But if Putin's troops are committed to Ukraine, then who's left to defend Moscow?
And are the forces that are there prepared to fight and die against the battle-hardened Wagner troops?
DOGBERT: I wish humanity would renounce violence.
DILBERT: That's a beautiful thought.
DOGBERT: Then I could conquer this entire dumb planet with just a butter knife.
Peace won by appeasing an aggressor is no such thing. Because the grim lesson of human history is that the aggressor is never appeased. Deaths aren't avoided, just postponed.
Ever get that nagging doubt? That self-questioning of whether you've backed the wrong horse and really screwed up?