Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
I don't think they were ever that out of favour. Remember 10 years ago we had a Conservative and LD coalition government with Cameron as PM and Clegg his deputy.
We had a brief period when Labour flirted with the hard left under Corbyn now ended under the more moderate Starmer and under Boris and Truss the Tories moved to the more populist right post Brexit but even Boris got SDP support to be Oxford Union President and Truss was once a LD and Rishi is on the more moderate wing of the Tories
and Hitler was once a painter...
What a load of tosh you come out with sometimes!
He does. But I believe it is sincere tosh, which is rather endearing in its way.
He lost yesterday, so deserves to be cut some slack today.
We ended up watching a documentary last night on George V, somewhat hyperbolically called the Tyrant King. Generally very popular to the masses but more than a bit of a bully to his family, apparently. It got worse as he got older, the only one who could melt his heart was his granddaughter Lilibeth, Some excellent footage with her learning about duty and discipline at her granddad's knee. What a stunning piece of history she was. I will be missing her again today as we fuss about her slightly awkward son.
Did the documentary mention Dod 5 letting his Russian relatives hang (almost literally) out of self preserving fear? I think that’s a salutary reminder of the way The Firm operates.
For the second time in my lifetime I awake on coronation day and while being ambivalent to the monarchy there are many millions for whom today is historic and very special and I hope they have a wonderful day
Turning to politics the conservatives had a terrible day and it should not have surprised anyone after the debacle of the Johnson/ Truss time, and they need to unite behind Sunak and not listen to the siren voices bemoaning the eviction from office of Johnson
As for labour a good result but seemingly confirmation that Starmer has not yet sealed the deal with
It would be churlish not to recognise the spectacular success of the lib dems and greens which should provide red flag warnings for both the conservatives and labour
I am content with yesterday's result and would suggest that next year's GE , now almost certainly in October, could spin out any result but I would predict a labour government in coalition with the lib dems as a very real possibility and perfectly acceptable to me
I would just like to send my sincere congratulations to @NickPalmer on winning yesterday, and while we are not on the same page politically, he is a credit to politics, is a really nice person, and made a hilarious admission on here some weeks ago that has gone down in PB history
“… most commentators suggesting he may well become PM leading a minority government…”
Can you point me to a few? I think I’ve found one so far.
It was the impression I had after catching up on the news after being involved all day with my son in law in a DIY project
Certainly I did not hear or read an endorsement that Starmer will win a majority
That’s not what you said. You said most commentators are suggesting Sunak could well become PM leading a minority government. Can you point me to a few?
He said 'most commentators are suggesting Starmer could well become PM leading a minority government', not Sunak.
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
You evidently had a very good day, Ms Cyclefree. Good to read.
I’ll have a look at the Post Office story; IMHO it’s high time PC Plod came calling.
I intend to celebrate my birthday today with Eldest Grandson and his wife and baby, Great Grandson One! (Not that there are more gt.grandchildren yet, nor do we expect any more soon!)
The chief executive of the Post Office has apologised for paying himself and other senior officers unapproved bonuses relating to the Horizon IT Inquiry into how more than 700 Post Office workers were wrongly prosecuted for stealing company money.
The Post Office’s annual financial report also states that the payments were signed off by Sir Wyn, which they were not.
After a solicitor to the inquiry, Segun Jide, wrote to the Post Office to seek clarification on this, Mr Read, apologised and said he would return his bonus.
In his letter on behalf of the Post Office addressed to Sir Wyn, Mr Read admitted that it had failed to seek approval on the payments, which he conceded was an “unacceptable error on our part”.
Also known as theft.
Given that the Post Office likes putting people in jail can we expect this bunch to be arrested ?
Of the seven coronations since 1760, one (1911) was held under a Liberal government, and two (1831 and 1838) under the Whigs. Every other one has been held under a Tory government of some form.
If I might be so bold, you were right first time with "completely pointless".
Four out of seven is broadly in line with, or slightly less than, what you might predict given the Tories have broadly been the most successful electoral force over the long term.
It's a fact that's almost startling in its dullness.
Well, several other people picked up on it. Not very accurately.
So perhaps the lack of interestingness made it somehow interesting?
I'm feeling a little tinge of sadness this morning. I know the Coronation should be a day of celebration, but I'm thinking that this day has come about because a woman who diligently served her country for decades died.
So whilst I wish Charles and Camilla all the best luck, part of my mind remembers and honours QEII.
If Charles is half the monarch his mum was, he will do well. And I think he will.
I making the quiche.
That's how much of a royalist I am.
Eating it is the real test of allegiance
I ate it on Thursday. We bought two mini ready made Coronation quiches from the local farm shop. We heated them up and really enjoyed them.
Politics and the coronation? Let's try and link the two.
I think every coronation since Queen Victoria has been held under a Conservative government, without exception.
I think Queen Victoria was under a narrow Whig majority.
Nope. George V’s in 1911, Liberal Govt, Asquith PM. Nice try though.
Ah shit, yeah. Good point.
Technically George VI was under a National government. Conservative led but including National Liberals and National Labour, and some National Independents.
There hasn't been a coronation under a government that's not solidly Conservative since 1936, then.
...and quite right too!
One's heart does bleed for Boris Johnson. Out of office for just the year and missing out on both the Queen's funeral and the Coronation. Not one, but two Prime Ministers shared the limelight for these seminal moments and not one of them was called Johnson.
On such occasions any decent country puts its Johnson away.
I'm feeling a little tinge of sadness this morning. I know the Coronation should be a day of celebration, but I'm thinking that this day has come about because a woman who diligently served her country for decades died.
So whilst I wish Charles and Camilla all the best luck, part of my mind remembers and honours QEII.
If Charles is half the monarch his mum was, he will do well. And I think he will.
I making the quiche.
That's how much of a royalist I am.
I hope you're using lard in the pastry ? And bunging some bacon in for flavour.
That would be to derogate from the instruction that has been passed down to me by my sovereign.
[It is bloody tempting though]
The quiche sounds quite disgusting. I wouldn't bother. Get a nice piece of skirt from your local butcher and I will send you the recipe for cooking it in a way which makes an absolutely delicious meal. You can use the broad beans and spinach as vegetables.
I am doing my duty. Pastry already chilling in the fridge. It will be the first quiche I've done from scratch.
“ The Coronation Chair, also known as St Edward's Chair or King Edward's Chair, is believed to be the oldest piece of furniture in the UK still used for its original purpose”
My nan had a three piece suite, which I am sure was older. Alas no longer with us.
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
You evidently had a very good day, Ms Cyclefree. Good to read.
I’ll have a look at the Post Office story; IMHO it’s high time PC Plod came calling.
I intend to celebrate my birthday today with Eldest Grandson and his wife and baby, Great Grandson One! (Not that there are more gt.grandchildren yet, nor do we expect any more soon!)
The chief executive of the Post Office has apologised for paying himself and other senior officers unapproved bonuses relating to the Horizon IT Inquiry into how more than 700 Post Office workers were wrongly prosecuted for stealing company money.
The Post Office’s annual financial report also states that the payments were signed off by Sir Wyn, which they were not.
After a solicitor to the inquiry, Segun Jide, wrote to the Post Office to seek clarification on this, Mr Read, apologised and said he would return his bonus.
In his letter on behalf of the Post Office addressed to Sir Wyn, Mr Read admitted that it had failed to seek approval on the payments, which he conceded was an “unacceptable error on our part”.
Also known as theft.
Given that the Post Office likes putting people in jail can we expect this bunch to be arrested ?
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
Either way we can be sure the results will confirm the pre-existing beliefs that people already had.
I suspect competence, exasperation and time for a change was a bigger factor than political ideology in almost all cases.
Whilst I’m delighted at the outcome, I am curious about the mechanism. How did people know which direction to jump to unseat the Tory? Not everyone was voting the last time tactical anti Tory voting dominated. It can’t all be folk memory, but yet somehow the perfect pattern emerged. Was it tactical voting websites? It’s not obvious when you think about it.
No it's really easy. You just go on any number of websites from electoral calculus to the bbc, type in your postcode, and see the results from last time.
Although I'm a newbie in Teignbridge it took me 5 seconds to work out that my Labour leanings wouldn't defeat the tories so I voted for 3 LibDems.
I will vote Labour at the GE because my Newton Abbot constituency is more Con-Lab marginal.
@Sean_F claimed yesterday that more LibDem voters will vote tory at the next GE than Labour. Of all the most fantastical posts on pb.com, that leads the way. Almost none of us who voted LibDem on Thursday will be placing our cross in a tory box thanks!
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s that easy. The LibDems have been down and out for a decade. I’m sympathetic to @Sean_F ’s view that the anti Tory tsunami was helped by a sizeable number of previous Tory voters registered a protest. I will be curious to see if they swing back immediately. What is clear to me is that the Tories need to swing away from the right to stand any chance.
The Bedford mayor result shows that the "anti tory vote" was sometimes very inefficient.
The fact is that the most efficient way to defeat Conservatives is for all the "anti tories" to just vote Labour!
But they don't want Labour.. thats the conundrum....
I'm feeling a little tinge of sadness this morning. I know the Coronation should be a day of celebration, but I'm thinking that this day has come about because a woman who diligently served her country for decades died.
So whilst I wish Charles and Camilla all the best luck, part of my mind remembers and honours QEII.
If Charles is half the monarch his mum was, he will do well. And I think he will.
I making the quiche.
That's how much of a royalist I am.
I hope you're using lard in the pastry ? And bunging some bacon in for flavour.
That would be to derogate from the instruction that has been passed down to me by my sovereign.
[It is bloody tempting though]
The quiche sounds quite disgusting. I wouldn't bother. Get a nice piece of skirt from your local butcher and I will send you the recipe for cooking it in a way which makes an absolutely delicious meal. You can use the broad beans and spinach as vegetables.
A regular feature of Cyclefree recipes would be great. Am also interested in your skirt recipe (though I'm the sole carnivore in my household.)
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
Had a thought that the issue of unaffordable housing is now toxic for the Conservatives on both sides.
Naturally those who cannot afford to buy / suffering from insecure renting etc are resentful.
But how many of those with massive amounts of unearned housing equity have become addicted to it and are now living in fear about losing some of it through price falls ?
I visualise the Waitrose Belt home owners now regarding their housing equity as Gollum did his 'preciousss'.
Occurs to me that Aleister Crowley would be revelling in the coronation. He knew the overwhelming psychic importance of apparently pointless ritual. The older the better
It is ritual magic. It is athames and sacred orbs and incomprehensible unguents from Jerusalem
Much of this stretches back to the Anglo-Saxon Kings in the 8th Century. Some of it even has its roots in the Old Testament.
It is truly humbling.
Today is going to be a show the likes of which we've never seen in our lifetimes. Almost every country in the world has sent either their Head of State or a very senior representative. Billions will tune in.
Those who miss it will later regret it.
Yes, you must have ZERO interest in history, religion, politics, music, architecture, pageantry to be determined to miss this. Even if you utterly loathe the monarchy it’s simply fascinating
Sounds like an absolute yawnfest. And the coverage is guaranteed be unwatchably obsequious to anyone with any sense of decency.
This attitude is so middlebrow, humourless and dreary. It’s why Germany and Germans are so relentlessly boring
But, the whole point of this is that you are free to mock, snort, sneer and sullenly snipe. Indeed that’s a crucial part of the spectacle. The guardianista republicans getting all het up. Wouldn’t be the same without ‘em
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
Either way we can be sure the results will confirm the pre-existing beliefs that people already had.
I suspect competence, exasperation and time for a change was a bigger factor than political ideology in almost all cases.
Whilst I’m delighted at the outcome, I am curious about the mechanism. How did people know which direction to jump to unseat the Tory? Not everyone was voting the last time tactical anti Tory voting dominated. It can’t all be folk memory, but yet somehow the perfect pattern emerged. Was it tactical voting websites? It’s not obvious when you think about it.
No it's really easy. You just go on any number of websites from electoral calculus to the bbc, type in your postcode, and see the results from last time.
Although I'm a newbie in Teignbridge it took me 5 seconds to work out that my Labour leanings wouldn't defeat the tories so I voted for 3 LibDems.
I will vote Labour at the GE because my Newton Abbot constituency is more Con-Lab marginal.
@Sean_F claimed yesterday that more LibDem voters will vote tory at the next GE than Labour. Of all the most fantastical posts on pb.com, that leads the way. Almost none of us who voted LibDem on Thursday will be placing our cross in a tory box thanks!
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s that easy. The LibDems have been down and out for a decade. I’m sympathetic to @Sean_F ’s view that the anti Tory tsunami was helped by a sizeable number of previous Tory voters registered a protest. I will be curious to see if they swing back immediately. What is clear to me is that the Tories need to swing away from the right to stand any chance.
The Bedford mayor result shows that the "anti tory vote" was sometimes very inefficient.
The fact is that the most efficient way to defeat Conservatives is for all the "anti tories" to just vote Labour!
But they don't want Labour.. thats the conundrum....
Labour with the biggest vote share suggests one or two do.
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
I note that criminal investigations of some of those involved in the miscarriage of justice are still ongoing. Is anything likely to come of them, or are the police just keeping them open for show ?
I doubt it. The police will wait until the inquiries are over and then it will be too late. I also think it's a bit of a sideshow. There is lots of fault here - many of it, I'm sorry to say, from the lawyers involved. Fundamentally, the state and its organs behaved very badly indeed and are now compounding their original faults with how they are dealing with the inquiries and compensation. They are adding cruelty to injustice.
There is a complete absence of JFDI urgency. Badenoch is the Business Minister responsible for this wretched organisation. This ought to be top of her in-tray and were I her I'd be kicking arses from here to eternity every day until this got resolved.
So many of those whose lives were wrongfully shattered are dead already. It is one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in our history and should be Badenoch's absolute priority.
Agreed. If she wanted really to show herself a potential leader she should be onto this. If she doesn't then she gets nul points from me no matter how often she says she knows what a woman is.
Won't the problem be the likelihood that there is insufficient evidence to prosecute anyone? There is also the danger that you prosecute the wrong people out of 'JFDI' urgency. I would suggest that a better political solution is to properly compensate the victims of this and their families, IE through hundreds of thousands of pounds, and then curtail the powers of the post office to initiate prosecutions, as they have proven themselves to be unworthy of the special powers that they possess.
Short soundbites can be very powerful if they conjure up strong emotive images like 'Food banks' or 'Fuel poverty' but when the Prime Minister is offering just five to see the government through an election failure as severe as last nights they each have to carry a pretty heavy load.
Yesterday as he trundled through them I understood why other than his dreary intonation they were falling so flat.
.... No. 5 "Stop the boats'.
I pictured little grey and orange rubber dinghies where ten or twelve bedraggled people get escorted across the sand by a couple of coastguards. The picture we've all seen on TV My sympathy like most I suspect is with the unfortunate people on the boats. It doesn't conjure up a picture of the Spanish Armada
So what does soundbite No 5 mean in terms of getting Britain out of the mess that we're in right now?
I can well understand why Tories this morning are asking if PM Sunak is anything more than an empty suit
Occurs to me that Aleister Crowley would be revelling in the coronation. He knew the overwhelming psychic importance of apparently pointless ritual. The older the better
It is ritual magic. It is athames and sacred orbs and incomprehensible unguents from Jerusalem
Much of this stretches back to the Anglo-Saxon Kings in the 8th Century. Some of it even has its roots in the Old Testament.
It is truly humbling.
Today is going to be a show the likes of which we've never seen in our lifetimes. Almost every country in the world has sent either their Head of State or a very senior representative. Billions will tune in.
Those who miss it will later regret it.
Yes, you must have ZERO interest in history, religion, politics, music, architecture, pageantry to be determined to miss this. Even if you utterly loathe the monarchy it’s simply fascinating
Sounds like an absolute yawnfest. And the coverage is guaranteed be unwatchably obsequious to anyone with any sense of decency.
This attitude is so middlebrow, humourless and dreary. It’s why Germany and Germans are so relentlessly boring
But, the whole point of this is that you are free to mock, snort, sneer and sullenly snipe. Indeed that’s a crucial part of the spectacle. The guardianista republicans getting all het up. Wouldn’t be the same without ‘em
I see that we hear at last from that leadership rival:
"Cracks in Conservative unity already began on Friday with Rehman Chishti, a former leadership contender, criticising Suella Braverman’s rhetoric on immigration.
“The comments that we had from the home secretary, the rhetoric that she applies to certain faiths and diverse communities, is damaging to our communities and also it damages the community relations. It feeds into the far right,” he told Sky News."
The leadership contest isn't really on until Captain Mordaunt, RNR takes her No.2 rig to Dege & Skinner to be let out two sizes. That's the sign.
Is anyone sufficiently delusional to want to seize the leadership away from Sunak ahead of their general election defeat ? Another change of leader would make that significantly more certain than it is now.
You would have to be utterly delusional, have an unhealthy degree of personal ambition to sit in the big chair, not give a fig what the voters think and be heedless for the effect of your actions on the party that gave you a career.
I can think of one man who fits the bill perfectly.
He would, though, need a majority of Conservative MPs to share his delusion. Not going to happen.
Brighton Council’s new Labour leader responds to Brighton’s Green MP:
Thanks for the congratulations. But your Party has been a disaster for our City. An unmitigated disaster. And they needed to be kindly shown the door. A relief for us all.
I'm feeling a little tinge of sadness this morning. I know the Coronation should be a day of celebration, but I'm thinking that this day has come about because a woman who diligently served her country for decades died.
Doesn't seem like more than a year since we lost her. Sigh.
An ex-gf used to call me Dot Cotton for various reasons I won't go into here...
For the second time in my lifetime I awake on coronation day and while being ambivalent to the monarchy there are many millions for whom today is historic and very special and I hope they have a wonderful day
Turning to politics the conservatives had a terrible day and it should not have surprised anyone after the debacle of the Johnson/ Truss time, and they need to unite behind Sunak and not listen to the siren voices bemoaning the eviction from office of Johnson
As for labour a good result but seemingly confirmation that Starmer has not yet sealed the deal with most commentators suggesting he may well become PM leading a minority government
It would be churlish not to recognise the spectacular success of the lib dems and greens which should provide red flag warnings for both the conservatives and labour
I am content with yesterday's result and would suggest that next year's GE , now almost certainly in October, could spin out any result but I would predict a labour government in coalition with the lib dems as a very real possibility and perfectly acceptable to me
I would just like to send my sincere congratulations to @NickPalmer on winning yesterday, and while we are not on the same page politically, he is a credit to politics, is a really nice person, and made a hilarious admission on here some weeks ago that has gone down in PB history
That's really kind of you - many thanks to all those who've sent similar messages, on and off the forum.
Incidentally, AndyJS asked how many people vote Con/Lab/LD in three-member wards. The answer in my ward was "not many but a few" - I spotted two. Quite a few Lab/Con votes though.
There are more ticket-spliters out there than most folks, including many politicos and pundits realize. Something you can observe at election counts where you can see actual voted ballots.
Quite a few people want to vote for the person, not the party, while others (there's lots of overlap) wish to demonstrate their independence of party (to themselves) by splitting their tickets if possible.
For example, in Seattle quite common to find voters who always vote voted Democratic EXCEPT they'd vote for Republican Kim Wyman for Secretary of State. Because she appeared to be focusing on her job of administering (really monitoring) elections across the state, and was the most-respectable, least-crazy GOP option on the ballot.
The real question for me is why on earth do Americans feel the need for the person who runs elections to be a partisan political figure?
Occurs to me that Aleister Crowley would be revelling in the coronation. He knew the overwhelming psychic importance of apparently pointless ritual. The older the better
It is ritual magic. It is athames and sacred orbs and incomprehensible unguents from Jerusalem
Much of this stretches back to the Anglo-Saxon Kings in the 8th Century. Some of it even has its roots in the Old Testament.
It is truly humbling.
Today is going to be a show the likes of which we've never seen in our lifetimes. Almost every country in the world has sent either their Head of State or a very senior representative. Billions will tune in.
Those who miss it will later regret it.
Yes, you must have ZERO interest in history, religion, politics, music, architecture, pageantry to be determined to miss this. Even if you utterly loathe the monarchy it’s simply fascinating
Moreover there is an equally ancient British tradition of not taking this too seriously. We see that on the cover of Private Eye. The coronation offers something for everyone.
Quite. I’d be unnerved if there WEREN’T people gleefully or spitefully mocking it. That would be a bad sign
The Sex Pistols’ God Save The Queen is as much a part of British Royal History as The 4th Century Holy Merkin of Antioch, briefly shown to the Dukes Royal before it is attached to Queen Camilla
Had a thought that the issue of unaffordable housing is now toxic for the Conservatives on both sides.
Naturally those who cannot afford to buy / suffering from insecure renting etc are resentful.
But how many of those with massive amounts of unearned housing equity have become addicted to it and are now living in fear about losing some of it through price falls ?
I visualise the Waitrose Belt home owners now regarding their housing equity as Gollum did his 'preciousss'.
One of the great mysteries is how the tories came to abandon the policy of endless inflation of the housing bubble. It was a combination of the obsession with regulation after the Grenfell fire, lack of concern about rising interest rates, and disproportionate pandering to NIMBIES in certain constituencies in the south east.
We ended up watching a documentary last night on George V, somewhat hyperbolically called the Tyrant King. Generally very popular to the masses but more than a bit of a bully to his family, apparently. It got worse as he got older, the only one who could melt his heart was his granddaughter Lilibeth, Some excellent footage with her learning about duty and discipline at her granddad's knee. What a stunning piece of history she was. I will be missing her again today as we fuss about her slightly awkward son.
Did the documentary mention Dod 5 letting his Russian relatives hang (almost literally) out of self preserving fear? I think that’s a salutary reminder of the way The Firm operates.
Yes it did. Indeed it was very clear that it was his call not to allow them asylum in the UK, not the government of the day who were ok with it.
It was an interesting call, to say the least. If the Romanovs had survived in exile I wonder how different history might have been.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
I was going to make a tasteless joke about the tarring and feathering of Nicolas Witchell being a highlight of the coronation programme, but fortunately thought better of it.
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
You evidently had a very good day, Ms Cyclefree. Good to read.
I’ll have a look at the Post Office story; IMHO it’s high time PC Plod came calling.
I intend to celebrate my birthday today with Eldest Grandson and his wife and baby, Great Grandson One! (Not that there are more gt.grandchildren yet, nor do we expect any more soon!)
The chief executive of the Post Office has apologised for paying himself and other senior officers unapproved bonuses relating to the Horizon IT Inquiry into how more than 700 Post Office workers were wrongly prosecuted for stealing company money.
The Post Office’s annual financial report also states that the payments were signed off by Sir Wyn, which they were not.
After a solicitor to the inquiry, Segun Jide, wrote to the Post Office to seek clarification on this, Mr Read, apologised and said he would return his bonus.
In his letter on behalf of the Post Office addressed to Sir Wyn, Mr Read admitted that it had failed to seek approval on the payments, which he conceded was an “unacceptable error on our part”.
It's worse than that.
1. Why the hell is anyone getting any bonus at all relating to this? 2. They put a statement in the 2022 Annual Accounts that the bonus scheme and the metrics and their achievement of the metrics - which were related to their work on the inquiry - had been approved and signed off by the Inquiry's judge. 3. This is and was a complete lie. 4. To be put in the accounts, this must have been written and reviewed by the Company Secretary, the GC and signed off and approved by all the directors. 5. None of them took any care to ensure that this statement was accurate. Either they did not check or they did not care or they thought they could get away with it. 6. Bluntly, they seem to be behaving in the way that led to the miscarriage of justice - with scant regard for truth or legal obligations or basic decency.
An apology to the judge is the bare fucking minimum these absolute unprintables should be doing.
Had a thought that the issue of unaffordable housing is now toxic for the Conservatives on both sides.
Naturally those who cannot afford to buy / suffering from insecure renting etc are resentful.
But how many of those with massive amounts of unearned housing equity have become addicted to it and are now living in fear about losing some of it through price falls ?
I visualise the Waitrose Belt home owners now regarding their housing equity as Gollum did his 'preciousss'.
One of the great mysteries is how the tories came to abandon the policy of endless inflation of the housing bubble. It was a combination of the obsession with regulation after the Grenfell fire, lack of concern about rising interest rates, and disproportionate pandering to NIMBIES in certain constituencies in the south east.
I see that we hear at last from that leadership rival:
"Cracks in Conservative unity already began on Friday with Rehman Chishti, a former leadership contender, criticising Suella Braverman’s rhetoric on immigration.
“The comments that we had from the home secretary, the rhetoric that she applies to certain faiths and diverse communities, is damaging to our communities and also it damages the community relations. It feeds into the far right,” he told Sky News."
The leadership contest isn't really on until Captain Mordaunt, RNR takes her No.2 rig to Dege & Skinner to be let out two sizes. That's the sign.
Is anyone sufficiently delusional to want to seize the leadership away from Sunak ahead of their general election defeat ? Another change of leader would make that significantly more certain than it is now.
You would have to be utterly delusional, have an unhealthy degree of personal ambition to sit in the big chair, not give a fig what the voters think and be heedless for the effect of your actions on the party that gave you a career.
I can think of one man who fits the bill perfectly.
He would, though, need a majority of Conservative MPs to share his delusion. Not going to happen.
I think you're probably right, though that probability is lower than I would like.
The bigger problem Sunak has is that Johnson continues to lurk in the shadows and he has allies who continue to spout "it would all be fine if BORIS were still leader" tosh. Sunak has a big enough challenge stopping the boat sinking without Big Dog and his pals rocking it.
Go on Rishi. Starmer showed you the way. Kick your embarrassing predecessor out of the party. Even if you lose in 2024, it would still be a great public service.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
Also I think it got mixed up in too many Bank Holidays, when there are two holidays in May already following on from the Easter break. It would have been more special, say in February.
I see that we hear at last from that leadership rival:
"Cracks in Conservative unity already began on Friday with Rehman Chishti, a former leadership contender, criticising Suella Braverman’s rhetoric on immigration.
“The comments that we had from the home secretary, the rhetoric that she applies to certain faiths and diverse communities, is damaging to our communities and also it damages the community relations. It feeds into the far right,” he told Sky News."
The leadership contest isn't really on until Captain Mordaunt, RNR takes her No.2 rig to Dege & Skinner to be let out two sizes. That's the sign.
Is anyone sufficiently delusional to want to seize the leadership away from Sunak ahead of their general election defeat ? Another change of leader would make that significantly more certain than it is now.
You would have to be utterly delusional, have an unhealthy degree of personal ambition to sit in the big chair, not give a fig what the voters think and be heedless for the effect of your actions on the party that gave you a career.
I can think of one man who fits the bill perfectly.
He would, though, need a majority of Conservative MPs to share his delusion. Not going to happen.
I think you're probably right, though that probability is lower than I would like.
The bigger problem Sunak has is that Johnson continues to lurk in the shadows and he has allies who continue to spout "it would all be fine if BORIS were still leader" tosh. Sunak has a big enough challenge stopping the boat sinking without Big Dog and his pals rocking it.
Go on Rishi. Starmer showed you the way. Kick your embarrassing predecessor out of the party. Even if you lose in 2024, it would still be a great public service.
I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if Big Dog went for it. He has the votes and bears a grudge.
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
I note that criminal investigations of some of those involved in the miscarriage of justice are still ongoing. Is anything likely to come of them, or are the police just keeping them open for show ?
I doubt it. The police will wait until the inquiries are over and then it will be too late. I also think it's a bit of a sideshow. There is lots of fault here - many of it, I'm sorry to say, from the lawyers involved. Fundamentally, the state and its organs behaved very badly indeed and are now compounding their original faults with how they are dealing with the inquiries and compensation. They are adding cruelty to injustice.
There is a complete absence of JFDI urgency. Badenoch is the Business Minister responsible for this wretched organisation. This ought to be top of her in-tray and were I her I'd be kicking arses from here to eternity every day until this got resolved.
So many of those whose lives were wrongfully shattered are dead already. It is one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in our history and should be Badenoch's absolute priority.
Agreed. If she wanted really to show herself a potential leader she should be onto this. If she doesn't then she gets nul points from me no matter how often she says she knows what a woman is.
Won't the problem be the likelihood that there is insufficient evidence to prosecute anyone? There is also the danger that you prosecute the wrong people out of 'JFDI' urgency. I would suggest that a better political solution is to properly compensate the victims of this and their families, IE through hundreds of thousands of pounds, and then curtail the powers of the post office to initiate prosecutions, as they have proven themselves to be unworthy of the special powers that they possess.
My JFDI focus would be entirely on compensation. Not prosecution. As I think my original post made clear.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
Of course religious royalists need loony republicans, it’s indifference they can’t stand. They know in their waters people not caring one way or another is the end of monarchy. On that basis the rozzers nipping peaceful republican protests in the bud seems a mistake, not to mention fairly oppressive.
It's illegal now to lock onto railings and the like and the police have seen straps apparently useful for that, while the group claims they're just straps to hold placards together.
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
Either way we can be sure the results will confirm the pre-existing beliefs that people already had.
I suspect competence, exasperation and time for a change was a bigger factor than political ideology in almost all cases.
Whilst I’m delighted at the outcome, I am curious about the mechanism. How did people know which direction to jump to unseat the Tory? Not everyone was voting the last time tactical anti Tory voting dominated. It can’t all be folk memory, but yet somehow the perfect pattern emerged. Was it tactical voting websites? It’s not obvious when you think about it.
No it's really easy. You just go on any number of websites from electoral calculus to the bbc, type in your postcode, and see the results from last time.
Although I'm a newbie in Teignbridge it took me 5 seconds to work out that my Labour leanings wouldn't defeat the tories so I voted for 3 LibDems.
I will vote Labour at the GE because my Newton Abbot constituency is more Con-Lab marginal.
@Sean_F claimed yesterday that more LibDem voters will vote tory at the next GE than Labour. Of all the most fantastical posts on pb.com, that leads the way. Almost none of us who voted LibDem on Thursday will be placing our cross in a tory box thanks!
Unlike you @Sean_F knows what he's talking about and his analysis is widely respected on here.
You just see your job to get up early to tub-thumb for your team.
I've not seen Sean Fear's post, but if it was as reported it does seem odd. I know LibDems who wouldn't touch Labour with a bargepole, but I don't actually know any who seem remotely tempted to vote Conservative. Indeed, a great many of the results yesterday were IMO at heart a "not the Tories again!" votes, rather than much positive enthusiasm for any of the other parties. It's a pity that politics is in such a negative space, but there is a large majority who are just tired of the Conservatives for now. It happens to us all, and happened to Labour in 2010 in much the same way.
Tactical voting does take work and explanation. I was involved in the count in two wards, one of which had vast amounts of canvassing and the other (for various family and health issues) didn't. The former (mine) had a significant majority of people voting for multi-member LLG candidates. The latter had very little - loads of LibDem and Labour voters just using one of their votes for their preferred party and ignoring the rest. Both won anyway as the Tory vote evaporated, but they were a both a bit lucky.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
Of course religious royalists need loony republicans, it’s indifference they can’t stand. They know in their waters people not caring one way or another is the end of monarchy. On that basis the rozzers nipping peaceful republican protests in the bud seems a mistake, not to mention fairly oppressive.
Quite. Far more concerned here about how I'm going to set up a new laptop though relieved about the rain as it will save a lot of watering of the garden.
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
You evidently had a very good day, Ms Cyclefree. Good to read.
I’ll have a look at the Post Office story; IMHO it’s high time PC Plod came calling.
I intend to celebrate my birthday today with Eldest Grandson and his wife and baby, Great Grandson One! (Not that there are more gt.grandchildren yet, nor do we expect any more soon!)
The chief executive of the Post Office has apologised for paying himself and other senior officers unapproved bonuses relating to the Horizon IT Inquiry into how more than 700 Post Office workers were wrongly prosecuted for stealing company money.
The Post Office’s annual financial report also states that the payments were signed off by Sir Wyn, which they were not.
After a solicitor to the inquiry, Segun Jide, wrote to the Post Office to seek clarification on this, Mr Read, apologised and said he would return his bonus.
In his letter on behalf of the Post Office addressed to Sir Wyn, Mr Read admitted that it had failed to seek approval on the payments, which he conceded was an “unacceptable error on our part”.
It's worse than that.
1. Why the hell is anyone getting any bonus at all relating to this? 2. They put a statement in the 2022 Annual Accounts that the bonus scheme and the metrics and their achievement of the metrics - which were related to their work on the inquiry - had been approved and signed off by the Inquiry's judge. 3. This is and was a complete lie. 4. To be put in the accounts, this must have been written and reviewed by the Company Secretary, the GC and signed off and approved by all the directors. 5. None of them took any care to ensure that this statement was accurate. Either they did not check or they did not care or they thought they could get away with it. 6. Bluntly, they seem to be behaving in the way that led to the miscarriage of justice - with scant regard for truth or legal obligations or basic decency.
An apology to the judge is the bare fucking minimum these absolute unprintables should be doing.
So we have a situation where the 'little people' didn't steal any money but were jailed.
While the bosses did steal money but haven't had any action taken against them.
I was going to make a tasteless joke about the tarring and feathering of Nicolas Witchell being a highlight of the coronation programme, but fortunately thought better of it.
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
You evidently had a very good day, Ms Cyclefree. Good to read.
I’ll have a look at the Post Office story; IMHO it’s high time PC Plod came calling.
I intend to celebrate my birthday today with Eldest Grandson and his wife and baby, Great Grandson One! (Not that there are more gt.grandchildren yet, nor do we expect any more soon!)
The chief executive of the Post Office has apologised for paying himself and other senior officers unapproved bonuses relating to the Horizon IT Inquiry into how more than 700 Post Office workers were wrongly prosecuted for stealing company money.
The Post Office’s annual financial report also states that the payments were signed off by Sir Wyn, which they were not.
After a solicitor to the inquiry, Segun Jide, wrote to the Post Office to seek clarification on this, Mr Read, apologised and said he would return his bonus.
In his letter on behalf of the Post Office addressed to Sir Wyn, Mr Read admitted that it had failed to seek approval on the payments, which he conceded was an “unacceptable error on our part”.
It's worse than that.
1. Why the hell is anyone getting any bonus at all relating to this? 2. They put a statement in the 2022 Annual Accounts that the bonus scheme and the metrics and their achievement of the metrics - which were related to their work on the inquiry - had been approved and signed off by the Inquiry's judge. 3. This is and was a complete lie. 4. To be put in the accounts, this must have been written and reviewed by the Company Secretary, the GC and signed off and approved by all the directors. 5. None of them took any care to ensure that this statement was accurate. Either they did not check or they did not care or they thought they could get away with it. 6. Bluntly, they seem to be behaving in the way that led to the miscarriage of justice - with scant regard for truth or legal obligations or basic decency.
An apology to the judge is the bare fucking minimum these absolute unprintables should be doing.
The whole scandal is atrocious, and has led to many deaths of those affected, including suicides.
I’m not usually an advocate of locking up non-violent criminals, but the egregious behaviour of those at the top of the Post Office deserves nothing less. I hope the enquiry and criminal investigations, lead to serious charges levied against those who made decisions during and after this project.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
Of course religious royalists need loony republicans, it’s indifference they can’t stand. They know in their waters people not caring one way or another is the end of monarchy. On that basis the rozzers nipping peaceful republican protests in the bud seems a mistake, not to mention fairly oppressive.
Nonsense. They should bring back beheading and put their foul treacherous heads on spikes on the southern gate of Tower Bridge BUT IN AN IRONIC WAY
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
I'm not invested in the monarchy but I'll be watching it. I always try and watch massive live tv events unless I have other plans (which I rarely do).
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
You evidently had a very good day, Ms Cyclefree. Good to read.
I’ll have a look at the Post Office story; IMHO it’s high time PC Plod came calling.
I intend to celebrate my birthday today with Eldest Grandson and his wife and baby, Great Grandson One! (Not that there are more gt.grandchildren yet, nor do we expect any more soon!)
The chief executive of the Post Office has apologised for paying himself and other senior officers unapproved bonuses relating to the Horizon IT Inquiry into how more than 700 Post Office workers were wrongly prosecuted for stealing company money.
The Post Office’s annual financial report also states that the payments were signed off by Sir Wyn, which they were not.
After a solicitor to the inquiry, Segun Jide, wrote to the Post Office to seek clarification on this, Mr Read, apologised and said he would return his bonus.
In his letter on behalf of the Post Office addressed to Sir Wyn, Mr Read admitted that it had failed to seek approval on the payments, which he conceded was an “unacceptable error on our part”.
It's worse than that.
1. Why the hell is anyone getting any bonus at all relating to this? 2. They put a statement in the 2022 Annual Accounts that the bonus scheme and the metrics and their achievement of the metrics - which were related to their work on the inquiry - had been approved and signed off by the Inquiry's judge. 3. This is and was a complete lie. 4. To be put in the accounts, this must have been written and reviewed by the Company Secretary, the GC and signed off and approved by all the directors. 5. None of them took any care to ensure that this statement was accurate. Either they did not check or they did not care or they thought they could get away with it. 6. Bluntly, they seem to be behaving in the way that led to the miscarriage of justice - with scant regard for truth or legal obligations or basic decency.
An apology to the judge is the bare fucking minimum these absolute unprintables should be doing.
So we have a situation where the 'little people' didn't steal any money but were jailed.
While the bosses did steal money but haven't had any action taken against them.
Since the first part involves ferrying children round rehearsals for coronation stuff happening tomorrow, we're planning to watch the big event on catch-up this evening.
Just have to avoid overhearing the final result in the meantime.
The weather is quite good here. Yesterday we went to a Coronation Supper in our local village hall. It was very well attended, with great food, lots of wine, good conversation and much hilarity. There was a quiz which I won! Plus a raffle - another bottle of wine won - and lots of money raised for the local Hospice.
This evening we're going to see John Cooper Clarke in Barrow. And tomorrow the next village along is having a music and food festival in the main square, which should be fun.
I have never seen a coronation before and am unlikely to see one again so will watch the key bits in between doing some much needed gardening.
Incidentally, yesterday evening the Post Office buried a bit of pretty bad news about their behaviour in the inquiry which should, if there were any justice in this world, result in the entire current Board - along with their Company Secretary, Head of HR and GC - being sacked, none of them having the decency to do the honourable thing.
You evidently had a very good day, Ms Cyclefree. Good to read.
I’ll have a look at the Post Office story; IMHO it’s high time PC Plod came calling.
I intend to celebrate my birthday today with Eldest Grandson and his wife and baby, Great Grandson One! (Not that there are more gt.grandchildren yet, nor do we expect any more soon!)
The chief executive of the Post Office has apologised for paying himself and other senior officers unapproved bonuses relating to the Horizon IT Inquiry into how more than 700 Post Office workers were wrongly prosecuted for stealing company money.
The Post Office’s annual financial report also states that the payments were signed off by Sir Wyn, which they were not.
After a solicitor to the inquiry, Segun Jide, wrote to the Post Office to seek clarification on this, Mr Read, apologised and said he would return his bonus.
In his letter on behalf of the Post Office addressed to Sir Wyn, Mr Read admitted that it had failed to seek approval on the payments, which he conceded was an “unacceptable error on our part”.
It's worse than that.
1. Why the hell is anyone getting any bonus at all relating to this? 2. They put a statement in the 2022 Annual Accounts that the bonus scheme and the metrics and their achievement of the metrics - which were related to their work on the inquiry - had been approved and signed off by the Inquiry's judge. 3. This is and was a complete lie. 4. To be put in the accounts, this must have been written and reviewed by the Company Secretary, the GC and signed off and approved by all the directors. 5. None of them took any care to ensure that this statement was accurate. Either they did not check or they did not care or they thought they could get away with it. 6. Bluntly, they seem to be behaving in the way that led to the miscarriage of justice - with scant regard for truth or legal obligations or basic decency.
An apology to the judge is the bare fucking minimum these absolute unprintables should be doing.
How can any of that be 'error' ? It would appear to meet the criminal definition of fraud.
Since the first part involves ferrying children round rehearsals for coronation stuff happening tomorrow, we're planning to watch the big event on catch-up this evening.
Just have to avoid overhearing the final result in the meantime.
I was going to make a tasteless joke about the tarring and feathering of Nicolas Witchell being a highlight of the coronation programme, but fortunately thought better of it.
Hasn’t he been entombed with ERII?
While the rest of the nation would take that, I think Her Maj would have baulked at the idea, and who could blame her?
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
Either way we can be sure the results will confirm the pre-existing beliefs that people already had.
I suspect competence, exasperation and time for a change was a bigger factor than political ideology in almost all cases.
Whilst I’m delighted at the outcome, I am curious about the mechanism. How did people know which direction to jump to unseat the Tory? Not everyone was voting the last time tactical anti Tory voting dominated. It can’t all be folk memory, but yet somehow the perfect pattern emerged. Was it tactical voting websites? It’s not obvious when you think about it.
No it's really easy. You just go on any number of websites from electoral calculus to the bbc, type in your postcode, and see the results from last time.
Although I'm a newbie in Teignbridge it took me 5 seconds to work out that my Labour leanings wouldn't defeat the tories so I voted for 3 LibDems.
I will vote Labour at the GE because my Newton Abbot constituency is more Con-Lab marginal.
@Sean_F claimed yesterday that more LibDem voters will vote tory at the next GE than Labour. Of all the most fantastical posts on pb.com, that leads the way. Almost none of us who voted LibDem on Thursday will be placing our cross in a tory box thanks!
Unlike you @Sean_F knows what he's talking about and his analysis is widely respected on here.
You just see your job to get up early to tub-thumb for your team.
I've not seen Sean Fear's post, but if it was as reported it does seem odd. I know LibDems who wouldn't touch Labour with a bargepole, but I don't actually know any who seem remotely tempted to vote Conservative. Indeed, a great many of the results yesterday were IMO at heart a "not the Tories again!" votes, rather than much positive enthusiasm for any of the other parties. It's a pity that politics is in such a negative space, but there is a large majority who are just tired of the Conservatives for now. It happens to us all, and happened to Labour in 2010 in much the same way.
Tactical voting does take work and explanation. I was involved in the count in two wards, one of which had vast amounts of canvassing and the other (for various family and health issues) didn't. The former (mine) had a significant majority of people voting for multi-member LLG candidates. The latter had very little - loads of LibDem and Labour voters just using one of their votes for their preferred party and ignoring the rest. Both won anyway as the Tory vote evaporated, but they were a both a bit lucky.
Chuck the buggers out when they have become too rotten and complacent was the motivation behind yesterday's other contrary moves: Greens out in Brighton, Labour out in Slough, and big swing to the Tories in Leicester though Soulsby maintains his grip.
STV or even AV for local elections would help prevent these unhealthy local one party states. Until then there is tactical voting.
I was going to make a tasteless joke about the tarring and feathering of Nicolas Witchell being a highlight of the coronation programme, but fortunately thought better of it.
Hasn’t he been entombed with ERII?
lol you mean like suttee or some ancient Scythian rite where the monarch’s closest aides were burned and entombed with the royal person?
That would be weirdly brilliant. Possibly a tad controversial
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
Either way we can be sure the results will confirm the pre-existing beliefs that people already had.
I suspect competence, exasperation and time for a change was a bigger factor than political ideology in almost all cases.
Whilst I’m delighted at the outcome, I am curious about the mechanism. How did people know which direction to jump to unseat the Tory? Not everyone was voting the last time tactical anti Tory voting dominated. It can’t all be folk memory, but yet somehow the perfect pattern emerged. Was it tactical voting websites? It’s not obvious when you think about it.
No it's really easy. You just go on any number of websites from electoral calculus to the bbc, type in your postcode, and see the results from last time.
Although I'm a newbie in Teignbridge it took me 5 seconds to work out that my Labour leanings wouldn't defeat the tories so I voted for 3 LibDems.
I will vote Labour at the GE because my Newton Abbot constituency is more Con-Lab marginal.
@Sean_F claimed yesterday that more LibDem voters will vote tory at the next GE than Labour. Of all the most fantastical posts on pb.com, that leads the way. Almost none of us who voted LibDem on Thursday will be placing our cross in a tory box thanks!
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s that easy. The LibDems have been down and out for a decade. I’m sympathetic to @Sean_F ’s view that the anti Tory tsunami was helped by a sizeable number of previous Tory voters registered a protest. I will be curious to see if they swing back immediately. What is clear to me is that the Tories need to swing away from the right to stand any chance.
The Bedford mayor result shows that the "anti tory vote" was sometimes very inefficient.
The fact is that the most efficient way to defeat Conservatives is for all the "anti tories" to just vote Labour!
But they don't want Labour.. thats the conundrum....
Exactly. Which is why I'm not totally convinced by the "Labour doing worse than the national polling suggests is actually great news for Labour because it means everyone is voting tactically against the Conservatives" line.
I'm feeling a little tinge of sadness this morning. I know the Coronation should be a day of celebration, but I'm thinking that this day has come about because a woman who diligently served her country for decades died.
So whilst I wish Charles and Camilla all the best luck, part of my mind remembers and honours QEII.
If Charles is half the monarch his mum was, he will do well. And I think he will.
I making the quiche.
That's how much of a royalist I am.
That sounds a bit er, French to me. Shouldn't we be celebrating the Coronation of a German heritage King with Coronation Currywurst?
Quite a bit of Danish heritage, actually. The Germans followed standard procedure and outsourced their monarchies to immigrants, as well. As much as they could, anyway.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
Of course religious royalists need loony republicans, it’s indifference they can’t stand. They know in their waters people not caring one way or another is the end of monarchy. On that basis the rozzers nipping peaceful republican protests in the bud seems a mistake, not to mention fairly oppressive.
Quite. Far more concerned here about how I'm going to set up a new laptop though relieved about the rain as it will save a lot of watering of the garden.
‘Tis not all indifference at my bit. Interesting random approach to capitals, not quite the King’s English.
I see that we hear at last from that leadership rival:
"Cracks in Conservative unity already began on Friday with Rehman Chishti, a former leadership contender, criticising Suella Braverman’s rhetoric on immigration.
“The comments that we had from the home secretary, the rhetoric that she applies to certain faiths and diverse communities, is damaging to our communities and also it damages the community relations. It feeds into the far right,” he told Sky News."
The leadership contest isn't really on until Captain Mordaunt, RNR takes her No.2 rig to Dege & Skinner to be let out two sizes. That's the sign.
Is anyone sufficiently delusional to want to seize the leadership away from Sunak ahead of their general election defeat ? Another change of leader would make that significantly more certain than it is now.
Boris would have been PM again if he'd wanted - he had the votes to take it to the members. So he didn't want to come back at the time Rishi took over.
Does he now? Only if he thinks he can win in a GE.
I suspect he does not, so he is content for people to pile on to Rishi and pin the loss on him, without actually having a challenge. It's about ensuring the blame goes the right way.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
Of course religious royalists need loony republicans, it’s indifference they can’t stand. They know in their waters people not caring one way or another is the end of monarchy. On that basis the rozzers nipping peaceful republican protests in the bud seems a mistake, not to mention fairly oppressive.
Quite. Far more concerned here about how I'm going to set up a new laptop though relieved about the rain as it will save a lot of watering of the garden.
‘Tis not all indifference at my bit. Interesting random approach to capitals, not quite the King’s English.
Ah, all we need is Murdo Fraser to go on about the KIng's Eleven and that's a bit of Coronation bingo ticked off. But, hmm, is that the same face painter as Glasgow Rangers had before Sevco, I wonder?!
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
Either way we can be sure the results will confirm the pre-existing beliefs that people already had.
I suspect competence, exasperation and time for a change was a bigger factor than political ideology in almost all cases.
Whilst I’m delighted at the outcome, I am curious about the mechanism. How did people know which direction to jump to unseat the Tory? Not everyone was voting the last time tactical anti Tory voting dominated. It can’t all be folk memory, but yet somehow the perfect pattern emerged. Was it tactical voting websites? It’s not obvious when you think about it.
No it's really easy. You just go on any number of websites from electoral calculus to the bbc, type in your postcode, and see the results from last time.
Although I'm a newbie in Teignbridge it took me 5 seconds to work out that my Labour leanings wouldn't defeat the tories so I voted for 3 LibDems.
I will vote Labour at the GE because my Newton Abbot constituency is more Con-Lab marginal.
@Sean_F claimed yesterday that more LibDem voters will vote tory at the next GE than Labour. Of all the most fantastical posts on pb.com, that leads the way. Almost none of us who voted LibDem on Thursday will be placing our cross in a tory box thanks!
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s that easy.
It really is. The local election results in England have the anti-tory Lab-LibDem vote at 55%. That's identical to the last 3 national opinion polls, it's just that at national level Labour are polling c. high 40's and the LibDems single figures.
People like me who are naturally Labour voted LibDem at local level because they had more chance of winning, which they did. It really, really, isn't rocket science.
Even if you don't believe this, the other way of looking at it is the Cons vote share. Apart from the occasional scrape to 30%, they are polling in the high 20's (the last 3 national polls have been 29, 29, 27). That's the same as the locals which was 29% on the NEV.
Would the Conservatives have held on to more councillors if Labour had got an NEV in the high forties?
Absolutely not. Suppose Labour polled 46% and the Lib Dems 10%, Conservative losses would have been considerably heavier.
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
Either way we can be sure the results will confirm the pre-existing beliefs that people already had.
I suspect competence, exasperation and time for a change was a bigger factor than political ideology in almost all cases.
Whilst I’m delighted at the outcome, I am curious about the mechanism. How did people know which direction to jump to unseat the Tory? Not everyone was voting the last time tactical anti Tory voting dominated. It can’t all be folk memory, but yet somehow the perfect pattern emerged. Was it tactical voting websites? It’s not obvious when you think about it.
No it's really easy. You just go on any number of websites from electoral calculus to the bbc, type in your postcode, and see the results from last time.
Although I'm a newbie in Teignbridge it took me 5 seconds to work out that my Labour leanings wouldn't defeat the tories so I voted for 3 LibDems.
I will vote Labour at the GE because my Newton Abbot constituency is more Con-Lab marginal.
@Sean_F claimed yesterday that more LibDem voters will vote tory at the next GE than Labour. Of all the most fantastical posts on pb.com, that leads the way. Almost none of us who voted LibDem on Thursday will be placing our cross in a tory box thanks!
Honestly, I’m not sure it’s that easy.
It really is. The local election results in England have the anti-tory Lab-LibDem vote at 55%. That's identical to the last 3 national opinion polls, it's just that at national level Labour are polling c. high 40's and the LibDems single figures.
People like me who are naturally Labour voted LibDem at local level because they had more chance of winning, which they did. It really, really, isn't rocket science.
Even if you don't believe this, the other way of looking at it is the Cons vote share. Apart from the occasional scrape to 30%, they are polling in the high 20's (the last 3 national polls have been 29, 29, 27). That's the same as the locals which was 29% on the NEV.
Would the Conservatives have held on to more councillors if Labour had got an NEV in the high forties?
Absolutely not. Suppose Labour polled 46% and the Lib Dems 10%, Conservative losses would have been considerably heavier.
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
I don't think they were ever that out of favour. Remember 10 years ago we had a Conservative and LD coalition government with Cameron as PM and Clegg his deputy.
We had a brief period when Labour flirted with the hard left under Corbyn now ended under the more moderate Starmer and under Boris and Truss the Tories moved to the more populist right post Brexit but even Boris got SDP support to be Oxford Union President and Truss was once a LD and Rishi is on the more moderate wing of the Tories
and Hitler was once a painter...
What a load of tosh you come out with sometimes!
He does. But I believe it is sincere tosh, which is rather endearing in its way.
He lost yesterday, so deserves to be cut some slack today.
I am genuinely sorry to hear that he lost his seat. Onwards and upwards for next time.
I doubt there is a harder working, more dedicated elected official anywhere in the country.
Had a thought that the issue of unaffordable housing is now toxic for the Conservatives on both sides.
Naturally those who cannot afford to buy / suffering from insecure renting etc are resentful.
But how many of those with massive amounts of unearned housing equity have become addicted to it and are now living in fear about losing some of it through price falls ?
I visualise the Waitrose Belt home owners now regarding their housing equity as Gollum did his 'preciousss'.
One of the great mysteries is how the tories came to abandon the policy of endless inflation of the housing bubble. It was a combination of the obsession with regulation after the Grenfell fire, lack of concern about rising interest rates, and disproportionate pandering to NIMBIES in certain constituencies in the south east.
They have abandoned it? Have I missed something?
It isn't an exaggeration to say that the current government are trying to destroy the housebuilding and construction industry. House price stagnation and falls is occurring right now and build costs continue to escalate so projects are just dying. The volume of planning applications going through the system is sharply falling. We are in a lag at the moment whilst the stuff that was in the system keeps working its way through it but - unless something major changes on the policy making front - I think there is a high chance that, in about 6 months time, we will see the start of a severe recession in the housebuilding/development industry.
Have to say that the R&T and Curtice modelling feel odd to me. While they’ve probably got the Tories right, the share to Lib Dems and others seems quite overstated.
I get that they’re models - and actually the seat count for the LDs might be closer than the share prediction - but they just feel oddly dissonant to me. So many places - there are notable exceptions, but by far the rule - have seen the Tories get utterly smashed, and crucially the SNP are doing their level best to become as unappealing as possible.
Quite obviously the LDs and Greens do well at Locals compared to nationally, and certainly the LDs are strongly back in England now.
In a GE though I think the LD and Green votes will be down by half, with Labour getting most of the benefit, Labour being unobjectional if uninspiring.
Politics is interesting again, but confusing from an ideological point of view. .
The LDs did very well, but beyond a bit of residual pro EU vibes I have absolutely no idea what they stand for. There is nothing there beyond being anti Tory.
Labour have been rowing back from the Corbyn years, but are yet to galvanise their new vision. Nevertheless they have won convincingly.
The Tories seem stuck between waging a vicious culture war and the last vestiges compassionate conservatism, whilst trying to gather some remnants of competence from the ashes of Truss/Johnson. Total failure.
Even the Greens seem halfway between the radical far left and cosy middle class feel good environmentalism.
The Greens in Brighton was sub optimal I feel sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when they were booted out.
Sussex as microcosm is especially interesting .
The big towns swung to Labour, a few miles away the more rural bit swung heavily to the Lib Dems. Just a few miles apart you see very different patterns.
The folk memory of who is the challenger seems to be decisive, but that is such an ephemeral thing.
Either way it seems centrism, social democracy and liberalism are firmly back in fashion after an age of extremes. The Tories need to remember their more moderate wing.
Either way we can be sure the results will confirm the pre-existing beliefs that people already had.
I suspect competence, exasperation and time for a change was a bigger factor than political ideology in almost all cases.
Whilst I’m delighted at the outcome, I am curious about the mechanism. How did people know which direction to jump to unseat the Tory? Not everyone was voting the last time tactical anti Tory voting dominated. It can’t all be folk memory, but yet somehow the perfect pattern emerged. Was it tactical voting websites? It’s not obvious when you think about it.
No it's really easy. You just go on any number of websites from electoral calculus to the bbc, type in your postcode, and see the results from last time.
Although I'm a newbie in Teignbridge it took me 5 seconds to work out that my Labour leanings wouldn't defeat the tories so I voted for 3 LibDems.
I will vote Labour at the GE because my Newton Abbot constituency is more Con-Lab marginal.
@Sean_F claimed yesterday that more LibDem voters will vote tory at the next GE than Labour. Of all the most fantastical posts on pb.com, that leads the way. Almost none of us who voted LibDem on Thursday will be placing our cross in a tory box thanks!
Unlike you @Sean_F knows what he's talking about and his analysis is widely respected on here.
You just see your job to get up early to tub-thumb for your team.
I've not seen Sean Fear's post, but if it was as reported it does seem odd. I know LibDems who wouldn't touch Labour with a bargepole, but I don't actually know any who seem remotely tempted to vote Conservative. Indeed, a great many of the results yesterday were IMO at heart a "not the Tories again!" votes, rather than much positive enthusiasm for any of the other parties. It's a pity that politics is in such a negative space, but there is a large majority who are just tired of the Conservatives for now. It happens to us all, and happened to Labour in 2010 in much the same way.
Tactical voting does take work and explanation. I was involved in the count in two wards, one of which had vast amounts of canvassing and the other (for various family and health issues) didn't. The former (mine) had a significant majority of people voting for multi-member LLG candidates. The latter had very little - loads of LibDem and Labour voters just using one of their votes for their preferred party and ignoring the rest. Both won anyway as the Tory vote evaporated, but they were a both a bit lucky.
Tactical voting is far less complicated in a general election, I'd argue.
I was going to make a tasteless joke about the tarring and feathering of Nicolas Witchell being a highlight of the coronation programme, but fortunately thought better of it.
Hasn’t he been entombed with ERII?
lol you mean like suttee or some ancient Scythian rite where the monarch’s closest aides were burned and entombed with the royal person?
That would be weirdly brilliant. Possibly a tad controversial
Vikings too. Though this is much mor einteresting.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
Everyone will whinge about it (uncool, want to seem independent, self-respect, not deferential etc etc) and still watch it today, because it's an amazing and unique spectacle and not really about the things they caricature it as anyway.
TBH they aren't whingeing about the coronation either. I suspect people will watch if they are not doing something else. But it doesn't seem to have caught people's imaginations. There was more interest in the Queen's passing, I think, but that might be in part because she died in Scotland and there were various ceremonies in Scotland.
Of course religious royalists need loony republicans, it’s indifference they can’t stand. They know in their waters people not caring one way or another is the end of monarchy. On that basis the rozzers nipping peaceful republican protests in the bud seems a mistake, not to mention fairly oppressive.
Quite. Far more concerned here about how I'm going to set up a new laptop though relieved about the rain as it will save a lot of watering of the garden.
‘Tis not all indifference at my bit. Interesting random approach to capitals, not quite the King’s English.
Bloody hell, I thought Lana wolf (sic) was some pub singer, but no! I’m beginning to think this may be satirical.
It is not clear whether the Telegraph's headline-writer bothered to read the story which is more balanced and includes: Huw Merriman, a transport minister, said constituents were complaining to him about “older news about former prime ministers”.
Not entirely untrue in the detail of the article. High taxes (that keep going up) were the reason I almost stayed at home and definitely the reason I didn't campaign or donate.
It was only the prospect of crowing Lefties, which I knew I wouldn't be able to bear well if I hadn't voted, that got me out there and the fact that my existing Councillor is quite good.
That has nothing to do with the leadership. Boris would be even worse and even shitter in delivery. Essentially, Sunak has to give something to vote for and steady administration (whilst essential) isn't on its own going to be enough.
I’m not sure Woke and Boats are ‘it’ either. The former doesn’t really move the dial, and the latter is visibly failing.
Anti-Woke only bothers those who are quite Woke - it's the one thing I think the Tories are doing quite well on, and pushing back on. .
Of course you do. And you exemplify why your party took a hammering yesterday and why it is going to take a hammering at the GE.
The Tories didn't do badly yesterday for that reason.
I am going to finish writing my article on the Post Office while watching the Coronation.
Husband is going for a walk to Eskdale Mill. Then Mancunian humour later.
It's all go here, you know.
Yes, I'm off for a walk too. While the coronation is of some historical interest, and I wish well to those involved, or excited to watch it, I have to confess I find watching these things excruciatingly boring.
Even the Handel. (Which is an astonishing piece of music the first few times you hear it, but does not improve with repetition.)
Had a thought that the issue of unaffordable housing is now toxic for the Conservatives on both sides.
Naturally those who cannot afford to buy / suffering from insecure renting etc are resentful.
But how many of those with massive amounts of unearned housing equity have become addicted to it and are now living in fear about losing some of it through price falls ?
I visualise the Waitrose Belt home owners now regarding their housing equity as Gollum did his 'preciousss'.
One of the great mysteries is how the tories came to abandon the policy of endless inflation of the housing bubble. It was a combination of the obsession with regulation after the Grenfell fire, lack of concern about rising interest rates, and disproportionate pandering to NIMBIES in certain constituencies in the south east.
They have abandoned it? Have I missed something?
It isn't an exaggeration to say that the current government are trying to destroy the housebuilding and construction industry. House price stagnation and falls is occurring right now and build costs continue to escalate so projects are just dying. The volume of planning applications going through the system is sharply falling. We are in a lag at the moment whilst the stuff that was in the system keeps working its way through it but - unless something major changes on the policy making front - I think there is a high chance that, in about 6 months time, we will see the start of a severe recession in the housebuilding/development industry.
Thanks. So the supply dries up? Won't do anything to reduce prices, though whether this is enough to stop a collapse in prices I dunno.
Comments
And Rishi Sunak from any forthcoming Johnsonian manouvres.
Given that the Post Office likes putting people in jail can we expect this bunch to be arrested ?
So perhaps the lack of interestingness made it somehow interesting?
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/mayor-of-london-boris-johnson-gets-stuck-on-a-zip-line-news-photo/1242321311
I will report back later on how it tastes!
“ The Coronation Chair, also known as St Edward's Chair or King Edward's Chair, is believed to be the oldest piece of furniture in the UK still used for its original purpose”
My nan had a three piece suite, which I am sure was older. Alas no longer with us.
I detect near zero interest in it here in Scotland. Only one person in my acquaintance has mentioned it - they will watch.
Nevertheless a coronation is for most people a once in a lifetime or a twice in a lifetime event, so interesting for that reason alone.
https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1654745407308591108?s=46&t=rw5lNVUgmRPVyKpxfV_pPQ
Am also interested in your skirt recipe (though I'm the sole carnivore in my household.)
Naturally those who cannot afford to buy / suffering from insecure renting etc are resentful.
But how many of those with massive amounts of unearned housing equity have become addicted to it and are now living in fear about losing some of it through price falls ?
I visualise the Waitrose Belt home owners now regarding their housing equity as Gollum did his 'preciousss'.
But, the whole point of this is that you are free to
mock, snort, sneer and sullenly snipe. Indeed that’s a crucial part of the spectacle. The guardianista republicans getting all het up. Wouldn’t be the same without ‘em
There is also the danger that you prosecute the wrong people out of 'JFDI' urgency.
I would suggest that a better political solution is to properly compensate the victims of this and their families, IE through hundreds of thousands of pounds, and then curtail the powers of the post office to initiate prosecutions, as they have proven themselves to be unworthy of the special powers that they possess.
Short soundbites can be very powerful if they conjure up strong emotive images like 'Food banks' or 'Fuel poverty' but when the Prime Minister is offering just five to see the government through an election failure as severe as last nights they each have to carry a pretty heavy load.
Yesterday as he trundled through them I understood why other than his dreary intonation they were falling so flat.
.... No. 5 "Stop the boats'.
I pictured little grey and orange rubber dinghies where ten or twelve bedraggled people get escorted across the sand by a couple of coastguards. The picture we've all seen on TV
My sympathy like most I suspect is with the unfortunate people on the boats. It doesn't conjure up a picture of the Spanish Armada
So what does soundbite No 5 mean in terms of getting Britain out of the mess that we're in right now?
I can well understand why Tories this morning are asking if PM Sunak is anything more than an empty suit
Not going to happen.
The Sex Pistols’ God Save The Queen is as much a part of British Royal History as The 4th Century Holy Merkin of Antioch, briefly shown to the Dukes Royal before it is attached to Queen Camilla
It was an interesting call, to say the least. If the Romanovs had survived in exile I wonder how different history might have been.
(Much better than that over-rated LNER rubbish).
1. Why the hell is anyone getting any bonus at all relating to this?
2. They put a statement in the 2022 Annual Accounts that the bonus scheme and the metrics and their achievement of the metrics - which were related to their work on the inquiry - had been approved and signed off by the Inquiry's judge.
3. This is and was a complete lie.
4. To be put in the accounts, this must have been written and reviewed by the Company Secretary, the GC and signed off and approved by all the directors.
5. None of them took any care to ensure that this statement was accurate. Either they did not check or they did not care or they thought they could get away with it.
6. Bluntly, they seem to be behaving in the way that led to the miscarriage of justice - with scant regard for truth or legal obligations or basic decency.
An apology to the judge is the bare fucking minimum these absolute unprintables should be doing.
The bigger problem Sunak has is that Johnson continues to lurk in the shadows and he has allies who continue to spout "it would all be fine if BORIS were still leader" tosh. Sunak has a big enough challenge stopping the boat sinking without Big Dog and his pals rocking it.
Go on Rishi. Starmer showed you the way. Kick your embarrassing predecessor out of the party. Even if you lose in 2024, it would still be a great public service.
It's illegal now to lock onto railings and the like and the police have seen straps apparently useful for that, while the group claims they're just straps to hold placards together.
Tactical voting does take work and explanation. I was involved in the count in two wards, one of which had vast amounts of canvassing and the other (for various family and health issues) didn't. The former (mine) had a significant majority of people voting for multi-member LLG candidates. The latter had very little - loads of LibDem and Labour voters just using one of their votes for their preferred party and ignoring the rest. Both won anyway as the Tory vote evaporated, but they were a both a bit lucky.
While the bosses did steal money but haven't had any action taken against them.
I’m not usually an advocate of locking up non-violent criminals, but the egregious behaviour of those at the top of the Post Office deserves nothing less. I hope the enquiry and criminal investigations, lead to serious charges levied against those who made decisions during and after this project.
It is an absolute fucking disgrace.
Since the first part involves ferrying children round rehearsals for coronation stuff happening tomorrow, we're planning to watch the big event on catch-up this evening.
Just have to avoid overhearing the final result in the meantime.
It would appear to meet the criminal definition of fraud.
Do not miss that moment.
Selfless devotion to her country has limits!
STV or even AV for local elections would help prevent these unhealthy local one party states. Until then there is tactical voting.
That would be weirdly brilliant. Possibly a tad controversial
OOOH
Not to mention the Greek connection
Does he now? Only if he thinks he can win in a GE.
I suspect he does not, so he is content for people to pile on to Rishi and pin the loss on him, without actually having a challenge. It's about ensuring the blame goes the right way.
Husband is going for a walk to Eskdale Mill. Then Mancunian humour later.
It's all go here, you know.
SeanT gives the impression that it's all he has in his life.
I doubt there is a harder working, more dedicated elected official anywhere in the country.
https://sciencenorway.no/archaeology-history-ships/new-video-footage-shows-what-could-be-the-oldest-known-shipwreck-at-the-bottom-of-norways-largest-lake/2194021
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/tv/10467192/lana-wolf-slaves-adults-only-dog/
While the coronation is of some historical interest, and I wish well to those involved, or excited to watch it, I have to confess I find watching these things excruciatingly boring.
Even the Handel. (Which is an astonishing piece of music the first few times you hear it, but does not improve with repetition.)
To be fair he might have drunk and tupped himself to death, given his apparent lifestyle
Nick’s anecdote was charming partly coz it was delivered so laconically - like he was describing a nice fish supper - and was so insanely unexpected
Starting up afresh...
There always seem to be some people necking pints at the Spoons on Leeds station when I walk past at 8:15.