Early signs are that the Conservative Party HAS NOT LEARNED A FUCKING THING from the Truss debacle.
"Hey, I'm a Tory MP - and I could make a great PM!"
No, you idiot, you couldn't. Sit down and STFU.
Rishi and Penny should jointly make it clear that any MPs who stand and don't get enough votes to go into the next round will not be asked to be a member of their new Cabinet, whichever wins. Making a lot of noise just to get a place round the Cabinet table will fail, spectacularly.
Do we know when Brady will be announcing the rules for the contest?
Hopefully not until a delegation of sensible Tory MPs* have beaten him around the head with inflated puffer fish for a few hours.
Having been ejected from the office of PM in the past 12 months, is Boris even eligible to stand again?
"Yes....ow....."
"Is Boris even eligible to stand again?"
"Yes....ow....."
"Is Boris even eligible to stand again?"
"No....ow.....what was that for?"
"Just checking you got the message...."
*I appreciate this may only require about four puffer fish.
Early signs are that the Conservative Party HAS NOT LEARNED A FUCKING THING from the Truss debacle.
"Hey, I'm a Tory MP - and I could make a great PM!"
No, you idiot, you couldn't. Sit down and STFU.
Rishi and Penny should jointly make it clear that any MPs who stand and don't get enough votes to go into the next round will not be asked to be a member of their new Cabinet, whichever wins. Making a lot of noise just to get a place round the Cabinet table will fail, spectacularly.
The next leader should be chosen by a committee with an odd number of members to ensure a result. 3 on the committee would be too many. Basically, we want whoever Hunt is happiest to work with. That's it.
Someone has compromised. Causing death by Careless Driving is the cotton-batting offence that that dangerous drivers' lawyers negotiate down to to try and avoid a prison sentence.
The classic penalty for anyone who smashes a cyclist off the road and kills them. Usually a ridiculously short driving ban.
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
I wonder if Sir Keir is regretting the fracking thing, which finally did for Liz. With her in place he was guaranteed a landslide, but with Boris... if he can summon up some of the old magic...
Off thread - this board has been kind enough to indulge me over recent months in my rantings about the 11+, which my middle daughter is going through: we've just had the results, and although she just missed out for our local grammar school, she has passed the pass mark for our second closest (which is still just over a mile away and which we are within catchment for). So all being well she will be going there. She has worked uncomplainingly and astonishingly hard to achieve this (despite the handicap of dyslexia) and I am so bloody proud of her.
My daughters failed the 11+ and went to Ashton. One of them now has a PhD.
My brother failed his 11+ and was sent to the Secondary Modern. Fortunately it went Comprehensive shortly after, so he got into LSE and has just retired from a glittering career at the top of his field.
I consequently don't think that the 11+ is a very good predictor of academic ability.
When the **** has Boris ever done anything in the "national interest"?
When he beat Corbyn.
I genuinely think Corbyn, bad as he was, would have done the country a favour if he had won in 2019. We're talking relative scales of disaster.
Nope. Sure, the last six months wouldn't have been as bad, but the two years before that would have been much worse.
That's what I thought at the time despite a very low opinion of Johnson. But at least the Labour Party was still largely sensible and would probably have acted as restraint on the crazier Corbyn proposals. No such sense in the Conservative Party over the same period. Over the whole period I suspect Corbyn world have been a bit less bad and quite likely replaced in short order by someone better.
Early signs are that the Conservative Party HAS NOT LEARNED A FUCKING THING from the Truss debacle.
"Hey, I'm a Tory MP - and I could make a great PM!"
No, you idiot, you couldn't. Sit down and STFU.
Rishi and Penny should jointly make it clear that any MPs who stand and don't get enough votes to go into the next round will not be asked to be a member of their new Cabinet, whichever wins. Making a lot of noise just to get a place round the Cabinet table will fail, spectacularly.
It will be a Johnson v. a Sunak or Mordaunt head to head. Where does that leave us?
I for one have a sick pit in my stomach. He's coming back. He will be in Kyiv every other week and when Putin falls he claims the victory, and wins GE24. The snouts remain at the trough.
Off thread - this board has been kind enough to indulge me over recent months in my rantings about the 11+, which my middle daughter is going through: we've just had the results, and although she just missed out for our local grammar school, she has passed the pass mark for our second closest (which is still just over a mile away and which we are within catchment for). So all being well she will be going there. She has worked uncomplainingly and astonishingly hard to achieve this (despite the handicap of dyslexia) and I am so bloody proud of her.
My daughters failed the 11+ and went to Ashton. One of them now has a PhD.
My brother failed his 11+ and was sent to the Secondary Modern. Fortunately it went Comprehensive shortly after, so he got into LSE and has just retired from a glittering career at the top of his field.
I consequently don't think that the 11+ is a very good predictor of academic ability.
It's very good for prole- and inferior oik-excluding, though, so the Hyacinth Bouquets of this world and of PB are very fond of grammar schools.
Early signs are that the Conservative Party HAS NOT LEARNED A FUCKING THING from the Truss debacle.
"Hey, I'm a Tory MP - and I could make a great PM!"
No, you idiot, you couldn't. Sit down and STFU.
Rishi and Penny should jointly make it clear that any MPs who stand and don't get enough votes to go into the next round will not be asked to be a member of their new Cabinet, whichever wins. Making a lot of noise just to get a place round the Cabinet table will fail, spectacularly.
Equally staggered (but sort of not) by this. Honestly. They're like junkies; can't bloody help themselves.
At this rate, Liz Truss will throw her hat in the ring again.
"I was really popular with members this summer...."
Re. the potential cable-cutting. It can be argued that one of the first acts Britain committed during World War One won the war (eventually). Within the first few weeks of the war, we cut all but one of Germany's marine cables (and we had access to that one).
This severely hampered German international communications throughout the war, and aided our signals intelligence. Then in 1917 it allowed the infamous Zimmerman Telegram to be intercepted, which helped bring the US into the war.
Cutting cables nowadays would not have the same effect; but it may prove absolutely awful for trade.
Good for Elon Musk though...
What state is OneWeb in at the moment?
Early operational testing - service has gaps until the last satellites are launched.
Interestingly, the missing satellites (stuck in Russia) will be launched by SpaceX. Yes, they are being launched by their direct competitor. Given the way the launch business usually works, finding a ride would have taken multiple years. Only SpaceX has the capability to do large launches at a couple of months notice.
Reasons for the SpaceX being helpful include
- having a competitor is actually good for them. Accusations of monopoly. - Launching a direct rivals service protects them against charges of being anti-competitive.. using the SpaceX price advantage only for Starlink could be viewed that way. This contract makes SpaceX legally fireproof on such charges. - The space industry have a history of helping rivals out. You never know when it is your turn - As a result of launch contract various mutual lawsuits have gone away.
On the other hand, they've been very uncompetitive with their rideshare program, and killed off the market leaders (who created the market in the first place).
Also, do we really want comms in the hands of Musk? For years I compared him with Brunel, positively. I was wrong. Musk is not the modern-day Brunel.
He is the modern-day Henry Ford. Except worse...
Merely offering a cheaper product isn’t anti-competitive. The marginal cost of F9 launches is said to be in the order of $15 million now. Maybe less.
As to a monopoly on LEO comms - he’s helped out OneWeb, allowing them to get in service something like on time.
“I’m very proud of the Prime Minister. She tried to provide choice for this country - the country’s just not ready for it yet” says Chief of Staff Mark Fulbrook at a swiftly-called Downing Street all-staff meeting. https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1583097855564165120
Wonder IF Mark Fullbrook is ready for the US Department of Justice and FBI?
Somehow doubt it. But suspect they are ready for him.
BTW, what are the odds that Fullbrook will be the guru of the next Tory GE campaign, which is/was he apparently had with his soon-to-be exPM?
If Boris is serious then Penny and Rishi need to come as a unity combo.
No, they need to get about 130 guaranteed backers each and engineer it so they both make the final 2.
If he gets into the membership vote he will win.
But there won't be a membership vote.
Johnson just needs to get into the final 2. If it goes to the members, he’s back. If it doesn’t go to the member, there will be ructions, with Johnson as the King over the water, and a mutiny among the membership.
No way I see it going to the members. If they do that the argument for a GE becomes irresistible.
Early signs are that the Conservative Party HAS NOT LEARNED A FUCKING THING from the Truss debacle.
"Hey, I'm a Tory MP - and I could make a great PM!"
No, you idiot, you couldn't. Sit down and STFU.
Rishi and Penny should jointly make it clear that any MPs who stand and don't get enough votes to go into the next round will not be asked to be a member of their new Cabinet, whichever wins. Making a lot of noise just to get a place round the Cabinet table will fail, spectacularly.
I wonder if Sir Keir is regretting the fracking thing, which finally did for Liz. With her in place he was guaranteed a landslide, but with Boris... if he can summon up some of the old magic...
Yes. It looks now like a huge blunder. Though she wouldn't have got her finance bill without massive trouble either I think.
“I’m very proud of the Prime Minister. She tried to provide choice for this country - the country’s just not ready for it yet” says Chief of Staff Mark Fulbrook at a swiftly-called Downing Street all-staff meeting. https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1583097855564165120
Wonder IF Mark Fullbrook is ready for the US Department of Justice and FBI?
Somehow doubt it. But suspect they are ready for him.
BTW, what are the odds that Fullbrook will be the guru of the next Tory GE campaign, which is/was he apparently had with his soon-to-be exPM?
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
That wasn't just a function of Boris himself but of the undisciplined and complacent attitude of the party. After the Truss interlude, that will all change.
I’ve consistently said that Truss was a *better* PM than Johnson, simply because - although everything she touched was a disaster - she did NOT set out to mendaciously corrupt the very foundations of British governance, like Johnson did.
Boris is far, far more insidiously dangerous than Truss’s tactical pratfalls, which Hunt is already studiously cleaning up.
If the Tories conspire to re-instate Boris, they will go to hell.
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
If the membership are allowed a vote and he is in the last two then you wont be going back to the party.
I wonder if Sir Keir is regretting the fracking thing, which finally did for Liz. With her in place he was guaranteed a landslide, but with Boris... if he can summon up some of the old magic...
I firmly believe Boris would have them polling in the low 30s again almost overnight. 6 weeks ago that wouldn’t have been an achievement.
I’ve consistently said that Truss was a *better* PM than Johnson, simply because - although everything she touched was a disaster - she did set out to mendaciously corrupt the very foundations of British governance.
Boris is far, far more insidiously dangerous than Truss’s tactical pratfalls, which Hunt is already studiously cleaning up.
If the Tories conspire to re-instate Boris, they will go to hell.
When the **** has Boris ever done anything in the "national interest"?
When he beat Corbyn.
I genuinely think Corbyn, bad as he was, would have done the country a favour if he had won in 2019. We're talking relative scales of disaster.
Nope. Sure, the last six months wouldn't have been as bad, but the two years before that would have been much worse.
That's what I thought at the time despite a very low opinion of Johnson. But at least the Labour Party was still largely sensible and would probably have acted as restraint on the crazier Corbyn proposals. No such sense in the Conservative Party over the same period. Over the whole period I suspect Corbyn world have been a bit less bad and quite likely replaced in short order by someone better.
The Labour Party just spent the last two general elections to make Corbyn PM, so I'm not sure how you see them as "still largely sensible".
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
That wasn't just a function of Boris himself but of the undisciplined and complacent attitude of the party. After the Truss interlude, that will all change.
I’ve consistently said that Truss was a *better* PM than Johnson, simply because - although everything she touched was a disaster - she did set out to mendaciously corrupt the very foundations of British governance.
Boris is far, far more insidiously dangerous than Truss’s tactical pratfalls, which Hunt is already studiously cleaning up.
If the Tories conspire to re-instate Boris, they will go to hell.
Early signs are that the Conservative Party HAS NOT LEARNED A FUCKING THING from the Truss debacle.
"Hey, I'm a Tory MP - and I could make a great PM!"
No, you idiot, you couldn't. Sit down and STFU.
Rishi and Penny should jointly make it clear that any MPs who stand and don't get enough votes to go into the next round will not be asked to be a member of their new Cabinet, whichever wins. Making a lot of noise just to get a place round the Cabinet table will fail, spectacularly.
I think the party is irredeemably fucked.
I think so. I think it splits and we go into a GE in the Spring with 2 competing former Tory parties
Off thread - this board has been kind enough to indulge me over recent months in my rantings about the 11+, which my middle daughter is going through: we've just had the results, and although she just missed out for our local grammar school, she has passed the pass mark for our second closest (which is still just over a mile away and which we are within catchment for). So all being well she will be going there. She has worked uncomplainingly and astonishingly hard to achieve this (despite the handicap of dyslexia) and I am so bloody proud of her.
My daughters failed the 11+ and went to Ashton. One of them now has a PhD.
I'd have been quite happy with mine going to Ashton. Sadly it's so popular now you basically have to be within three quarters of a mile of it to get in! If you don't pass the 11+ you essentially have a choice of one school.
The return of Johnson? The Tories have gone full tonto. Totally fucking barking mad. It’s a collective breakdown. The party needs euthanising. It’s horrible to watch. Worse to experience as a helpless prole, sadly.
The Tories cannot face the reality that they cannot bring sound finances after taking us out of the single market. As Mr Nabavi pointed out, they promised we would be part of a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border. Their surprise Brexit victory drove them mad. High on their own supply. They cannot deliver the promised sunlit uplands because they have hobbled the economy.
Yadda yadda Covid, yadda yadda Ukraine. It’s the full impact of Brexit finally making itself felt. It wasn’t Osborne‘s instantaneous meltdown, it’s been slower, more subtle. Poisoning trade and governance. It has wrecked the Conservative Party. What a pyrrhic victory Brexit is proving to be.
The cognitive dissonance is staggering. There’ll be PhDs written on these times for decades to come.
“I’m very proud of the Prime Minister. She tried to provide choice for this country - the country’s just not ready for it yet” says Chief of Staff Mark Fulbrook at a swiftly-called Downing Street all-staff meeting. https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1583097855564165120
Wonder IF Mark Fullbrook is ready for the US Department of Justice and FBI?
Somehow doubt it. But suspect they are ready for him.
BTW, what are the odds that Fullbrook will be the guru of the next Tory GE campaign, which is/was he apparently had with his soon-to-be exPM?
Number 10 rehired David Canzini a couple of days ago.
I’ve consistently said that Truss was a *better* PM than Johnson, simply because - although everything she touched was a disaster - she did NOT set out to mendaciously corrupt the very foundations of British governance, like Johnson did.
Boris is far, far more insidiously dangerous than Truss’s tactical pratfalls, which Hunt is already studiously cleaning up.
If the Tories conspire to re-instate Boris, they will go to hell.
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
You need to have a word with @hyufd then because in his own little deluded world he thinks he is god's gift.
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
If the membership are allowed a vote and he is in the last two then you wont be going back to the party.
I’m sorry, they’ve said it will be over in a week. How can we possibly be thinking that “over in a week” and “members vote” can possibly go together???
Off thread - this board has been kind enough to indulge me over recent months in my rantings about the 11+, which my middle daughter is going through: we've just had the results, and although she just missed out for our local grammar school, she has passed the pass mark for our second closest (which is still just over a mile away and which we are within catchment for). So all being well she will be going there. She has worked uncomplainingly and astonishingly hard to achieve this (despite the handicap of dyslexia) and I am so bloody proud of her.
My daughters failed the 11+ and went to Ashton. One of them now has a PhD.
My brother failed his 11+ and was sent to the Secondary Modern. Fortunately it went Comprehensive shortly after, so he got into LSE and has just retired from a glittering career at the top of his field.
I consequently don't think that the 11+ is a very good predictor of academic ability.
Like opinion polls, job interviews or IQ tests, it's only a snapshot.
Re. the potential cable-cutting. It can be argued that one of the first acts Britain committed during World War One won the war (eventually). Within the first few weeks of the war, we cut all but one of Germany's marine cables (and we had access to that one).
This severely hampered German international communications throughout the war, and aided our signals intelligence. Then in 1917 it allowed the infamous Zimmerman Telegram to be intercepted, which helped bring the US into the war.
Cutting cables nowadays would not have the same effect; but it may prove absolutely awful for trade.
Good for Elon Musk though...
What state is OneWeb in at the moment?
Early operational testing - service has gaps until the last satellites are launched.
Interestingly, the missing satellites (stuck in Russia) will be launched by SpaceX. Yes, they are being launched by their direct competitor. Given the way the launch business usually works, finding a ride would have taken multiple years. Only SpaceX has the capability to do large launches at a couple of months notice.
Reasons for the SpaceX being helpful include
- having a competitor is actually good for them. Accusations of monopoly. - Launching a direct rivals service protects them against charges of being anti-competitive.. using the SpaceX price advantage only for Starlink could be viewed that way. This contract makes SpaceX legally fireproof on such charges. - The space industry have a history of helping rivals out. You never know when it is your turn - As a result of launch contract various mutual lawsuits have gone away.
On the other hand, they've been very uncompetitive with their rideshare program, and killed off the market leaders (who created the market in the first place).
Also, do we really want comms in the hands of Musk? For years I compared him with Brunel, positively. I was wrong. Musk is not the modern-day Brunel.
He is the modern-day Henry Ford. Except worse...
Merely offering a cheaper product isn’t anti-competitive. The marginal cost of F9 launches is said to be in the order of $15 million now. Maybe less.
As to a monopoly on LEO comms - he’s helped out OneWeb, allowing them to get in service something like on time.
It's not about offering the service cheaper - it's about the fact they stopped working with the concept originator Spaceflight. (Yes, that is a terrible name for a space company, as it makes searches nearly impossible...)
Can Boris actually stand? Is there not an investigation ongoing into his behaviour in Downing St?
Am investigation about his actions as an MP, which has not direct bearing on whether or not he’s PM….
Until they find against him and he has to stand down. Again.
And we have a contest for a new PM. Again.
Tory leadership elections. More addictive than crack.
Why would he have to stand down? This is Boris. Ignore honour and look at the purist legal position.
If Boris is found guilty by his peers and is suspended from the House for x days, how can he continue to perform his duties?
Nadine Dorries and anybody else backing Boris are even more bat-shit crazy than the PM who has just had to resign.
This is Boris. Being PM doesn’t require one to appear in the Commons. Indeed, look at it his way - if the Commons suspends you, they can’t then criticise you for not showing up.
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
If the membership are allowed a vote and he is in the last two then you wont be going back to the party.
I’m sorry, they’ve said it will be over in a week. How can we possibly be thinking that “over in a week” and “members vote” can possibly go together???
Shortlist of two by Monday evening. Online vote for 48 hours.
I wonder if Sir Keir is regretting the fracking thing, which finally did for Liz. With her in place he was guaranteed a landslide, but with Boris... if he can summon up some of the old magic...
I firmly believe Boris would have them polling in the low 30s again almost overnight. 6 weeks ago that wouldn’t have been an achievement.
He will actually have quite a lot of good new material to give some fresh soundbites and slogans that will play really well with the low information voters.
Boris with a chastened and disciplined party could be the Goldilocks scenario for the Tories.
LOL. Boris Johnson chastened and disciplined. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I said the party, not him. They'd be much less likely to undermine him having been through the experience of the last two months.
They didn't undermine him! He undermined himself by his recklessness, incompetence and utter lack of integrity. Can you imagine his smirking face as he returns to Downing Street? The message he will take from the whole episode will be that he is invincible and untouchable. If he comes back the Tory Party is over, finished. Go ahead and do it, I can't wait.
Like him or not, and I know many people don't, but he wasn't out of his depth as Prime Minister. His biggest problem was that the party was divided and many of them wanted him out because they were complacent or wanted to further their own ambitions.
He couldn't run a competent government. Is that not being out of his depth?
Yes and no. He could have run a competent government. He didn't want to.
Off thread - this board has been kind enough to indulge me over recent months in my rantings about the 11+, which my middle daughter is going through: we've just had the results, and although she just missed out for our local grammar school, she has passed the pass mark for our second closest (which is still just over a mile away and which we are within catchment for). So all being well she will be going there. She has worked uncomplainingly and astonishingly hard to achieve this (despite the handicap of dyslexia) and I am so bloody proud of her.
Many congrats sir. And a relief no doubt.
I'm slightly bemused that kids are still going through this. How many counties still have grammars?
Finger in the air - about a sixth. In the North West it's Trafford, Wirral and Lancashire.
The 11+ messaging boards are slightly frightening places. I've recently become aware of the phenomenon of 11+ tourists, who take ALL the exams in the country and then move to wherever their children pass.
Boris with a chastened and disciplined party could be the Goldilocks scenario for the Tories.
LOL. Boris Johnson chastened and disciplined. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I said the party, not him. They'd be much less likely to undermine him having been through the experience of the last two months.
They didn't undermine him! He undermined himself by his recklessness, incompetence and utter lack of integrity. Can you imagine his smirking face as he returns to Downing Street? The message he will take from the whole episode will be that he is invincible and untouchable. If he comes back the Tory Party is over, finished. Go ahead and do it, I can't wait.
Like him or not, and I know many people don't, but he wasn't out of his depth as Prime Minister. His biggest problem was that the party was divided and many of them wanted him out because they were complacent or wanted to further their own ambitions.
He couldn't run a competent government. Is that not being out of his depth?
He was out of his depth on every measure that you would expect a senior leader. He was a fucking liability. Everything was on the back of a fag packet. He would struggle to run the underwear department in Marks and Spencer, God knows why anyone would think him appropriate to run anything else. The only person possibly worse was Jeremy fucking Corbyn. Anyone who thinks that the answer to the question of fixing the mess made by Truss is "more Boris Johnson" needs putting in a straight jacket and marching off to a lunatic asylum somewhere in teh Kremlin.
When the **** has Boris ever done anything in the "national interest"?
When he beat Corbyn.
I genuinely think Corbyn, bad as he was, would have done the country a favour if he had won in 2019. We're talking relative scales of disaster.
Nope. Sure, the last six months wouldn't have been as bad, but the two years before that would have been much worse.
That's what I thought at the time despite a very low opinion of Johnson. But at least the Labour Party was still largely sensible and would probably have acted as restraint on the crazier Corbyn proposals. No such sense in the Conservative Party over the same period. Over the whole period I suspect Corbyn world have been a bit less bad and quite likely replaced in short order by someone better.
The Labour Party just spent the last two general elections to make Corbyn PM, so I'm not sure how you see them as "still largely sensible".
Slightly less batshit than the Tories over the same period. I wouldn't choose either Johnson, Truss or Corbyn. Starmer and Sunak are OK.
Off thread - this board has been kind enough to indulge me over recent months in my rantings about the 11+, which my middle daughter is going through: we've just had the results, and although she just missed out for our local grammar school, she has passed the pass mark for our second closest (which is still just over a mile away and which we are within catchment for). So all being well she will be going there. She has worked uncomplainingly and astonishingly hard to achieve this (despite the handicap of dyslexia) and I am so bloody proud of her.
Many congrats sir. And a relief no doubt.
I'm slightly bemused that kids are still going through this. How many counties still have grammars?
Finger in the air - about a sixth. In the North West it's Trafford, Wirral and Lancashire.
The 11+ messaging boards are slightly frightening places. I've recently become aware of the phenomenon of 11+ tourists, who take ALL the exams in the country and then move to wherever their children pass.
Round here there are any number of schools-in-shops offering 11+ coaching.
Boris back as PM and Hunt as Chancellor would be... "interesting". Would Hunt even accept? But if not him, who else is there who would a) accept the role, b) didn't resign from Johnson's last cabinet(s), and c) isn't barmy enough to spook the markets? As much as I'd like to press the reset button and pretend the last 3 months didn't happen, even with Boris back that option isn't on the table because he burned too many bridges.
Off thread - this board has been kind enough to indulge me over recent months in my rantings about the 11+, which my middle daughter is going through: we've just had the results, and although she just missed out for our local grammar school, she has passed the pass mark for our second closest (which is still just over a mile away and which we are within catchment for). So all being well she will be going there. She has worked uncomplainingly and astonishingly hard to achieve this (despite the handicap of dyslexia) and I am so bloody proud of her.
My daughters failed the 11+ and went to Ashton. One of them now has a PhD.
I'd have been quite happy with mine going to Ashton. Sadly it's so popular now you basically have to be within three quarters of a mile of it to get in! If you don't pass the 11+ you essentially have a choice of one school.
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
You need to have a word with @hyufd then because in his own little deluded world he thinks he is god's gift.
There are now two Tory Parties, more distinctly than since tariff reform in the welt 20th century. There’s the Boris one, which is on the red wall patriotic, somewhat socially conservative (in the British sense so no anti abortion rubbish and still pro gay marriage etc.); and then there’s the fiscally dry Sunak/Hunt party. If pushed the likes of the ERG would go with Boris and the more socially liberal with Sunak.
Only the Boris party has a chance of winning future elections alone. In reality they need to compromise and reforge their coalition though.
If Boris is serious then Penny and Rishi need to come as a unity combo.
No, they need to get about 130 guaranteed backers each and engineer it so they both make the final 2.
If he gets into the membership vote he will win.
But there won't be a membership vote.
As I understand the Conservative Party constitution at the moment, the MPs have to present the Party with a "choice" of candidates.
So the MPs set the rules for Round 1, but they have to give the Party Chairman at least two names unless there is only one nomination received (as with Howard).
However, if they give the Chairman two names and one subsequently withdraws (as with May/Leadsom in 2015) the remaining person is immediately declared elected unopposed.
So I agree if the final two were Mordaunt and Sunak, it's likely the one who was second among MPs would withdraw and there would be no membership vote (and that they'd agree in advance that would be the approach). But if Johnson (or someone like Braverman) made the cut, they'd be less likely to play ball.
Yes. What I mean is they will find a way to not have the members voting. One way or another they will avoid that. I think this is close to certain.
But how? Something that is close to certain, you should be able to envisage how it happens.
You can be confident of an outcome without being able to define the process.
But eg a pact between contenders that the MP winner is it?
How on earth Brady reached the idea that members should be consulted is another mystery.
There is simply no need for the *PM* to be elected (or consulted upon) by Tory members.
Brady joins Braverman et al in the pantheon of total shit.
Because his job is to arrange the election for the leadership of the Conservative Party and, for about the eleventy billionth time, those rules require him to present the membership with a choice of candidates, and he doesn't have the power to change them.
Anyone who thinks Boris is the answer needs to look at the polling and by-election results just before he was ousted, the laziness and disfunctionality in government and the corruption/public misconduct scandals. It'd be more of the same all the way to the election.
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
You need to have a word with @hyufd then because in his own little deluded world he thinks he is god's gift.
HYUFD is deranged. He was trying to argue the other day that Johnson was a "One Nation Conservative" which is one of the most stupid things I have ever heard. "One Ego" might be a better description.
When the **** has Boris ever done anything in the "national interest"?
When he beat Corbyn.
I genuinely think Corbyn, bad as he was, would have done the country a favour if he had won in 2019. We're talking relative scales of disaster.
Nope. Sure, the last six months wouldn't have been as bad, but the two years before that would have been much worse.
That's what I thought at the time despite a very low opinion of Johnson. But at least the Labour Party was still largely sensible and would probably have acted as restraint on the crazier Corbyn proposals. No such sense in the Conservative Party over the same period. Over the whole period I suspect Corbyn world have been a bit less bad and quite likely replaced in short order by someone better.
The Labour Party just spent the last two general elections to make Corbyn PM, so I'm not sure how you see them as "still largely sensible".
Confirmed: Johnson flying back for coronation. Told you.
The Mail, Express, Telegraph and Sun will go full Boris-euphoria if it happens, so that will be something for Sir Keir to contend with. And Boris is cunning enough to make his comeback sound like a glorious resurrection: I have learnt lessons... I return humble but energized and focussed... Onwards friends!
Comments
We'll soon find out anyway!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2022_Conservative_Party_leadership_election
Having been ejected from the office of PM in the past 12 months, is Boris even eligible to stand again?
"Yes....ow....."
"Is Boris even eligible to stand again?"
"Yes....ow....."
"Is Boris even eligible to stand again?"
"No....ow.....what was that for?"
"Just checking you got the message...."
*I appreciate this may only require about four puffer fish.
He hopes to be on a flight back to the UK this evening from the Dominican Republic
I won't be part of the Conservative Party any longer if we go back to that.
I consequently don't think that the 11+ is a very good predictor of academic ability.
View more insights: https://morningconsult.biz/3yizdow #LizTrussPM
I for one have a sick pit in my stomach. He's coming back. He will be in Kyiv every other week and when Putin falls he claims the victory, and wins GE24. The snouts remain at the trough.
Bloody hell!
Ta
"I was really popular with members this summer...."
As to a monopoly on LEO comms - he’s helped out OneWeb, allowing them to get in service something like on time.
Somehow doubt it. But suspect they are ready for him.
BTW, what are the odds that Fullbrook will be the guru of the next Tory GE campaign, which is/was he apparently had with his soon-to-be exPM?
I’ve consistently said that Truss was a *better* PM than Johnson, simply because - although everything she touched was a disaster - she did NOT set out to mendaciously corrupt the very foundations of British governance, like Johnson did.
Boris is far, far more insidiously dangerous than Truss’s tactical pratfalls, which Hunt is already studiously cleaning up.
If the Tories conspire to re-instate Boris, they will go to hell.
The party thinks with sentiment and wishful thinking now. Not its brain.
The fish rots from the head.
Nadine Dorries and anybody else backing Boris are even more bat-shit crazy than the PM who has just had to resign.
The Tories cannot face the reality that they cannot bring sound finances after taking us out of the single market. As Mr Nabavi pointed out, they promised we would be part of a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border. Their surprise Brexit victory drove them mad. High on their own supply. They cannot deliver the promised sunlit uplands because they have hobbled the economy.
Yadda yadda Covid, yadda yadda Ukraine. It’s the full impact of Brexit finally making itself felt. It wasn’t Osborne‘s instantaneous meltdown, it’s been slower, more subtle. Poisoning trade and governance. It has wrecked the Conservative Party. What a pyrrhic victory Brexit is proving to be.
The cognitive dissonance is staggering. There’ll be PhDs written on these times for decades to come.
BOTH undersea cables to Shetland have been damaged.
Once is happenstance, twice a coincidence.
The one running to the Scottish mainland went out of action today.
The one running to the Faroe Islands has been out of action since last week.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/20/shetland-loses-telephone-internet-services-subsea-cable-damaged
The 11+ messaging boards are slightly frightening places. I've recently become aware of the phenomenon of 11+ tourists, who take ALL the exams in the country and then move to wherever their children pass.
https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/more-uncertainty-ahead-as-liz-truss-resigns-as-british-prime-minister/584812
BOTH undersea cables to Shetland have been damaged.
Once is happenstance, twice a coincidence.
The one running to the Scottish mainland went out of action today.
The one running to the Faroe Islands has been out of action since last week.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/20/shetland-loses-telephone-internet-services-subsea-cable-damaged
Liz Truss lasted 4.1 Scaramuccis
https://twitter.com/Scaramucci/status/1583077679439695872
There is simply no need for the *PM* to be elected (or consulted upon) by Tory members.
Brady joins Braverman et al in the pantheon of total shit.
MPs must now be prepared to compromise. It is our duty to provide sensible, competent government at this critical moment for our country.
https://twitter.com/theresa_may/status/1583107967129628672
Still, could be worse, eh Boris? You could be in jail in Iran...
Only the Boris party has a chance of winning future elections alone. In reality they need to compromise and reforge their coalition though.
We will now have at least two years of Johnson II.
But eg a pact between contenders that the MP winner is it?
Thresholds to keep loose canons out?